Revving to a HireRoad with Kristen Boyle

[00:00:00] Yo, Chad! What if I told you there's a platform that could completely revolutionize your hiring

[00:00:07] strategy in a matter of hours?

[00:00:09] Yeah, I'd call it bullshit.

[00:00:12] Well, it's not bullshit with AI for Jobs, powered by our friends at This Way Global.

[00:00:17] Okay, I'm listening.

[00:00:19] While everyone else is fishing in the same old talent pools, AI for Jobs can source

[00:00:24] over 160 million diverse candidate profiles.

[00:00:29] This Way Global has established unique partnerships with over 8,500 trusted diversity partners.

[00:00:36] So wait a minute, all of the hard on-the-ground work is already done?

[00:00:40] That's right, cowboy.

[00:00:41] You can discover 300 qualified candidates per job rack instantly.

[00:00:46] It's like having a candidate sourcing magic wand.

[00:00:50] Dude, if you had a magic wand, you would have Mexican pizzas all day.

[00:00:54] Mmm.

[00:00:57] Stop distracting me, Sowash.

[00:00:59] AI for Jobs' advanced matching algorithm analyzes past applicants using trillions

[00:01:04] of historical matching events and over 1,600 data points.

[00:01:09] Now that is what AI should be doing, saving recruiters time on sourcing while

[00:01:14] they provide a white-glove candidate experience.

[00:01:18] Let's wrap this shit up.

[00:01:19] I'm hungry.

[00:01:20] Listen up, kids.

[00:01:21] Revolutionize your hiring process today by jumping over to thiswayglobal.com

[00:01:27] and checking out AI for Jobs where you can learn more about how to leverage AI

[00:01:32] for your recruiting instead of just writing poems and grocery lists.

[00:01:37] That is thiswayglobal.com.

[00:01:41] We out.

[00:01:44] Hide your kids!

[00:01:45] Lock the doors!

[00:01:46] You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast.

[00:01:49] Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry

[00:01:53] right where it hurts.

[00:01:54] Complete with breaking news, brash opinion, and loads of snark.

[00:01:58] Buckle up, boys and girls.

[00:02:00] It's time for the Chad and Chees podcast.

[00:02:03] Oh, yeah.

[00:02:08] We are live at Transform in Las Vegas Day 2.

[00:02:12] Day 2, and it feels like day 10.

[00:02:14] Rough.

[00:02:16] This is Frank Sinatra's favorite podcast,

[00:02:19] aka the Chad and Chees podcast.

[00:02:22] I'm your co-host Joel Cheeseman.

[00:02:24] Joined as always, the blue man to my group, Chad Sowash,

[00:02:28] is in the house as we welcome Kristen Boyle,

[00:02:31] VP of Marketing at Higher Road.

[00:02:34] Higher Road?

[00:02:35] Aren't we a bunch of bright-eyed and bushy-tailed individuals

[00:02:38] this morning?

[00:02:38] Have we all had our coffee yet?

[00:02:40] Yes.

[00:02:40] No, I have not.

[00:02:41] I've had some, but I need more.

[00:02:43] Caffeinated, motivated, ready to go.

[00:02:45] Thank you guys for having me.

[00:02:46] No worries.

[00:02:47] No worries.

[00:02:47] Chris, a lot of our listeners don't know who you are.

[00:02:49] Give us a Twitter bio about you

[00:02:52] and a little bit about the company.

[00:02:53] Yeah, quick personal brand here.

[00:02:55] So I have been at Higher Road for about six weeks,

[00:02:58] pretty new.

[00:02:59] Previously, I was at Panda Logic.

[00:03:02] Before that, at Amazon Advertising, at Indeed.

[00:03:06] Indeed, the Death Star.

[00:03:07] The Death Star.

[00:03:08] How long were you there?

[00:03:09] He Who Shall Not Be Named.

[00:03:11] Da da da da da da da da da.

[00:03:14] I was there for five years.

[00:03:15] OK.

[00:03:16] My foray into HR tech got me hooked.

[00:03:19] That seems about like the ceiling for most people.

[00:03:21] Five years is about the norm.

[00:03:24] Saw a lot of things.

[00:03:25] It was, yeah.

[00:03:27] And you reside where?

[00:03:28] I am in New Jersey.

[00:03:29] New Jersey.

[00:03:30] In Joyzee.

[00:03:30] OK, so Higher Road, never heard of it.

[00:03:33] What's going on here?

[00:03:34] That's what I'm here to fix.

[00:03:35] Thank God you're there.

[00:03:36] I know.

[00:03:37] How does a company like that nab a talent like you?

[00:03:41] I appreciate that.

[00:03:41] They have kind of revamped all of their leadership team.

[00:03:45] Higher Road has been around, rebranded from Ascendre,

[00:03:49] which is an Australian ATS.

[00:03:51] A government ATS, apparently.

[00:03:54] A government ATS.

[00:03:55] How exciting is that?

[00:03:56] Not just an ATS, but an Australian ATS and a government ATS.

[00:04:01] Yeah, right?

[00:04:01] Things I didn't think I'd be learning about the Australian government.

[00:04:04] Things you'll never hear again in your life.

[00:04:05] Right?

[00:04:06] But so Higher Road has a bunch of other products,

[00:04:09] most notably a People Insight by Higher Road,

[00:04:12] which is People Analytics.

[00:04:13] Also comes from another acquisition,

[00:04:15] but they rebranded to Higher Road about two years ago.

[00:04:17] A new CEO and new leadership team started in the last six months.

[00:04:21] Really strong HR tech talent and expertise.

[00:04:24] So it's really a good time to be here.

[00:04:26] It's a good marketing challenge to come in

[00:04:28] and try to clean up our brand identity a bit.

[00:04:31] And that's why I'm here today.

[00:04:32] Yeah, there are a lot of marketing folks that listen to the show,

[00:04:35] maybe starting in the industry.

[00:04:37] Their bosses said, you got to listen to Chad and Cheese

[00:04:39] if you want to know what's going on.

[00:04:41] You're not wrong.

[00:04:41] They're listening to you now.

[00:04:42] What kind of tips would you give a newbie in the industry

[00:04:45] to find success, particularly with a brand

[00:04:47] that's new and hopefully growing?

[00:04:49] It's a really good question.

[00:04:51] I'll let you know when I...

[00:04:52] Haven't quite cracked that nut yet.

[00:04:54] I mean, it's been, I think,

[00:04:55] a good first few weeks of just ramping up.

[00:04:58] I think you get to know your audience.

[00:04:59] I'm talking to a lot of customers

[00:05:01] from all of our different products,

[00:05:02] trying to find the commonalities.

[00:05:04] I was saying earlier,

[00:05:06] yeah, you've got your Australian government

[00:05:07] and then you've got your HR ops in the US.

[00:05:11] It's a different audience.

[00:05:12] So trying to just understand who your audiences are

[00:05:14] and how to best connect with them.

[00:05:15] But to go from indeed where everyone returns your call,

[00:05:18] everyone knows who you are,

[00:05:20] to this has to be a challenge.

[00:05:21] How do you get over that?

[00:05:23] That's a really good point.

[00:05:23] And I think that's where, I mean,

[00:05:24] HR tech is all about partnerships and who you know.

[00:05:26] And I think that's events like Transform

[00:05:29] are a great opportunity.

[00:05:31] We're trying to introduce a lot of partnerships,

[00:05:33] not just tech partnerships, but referrals, resellers.

[00:05:36] All of that is gonna go a long way for higher road,

[00:05:39] which they haven't really had that yet.

[00:05:40] So Ascendre has been around since 1997.

[00:05:44] That's right.

[00:05:45] So there's a lot of baggage,

[00:05:46] but you got a new game or a new name.

[00:05:48] So talk about that a little bit.

[00:05:50] I think that would be pretty exhilarating

[00:05:52] to be able to come in.

[00:05:53] You've got an organization that's been around

[00:05:54] for a while.

[00:05:55] So obviously they're successful, right?

[00:05:58] And you're trying to change the face.

[00:06:01] What was the reason for the rebrand?

[00:06:03] Help us out.

[00:06:04] Yeah, I mean, so we are owned by a private equity firm.

[00:06:07] And there's of course challenges that come with that

[00:06:09] with branding and kind of consistency

[00:06:11] across the different entities that we have.

[00:06:14] Higher road, I think,

[00:06:16] in the time we're leaning into the recruitment

[00:06:18] to the ATS products that we have,

[00:06:20] there's the play on HR, higher road,

[00:06:22] but all decisions made before I joined, I will say.

[00:06:26] But Ascendre has a really solid brand awareness

[00:06:29] in Australia.

[00:06:30] And we're not selling to outside of Australia to Ascendre.

[00:06:34] So that brand, as far as I'm concerned is pretty solid

[00:06:38] and we're continuing to build up the Ascendre brand

[00:06:41] in Australia.

[00:06:42] But higher road, it's a clean slate

[00:06:44] and we are figuring out who we wanna be as a brand.

[00:06:47] We're leaning into our people analytics product,

[00:06:50] which is incredibly impressive.

[00:06:51] There's a lot of white space there

[00:06:52] that we're excited about.

[00:06:54] But yeah, it's sort of handling these two brands,

[00:06:56] these two different sets of solutions,

[00:06:59] two different audiences and how to connect the dots.

[00:07:01] So I'm still figuring that all out.

[00:07:02] So one is focused on the public sector,

[00:07:05] the other one's gonna be focused on the private sector.

[00:07:08] I mean, that's gonna be a huge difference

[00:07:10] in marketing and messaging.

[00:07:12] And do they understand that?

[00:07:15] Do they get that?

[00:07:16] Yeah, I would say so.

[00:07:17] And again, we're still building out.

[00:07:19] Ascendre has had the blessing

[00:07:21] of not needing a ton of marketing

[00:07:24] to be successful over the last 20 years.

[00:07:27] The Australian government,

[00:07:28] as I'm learning quickly, is a lot about referrals.

[00:07:31] It's a money machine too.

[00:07:32] Yes it is.

[00:07:33] And we're doing quite well in the referral space.

[00:07:35] We have a lot of happy customers,

[00:07:36] which leads to more new customers.

[00:07:38] So that doesn't mean that there's not opportunity

[00:07:41] for some good marketing.

[00:07:42] And Ascendre does sell to some non-government audiences

[00:07:46] in Australia as well.

[00:07:48] So I think there's opportunity there

[00:07:49] and to introduce people analytics

[00:07:51] to those Australian customers.

[00:07:52] So that's where there'll be more marketing

[00:07:55] in the coming months in Australia.

[00:07:58] But right now we're really leaning into

[00:07:59] our existing customers and keeping them happy.

[00:08:01] Smart.

[00:08:03] As a marketing person and an Australian aficionado,

[00:08:05] how do we bring Foster's beer back

[00:08:07] to what it was in the 80s in the US?

[00:08:10] Which everybody on the podcast in Australia is like,

[00:08:12] nobody drinks Foster's.

[00:08:14] Yeah, okay.

[00:08:15] I had a Bloomin' Indian for breakfast by the way.

[00:08:17] It's a great hangover cure.

[00:08:18] Okay, for real questions now,

[00:08:20] you talked about data.

[00:08:21] You said it's impressive.

[00:08:22] What's some new data points that has caught your eye

[00:08:25] that might appeal to our audience?

[00:08:27] Yeah, so I think with people analytics,

[00:08:30] it's like everyone knows it's important.

[00:08:32] You've got your different HR tech systems.

[00:08:35] I've been in the talent acquisition side of things.

[00:08:37] You've got your ATS data,

[00:08:40] some good insights, cost per hire, time to hire.

[00:08:42] It's amazing what you can do

[00:08:44] when you can connect the dots

[00:08:45] across all of your different tech systems.

[00:08:47] And succession planning,

[00:08:49] I think is one that's maybe in a post-COVID reality,

[00:08:52] but cross industries,

[00:08:53] where you're seeing so many of our customers

[00:08:56] interested in succession planning, talent retention,

[00:08:59] internal mobility, right?

[00:09:00] To kind of go against the great resignation

[00:09:03] that we have seen.

[00:09:04] How do we tie in analytics to succession plans?

[00:09:07] How does that work?

[00:09:08] I think it's a combination,

[00:09:09] you're identifying who your top talent is

[00:09:12] through performance data,

[00:09:13] but it's not just, you don't just stop there, right?

[00:09:15] It's what are they doing?

[00:09:17] How are they engaged?

[00:09:18] Let's look at employee engagement data.

[00:09:20] Let's look at learning and development data

[00:09:22] to see if they're getting the training

[00:09:25] and the upscaling that they need.

[00:09:26] Let's look at our turnover trends

[00:09:29] and how that's trending with our HRIS data,

[00:09:33] by gender, by our DEI audiences, by team.

[00:09:36] What trends, how can we proactively identify

[00:09:40] some issues with turnover and get ahead of it

[00:09:43] and to prevent and kind of foster succession planning?

[00:09:46] So we've talked about everything thus far,

[00:09:49] especially the data piece.

[00:09:51] One thing you haven't said, AI.

[00:09:53] I'm jaded, I've been at an AI company.

[00:09:57] As Chad knows, I was saying it's refreshing

[00:10:01] to have a conversation without AI,

[00:10:02] but of course it's ever present.

[00:10:04] Oh yeah.

[00:10:05] We are, again, I think our product is,

[00:10:08] we have a new chief product officer who just came in,

[00:10:11] really exciting roadmap of AI to come.

[00:10:14] We already recently rolled out unstructured data analysis,

[00:10:17] so looking at data like exit survey data, right?

[00:10:22] Just hundreds of interviews.

[00:10:23] And it's more than just sentiment analysis,

[00:10:25] which for exit interviews

[00:10:26] are gonna be predominantly negative,

[00:10:28] but it's how are we kind of distilling the key insights

[00:10:31] from all of that unstructured data through AI.

[00:10:34] And then of course some of the more exciting parts

[00:10:36] when it comes to people analytics,

[00:10:37] like predictive analytics and generating insights

[00:10:42] from all of the analytics that we have.

[00:10:43] So all of that is coming,

[00:10:45] but I think we still have some really great

[00:10:48] data transformation through just machine learning, right?

[00:10:50] I think it's kind of ever present in all technology

[00:10:53] and we very much have that with people insight.

[00:10:56] Yeah, well, I mean, you've been around since 1997,

[00:10:59] large language models love data.

[00:11:02] The secret sauce of any AI platform is data.

[00:11:06] That's right.

[00:11:07] I mean, you've got nothing but data.

[00:11:08] I mean, obviously you've got tech stacks and whatnot,

[00:11:10] but for me, that would be incredibly exciting.

[00:11:12] Now I understand it's gonna be more Australian data.

[00:11:15] It's not outside of that,

[00:11:17] but at least you can start setting up models.

[00:11:19] Is that something that's pretty exciting?

[00:11:21] Because I mean, yes, AI is not forefront

[00:11:24] in the conversation yet, but it's gonna be.

[00:11:26] It is.

[00:11:27] And I mean, that AI story is gonna look a little

[00:11:29] different across our ATS products versus people analytics.

[00:11:33] I think the focus is for AI and people analytics where,

[00:11:37] yes, we can very much connect our current products

[00:11:39] to our people insight,

[00:11:40] but it's really about our customers data.

[00:11:42] And so that's right.

[00:11:43] We're working with our customers to get every single data set

[00:11:46] that they have, that they can continue feeding us

[00:11:48] so that to your point,

[00:11:49] we can continue with the machine learning and building

[00:11:52] and collecting those insights.

[00:11:53] And we have historical data through people insights.

[00:11:56] So we're sort of focused on that.

[00:11:57] I don't know if we're pulling in

[00:11:59] the Australian government data into that quite yet,

[00:12:01] but it is an opportunity.

[00:12:05] Okay, listener,

[00:12:05] how can you help your employees become more productive?

[00:12:09] I have answers.

[00:12:10] How about automating manual and repetitive tasks,

[00:12:14] giving meaning to data,

[00:12:16] then allowing that data to actually drive decisions.

[00:12:19] And how about matching people to your jobs quicker?

[00:12:23] Well, wait, the chat and cheese has a new LLM?

[00:12:26] No, cheeseman.

[00:12:28] I'm talking about text kernel.

[00:12:30] Ah, okay.

[00:12:31] That makes more sense.

[00:12:33] What I'm hearing is the groundbreaking concept of,

[00:12:37] wait for it, simplicity.

[00:12:40] Seriously though, seriously.

[00:12:42] Text kernel cuts through the complexities

[00:12:45] like a tortilla chip through some hot nacho cheese.

[00:12:48] Oh my God, really?

[00:12:49] Nacho references already.

[00:12:51] Anyways, text kernel brings efficiency

[00:12:53] and productivity to your operations.

[00:12:56] Text kernel seamlessly unifies your tools

[00:12:59] and data to drive efficiencies and success.

[00:13:03] Text kernel is creating new opportunities

[00:13:06] for your recruitment journey.

[00:13:08] Kind of like adding guac to my barbacoa burrito.

[00:13:12] Oh my God.

[00:13:13] How about extracting meaningful insights from data?

[00:13:16] I mean, that's something.

[00:13:18] Swiftly matching people with jobs,

[00:13:20] automating repetitive tasks.

[00:13:22] Who knew such advanced concepts were even possible

[00:13:26] in the land of human resources?

[00:13:30] We did, Chad.

[00:13:32] We did.

[00:13:32] Dude, wrap it up.

[00:13:34] I'm a little hungry.

[00:13:35] Imagine that.

[00:13:36] Okay, listener.

[00:13:37] Get ready to use today's tech

[00:13:39] to drive efficiencies and productivity.

[00:13:41] Visit textkernel.com.

[00:13:44] That's T-E-X-T-K-E-R-N-E-L.com.

[00:13:51] Nachos.

[00:13:55] You talked about the promotion side,

[00:13:57] the succession side.

[00:13:58] I wanna go to the dark side of that.

[00:14:00] We talk about layoffs and getting rid of people

[00:14:04] for lack of a better phrase.

[00:14:06] Obviously people use the data

[00:14:08] to see the underperformers or the low performers.

[00:14:10] Are we at a point where laying people off through AI

[00:14:15] and not having those hard conversations?

[00:14:17] Here we go.

[00:14:18] Do you see that coming?

[00:14:20] Cause I do.

[00:14:21] The Amazon model.

[00:14:22] Laying people off.

[00:14:23] No comment.

[00:14:25] Laying people off is really hard.

[00:14:26] And during the pandemic,

[00:14:28] it was convenient to have Zoom calls

[00:14:30] where people were laid off or text messages.

[00:14:32] And it seems like that could be easily automated

[00:14:35] and that discomfort could go away.

[00:14:37] You're shaking your head like, no, but why not?

[00:14:40] I choose to be more optimistic than that.

[00:14:43] I think AI can help.

[00:14:43] Thank you.

[00:14:44] Right, you have to be.

[00:14:46] I think AI can certainly help facilitate

[00:14:49] getting to the layoffs, right?

[00:14:50] It's uncovering skills gaps,

[00:14:53] uncovering the performance trends,

[00:14:56] helping kind of the rankings

[00:14:58] or whatever you might be using for your AI

[00:15:00] for to kind of identify the lower performers.

[00:15:04] I don't know if I see AI getting us

[00:15:06] to a point where press a button

[00:15:08] and a robot's delivering the message for you.

[00:15:09] We saw how that worked at Amazon, right?

[00:15:12] The optics for it, number one.

[00:15:14] And then number two, from a brand standpoint.

[00:15:17] Well, in that case, you've got customer brand,

[00:15:19] right, consumer brand,

[00:15:20] and then you have the employer brand.

[00:15:22] And it killed both of those.

[00:15:24] Right, and you've already got to watch yourself

[00:15:26] with unhappy people that you're laying off.

[00:15:29] You want to protect yourself as a company.

[00:15:31] I think the companies should tread lightly there,

[00:15:33] I think, to watch out from a legal perspective.

[00:15:36] I have a question about the female

[00:15:39] who put some hard questions to the HR folks

[00:15:43] about why am I getting fired 90 days into this?

[00:15:46] On TikTok?

[00:15:47] I've gotten all good reviews, yes, on TikTok.

[00:15:48] Exactly.

[00:15:49] So you risk that.

[00:15:50] Curious, so it seems like the data

[00:15:53] would be a very good way

[00:15:55] to start seeing cracks in the pavement for employees.

[00:15:58] So you don't get to the point of no return.

[00:16:01] Exactly.

[00:16:02] Like, you can start seeing things in the data

[00:16:03] and analyzing that with AI to say,

[00:16:05] because he's falling down.

[00:16:06] We need to save him before he falls down.

[00:16:09] Do you see that with your product and your customers?

[00:16:11] Yeah, I think we are literally seeing

[00:16:13] with people analytics,

[00:16:14] it's like what some kind of trends,

[00:16:17] some issues that might go uncovered

[00:16:19] if you're looking at them in a silo

[00:16:21] when you can actually connect the dots

[00:16:23] and whether there's Chad

[00:16:25] or it's this particular audience in our company.

[00:16:29] Again, if it's certain functions or certain managers

[00:16:33] or certain demographics are suffering

[00:16:35] and we're seeing trends there, let's get ahead of it.

[00:16:37] Let's put HR practices in place to stop gap

[00:16:41] and not just kind of looking at data in a silo.

[00:16:43] You might not see that full picture.

[00:16:45] So we really are,

[00:16:46] we see a lot of our customers

[00:16:47] looking at the full picture.

[00:16:49] It's a saying, it's like going to Mayo Clinic,

[00:16:52] getting the full body scan

[00:16:53] that you can't really see

[00:16:55] an individual doctor's appointment, if you will.

[00:16:57] Well, and you've got L&D, right?

[00:16:59] So you've got learning development,

[00:17:01] not to mention, I would assume,

[00:17:03] that would be amazing for coaching.

[00:17:05] This is all focused in that area.

[00:17:07] So being able to connect those dots

[00:17:09] to ensure that first and foremost,

[00:17:12] you're focusing on making sure

[00:17:13] that person gets more productive

[00:17:15] and you can retain them.

[00:17:17] Hopefully they are more productive

[00:17:18] and you can retain them

[00:17:19] because Lord knows it is expensive as hell

[00:17:22] to be able to not off board somebody

[00:17:24] but then go find somebody else and then onboard.

[00:17:26] Exactly, the cost is incredible.

[00:17:28] And I think we have customers using our learning product

[00:17:32] and it's one thing for HR to be like,

[00:17:33] yep, we rolled out our L&D, check that box, we're good.

[00:17:36] But then we go back to them, all right, is it working?

[00:17:39] Well, I don't know,

[00:17:40] people are taking our courses, sort of.

[00:17:42] So all right, let's look at the bigger picture.

[00:17:43] Let's tie it back to some other performance data,

[00:17:46] so engagement data.

[00:17:47] So yeah, it's sort of looking at the bigger picture

[00:17:49] but I think that's the beauty of the people analytics

[00:17:53] is just connecting the dots.

[00:17:54] The experience I've had with analytics

[00:17:56] and people who use them

[00:17:57] is you have kind of two sets of users.

[00:17:59] One is like, give me the 30,000 foot view,

[00:18:02] give me the big picture.

[00:18:04] And then you have the geeks that are like,

[00:18:05] give me the spreadsheet, give it all to me now.

[00:18:09] How do you balance that as a product?

[00:18:11] Yeah, it's a great question and I will say,

[00:18:13] I don't think we are at the one model stage

[00:18:16] where we're ready to kind of geek out

[00:18:18] and give you all of the raw data,

[00:18:21] behind the scenes coding to kind of enable analysts.

[00:18:24] That's not our end goal.

[00:18:25] We want to be accessible, right?

[00:18:28] We want an HR professional,

[00:18:31] whether you're an HR analyst or not,

[00:18:33] we don't want you to have to work too hard.

[00:18:35] We actually, so People Insight was built on consultancy.

[00:18:39] So we have a team of analysts who are,

[00:18:41] it's like what are your business goals?

[00:18:43] How can we customize our data sets, our visualizations?

[00:18:47] What is the executive dashboard that you need

[00:18:50] that you need to share with your leadership?

[00:18:51] Okay, let's get that together.

[00:18:53] So it's very simple.

[00:18:54] So you customize a dashboard, which is just a snapshot.

[00:18:58] If people want to get deeper, that's their thing.

[00:19:00] But your goal is if the CEO wants to log in

[00:19:02] and he's going to see his stuff,

[00:19:04] head of HR is going to see their stuff.

[00:19:06] We've got customized dashboards.

[00:19:07] We also have the detailed reporting, right?

[00:19:09] So it's a series of visualizations, but yeah,

[00:19:12] executive dashboard is the first thing

[00:19:14] you see when you log in.

[00:19:15] Now, if you as the user want to go in

[00:19:18] and filter by team, by any data cut

[00:19:21] that you want, you can do that.

[00:19:23] And you have consultants to help with that.

[00:19:25] And I think that's big because I think what we see

[00:19:27] or what we're hearing from customers is that a lot of,

[00:19:30] these people, they're not data experts.

[00:19:32] So if you tweak one thing with your data in workday,

[00:19:35] is that going to now screw up everything else

[00:19:37] from all the charts that you've built?

[00:19:38] Of course it is.

[00:19:39] Of course it is.

[00:19:39] Right, and it's like- It's workday.

[00:19:40] Yeah.

[00:19:42] And so that's where we have a great team of analysts

[00:19:45] who are like, oh yeah, we've done that before.

[00:19:46] We got you, we know what to do

[00:19:48] so that you don't have to kind of troubleshoot.

[00:19:49] It kind of just makes it easier.

[00:19:51] So we really, we're the people's people analytics.

[00:19:54] I think it's always been the obstacle

[00:19:56] to make sense of the data.

[00:19:58] The data is pretty much for,

[00:19:59] structured data has always been there

[00:20:02] and you can lay it in front of them,

[00:20:03] but for most people it doesn't make sense, right?

[00:20:06] So you've got to make sense of the data.

[00:20:07] That sounds like what you guys

[00:20:09] are really focusing on doing.

[00:20:10] Exactly, and I think we're not there to,

[00:20:13] and that's where I think the predictive analytics,

[00:20:14] there's a lot of opportunities to kind of further

[00:20:17] how much work can just hand over to you

[00:20:19] if there's no work involved.

[00:20:20] But I think it's also, we incorporate benchmarking data.

[00:20:25] We incorporate trend data

[00:20:26] so that we're making it really easy

[00:20:27] for you to understand what you're looking at

[00:20:29] and what does good look like?

[00:20:31] What does underperforming look like?

[00:20:34] But we're also,

[00:20:35] I think that's where our team of analysts comes in,

[00:20:36] but then it's partnering with customers say,

[00:20:39] what are you gonna do about it?

[00:20:41] What changes are you going to make?

[00:20:42] And I think it's really empowering to HR

[00:20:44] to be able to come to the table with those suggestions.

[00:20:48] Are you struggling to attract the talent you need today?

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[00:21:39] Incredibly competitive space.

[00:21:42] Just a bit.

[00:21:43] Talk about the competitive landscape,

[00:21:44] how you guys are different

[00:21:46] and how you sort of get that message to the customers.

[00:21:48] Like against the Vizier, right?

[00:21:50] Cause Vizier is like the monolith right now.

[00:21:52] They are the monolith.

[00:21:53] I will say, and this is again six weeks in,

[00:21:55] I would say compared to Vizier,

[00:21:56] we are 90% of the value for 25% of the price.

[00:22:00] Oh, wow. That's good.

[00:22:01] Yeah, right?

[00:22:02] You must be in marketing.

[00:22:03] I know.

[00:22:04] I mean, I'm not, I haven't got clearance

[00:22:05] to put that on my website yet,

[00:22:06] but I'm saying it to you guys.

[00:22:08] We are fast and affordable.

[00:22:11] And we are, I think when talking to companies

[00:22:13] of all sizes who are taking their first step

[00:22:15] into people analytics,

[00:22:17] we started with Zendesk when they were a thousand people

[00:22:21] and now they've grown to 6X that.

[00:22:24] And we've been at,

[00:22:25] before they had a people analytics hire,

[00:22:27] they used us.

[00:22:28] We partnered with KPMG who said,

[00:22:31] we're gonna use you guys until we build it

[00:22:33] in a house ourselves seven years later.

[00:22:36] It's still happening.

[00:22:37] So it takes a lot to invest.

[00:22:40] And if you're investing in a Vizier,

[00:22:42] well, upwards of hundreds of thousands of dollars,

[00:22:44] potentially months of implementation,

[00:22:46] we kind of pride ourselves on, get us the data.

[00:22:49] You'll have, you'll see value in five days.

[00:22:51] We're up and running in five days

[00:22:52] and we integrate with everybody

[00:22:54] and we're very affordable.

[00:22:55] So that in and of itself to me is like a no brainer.

[00:22:58] Joel, you know what I'm hearing?

[00:23:00] Knocking on the door of the United States.

[00:23:02] Opportunities knocking.

[00:23:04] The United States,

[00:23:05] which you guys really haven't really tried to engage

[00:23:08] and or invade, right?

[00:23:10] You know as well as we do.

[00:23:12] That's not easy.

[00:23:13] That is not easy, right?

[00:23:15] So what's the focus on go to market?

[00:23:17] Is it gonna be partnerships?

[00:23:18] Is it gonna be trying to go after those big brands?

[00:23:20] What are you guys gonna try to do?

[00:23:21] Yeah, so I think we are kind of narrowing our focus

[00:23:24] on who we're going after compared to say,

[00:23:27] programmatic where there's or recruitment in general.

[00:23:29] There's certain industries

[00:23:30] that have different strategies, different approaches

[00:23:32] that you have a more narrow target audience.

[00:23:34] I think people analytics can be relevant to everyone.

[00:23:37] We're really looking at smaller customers,

[00:23:39] smaller companies who are growing,

[00:23:41] who are getting into this space,

[00:23:43] who have multiple point solutions in their tech stack

[00:23:46] and need to connect the dots.

[00:23:47] So that's where we're going after.

[00:23:48] I think partnerships are huge opportunities.

[00:23:51] We're partnering with even like HR consultants

[00:23:53] who are like, all right, we use your data

[00:23:55] and then we go and fix the problems

[00:23:57] that you've identified in your people insights.

[00:23:59] So I think partnerships is to me the name of the game.

[00:24:02] I'm here to kind of help with the brand awareness.

[00:24:04] How are we going to get in with the right groups?

[00:24:09] I'm still trying to figure out with ATSs, right?

[00:24:11] Getting in an ATS marketplace.

[00:24:13] I think there's a huge opportunity there

[00:24:15] just because we sell ATS.

[00:24:17] I think they're historical.

[00:24:18] It's like, well, you have an ATS so you're a competitor

[00:24:21] but people analytics again,

[00:24:23] by partnering and integrating with anybody,

[00:24:25] we're kind of a natural partner for an ATS.

[00:24:28] So I think there's big opportunities

[00:24:30] we're looking at this year.

[00:24:30] So we should be expecting the Super Bowl ad next year.

[00:24:34] Is that what you're saying?

[00:24:34] After Indeed and Amazon,

[00:24:37] I'm taking myself out of the Super Bowl.

[00:24:39] I'm now a watcher and a fan.

[00:24:41] I'd like to not be stressed out

[00:24:42] the day of the Super Bowl.

[00:24:43] You like the feisty small company,

[00:24:45] like the Rocky Balboa coming into America,

[00:24:48] making things happen.

[00:24:50] Exactly.

[00:24:50] That is Kristen Boyle, everybody from Higher Road.

[00:24:54] Kristen, for our listeners who want to know more

[00:24:55] about the company or connect with you,

[00:24:57] where do you send them?

[00:24:58] Yes, reach out on LinkedIn,

[00:24:59] Kristen Boyle and higherroad.com.

[00:25:02] Pretty straightforward.

[00:25:03] We would love to connect

[00:25:04] and thank you guys for having me.

[00:25:05] It's been really great.

[00:25:07] Thanks for coming.

[00:25:08] Let's all get some more coffee.

[00:25:09] Someone pass the coffee.

[00:25:11] Another one is in the can.

[00:25:12] Chad, we out?

[00:25:13] We out.

[00:25:14] Thank you for listening to what's it called?

[00:25:18] A podcast.

[00:25:19] The Chad, the Cheese.

[00:25:21] Brilliant.

[00:25:22] They talk about recruiting.

[00:25:24] They talk about technology.

[00:25:25] But most of all, they talk about nothing.

[00:25:28] Just a lot of shout outs of people

[00:25:30] you don't even know.

[00:25:32] And yet you're listening.

[00:25:33] It's incredible.

[00:25:34] And not one word about cheese.

[00:25:37] Not one.

[00:25:38] Cheddar, blue, nacho,

[00:25:40] pepper jack, Swiss.

[00:25:42] So many cheeses and not one word.

[00:25:46] So weird.

[00:25:47] Anywho, be sure to subscribe today on iTunes,

[00:25:51] Spotify, Google Play,

[00:25:53] or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

[00:25:57] That way you won't miss an episode.

[00:25:59] And while you're at it,

[00:26:00] visit www.chadcheese.com.

[00:26:05] Just don't expect to find any recipes for grilled cheese.

[00:26:10] It's so weird.

[00:26:11] We out.

[00:26:13] How much do you understand the future of finance?

[00:26:17] I'm Jim Roos, a top 10 banking influencer

[00:26:19] and host of the podcast Banking Transform,

[00:26:22] where we dive deeply into the rapidly evolving

[00:26:25] world of banking and financial technology.

[00:26:28] Join me as I interview industry experts,

[00:26:31] thought leaders and innovators

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