When Politics and Ideology Create Rifts in Friendships and Family Ties

[00:00:00] You're listening to the Quint's Podcast.

[00:00:10] Hello everyone, this is Not Fine Thanks, Quint fits podcast on everyday mental health

[00:00:15] and I'm your host Anushka.

[00:00:17] Hey what's up?

[00:00:18] How are you?

[00:00:19] Work is so stressful ya.

[00:00:20] Man, I feel like I'm wasting my youth.

[00:00:22] She like a just can't sustain relationships.

[00:00:27] Not Fine.

[00:00:28] Thanks.

[00:00:29] Today's topic is something that I wanted to talk about for a while now.

[00:00:35] We are talking about how to deal with politics and ideologies, putting a strain on your friendships

[00:00:40] and family relations.

[00:00:42] It's not a new issue per se.

[00:00:44] People have had disagreements over ideologies for ages now but I feel like this is something

[00:00:50] that I've heard people around me complain about, lament about increasingly now and maybe

[00:00:56] it's because they didn't consider how emotionally draining something like this could be and

[00:01:00] also they just don't know how to deal with it.

[00:01:03] So I'm here with friends and colleagues Zija, Satya, Shri and Summer.

[00:01:07] They work here at the Quint and they have strong opinions and today they're here to talk

[00:01:12] about their own stories of navigating the tricky space.

[00:01:17] And also in the second part of the podcast I will be speaking to writer and filmmaker

[00:01:20] Natasha Bhadwar.

[00:01:21] So do stick around for that as well.

[00:01:27] Right, so welcome guys, welcome to the podcast.

[00:01:30] Nice to be here.

[00:01:31] You guys want to begin by just kind of setting the context and talking about your situations.

[00:01:38] Do you experience this in your dining rooms, in your homes with your family chat groups

[00:01:44] with friends?

[00:01:45] And to what degree?

[00:01:47] I think the difference in ideologies exists like even if it's not always political or anything

[00:01:53] there's always going to be your elders thinking something else and you have a different opinion

[00:01:57] on it.

[00:01:58] Now the thing is that before you make friends and when you date someone and all of that

[00:02:02] you consider, I mean if the ideology matches or not and now the line is there's no gray

[00:02:09] area anymore like everybody's like very black and white about it.

[00:02:12] So one of my cousins we were chatting about the political scenarios and everything and

[00:02:18] he went to really praise this one leader, political leader.

[00:02:23] And I, we had like a very, I mean we had a lot of argument about it and now there's

[00:02:30] a point that whenever we are in a dining room together or anything of that sort we don't

[00:02:36] look like we don't look at each other.

[00:02:38] I mean we're like kind of maintaining the distance now and I didn't expect that to happen.

[00:02:43] I mean he's very elder to me and I would want to go to him and say hello and all of

[00:02:47] that but now it's like there's a lot of distance.

[00:02:50] Of course this also a very big issue because he's an elder person and all of that so he didn't

[00:02:56] expect me to be so opinionated and you know to tell him that no this is wrong this is not

[00:03:01] actually correct okay and call him out basically.

[00:03:04] What about you guys?

[00:03:06] Okay so I would just like to clarify in the beginning key like since we are talking about

[00:03:10] difference in ideologies I'm actually quite accepting of a difference in ideologies but

[00:03:16] in my opinion anybody who treats anybody else in a discriminatory manner that is where

[00:03:22] I draw the line and it is and it is and the reason why I connect this to politics so much

[00:03:27] because these days I don't think we should just judge people based on what they do because

[00:03:31] not everybody acts as they think you know are a lot of our family members we've seen how

[00:03:36] they talk about other communities but they won't really behave like that around them

[00:03:39] but if I won't really forgive them just for even thinking like that so that is where

[00:03:45] I belong at the moment.

[00:03:47] So what you're saying is like it does it's not just about which political party you support

[00:03:52] like how you support us for its differences it becomes a matter of your core morality

[00:03:56] that exactly have you guys ever like had fights to the point where you said that I cannot

[00:04:02] have this friendship anymore and had to like cut ties all the time and it's not just in

[00:04:07] opinion I have like practiced it like I used to have a friend who went to the US to study

[00:04:13] and he was fine when I said bye to him like we had a great family party he was okay like

[00:04:19] six months in he's like full on a Donald Trump supporter and I knew what that company is

[00:04:26] right like you can't just be a Trump supporter and not think in certain ways and I'm reading

[00:04:30] his post and the things he's saying and the things he's commenting on about what's happening

[00:04:34] in India and gradually I don't think he even realized it I just stopped calling him I stopped

[00:04:39] commenting on his photos etc and I think to an extent he was doing the same to me I don't

[00:04:44] know yeah initially I felt a little bad I was like oh do I really want to go down this

[00:04:50] path where I can't have an opinion and also a friend but later on I started feeling good

[00:04:54] about myself I started feeling a little proud key I'm putting my principles over my social

[00:05:00] needs which is my friends there's a colleague that you have to actually work with what will

[00:05:03] you do what will you do in sailing it I'll do whatever I'll do what I have to do like I still

[00:05:09] that also applies to family for a lot of people because they can't cut it out yeah you I okay

[00:05:15] huh I have plenty of people I disagree with in my family I just sit quietly I fake smile my way

[00:05:20] like though my difference and attitude towards them and towards others who I believe are much

[00:05:26] nicer people the difference is very obvious and I don't regret it I have a lot of people go like

[00:05:31] a lot of parents of my friends and everything we have address me like you people can come here

[00:05:37] so imagine that so I have been that to me and so during C.A. I think that was the worst thing that my

[00:05:47] identity was reduced to Biryani and that was the only somebody told me that you going to stay

[00:05:53] in this country because the Jage Ghar Sachi go Biryani Bhanna needs a question imagine hearing

[00:05:56] that and choosing to remain friends with such a person I try to have a conversation with that

[00:06:00] person try to understand he that person still on my social media but we don't talk anymore because

[00:06:05] like it was pretty clear where I stood and where he was standing and he he was really trying to

[00:06:11] calm me down by saying don't worry nothing will happen but the thing that happens is like you find

[00:06:17] about this particular thing after a really long time like you after when you meet someone for

[00:06:23] the first time they're always nice and everything but then when you talk to them at length and these

[00:06:28] issues these things don't come up in the first conversation right so after a while you just feel

[00:06:33] betrayed you're like oh my god yeah what is this and that's when you that's when you decide

[00:06:37] when you meet so when you have these conflicts say with especially people who are who you're close to

[00:06:43] people you've grown up with people who have an important place in your life otherwise but there's

[00:06:47] something that you don't agree with ideology wise or you know something like you said your

[00:06:52] morality don't add something that doesn't go with your core morality how does that kind of impact

[00:06:59] your mental health you did mention how you feel betrayed so if you want to elaborate on that or

[00:07:03] betrayal is one because you don't know that this person is going to be like that second is I am

[00:07:08] somebody who would really try to make the other person understand because if I love them

[00:07:13] the early and even if it's just a guy or anything of that sort so I would try to turn it around and

[00:07:19] try actually make efforts to either I cannot be okay with it but then try to find a midway

[00:07:26] but in most cases that does not happen and that leaves you in a very bitter state because you really

[00:07:32] want this person in your life you really want to talk to them you really like them otherwise

[00:07:36] but then you know these are the there are some things that you're not okay with I mean

[00:07:41] I try to actually date this guy who was able to go and okay so he's like he's like he

[00:07:48] never says whatever the government is doing xyz I'm on the ground and I meet people and I do this

[00:07:54] that I do that and I don't look at somebody and ask their religion and that's how we get work

[00:07:59] done and on the ground nobody really ask and look for everybody's religion but actually on the

[00:08:04] ground people are getting killed for the religion so how can you not really care or you know

[00:08:09] everything of that sort but then I try to do it but it just kind of you just want that person

[00:08:16] to be sensitive to these things when you're hanging out with say people who don't care or are

[00:08:21] apolitical yeah do you ever feel like maybe you are overreacted they kind of make you feel like

[00:08:27] why I try that is the reason I tried I tried I tried hang out with this guy for two months okay two

[00:08:33] months is a long time yeah and I try to understand through his lens also the other thing about

[00:08:39] him apart from being apolitical was that he was not woke at all and I thought initially I thought

[00:08:45] I found that in the earing that you know now that nowadays you find people who are very

[00:08:50] they know about everything they know the right words and this and that this person did not know a lot

[00:08:55] of things he did not know what queer is he's a 27 year old boy she should know but the fact that

[00:09:00] he didn't be still different yeah yeah but then the but then later when he asked me okay what is

[00:09:05] this and everything but then when he told me that he was making fun of the term he was making fun of

[00:09:10] LGBTQ people on his grow and he was the fact that he was telling me all of this is where I drew

[00:09:15] the line I was like okay I can't do it but then it did impact me I was like okay this is a really

[00:09:19] nice guy they have a really nice time with him and but I cannot have a conversation with this person

[00:09:25] so it does something you mentioned you have cut off a lot of people over this so how how has that

[00:09:30] kind of I'm sure it is it used to affect me a lot okay I'll tell you see the to me not being friends

[00:09:37] with somebody who treats people discriminatively is more acceptable than me not being friends with them

[00:09:47] and my mental health like taking a toll on it and to be honest I think at the stage where I am

[00:09:53] right now my mental health will take more of a toll if I continue to remain friends with somebody

[00:09:57] who thinks like that that is where I am so you're able to rationalize and make that happen because

[00:10:01] I just have a super strong like everything else I just have a super strong opinion on this

[00:10:06] a relative who so this was when I was studying abroad but this was the time when CA and RC had

[00:10:14] just been introduced and one relative had sent like I don't know was half a joke half a meme what

[00:10:22] it was nobody knows but the message was Kio this is how you sort of discipline the the

[00:10:29] terrible remains in this country so of course as you are the memes we're gonna talk about a

[00:10:33] bunch of things but for my own family member to share it on a WhatsApp group which has like 22

[00:10:37] people I exploded and I drive took out my laptop I drafted it on Google Docs it was like a 250

[00:10:44] word message which concluded with key if this is your if this is what your attitude is going to be

[00:10:48] then count me out and I sent that whole message immediately my mom texted me on the side saying

[00:10:54] calm down please don't do this my mommy texted me on the sides you look I am on your side I

[00:10:59] understand you just ignored if you're not gonna say who's gonna say no somebody had turned out this is

[00:11:05] why if I am the one I have to be that villain in the family who sort of compromises on the larger good

[00:11:12] unlike the intra family peace with my political imposition so be it I can be the villain but

[00:11:18] you know honestly I but not everybody can afford to do that I have been you okay I've been

[00:11:23] this person and I just realized that it's just where people just start to view you in that frame

[00:11:30] in that bracket okay this person is very political or this person is very hardcore this and

[00:11:35] ex-faisy so you become a stereotype you know people don't want to have that have any conversation

[00:11:41] with you at all so I have been that person and I have gone through that whole thing that you know

[00:11:46] people don't they they're scared of engaging with the me anymore and they're not saying anything to

[00:11:51] me now speaking of what's up I just want to talk also about social media because we're all media

[00:11:56] people here we kind of feel it first hand also so when you see like so earlier we didn't know

[00:12:03] what people's political leanings were what their standings were unless you had a deep conversation

[00:12:08] about politics with them and you could have a surface level friendship or like a good pleasant

[00:12:14] you know relation with people but now because of social media and everything is everybody's constantly

[00:12:20] you know putting out their opinions you know where everyone's like they carry their labels with

[00:12:24] them right yeah so I see social media like it's it's a great way of actually finding what the other

[00:12:33] person thinks because I mean I like to share this example that one of my cousin relative ex-faisy

[00:12:41] so whenever we meet him he's all like oh my sister this and that and he's like very sweet very

[00:12:46] welcoming and you know harmless in person and I mean it's not just about politics but then I mean

[00:12:53] I don't care about his political leaning but he's misogynist AF yeah and he would post about

[00:12:58] such thing he's homophobic and I see that on social media he would be sharing all those reuse

[00:13:03] he'd be sharing and he'd be writing his opinion about a lot of things and I'm like this is a different

[00:13:08] person this is not this person that I know and now I know I have to distance myself with him I mean

[00:13:14] if he comes to hug me or kiss me on the cheek I'm like no that is not happening that is wrong

[00:13:18] I mean I want to try to change his mind huh what do you try to change his mind I would want to have

[00:13:23] a conversation and I have had certain conversations with him like when you are when I did not know

[00:13:28] of his what like how to the to which extent he's homophobic or misogynist and I've had those kind

[00:13:35] of conversations but then I'm telling you in person if you are talking to him he will agree with you

[00:13:40] right he's that kind of a person he'd be like yeah you're right I've had a different like when

[00:13:45] we sit together we have all those kind of conversations and he always agrees so when I see this

[00:13:50] on social media I'm like who is this person one example is dating sites also you have that filter

[00:13:59] on dating apps also where people want to know what your political in is as well yeah I've been

[00:14:05] on dating apps for long enough to remember there was a time when Tinder did not ask for political

[00:14:09] affiliations and to think that now Tinder bumble hinge all these apps sort of the fact that now they do

[00:14:17] or at least they give us that option and at least a lot of people who I go through they have

[00:14:23] clicked on one of those options they haven't skipped it of course dating apps is just a

[00:14:28] mini-skool part of social media but it goes on to show that people's expectations have changed

[00:14:33] I have like a question to us so for example if you're sitting with three of your very close friends

[00:14:38] or two of your very close friends and you say something or maybe use a word which is

[00:14:44] politically incorrect or which is a slur but you're not using as a slur but you just saying it so

[00:14:49] if a friend says that to you will you call them out or will you say don't use it in front of me or

[00:14:54] you just let it go because it's between 100% I'll call them out 100% because these slurs at least the

[00:15:01] ones I can think of that are flying through my head right now these slurs are always directed at

[00:15:05] a particular community yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

[00:15:08] or a sub cast or things like that what if the intent is not there and it can never not be dead no so

[00:15:14] this happens a lot right like among friends we have to have we can't be completely intolerant like

[00:15:21] I mean how yeah you say six out of me if we are there and we abuse we tolerate that for the

[00:15:26] yeah so because when you're with friends sitting you know what the dynamic is with that friend you

[00:15:34] know what they're and you know that I have to be lying basically right right but believing in

[00:15:40] that is something worse right like that's where we draw the line yeah yeah but in this case like

[00:15:44] if you're with friends and you know that your friend doesn't believe in it like it's they're just

[00:15:48] using it but can't we kind of lie the same to head speech then people let us give head speech

[00:15:52] side may I get they can say I don't believe in it I was no what a head speech that's why I said

[00:15:56] sitting with a friend in a room and all that I'm not saying you're not provoking anyone into action

[00:16:01] so there is a threshold of offense I'm just saying that with friends there needs to be

[00:16:07] I just meant that the level of intolerance should be certain I mean you need to understand if

[00:16:12] you know the other person like I'm talking about this best friend that you're sitting with right you

[00:16:16] know the other person you know the intent so you would let go I mean you will call out but then you

[00:16:21] will not hold it again you will not say bye and I think that matters again about uh core morality more

[00:16:26] than one word that they've said yeah you can call them out in that but core morality matters a lot

[00:16:31] more at the end of the day that's from saying like it's okay for you to think that a free market is

[00:16:35] better than state intervention all of them fine okay your economics might be better than mine

[00:16:39] but how can you say that falling in love with the same gender super it's not always that direct

[00:16:47] so this person would somebody's effeminate this person would call him a girl it's not so out

[00:16:51] and let's also say you you grow up so like are you ask me uh you know do I cut off people who I

[00:16:56] group I've got of a lot of people I've grown up with and especially because a couple of

[00:17:00] them are still and I okay I don't know who to blame maybe I blame their household or maybe I just

[00:17:04] blame their brains but they are still quite homophobic they you they use the words

[00:17:10] very like offensively me and I have not like I've frowned and I said can you not do that again

[00:17:16] and they're like no no need to be so touchy so so people like that I will cut off because like I said keep

[00:17:22] I not only do I have a problem with discriminatory behavior I have a problem with discriminatory thinking

[00:17:27] like if you think like that I'm not gonna accept you because you don't always act as you think

[00:17:32] right but even if you think in a way that puts other people down sorry okay just to like uh play

[00:17:38] the devil's advocate here like a lot of people especially let's just say people of like an older

[00:17:43] generation who have kind of grown up with certain language saying words that are no longer acceptable

[00:17:49] which were very acceptable during that time and they've not done that unlearning of you know

[00:17:54] going through that process of okay what is it I know a lot of people are ma'am.

[00:17:58] Yeah and and when you as a younger person especially in a family where you are like the younger

[00:18:02] person and it's like a mama cha cha or like a parent and you kind of tell them no this is wrong

[00:18:06] don't say this they take it as um like you're challenging there yeah yeah this is

[00:18:12] it's okay. So kind of how do you deal with that and also do you give them the benefit of

[00:18:20] um tk you don't know better or it's okay that you definitely give them benefit of doubt I try to

[00:18:25] make them understand I think I've come really far away with my mom with it because now if somebody

[00:18:30] says something you know uh use any any of those terms she would call them out and yeah and she

[00:18:36] would just say you know I think you should stop using this term because it's their getty so I

[00:18:41] think I've come with my mom it's okay but then I've tried to have this conversation and I'll just

[00:18:45] tell people you know don't say this it's a wrong term it's a slur or whatever xyz and if they don't

[00:18:51] agree with it and most of the times they don't agree they don't listen they're like barmaja

[00:18:55] so it's fine I think you can't really change that. I think that's very important like giving them

[00:18:59] the benefit of the doubt and um so that which is why we're able to make these really small small

[00:19:05] changes right I mean of course friends people we can ditch right parents family we cannot

[00:19:11] so I think of course like I'm proud of my parents because of this that they're open to listening

[00:19:17] and on the other hand you also have to not be condescending when you're either not just telling

[00:19:22] a colleague or friend or especially an elder person you can't be condescending you have to sort

[00:19:28] of explain it to them subtly and I don't know like my father is follows current affairs follows

[00:19:36] politics my mother is more of a religious person does not care as much what's going on like

[00:19:40] my father used to support a political party that I don't support at all and he was on our different

[00:19:48] side of the spectrum and what time I used to basically earlier tell him that you know this has

[00:19:53] happened this has happened and he will tell me that religion being used to spread hatred is not

[00:19:57] something new and this all of these things that are happening student movements being crushed down

[00:20:04] is not something new um and it has happened before and you shouldn't call out the leader for

[00:20:12] all of this but I think over time because I kept saying this kept saying this he also started seeing

[00:20:18] the pattern and so much so that he's now like for the past few years like we are on the same page

[00:20:24] and a couple weeks ago on a family what not a family whats up the society whats up group

[00:20:30] this old name group of mine shared a very propaganda communal message and my father got really

[00:20:37] triggered by that in so much so that he called him out on the society whats up group

[00:20:42] wow key it's this is this is commonly propaganda whatever whatever and those who don't like

[00:20:50] I delete this message in one hour or I will leave this group so I don't think like threatening

[00:20:55] is the best way to go about it but like I was still proud of him that he at least called him out

[00:21:00] and others started calling him out after that and then propaganda messages like this have not come

[00:21:05] on that group so you were able to get through to him over a period of time like talk to him

[00:21:10] yeah but at the same time like I agree with Saptav for example that like I'm we all know it's really

[00:21:16] exhausting to try to engage with people and like change their mindset because some people are really

[00:21:23] I mean they're not going to listen to logic or reason a great example like when we're saying not

[00:21:28] engaging with people but your father did in a correct way and it stopped right so I mean somewhere

[00:21:35] you will have to engage I mean if we all will feel that way exhausted because I just want to give

[00:21:41] example of this one person he is basically a protest artist so he always tells me about how he's

[00:21:46] friends with people what totally against his ideology because he believes in coming out of that

[00:21:52] eco-chember and having that conversation and reaching out to people who don't agree and really

[00:21:57] converting them so I'm sure I mean I don't think it's easy for him as well like have this person come

[00:22:02] to his house and you know have these long discussions where you agree to disagree and still be friends

[00:22:10] with them because homily otherwise it's very easy you know yeah to be friends with and not really try

[00:22:16] like that but then this person I know who's trying and he has a lot of people like that so I know

[00:22:22] why we get exhausted but then this is a great example that you know yeah so change so friends I can

[00:22:27] teach a little side and on I'm here with Natasha Ghatvah she is a writer a journalist a film maker

[00:22:46] and she often writes very honest pieces about life in general but also politics her family

[00:22:53] life friendships and so forth so I thought it would be really interesting to get her inputs on the

[00:22:58] subject that we're talking about today thank you so much for being here Natasha it's such a pleasure

[00:23:03] to have you here thank you Anushka it's lovely to be with you today so I was having a conversation

[00:23:09] with a couple of my friends about how politics and ideologies impact your relationship with your

[00:23:16] friends and your families and how it can cause rifts with people that you love and this issue

[00:23:22] has really come to the surface in the last few years not just in India but the world over and

[00:23:27] people have talked about how they've struggled with navigating the situation and also dealing

[00:23:33] with the mental and emotional drainage that they feel because of this to begin with can you tell

[00:23:39] me a little bit about if you see this happening around you as well yeah it's it's really quite shocking

[00:23:46] what a polarized world we live in and how it's just seems to be slipping you know away from our hands

[00:23:56] I mean it's 2022 now and at least for the last say maybe eight years or 10 years we've been

[00:24:05] experiencing this electrically not only in our relationships but in our with our own extended

[00:24:13] social group each one of you knows what is alive what is the truth but we're just living in a time

[00:24:20] where it's absolutely okay to to just shoot off this information to say to say pigitated things

[00:24:29] and and nobody will call you out for that and it's absolutely crazy trying to maintain

[00:24:37] relationships in this time in trying to raise children and so when you have this kind of a

[00:24:44] disagreement or how do you deal with say somebody that's very close to you that you've known for

[00:24:50] a very long time who's important to you in your life and they say something say a really misogynist

[00:24:55] take or anything that doesn't kind of match with your core morality I've heard people say I feel

[00:25:01] betrayed because I feel a sense of disappointment because I've known this person and loved this person

[00:25:06] for so long but then they come out and say something like this so how do you navigate or deal with

[00:25:11] the situation like that within your families and you know it's friends if we know how social

[00:25:18] hierarchies are I mean you can be you can you can be a grown up professional but if you're you know

[00:25:24] within uncle or an aunt in the family you still have to kind of nod your head and agree with things

[00:25:30] that they're saying but but I refused to allow that to become bigger than it had to be and

[00:25:37] literally I would just leave I leave WhatsApp groups I am not in my school WhatsApp group I'm

[00:25:44] not in my family WhatsApp group we constantly know everybody's political standings on anything

[00:25:50] that happens in the world through status updates or stories I just want to get your thoughts on how

[00:25:56] much do you think social media really plays a role and also deepening these it has it has

[00:26:02] actually increased the rift to a large extent it is true that you know people's presence on social

[00:26:11] media particularly WhatsApp and this kind of blind forwarding of things this seems to be the

[00:26:20] blind spot of so many people it's heartbreaking you know I won't deny that it's it's it's

[00:26:26] saps your energy it breaks your heart and and then you think to yourself what am I going to do

[00:26:34] am I going to move about it or am I going to see where am I placed in my life what are the privileges

[00:26:42] I have what is the way in which I can counter this in some way and and I see there are a lot of people

[00:26:51] are trying to do that I may just the fact that you're recording a podcast

[00:26:56] there are different generations but we are having a conversation about this because we

[00:27:01] feel the hurt collectively so you know one of the things I pretty consciously tried to do was to

[00:27:10] not allow a bigotry from the real world to necessarily infiltrate my online spaces

[00:27:23] and I can't say that I've been successful at it but I can't say that it's something that I almost

[00:27:29] kind of forced thoughts so on my Facebook I blocked the kind of people within my family

[00:27:37] and from my school group or muted them if they were you know just going to be blatantly anti-minority

[00:27:45] anti-women and and anti-pour and you know just very authoritarian in the kind of views expressed

[00:27:54] because these are people I've known in real life they don't talk like that they didn't grow up

[00:27:59] speaking like this and certainly they on the online space the anonymity of it or the

[00:28:06] groupism of it seem to be giving them some kind of confidence and I said to myself I'm just going

[00:28:12] to keep it separate I may be forced to be polite to this person in a social situation but I don't

[00:28:19] have to allow this to come into my Instagram my Twitter my Facebook or even my WhatsApp I am not

[00:28:26] obliged in an absolutely new place to follow the rules of social obligations and and

[00:28:35] to a certain extent it helped me keep my own headspace clean it helped me to have a space in my life

[00:28:45] where I could fearlessly express my own self as an adult you know and and and I found that it didn't

[00:28:56] necessarily isolate me I found that it helped in many ways to separate the grain from the shaft in a

[00:29:04] way you know people who want to stay in touch with you or who want you to know that they're not

[00:29:11] actually agreeing with those they don't speak up against they find other ways of getting in touch

[00:29:17] with you and it may seem like your world's becoming smaller but in many ways your connections become

[00:29:24] much more authentic and also if you don't mind getting a little personal I mean you have an

[00:29:31] interface marriage so I wanted to ask you was that ever a matter of contention with your family

[00:29:36] extended family were there people you had to convince reason with yeah I do have an

[00:29:42] interface marriage my husband's a Muslim I am from a Hindu family and we have three children

[00:29:47] and we got married in 2002 it was the year of the violence in Gujarat the pogrom in Gujarat

[00:29:56] we are still seeing the repercussions of that violence but to be honest you know India is a

[00:30:01] country of arranged marriages right so you don't necessarily have to choose somebody

[00:30:06] beyond your faith you're just the actor falling in love of making your own choice of even going

[00:30:12] a slightly outside of your cast or your economic class or just expressing agency to choose your own

[00:30:22] partner can set off a series of reactions in the extended family so sure there was there was

[00:30:28] opposition there was a sense that we ourselves had about whether you know people who we love and

[00:30:36] respect would be able to deal with this we didn't want to hurt anyone but it was not a difficult

[00:30:42] decision at all and either for us not for our immediate family not you know not for our parents I do

[00:30:47] remember that there's a particular aunt who lives abroad who would be seeing the news coming out

[00:30:54] from India and at that time and she said what are you doing there will be riots you will be the

[00:31:00] target of violence and this is 2002 and we thought you know she's just being little neurotic but

[00:31:06] I do remember that moment I remember that with with so much agony and remorse that we have actually

[00:31:14] come to a point 20 years down the line where young people marrying or falling in love across

[00:31:21] faiths are being targeted if we can't anymore deny that it is actually a very dangerous

[00:31:27] thing for a Hindu to fall in love with the Muslim for a Hindu to befriend a Muslim.

[00:31:32] Also when you talked about friendships I mean this is something that just happens in such a

[00:31:38] passing way in families like if you have say a friend from a community that your family doesn't

[00:31:43] really agree with and they will pass comments about your friend based on stereotypes based on

[00:31:48] their preconceived notion and it can be really hurtful for a child or a person to hear about their

[00:31:55] friend we talk like that from parents people who they hold in high regard you know the mental health

[00:32:01] aspect also comes into it where it can be quite distressing emotionally right when you've

[00:32:05] kind of balance between the two absolutely Anushka you know I have no doubt that our young people today

[00:32:12] you know they have internalized conflict and they are living with a with an dissonance that is way

[00:32:20] beyond something that I grew up with. You talked about how you didn't want to hurt people in

[00:32:25] your family so you were also trying to kind of find that balance so a lot of people I spoke to

[00:32:31] also talked about the way they approach it as either they don't talk about it at all like which

[00:32:35] family members especially the close family of close friends who are very important to them they

[00:32:40] won't talk about this one thing because they don't agree upon it and they don't want to address

[00:32:44] it or they will debate them they will you know try to have a discussion with them which can lead

[00:32:50] to a lot of conflict and bitterness or they choose to cut people off like I mentioned cut people

[00:32:56] off on social media leave family groups or stop talking to people because they just can't reconcile

[00:33:01] where their way of thinking you know we kind of tend to have this position of I am right and the

[00:33:06] other side cannot be reasoned with and I don't want to put in the effort because I know they can't

[00:33:10] you know you can't get through to them but I'm also wondering is not engaging really the right way

[00:33:15] to go about it is that really helpful when it comes to especially family and friends yeah no um

[00:33:22] you I mean I think you're asking a really really important question and you're in a way you're

[00:33:26] making a very important point not engaging is not going to get us anywhere you know cutting people off

[00:33:32] just isolating ourselves in like among like-minded people is not going to solve any problem protecting my

[00:33:40] online spaces particularly my WhatsApp what it helps me to do is conserve my energy

[00:33:47] what it helps me to do is not have to deal with the micro aggression of everyday forward so that

[00:33:54] when I meet the same people socially they know what what I what my political ideology is I know

[00:34:01] what there is but I'm not bogged down I'm not overwhelmed by by the nonsense that if being spewed on

[00:34:08] an everyday basis and I find that I have the energy to look them in the eye to be able to connect with

[00:34:13] them to to stay to stay together and um I do have cousins who you know who have been uh very

[00:34:22] bigoted in their online expression and by not engaging with them in the online space I find

[00:34:27] that I'm able to engage with them in the offline space I find that people know they come and engage

[00:34:32] with me when they need me by not engaging on a day-to-day basis with each other's polarized opinions

[00:34:39] I think we've saved that space somehow I don't want to lose my friendships and my relationships

[00:34:46] I want uh that space to exist where uh where we can go beyond this all and and still find things

[00:34:54] that uh we hold in common

[00:35:05] thank you so much for joining me on this podcast today this is the last episode of the series

[00:35:11] so I want to give a hearty thank you to everybody who's been on the podcast as well as everyone

[00:35:16] who has been tuning in to listen to all the other wonderful podcasts that we have in store for you

[00:35:21] do follow us on Spotify and other podcast platforms and do follow Quinn fit for more health

[00:35:27] and mental health related stories