UpWork is Blowin' Up, Unleash's 'Magic' Trick

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[00:00:54] Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts.

[00:01:04] Complete with breaking news, brash opinion, and loads of snark. Buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad & Cheese Podcast!

[00:01:13] Oh yeah, just two guys who love a rainy night. It's such a beautiful sight. Hey kids, you're listening to the Chad & Cheese Podcast.

[00:01:24] I'm your co-host, Joel Gollum Cheeseman. And I'm Chad. I was over-served. Sowash.

[00:01:31] And on this week's episode, Chad and Cheese are unleashed, upwork, crash, crushes, and who's ready for naked cruises?

[00:01:39] No.

[00:01:40] Let's do this.

[00:01:44] Okay, listener. How can you help your employees become more productive? I have answers.

[00:01:49] How about automating manual and repetitive tasks, giving meaning to data, then allowing that data to actually drive decisions?

[00:01:58] And how about matching people to your jobs quicker?

[00:02:02] Well wait, the Chad & Cheese has a new LLM?

[00:02:06] No, Cheeseman. I'm talking about Text Colonel.

[00:02:09] Ah, okay. That makes more sense. What I'm hearing is the groundbreaking concept of, wait for it, simplicity.

[00:02:19] Seriously though, seriously. Text Colonel cuts through the complexities like a tortilla chip through some hot nacho cheese.

[00:02:28] Oh my god. Really? Nacho references already. Anyways, Text Colonel brings efficiency and productivity to your operations.

[00:02:35] Text Colonel seamlessly unifies your tools and data to drive efficiencies and success.

[00:02:42] Text Colonel is creating new opportunities for your recruitment journey, kind of like adding guac to my barbacoa burrito.

[00:02:51] Oh my god. How about extracting meaningful insights from data? I mean, that's something.

[00:02:57] Swiftly matching people with jobs, automating repetitive tasks.

[00:03:02] Who knew such advanced concepts were even possible in the land of human resources?

[00:03:09] We did, Chad. We did. Dude, wrap it up. I'm a little hungry.

[00:03:15] Imagine that. Okay, listener, get ready to use today's tech to drive efficiencies and productivity.

[00:03:21] Visit textkernel.com. That's T-E-X-T-K-E-R-N-E-L dot com.

[00:03:29] Mmm, nachos.

[00:03:35] Eddie Rabbit, that's right. I love a rainy night. I love a rainy night.

[00:03:39] One hit wonders from the early 80s are always fun.

[00:03:43] Yeah, too, didn't he? I don't know. I can't remember anyway.

[00:03:45] So much success for Eddie Rabbit. It's been a long week, hasn't it?

[00:03:49] It has been a very, very long week. Especially for you.

[00:03:53] I mean, you were at the Kentucky Derby. That weekend was a full weekend.

[00:03:57] You were suited up. You were dutted up.

[00:03:59] I went over the top, didn't I? Yeah.

[00:04:01] You both looked awesome.

[00:04:03] It was the 150th running of the Derby.

[00:04:05] It's the oldest still-running sports event in the United States.

[00:04:10] So we thought we should do it and do it right.

[00:04:13] The first day is the Oaks. It's all the female horses.

[00:04:17] It's for females. I think breast cancer awareness.

[00:04:19] Oh, sweet! Everyone wears pink suits.

[00:04:21] So I was in a pink suit with little horses on it.

[00:04:25] And then I rocked the powder blue suit on the next day.

[00:04:28] Lots of cigars, lots of mint juleps.

[00:04:31] And then a small reprieve and then come to Vegas.

[00:04:34] So no rest for the wicked.

[00:04:36] You, on the other hand, had a very restful stint in Santa Fe.

[00:04:40] Tell me about that.

[00:04:41] Lucky enough, Julie and I have never been to Santa Fe before.

[00:04:44] But we've heard amazing things.

[00:04:45] We have a friend that our friends that actually live there.

[00:04:48] So we thought, well, the week before in Leash, we're on our way that way anyway.

[00:04:52] In Santa Fe, people, it's fucking amazing.

[00:04:55] The food there is amazing.

[00:04:57] I went to have some big nose cake cocktails downtown in downtown Santa Fe by the rail yard.

[00:05:03] We went to Bandelier. We did some hiking.

[00:05:05] And the indigenous people, I think the natives, yes, they had the Pueblo, like the canyon there in

[00:05:13] Bandelier and they had the old style ladders that you would climb up to go up the mountain.

[00:05:21] And Julie was scared shitless.

[00:05:24] And she went up all the way.

[00:05:26] So is this where the natives lived in like caves within the mountain?

[00:05:29] Yeah, when I lived in Arizona, there was a tribe that did something similar.

[00:05:33] I don't know which one it was, but yeah, it was very cool how the way that it has remained after all these years is really incredible for sure.

[00:05:41] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:05:42] Two opposing weekends, but we're brought together here in Vegas.

[00:05:46] We got a lot to cover and a lot of people to visit here at the show.

[00:05:49] Let's get to shout outs.

[00:05:51] OK, you got one that's pretty juicy.

[00:05:54] Yeah, I mean, right out of the gate, we found out this morning that our friend, Al Smith, the ISM CTO is retiring.

[00:06:02] Right. And this is this to me first and foremost.

[00:06:05] I mean, Al deserves some cocktails and a beach.

[00:06:08] The guy's been in the industry rub and a peri.

[00:06:11] Yeah, forever, man.

[00:06:12] What an amazing dude.

[00:06:14] And if you've ever listened to episodes without Smith, you know, he's incredibly smart and just damn personal.

[00:06:19] He automatically dumbs down the complexity, unlike most CTOs.

[00:06:24] So he's just kind of like that common dude who just has a big brain.

[00:06:28] And we're going to miss him.

[00:06:29] Although, although I reached out because, you know, we've shared some drinks before.

[00:06:34] I said, hey, look, now you're out from under the umbrella of ISM's.

[00:06:40] Let's do that again and let's talk about tech and let's talk about inside and outside of the industry because he's such a smart dude.

[00:06:47] So hopefully we'll have some bourbon and a cigar and have a fun tech chat with Al Smith.

[00:06:52] Yeah, Al is a super fan, if you will.

[00:06:55] I think he may have worn a chat and cheese t-shirt on stage at an ISM's event.

[00:07:01] At some point, he will remain in an advisory role during the transition.

[00:07:06] But by all accounts, he will be retiring as we all hope to do at some point.

[00:07:10] But the new CTO is Joseph Benjamin.

[00:07:12] He was a senior software engineer for IBM.

[00:07:15] Listen, back in the mid 1990s to the late 1990s, right?

[00:07:19] His first gig as a CTO was in 2001.

[00:07:24] Yeah, kids do the math over 20 years ago with Net Identity and was group VP and CTO at Oracle from 2017 to 2021.

[00:07:34] And he just left Behavox, which is an enterprise platform that unifies all types of data into single data lakes, allowing users to query the data, applying.

[00:07:44] Listen, I bet you've never heard this before.

[00:07:46] Machine learning and AI.

[00:07:48] Does that tell you anything?

[00:07:51] So I mean, this to me, I think it was pretty awesome.

[00:07:54] Al, incredibly smart, amazing dude.

[00:07:57] And it sounds like Joseph, hopefully he likes bourbon as well.

[00:08:01] So maybe all four of us can have a chat.

[00:08:04] There will be another ISM's event in the future.

[00:08:07] Also have to mention Eric Connors is the new chief product officer there at ISM's.

[00:08:14] He had previously worked at Ice Mortgage.

[00:08:17] Excuse me? Ice Mortgage.

[00:08:18] Excuse me.

[00:08:19] I know, right?

[00:08:20] But they're not the only company, Chad, this week that announced a new CEO.

[00:08:24] Yes.

[00:08:25] Can I interest you in a shot of Vonk in your biggest morning?

[00:08:30] I need a shot to make sure I don't get the Vonk.

[00:08:32] That's right.

[00:08:33] So Ritu Mahanka, hopefully I said that correctly, she is the new CEO of Holland based Vonk.

[00:08:38] The company says she's a seasoned HR tech veteran with executive roles at IBM and LinkedIn.

[00:08:45] So Vonk, we had wondered who would replace or who would come in after Arno.

[00:08:50] We have our answer.

[00:08:51] We have our answer.

[00:08:52] The thing that I thought was interesting is that Ritu has amazing industry experience.

[00:08:57] She was at Brasserie, it was acquired by IBM, she was in leadership at IBM, LinkedIn.

[00:09:04] She actually spent a little time with our friends over at Cindio.

[00:09:07] So really great experience and impressive career.

[00:09:11] There's one tell here though.

[00:09:13] Tell me.

[00:09:14] Every single part of that journey was focused in Amiya.

[00:09:19] Not the United States, Amiya.

[00:09:22] So the big question is and we've kept hearing from Vonk that they're still alive and kicking in the US.

[00:09:29] But this to me isn't proof of that.

[00:09:31] She is incredible.

[00:09:32] You can see that she's incredibly impressive and competent, but that is her expertise is Amiya, right?

[00:09:39] It's not the United States.

[00:09:41] So it's going to be interesting to see what they do to move if they do anything in the US or just continues to atrophy like it has over the past six months to a year.

[00:09:50] Yep. And I'll add that having another female CEO in the industry is a great thing.

[00:09:54] We spoke to Rebecca Carr at Smart Recruiters.

[00:09:58] So impressive women in our space is always a good thing.

[00:10:02] Yes, but real quick, I want to shout out to Smart Recruiters.

[00:10:04] Take that interim off her and let her swing that bat, right?

[00:10:09] She's the interim CEO right now.

[00:10:11] She has a great history with with Smart Recruiters.

[00:10:15] She left, came back.

[00:10:17] I really I want to see another female CEO, but we talked to her yesterday and I was blown away at just not just how smart she was, but how much history that she came out with.

[00:10:29] She was talking about what branch out, be known, branch out like holy shit.

[00:10:34] So anyway, she knows the space and loves it too.

[00:10:37] Oh, yeah. Which is exactly what we need and we've been talking about.

[00:10:41] Right. So make her the CEO.

[00:10:42] You're saying that not as a Smart Recruiters shareholder, just as a spectator.

[00:10:46] No, no. Just as a guy sitting back and watching this thing look like it's on a crash course.

[00:10:54] It needs leadership.

[00:10:56] And I mean, hell, I mean somebody who loves the industry that much has been in product pretty much in biz dev in some cases.

[00:11:04] I mean, she to me, she she sounds like the perfect person.

[00:11:08] Plus, she has ties to Jerome too.

[00:11:10] We don't know if she loves free booze and t-shirts, but she probably does.

[00:11:15] Tell us about that.

[00:11:16] So t-shirts from Aaron App.

[00:11:18] We've got the new Guns N' Roses design, Chad and Cheese Guns N' Roses design.

[00:11:23] Aaron App on the back.

[00:11:25] They actually did this this design just for the original, just for the t-shirt.

[00:11:30] Your kids may want to wear it.

[00:11:32] It's so original.

[00:11:33] It's so silky smooth. It's soft.

[00:11:35] Beer by Aspen Tech Labs.

[00:11:38] That's right kids.

[00:11:39] One winner a month will actually win craft beer delivered to their front door from Aspen Tech Labs and Chad and Cheese.

[00:11:47] Whiskey by Tex Colonel, Chad and Cheese.

[00:11:50] Send whiskey to one lucky listener a month.

[00:11:52] And if it's your birthday, you will get a chance to win possibly rum.

[00:12:00] Some high dollar rum from Plum.

[00:12:02] You've got to go to ChadCheese.com slash free and register.

[00:12:07] And in case I didn't mention, Chad, we're recording live from the Daxter booth here in Las Vegas.

[00:12:13] And if you're watching on YouTube, you can see.

[00:12:15] Speaking of Plum, we will pass on birthdays this week because we are recording live.

[00:12:21] Because they over served me last night and we can't do it anyway.

[00:12:24] On those last week.

[00:12:27] So speaking of live episodes, we're going to be live in a couple weeks out of Scotland.

[00:12:33] Tell us about that.

[00:12:34] So yeah, Scotland for true Glasgow and true Edinburgh.

[00:12:38] Do you know who is joining us in Scotland?

[00:12:40] Matt Alder.

[00:12:41] Yep.

[00:12:42] Daxter.

[00:12:43] Love it.

[00:12:44] Yeah, we've got so many great companies.

[00:12:47] PayPal, Lloyd's of London, Diageo, E&Y, AMS, Brooks Automation, the Scottish government.

[00:12:53] Yes, the government is going to be there.

[00:12:55] They heard we were coming.

[00:12:56] Run, Steven.

[00:12:57] They heard that we were coming so they had to be there.

[00:12:59] But sponsors, Daxter, you see them here, Ashby Solutions Driven, Gigged.ai, Willow and Poetry.

[00:13:07] Just go to true, that's T-R-U, Scotland.com.

[00:13:12] Register for both of them.

[00:13:14] Either in Glasgow, Edinburgh or do them both.

[00:13:18] Yeah, if you're in Scotland, please come on see us.

[00:13:20] Come on man.

[00:13:21] Come say hi.

[00:13:22] Come have a whiskey.

[00:13:23] We're going to be doing a lady dram of Scotch with Chad because he loves it so much.

[00:13:27] But if you're not going to be in Scotland, don't worry.

[00:13:29] We'll be publishing all the episodes from our thoughtful conversations with Scots.

[00:13:34] Except for all of those that we're going to have behind closed doors during the true events

[00:13:39] because what happens at true stays at true kids.

[00:13:42] Also in Vegas, that's what I've heard.

[00:13:44] Anyway.

[00:13:45] But what doesn't stay on the Chad and Cheese podcast does data goes out everywhere.

[00:13:51] It's only on YouTube guys.

[00:13:53] We just recorded the monthly jobs report, highlights, lowlights, predictions for next month

[00:13:59] with our friend Toby Dayton CEO at Link Up.

[00:14:03] If you haven't checked that out, go to youtube.com slash at Chad Cheese.

[00:14:07] It's about 20 minutes.

[00:14:08] You'll be smarter.

[00:14:09] I promise.

[00:14:17] All right.

[00:14:18] Layoffs.

[00:14:19] Good God.

[00:14:20] Big G.

[00:14:21] Google has laid off 200 folks from key teams like Flutter, Dart and Python before its

[00:14:27] IO Developer Conference, citing reorganization for efficiency.

[00:14:31] There it is again, Chad, the year of efficiency and aligning resources with priorities.

[00:14:36] The layoffs are part of quote unquote normal business with affected employees able to apply

[00:14:41] for other roles.

[00:14:43] Any concern here about Big G and the layoffs, Chad?

[00:14:46] I mean, it's only 200.

[00:14:47] Google is a very, very large fucking company.

[00:14:50] So 200 not that big of a deal.

[00:14:51] But here's what I got to say.

[00:14:52] A Google spokesperson confirmed the cuts and said quote, the impacted workers will be

[00:14:57] able to apply for other open roles at the company.

[00:15:02] End quote.

[00:15:03] Right?

[00:15:04] So thanks for working here.

[00:15:05] There's the door.

[00:15:06] And feel free to apply for jobs just like every other schmuck out there.

[00:15:10] That does not feel like a red carpet experience by any means.

[00:15:14] Right?

[00:15:15] So let's say you can't just 200.

[00:15:17] Then think about they're talking about the efficiency side.

[00:15:20] So if Google is looking to drive efficiency and cut costs, you place an already employed

[00:15:25] Google worker inside the company.

[00:15:27] It's faster.

[00:15:28] It's cheaper than trying to find somebody from the outside unless, unless this is

[00:15:33] a signal that we're getting ready to see more offshoring from Google.

[00:15:37] I'm not sure we will see but they have leadership positions being offshored.

[00:15:43] Let's see what happens.

[00:15:44] Interesting.

[00:15:45] You know, Google is really good at killing, euthanizing projects that aren't working.

[00:15:53] We've seen it in our own space a few times.

[00:15:56] They're really good about just killing stuff that doesn't work.

[00:15:59] So to me what really stood out to me was teams from Flutter, Dart and Python

[00:16:04] were laid off.

[00:16:05] So for whatever reason, I don't know those companies very well if at all.

[00:16:09] But I got to think that Google said these projects aren't working.

[00:16:12] We need to reshuffle employees, lay off ones that don't work anymore.

[00:16:15] And this was probably more of just business as usual at Google, focusing on the things

[00:16:20] that they need to do.

[00:16:21] Look, AI is an all hands on deck situation.

[00:16:24] They've been a monopoly in six plus businesses for the last 10, 20 years.

[00:16:31] They are actually seeing some competition.

[00:16:33] Good for them for focusing, creating efficiencies as everyone is doing now and giving

[00:16:39] them the best chance to compete against open AI and all the other AI platforms out there.

[00:16:43] It is kind of weird though, because remember when 20% time was very big?

[00:16:46] I mean you got Gmail out of 20% time.

[00:16:49] You got some pretty good products out of 20% time and then they took that away.

[00:16:53] And that to me was literally the antithesis of what Google was.

[00:16:59] Google was about creating new things.

[00:17:02] And the way to do that was to inspire your people to go do it.

[00:17:06] And you know the kinds of tools and resources that you have in your 20% time to be able to do that.

[00:17:13] And they've literally taken away.

[00:17:15] So Google has gone from a company of innovation to a company that feels like just an old stodgy shell of itself, unfortunately.

[00:17:25] I mean it's a money making machine.

[00:17:26] Don't get me fucking wrong.

[00:17:27] But if you want to be...

[00:17:29] One of the reasons why they got out leaped or out jumped or out paced by open AI

[00:17:35] is because they did not innovate.

[00:17:38] They were afraid to actually put the shit out there and open AI could not...

[00:17:42] I mean there was nothing for them to lose.

[00:17:43] So anyway, I see kind of like the worm turning on them.

[00:17:47] Not that they're going to die anytime soon because Google's going to be around forever.

[00:17:50] No, not at all.

[00:17:51] But they used to be the innovation leader.

[00:17:54] Yeah and you got to think why the environment or the culture of taking risks will support these sort of creative ideas are now passe.

[00:18:04] It's part of the culture at this point.

[00:18:05] And I guess it's just when companies get so big, they can't do that.

[00:18:08] It's also easier to start a company now.

[00:18:10] Twenty years ago starting a company was pretty hard.

[00:18:13] You had to have servers and build a website that cost you 100 grand.

[00:18:16] Like Google can't just say now we have resources for you that you can't get anywhere else.

[00:18:22] It's a lot easier for people to start companies which is overall good for the ecosystem

[00:18:26] but harder for Google to remain competitive on an innovation basis.

[00:18:31] And speaking of innovation Chad, let's get to Unleash.

[00:18:35] We're here at the Unleash conference live from the Daxter booth.

[00:18:38] Good time.

[00:18:39] What are some takeaways?

[00:18:40] What are some highlights from you so far?

[00:18:42] What are you seeing?

[00:18:43] I have to say that first and foremost we've got to talk about the elephant in the room

[00:18:49] and that was the 830 foot fucking fall slash jump that we took.

[00:18:53] I got to say that we had I think 11 people jump.

[00:18:57] Everybody did it.

[00:18:59] There were different levels of anxiety and fear from one to the next.

[00:19:04] You expect that but I got to say guys like Serge, that dude was scared.

[00:19:10] And he got up there and he fucking nailed it.

[00:19:14] So to me it was great to see guys like that.

[00:19:18] Even Matt, the CEO of OutHire, the three of us go up.

[00:19:23] The guy in the elevator asks who wants to go first?

[00:19:27] I'm like, I'll go first.

[00:19:28] Matt is like, no, I'm going first.

[00:19:29] He's like, I want to get this shit over with.

[00:19:31] And then at the end dude there was so much adrenaline you could see in him.

[00:19:36] It was a blast.

[00:19:37] It was a bonding event.

[00:19:39] It was really cool.

[00:19:41] We all went through something that no one else has gone through.

[00:19:43] We'll have that bond forever.

[00:19:47] I quote Tom Petty, the waiting is the hardest part.

[00:19:51] The anticipation, going up the elevator, the people that are there looking at you

[00:19:56] going to jumps, looking at you like you're a nutball.

[00:20:01] If you haven't seen the video, the highlights, go out to all of our socials,

[00:20:05] YouTube channel, all the highlights are there.

[00:20:08] I have a new pair of meta glasses so I actually recorded the jump from my point of view

[00:20:14] which was very cool.

[00:20:16] So it's a great highlight video.

[00:20:18] I would do it again, dare say, if another OutHire sponsor.

[00:20:22] Would Christine allow you to?

[00:20:24] I think so.

[00:20:26] I think getting through it once put her mind at ease and I could probably do it again.

[00:20:30] So we'll see.

[00:20:32] But I'm less fearful now of doing it now that I've done it.

[00:20:35] And we both wore our brown pants just like Deadpool tells you to.

[00:20:39] So that was smart.

[00:20:40] Dumbled up on the depends for me.

[00:20:42] So we also went to the ice party.

[00:20:45] Omar's ice castle was cold as fuck.

[00:20:48] We stayed two hours.

[00:20:51] He owes me a pinky toe.

[00:20:53] Were you wearing the Birkenstocks?

[00:20:55] Were you feeling a little chilly?

[00:20:57] I was not.

[00:20:58] But that was it.

[00:20:59] The entire thing was made of ice.

[00:21:01] And then last night, neon nights, too many drinks and gummies last night.

[00:21:07] But thanks to Plum, that was a blast.

[00:21:10] And if you haven't seen the videos, go to YouTube or TikTok or LinkedIn or what have you.

[00:21:16] That was gorgeous, man.

[00:21:18] When it got dark out.

[00:21:20] It's a great event.

[00:21:21] If you're looking for a unique event in Vegas to do, that's one of them.

[00:21:24] Personally for me, the record playing tostadas as the appetizer was my favorite.

[00:21:31] That was awesome.

[00:21:32] If you don't know what a tostada is, it's like a hardened tortilla shell.

[00:21:36] It doesn't fold like a taco.

[00:21:38] They put these things on a record player, had them spin around,

[00:21:41] and they put the toppings on as it's spinning around so it looks really nice and pretty.

[00:21:45] That was cool.

[00:21:46] That was really clever.

[00:21:47] It was very cool.

[00:21:48] There's a DJ down for them, too.

[00:21:50] Was it an escalator or kind of a walkie?

[00:21:53] You have the sushi that goes around and you pick.

[00:21:56] They had chicken and waffles and sort of unique food that was going around.

[00:22:00] Big ups to the Plum team.

[00:22:02] JobPixel was great.

[00:22:04] The ice cups.

[00:22:05] Yeah, because I didn't have to ask for a big rock.

[00:22:08] Because it was in a big rock.

[00:22:10] It was freaking awesome.

[00:22:12] Great people as well helped support that party, which was great.

[00:22:16] Then we did the collab work in and out burger after, which seems to be almost like a staple now.

[00:22:22] Summer Delaney has made in and out burger like a staple of almost like a Chad and Cheese party.

[00:22:28] And Chad, I'm here for it.

[00:22:30] I'm here for in and out burgers.

[00:22:32] Trust me.

[00:22:33] I will never miss an opportunity for free in and out burgers.

[00:22:37] So let's talk about the show.

[00:22:38] The parties have been amazing.

[00:22:40] What's been your favorite part about the show?

[00:22:42] Favorite part is always the people.

[00:22:44] Whether it's reconnecting with old friends, haven't seen in a while.

[00:22:48] There's been a few people that I haven't seen in a while at this conference.

[00:22:52] Obviously meeting new friends.

[00:22:54] I always love the startup alley, kiosk area.

[00:22:57] I love they put it all back in one place because they broke it up before.

[00:23:01] When I want to get in startup mode, I want to be in one place and I want to hit them all up.

[00:23:06] And it makes it so much easier.

[00:23:08] Yep.

[00:23:09] So there's been some interesting startups, some that we know pretty well,

[00:23:13] that have all commented favorably for that.

[00:23:16] But overall it's the people.

[00:23:18] And you know I don't get to go to many sessions anymore.

[00:23:21] We get stopped and talked to, which is the whole reason why we do this.

[00:23:25] But it's the people has been a standout for me.

[00:23:28] As well as a couple of takeaways for me.

[00:23:32] One is it feels optimistic, but conservatively so.

[00:23:36] Cautiously optimistic.

[00:23:38] Which means a lot for HR.

[00:23:40] Yeah, but even the vendors, even the parties have been a little bit downgraded.

[00:23:45] But bare naked ladies aren't playing at the palms if you remember parties past.

[00:23:51] So overall cautiously optimistic opinion.

[00:23:55] I do feel like however the startups, a lot of energy over there,

[00:23:58] a lot of excitement, a lot of interesting products that I'm sure we'll be talking about in the months and years to come.

[00:24:04] And my final takeaway, employ, AKA Jobbite, AKA JazzHR, AKA Lever, whoever else.

[00:24:13] Crispy cream donuts at the booth is genius.

[00:24:18] It is genius.

[00:24:19] Now if they can just figure out a way to have the hot crispy creams with the sign.

[00:24:24] That's a winning marketing strategy my friend.

[00:24:27] I don't even think you had lunch yesterday because you're eating crispy cream.

[00:24:31] So good.

[00:24:32] Four listeners, Kennedy, my stepdaughter actually runs the investor and startup programs here for Unleash.

[00:24:40] And so I'm a little biased, but I love the startup competition was great yesterday.

[00:24:45] I think you and I both picked the winner fairly easily.

[00:24:48] Manifest won the startup competition.

[00:24:51] That's usedmanifest.com.

[00:24:53] They're a cloud based platform which digitizes retirement transfers to maximize retirement outcomes, which is great.

[00:25:02] The thing is if you've ever left a company and you want to move your shit, it sucks.

[00:25:10] It's not fun, right?

[00:25:11] And this digitizes it all, makes it easy.

[00:25:14] I thought that was really cool.

[00:25:16] Then like I said over in Startup Alley, here was one thing that it almost felt like I was doing office hours.

[00:25:22] I was doing office hours for about two hours the other day because I was going in and going through the pitches with them.

[00:25:28] And I'm like, no, that's wrong.

[00:25:30] No, that's wrong.

[00:25:31] And this in the founders who were there listened intently and took notes, right?

[00:25:35] Mike, this is just advice, right?

[00:25:37] But I mean, it's still somewhat problematic that we have a lot of new startups coming in who don't understand what the real problems are and don't understand the real pain points for organizations.

[00:25:50] They're focused on what they think is the problem.

[00:25:53] And in most cases, it might be a problem, but it's not a big enough problem for a company to spend money.

[00:25:58] Yep.

[00:25:59] I think your quote to me and watching the winning presentation was this is boring as fuck, but it's a really cool business idea.

[00:26:06] A really cool company.

[00:26:07] I agreed with you.

[00:26:09] 401Ks aren't going to get anyone out of bed.

[00:26:11] It is a big issue for people to manage those for sure.

[00:26:15] Chad, are you a little warm in what you're wearing?

[00:26:17] I know that the people watching on YouTube probably noticed something interesting.

[00:26:21] Chad and I are donning Montreal Canadians jerseys.

[00:26:26] We mentioned last week in shout outs that our friends at hiring branch based in Montreal got us some jerseys.

[00:26:33] So you're rocking the white.

[00:26:36] Chad on the back, I'm rocking the red with cheese on the back.

[00:26:40] Very nice.

[00:26:41] We may have to go hold hands, walk down.

[00:26:43] Thanks to hiring branch.

[00:26:45] These are some legit jerseys.

[00:26:47] These aren't the iron on.

[00:26:49] If you're watching on YouTube, you can see these are like $400 jerseys.

[00:26:54] Yeah, no shit.

[00:26:56] And I'm not talking about $400 Canadian either.

[00:26:58] I'm talking about $400 US currency.

[00:27:00] These are not bullshit kids.

[00:27:03] Hiring branch is in a kiosk.

[00:27:05] They're going to do a 20 by 20, but they said the Chad and cheese jerseys cost so much.

[00:27:09] We got to keep it at the kiosk level.

[00:27:12] If you're interested in their services, fuck interviews I think is their motto.

[00:27:17] Fuck interviews.

[00:27:18] Go check out hiring branch.com.

[00:27:20] I don't know if they have a .ca or not.

[00:27:22] I haven't checked that out.

[00:27:23] I hope not.

[00:27:24] Anything else from Unleash that were takeaways?

[00:27:26] Yeah, no.

[00:27:27] One of the things again that I love about Unleash is that the stages in the expo hall,

[00:27:32] there's a lot of content that's happening.

[00:27:34] So that draws the TA practitioners, HR practitioners back here.

[00:27:39] And that's what vendors want.

[00:27:42] They want interaction.

[00:27:43] They want at least some type of FaceTime.

[00:27:45] So again, Unleash if you're listening, continue to do this, do more of it.

[00:27:50] I think from an ecosystem standpoint, it feels more complete.

[00:27:54] Yeah, vendors love it.

[00:27:57] Vendors love the engagement, the energy.

[00:27:59] I had said at Transform that I felt Transform was becoming a little bit more competitive

[00:28:04] to Unleash than HR Tech.

[00:28:06] And I think I agree with that now that I've been at Unleash.

[00:28:09] There seems to be Transform Unleash, a lot of similarities.

[00:28:13] How do they break out from that?

[00:28:15] And HR Tech continues to be kind of its own dinosaur or whale

[00:28:20] or whatever you want to call them.

[00:28:22] They're both big.

[00:28:23] Both big.

[00:28:26] All right.

[00:28:27] Thanks a lot, Unleash.

[00:28:28] Let's take a quick break, get a coffee, and we'll come back and talk about Upwork.

[00:28:33] Yes.

[00:28:34] Doesn't anyone notice this?

[00:28:35] I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

[00:28:39] Human resources is supposed to be about humans.

[00:28:42] I mean, it's right there in the name.

[00:28:44] But when your hiring team is more like an assembly line,

[00:28:47] glued to their computers, manually posting heaps of jobs everywhere they can think of,

[00:28:52] that human part feels nowhere to be found.

[00:28:55] This is a new era.

[00:28:56] Pando IQ takes the mind-numbing copypasting

[00:28:59] and nerve-wracking guesswork out of the job posting process.

[00:29:02] When you plan a hiring campaign with Pando IQ, you tell us who you need.

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[00:29:33] For more information on Pando IQ, go to pandologic.com.

[00:29:38] That's pandologic.com.

[00:29:42] All right, Chad, a little news from our friends at Upwork who are actually here at the conference.

[00:29:46] Yeah, they're right there.

[00:29:48] It's pretty rare that, yep, they are right there.

[00:29:50] It's a nice neon sign.

[00:29:51] Did you get that from the same company as did yours?

[00:29:54] I don't know.

[00:29:55] This is how we work.

[00:29:56] It looks good though. I like it.

[00:29:57] LinkedIn's not here.

[00:29:58] A lot of the big companies, they don't take the time.

[00:30:01] Indeed is here.

[00:30:02] Indeed is here, yes.

[00:30:03] I think they have a 10 by 10 or something.

[00:30:06] Yeah, it's not big, but it's...

[00:30:08] A lot of spoof, but they are here.

[00:30:09] Atlas has a big EOR groups.

[00:30:12] Anyway, well, the quarterly reports are coming in from companies.

[00:30:16] Okay.

[00:30:17] I actually believe Zip Recruiters is today after we record, so expect that to be a topic next week.

[00:30:24] Is that what the loud sucking sound was that I heard earlier this morning?

[00:30:26] That was out of California, out of Santa Monica.

[00:30:29] Upwork had a very nice quarterly earnings report.

[00:30:32] The San Francisco-based freelance platform surged by 18.7% to $190.9 million this quarter,

[00:30:41] driven by flat fee pricing adoption.

[00:30:44] Gross margin improved with net income up by 7.4%.

[00:30:48] Active clients rose by 5% to $872,000.

[00:30:53] The company introduced UMA AI, boosting client spending by 7%.

[00:30:58] Revenue guidance for Q2 is set between $190 and $195 million.

[00:31:04] Stock rose nearly 5% on the news.

[00:31:08] Killing it.

[00:31:09] Your thoughts on Upwork?

[00:31:10] This is product.

[00:31:11] This is all product driven.

[00:31:13] Somebody came into Upwork, and we need to dig into this.

[00:31:15] Somebody came into Upwork and they started to assess the products that they had available,

[00:31:20] and they said we can do better from a product standpoint.

[00:31:23] These aren't gaining the traction in the market that they should.

[00:31:26] So they started to move and to change things.

[00:31:30] And that's what we're seeing here.

[00:31:33] Upwork says its AI and machine learning category, gross sales volume,

[00:31:37] has grown 50% year over year.

[00:31:40] Making it once again the company's fastest growing category.

[00:31:43] And revenue ads and monetization products jumped by 93% year over year.

[00:31:49] Year over year, right?

[00:31:50] And that makes it Upwork's biggest stream.

[00:31:53] So to me, if you're a company and you're afraid to evolve and adapt, you're going to die.

[00:32:01] I mean we've seen it.

[00:32:02] These guys are adapting.

[00:32:04] This is proof that they're adapting.

[00:32:05] They're evolving.

[00:32:06] They see that this AI and machine learning piece,

[00:32:09] even putting UMA in there to make it easier for recruiters, for job seekers, everybody,

[00:32:15] is just they're trying to meet the market where it is, right?

[00:32:20] And I believe they're trying to skate to where the puck's going to be.

[00:32:24] We shall see.

[00:32:25] But these are great numbers and I'm glad to see that Upwork is really embracing change.

[00:32:32] Yeah. You know, you and I have talked about Upwork as a mega trend, right?

[00:32:36] People contracting, why hire these folks?

[00:32:38] It's a lot cheaper.

[00:32:39] I have a global universe to choose from and candidates.

[00:32:44] I became a little bearish on Upwork when ChatGPT came out and when these AI tools came out.

[00:32:51] You don't need a copywriter if you can just plug something into ChatGPT.

[00:32:55] So I thought that would really affect the knowledge worker, which is what Upwork is.

[00:32:59] It's knowledge workers.

[00:33:01] Instead, AI is taking the business to a whole other level.

[00:33:08] Increasing like 7% profits on spending by clients is huge.

[00:33:16] I don't know how they're doing that, but that's pretty awesome.

[00:33:20] They're getting more companies use the service as opposed to less.

[00:33:24] Yeah, sticky too.

[00:33:25] So I'm a little bit gobsmacked as the British might say as to what is going on in Upwork.

[00:33:31] They turn this AI threat on its head and they are benefiting from it.

[00:33:36] My guess is the best workers on the platform are becoming super developers and super marketers

[00:33:45] because those people have learned AI and how to get the most productivity.

[00:33:49] They're probably flipping more jobs.

[00:33:51] Those people are more expensive than say a low level Ukrainian 20 year old just getting into the business.

[00:33:58] So it feels like the best workers at Upwork are getting more jobs,

[00:34:02] they're completing tasks quicker and thus charging more and getting more money into the system.

[00:34:07] So I'm super impressed.

[00:34:08] We always thought this was a mega trend.

[00:34:10] AI is taking it to a whole different place and it's exciting to watch for sure.

[00:34:15] It's interesting because we were just at Paradox in Scottsdale a couple of weeks ago

[00:34:20] and their focus was obviously the conversational ATS, the conversational AI just all the way around.

[00:34:27] Upwork, I mean they're leaning heavily into that with this new large language model,

[00:34:31] this UMA model with conversational AI and matching.

[00:34:35] So I really believe like you said this could have really struck a death blow to Upwork

[00:34:43] but they're like no we're going to innovate with this, we're going to move faster

[00:34:47] and if we move faster and smarter, we can get more people into jobs faster.

[00:34:51] If we get more people into jobs faster then companies are going to fucking love us even more

[00:34:55] and more people are going to come and more people are going to continue to use.

[00:34:59] So product though man, I mean again they're innovating and they're changing product

[00:35:04] and I think that to me is the key to understand how you get to hyper growth again hopefully.

[00:35:11] Yeah, yeah.

[00:35:12] Turns out that...

[00:35:16] Never mind, I lost my train of thought.

[00:35:18] Let's take a quick break.

[00:35:19] I need another cup of coffee obviously and we'll talk about good lord, naked cruises.

[00:35:24] Emotional damage!

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[00:36:18] What's up everybody? We are live from the Daxter booth at the Unleashed conference in Las Vegas.

[00:36:23] Well we're not talking about naked Ted Cruz, are we?

[00:36:26] Not Ted Cruz, no actual boats.

[00:36:28] You said naked cruises and I was like, holy shit, I don't need that.

[00:36:31] It's now dubbed the Big Nude Boat Cruise, departing from Florida, imagine that, starting next year.

[00:36:38] They offer passengers a clothing optional experience including at the buffet.

[00:36:44] That's right, naked buffets as well.

[00:36:46] The 11 day trip on the Norwegian Pearl includes stops at private islands and Caribbean destinations.

[00:36:53] Prices range from $2,000 for an inside cabin to over $33,000 for a top room.

[00:36:59] Guests are advised to use towels in common areas and pack a swimsuit for non-clothing optional excursions.

[00:37:06] Chad, this says Euro Chad written all over it if you ask me. What are your thoughts?

[00:37:11] You would be wrong. I've already opted out of the fully clothed versions of cruises,

[00:37:17] especially since COVID turned ships into floating coffins.

[00:37:21] So imagining a bunch of nude sweaty fat dudes at a buffet.

[00:37:27] Why do you look at me and say fat dudes on that one?

[00:37:29] Was I looking at you? My bad. That was bad.

[00:37:33] Anyway, that even adds to the floating Petri dish kind of idea.

[00:37:38] Fat and sweaty. Not to mention, can you imagine when we talk about talent,

[00:37:42] can you imagine trying to get somebody to, yes, to try to get some young kids to come clean up after your sweaty ass was just, I mean...

[00:37:53] Recruiting for this has got to be a trip. This is a reality show in the making. Recruiting for naked cruises.

[00:37:59] They don't show up, you know, they just show up one day and you're like, I'm on what cruise? Which one? You're on the nude boat.

[00:38:05] The buffet is interesting. They should sell it as a diet cruise because watching naked people at the buffet is going to turn you off food for the entire week for sure.

[00:38:15] Unless that's your case.

[00:38:16] By the way Chad, I don't know if you know this, July 14th is National Nude Day.

[00:38:21] So if you and Julie in the privacy of your own home, you don't want to get nuts on July 14th. It's coming soon.

[00:38:27] We already do that. I mean, in our own home. But we will be in July. We'll be in Europe and they've got nude and topless beaches all over the place.

[00:38:37] So we might just actually... I will go topless.

[00:38:40] Chad, did you hear about the flasher who's thinking about retiring?

[00:38:43] Oh no.

[00:38:44] He decided to stick it out for one more year.

[00:38:47] Live from the Daxter booth at Unleash, Chad and Cheese. We out!

[00:38:51] Wow. Look at you. You made it through an entire episode of the Chad and Cheese podcast. Or maybe you cheated and fast forwarded to the end.

[00:39:01] Either way, there's no doubt you wish you had that time back.

[00:39:05] Valuable time you could have used to buy a nutritious meal at Taco Bell.

[00:39:10] Enjoy a pour of your favorite whiskey. Or just watch big booty Latinas and bug fights on TikTok.

[00:39:18] No, you hung out with these two chuggle heads instead.

[00:39:23] Now go take a shower and wash off all the guilt. But save some soap because you'll be back.

[00:39:30] Like an awful train wreck, you can't look away.

[00:39:36] And like Chad's favorite Western, you can't quit them either. We out!

[00:39:43] How much do you understand the future of finance?

[00:39:47] I'm Jim Roos, a top 10 banking influencer and host of the podcast Banking Transform,

[00:39:53] where we dive deeply into the rapidly evolving world of banking and financial technology.

[00:39:58] Join me as I interview industry experts, thought leaders and innovators

[00:40:04] as they unravel the latest banking trends, disruptions and game changing technologies reshaping the world of finance.

[00:40:13] Redefine your understanding of the banking ecosystem.

[00:40:17] Subscribe now to Banking Transform, available wherever you get your podcasts and now available on YouTube.