The Evolution of the Workforce with Janine Yancey

[00:00:00] Yo Chad, what if I told you there's a platform that could completely revolutionize your hiring

[00:00:07] strategy in a matter of hours?

[00:00:10] Yeah, I'd call it bullshit.

[00:00:12] Well, it's not bullshit with AI for Jobs powered by our friends at This Way Global.

[00:00:18] Okay, I'm listening.

[00:00:19] Well, everyone else is fishing in the same old talent pools.

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[00:00:36] So wait a minute.

[00:00:37] All of the hard on-the-ground work is already done.

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[00:00:46] Wow!

[00:00:47] It's like having a candidate sourcing magic wand.

[00:00:50] Dude, if you had a magic wand, you would have Mexican pizzas all day.

[00:00:56] Stop distracting me, So Wash.

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[00:01:18] Let's wrap this shit up.

[00:01:19] I'm hungry.

[00:01:20] Listen up, kids.

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[00:01:37] That is ThisWayGlobal.com.

[00:01:40] We out.

[00:01:50] Oh, yeah.

[00:01:57] What's up, everybody?

[00:02:09] We are at Transform in Las Vegas Day 2.

[00:02:12] This is Steve Wynn's favorite podcast, AKA The Chad and Cheese Podcast.

[00:02:18] I'm your co-host Joel Cheeseman.

[00:02:20] Join us always, the carrot to my top, Chad So Wash is in the house as we welcome Janine Yancey.

[00:02:27] Janine!

[00:02:28] No.

[00:02:29] CEO and founder of M Train, Cold Train Night Train.

[00:02:33] No, just M Train.

[00:02:34] That is the best.

[00:02:35] Janine, welcome.

[00:02:36] Welcome to the podcast.

[00:02:38] Thank you.

[00:02:39] Glad to be here.

[00:02:40] Excellent.

[00:02:41] Our listeners probably don't know who you or the company are.

[00:02:44] Give them the elevator pitch about you and what you do.

[00:02:47] Hi, so Janine Yancey.

[00:02:49] I started my career as an employment lawyer doing a lot of litigation and investigations

[00:02:55] and resolving a lot of conflict in organizations.

[00:02:58] And that gave me the motivation to start M Train because I was kind of like the workplace

[00:03:03] therapist.

[00:03:04] I'd see patterns of behavior over and over and over again until the managers, hey,

[00:03:10] this is what's going to happen.

[00:03:11] And they were always surprised.

[00:03:13] I had the motivation to get the hell out of my job.

[00:03:16] To get the hell out of my job.

[00:03:18] That's what I heard.

[00:03:19] No, no, no, no.

[00:03:20] Get the hell out of my job.

[00:03:21] No, to resolve conflict.

[00:03:22] I call it navigating around the rocks rather than going right into the rocks.

[00:03:27] Okay.

[00:03:28] So M Train specifically does what to support that vision?

[00:03:31] So M Train is online learning in ethics, respect and inclusion.

[00:03:37] So it covers a lot of your compliance topics as well as DEI topics as well as really

[00:03:42] kind of talent topics.

[00:03:44] And what we're doing, I think that's unique is we're approaching this from a skills

[00:03:50] based perspective.

[00:03:51] So all of our learning is developing skills and we're measuring skills.

[00:03:56] So we're embedding our learning experience with probing questions.

[00:04:01] The type of questions you'd get like in an annual climate survey.

[00:04:04] Okay.

[00:04:05] So think about like, you know, annual climate survey embedded into a

[00:04:08] experience and we'll show a scene of what good looks like and we'll ask them, hey,

[00:04:13] what does your manager do?

[00:04:14] Yep.

[00:04:15] This, that, the other thing.

[00:04:16] And we're getting, you know, employee sentiment at scale that we can slice and dice to

[00:04:21] see where in the organization you've got some vulnerabilities, where conflict is

[00:04:27] brewing.

[00:04:28] And then plug the holes with education.

[00:04:29] Is that what I'm hearing?

[00:04:30] Education and management actions.

[00:04:32] So like your HR business partner team is usually way understaffed, especially

[00:04:37] in the last days after the last year of layoffs.

[00:04:39] So they're exhausted.

[00:04:41] So instead of boiling the ocean, we're giving them visibility into which teams they

[00:04:46] need to go and talk to.

[00:04:47] Okay.

[00:04:48] And you were founded when?

[00:04:49] So 2006 is when I stopped my day job.

[00:04:53] She's been at this for a while.

[00:04:54] So I've been out this for a long time, you know, 500 plus clients ranging in size

[00:04:59] from Chevron, Ikea, Cisco, Workday down to a lot of the organizations we see here

[00:05:06] at Transform.

[00:05:07] I love this because this is the, the story you don't hear about.

[00:05:10] This isn't the startup that's raised a ton of money as a, you know, whatever

[00:05:14] founder.

[00:05:15] I mean, you guys have organically put in the work.

[00:05:17] Yes.

[00:05:18] Put in the time.

[00:05:19] How big is the organization?

[00:05:20] Well, there was about 50 of us.

[00:05:21] So we're small.

[00:05:22] But what's interesting is we're all practitioners.

[00:05:26] So clients dig us because we've been in their shoes.

[00:05:31] We know how to solve their problems.

[00:05:33] Speak their language.

[00:05:34] We speak their language and we know how to solve their problems.

[00:05:35] Well, and you know what the real problems are because you actually walked in their shoes

[00:05:40] where a lot of other vendors are coming in from outside saying they think they know what the

[00:05:44] problem is.

[00:05:45] And they really have no clue.

[00:05:46] Exactly right.

[00:05:47] And Chad, they're, they're trying to solve for less important things.

[00:05:51] So there are companies, you know, here that are spending most of their investment

[00:05:57] on how to make this as cheap and easy as possible, which is great.

[00:06:01] But they're actually not solving the big problems and there's so much increasing regulation like

[00:06:09] our largest clients.

[00:06:11] Their people are spending eight to 10 hours a year in compliance training, right?

[00:06:17] Yeah.

[00:06:18] If you just quantify that expense of their hourly rate at scale, that's millions of

[00:06:24] dollars to get nothing but a completion report.

[00:06:27] Like that's stupid.

[00:06:28] So to use this program as a talent strategy, as a listening strategy and you're actually

[00:06:35] getting operational benefits is what makes the CFOs happy.

[00:06:39] There's a lot of competition out there, upscaling, learning, some big players.

[00:06:45] How do you guys obviously a nimbler, cheaper?

[00:06:49] Like what's the differentiator for you guys when you're at a sales call with

[00:06:54] so many big competitors with deep pockets?

[00:06:56] We're in the market of really the online compliance niche.

[00:07:00] So there's actually just a handful of companies that we compete against.

[00:07:06] So you don't consider LinkedIn learning or others like that competitors or do you?

[00:07:11] No, so we partner LinkedIn as a client.

[00:07:13] We partner with LinkedIn Learning.

[00:07:15] Udemy is a client.

[00:07:16] We partner with Udemy.

[00:07:17] Udemy businesses right here.

[00:07:18] So you provide content to them?

[00:07:20] What does partnership mean?

[00:07:21] Oh well, so first of all they're clients of us.

[00:07:23] So they roll out our programs.

[00:07:26] So their whole workforce, LinkedIn Learning, we're going to be supplying a M-Train course

[00:07:32] within LinkedIn Learning this year.

[00:07:35] How many courses do you have in M-Train?

[00:07:37] Oh, M-Train.

[00:07:38] We probably have about 100 or so.

[00:07:40] Okay.

[00:07:41] So one of many that you could perspective will be rolling out into LinkedIn.

[00:07:45] Because I think this is a perspective partnership and revenue generator from a distribution

[00:07:50] standpoint through a platform like LinkedIn.

[00:07:53] Yes.

[00:07:54] Highly used platform.

[00:07:55] Yes.

[00:07:56] They need content.

[00:07:57] They want content.

[00:07:58] Well, currently they do not do compliance.

[00:08:00] So that has been a strategic product decision they made.

[00:08:04] Yeah.

[00:08:05] I talked to their head of product last year.

[00:08:07] Which is why you're perfect for this connection because they don't have to do it.

[00:08:10] Well, at some point they will do it.

[00:08:12] The answer from their head of product was it's not a question of if, it's just when.

[00:08:16] And who are they going to acquire to make sure that they have...

[00:08:19] I was going to say, it sounds like they can just write a check and be done with it.

[00:08:22] Yeah.

[00:08:23] I mean that makes it a lot easier.

[00:08:24] That's a big smile on Jeanine's face right there.

[00:08:25] I'm not saying anything.

[00:08:26] Quick question around skills.

[00:08:28] So how do you actually analyze the jobs to understand what skills are in those jobs

[00:08:35] in the first place?

[00:08:36] We have created a skills matrix for every employee in the workforce to be their best

[00:08:42] selves, right?

[00:08:43] So some of those skills are specific to people leaders.

[00:08:47] Okay.

[00:08:48] So for example, going back to my kind of prior life as a lawyer.

[00:08:54] Yeah.

[00:08:55] Most of the harassment and discrimination cases stem from managers who are not skilled at

[00:09:01] managing their power.

[00:09:02] So meaning they will say something, they will do something and they can't think through

[00:09:07] how that's going to show up to a direct report.

[00:09:10] And then they're just always shocked when they get this bias claim.

[00:09:13] Well, they haven't been trained to manage so they suck at managing.

[00:09:17] Management training is managing your power.

[00:09:19] That's one of the courses we're going to be doing for LinkedIn.

[00:09:22] Gotcha.

[00:09:23] Yeah.

[00:09:24] Cisco is also a client.

[00:09:25] They want us to develop for all of their people leaders, the inclusive manager series

[00:09:30] this year because there's just some tried and true skills you need to build to get

[00:09:35] better outcomes.

[00:09:36] Yeah.

[00:09:37] Yeah.

[00:09:38] Like diplomacy.

[00:09:39] Diplomacy means different things to different people.

[00:09:41] That's the hard part.

[00:09:42] Most things mean different things to different people, right?

[00:09:45] We talked a little before we pushed record about comparing a team, a sports team in this

[00:09:50] case basketball to corporate where chemistry isn't there so the results don't happen.

[00:09:56] Tell that story to our listeners and how your product sort of manages or helps get

[00:10:00] chemistry people that actually work together in unison because I think that's a little

[00:10:04] bit of a secret sauce if you can do that in an organization.

[00:10:08] We have all these data analytics tools out on the market and none of them measure

[00:10:13] chemistry, the social dynamics within the organization and within teams.

[00:10:18] When you think about the relevance of that, that's when I gave the example of a basketball

[00:10:23] team.

[00:10:24] So I'm from Sacramento.

[00:10:25] Kings are our basketball team.

[00:10:27] They had years and years of losing, losing, losing despite investing in top players, top

[00:10:33] talent.

[00:10:34] But if the talent doesn't play well together, you're not going to get the win.

[00:10:40] So you need a tool and you need a strategy to one, make visible and measure the chemistry

[00:10:45] that's going on in the organization.

[00:10:48] Which teams have people that are spinning out because it's nails on a chalkboard for

[00:10:52] what their teammates saying?

[00:10:54] How do we figure that out?

[00:10:56] And that's what we're doing here at M-Train.

[00:10:57] So we're doing it coming in.

[00:10:59] The beachhead is always, yes, it's a compliance course.

[00:11:02] Our preventing harassment course is our flagship course but we're using it really as a talent

[00:11:07] strategy.

[00:11:08] How do we play well together?

[00:11:11] Okay, listener.

[00:11:14] How can you help your employees become more productive?

[00:11:18] I have answers.

[00:11:19] How about automating manual and repetitive tasks, giving meaning to data, then allowing

[00:11:25] that data to actually drive decisions?

[00:11:28] And how about matching people to your jobs quicker?

[00:11:31] Well, wait.

[00:11:33] The Chad and Cheese has a new LLM?

[00:11:36] No, cheese man.

[00:11:37] I'm talking about Tex Colonel.

[00:11:39] Okay, that makes more sense.

[00:11:42] What I'm hearing is the groundbreaking concept of, wait for it, simplicity.

[00:11:48] Seriously though, seriously.

[00:11:51] Tex Colonel cuts through the complexities like a tortilla chip through some hot nacho cheese.

[00:11:57] Oh my God.

[00:11:58] Really?

[00:11:59] Nacho references already.

[00:12:00] Anyways, Tex Colonel brings efficiency and productivity to your operations.

[00:12:04] Tex Colonel seamlessly unifies your tools and data to drive efficiencies and success.

[00:12:12] Tex Colonel is creating new opportunities for your recruitment journey, kind of like adding

[00:12:18] guac to my barbacoa burrito.

[00:12:20] Oh my God.

[00:12:21] How about extracting meaningful insights from data?

[00:12:24] I mean, that's something.

[00:12:26] Swiftly matching people with jobs, automating repetitive tasks.

[00:12:31] Who knew such advanced concepts were even possible in the land of human resources?

[00:12:39] We did Chad.

[00:12:40] We did.

[00:12:41] Dude, wrap it up.

[00:12:42] I'm a little hungry.

[00:12:44] Imagine that.

[00:12:45] Okay, listener, get ready to use today's tech to drive efficiencies and productivity.

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[00:12:59] Nachos.

[00:13:04] But chemistry, you hire who you hire and that's what you get in, right?

[00:13:09] And if they don't know what the chemistry is before they actually land on the team, that's

[00:13:13] going to be hard, right?

[00:13:14] So from a management standpoint, you can try to manage that as a team, but if you're

[00:13:20] hiring individuals who just don't have the right chemistry together, that's going to

[00:13:25] be hard.

[00:13:26] And that's a great job because, yes, and you can create your own true north values and

[00:13:34] skills within a team, within an organization.

[00:13:38] And so one of our skills in our matrix is curiosity, starting with curiosity.

[00:13:45] If you've got two people, they don't mix.

[00:13:47] It's like, all right, how do we start our interactions with curiosity?

[00:13:52] How can we inspire folks to wonder, hey, what makes that other person tick?

[00:13:58] And if that's embedded in just how we do business, it's kind of our operating guide.

[00:14:05] Everyone starts tracking to the same set of really skills.

[00:14:10] That's how I think about it.

[00:14:11] I mean, you could say chemistry is a bias because people interview and like, oh, well

[00:14:16] there's chemistry because we're alike.

[00:14:18] We're the same kind of person.

[00:14:20] It can be a real land mine that organizations need to be aware of.

[00:14:26] Well, we've done that research.

[00:14:27] I mean, a lot of places have done that research and it is a bias.

[00:14:32] You are launching a new product here at the conference.

[00:14:35] Talk about that.

[00:14:36] Yes.

[00:14:37] So we're launching our second iteration of our people analytics tools after getting

[00:14:42] a year's worth of client feedback on how to make it more useful, more actionable.

[00:14:49] And so these are 150 million employee responses about the interactions on their team, how their

[00:14:55] managers perform, how their coworkers perform, how their leaders perform and show up.

[00:15:00] We're also giving a risk heat map.

[00:15:03] And we're starting to integrate with case management systems so that employee relations

[00:15:07] teams see proactively before there's an acclaim where there's pockets of conflict.

[00:15:14] Help me visualize that.

[00:15:15] A heat map for what?

[00:15:18] So you can slice and dice by business unit, by geography, by some of the more senior leaders

[00:15:24] because we don't go down to the individual.

[00:15:27] You can see where people are saying like the respect score is low.

[00:15:33] And so if you unravel the respect score, we've got four skills.

[00:15:38] It's managing our own biases.

[00:15:39] That's at the individual level.

[00:15:41] It's in-group out-group dynamics at the team level.

[00:15:45] And then there's a lot of harassment cases stem from in-group out-group dynamics.

[00:15:50] It's managing your power at the people leader level.

[00:15:53] And then it's ensuring equity at the organizational level.

[00:15:56] So we're asking questions at each of those four points and fleshing out how people

[00:16:03] are seeing and experiencing those dynamics.

[00:16:07] And so if we see a business unit where the whole team is rating that manager as

[00:16:13] they suck at managing power, okay.

[00:16:16] Defcon too.

[00:16:17] Yeah, exactly.

[00:16:18] Let's send an HR business partner to that manager.

[00:16:21] Interesting.

[00:16:22] So for example, we have American Eagle as one of our clients, right?

[00:16:25] I only wear American Eagle by the way.

[00:16:27] My kids do.

[00:16:29] So we can slice and dice by district because that's how they're organized.

[00:16:35] They're DMs, right?

[00:16:36] We were looking over their analytics, which they actually presented to their board, the

[00:16:40] audit committee of their board.

[00:16:41] And we can see that while they were generally pretty healthy, district 52 was under 50% in

[00:16:48] their benchmark score.

[00:16:49] And I said, oh, so who's the DM at 52?

[00:16:52] And they all kind of chuckled.

[00:16:53] They're like, oh, yeah, we get it.

[00:16:56] That guy.

[00:16:57] Chad.

[00:16:58] That guy.

[00:16:59] Todd.

[00:17:00] I suspect if you talk to all of our HR friends in this conference, they anecdotally know

[00:17:05] what's going on.

[00:17:06] Their gut tells them, right?

[00:17:08] Yeah.

[00:17:09] They don't have anything to help them have those conversations either with executives or frankly

[00:17:14] the managers because they don't have enough street cred.

[00:17:18] You as a mature company has seen the rise of AI before there was AI.

[00:17:25] So you've seen it as it was born, particularly with the data that you're using, I assume.

[00:17:31] What's your perspective on AI?

[00:17:32] What it's meant to your business and what you think it means ultimately for the world

[00:17:37] of work?

[00:17:38] I think it's going to allow us to do more with less work, less headcount.

[00:17:44] Less people?

[00:17:45] Yep.

[00:17:46] Less headcount.

[00:17:47] She said it.

[00:17:48] It is.

[00:17:49] So we're a small ore, but we're already doing more with less.

[00:17:53] We don't need a QA engineer because we've got Cypress which is AI.

[00:17:57] You've got Jasper which is AI for marketing blogs.

[00:18:00] It is what it is.

[00:18:01] It is what it is.

[00:18:02] I'm speaking as an employer right now, not a CEO, not as an HR practitioner.

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[00:19:00] I think we need to have confidence with every paradigm shift in our society.

[00:19:09] Doors closed and new doors open.

[00:19:11] And I do think that my just in the last, let's just even call it the last 10 years.

[00:19:17] As we see Gen Z increasingly coming into the organization, they're changing the world

[00:19:23] of work in really good ways.

[00:19:25] I mean there's some challenges too.

[00:19:27] Things that us Gen Xers would never dream of having the guts to ask for.

[00:19:32] They're just blithely demanding it.

[00:19:34] It's like, okay, all right.

[00:19:36] So I think overall we're trending in the right direction.

[00:19:40] I think the next probably five years are going to be rocky but we'll ultimately get

[00:19:45] to a good path.

[00:19:47] So rocky how?

[00:19:49] Just because there's a different thought process for the Gen Zs coming in versus

[00:19:55] what were you sue?

[00:19:57] I think rocky because Gen Zs were generally raised by us Gen Xers.

[00:20:04] And us Gen Xers didn't have parents that were very present.

[00:20:09] So we overcompensated with our kids.

[00:20:12] And we're seeing what that looks like in the workplace.

[00:20:15] It's like, oh shoot.

[00:20:18] So they have a bit of an awakening.

[00:20:21] They're going to have an awakening when life's not so easy.

[00:20:25] It's not so easy.

[00:20:26] The work ethic's not necessarily what I think it needs to be.

[00:20:30] But yeah, but okay, so we were programmed to live to work, right?

[00:20:37] Yes.

[00:20:38] And their program worked to live.

[00:20:39] Right.

[00:20:40] Which is to be quite frank, I think a hell of a lot smarter, right?

[00:20:44] We're not on this earth to sit around and sit behind a desk and do a job.

[00:20:48] I agree.

[00:20:49] But you make your choices.

[00:20:50] So you can't say I'm going to work to live, but I also want...

[00:20:56] I want to be CEO in a week.

[00:20:58] Well, I don't think they want to be.

[00:21:00] That's the problem.

[00:21:01] They want the six-figure salary.

[00:21:03] That's only because they're paying $100,000 to go through college when boomers paid like

[00:21:09] 15.

[00:21:10] True.

[00:21:11] I mean, the dynamics, to be able to say what you said around rocky and the change,

[00:21:15] it should be.

[00:21:16] It's the evolution of the workforce.

[00:21:18] Right.

[00:21:19] That's where your company and your product should also evolve and flow.

[00:21:23] You shouldn't hope that Gen Z magically becomes Gen X because that shouldn't going to happen.

[00:21:29] No, and it shouldn't happen.

[00:21:30] I'm not saying it should because like, listen, we didn't have anyone showing us the

[00:21:34] way.

[00:21:35] We did not.

[00:21:36] So we did the best we could do.

[00:21:37] Now, Gen Z has had a whole lot of attention and care.

[00:21:42] So they should be the best generation yet.

[00:21:46] We hope.

[00:21:47] We can always hope.

[00:21:48] I mentioned the world of work five years ahead.

[00:21:50] I want to talk about your business.

[00:21:52] Yes.

[00:21:53] You raised $8 million a few years ago.

[00:21:55] You're a mature company.

[00:21:57] What do you want to be when you grow up?

[00:21:58] So our goal is to change the world of compliance.

[00:22:03] So I always say, laws follow people.

[00:22:05] People don't follow laws.

[00:22:07] And what I mean by that is when people screw up, guess what?

[00:22:11] A law gets written.

[00:22:13] So instead of optimizing for, let's understand this law, screw that.

[00:22:18] Let's understand people.

[00:22:20] Let's understand why Boeing, after spending a million dollars a year for 20 years on their

[00:22:24] compliance program, still has jets falling down from the sky.

[00:22:30] Compliance issues.

[00:22:31] They're not compliance issues.

[00:22:32] They're people issues.

[00:22:33] So I want to change the whole world of compliance and get it back to focus on people and

[00:22:39] people's decision making and their skills.

[00:22:43] Because the laws and the lawyers, being a lawyer myself, sorry, we screwed it all up.

[00:22:47] We did.

[00:22:48] All I heard was get a $100 million check from LinkedIn.

[00:22:51] That's all I heard in that.

[00:22:53] Janine Yancey, everybody, CEO and founder at M-Train.

[00:22:57] Janine, for our listeners who want to connect with you or learn more about the company,

[00:23:02] where do you send them?

[00:23:03] Oh, please visit us online at mtrain.com.

[00:23:06] That's E-M-T-R-A-I-N dot com.

[00:23:08] Oh, she's good.

[00:23:09] That's another one.

[00:23:10] Coltrane baby, Coltrane.

[00:23:11] Coltrane night train, M-Train.

[00:23:13] We out.

[00:23:14] We out.

[00:23:15] Thank you for listening to what's it called?

[00:23:19] The podcast, the chat, the cheese.

[00:23:22] Brilliant.

[00:23:23] They talk about recruiting.

[00:23:25] They talk about technology.

[00:23:26] But most of all, they talk about nothing.

[00:23:29] Just a lot of shout outs of people you don't even know.

[00:23:33] And yet you're listening.

[00:23:34] It's incredible.

[00:23:35] Not one word about cheese.

[00:23:38] Not one.

[00:23:39] Cheddar.

[00:23:40] Blue.

[00:23:41] Nacho.

[00:23:42] Pepper Jack.

[00:23:43] Swiss.

[00:23:44] So many cheeses.

[00:23:45] And not one word.

[00:23:47] So weird.

[00:23:48] Anywho, be sure to subscribe today on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play or wherever you listen

[00:23:56] to your podcasts.

[00:23:57] That way you won't miss an episode.

[00:24:00] And while you're at it, visit www.chadcheese.com.

[00:24:06] Just don't expect to find any recipes for grilled cheese.

[00:24:11] So weird.

[00:24:12] We out.

[00:24:14] We'd never admit it, but deep down we all get at least some pleasure from bad things

[00:24:18] happening to somebody we don't like.

[00:24:21] History's full of stories about bitter enemies being mutually horrible.

[00:24:24] Usually nothing good comes of it.

[00:24:26] But sometimes, sometimes you get soul singers James Brown and Joe Tex or 17th century nuns

[00:24:33] Sor Juana and the entire Catholic Church duking it out and dramatically changing our world.

[00:24:39] On Beef with Bridget Todd, we tell the stories of those petty feuds behind some of the

[00:24:43] greatest art, innovation and global events.

[00:24:46] Listen to Beef wherever you get your podcasts.