Transforming India's Food Landscape

[00:00:00] Can there really be a new proposition in the over-cluttered food category?

[00:00:13] We've all heard of Millets, but what explains its rising popularity in India?

[00:00:20] Is it a metro train or does it go down to tier 2 and tier 3 as well?

[00:00:26] Also, what's the key to building a brag for Bharat?

[00:00:30] Welcome to Speakeasy with Dheeraj Sinha, today we are talking to Prashad Pandit Shweraj.

[00:00:35] He is the MD and CEO of Tata Consumer Soulful.

[00:00:39] Prior to this Prashad was a co-founder of Kotaram Agro Foods which was acquired by the Tata.

[00:00:46] Prashad, welcome to Speakeasy with Dheeraj Sinha.

[00:00:50] Hey, Dheeraj likewise looking forward to this conversation.

[00:00:54] Amazing, amazing.

[00:00:56] So listen Prashad, I was going through the whole story and what peaked my interest first

[00:01:01] is that how does it feel right from being outside a large network building your own

[00:01:08] brand, soulful etc.

[00:01:10] And now coming and becoming part of a large conglomerate like Tata.

[00:01:15] So I will first start with how does that transition feel?

[00:01:20] The good bad and the ugly of it.

[00:01:21] No, I think I will just summarize it very, very simply.

[00:01:25] Great for, right?

[00:01:27] And when I say great for, grateful for very many things.

[00:01:32] One is I think it's a big validation and there is entrepreneurs you make large risky

[00:01:37] bets if you will.

[00:01:40] We have always been a very purpose driven brand.

[00:01:43] We believe that brands have to have purpose.

[00:01:47] And like I say, you know, I believe brands are immortal human beings.

[00:01:51] Right?

[00:01:52] So if brands have to be immortal human beings, it needs to go on beyond just let's say

[00:01:59] the founders, the co-founders and the original team.

[00:02:03] And to me, to be with the Tata's right and the brand now being Tata soulful, I'm grateful

[00:02:11] for the simple fact that this is the path of the immortal human being of the brand to

[00:02:17] stay.

[00:02:18] And to me, I think from there it's just a brilliant, brilliant piece.

[00:02:22] I think it's a marriage that's really made, I don't want to jinx it but in heaven because

[00:02:29] we are getting the entrepreneurial nature of the brand, the value system of, you know,

[00:02:36] all of us across India and even outside of India now cherish the Tata brand.

[00:02:43] And how do we actually then take this and get the brands into what I always call the

[00:02:49] value of India and more out of not just the top four, five, you know, six cities where

[00:02:56] you are seated, where I am seated but really into the value of India.

[00:03:00] And I think to me, just grateful for that.

[00:03:02] And as an entrepreneur, I'm committed to ensure that this becomes a success.

[00:03:07] And I think that's what is key for us.

[00:03:10] Amazing.

[00:03:11] Amazing.

[00:03:12] Amazing.

[00:03:13] And so moving on to the business and the space that you are into shant, right?

[00:03:17] I mean, health is kind of heating up in a big way in India, right?

[00:03:23] Post pandemic and so on and so forth.

[00:03:25] And all of us are relooking at our behaviors, our food that we eat, everything, all of

[00:03:32] that.

[00:03:33] I don't understand from you how widespread or how deep is that?

[00:03:36] Do you see this as a surface?

[00:03:39] You know, I watched a few recent.

[00:03:40] I made a few changes now have turmeric in milk.

[00:03:44] Is that the level it is at?

[00:03:46] Or is it going deeper?

[00:03:48] Is it going deeper in terms of town class, middle Indian, so on and so forth?

[00:03:53] You know, what's really going on from your perspective?

[00:03:56] That's a great question.

[00:03:58] There is a great question.

[00:03:59] I think.

[00:04:00] So first, let me, I'm known to buzz myths.

[00:04:03] So I'm going to start busting some myths.

[00:04:05] Amazing.

[00:04:06] Right from yeah.

[00:04:07] Right.

[00:04:08] I think we all think of health and you know, health and wellness and we think about

[00:04:14] all of it.

[00:04:15] It's right.

[00:04:16] Don't get me wrong.

[00:04:17] Yeah.

[00:04:18] Right.

[00:04:19] But but let me first address the health and wellness part.

[00:04:21] Right.

[00:04:22] I think the whole piece right on health and wellness definitely COVID has been jumped has

[00:04:28] made us all take a second and pause.

[00:04:32] But like all realities of catastrophic events, those memories paid right?

[00:04:38] Those memories paid very quickly.

[00:04:40] Absolutely.

[00:04:41] I mean, there was a time in the office or right from work from work from home.

[00:04:45] There's that suddenly it looks like COVID me.

[00:04:48] It suddenly feels like was a decade ago.

[00:04:51] Right.

[00:04:52] What was merely fewer months ago.

[00:04:54] Yeah.

[00:04:55] So the path that I want to really so definitely that is.

[00:04:58] It's had its health and wellness.

[00:05:00] It's had all of that we've realized that you know vaccines can only take care of us for

[00:05:03] so much.

[00:05:04] You know, we need to take care of the food.

[00:05:07] One part that COVID is done and I will relate this to telecom and industry have always

[00:05:12] watched with lot of closeness right?

[00:05:16] Telecom also we had the jump right?

[00:05:17] We didn't do the classic landline.

[00:05:20] We went straight into early from and we leap from and I think what that has done is it

[00:05:25] is it has definitely done a leap frog from my health and wellness perspective.

[00:05:30] However, the path that I want to bust is food is genuinely supposed to be about nourishment.

[00:05:37] Yeah.

[00:05:38] That is what your grandmother told you, your mom or told you.

[00:05:41] Absolutely.

[00:05:42] I told you right?

[00:05:43] That's what my grandparents told me right?

[00:05:45] I call them party.

[00:05:46] Tata whatever right whatever you may call them food was about nourishment which is why

[00:05:52] we ate dal ki chiri, we ate sambar right?

[00:05:55] We ate all of that.

[00:05:56] It was always about nourishment and I think India has the ability to not have to follow

[00:06:04] the Western world in what has happened on packaged foods.

[00:06:09] I believe if we stay rooted to course of purpose of what you know food really means and

[00:06:15] we can stay forward to nourishment as being one of the major and more important pieces

[00:06:21] that is there.

[00:06:22] And that is why for us I think that becomes a difference and hence I said I want to bust

[00:06:26] that myth because for that person and I go back to the core and if I have to say of the

[00:06:32] belly of India, he or she has worked so hard to get 1500 rupees of disposable income on

[00:06:38] a monthly basis.

[00:06:41] Brands such as us have to work four times harder to ensure that we don't provide junk back

[00:06:49] for his or her hard earned 50 rupees but provide strong nourishment options because he or

[00:06:55] she has got a very limited food right and how do we then ensure that because he is not

[00:07:01] really thinking about health and wellness, he is not thinking about all of that.

[00:07:06] I am hungry.

[00:07:07] I am genuinely hungry.

[00:07:08] My kid at home is genuinely hungry.

[00:07:10] My wife is genuinely needing those food items back home and I think that becomes very

[00:07:15] very core and important.

[00:07:16] So I would not look at health and wellness from that particular piece if you will.

[00:07:22] Very interesting.

[00:07:23] I mean just going a bit deeper into because it is a topic of fascination for me as well.

[00:07:29] So I have done a lot of work in this space as well.

[00:07:33] I helped ITC launch the juice category.

[00:07:37] I also before that I worked on Ashivath.

[00:07:40] Ashivath was in fact the name in the brief itself and that became the brand.

[00:07:46] So I have keen interest in food and I feel that food in India is cultural right.

[00:07:51] It has character.

[00:07:52] It is tamseks, satvik right?

[00:07:54] It is auspicious.

[00:07:55] It is a whole joy and celebration around food so you cannot understand the idea of food

[00:08:01] in India in an objective way minus the cultural connections that it comes with but help me

[00:08:08] understand a bit more.

[00:08:09] For example, I see my own plate now and we are going back to Raggi and we are going back

[00:08:17] to Mundaal Chila and we are cutting down on carbs.

[00:08:22] It is almost like going back to what my parents always said but I defied right?

[00:08:27] So are you looking at India from a usage nourishment?

[00:08:32] Are you looking at India from a nutrition point of view in terms of how do we at a large

[00:08:37] scale make sure that we move the country to a more nutritious, more healthier eating

[00:08:44] behaviors and habits and what are the insights or what are the strategies that is emanating

[00:08:50] from that thinking.

[00:08:53] So I am very glad that Raggi and Jovar and all of that is popping back on your plate which

[00:08:58] I think is great right?

[00:09:00] I think there are two important parts not just so I think what you said right?

[00:09:06] The India like and you have been there, you have seen brands across forget food even in

[00:09:12] personal care I think we are a country of many India's right?

[00:09:16] And I think it is very important for us to understand what works in each zone, state,

[00:09:21] town even if you will and how do you really do it?

[00:09:26] The minute we start saying it is one size fits all I think that is where failure starts.

[00:09:35] So let's take some things very, very simplistically and I mean before we get into why melads

[00:09:41] and all of that but I will just use the simple example again of melads right?

[00:09:46] What Raggi means to a person in Karnataka and what Raggi means to somebody in Tamil Nadu

[00:09:53] very different.

[00:09:55] What nots me which is the same as Raggi in the astra has a very different connotation.

[00:10:03] You move further west towards the north, Bajara Roti and a Jowar Roti start having a different

[00:10:10] feel and different things.

[00:10:13] How do you bring this back in?

[00:10:15] And you move to the east, you move to Orissa and they start calling Raggi or Nadsni Mandaya

[00:10:22] right?

[00:10:23] If somebody had to name the same thing in different ways then he or she has a different

[00:10:29] connection.

[00:10:30] And I think it's very important for us to peel those connections and be able to say what

[00:10:36] is it that you are offering to the consumer back in his or her own area because this is

[00:10:42] not Karnataka Karagi.

[00:10:44] It is Orissa Karmandaya, it is Maharashtra Karnaj and how do you then actually start looking

[00:10:50] at that?

[00:10:51] And the minute you start changing that I think then it starts moving right?

[00:10:55] Obviously there are pieces in terms of communication there are all of that but I think that's where

[00:11:00] the real connection really starts coming out.

[00:11:03] Yeah, amazing.

[00:11:04] I want to probe this a bit more because this is very interesting because food is about

[00:11:11] core in India, it's center of plate and core doesn't change so easily.

[00:11:15] In fact, I did a study where I understood that most of the changes have happened at the

[00:11:21] periphery.

[00:11:22] They haven't happened at the dinner or the lunch plate but they happen in the snack

[00:11:26] moments right?

[00:11:27] Say Mahagi is happening in the snack moment.

[00:11:29] So we've kind of welcomed influences at the periphery but the core in India has to

[00:11:34] be intact right?

[00:11:35] It has to be Dalu tea, Chawal because we feel that's where the Sanskar kind of gets transferred

[00:11:42] right?

[00:11:43] So how are you navigating the equation between tradition and modernity?

[00:11:49] I mean, how much of tradition to leverage in your business and marketing and how much

[00:11:56] of modernity to leverage in terms of formats, you know, presentation, recipes, all of that?

[00:12:04] How are you navigating that equation?

[00:12:06] Yeah.

[00:12:09] So very interesting one and let me also tell you as we are very, very clear and focused about

[00:12:17] reviving millets.

[00:12:20] We are extremely clear that we are not here to replace rice, wheat or corn.

[00:12:28] If we go down that path, I think we would have done a big, big mistake, a big injustice

[00:12:34] to the country and I don't think that's a path we will go down right?

[00:12:39] Because everything like you rightly say has a place on the plate and what our journey

[00:12:46] is about reviving these grains which used to be a part of the plate and bringing them

[00:12:54] back into today's plate.

[00:12:56] It has kept the generation so that transition is going to be slightly tougher, which means

[00:13:04] a child of today, which is I'm saying the young India or the future of India really has

[00:13:12] not seen his or her mom that actually consuming millets but it is the grandmother grandfather

[00:13:22] who has actually been, has seen the consumption and has actually seen what would I say

[00:13:30] the large decline of these grains.

[00:13:33] So that's point number one.

[00:13:35] So given that fact of the batter on the table to assume that in a generation you will make

[00:13:42] it to the center of the plate, I think is a very far-fetched one.

[00:13:48] That layered with the second part which is and this is again not just the case of urban

[00:13:56] India but is the case of Bharat if I may.

[00:14:01] The number of meal occasions are significantly increasing and which is why like you said

[00:14:09] in the snacking and all of those because these are large new consumption occasions which

[00:14:16] really didn't exist as much.

[00:14:18] So there's no traditional mental model to that?

[00:14:22] Absolutely.

[00:14:24] I think and to keep the core of the Sanskar, the food to be a part of home which is the breakfast

[00:14:33] lunch and dinner more so.

[00:14:36] Dinner more so.

[00:14:37] And especially as we move into a nuclear and I'm trying to not look at India today.

[00:14:44] If you have to look at India 20-30 years out, we will move further and further down this

[00:14:51] path.

[00:14:52] We will move further and further, it'll take time for it to really come into the belly

[00:14:57] of India for dual income household.

[00:15:00] And I'm saying reaching to 10 lakh population, 15 lakh population, 5 lakh as we call it

[00:15:06] right, the TLPs in all of yours.

[00:15:09] It will take that time but it will move there.

[00:15:11] These occasions will only increase and how you over the course of one next school generation

[00:15:19] focus on a simple piece of how do you make millet relevant for those consumers?

[00:15:24] I think that is got to be the core.

[00:15:27] And I am again stating so one of the things that we always say as much as it's about

[00:15:32] millet, the way we look at it is how do we make millet relevant to the 21st century

[00:15:38] consumer right, that is on most of my slides that I open with right what is start as

[00:15:43] full making millet relevant to the 21st consumer right, it doesn't just mean we'll

[00:15:48] make Jubhi product on our lake as well.

[00:15:51] Does it mean the purpose is not solved right, so that's the core and that's the thinking

[00:15:56] in the philosophy.

[00:15:57] Nice.

[00:15:58] And so how are you approaching this Prishandar?

[00:16:01] Are you saying that okay let me target the biscuit occasions and replace this or let

[00:16:06] me target mega occasions and replaces or are you saying I will take a share of nourishment

[00:16:14] and nutrition that there's a certain gap in the nutrition palette and therefore I will

[00:16:20] target that what's really the approach or all of it.

[00:16:24] Yeah so I wish it was all of it, I mean if it's like this right, if you try to do all

[00:16:28] of it none of them will succeed.

[00:16:30] So I like my back.

[00:16:31] Yes.

[00:16:32] If you will and be clear and focused.

[00:16:34] I think what really we focus on is what we call the Minimials equation right and when

[00:16:39] we talk about Minimials what does Minimials mean right Minimials is essentially all other

[00:16:44] occasions that are classic lunch and dinner right and how do we then focus on various

[00:16:50] Minimials occasions.

[00:16:51] We look at yeah very, very clear intention spaces right mom chai interaction right very

[00:16:59] very interesting large diners and trust me we've done enough and more of the study it does

[00:17:05] in change from the highest level of income lowest it does not change mom wants a child

[00:17:12] wants to see they both are trying to find where is the midpoint right and that tension

[00:17:18] exists at every every level.

[00:17:21] Yeah right so there is that and among various consumption occasions and that pattern also

[00:17:27] changes from age of 5 to 20 right.

[00:17:30] If you will just say and I guess with with respect to August 15 right there is the status

[00:17:38] of independence that the child really gets right or what is that really arching independence

[00:17:43] where mother starts losing control and child starts taking control of his own life if

[00:17:49] you are able to get the analogy and make it right and there are a way as many sets of

[00:17:54] locations that are there and so we look at each of those consumption occasions through

[00:17:58] and through.

[00:17:59] So it could be a going to school moment, it could be a coming back from school moment,

[00:18:03] it could be in the school moment, it could be in the bus moment, in the commute moment

[00:18:07] and there are various moments.

[00:18:10] I prefer to come from like the classic old school marketing of day in the life of the consumer

[00:18:18] versus what I call see today.

[00:18:20] Nice yeah.

[00:18:21] I would just say market research oriented category approach because a category approach

[00:18:28] means you do, yeah this market size is not share.

[00:18:33] In a place where you are really trying to define blue oceans if you come category towards

[00:18:40] consumer I don't think you will ever find a blue ocean right.

[00:18:43] Yeah you already bound by the given exactly right so you are already thinking in a

[00:18:50] parallel like a horse with the reins on right and I think in the minute you start looking

[00:18:55] at it from this way you start seeing opportunities, you challenge status right newer brands like

[00:19:00] as our job is to challenge status go.

[00:19:03] What is status go status go is somebody has been doing something great has been successful

[00:19:08] it's growing growing but by the way the world has changed dynamics have moved maybe he

[00:19:14] or she's blind sighted look at that blind sightedness finally opportunity go after it.

[00:19:20] Yeah yeah nice amazing.

[00:19:22] The other dichotomy in India I've traditionally discovered Prashant is the whole equation

[00:19:28] between taste and health right and long time back the Mariko's of example where they

[00:19:35] optimized for health and not taste and did not succeed in the first session right so

[00:19:42] you know Ajay who is student capital foods once told me that you know you know

[00:19:48] Bhartiye kahi bhi chala ja right but Jypta kusko mircha suad ni yata aosko khanek me

[00:19:54] trypti nahi hoti right so so for India right I mean hell is fine but it has to be tasty

[00:20:00] right we will not we will not subtract taste for the sake of health right how are you navigating

[00:20:07] that I mean are you actively thinking about it what's going on on that front there's no

[00:20:12] actively thinking I think it's safest to embrace the reality and the truth and I give you two

[00:20:17] pieces right pieces on this so one is I used to work in the west I used to work in the US right

[00:20:24] in the US you know you could say gluten free low car yeah etc people will compromise on taste

[00:20:31] right and they're fine with yeah and it's not compromise on taste I think it's also the lack of

[00:20:37] Masaera you know the whole masala the sauce tanginess yeah they don't have that in their talent right so

[00:20:44] for me as an Indian I say boss you're compromising on taste but his definition of taste is also slightly

[00:20:50] different yeah it's a line yeah come yeah it's a lie when you come to India I cannot agree more

[00:20:56] say at the end of the day it's food what is difference between food and medicine taste yeah yeah right

[00:21:04] career in the business of food the not in the business of medicine yeah so that's the first

[00:21:09] thing right to my mind I'm very clear right here in the business of medicine it's fine we'll make

[00:21:14] Ragi Bala pills 100 KK Calcium Joby right then then you're in a pharmaceutical business

[00:21:21] there are not enough pharmaceutical business we have the business of food so that's the first

[00:21:25] and at Soulful we're very very clear right we go by this one mantra which is taste first and health

[00:21:31] forward amazing I like that yeah it's and health forward and health forward right and when you look

[00:21:38] at that it basically tells you how it's fantastic right and that's a very very clear if you look at

[00:21:46] some of the products right and every single product that we have launched right there is no where

[00:21:53] that you will ever hear a consumer saying taste it's an eda right that's not something he or she

[00:22:00] may not like a variant right in our eyes we have a chocolate vanilla strawberry right

[00:22:07] we play a lot or dial around a lot on sugar level salt levels fat levels we bring them totally

[00:22:13] down we don't have Meda in any of our kids the range of products yeah right we don't add Meda it's

[00:22:18] the easiest thing for me to do yeah right we don't but that does not mean yeah the child which

[00:22:24] who is in Meda is no problem mummy Diaz so I will eat it now that child is thinking of all other

[00:22:31] stuff he say who's got lunch box me he's got snack box me here she's thinking about all the other

[00:22:37] brands and companies are there yeah why should that child be penalized for his or her mom's decision

[00:22:44] absolutely right and and that we are very very clear on I mean second yeah even if we look at the

[00:22:51] adults range of our portfolio right how do you get so we have a masala or if you taste the masala

[00:22:57] or plus right the consumers love the masala they are the kick if you taste our tomato flavor for

[00:23:06] example it's got a massive top note of spice right because we like that I mean there is the

[00:23:12] yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah tomato and then there is the kickball automatic we like clear we look

[00:23:17] eight months you said never kickball America chaiy bina kikballa mergo nekar na right and how do you

[00:23:22] that and it becomes very important to put it and ingrain it right at the core of product development

[00:23:29] yeah research all of those pieces right so today we are exploring some flavors right and we're

[00:23:35] looking at some flavors that we believe that there are things that children like but they're not

[00:23:40] stating it they've not seen it right they've not really felt it but how do you then start bringing

[00:23:45] you know from some other category as we call it yeah some inspiration and bring them in yeah

[00:23:51] some will work maybe some will not work but I think the concept of compromising on taste

[00:23:57] is a complete no no yeah how has this been because you are you are trying to get a behavior change

[00:24:05] and food is the hardest behavior to change so how's it going so far I mean what are the challenges

[00:24:11] you're seeing or what are the wins that you've already got yeah so I think I think

[00:24:17] you're absolutely right because when it comes to food in the minute you say health

[00:24:22] yeah yeah karab over karst they have add millets oh yeah brown color dark color yeah you know

[00:24:30] I mean with due respect we gained our independence but our love for the color white is still very

[00:24:34] high right so we like everything right now so what does that mean for a brand so what that means

[00:24:42] for a brand is essentially the core of letting the consumer know that hey I got your back

[00:24:51] I understand that you are doubting me can I deliver the taste can I deliver how back up

[00:24:57] I say ingredient healthy better for you all that I'm getting but yeah yeah because don't forget

[00:25:04] he or she has worked hard for the same fifty hundred bucks the bespoke up yeah correct yeah he or

[00:25:10] she's going to say boss why should I go here navela cheese this come and I know try it yes

[00:25:17] yeah why should I fail at my cost right yeah I should I feel right I'm not willing to experiment

[00:25:24] classic early adopters you know the graph but if you just go down to human science forget all

[00:25:30] these earlier adopters the graph all of this basic thing I have fifty hundred bucks you want to

[00:25:36] sell something to me I don't know I don't believe you I don't buy you sampling sampling and being

[00:25:43] at the core of activation has been one of the core pillars for us so right from get go that has

[00:25:52] been a mantra we have been insanely clear about we continue and that's what we will have it is

[00:25:59] worked it has worked now obviously I mean you and me have also been sampled lot of things on airplanes

[00:26:05] where you're like thank you for making it taste them I'm never going to buy this again right you don't

[00:26:09] want to be in that that bracket if you will so which means if you are confident about your product

[00:26:16] right if you're confident about that sampled to the low sample and get people to be convinced

[00:26:23] that hey this is worth amazing a piece of pie of that fifty hundred rupees that you struggle to work for

[00:26:30] so shant you know I want to switch gears a bit and you know so obviously India's had many

[00:26:36] traditional brands right I mean we know we know a partly and a Britannia and you know all the

[00:26:41] all the food companies right and now across categories including in food now we have new age brands

[00:26:49] coming in and in many categories new age has succeeded significantly I mean at R&B in fact help build

[00:26:56] some of them you help build Amazon Spotify phone pay Ola and so on and so forth how are you

[00:27:02] navigating that part you know being a new age brand trying to build new behaviors new category

[00:27:07] you have some support of a traditional name such as data now so that I'm sure is helping

[00:27:12] but how you're navigating the whole building a new age brand and finding quick success because

[00:27:18] finally it's also about getting some early gains right I mean nobody we're all running a business

[00:27:23] and nobody's waiting to to give you the leverage that five years later you will deliver goods

[00:27:28] to the shareholders yeah absolutely and you know I also come from a very hardcore distribution retail

[00:27:38] background I don't come from the classic marketing background if you will

[00:27:44] and the hard and way that you know my dad is taught me and then I've gone selling into stores

[00:27:50] and collecting the money the outstanding bills as you call it

[00:27:55] deliver value to the consumer be relevant to the consumer and you will succeed

[00:28:02] be relevant to the consumer and you will be irrelevant and I think keeping things as simple

[00:28:09] as that sometimes can just do wonders if you see our front of back you will never see a cluttered

[00:28:17] soulful back we will stand very very clearly this is start a soulful this is the product range

[00:28:24] these are one two three things we deliver right the architecture there are just to give you a sense

[00:28:32] has been drawn up five seven years ago right we have thought about how is this brand going to look

[00:28:39] even at a massive massive scale nice yeah brutal they have brutal about this

[00:28:46] and I have no qualms of being brutal internally because at the end of the day I'm being very honest

[00:28:53] to that same consumer who has worked hard to get 50 hundred rupees of disposable income per month

[00:29:00] and if you are through an honest to that I believe very strongly you will be able to build strong brands

[00:29:08] you look at various opportunities look at bench of stuff and I think see the key part what new

[00:29:14] age brands really do what I was saying earlier is you are working on a world which is very dynamic

[00:29:22] brands that have been there are just growing and may not adapt and see some of the

[00:29:30] changes absolutely this dynamics yeah and that's the key yeah the example you spoke about

[00:29:36] Spotify the way music is listened to the music has heard yeah phone pay the way money was transacted

[00:29:43] right I mean today and I just on a side note right a very interesting conversation I have

[00:29:48] and I always speak this up in various cities right whenever you're on the red light there's a guy who

[00:29:53] comes in he's like quickly transiting I love it he's got the phone pay I mean he's got yeah absolutely

[00:29:58] yeah yeah he's got your code yeah I asked him so I asked him a question right I keep asking just to

[00:30:03] reassure myself that I'm not making a he says sir the beauty of this but I said

[00:30:08] was but now it's recorded government will know how much yeah yeah making does it concern you

[00:30:13] he said sir what's up choo I'm able to close way more transactions I just have to get signal today

[00:30:19] rather than use the change lose all of that and the interesting thing is I'm able to make a transaction

[00:30:26] there are a lot of customers by then they've not paid me but you know what more often than not

[00:30:31] by the time they've reached an hexagonal mirror pass pass area right so even if they were made

[00:30:36] and I think that's a great change yeah think of this person who's not really educated and all of

[00:30:42] that how they are now who they thought people are saying they who's got hard cash

[00:30:46] to you yeah yeah who was thinking about the hard cash right versus this and I think how you

[00:30:53] challenge it as co I think becomes very very important and there will be some key things that will

[00:31:00] happen that change stuff right yeah so one of the things that I read a lot on is curriculum right

[00:31:07] what are children being taught right within that is change nice interesting yes that is changed then

[00:31:13] something is changed right something has to change yeah yeah I mean it's like forces of Newton

[00:31:18] right yeah there's a push and pull to everything yeah yeah exactly exactly so so I think that's the

[00:31:29] thing so for example mehda today the children no they have the duties I don't think I was taught

[00:31:36] when I was a child no yeah now in their mind with mehda but they say oh the good stuff I like has mehda

[00:31:44] yeah how is this going to taste so how does the brand don't really work through this right yeah

[00:31:49] so which means the child is aware but are you going to generate that trial because perception

[00:31:54] is not going to be in the right place so then how do I work on various pieces to constantly up

[00:32:00] this game on perception yeah absolutely absolutely absolutely I will give you a damn good product all

[00:32:08] our communication is dialed on this little anger yeah yeah absolutely in fact all all my learnings

[00:32:16] in fact in in selling new behaviors or change is that in India change happens from grounds of

[00:32:22] familiarity right so when we sold Amazon we sold it like upke apni dhukaan that's like your neighborhood

[00:32:28] so when we sold phone pay we sold it like yeah it's like it's everywhere everybody can use it any

[00:32:34] amount anybody uses so you have to you have to lower the barriers rather than say you say this is

[00:32:39] change people said no I don't want to change you say same as what you're doing but better

[00:32:43] yeah I want to look at it so in India new always happens from the grounds of comfort and familiarity

[00:32:51] you know and and if you which you're doing you're you're talking about taste and you're talking about

[00:32:56] mother child and all of that and and you're already bringing the change from the realms of

[00:33:01] of familiarity and what we are used to in terms of marketing Prasad how marketing and also

[00:33:07] business right I mean how much is e-commerce and how much is offline how are you looking at

[00:33:12] channels there I mean between digital and and physical yeah so so I spend a lot of time I

[00:33:19] again if you have to see a lot of my focus is looking at very basic things very very basic things

[00:33:25] what's happening today e-commerce and D2C put together is close to 20 or percent of our overall

[00:33:32] business the growing significant yeah that's pretty significant growing significantly

[00:33:39] offline business is also growing significantly I think these borders of e-commerce and what we

[00:33:47] call general trade modern trade yeah is going to get murkier and murkier yes to the dislikes of all

[00:33:56] of us right the so-called learned community if you will yeah or marketing gurus if you will

[00:34:04] but I think it boils down to the simple thing right everyone's got a mobile everyone's got data access

[00:34:09] everyone's got the cheapest possible lowest data access right yeah so if I walk into a store I am

[00:34:16] going to price check why will I not 50 under rupees yeah I struggle to win it yeah I'll check

[00:34:20] what I'll check right it's like you know imagine a Dukandar come in saying no you're price check

[00:34:24] maybe like I'm out of your store buddy yeah right it's my money who are you to tell me I can use

[00:34:30] my phone to do price check right there was a point in time where you know grosses where not allowing

[00:34:35] you to do price checks as a consumer yeah yeah you're a consumer is a more ruled this is okay you don't

[00:34:40] end your mobile phone the mobile it all started with the mobile phone game correct it all started with

[00:34:45] the mobile yeah so I think the way I see this so so to me I think that multiple pieces but at the same

[00:34:53] time one needs to also understand the categories that you play and I think category dynamic start

[00:34:59] when I say category again the consumption occasion I've just left school

[00:35:05] a pocket changer maybe they're safe there to go bus stop say I'm going to walk past those bakery

[00:35:12] shops those chaiwala dukan I'm gonna want pass my favorite department store I have a little bit

[00:35:18] pocket change that mama has given me right I'm going to do something with that money yeah so there

[00:35:24] is a consumption occasion is he or she going to order on the phone at that particular point

[00:35:29] now you you want to know she goes home yeah once you're she goes home let's assume the mom is at home

[00:35:35] or they beat the mom and dad in the evening they'll say you know what my friend told me this

[00:35:41] papa how can I have your phone I want to see on flip card yeah Amazonia big basket

[00:35:46] right so suddenly the same child who made a small transaction in a store is going home

[00:35:52] and making a transaction on the phone and adding to the cart right so suddenly you start seeing

[00:35:58] now I think what becomes very important is for brands and all of us to know it's that same child

[00:36:04] who went to a panwala or GT classic making sure but also transacted on your brand Amazon yeah

[00:36:12] so yeah it's the same child and so which means look feel experience touch feel brand language

[00:36:19] everything has to be the same yeah the importance being cannot change yeah if that gives you

[00:36:26] absolutely no yeah no absolutely very very interesting and in marketing shant I don't know how much

[00:36:32] of marketing do you actually get into but how are you navigating that between traditional media

[00:36:37] online media influencer marketing you know how are you navigating that piece in your mind

[00:36:43] so I mean as much as I say marketing guru and all that my core is obviously in the marketing DNA

[00:36:49] that side of things I just try to break things down so that people don't get

[00:36:52] absolutely yeah I mean I have into box I have yeah I have the I have a filter call I tell people

[00:36:59] that you know we're all triple filtered MBAs right and we are paid to create the work that we do

[00:37:05] consumers not paid to look at this work so please always have that filter on yeah absolutely absolutely

[00:37:13] agree so I think I think the way we look at marketing I think multiple pieces I get I'm going to go

[00:37:19] with you remember that telecom days and I'm sure they are you seen the prepared post paid

[00:37:24] sim card you see in that whole Rpu game etc yeah boils down to the same thing customer acquisition

[00:37:32] customer retention right to very very you know very very core things so as much and as we called in

[00:37:42] the funnel right we got a key by acquiring consumers A because you have a new brand we have

[00:37:47] we are barely touched the country we're barely touched at the top box if you will so you have to

[00:37:53] constantly have the peace in terms of getting the set of the consumers so for that there is a set

[00:37:59] of task there is an activity there is all of those that we need to do and then there is the

[00:38:04] peace in terms of stop the leaky bucket right yeah don't allow your buckets to leak as you feel

[00:38:10] the bucket becoming the water tank becoming the larger tank the larger tank stop any leaky buckets

[00:38:16] right so this I call this retention piece and I think there are two very very large dynamics

[00:38:21] two very different dynamics so from a top and especially because we have a lot more to go a lot

[00:38:28] in terms of our GT sign of our business the landscape understand and again my gratefulness is

[00:38:36] we are in a place where we are able to go into every household every store that consumes

[00:38:43] deshka chai and deshka nama kha amazing yeah right which is started the entire salt yeah now that's

[00:38:50] a very very large of a huge leverage so as we do that it becomes very very important that we start

[00:39:00] actually bringing in a lot of consumers from some of the traditional pieces of media and we use a

[00:39:06] lot of the traditional pieces of media from that very very clear and communication a lot of our

[00:39:12] digital work right a lot of our digital work is on retention and all of those pieces that's where

[00:39:21] in fact a lot of our digital pieces not firing the other part where a lot of our digital also comes

[00:39:28] is within the categories where we look at young adults and when we look at young adults that's

[00:39:36] where really a lot of focus in terms of how we look at digital how will you do we approach them

[00:39:42] it could be on whatsapp it could be on facebook it could be on insta it could be on youtube

[00:39:46] it could be on the reels recently I was in indoor and I was I was with a taxi driver

[00:39:52] right and champion was on his phone I got into the car I said what are you watching

[00:40:00] use an instagram reels right use on instagram reels that's it yeah I see

[00:40:08] and if you see he's just like he's sick for me just mindless videos right mindless videos now he

[00:40:15] has the disposable income right so if I have to target him and imagine right and obviously I'm

[00:40:20] not in the car when you're on a market visit we are in out you know how the guy is the only time to

[00:40:25] do the reels yeah yeah and it becomes very important for us as a brand to be able to be there

[00:40:30] you'll be able to be able to be there and and how do you know when watching tv he's not going

[00:40:37] home and watching tv right so many consumption occasion now the challenge there is is the what

[00:40:44] is going to stick in his memory right so much of information overload that and then how do you

[00:40:51] measure that how do you measure the impact of what you're doing is it working I mean that's

[00:40:55] where our jobs then come in yeah so that's where I don't I'm not I'm not as much as impressions are

[00:41:02] important yeah I think getting strong relevant creatives and content yeah it's very very very very

[00:41:14] key yeah right as much as we could say what is our content strategy what is our content strategy

[00:41:19] yeah right you know all needs to tie itself beautifully because think of that same person

[00:41:23] where it'll just use the same guy right as he's flipping through so many reels just one add in going

[00:41:29] to do it and I think that's a mistake lot of people do right now we have tv card but I mean

[00:41:32] I was just we'll just change the frame to that we'll change everything yeah never one more

[00:41:40] so that's how i that's how we look at it yeah so yeah so do get into it quite a bit but leave

[00:41:46] the smart up folks in my team to really drive and in fact so Raseka who's the co-founder of soulful

[00:41:54] she heads the marketing yeah so I know the baby is in good hands yeah amazing amazing I mean you've

[00:42:00] definitely thought through the mental model is very very clearly Pshan give me a sense on I mean

[00:42:05] what would you what advice would you have right you're you're an entrepreneur at heart right and

[00:42:11] so what and I'm also asking from a context that you know the honeymoon with the funding game is over

[00:42:19] right and and we I mean a lot of a lot of people I know in the game are going through hard times

[00:42:24] right now right so say about 12 months back or 18 months back where it was very very clear that

[00:42:32] if you have an idea you're stupid that you're sitting on it right to today when you talk to folks

[00:42:37] and they're like I don't know right I don't know so what what would your advice be to entrepreneurs

[00:42:46] and to entrepreneurs in the food business interesting deep question I will be honest I'll just

[00:42:54] say what's worked for me right and yeah and I think every entrepreneur journey is a story of its

[00:43:00] own yeah what's worked for me brilliant family right I had a brilliant family who backed me to the

[00:43:09] hilt great co-founders who even today backed me to the hilt a strong team which we have built with care

[00:43:24] and we have been genuine we have been soulful we have never been sinful right and and when I say

[00:43:29] that I said with every single element I think what's important is to ensure that these three

[00:43:37] things are there right and the reason I say is the classic right you have a great idea

[00:43:41] karnai nakarna karnai nakarna then you get into opportunity cost what's my opportunity loss was

[00:43:47] keep all that aside do you want to do this do you not want to do this you know and now I'll sound

[00:43:52] like a broken paper product don't good for the money never do it for the money yeah if you do it

[00:43:57] for the money game over game over yeah right yeah and that's why I said because you have that's

[00:44:03] to be a reason yeah kira qi why why why what is that yeah otherwise it's not sustainable yeah you can't

[00:44:10] sustain it's not sustainable and and the fire here the fire here has to be self igniting so every

[00:44:18] time you think of it boom it has to be like 100 kilowatts is just flown through you so I think that

[00:44:24] becomes important and because then that fire is there you I love the poster you know a friend of mine

[00:44:31] gave me when I quit my job he says the old school poster you know red and white background man

[00:44:37] and I'll choose a job you love and you'll never have to work in your life right yeah I have to

[00:44:41] get that frame right yeah I mean be it on a holiday be it on anything this the brain is operating

[00:44:46] right the brains operate yeah the second is be ruthless about making tough decisions

[00:44:54] and when I say it's very easy to try to please all and I'll go with a very very famous saying that

[00:45:01] you know another and multi one says as a good manager you don't need to and he said it from a

[00:45:06] manager I take it from entrepreneurship yourself you don't need to be the most loved

[00:45:13] you don't need to be the most loved and I think this is a yeah you you cannot be I mean you're not

[00:45:19] here to sell ice creams yeah but as long as somebody can ask you and you say yeah if that person had

[00:45:27] to put yourself in your shoes would you do the same thing and if that answer is yes you know

[00:45:31] you'll take a right decision right so I'm not saying you have to make decisions to hurt people

[00:45:37] but don't make decisions to be loved very small difference but it's a large business this

[00:45:45] right and so the minute you wear that hat right then you start getting into being a very

[00:45:50] very focused person yeah some people will say about you know cut and right hair and all of that

[00:45:56] but at the same time just staying focused right because it's very easy to move left and right

[00:46:03] I'm having and once you are clear about the purpose you'll have people you'll have you know

[00:46:08] people on your cap table on your table off your table wanting to be on your table wanting to

[00:46:14] be off your table you'll have all of that but very very clear of why are you here why did you start

[00:46:21] the business what is your idea all about and I think it's just stay focused on that I don't think

[00:46:27] it's just about yeah it's about others so for example today right somebody would ask me

[00:46:31] maybe so what are you going to do next right yeah for me this journey is just begun I want to get

[00:46:36] me let's into a lot more homes I want to be a part of the revival of these grains if I can play

[00:46:44] a part of the huge purpose yeah at 60 huge purpose I will feel happy right I'm not saying I'm going

[00:46:50] to do this for 30 years right but I think it's very important to stay committed to that piece

[00:46:56] to see it in the right place to me when I know I'll be super happy is when I'm about to pop

[00:47:03] this immortal you may be still exists yeah right and other soulful still existing to me is going

[00:47:09] to be a very important piece yeah amazing hopefully that gives you a question yeah fantastic

[00:47:15] pressure yeah for fantastic and all of my last question right I mean work life balance is there

[00:47:21] is there any and how do you how do you navigate I know you're into sports and stuff like that

[00:47:26] so how do you navigate work life health all of that aspect because see I mean we realize it's not

[00:47:32] it's not a sprint right it's a marathon I mean everything I mean you building a culture organization

[00:47:37] on the ownership it's it's it's so how do you navigate that what's your point of view we give

[00:47:42] a fun fact there is so the first day of commercial production of soulful my first daughter was born

[00:47:48] oh wow wow so it's very easy for me to know that date right and I just keep track of a

[00:47:57] rich that's for us so it's an interesting one at the initial stages I think the line is very very

[00:48:04] murky right as the initial stages the line is very murky if I can then further add one of my co-founders

[00:48:12] also happens to be my wife why so right so which makes it which makes it but yeah it makes it and

[00:48:22] I'm only coming from the work life balance part and then what had been happens so initial stage

[00:48:27] I think work life balance is a very very tough one as the brand goes and I go back to again sorry

[00:48:34] very simple thing it's an immortal human being so at one year of age of your start-up think of

[00:48:43] that startup as a one year old child wouldn't a discipline discipline may over right so some

[00:48:49] large show some care as that becomes four five seven yeah most of all right get a little bit there

[00:48:57] get a little bit there don't get it boring don't get it boring but there is that thing so as it ages

[00:49:04] I think it gets a little bit better and then it starts becoming very important of saying when you

[00:49:10] are doing it be all in when you're not there right be out so I think that if you look at it from

[00:49:16] that immortal human being and I think it then becomes and makes it easier to happen

[00:49:23] I will also so I remind myself are a very very simple thing right so which is a quote from Mark

[00:49:28] Ziegobur and she says life is about choices yeah you have work you have family you have personal

[00:49:37] and you have social so four things right if you think you can do all four consider yourself wrong

[00:49:48] pick two or three you have to give up one for each is that's a choice yeah obviously the startup

[00:49:56] get over can't go out right yeah so I mean we caught that I mean such a fantastic conversation and

[00:50:04] we've reached that point in the podcast where we turn the mic around right so I've been asking you

[00:50:10] questions non-stop and you know it just has that so many mental models are so well thought

[00:50:15] through your brain to share it's been a fantastic conversation just love the conversation

[00:50:20] about your chance to you know grill me back I love that I love that but but thanks they are

[00:50:29] getting you know why enjoy I think some of these conversations also personally as well is it also

[00:50:36] helps a hopefully one is also get your mind as well thinking everything to me is a learning opportunity

[00:50:45] so this is a great one and hopefully would help and can help the listeners to your show as well

[00:50:53] so so so likewise so let's move let's move to what I didn't expect so this is an interesting one

[00:51:00] and I'm told it's like a rapid fire round that's so we can do it a simple question

[00:51:09] so yeah yeah it's not so I'm on this whole health plan for last one year right

[00:51:18] so I love I love these raggi crispy you know doza so they're very tasty and at the same time

[00:51:28] they don't do any harm so so at my home we have all these plea whatever batter of multiple of

[00:51:34] these raggi java and some mix with spinach and so on and so forth but I'm loving that

[00:51:39] right that's one second I'm also loving chia chia seeds pudding so I and I do it myself so I get

[00:51:46] almond milk I take it I fix it myself and I'm loving that so two of those nice nice

[00:51:53] village your married I'm married and we have two kids yeah nice what are your kids absolutely

[00:52:01] hating what do they hate when you buy when you buy when you buy from a store obviously we'll

[00:52:10] stay close to food and FMCGF you don't have to name the brand obviously village yeah

[00:52:19] I think I think they hate any kind of control right or any kind of we try to map our choices

[00:52:27] or behavior of them I think it's just fundamental sense of rebellion right so you know it's about

[00:52:35] them having their choice through as as conceptual as that then it doesn't matter you know

[00:52:43] nice nice I completely completely you know buy that and it's interesting just

[00:52:50] aside is to see so we've always said pesto power in India is not there very very high in the

[00:52:56] western world all right I would actually see at what point that inflection point will change so

[00:53:01] which obviously will then change your work and my work and yeah everybody here completely so

[00:53:08] healthy food versus delicious food you think that's a choice to be made no delicious I mean the

[00:53:14] reason I told you I love the agi doza all the chia seed pudding they're absolutely I mean

[00:53:21] right I mean I feel like I'm having key right without any sugar so I mean it has to be delicious for

[00:53:29] it to be healthy in my mind I mean those versus the devil otherwise I mean I mean we were at

[00:53:36] some friends yesterday and we were discussing that food is one of the biggest joys in the Indian

[00:53:40] culture I mean how can you not have food I mean food is for celebration food is for worship food is

[00:53:47] when somebody dies I mean food is so integral right you cannot take away the deliciousness from it

[00:53:54] nice nice and then do you think the I mean what people use internally and what people know of

[00:54:00] externally you know the taste may help be is it an oxymoron or is it you know

[00:54:08] or what's your what's your your your your your a great advertising guy what's your what's your take

[00:54:13] have you come up with a better line if you will yeah I think I think when people sit like that out of

[00:54:19] the duty trust because you've broken the two things down in A plus B right human mind and especially

[00:54:27] the Indian mind doesn't doesn't navigate food like A plus B it navigates food in a wholesome

[00:54:34] sense right if you look at if you're not tally right it's a it's wholesome joy there are textures

[00:54:39] there taste everything flows into everything else and you make it in one mountain you eat right so

[00:54:46] you the moment you begin to break down the idea of food in India into A plus B you've lost me

[00:54:53] and therefore I mean one of my biggest cases is Ashin Madh right when we name that Aata Ashin Madh

[00:54:58] the whole idea was that in India if the mother who's a gatekeeper I mean I use the idea of semi

[00:55:04] permeable membrane right I mean she will allow the right influences it she was okay computer will

[00:55:10] come to the house burger is okay snack but dinner has to be roti on dining table everybody together

[00:55:16] right and then we said Ashivadmaka Ashivadmaka is what it is now in the idea of Ashivad this everything

[00:55:22] this health there is taste there's watch salya there's sanskar everything so you have to find

[00:55:29] constructs which are culturally holistic and not turn it into a mathematical binary absolutely now

[00:55:36] very very nicely said very nicely said one of the best new launches you might have seen

[00:55:41] in the last maybe post COVID era post COVID era during COVID we saw a lot of

[00:55:46] between these boosting immunity boosting and all that post all that era anything that really like

[00:55:51] wow regardless of scale I think a lot of the eve launches are looking good food to me

[00:55:59] in foods specifically I mean hard hard doesn't come to my mind so that's inspiration for entrepreneurs

[00:56:07] yes I think so I think so I mean you tell me it's all the world stuff which is coming to my

[00:56:12] view in fact launched audio red velvet you know in time with stage your three Netflix I

[00:56:19] mean that's one of them maybe it's because close to me I mean we've worked on that category

[00:56:22] that comes to my mind but I never said I agree with you it's a huge blue ocean

[00:56:28] I love that poster by the way I still remember the design I was in the market and if I'm not mistaken

[00:56:35] Therick may have I'm wrong it was Oreo and then there was a slice like a proper slice of a cake

[00:56:41] yeah like a proper red velvet cake it was opposed to that stuck in my head and I think what this is

[00:56:47] you three years at least there is your family a second yes that's that's a darn good poster

[00:56:53] right and I'm just saying this has not from FMCG food and that to poster of all things right

[00:56:59] I mean I know there was billboards there was all of that but I remember that just so whoever did it

[00:57:04] in your team please tell them it was a very very good thing thank you yeah in fact in fact you know

[00:57:09] I did a huge study at some point time you should manage the business for McDonald's and I did a huge

[00:57:14] study on the food cultural food visual anthropology right and look at the idea of food in India

[00:57:20] is when you shoot it right in a western format it's already clinical and clean in India it has to

[00:57:26] flow I mean you go to any cat well right it is visual overload it has to be sensory overload if

[00:57:31] you're eating not flowing from here not coming from here there's no joy in it right and therefore

[00:57:37] when you're doing photography for food in India right it's a little messy a little overflowing a

[00:57:42] sense of abundance you have to code all of that India's not a sanitized clinical it's not that market

[00:57:50] absolutely absolutely nice nice well thank you so much Diraj I think I mean that's that's

[00:57:56] all the questions I had yeah lovely and really enjoyed the conversation Diraj yeah amazing thank

[00:58:02] you so much for doing this which I wish you all the very best wish you a lot of luck and success

[00:58:07] I'm sure you will get that and thank you for doing this yeah cheers cheers look forward to

[00:58:12] stay in touch cheers have a great time yes thank you bye bye

[00:58:17] millet is making a remarkable comeback in India this surgeons can be attributed to the pandemic

[00:58:24] which heighten our awareness around health what's also helping is the government's aim

[00:58:30] to make dish ke millets such as Ragi Joar Bajara main street making them available to households

[00:58:37] across India Prasham talks about the challenges in building this category unlike the previous

[00:58:44] generations who grew up with millets as a dietary staple most of us haven't seen them in our

[00:58:50] kitchens at Tata Seoul full they recognize this generational gap and the mission is to make

[00:58:57] millets relevant to the 21st century consumers the trick is to introduce millets to this audience

[00:59:04] in a way that resonates with their modern dietary preferences and lifestyles on the topic of

[00:59:11] building a brand in Bharat Prasham underscores the need for marketers to understand the different

[00:59:18] geographies and the cultural nuances the key here is to forge emotional connections with deep

[00:59:25] local understanding those are my learnings from the episode what were yours