Interviews With "Maestro" Co-Writer Josh Singer & Cinematographer Matthew Libatique

[00:00:00] Hey guys, it is Ryan. I'm not sure if you know this about me but I'm a bit of a fun,

[00:00:03] funatic one I can't write. I like to work but I like fun too. It's a thing and now the truth

[00:00:08] is out there. I can tell you about my favorite place to have fun. Chamba Casino. They have hundreds

[00:00:13] of social casino style games to choose from with new games released each week. You can play for free

[00:00:18] anytime, anywhere and each day brings a new chance to collect daily bonuses so join me in the fun.

[00:00:24] Sign up now at chambaasino.com. You are listening to the Next Best Picture Podcast and this is MSSAS 6

[00:00:34] interview with the co-writer for the Oscar nominated film Mice Drow Josh Singer and Dan Baer's interview

[00:00:41] with the Oscar nominated cinematographer Matthew Libertic. Oh, it's 12. No, can you try it? Just

[00:00:51] maybe I should stop and think for a second. You should stop and think because I am sending it to you.

[00:00:56] 20? No. So how long do we have to do this for? We only need to build up a very strong connection.

[00:01:05] We've been a very busy, fun, crazy, last few weeks for you and how are you doing?

[00:01:11] A little tired of being honest but ever grateful. Yes, I see the post-poster right behind you.

[00:01:21] I know you've done N1 for Spotlight so you've been busy these last few years but I'm sure it's

[00:01:30] always a good time for you to be writing and crafting up such incredible stories.

[00:01:38] I've been really lucky. I've been really lucky to work with really great directors

[00:01:42] and those collaborations have been just really extraordinary and frankly,

[00:01:49] that's to me the best part of this business is when you meet someone who inspires you,

[00:01:55] who you get to work with. Look, I've been very fortunate to collaborate with wonderful visionary

[00:02:01] directors and I put Bradley right on the line with Tom McCarthy and Stephen and Damian.

[00:02:12] She's Ellen and to me, he shares a lot with the uncompromising passion that Tommy has.

[00:02:23] He's got the insane work ethic that Damian has and he has the extraordinary vision that Stephen has

[00:02:32] and so it's really been a joy to work with him over these past five years.

[00:02:38] I can imagine, I mean, I know that it's been a long time coming with this film as I've read.

[00:02:43] You know through interviews that Bradley himself has shared and then also, you know,

[00:02:48] Carrie and yourself, I can imagine the labor of love and maybe labor of stress that these last five,

[00:02:58] six years have brought but I mean it's a great achievement. Huge, huge congratulations.

[00:03:03] I've seen the film twice. I got to see it at the I got to see it at the premiere in Los Angeles,

[00:03:09] at the AFI Film Festival in like the most gorgeous space you can watch a film which is the Chinese

[00:03:16] theater for yourself to I'm not sure if you were in attendance. Okay, how is it for yourself to see

[00:03:25] something that you have worked on for so long projected in a space like the Chinese theater?

[00:03:31] You know, it's funny because part of it is the projection part of it is what you hear.

[00:03:38] Right? I had a friend who saw they just redid the Smithsonian in the theater at the museum of

[00:03:50] it's like the Amstad Museum at the Smithsonian. It's not called the Amstad. That's my college days.

[00:03:58] Maybe it's the museum of American history. It's the one where you know, Darthy shoes are

[00:04:01] and Indiana Jones has had and they just redid the theater down there, Dolby Redidit to make it

[00:04:08] full on to give it the full great sound. I had a buddy who came and watched and was like that was

[00:04:20] the best way I can think of to enjoy Atlanta Bernstein concert. That's sort of how I feel,

[00:04:26] one of the things I'm incredibly proud of is the music. I've been on this for almost 10 years

[00:04:32] and a large part of that Odyssey has been getting to know Lennie's music because all I really

[00:04:37] knew was Westside's story and maybe a little bit of all in town. And so getting to learn his

[00:04:43] three symphonies and his multiple ballets and all of the wonderful show music not to mention

[00:04:53] getting much more acquainted with Moller and Beethoven through Lennie has been just kind of a

[00:04:59] wonderful music education. And beyond that, like you know as Lennie once said to a protege of his

[00:05:08] I like his music. You know, like you know and I think what's wonderful and you know, Bradley and I

[00:05:15] always wanted to see if we could bring back classical music in a big way but also you know,

[00:05:21] bring back Lennie's music specifically and we always imagine that you know, the score would be

[00:05:26] all Lennie. And what I love about it is and I think it's the best score this year even though

[00:05:33] not competing because it all feels connected because Lennie's music all sort of felt of a piece

[00:05:41] it all felt like Lennie. And yet it's got all these different you know interesting moments,

[00:05:47] you know, Lennie would do these great bombastic, you know, from the Candido virtue to, you know,

[00:05:53] on the town to these quiet, you know, he used to sit and he wrote these piano

[00:05:58] anniversaries which he just said in like take a look at the piano. And one of them the anniversary

[00:06:03] for Felicia actually we have the orchestra version that's in the film. And so it really sort of

[00:06:09] spans the gamut of Lennie's work and in that way I think you know gives you an oral portrait of him

[00:06:18] as well as the, you know, as well as anything that we're doing with the script or the visuals.

[00:06:24] I used to play the violin for 10 years so I'm always so appreciative of films that dive into music

[00:06:31] in whether it's from the composer conductor Sam. We had this film we had Tarr last year I kind of

[00:06:37] loving this conductor Renaissance that we're getting. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:06:41] Wait, you know, for yourself you said you were a little bit familiar with him. Was it, is it a

[00:06:47] little daunting to you know go into a project like this where you really have to immerse yourself in

[00:06:53] this man's life? I know it's not that traditional biopic because it's focused on the marriage but

[00:06:59] obviously there are parts of his career that are still intertwined in this story. Yeah, I mean

[00:07:04] it's funny because the way and in some ways so it's incredibly daunting, right? I mean

[00:07:10] so it's funny I have because I was doing research about something that was written. I have the

[00:07:15] Burton book you know and you'll see it's all pretty well marked up. And this is the sort of Bible

[00:07:23] right it's sort of the definitive biography of him which is not easy to read it's like a

[00:07:27] encyclopedia it's not just to you know James Hanson spoke on Neil Armstrong which is also a

[00:07:33] wonderful encyclopedia but it really is kind of that. And so what's great with Lenny is there all

[00:07:41] these other books right? There's findings which is the book you know it's sort of his sort of memoir

[00:07:46] there's the letters book there was a book called The Private World of Letter Bernstein there was

[00:07:52] you know Jamie put out a book famous father girl which is incredibly useful like and there's

[00:07:57] all the audio and video so it was incredibly daunting on the one hand but you know you could

[00:08:03] always go go read that book and then come back to the encyclopedia. And the encyclopedia is where

[00:08:08] you know this is this is where all the all the you know if I want to check facts like anything it's in

[00:08:12] here but you know but all the other books sort of give you slightly different insight

[00:08:18] you know and for me in fact you know so I signed on this 10 years ago Fred

[00:08:23] friend burner named me during came to me and said Marty Scorsese was interested in maybe directing

[00:08:29] and and for me I was always terrified of the back half of his life. In part because it gets so dark

[00:08:37] in part because like this is a thick book and if I only do up to where he turns 40 it's just the first

[00:08:44] and so my first scripts were really all about the Ascent right? It's all about how he you know

[00:08:51] has this great debut in 43 and then wanders around a little bit he does fancy free and on the town

[00:08:57] and it's like out of a cannon but then sort of vis-vis-vis-guys doesn't know musical theater and so

[00:09:01] he tries stick to that wanders around and doesn't really find uh he doesn't get a podium he sort of is

[00:09:06] you know is a guest conductor all over and is famous but is not really doesn't really have his

[00:09:12] thing and then he marries Felicia and suddenly it grounds him and you know you know opens him up

[00:09:17] to write wonderful town and candied and west side story and do on to bust and young people's concerts

[00:09:23] and then literally take over the form on it in 57 that's where I ended right? I was like just that

[00:09:27] like and it was really about him struggling between conducting and posing with Sevilles ship Felicia's

[00:09:33] sort of our B story important B story but our B story and and um and it was a very clever script but

[00:09:40] it didn't really have heart right and that's what Stephen when he you know Stephen who loved the script

[00:09:46] you know but was really like where's the heart and where's Lenny in this and we couldn't really

[00:09:50] find in fact the kids didn't even love the script um which was part reason why we almost lost the

[00:09:55] rights but then Bradley came along and on the one hand it was sort of challenging because he said

[00:10:00] you know page 1 rewrite we're gonna start from scratch which was not on the script for a long time

[00:10:05] by that point but in the other hand he had a revision which was he focused on this one book the private

[00:10:10] world of Leonard Bernstein which is all about Lenny at 50 in Italy um which was beyond I hadn't read

[00:10:16] the back half of the book you could not deal with that wasn't there and he was just he got very

[00:10:22] interested in Lenny's downward spiral you know when he tried to leave Felicia and found he couldn't

[00:10:28] and then she dies and then he's a mass and and he was totally there and as I got more and more

[00:10:33] intrigued you know and I was racing keep up with him and this book the private world of Leonard

[00:10:38] Bernstein is read the precipice when he's 50 and he's now stepping out from the form on it because

[00:10:42] he wants to compose and he's really struggling and she's struggling too and that wound up becoming

[00:10:49] our story right and and and and Bradley very quickly said this is a story of a marriage like that's

[00:10:54] what's universal and interesting here and of course it's interesting because Leonard Bernstein we

[00:10:58] have all this great music and that's our nuclear device and also we have you know the story of his

[00:11:04] career that can be this wonderful B story making it sort of interesting and what's public and

[00:11:09] what's private which is you know always interesting with these these folks but like the marriage

[00:11:14] is what's universal and so that sort of flipped the script on how we were going to approach

[00:11:20] and what we wound up with was not only a script that the the kids really liked you know in a

[00:11:26] movie that the kids love but something that I think is universal and much more emotional than anything

[00:11:30] I ever was after and so and so that's been incredibly educational and again it speaks to Bradley's

[00:11:38] vision and it's I mean it's true we watch a lot of these more quote-unquote traditional biopics

[00:11:45] and you're just seeing a larger than life figure maybe you can relate to some things that they're

[00:11:51] experiencing or the feelings that they're going through but other times it's I mean it's that

[00:11:56] person it's their story with my Easter I do feel like because there are these

[00:12:03] internal struggles both with professionally with your career but also personally with with marriage

[00:12:09] and love and just trying to find yourself in that space I think that that definitely sings to a

[00:12:16] lot of people at just like how summer sings to to him too. Something that I also really enjoyed

[00:12:24] with the film is obviously you get black and white and color and that signifies the kind of the

[00:12:31] two different time periods but I think the style of writing also very much signifies that

[00:12:38] yeah you know in that first half I in the black and white half I feel like yes you kind of said

[00:12:44] he doesn't know his footing and so sometimes the writing seems like his mind is kind of going a

[00:12:49] mile a minute and then that color portion he's much more mature maybe he still hasn't grown up

[00:12:56] all the way but he you know it slows down in its pace was that I'm assuming that that was all very

[00:13:05] intentional on your at least end. Yeah I mean look Lenny when you when you listen to tapes of young

[00:13:12] Lenny when you when you read about his life he was a whirling dervish right and he was a whirling

[00:13:19] dervish throughout his life but really when he was young I mean it's it it it boggles the mind how much

[00:13:26] he was doing yeah like you know he wrote you know he wrote you know two symphonies and you know

[00:13:36] four or five about delays and like you know and and opera and you know three four musicals right

[00:13:48] all from 25 to 40 and it's a vast you know it's you know it's just just the amount of work right

[00:13:55] and this is all while he's traveling the world yes conducting you know on a regular basis like

[00:14:02] it's hard and then doing television and a lot of time he's one of the pioneers of television I mean

[00:14:07] remember in the 50s it's very early days for television he's one of the first who's on there

[00:14:12] doing the omnibus specials than taking over the young people's concerts and like and so the

[00:14:17] amount he was doing was extraordinary right I mean it's it's and so and you get the feeling that

[00:14:25] he just never stopped obviously going going going going going going going and moreover like there's

[00:14:32] an abelian and a incredible you know this sort of like brightness that burns from within

[00:14:39] and so we wanted the pacing of everything to feel that way right and it's like it is it's how they

[00:14:44] talk it's how you know and and and Bradley even took it even further then we had on the page in terms

[00:14:49] of like it almost feels like a 40s movie at the time yeah it does his circles and and so you

[00:14:55] know some of that is on the page of some of that is how he and character playing it in this sort

[00:14:59] of wonderful way and it's rare that he slows down in that first half in fact like you know that

[00:15:06] wonderful moment of them the grass where you know she says you know you're not moving and you know

[00:15:11] are you okay with it and he's like no I love it you know but does he right like he's caught

[00:15:16] you know and and the next thing we know he's up and running up to David Oppenheim been running

[00:15:20] away with Aaron Copeland and dinner and then they're running into the musical theater like it's an

[00:15:25] and moreover like you know because it was in the past as we felt there was a lot of magical realism

[00:15:30] in my first drafts most of which we got rid of but we kept a little bit right for that those

[00:15:35] moments in the past where it feels like oh you cannot not only is moving very fast but you can engage

[00:15:40] in this sort of magical you know magical realism where's once you get into color and once you get

[00:15:47] into the you know and there's almost a switch right right in the middle of the of the black and white

[00:15:53] section when they're marrying when they're together and first there's a switch in the walk with

[00:15:57] Oppenheim where it's just silent and then he has this quiet moment with Felicia where you know he

[00:16:03] first says you know some are you know some are doesn't sing and you know sings in me that you know

[00:16:08] sings no more you know some are you singing in many things no more um and then and then even then

[00:16:14] you hear this you move from the jazz of St. Louis Blues which he famously conducted with

[00:16:20] Louis Armstrong at at Louis and St. St. William and then it moves into the adagiato right from

[00:16:26] Mallor's Fifth Symphony right and which is a much slower or more pensive right and even though we

[00:16:33] have the beauty of the of the of the child and the marriage like he's showing the child to Aaron

[00:16:39] like there's something that's a little you know it's not it's not exactly you know it's not

[00:16:44] it's not all is not entirely well in can't a lot right yeah and then when we go to color right

[00:16:51] there's still a lot of hubbub around them at the start with the Dakota and all though overlapping

[00:16:55] dialect but it very quickly moves into these slower contemplative you know um scenes where Lenny

[00:17:04] is at middle age and struggling and Felicia's struggling with the deal she made you know and so that

[00:17:09] is you know very much purposeful and then what I love is then what Bradley did with you know

[00:17:15] the aspect ratio which is 133 throughout the movie you know so you start with 133 and black and white

[00:17:21] and then you go to 133 in color so you have your first transition the last stages is after she

[00:17:26] dies and suddenly you're white right in your standard 1 8 5 and to me like it just gives you a different

[00:17:34] sense of reality that was Lenny's reality after she left where you know there's more empty space

[00:17:41] right there's gotta be more empty space because she's gone you know and he's alone right in a very

[00:17:46] wide frame as opposed to when the life used to truly fill up that frame when it was the two of them

[00:17:52] you know so it accentuates the fact that he is left you know all alone and despite how he tries

[00:18:00] to fill up the hole that is left when she's gone so um and that's really again like but all

[00:18:06] this is really um and it's why I think I love collaborating with directors because to me if

[00:18:12] you're forging a vision on the page then you know then it you have a more you have a greater

[00:18:18] likelihood of that a vision than appearing on the screen right as opposed to when you're just

[00:18:22] blocking off on your own and then you hand them a script and then like well who knows what they're

[00:18:25] gonna do once they get set right um and I've been really fortunate you know we're closely with all

[00:18:31] the directors I named um and it allows me to sort of participate in the creation of the vision

[00:18:37] such that when the baton is handed off and they're and they're off on set and I've been fortunate

[00:18:41] the onset for most of that but they're really you know the directors obviously in charge um

[00:18:46] you know but you know I generally you know when I was in set with Tommy I had almost no notes

[00:18:51] because anytime I had a note within three tastes you'd have the same note you know like

[00:18:55] we're being brained by that and so that to me has been a great joy of of the collaborations I've

[00:19:01] been able to work on since you mentioned that in the first original draft you didn't even bother to

[00:19:07] get into that latter half of his of his life as you ventured into that with Bradley I guess how

[00:19:13] did you feel going into those those deeper darker moments because as you just said I mean we go through

[00:19:21] the many negatives that they experienced their relationship and then of course Felicia's illness

[00:19:26] and and her death I mean those are all tough things to write let alone to experience

[00:19:34] okay round two name something that's not boring laundry oh a book club computer solitaire huh

[00:19:44] ah sorry we were looking for chamba casino

[00:19:50] that's right chamba casino.com has over a hundred casino style games join today and play for

[00:19:54] free for your chance to redeem some serious prizes chamba casino.com

[00:20:04] yeah I mean I would say it was it was definitely challenging you know it was definitely

[00:20:10] it's dark that that that that that back half of his life is pretty dark and and it's it's a little

[00:20:17] you know raging bull was always a bit of a you know for us a touchstone you know but it's it's hard

[00:20:26] these movies that that goes so dark you know and and I think it's it's still watchable and there I say

[00:20:36] even enjoyable because it's such rich material and Lenny it's a rich character as is Felicia you

[00:20:42] know but it's it's it's very challenging um and you know on the one hand like look those fight scenes

[00:20:51] are fantastic right yeah and those right and and but but you know you go into the death and

[00:20:58] the after the death and it's it's hard right and and it's it's um and it's hard because you know Lenny

[00:21:05] was such an amazing positive force in the world and we're focusing on some of the more negative

[00:21:11] parts of you know of who he was as an individual but to some degree like you know it's sort

[00:21:16] of amazing because I'd been there before with with Neil Armstrong right like in first man you know

[00:21:24] what had been so interesting was you know a lot of astronauts former colleagues and

[00:21:29] the eels didn't love that movie because we were exploring how you know despite how wonderful

[00:21:35] Neil was as a colleague and as an astronaut it was very challenging for the families and very

[00:21:40] challenging for Neil and that's what we wanted to explore you know and you know Anthony Lane

[00:21:45] wrote this review like that's not the way these men were they were cowboys and they were not

[00:21:51] you know they weren't worrying about their lost children it's like Anthony Lane bullshit right

[00:21:55] they were men just like you would be right like and if you lose a child when that child is

[00:22:01] three don't tell me you're not going to be devastated for the rest of your life in some way

[00:22:04] of course and so and and what was amazing was Rick and Mark Armstrong really loved the portrait

[00:22:11] right and like in some ways I got a lot more pushback from Don Graham on you know

[00:22:17] Liz and I got a lot more pushback from Don Graham on how we had written K-Gram even though

[00:22:21] it was almost a hegeography you know compared to I got almost no pushback from Neil and Mark

[00:22:26] I didn't like get it right in terms of when the LLTV separates from the you know like like

[00:22:32] you know but the portrait was exact you know because I think it it allowed them to see on screen

[00:22:38] the part they knew that the world didn't know and in that way I will say one of the things

[00:22:43] that was really rewarding as a you know again the Bernstein kids didn't love my draft there was

[00:22:50] this point where we almost lost the rights and the Bernstein kids Jake Jones Hall have been

[00:22:55] whispering in the rears and look it had been a long time they'd been working with Fred Naming

[00:23:00] they had nothing to show for it they'd been they'd had those rights were wrapped up for eight years

[00:23:04] at that point and there was no movie and even though I was working with Stephen we couldn't tell him

[00:23:08] about it because Stephen was committed to West Side Story and we didn't want anything to mess that

[00:23:12] up I was very confident because Stephen had liked my scyripped script and we sent them the script

[00:23:17] and they were like this isn't our father and it was in part because it was a lot closer to just

[00:23:22] a celebration of Lenny as opposed to exploring the darkness yeah man one of the things Bradley

[00:23:28] when he came on and by focusing on the marriage you know and he insisted that we continue to work

[00:23:33] closely with the kids which we did throughout you know even in post he showed the multiple cuts and

[00:23:38] got all sorts of notes you know but you know I think the one of the reasons they're so happy with

[00:23:43] the film is because it shows aside of their father the world didn't know and the side of the

[00:23:49] father that was you know some of the havoc he he brought on their personal life which is a

[00:23:56] harder side to depict especially of an icon you know but you know I think that's what's universal

[00:24:02] and interesting and so I will say it's one of those amazing things that like I didn't want to go

[00:24:10] there it was challenging to go there I loved Lenny and you know it was not necessarily what I would

[00:24:15] have led with but seeing how the kids reacted to it you know it was clear like oh this is sort of

[00:24:21] what needed to be out there right the rest of it is all already out right you want to see Lenny being

[00:24:27] wonderful go watch omnibus or go watch the people's concerts it's there you know um but like if you

[00:24:34] want a three-dimensional portrait of what what he what he was who he was and you know some of the

[00:24:40] challenges that you know cropped up as a result like you know that's what we were trying to do.

[00:24:45] Mm-hmm very much reminds me of um also which came out last year Priscilla and that portrait of Elvis

[00:24:51] Presley and their side that we didn't get to see I as a viewer I enjoy getting those more personal

[00:24:58] in depth looks because we can see all the newsreels about people falling over all these famous

[00:25:04] people and icons and have the same things regurgitated but if you actually take a moment to

[00:25:10] consider who were they behind closed stories I think that's always the much stronger story to tell

[00:25:16] that's that's what we're trying to do so that's nice to hear of course um Josh I know that I

[00:25:22] have talked your ear off already for so long um but I just want to thank you so very much for

[00:25:28] for filling me in a little bit about you know the making of this film I I really really enjoyed it

[00:25:34] so I appreciate it this time with you. Well I appreciate you taking the time and nice chat so

[00:25:39] thank you life wise and best of luck these next crazy feelings for you. Thanks very much take

[00:25:45] care bye are you itching to move no no um actually at all I'm thinking of a number

[00:25:56] no I don't know nine no five no you have to think

[00:26:09] I'm trying to it's two darling it's two like us okay two little ducks in a park welcome everyone to

[00:26:19] the next best picture podcast where we are speaking with Matthew Liebatek the cinematographer

[00:26:26] and you film my story Matthew thank you so much for joining us today thanks for having me

[00:26:32] appreciate it very excited to talk to you even one of my favorite working cinematographers for

[00:26:39] many years um and this film is really quite the achievement with how great it looks I wanted to

[00:26:47] start by asking you know this is the second film you've worked on with Bradley Cooper after a star

[00:26:52] is born and I read in an interview you referred to him as one of the most relentless people you know

[00:27:01] and say that because of that you knew you wanted to work with him more than once what is it about

[00:27:07] that relentlessness that attracts you to him as an artist well I mean anytime you are

[00:27:14] you're working with somebody who is moving at a certain miles per hour

[00:27:20] and and pulling from every facet of their lives and their research and their being to create something

[00:27:28] you're drawn to it yeah if you're a creative person you're drawn to a creative being was

[00:27:32] pulling energy out of everything to create what they're creating and Bradley is somebody who

[00:27:39] has um is mastering the the the skills that allow you to be a person that works with the

[00:27:47] user of the camera the right way uses um it obviously performance the right way design color palette

[00:27:56] visual choices as well as sound choices as well as musical choices you know all those things

[00:28:03] they're all equal you know all the great filmmakers those aspects are all equal so it's going to

[00:28:07] photography editing production design costume design they're all critical and he's relentless at

[00:28:13] making sure everybody's on the same page so that singular vision that he has is communicated

[00:28:19] did you're working relationship differ at all from your work together on a star is born

[00:28:26] I mean it was it was different in the sense head there's the biggest difference on a star is born

[00:28:30] he'd show up ready because it was Jack main he rolled out of bed and whatever he had to do it didn't

[00:28:35] take a whole lot of time as soon as he arrived he put his hat on and we're ready to shoot I mean he

[00:28:41] was ready to shoot on my show very similarly he'd be ready to shoot he'd be ready to be on camera when

[00:28:48] the crew arrived the difference for him and for us too because we felt it is that he would be up six

[00:28:55] four to six hours ahead of time putting on prosthetics and doing all the special effects makeup

[00:29:00] whatever prosthetic body pieces here to wear I mean there was a lot of commitment on his head

[00:29:06] when that's another reason why I call him relentless it's like those things those obstacles those

[00:29:11] mental physical obstacles don't get in his way you know he's he's relentless and

[00:29:16] that the one thing that sort of carried at the end of the stick he's gonna get that carrot you know

[00:29:23] he's really he's really he really um and he leads by example you know

[00:29:28] see you're talking about somebody who directs from within a scene as an actor and not only direct

[00:29:33] sacriors from within the scene he's also you know they'll turn his head so it's not on camera and

[00:29:37] he'll bark out in order to me or bark out somebody directs him for a camera operator you know

[00:29:44] and it's just this fluid orchestration of filmmaking that's very cool

[00:29:48] and how did he grown as a filmmaker since the star is born I mean for me at the he's just so he's

[00:29:56] so he's always had an editorial mind he really has a great sense of how much of a shot is going

[00:30:03] to use and when he's gonna cut like the instincts to move the story forward clearly he's already

[00:30:09] possessed the ability to discern the kind of performance the tone he needs to tell that part

[00:30:15] of the story at that time of the film what is really impressive is how much he's grown as a

[00:30:22] uh in terms of his knowledge of camera you know and being able to communicate to me is a cinematographer

[00:30:28] hands really it's just it's an evolution of our relationship he could really

[00:30:33] communicate focal lengths and the feeling of a long lens versus a wide lens he can communicate

[00:30:38] movement um the heaviness of a dolly versus the cloning aspects of a steady cam these are all

[00:30:45] things he can describe and not in the same way I described them to say my technical crew he's

[00:30:51] describing it to me so there's a very special language is that because he's he's taking the language

[00:30:55] of a writer and bringing it to my world and then we're you know we're able to have that common ground

[00:30:59] now um not that we didn't have that on the first film but we were just getting to know each other

[00:31:05] but he's and he has now subsequently worked on you know he's such a sponge he learned so fast

[00:31:11] you know he's you know he's worked with me on with Nautoro and Paul Thomas Anderson so you know

[00:31:15] walking I mean those two people definitely had an influence on me working with him on my show

[00:31:22] so you know I think that that's um if you even if I just said that that's probably the greatest

[00:31:28] in terms of propelling his evolution as a film maker yeah it it it's really a great journey they

[00:31:35] think that he's on and how far in advance of production did he bring you onto this film was it

[00:31:42] right after you finished work on the last one no I mean it I don't think it had been

[00:31:47] official that he was going to do it at that point at the at the end of a star's born it wasn't until

[00:31:52] I seem to remember around the time of our award season rotten with a star's born where he

[00:31:56] he was sniffing around this story of them and Bernstein and uh he brought it up to me very early

[00:32:03] I mean we probably talked about it for four or five years prior to shooting in

[00:32:08] maybe four years I'm not sure exactly but it was it was a number of years it's over three

[00:32:13] and we uh we spent that time sort of you know bouncing well he was basically bouncing ideas off

[00:32:19] of me and bouncing off ideas off his other collaborators and um writing with Josh and uh

[00:32:28] we would take that time you know the biggest concern at the moment at that time was how are we

[00:32:33] gonna articulate let her Bernstein how the hand or makeup was going to work or the makeup

[00:32:37] specifically so we did numerous tests so we had a lot of time because we had the four or five

[00:32:42] year period we did numerous tests with makeup to try to get it right into the comments it could

[00:32:48] you know get the right combination of his body and prosthetic makeup and whatever that went into

[00:32:55] that we also tested multiple formats we used that time to test multiple formats whether it be

[00:33:01] filmed black and white digital color digital we're anamorphic spherical uh you know when we have a

[00:33:09] proof concept of all the things that we shot because we would actually shoot scenes from the script

[00:33:14] and there's a there's a there's a proof of concept that exists in the world that's it's basically

[00:33:19] a quilt of formats and ideas and it's it's very cool like and we you know from that we were able to

[00:33:27] sort of you know he was inspired you know we did we did the scene in the film there's a scene where um

[00:33:34] Felicia takes Lenny on their first night he gonna take some into this theater that she's working in

[00:33:39] well we shot that and it seemed in loss and we shot that we shot that scene has a test in Los Angeles

[00:33:45] and um it was one I think it was the first time we shot black and white film

[00:33:49] and that from that one scene shooting on a stage at Brawley Studios across the street from Paramount

[00:33:57] we just it was magic is like we had shot aery 65 we had shot all the digital formats every camera

[00:34:04] you know Sony red Alexa I mean uh yeah aery Alexa it wasn't until we saw

[00:34:12] the black and white film that we just get hit over the head and he especially he just like this is

[00:34:17] the way we're gonna shoot the beginning of this film so that sort of uh but that it was like it was

[00:34:21] a process so I guess the go back to your early question I was brought on very early and it allowed us

[00:34:27] to actually marinate on some of these ideas yeah I've seen in another interview that you you said it

[00:34:32] was there was something inexplicable about the black and white film stock that you ended up using

[00:34:39] what well what was it exactly about that that stock that just made the both of you go

[00:34:45] yeah this is giving us what we're missing you know I don't know if it was the stock specifically

[00:34:50] as much as maybe it's the stock specifically but I would say it's film in general it's just

[00:34:55] film has a tonality to it it's a it's a separation between each shade of gray

[00:35:01] that is unspeakably filmed you know and it's it can be matched in digital with great effort

[00:35:08] because you could put a black and white image up on a monitor and you could uh

[00:35:13] just de-saturate the color and you could tweak it a little bit in terms of gamma

[00:35:17] and get it to a point where it's got similar tonality to a piece of black and white film but you'll

[00:35:21] not gonna you're not gonna get there and if you can get there there's been successful really successful

[00:35:26] ones don't get me wrong I think Eda Eda was a successful one so was um Roma both very successful

[00:35:33] black and white movie shot on digital but I believe uh at least in a Roma's case well I'm not sure

[00:35:40] actually if it was but I think that you know both of them came very close but I know that both

[00:35:45] of them took a lot of time in post-production to get that right and a lot of study in film is

[00:35:51] basically the is your control for all the experiments to do to try to get to your control you know

[00:35:57] and for us that already exists if I expose it a certain way I get a vibe if I expose it another way

[00:36:04] I get a different vibe so that was kind of the chief it just simplified its streamlined it

[00:36:09] and that's kind of the that was kind of the idea um a my strobe the shooting of my strobe the

[00:36:15] idea of my strobe it's a very naked naked and open look at a person and we approach making it

[00:36:24] the same same way yeah I wanted to ask about one specific scene in the film which is the big

[00:36:31] scene that tends to become everybody's favorite talking point about the film which is the scene

[00:36:36] that you shot in uh Eli Kethedro where Leonard Bernstein conducts a Mueller's second symphony

[00:36:44] and I know that you shot the long shot of him conducting was all done in one take but there are also

[00:36:51] these insert shots of the orchestra close-ups of the musician some of Alicia and I'm wondering what

[00:36:58] was your guys thought was the thought process always that they're going to be these insert shots or

[00:37:05] was it initially that it's just going to be one take and then that changed no I think it was initially

[00:37:12] I mean we actually shot the inserts before we shot that long take uh yeah um going into I think

[00:37:19] we did two days of shooting we we prepped for about a week we have two days of shooting and we had

[00:37:25] shot sort of the preamble to the scene the day before and various shots of you know the music and

[00:37:32] the performance but by the end of that day we ended up shooting um we knew we wanted to shoot the

[00:37:37] orchestra we were what we were hearing was so absolutely beautiful because we were recording it

[00:37:43] live so they're actually playing it's a London film harmonic it was like this you know I'd never

[00:37:48] experienced anything like it I was so close so for us not to put it on film it just it just you

[00:37:54] know again we're reacting to what's in front of us which is the way Bradley loves to work and

[00:37:58] I love working with him because of it is when we're reacting to what's happening before us whether

[00:38:03] we put that before the camera or that thing is happening before the camera we want to photograph it

[00:38:09] so we had to photograph it so we shot some of that some of the stuff with the orchestra at the end

[00:38:15] of the first day so when we got to the second day you know Bradley had a night think about what

[00:38:19] we had done and he came up with this long take so what you see in the film is basically a combination

[00:38:25] those two days of shooting you know but it wasn't planned as a long take it was planned differently

[00:38:31] completely but it's a reaction to what was happening around us like reading the scene that you see

[00:38:35] in the film it's great I love the the insight um I know we're coming up at the end of our time together

[00:38:41] but I also had to ask because as a former dancer I'm obviously quite enamored of your work on

[00:38:49] Black Swan and also some of the scenes in a Staris when you really get part of the audience members

[00:38:55] alongside performers in really unique ways and you do it again in this in um the sequence uh from

[00:39:04] I think it's actually the ballet version fancy free that eventually became on the town as your

[00:39:10] respective on or point of view on dance changed at all the more you still met and the more you work

[00:39:19] with choreographers I feel like I get I've gotten better at it you know um I took leaps and bounds I

[00:39:26] mean I had done I you know I came up through the world of music videos and we had some choreographed

[00:39:31] dance but there was a lot of hip hop and urban stuff so I worked with choreographers in the past but

[00:39:36] not until black swan that I worked with somebody mentioned millipia who you know as long as I

[00:39:41] showed him the size of the camera and the camera operator and the space I needed then he would create

[00:39:48] space for it and it was effortless it's like the camera wasn't there that's kind of the idea and

[00:39:54] I think that anytime you're transported into something whether it be in on fancy free or in

[00:39:59] black swan I think uh what's important in the or the performance performances for that matter

[00:40:04] was large born it's about subjectivity and being in there so that your the audience can be transported

[00:40:10] to the place yeah that's what makes those scenes so memorable thank you thank you thank you

[00:40:16] just so much Matthew for speaking with us today congratulations uh on your work on the film but

[00:40:22] it's really gorgeous till it got I appreciate it I appreciate thanks for the time I enjoyed

[00:40:27] look at the podcast when does it come out uh thank you I don't know uh when exactly we'll we'll

[00:40:33] post it but um we will we will be in touch with that right okay right on channel know when it posts

[00:40:38] yeah thank you Daniel good to meet you very good to meet you as well thanks

[00:40:43] and then here we are thank you so much for listening to our satsangar

[00:40:46] you have the co-writer from my show Josh Singer and Dan Bears end of you with Matthew Limitique

[00:40:51] this sent him a photographer both are up for your consideration at this year's Academy Awards where

[00:40:57] my show is nominated for seven Oscars including Best Picture Best Original Screenplay and Best

[00:41:03] Cinematography you have been listening to the next Best Picture Podcast we are probably part of

[00:41:08] the other great podcast network and you can subscribe to us anywhere where you subscribe to podcasts

[00:41:13] be sure to leave a review and have a podcast and let us know what you think of the show

[00:41:16] we really appreciate your feedback and your support which you can also land on over at Patreon

[00:41:22] for one dollar minimum a month you'll get some exclusive podcast content from us thank you all

[00:41:27] so much for listening as always and we will see you all next time

[00:41:52] so

[00:42:17] hello and welcome to novel conversations a podcast about the world's greatest stories

[00:42:22] I'm your host, Frank Lovalo.

[00:42:24] And for each episode of novel conversations,

[00:42:26] I talked to two readers about one book.

[00:42:28] And together, we summarized the story for you.

[00:42:31] We introduced you to the characters,

[00:42:33] we tell you what happens to them,

[00:42:34] and we read from the book along the way.

[00:42:36] So if you love hearing a good story,

[00:42:38] you're in the right place.

[00:42:39] Our ninth season is coming this fall.

[00:42:41] Tune in to hear from some of the all-time great authors,

[00:42:44] Charles Dickens, Jules Verne,

[00:42:46] F. Scott Fitzgerald, and more.

[00:42:49] Subscribe to novel conversations

[00:42:50] wherever you listen to podcasts.