The Next Best Series Podcast: Episode 41 - First Emmy Predictions, "Baby Reindeer," "Shōgun," "Fallout," "Ripley" & "Sugar"

[00:00:00] and the Emmy goes to Breaking Back

[00:00:08] The Crown

[00:00:14] Hello and welcome to the Next Best Series Podcast

[00:00:18] where we take a break from talking about movies to talk about television.

[00:00:23] Part of the Next Best Picture Podcast umbrella

[00:00:26] I am your host Matt Nagli of the Time Reporting, 9.05pm on April 24th, 2024

[00:00:33] Here to join me for this episode I have Giovanni Lago

[00:00:38] Hello Hello

[00:00:39] And I'm Sasek

[00:00:42] Hello

[00:00:43] Emma

[00:00:44] Matthew

[00:00:45] What have you been watching? You are so busy, I don't know when you have time to watch things.

[00:00:52] I don't know either but I somehow have managed to try to keep up with as much stuff as possible thankfully.

[00:00:59] We share this in common I find.

[00:01:01] Yes, in times when my brain is just oozing out of my head it's usually TV time.

[00:01:07] Seriously, well we are in that stage right now where we are starting to gear up for the real Emmy award season.

[00:01:18] The last time that we were here we talked about contenders that had done pretty alright so far at the previous televised precursors.

[00:01:27] Some of those winners will carry over many others will not such as beef succession those are completely done at this point.

[00:01:36] But there are other shows like The Crown, Elizabeth Debicki cleaned up this precursor season and The Bear also did really well.

[00:01:45] It will be in contention too.

[00:01:47] But we just recently released our first batch of Emmy nomination predictions.

[00:01:53] They are up on nexbestpicture.com where you can check them out right now.

[00:01:57] We are going to give some commentary on that.

[00:01:59] We are going to talk about what we have been watching and we are going to answer some fan questions that we received for this episode.

[00:02:05] So why don't we first start off with what everyone has been watching.

[00:02:09] Giovanni, since the last time you were here on the show I know that you have been trying to cram a lot in.

[00:02:15] I myself admitted I was failing miserably with television catch up and now I feel like I'm starting to get on track a little bit.

[00:02:23] I'm definitely putting a couple of shows under my belt here.

[00:02:28] But Emma we'll start off with you actually because like I said I feel like I never talked to you about television.

[00:02:34] I don't know what you've been watching.

[00:02:36] So girl tell us what have you been watching?

[00:02:38] I know.

[00:02:39] I very rarely ever really share my thoughts on TV but I'm going to start doing a little bit more of that because there have been some very cool shows coming out.

[00:02:47] Also way too many shows coming out at the same time which makes it, it makes you constantly feel like you're so far behind on everything.

[00:02:54] But I've been trying to give everything at least a bit of a chance.

[00:02:58] So I have like two categories of things I'm watching.

[00:03:02] Those that I have definitely gotten super into and I've watched several episodes of and those where I'm just starting the journey with them with maybe like an episode or two.

[00:03:11] But among those that I have really kept up with as I'm sure we'll all talk about baby reindeer.

[00:03:17] I have been binging that the last few days and I mean I just thought that I was in for like a funny quirky little show but it takes me, takes you on so many different turns.

[00:03:31] Many of them very dark and very traumatic.

[00:03:35] But I think all of that somehow blends so well on this show.

[00:03:41] And I just genuinely have been enjoying it for the few episodes that I've seen already so far.

[00:03:51] The actor, Richard Gad, I mean he is brilliant from an acting standpoint but also writing standpoint too.

[00:04:00] I like that this all really did happen to him is quite terrifying when you, I guess, realize that part of it too.

[00:04:10] And then his lovely but also very equally terrifying co-star Jessica Gunning is just crazy brilliant on the show too.

[00:04:21] So I've definitely been enjoying that one.

[00:04:24] I've seen a couple of episodes of Ripley and I'm still a little bit on the fence about that show.

[00:04:34] I think it looks pretty great.

[00:04:37] I like the black and white cinematography.

[00:04:39] I've been enjoying the acting but there's just something about it where, I don't know,

[00:04:45] I'm not really like the editing of the show so much and I think that there are a lot of random shots,

[00:04:52] like way too many random shots in each episode that kind of makes me like roll my eyes and be like,

[00:04:58] just give me the one straightforward angle.

[00:05:01] I don't need like 15 different angles of one scene or one sequence to be showing constantly over and over again.

[00:05:08] So that's kind of been getting a little bit on my nerves but I will do anything for Andrew Scott.

[00:05:15] I know that a few more episodes have come out about from the show already but under the bridge with Riley Keough and Lily Gladstone really enticed me right away with the first two episodes.

[00:05:27] And especially where the second episode ended off as it relates to a mystery surrounding a young girl in this town,

[00:05:38] I was just really transfixed by the mood and the moodiness that is set in this film and just kind of how everybody's a little shady and suspicious and I don't really know what to make of them.

[00:05:52] I've been really enjoying that so far so probably after we finish recording this episode, I'll probably watch the next two episodes or however many are out right now.

[00:06:02] And then some other shows that I have seen at least one episode of include Mary and George, which stars Julianne Moore and Nicholas G.

[00:06:13] I don't really know what his last name is but it's kind of giving me the favorite vibes.

[00:06:20] Very much a historical drama but very messy and I do always enjoy that subgenre of historical dramas.

[00:06:29] I watched the first episode of Fallout and that one also intrigued me.

[00:06:34] I never played the video game so I didn't really know anything going into the show but I have been enjoying the lead actress who was also on yellow jackets for some time.

[00:06:46] And I thought that she was a very cool badass heroine so far.

[00:06:51] And then I just kind of fell off a little bit with shows like One Day and Mr. and Mrs. Smith but I'm sure that I will eventually get back into them once I have some breathing room and free time in my life after a very crazy and tumultuous month that I have had.

[00:07:08] But yeah, that's more or less what I've seen.

[00:07:11] I try to have had a good mixture of things to go watch and put on in the background.

[00:07:19] So a couple of things here.

[00:07:21] Mary and George.

[00:07:23] His name is Nicholas Gillett scene and he's also in this movie with Anne Hathaway called The Idea of You.

[00:07:30] Yes.

[00:07:31] I think this guy, I feel like he's already blowing up just not in the circles that I'm a part of because I'm looking at his filmography and he's been in Cinderella and he's also been in red, white and royal blue.

[00:07:45] So I imagine he's probably very popular with a younger crowd is my guess.

[00:07:50] But I do think that he has an aura about him, especially after seeing him and the idea of you that I can see his career is like probably really starting to really take off in a major way right now.

[00:08:01] Yeah, he's one of the younger Hollywood men who along with like Jacob Elordi for example, I feel like is really getting more and more out there and getting more roles.

[00:08:13] Right.

[00:08:14] So I've started a bridge.

[00:08:15] I have not had a chance to watch this quite yet.

[00:08:18] How does it compare to something like Mara Vistown or True Detective?

[00:08:23] I guess probably, I think that there are definitely similarities with that.

[00:08:29] I think that there is more of an aura of mystery with this one compared to those others.

[00:08:35] I do have to admit, I have only seen the first season of True Detective so I don't know what the rest of the iterations of it have been like but yeah, there's just something, it was just really striking to me where I couldn't immediately like put my finger on everybody in this town nor the situation itself

[00:08:55] and it does a really good job of misdirecting you within those first two episodes.

[00:09:00] So I think that's what really hooked me into it and I mean, of course Riley Keoh and Lily Gladstone.

[00:09:06] I'm happily watching anything with the two of them in it.

[00:09:10] Now maybe a better comparison then would be the other FX Hulu show that came out.

[00:09:16] I believe it was two years ago under the banner of heaven with Andrew Garfield.

[00:09:21] I never read a show.

[00:09:22] Yeah, I never had a chance to watch that one but I did hear really good things about it.

[00:09:26] That was a great show but I don't know how that show did not land with the Emmys that year besides like Andrew Garfield because like Isabelle Sandoval deserved a directing nomination for that show and Daisy Edgar Jones was great.

[00:09:39] Sam Worthington probably gives like his career best performance in that show.

[00:09:43] He is terrifying in that show, Wyatt Russell's great.

[00:09:47] Really wish that one was given a lot more love by the television.

[00:09:51] Yeah, I'm just trying to I guess put my finger on like what kind of a show under the bridge is essentially.

[00:09:58] I'm going to watch it no matter what.

[00:10:00] I've been hearing such great things about it but yeah, just trying to find that comparison out there for it.

[00:10:06] Yeah, I guess I would.

[00:10:08] I guess kind of like a mayor of Easttown but no dialect or no accent work necessarily.

[00:10:16] Gotcha.

[00:10:17] Alright, Gio what about you? I know you've been watching too much.

[00:10:24] Yeah, it's starting to catch up to the mental.

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[00:11:41] Last night, Shogun came to an end.

[00:11:44] It did, yes. I got caught up in time for it.

[00:11:48] Yes, I'm very happy. You actually got caught up before I did because I was just so busy with other stuff that I spent like the past weekend watching 7 through 9

[00:11:58] where everything starts ramping up and no spoilers but I think...

[00:12:03] I know it follows the book pretty accurately, but as someone who doesn't read the book and I think the show has gotten such ab comparisons to Game of Thrones and Scale

[00:12:12] and I think it does do that. But the finale, if you go in with that mindset really subverts that idea.

[00:12:19] And it's really understated and incredibly poignant and the way it looks on how sorrow and regret and all these ambitions collide with one another

[00:12:31] and the anticipation for war is not always the greatest thing.

[00:12:36] And I saw some people complain, well why didn't the show like the Giant Battle? Why didn't this happen?

[00:12:42] Why didn't they do something extravagant? I feel like if you were really hampering on that you didn't really get the series

[00:12:49] especially there's a beautiful sequence on the cliff side with the Hiro Nuki Sonata

[00:12:54] and I'm forgetting the actor's name who plays Yashiba who by the way probably the best performers in the show.

[00:13:00] That's my hot take. I think the guy who plays Yashiba is the best. Every mannerism, every grunt, every time he's reacting with the Anjin it's fantastic.

[00:13:11] I think...

[00:13:13] I'm going to counter you on this really quick because I think the best performance on the show is Anna Sawai as Mariko Same.

[00:13:25] Oh my god.

[00:13:26] Yeah.

[00:13:27] Incredible.

[00:13:28] That's the kind of showcase. Yeah, episode 9 when she has that grand moment.

[00:13:32] The whole episode from top to bottom not just even a single moment like the whole thing is her showcase and I was so mesmerized.

[00:13:41] I've been mesmerized by her throughout the entire series but when she got that episode it was like oh my god

[00:13:48] I think that this is a true breakout moment for her in particular because she only has two film credits.

[00:13:56] Her television credits are also a little slim but she has recently been in Pachinko, Marnock, Legacy of Monsters and now this.

[00:14:06] I think she's going to blow up as a result of her work on the show.

[00:14:10] I can see Abby nomination coming her way and really giving a boost to her rise as a star and more than deserved because Anna Sawai is brilliant in that show.

[00:14:21] And by the way, the actor who plays is Taro Nobuo Sano who is fantastic and he's just been in a bunch of these actors like Kirinuki Sonato just been in so many great things

[00:14:32] and just now they're getting their time to shine and I think that's just the cherry on top of what is probably will be one of my favorite shows of the year.

[00:14:40] And just so you know too, the actor's name is Taro Nobuo Sano and he was in Martin's Quarcesse's Silence.

[00:14:48] Yes and he's fantastic.

[00:14:50] Yeah I thought he too gave a great performance in the show too and especially in the finale like you said that cliffside scene that he has with Hiro Yuki Sonato the writing is really well done.

[00:15:00] It's so beautiful.

[00:15:01] It's beautifully filmed and I got to imagine you're making a really good point here just in terms of audience expectation.

[00:15:06] There was a lot of build up and anticipation to some sort of a giant spectacle episode of some sort and the show never delivers on that but I agree with your assessment that if you're disappointed by that or the show is ruined for you for that then I don't think that you,

[00:15:25] I agree with you.

[00:15:26] I don't think that you got what the show was offering in the first place and what I, this is actually what I liked about it in the end.

[00:15:33] Yes.

[00:15:34] I liked that it was more about these characters and how I don't want to give too much away here but let's just say Tornaga is playing a pretty long game here you know and I quite enjoyed that.

[00:15:48] Yeah and it comes at a cost.

[00:15:50] Like you know there's characters in the show like Tornaga son who was like, yeah let's go to war let's fight and he's just throughout the whole time is like you don't get what this means like you don't get what comes as the cost of just going head first into this like and you see that Tornaga avoiding spoilers by the end he is playing this long game and he does fully open up about his true intentions but it's not like those true intentions came easy they came at some of like the greatest cost for him.

[00:16:20] But it's beautiful work and Cosimo Jarvis also the finale is like his best episode as well.

[00:16:25] It's all around fantastic television.

[00:16:28] Yeah, I wouldn't say it's the best thing I've seen this year but it's definitely up there for sure.

[00:16:33] And I know what you think is the best thing you've seen this year because Matt for you and this podcast I put into work I sat down and I watched all the baby rain.

[00:16:43] Oh you did.

[00:16:44] Oh my God.

[00:16:45] Yes I did.

[00:16:46] I didn't I when did you find the time.

[00:16:48] I started last night and I watched it like four in the morning and then I had today off and I finished the rest this morning.

[00:16:57] I was told by somebody I trust they said to me drop everything you're doing.

[00:17:02] I don't care what you have to go watch I don't care what screening you have like drop everything go home and watch baby reindeer on Netflix and I was like what and sure enough I took the advice.

[00:17:15] I watched it in less than four hours all in one sitting and oh my God.

[00:17:20] I agree Geo it's the best thing I've seen this year.

[00:17:23] The emotional roller coaster that you both have had in like less than 24 hour times fans.

[00:17:30] It's I was so sad about Shogun ending and how like it's this incredibly somber and like ruminative reflection of everything that's happened and then you go to baby reindeer and it's the most jarring and very

[00:17:43] provoking and painful watch, especially you know with the artist Richard Gad and his story and like turning trauma into art like that I think is just bold and something I could never do so like kudos to him.

[00:17:57] I thought it was really good I don't know if I will say it's the best thing I seen this year.

[00:18:01] I think it's really good.

[00:18:03] I really enjoyed it I think the performances are great.

[00:18:06] It's briskly I love the editing in the show.

[00:18:09] I'm not always the biggest person for like narration but the narration is done really well and it breezes by like the episodes aren't long it's only seven episodes like I do recommend everyone go check it out I do think it probably will be also another one of the best of in terms of TV in 2024.

[00:18:26] Emma which episode are you up to.

[00:18:28] I just finished episode four last night.

[00:18:31] Oh excuse me.

[00:18:33] Either four or five I think I think I'm about to start episode five there we go.

[00:18:38] Okay, yeah it is certainly one of the more unique and as just said bold stories and series that I've seen in a long time I think the last one that really got me super excited and the one that I was like wow I haven't seen something like this before was severance so it's been a while for me where I had like a ooh I'm

[00:19:00] super excited about something although maybe excited is the wrong word for the show as it continues to go down a very dark path.

[00:19:07] Well I will say I will say this and Geo I don't mean to like step on you with what you've been watching but as we're talking about baby reindeer here reindeer here I'll say this.

[00:19:16] Excited is not the right word I agree but at the same time what I'm seeing as a result of the show is I am seeing a lot of positivity come out from it because people are seeing what Richard Gad did.

[00:19:29] Not just through the show but also through the play that the show is based on he did a one man play of this at first that is adapted into this series and then also to just a simple act or maybe not so simple for some people but just the act of talking about your trauma your shame and the regret that you carry along with you as opposed to holding it in.

[00:19:55] It's something that I feel and I've seen on message boards people are more willingly coming forward and expressing their experiences as a result of watching this show and recognizing the healing power that that can have and you know there's also been a dark side to this show too because there is a.

[00:20:16] Kind of sort of true crime element of we need to find the real life versions of these people who caused Richard this pain and that gets into a whole messy situation with dark ones of the Internet and in a way it almost feel like it's almost.

[00:20:35] Proving one element of this shows point with regards to just obsession and stalking and you know it gets a little a little nutty for some people out there on the Internet you know but Richard fantastic man.

[00:20:50] I don't know if I will see a performance this year that is this raw and honest and so brave I don't like using that word and I hate I don't like using that word because I feel like it gets overused but this is truly a brave performance what he has done by putting it all out there on the line.

[00:21:13] And like you said Emma you're not done with it yet but when you see what he does especially in the final two episodes like just just wait.

[00:21:22] Yeah I ultimate episode for all is the one that's like wow it's like the ultimate therapy session.

[00:21:28] Wow well something that I was something that I have also appreciate with the show that I feel like it has allowed people to have very good conversations about it in terms of of the trauma and also probably better understanding you know what may happen in situations.

[00:21:48] Not just the stocking but some of the other themes that are used in the episode and I hope that that maybe helps open people's eyes to just being kinder to people and better understanding just how harmful certain moments in your life can be and how much they change everything in an instant and I mean I had a really good conversation with my boyfriend last night after watching the fourth episode because there was

[00:22:18] you know some things that he maybe didn't understand because he has not gone through a situation but I could kind of open up to him a little bit about my experience which thankfully I can say was not like Richard's however there are some elements to it that I think you know unfortunately ring true

[00:22:37] not just for myself but for many other people too so I think it serves as a really good stepping point to really open up those dialogues.

[00:22:48] Yeah I think also too there is this recognition I'm noticing not just in terms of what happens to Richard but how he responds to it and I've seen people watch the show and angrily get frustrated over Richard's decision making

[00:23:07] and he does things the way that he does them and you know oh I would never do that if I was him and I was in that situation that sort of thing but then there are people who are able to relate sometimes directly sometimes indirectly to what he's gone through and they say no this all makes perfect sense

[00:23:24] what he's doing and how he's processing it and how he's dealing with it or not dealing with it in some cases that's how it is and I think Pete I think that recognition is what's allowing the show to really reach out to people.

[00:23:39] Yeah I think you know also it's hard to always put yourself in another person's shoes like every individual is different every individual reacts differently and you are watching his story and no one could probably tell his story better than himself you know so I think that's the most honest reaction towards it

[00:23:57] and I also you know this show not really comparable to a degree but I feel people will compare a lot too I may destroy you.

[00:24:04] Yeah I could see that.

[00:24:05] I'll pass you over Caleb Cole's story which is semi truthful telling of a similar situation that happened to her and how she ended up turning that into that series and I think both are such beautifully made series very different too in terms of their styles the way they deliver their humor and hard and the different types of performances.

[00:24:26] At times this show is terrifying to watch.

[00:24:29] There's the episodes four like you mentioned it's some of the toughest shit I've seen all year where it's like this is not an easy thing and for some people who are very you know if you need a trigger awarding or watching the show gives it to you and I do want to let you know that it's not the easiest show to watch but I do think everyone a part of baby reindeer truly made something special.

[00:24:52] Yeah I've been recommending it to everyone but with the caveat of you know like this is some heavy stuff be prepared but my God in terms of writing directing acting the like the way that the show is just structured in terms of its editing.

[00:25:12] It almost has it reminded me a lot of the energy of something like train spotting where it just moves and it has like such a kinetic vibe to it but then the moments where it needs to hit you with some real life heavy shit.

[00:25:29] It really slows down and those moments like like the ones you think of in train spotting they linger and they stay with you and then it's like you kind of go back to that hyper kinetic style and we're just rushed right back into it again.

[00:25:43] Yeah I'm sorry I didn't mean to hijack your spot here Gio I just needed to really keep.

[00:25:48] No you're good.

[00:25:49] That's what we're here for.

[00:25:50] Yeah no I mean it's clearly one of the more popular new releases and television and who knows what will happen in the coming war season but like the way this show is building an organic word of mouth like I had co-worker I was talking to about he's like yeah and he mentioned our manager he's like yeah he mentioned baby reindeer

[00:26:09] and I was just like yeah that's how you know like this show is spreading like a wildfire when you have like co-workers or just random people you don't really talk to about TV like that or just like oh have you seen baby reindeer that's how you know that this is genuinely something that is catching everyone's eye.

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