All We Imagine As Light: A medley of art, life and music laced with magical realism

[00:00:11] Hello and welcome to Onmanorama Movie Podcast, Start, Action, Cut. Today we are decoding the film All We Imagine As Light written and directed by Payal Kapadia. The film stars Kani Kusridi Divya Prabha, Chaya Katam and Hrido Haroon in prominent roles. Today, Sajesh and Princey are here to decode the film.

[00:00:33] Aided by a realistic backdrop of the lives of lower middle class migrant working women in Mumbai. The film narrates a short and beautiful story of two nurses and a cook working at a hospital.

[00:00:48] To me, it seemed like a medley of art, life, literature and music and each playing an equally important role.

[00:00:56] But sometimes the effort to keep it realistic becomes overstressed and becomes absurdly visible. For example, the scene which introduces Divya Prabha at the counter.

[00:01:10] She is in a different state of mind, we know, but leaning sideways casually while dealing with a customer does not quite make any sense.

[00:01:19] And it doesn't happen so in real life situations. Also, the treatment of the scene and dialogue that lacks refinement is also something that doesn't quite go well with the film.

[00:01:34] I just pointed out this example to show how the film is being treated.

[00:01:42] So, Sajesh, you watched the film, I think, more than once and you must have a different opinion about others might have. What's your take on this movie?

[00:01:55] Patnumar, first thing, the scene you spoke about was one of the best scenes that I felt.

[00:02:05] It shows that it clearly draws two different characters.

[00:02:12] And if you look at how Payal Kapadia was portraying or showing Prabha, Kani Kusurdi's character.

[00:02:21] And the moment Divya comes in, even before she gets into that stethoscope scene, we kind of feel that the complete mood has changed.

[00:02:34] But the entire backdrop remains the same. Yet, it kind of lifts or changes the mood that we are in.

[00:02:42] So, I felt that Divya was convincing as a bubbly character who was in there as a nurse just to push her life further.

[00:02:56] But at the same time, Kani was somebody who saw work as a nurse in a different manner.

[00:03:02] And that scene, the way the sound design was done in that scene, the stethoscope scene and the one in the, just the one, the continuation from the counter where you see that fisherman inside the aquarium.

[00:03:21] And that scene continuing to the stethoscope scene, the sound design was superb.

[00:03:27] So, it just takes you to a different level. It takes the entire movie to a different level.

[00:03:35] And it gives a glimpse of Payal Kapadia and what is in store.

[00:03:39] And the second scene, which was the second scene you pointed out?

[00:03:44] The scene there itself, Divya Prabha talks to the customer about that.

[00:03:51] So, technically these were the highs of that scene. That's what I felt.

[00:03:55] And then when you come to a realistic side of it, like, you know, a character like Anu can definitely feel bored sitting in one place, you know, given a job of meeting patients or their relatives on the counter.

[00:04:12] And she was feeling naughty or she was feeling a bit, I'm not sure whether I could use the word kinky.

[00:04:20] When this lady comes and tells her about her sexual life.

[00:04:26] And she very teasingly at the same time, very enjoying that moment and being protective about fellow woman.

[00:04:34] She gives her this morning after pill and asks her to take it till she wants her second child.

[00:04:41] So, it just gives you Anu as an all.

[00:04:45] She is concerned about her fellow women, but she is also very lively.

[00:04:50] So, I felt that, you know, that scene completely portrayed Anu for us.

[00:04:55] Yes, that's why I raised the scene, first of all, because I know that different people might be having different opinion about the same film.

[00:05:04] So, Princey, as a movie, I think you had earlier mentioned about how the conversations, how their lives were shown in a realistic manner that interested you.

[00:05:16] So, what were the highlights in the movie while you enjoyed it?

[00:05:20] So, Fatma Kumar, yeah, so like, for me, all we imagine is light as a poetic ode, you know, to migration, Mumbai and finding space in a new city.

[00:05:32] You know, what struck me most was like the film's pacing because it was so much in contrast to what Mumbai is, you know.

[00:05:41] Mumbai is represented as something that is fast and daunting and the pace of the movie is quite slow.

[00:05:46] So, but I felt the makers deliberately try to tell you that Mumbai and this movie is more than all that, you know.

[00:05:54] And it succeeds in doing that by giving you a microscopic view of the people who are part of the city.

[00:06:02] And I think that was one of the highlights.

[00:06:05] And like what both you and Sajish were speaking, the characters were summarized really well.

[00:06:10] They were introduced really well.

[00:06:11] I felt that, you know, all the scenes were able to convey what these characters represented.

[00:06:18] So, yes.

[00:06:19] And also when I talk about the dialogues, I found, you know, the dialogues interesting.

[00:06:24] And also what I liked was how Pyle managed to give you a unique perspective of nursing life in the film.

[00:06:32] Because, you know, though you get to see nurses as caretakers in many movies,

[00:06:36] you don't really see the, you know, the nitty gritties of nursing life.

[00:06:40] It was portrayed really beautifully in this movie.

[00:06:44] Because in one of our conversations, you know, like I had an interview with On Manotoma,

[00:06:50] where she shared that, you know, the movie came, you know, when she started observing nurses,

[00:06:57] when she went as a bystander to take care of her alien relative at a hospital.

[00:07:04] And so she observed the nurses and how, you know, they were approaching life and how they were, you know,

[00:07:11] approaching the profession.

[00:07:12] And that is what gave birth to this movie.

[00:07:14] So it was very interesting.

[00:07:16] You know, you see, you know, there are certain scenes where, you know, how shown, how nurses are handled in a placenta.

[00:07:24] You know, you can see all these things coming into life in other movies.

[00:07:28] And I think Pyle explored that really beautifully.

[00:07:30] I would like to add to what Princey was pointing out.

[00:07:33] I felt that Pyle Kapadia succeeded when she casted Mumbai as a character.

[00:07:38] And I felt that the city was a character.

[00:07:40] And I believe it was a challenge because the city in many of the Bollywood movies or other movies that centered in Hindi,

[00:07:50] heartland, we have seen Mumbai multiple times.

[00:07:54] But Pyle Kapadia succeeded in giving us a fresh Mumbai with all the shades that is on the ground level,

[00:08:02] not something, you know, like Princey pointed out, not something daunting or the highlights only.

[00:08:10] But here we have like the grainy shadows.

[00:08:14] And that looked very fresh.

[00:08:16] But if you look at what she showed from the city,

[00:08:20] the slice of life is similar to every other movie you will see.

[00:08:24] There is rain, there is wind, then there is the crowded streets, there is this crowded local train.

[00:08:31] But every bit of it seemed fresh to us.

[00:08:35] So that was one great thing she did, Pyle Kapadia with the making.

[00:08:40] Yes, two words that Princey used before.

[00:08:43] I would like to raise it again.

[00:08:45] There is poem and the Mumbai as a character.

[00:08:49] Actually, Mumbai, most of the time we see it at night.

[00:08:53] So when she looks out of the window, you see a vast dreamscape.

[00:08:59] It's like a dream.

[00:09:00] You rarely see Mumbai during the day.

[00:09:04] You see Mumbai during the night.

[00:09:05] So that itself is like a poetry.

[00:09:09] And coming to the two characters.

[00:09:11] But Mumbai is called the sleepless city.

[00:09:16] So no wonder Pyle Kapadia chose night and early mornings.

[00:09:21] And that is when the city gets crowded in fact.

[00:09:25] Coming to the two characters.

[00:09:27] As Sajesh earlier said, the two contrasting characters.

[00:09:31] Played by Kani Kusrudya and Divya Prabha.

[00:09:34] As Prabha and Anu respectively.

[00:09:37] The two represent two diverging streams of thoughts actually.

[00:09:41] While Prabha, constant melancholic strain, is forced to shut herself up in a shell.

[00:09:48] Leaving no chance to open up or cheer or seek her own happiness.

[00:09:53] Or even trying to know what gives her happiness.

[00:09:56] Anu prefers to be a free bird.

[00:09:58] As we mentioned earlier.

[00:09:59] Ready to explore any means that gives her the pressures of life.

[00:10:03] She is not bothered about what her future holds in store for her.

[00:10:08] Or what the consequences of her escapades would be.

[00:10:12] Until quite later.

[00:10:14] So these two characters actually tell two distinct or different traits in all human beings.

[00:10:22] Maybe.

[00:10:22] So that might be the symbolic aspect of the story.

[00:10:26] But some scenes look melodramatic.

[00:10:29] Like the scene when they receive the parcel.

[00:10:31] You remember that.

[00:10:32] How Anu brings it into the room.

[00:10:35] So their treatment, I felt a bit amateurish.

[00:10:38] I don't know.

[00:10:39] And what is the most off-putting factor in the movie.

[00:10:41] Is the dialogues delivered in a soft monotone tone.

[00:10:45] And sometimes they are even felt like whispers.

[00:10:49] Whether it's in the car or in the train or in the street.

[00:10:53] And didn't know why the dialogues were led to be drowned by the surround sounds.

[00:10:57] The surround sounds actually elevate the realistic hue of the movie.

[00:11:01] What do you say, Sahajesh?

[00:11:03] Atumar, I felt that melodramatic.

[00:11:08] I am not sure.

[00:11:08] Because maybe I was enjoying the movie so.

[00:11:11] Or I was into the movie so much that I didn't feel out of place.

[00:11:16] The one place where I felt a bit out of the movie.

[00:11:20] When they reached Parvati's hut in the village.

[00:11:26] Where I felt that the blocking was like, it looked like a staging.

[00:11:30] Because till then, the movie was very organic for me.

[00:11:35] And there, it felt like Anu was carrying one set of boxes and then suitcase.

[00:11:42] And then we see Prabha carrying one set of boxes.

[00:11:46] That was one blocking I felt unnatural.

[00:11:49] That was the only scene which was out of place for me.

[00:11:52] Regarding the person, the cooker that comes from Germany.

[00:11:56] So, I believe that that was one crucial point in the movie.

[00:12:00] Because through that cooker, we were getting a glimpse of Prabha's backstory.

[00:12:05] What was happening between Prabha and her husband.

[00:12:09] So, it was a crucial point.

[00:12:11] It was introduced at the right time.

[00:12:13] So, I didn't feel it was out of place.

[00:12:15] And later, it becomes a tool to show us that, you know, the one moment where Prabha lets go of her inhibitions and embraces this cooker.

[00:12:28] With all her emotions and passion that is pent up in her.

[00:12:33] I felt that it was a crucial element, a story tool for the progress of the story.

[00:12:40] Even I would like to agree with what Sadeesh said.

[00:12:44] The cooker scene was actually important.

[00:12:46] And it really represents what she was feeling, you know.

[00:12:50] Because even as someone who, you know, we've all actually moved out of cities.

[00:12:55] We've actually, you know, loved and lost.

[00:12:58] And all these are human emotions.

[00:13:01] And, you know, I think Payal has actually beautifully summed up her, you know, her emotions in that particular scene.

[00:13:08] Because, you know, all cities have baggages that you have to deal with.

[00:13:11] And sometimes you deal with those baggages when you come to a new city.

[00:13:15] And I felt like, you know, such scenes actually made the movie more relatable to people like us.

[00:13:21] And also when it comes to the dialogues.

[00:13:24] When it comes to the dialogues, I found it quite organic.

[00:13:27] You know, even to be honest, I found some of the dialogues actually funny.

[00:13:31] It's kind of, you know, there's a scene in the bus where Anu speaks with a boyfriend.

[00:13:36] And she's actually narrating an incident that was placed in the hospital.

[00:13:40] Where, you know, this older nurse, she was actually cleaning up a patient.

[00:13:44] And, you know, so that particular conversation about that patient actually ended with laughter.

[00:13:52] It's kind of funny.

[00:13:53] And I found Payal has actually managed to bring subtle humor to this movie through certain scenes.

[00:14:01] Even when, you know, you kind of relate to these characters through humor.

[00:14:06] And what do you think about the character of Dr. Manoj played by Aziz Nadamagad?

[00:14:12] I think he did a very brilliant job, right?

[00:14:14] I believe it is one of the best roles of Aziz's career so far.

[00:14:19] And a lot of brilliant filmmakers would have definitely noticed this guy.

[00:14:24] His wet eyes in the last scene when Prabha leaves alone by the swing, that just breaks your heart.

[00:14:33] And he's not asking Prabha for, you know, infidelity or extra marital affair or anything.

[00:14:39] He's just asking that, you know, despite knowing that she's a married woman, he's asking that, you know, can we have a life together going forward?

[00:14:50] Is there any need for him to stay back?

[00:14:53] Is there anything good that would come from he extending his contract?

[00:14:58] So, it could have gone in a lot of vulgar or it could have sounded vulgar if the script was not strong.

[00:15:07] But, and it was delivered without a hold on the character.

[00:15:12] But Aziz did a brilliant job.

[00:15:14] He had full control of this character, Dr. Manoj.

[00:15:17] And he delivered it to the perfection at that moment.

[00:15:21] That's definitely a beautiful layer added to the main narrative.

[00:15:26] But I would like to tweak that scene for the sake of, I mean, I don't know if I have that liberty.

[00:15:33] But that scene could have been better if instead of rising up, he would be sitting on the swing there itself.

[00:15:41] And with a slight glance, Prabha walking away.

[00:15:46] So, that would have made the scene more poignant.

[00:15:50] That is what I feel.

[00:15:52] Okay.

[00:15:52] But I think the poetry part, he gives a book in which there is a lot of poetry poems he had written.

[00:16:02] And when she narrates that, I mean, recites that poem, only just a few lines were there.

[00:16:10] That would have made, I mean, that scene more, I mean, intense.

[00:16:14] But I feel that, see, that poem and all is not at all there to show us, this is what I felt.

[00:16:25] It was not placed there to show us the intimacy or the connection that Dr. Manoj has with or trying to develop with Prabha.

[00:16:35] But it was actually there to show us the character and the complexities of Prabha's character.

[00:16:44] Like her inhibitions, her emotions that are pent up.

[00:16:48] She doesn't want to let it go.

[00:16:51] She was, like you said in the beginning, she was in a shell of her own emotions.

[00:16:56] In fact, I wrote in Cinemascope that she is in a castle of her own emotions.

[00:17:02] And she was not ready to break free from there.

[00:17:06] So, these were elements, early moments that we were given.

[00:17:11] Like the scene where we see there is night rain in Mumbai.

[00:17:15] And then an open window, Prabha wakes up to shut the open window.

[00:17:22] And it just gives us that glimpse of Prabha.

[00:17:28] Like she is closing up everything.

[00:17:30] She is not ready to get wrenched in that rain or emotions.

[00:17:34] And at the same time, you keep seeing Anu always carefree, always as a free spirit walking in rain along with Shias.

[00:17:44] Shias.

[00:17:45] Shias.

[00:17:46] So, she is not bothered about rain or getting wrenched.

[00:17:50] She is in full spirits, always open to embrace whatever comes in the way.

[00:17:55] All these other elements, they were added to show us that difference between these two characters.

[00:18:00] So, it was fine for me.

[00:18:02] For me, the most thrilling part of the story is the episode of the man fished out of the sea.

[00:18:08] It's a brilliant piece of storytelling, I think.

[00:18:10] The scene sums up everything that Payal Kapadia wants to convey.

[00:18:15] And besides, it leaves you a lot to ponder, reflect and introspect.

[00:18:21] And it has poetic charm.

[00:18:23] You are not sure whether it's a vision, a dream or whether it's real.

[00:18:27] But it reveals the instincts hiding deep inside.

[00:18:31] Why Prabha doesn't want to acknowledge that the dawn man is her husband, who she has been waiting for all her life?

[00:18:40] Then why she sends him away from her vision, vowing never to see him again?

[00:18:46] Is it the human nature that she reflects to find some peace or pleasure in keeping some pain alive as long as it can be, as a means to move on?

[00:18:58] Maybe Prabha herself realizes that she approves of her friend's relationship at that point.

[00:19:05] So, I think it's a scene that I would like to revisit several times.

[00:19:10] How was it for you, Prinshi?

[00:19:12] To be honest, I felt that was the most obscure moment in the movie.

[00:19:17] Because everything else in the film was going realistically.

[00:19:20] You could connect really well.

[00:19:22] And then you come to this particular scene where you have this interaction where Prabha is taking care of this man with being fished out of the water.

[00:19:30] And there's no clarity there.

[00:19:35] And I found that, you know, maybe, like you mentioned, maybe it was a poetic, maybe Payal was trying to bring out other aspects of the movie.

[00:19:46] Like, trying to delve a little more deeper into the conflict that Prabha was feeling within herself.

[00:19:53] But it didn't really feel that organic or at the same time.

[00:19:58] It could have been explained a little better.

[00:20:01] And, you know, maybe that is why I found the conclusion a little less effective.

[00:20:06] But I think that obscurity is the beauty of that film.

[00:20:10] What do you have to say, Sajish?

[00:20:12] Do you have anything else, anything to add?

[00:20:14] Patmumar, I love magical realism in movies.

[00:20:17] And I felt that this scene, this particular scene was one such moment.

[00:20:23] And it could be, like Prensi pointed out, it could be something internal, very internal happening inside Prabha's mind.

[00:20:32] Because you see Prabha let go of her inhibitions after this point.

[00:20:36] She embraces that free spirit or free nature, the true nature of herself.

[00:20:43] And, you know, that is why she asked Anu to bring Shias to the shack where they were sitting along with Pavadi.

[00:20:52] So, it was this scene that creates all these changes.

[00:20:57] So, you will see.

[00:20:59] I can, I am ready to take it, you know, completely, this episode completely as a fantasy.

[00:21:06] But I would like to, you know, go till the moment where this old lady calls Prabha inside the hut and tells her that, you know, her husband is feeling cold.

[00:21:18] Or, you know, their vacation got spoiled because of this man getting into the water, falling into the water.

[00:21:25] So, till that moment, everything was real.

[00:21:28] And then, at the moment, somebody tells her that, you know, her husband, it is her husband.

[00:21:34] Then, everything changes.

[00:21:35] And then, immediately, their conversation becomes very organic.

[00:21:39] And they are like husband and wife interacting.

[00:21:42] She just opens up and asks him, like, you know, what exactly happened.

[00:21:46] And then, he, her husband, gives justification to what he was going through.

[00:21:51] Another city, another migration, another life in exile.

[00:21:55] And then, Prabha immediately connects with it.

[00:21:59] So, that scene had to be there.

[00:22:02] And it had to, and otherwise, there is no way that, you know, you can justify a massive change from woman like Prabha,

[00:22:11] who's holding on to every shackle she has built.

[00:22:15] So, this just breaks everything away.

[00:22:19] So, I loved it.

[00:22:20] And then, that comes to the final scene, where you see that, you know, they all are sitting inside this shack.

[00:22:30] And as the camera zooms out, you see that, you know, we hear that a beautiful Peppy song is playing.

[00:22:37] And the boy is dancing behind them.

[00:22:40] And then, you know, the shack itself is lit by LED lights under a starlit sky.

[00:22:46] The scene itself, I would call that scene a hope.

[00:22:49] There is no better culmination or climax for such a story, where we have been in the shadows, in the street of Mumbai for so long.

[00:22:59] And then, all these characters are, you know, finding hope in their life.

[00:23:03] Yeah, true.

[00:23:04] That's what I felt.

[00:23:05] That very essentially describes the title of the movie.

[00:23:09] Hope is what we all imagine as light.

[00:23:12] I think that's a message that it gives.

[00:23:15] So, an outstanding movie, but a bit more care and leveling up.

[00:23:20] Some ingredients, like making the dialogues louder and uneven, would have elevated the experience further.

[00:23:26] And that brings us to the end of this episode.

[00:23:28] Thanks for listening to the podcast, produced and hosted by me, Pat Mogumar.

[00:23:33] Follow www.onmanorama.com for more podcasts and movies.

[00:23:38] And be sure to come back for the next episode of Start Action Cut out on Mondays.

[00:23:42] Thank you.