Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
[00:00:00] Shopify grows your business no matter how far or big you grow.
[00:00:06] Shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business.
[00:00:12] Whether you're selling your fans next favorite shirt or an exclusive piece of podcast merch,
[00:00:18] Shopify helps you sell everywhere.
[00:00:21] Shopify powers 10% of all e-commerce in the US.
[00:00:26] Allbirds, Rothys, Brooklyn and millions of other entrepreneurs of every size across 175 countries.
[00:00:34] Plus, Shopify's award-winning help is there to support your success every step of the way.
[00:00:42] Because businesses that grow grow with Shopify.
[00:00:46] Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com slash income, all lowercase.
[00:00:54] Go to Shopify.com slash income now to grow your business no matter what stage you're in.
[00:01:06] This is Pop Culture Confidential and I'm Christina Yerling-Beru.
[00:01:22] In the end, there's so many people when they die, they say, oh, I wish I had done this,
[00:01:28] I wish I had done that.
[00:01:30] But when I die, I'm going to say I got to do this and I got to see my daughter
[00:01:34] win an Oscar and I got to make wine and I got to make every movie I wanted to make.
[00:01:39] And I'm going to be so busy thinking of all the things that I got to do that when I die,
[00:01:45] I won't notice it.
[00:01:46] Hey everyone, welcome to another dispatch from the 2024 Cannes Film Festival.
[00:01:57] Yesterday was a full day with among other things, Yorgos L'Amplimos' latest collaboration
[00:02:03] with Emma Stone, Kinds of Kindness.
[00:02:07] His fascinating, bizarre, dark film all about control with the incredible cast of Jesse Plemons,
[00:02:15] Emma Stone, Margaret Quali, will have occasion to get back to that one in more detail on
[00:02:20] another show.
[00:02:21] I also saw Paul Schrader's O Canada starring Uma Thurman and Richard Gere which was
[00:02:28] unfortunately less successful for me, especially following some of his better projects the last
[00:02:35] few years, Frustre Formed and The Card Counter.
[00:02:41] You just heard Francis Ford Coppola there at the top of the show because yesterday was
[00:02:47] very much all about Francis Ford Coppola's Megalopolis.
[00:02:52] This project that he's been working on and thinking about since the 80s, a huge project
[00:02:59] with a huge cast that all came together here at Cannes.
[00:03:03] We have Adam Driver, Aubrey Plaza, Lawrence Fishburne who he's worked with since Apocalypse
[00:03:10] Now one of his oldest acting collaborators.
[00:03:14] Of course Giancarlo Esposito, John Voigt to name a few.
[00:03:20] Before we get into some of the things that Francis Ford Coppola and others said at the
[00:03:25] press conference, this movie merits a discussion.
[00:03:31] Thank you so much for joining me John Bleesdale.
[00:03:33] You guys know John Bleesdale.
[00:03:34] He's been on the show before.
[00:03:36] He's a critic.
[00:03:37] He's a writer based in Italy but from British of course.
[00:03:40] You also have the podcast Writers on Film which I've talked about a lot on the
[00:03:45] show but you're here to talk to me about Megalopolis.
[00:03:49] A film that needs talking about.
[00:03:51] The most talked about film of the festival so far I would say.
[00:03:55] The Coase Celeb.
[00:03:57] But yeah it's weird because it's a film which is for me personally very difficult to actually
[00:04:03] put my you know come down with a definitive opinion or judgment.
[00:04:08] Why don't you start talking about what it's about?
[00:04:12] Right okay so it's a story about New York.
[00:04:19] Seen as a form of the Roman Empire.
[00:04:22] Seen through that what would you say it's a metaphor of the Roman Empire.
[00:04:27] Basically there's an economic crisis, there's political dysfunction so if it sounds familiar
[00:04:32] stop me.
[00:04:35] And there is an architect who's a sort of Enron figure played by Adam Driver called
[00:04:41] Kathleen Caesar conflating two Roman figures and he is he has discovered a wonder
[00:04:47] substance which is partly organic partly a building material and he's using it to
[00:04:55] redesign the city according to his dreams and he also has the talent to
[00:04:59] stop time which is one of the many many strands of the story which sort of you
[00:05:07] know goes off into filigree complication without ever really resolving itself.
[00:05:12] He is in love with the mayor's daughter who or he will he falls in love during
[00:05:17] the film with the mayor's daughter who is called Julia which leads to a lot of
[00:05:21] Julia Caesar jokes in the dialogue or accidents I'm honestly not sure which
[00:05:27] they are. So he's opposed by the mayor who has previously investigated the death
[00:05:35] of his wife Caesar's wife so they are sort of sworn enemies and the mayor is
[00:05:41] a sort of conservative who wants to open a casino in order to fund the city
[00:05:46] and get it out of debt. When Caesar talks about dreams and society with beauty
[00:05:52] the mayor talks about no we need education and we need health I mean he's much more.
[00:05:57] Yeah it's hospital so it's kind of strange because the politics is very very mixed up so
[00:06:03] to say the mayor is just conservative isn't isn't quite right. There's even worse characters
[00:06:09] yes and there's on the political spectra of megalopolis. Absolutely there's Crassus who's played
[00:06:15] by John Voight who again brings his own sort of baggage to the to the park to the role
[00:06:22] and he is a he's Crassus the richest man in Rome. He is the banker and so stands in for the
[00:06:32] financiers of the city and his son Sheila Booth and her two his three sisters they're kind of
[00:06:40] waiting for the succession and there is a sort of heavy feel of succession the TV show to some degree
[00:06:47] I don't think necessarily intentional that sort of spreads over the film. Would you say he's kind
[00:06:52] of like maybe an Elon Musk type of figure? The Adam Driver figure? No the John Voight.
[00:06:58] I would say the Elon Musk vibes came much more from the from the Adam Driver the Caesar
[00:07:03] because he's an innovator he's thinking out the box he doesn't care he's sort of non-democratic
[00:07:09] he sees the best way and just why can't people get out of his way literally you know pulling down
[00:07:14] people's houses. I see him more as Coppola. This is where I think it resists interpretation because
[00:07:19] everything means 20 things and and there's a possibility it means nothing you know at a
[00:07:25] certain point a series of fine line drawings just becomes scribble and I think we have a really
[00:07:32] big scribble on our hands here and it's not that's not necessarily a bad thing but if you're looking
[00:07:39] for fine line drawings and you know depictions which make sense coherence you know consistency
[00:07:46] this is not the movie for you. There's another theme just to mention before we get in on what
[00:07:51] we think of it and that's sort of criticizing of the media there's Aubrey Plaza who's actually
[00:07:56] I think really really good in the film playing Wow Platinum. Wow Platinum the journalist in some sort
[00:08:02] of type of Fox News situation who actually marries the John Voight character and wants to take over
[00:08:10] all the banks and the money and does so together with Shia LaBeouf.
[00:08:16] As you can see there's a lot of themes probably too many themes but what did you think I know
[00:08:23] it's hard to distill it down to it. Well I mean while I was watching it I did have a lot of fun
[00:08:28] watching it there are sequences which are extremely I mean he's been working on this for I don't know
[00:08:33] since the 1980s was the original conception although having an original conception and then
[00:08:39] making a film you know 40 50 years later is not necessarily that unusual a thing.
[00:08:45] You know Scorsese with silence for instance it seems to be something
[00:08:50] something that the older filmmakers go back to their youthful projects that they didn't have.
[00:08:54] But at the press conference Esposito and Lawrence Fishburne did mention that this
[00:09:00] they had red versions of it many many years ago. Oh yeah no I don't doubt it was that I'm just
[00:09:06] saying it's not unusual it's like well if you'll get old enough. It's the only thing you
[00:09:09] can do. Exactly he was doing stuff in between you know and it feels the reason I mentioned
[00:09:16] the length of time is it just feels like he hasn't thrown anything away that all of those ideas are
[00:09:20] in there and so you will have a mass of things happen there's a circus there's a satanalia there's
[00:09:26] a wrestling competition there's a chariot race but there's like a chariot race where there's like
[00:09:31] one shot of the chariot race and you're thinking well why isn't that like a sequence or a scene
[00:09:36] you know why don't we see the chariot race why don't we see who wins you know.
[00:09:41] But we just basically get I mean I'm not sure if it's one shot or two shots but it seems
[00:09:44] an extremely expensive thing to set up and then not use or not develop in any way to basically use
[00:09:50] have in the background. And then on the other hand there are other things which are incredibly cheap
[00:09:54] and you can see that he didn't have the resources or the money or the time or the actors you know
[00:10:00] Dustin Hoffman turns up as a character and then kind of I assume because his days were up
[00:10:06] gets crushed by a pillar for no reason whatsoever and that's one of the things it's just so
[00:10:11] so so inconsistent there are so many strands to the story that just don't go anywhere I mean
[00:10:19] I'm not sure if this is a spoiler but a main character gets shot in the face
[00:10:25] and it isn't mentioned again you know it's sort of like I think that's
[00:10:31] I think that's sort of a problem isn't it you know if you're looking for coherence in your films
[00:10:36] if you're not then then this is wonderful it is a problem and look it's insane it's messy and if it
[00:10:45] wasn't Coppola I think we'd have a complete different conversation you and I on our hands but
[00:10:50] I have to say that I was mesmerized and I kept thinking about it because I feel that
[00:10:57] Peter sent me my husband sent me La Repubblica they said this is not a Coppola movie this is
[00:11:02] Coppola that's like this is not apocalypse now this is Vietnam you know I'm not making me about
[00:11:10] I mean this there is something about it that you feel he's the dreamer he's he hates modern
[00:11:17] everything that's going on he hates politics that are going on he hates the media he hates
[00:11:21] everything he sees around him and he's trying to put this puzzle together in his own head
[00:11:26] he's also mixing in all this about love I thought a lot about Eleanor his wife who just
[00:11:32] passed and there's one beautiful scene that I actually moved me quite a lot when he does
[00:11:37] stop time which is a feature that sort of comes and goes the stopping time thing but when they do
[00:11:42] kiss and they sort of fall in love and that's when he wants to stop time and I thought that was quite
[00:11:47] beautiful this is Amy Poehler my new movie Disney and Pixar's Inside Out 2 is coming to theaters
[00:11:52] June 14th and it's making me feel joy and sadness and anger definitely some disgust
[00:11:58] and I think a little fear but I'm also feeling these new emotions like anxiety and embarrassment
[00:12:04] envy and ennui it's what you call the boredom okay that one was weird it's gonna be the feel
[00:12:10] everything movie of the summer Disney and Pixar is Inside Out 2 rated PG rental guidance suggested
[00:12:15] only in theaters June 14th get tickets now I can't pan this film entirely because I feel so much
[00:12:22] that he's put everything his whole career his whole life everything into this he could have had someone
[00:12:29] help him structure it a bit and I wish it would have been better but on the other hand for me
[00:12:37] personally it did move me and did have me thinking about the entirety of Coppola's career in a way
[00:12:43] that I wasn't quite expecting it's quite the capstone isn't it it doesn't you know it does
[00:12:48] so many different things and it's so you want to like it and on the screening I saw
[00:12:55] there was sort of a spattering of booze right when the ending came up and then dedicated to
[00:13:00] Eleanor Coppola came up and the booze sort of went off and rightly so you know you've got to
[00:13:06] have a heart but yeah in any other context this would have been booed and cheered you know
[00:13:15] probably fairly equally all right just the fact that I think he's he's he's digging into his legacy
[00:13:21] there's something beautiful and a bit sad this is my perception of it I ask him it might not be true
[00:13:27] but but I feel that he is really thinking about death and what is he leaving behind and what is
[00:13:33] the legacy I want to leave a beautiful legacy I want I've been dreaming I've been a dreamer
[00:13:38] all my life we can achieve utopia through artists through thinking and and the whole modern society
[00:13:45] but not even modern society just politics in general the greed of men is destroying this idea that
[00:13:51] could be so beautiful and it just feels like that is something that he's pouring into this
[00:13:57] well weirdly the the film itself becomes an argument against that idea in the sense of we
[00:14:04] let's not have a producer on the film let the artist be the producer and you get shambles
[00:14:10] and you know you need a producer coming in and saying do we really need to see Francis and we
[00:14:14] could cut this and this this could go straight to this and I don't understand this plot point
[00:14:18] yeah or focus on this theme and not these 12 themes yeah precisely and I know extravagance
[00:14:24] is fun and everything but the politics of the of the film I think there's something very
[00:14:31] very right-wing about it he doesn't like he doesn't like populism he doesn't like Trump
[00:14:38] mainly because he sees vulgarity I mean that's the real it's a taste thing rather than an ideological
[00:14:43] thing but he does champion this Ayn Rand style superman who we're all supposed to trust because
[00:14:51] he's invented magic and again if you look at Elon Musk or you look at Bill Gates or any of the
[00:14:58] tech bros who have had their chance to convince us of their you know ability to improve society
[00:15:04] they have they have completely failed and and made society a kind of a measurably worse place with
[00:15:12] some of their innovations and inventions or if not it's certainly not by any you know will
[00:15:17] of theirs so I do feel that that I mean that that's not to say a film has to agree ideologically
[00:15:25] with me or even with itself but when we have a scene where the film lays out its manifesto there's a
[00:15:33] big speech and we get shots of 9-11 and things like that Hitler Mussolini just to sort of like you
[00:15:41] know it makes Spike Lee look like the most nuanced and subtle of filmmakers then you know you just
[00:15:48] get these very windy abstract nouns you know I'm from I'm for freedom I'm for liberty you know
[00:15:55] and family the end is very yeah family and legacy and the future is the children and stuff like that
[00:16:01] and politics is not a game of it's not about what you're for it's about how to do it
[00:16:09] everybody's for happiness everybody's for things being better everybody wants their families to be good
[00:16:15] but how do you achieve that how do you accomplish that and this film on that level I mean the fact
[00:16:21] that I'm even asking a question that is so ambitious is in some way a tribute to the film exactly that's
[00:16:27] what's so complicated about talking about it it's really insane I just want to briefly mention
[00:16:32] that I think Shia LaBeouf is giving his all in this character gets shot in the ass by Robert
[00:16:39] John Voigt I mean he has he's going through a lot here
[00:16:44] yeah another example of where a producer might have said you know Google Shia before we
[00:16:50] go ahead with that casting exactly you know there is some luggage here and as there is with John
[00:16:55] Voigt and I think that Coppola completely doesn't care oh no absolutely no nor should he no
[00:17:01] nor should he necessarily you know someone could be again you know I can disagree with people
[00:17:06] and still love their art which was quite poignant at the press conference where he did call out John
[00:17:12] Voigt for having completely different politics them himself and they still managed to really
[00:17:18] praise each other for their you know long collaboration and so I mean in that sense
[00:17:24] absolutely and that and that says it should be in a way I mean I find Voigt's political
[00:17:30] opinions absolutely reprehensible but um but you know he's always going to be
[00:17:35] in midnight cowboy he's always going to be great in heat you know so or Ray Donovan or whatever
[00:17:42] you'll pick your favorite there's a massive catalog of work there I love Shia LaBeouf I thought he
[00:17:47] thought he was wonderful in this and I thought he and Aubrey Plaza really got the got the tone
[00:17:54] of the film right if you're gonna be in this movie you have to go completely over the top
[00:17:59] yeah with whatever role you're playing and they really do in a great way strangely I thought Adam
[00:18:06] Driver was the most at sea I thought he was being asked to do too many things and he wasn't really
[00:18:13] he wasn't really certain and he's kind of got this unofficial job as the sort of pity tour
[00:18:19] of old filmmakers accomplishing their their dream project you know he did Michael Mansfarrari
[00:18:24] Don Quixote, Terry Gilliam now this silence with Martin Scorsese and it just maybe feels like
[00:18:32] Adam Driver I could kind of see see a bit less of him you know in this in this sort of role it's
[00:18:40] it didn't um yeah he he convinced me the least I think of and I forget the actress's name
[00:18:49] who played Julia which again maybe yeah yeah maybe telling of her performance as well I mean she
[00:18:57] had a thankless role that's another thing to say him Coppola thinking about this since the 80s is
[00:19:05] Coppola is ultimately a man of the well I mean there's you could even go back to the argument
[00:19:12] that he's been thinking about this since the 50s because there was a very 50s feel to it I
[00:19:17] mentioned in in Rand earlier and you know he lives in and the price was in visuals yeah
[00:19:24] the chrome, the art deco, the feel of his office and everything looks like it's from the
[00:19:30] and the attitudes to women aren't particularly all the women have pretty thankless roles in the film
[00:19:36] I mean they're there to serve the narrative yeah and all the plazas platinum wow
[00:19:44] wow platinum sorry uh what a wonderful way that's Thomas Pinchon isn't it yeah it's fantastic so
[00:19:49] so great she's having fun and she's doing it well but I mean the character doesn't go
[00:19:56] many other places than wow platinum yeah yeah precisely precisely when you've got a name like
[00:20:02] that you need the well the performance certainly lives up to it but I would have liked to have
[00:20:07] sort of had her more in a narrative doing more interesting things all right last question
[00:20:12] are you happy that this may be Coppola's last film oh I definitely think it is his last film
[00:20:18] I don't think you're making a film and are you happy I mean yeah I mean it's better than Twixt
[00:20:23] you know and it's better than I don't know if I've even seen some of his very late ones or
[00:20:30] tetra and youth without youth so yeah I think this at least made some noise whereas I think
[00:20:37] Twixt people would be I don't think many people have seen that all and in fact it's very difficult to
[00:20:43] see it's not it doesn't seem to be available on streaming platforms or anything thank you so much
[00:20:48] John this was great and I'll talk to you again soon because you have a book coming out when is it
[00:20:54] coming out it's coming out in December uh it's a biography another great director and then biography
[00:20:59] of Terence Malick from the same thing yet Malick called uh sorry Coppola called
[00:21:04] Terence Malick the funniest man he ever knew so um yeah it's it's I'm very excited about that you'll
[00:21:09] be back on again thank you so much have a great camp you too Christina and here are some of the
[00:21:16] highlights from the press conference and what Francis Ford Coppola told us there here's Francis
[00:21:24] Ford Coppola on the themes of megalopolis and the political state in the U.S. because what's
[00:21:31] happening in America in our republic in our democracy is exactly how Rome lost their republic
[00:21:39] thousands of years ago so it's it's it's a real uh and you even see now in articles and in Saturday
[00:21:46] Night Live the parallel between modern America and Rome so we our politics has taken us to the
[00:21:53] point where we might lose our republic and and so it's it's not people who have it become
[00:22:00] politicians who are going to be the answer I feel it's the artists of America because
[00:22:06] artists the role of the artist is to illuminate contemporary life to shine light on it to be
[00:22:12] the headlights and and so to make art that does not illuminate contemporary contemporary art is
[00:22:19] is is like making a hamburger that you eat but has no nutrition in it which is also what's
[00:22:26] going on so so my my dream my hope is that it's the artists of our country who are going to in
[00:22:33] their work shine light on what's going on and allow the people to see it because you can't
[00:22:39] act on it if you can't see it here's coppola addressing how he owns his movie how he paid
[00:22:48] 120 million dollars of his own money for megalopolis and how we'll often go back and re-edit
[00:22:55] his movies well you know the the reason I often re-edit my films is because I own them
[00:23:04] I mean if you ask why do I own apocalypse now the answer is no one wanted it
[00:23:11] and and so when you own a movie you tend to think oh I understand it better uh I would
[00:23:18] never re-edit the conversation because I like the way it is I have edited other I never
[00:23:23] re-edited the godfather although there is a scene I might add someday so you know you don't know
[00:23:31] you know the the story the interesting story is you know you we are here in France uh
[00:23:38] when Catherine de Medici married the king of France she brought with her Leonardo da Vinci
[00:23:45] who came with 40 mules and all his apprentices and work but he brought one painting
[00:23:52] because he wasn't quite finished with it and of course that painting was the Mona Lisa which
[00:23:56] when he finished he gave as a gift to the king of France for being his host so I I I'll tell you
[00:24:03] I'll be here in 20 years I think uh if there's a way I can make the film a little better I will try
[00:24:18] but I know that I'm done with it because I've already started writing another film and
[00:24:23] that's a good sign that I've finished finally Coppola's sister and longtime collaborator actor
[00:24:32] Talia Scheier every day with my brother he made you go forward go forward take a risk
[00:24:42] he is creative courage he is this person this he is a visionary and you were visionary when you
[00:24:50] were nine I have to tell you you were a visionary when you were nine years old I was paralyzed
[00:24:56] that's that's true Francis had polio and at nine and during that period in time people people weren't
[00:25:04] weren't walking then and Francis decided he was going to walk that was every day for one year
[00:25:13] that was an act of courage but every day working with these great actors you made us
[00:25:18] come together and it's extraordinary you know I'm so proud to be an actor with all these actors
[00:25:25] you know sometimes you don't know why why it's so tough it's so hard to get a job and then you
[00:25:32] come on a set with Francis and you work with these great actors I mean you're changed it is the
[00:25:37] future you do go forward when you're with Francis you go forward thank you so much for joining
[00:25:46] me again for this dispatch from the 2024 Cannes Film Festival thank you so much to John Blisdale
[00:25:53] and thank you for listening please follow along on pop culture confidential wherever you get your
[00:25:59] podcasts pop culture confidential is a part of the Evergreen podcast network see you next time
[00:26:07] my name is Cindy Burnett and each week I interview at least two traditionally published
[00:26:11] authors on my podcast thoughts from a page we talk spoiler free about their books so you can
[00:26:16] listen whether you have read the book or not and then we delve into things that you most likely
[00:26:20] won't hear about anywhere else the importance of the cover design why they included various aspects
[00:26:26] of the story personal details about both the books and the author's lives and so much more
[00:26:30] you can find the podcast on every major platform and learn more about it on my website
[00:26:35] thoughtsfrommypage.com thanks so much for checking it out