Ramayana, Batwara 1947 and The Odyssey Backlash

[00:00:15] Hi, this is Asim. This is Sujoy. This is Amritha. And you're listening to Khandaan, a Bollywood Podcast about the three main Khans of the Hindi film industry. Aamir, Salman and Shahrukh. Hi, you're listening to Khandaan, a Bollywood Podcast regular feed. Thank you so much for your support over the years. We now have a Patreon channel with bonus content and exclusive merch for those of you who would like to support us. Every dollar goes towards creating more

[00:00:41] and better content. Visit us at patreon.com slash Khandaan Podcast. Hi and welcome to a new episode of Khandaan Podcast. My name is Asim Burney and I'm joined with my lovely co-host Amritha and Sujoy. Hey, Amrita. Hey, Sujoy. Hey, everybody. So we had plans today, right guys? That was, I'm just gonna like get into this because obviously we had announced. Name and shame them. Name and shame

[00:01:08] them. Basically, we were gonna record two episodes today. One was going to be the trailer reaction to Batwara and, is it Batwara 1947, right? That's what it's called. Yes. And then the Ramayana trailer that just dropped. And then do the main review, it was going to be English Babu Desi made. But both of my co-hosts have disappointed me in certain degrees. Amritha by not watching it

[00:01:36] and Sujoy for picking this movie. So we will be doing that at a later date, but both all of us will be traveling for a few weeks. So there might be a bit of delay in that episode, unfortunately. And the thing is, I announced it on Patreon and people were so excited because they absolutely love it when we watch terrible, terrible movies and that we suffer and, you know, that we feel pain.

[00:02:04] And I'm glad that Sujoy was part of creation of that pain by making us watch English Babu Desi. Yeah. The audience shouldn't get the onus all the time, you know. I should create the pain as well. Yeah. So what are your excuses, Amritha? What's going on? My excuse is that I love myself and I really didn't want to... I have like vague memories of

[00:02:31] watching this film, which I will explain more when we record that episode. But yeah, I was telling Asim about it and then Sujoy was like, no, it's a good movie. And that's how you know that Sujoy is a true Blue Shah Rukh fan and I am not. I don't think Shah Rukh fan is the hook here. I'm a Sonali fan. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we will be talking about English Babu Desi Mayam at a later week. So it probably

[00:03:00] will be like end of August now or mid-August that episode will be coming out. Well, we will be doing it. We will be discussing it. So just a bit of delay. But we wanted to talk... Like first a few plugs, right? We recorded a massive episode about the Odyssey on Patreon. That was a Patreon exclusive. And since then, I've actually rewatched the movie and Sujoy, you've rewatched the movie. I don't know if Amritha, you had a chance to go again?

[00:03:28] No, I'm going to go like this weekend. Hmm. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Um, but I think Sujoy, you have booked again, you're going for the third time soon, right? Yes. If that's what you're saying? Yeah. Uh, I'm rewatching it on the IMAX. So I've watched it on IMAX once and on the super screen once, and I want to watch it on the IMAX again. I couldn't find any screenings. So I booked

[00:03:54] a very early morning screening on Sunday. That was one screen that opened up and I'm going on Sunday. Right. Right. Amritha, have you read, have you seen the kind of, how do you call it? Hullabub about Emily Wilson that wrote, she was not happy. And she went quite far, right?

[00:04:18] She said, if I, if I was Nolan, I would be embarrassed about the adaptation they've done, right? And the writing basically, like the screenplay that I have, if I were, if I had written something like this, I would be very embarrassed or something to that effect. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what are your thoughts? Have you read the Emily Wilson translation, Amritha?

[00:04:39] No, that's been on my TBR for quite a long time. And look, a classicist saying that they hate a popular adaptation of their life's work. I mean, color me shocked, right? Like who saw that one coming? Um, and I have to say like, if Nolan had written, um, uh, more faithful adaptation,

[00:05:10] um, it would have been genuinely, it would have been something like, you know, that, um, what's his name? Armie Hammer. Do you know that Armie Hammer made that Islamophobic, uh, movie where he's like going around killing this entire family of migrants because like one of them like kills his family or whatever. Elon Musk's favorite movie, I mean, Citizen Vigilante. Oh yeah. Okay. Um,

[00:05:37] I can't remember the name of it, but, um, it would have been like the, the, like the classical version of that if they had actually made an, uh, like a faithful adaptation of the Odyssey, right? Like, I'm not saying that it's Islamophobic or it's, you know, like any of the, like, we can't judge pieces of antiquity with modern models, which is something that I'm like very, um, you know,

[00:06:06] it's, it's a, it's a matter of debate obviously, but also there are just some things that don't adapt well to the screen. And I feel like Nolan made the best that he could out of it, you know? Um, and this is something that I was saying to you guys on the Patreon episode as well, that

[00:06:30] I am not too precious about like, oh, this is the Nolan version and the Nolan version is this and the Nolan version is that. I mean, this is a myth. Um, Helen of Troy came from an egg. Like, are we serious? Like, uh, you can do like, I think within the bounds of the story itself, I think Nolan tried to find

[00:06:53] a narrative that he wanted to tell. And that's what a myth is good for. Like you, it creates a framework for a larger story that you're trying to tell. So I understand where Emily Wilson is coming from, but also I think she's wrong. Yeah. I, I, I haven't read the translation myself, but it was interesting because there was so much, like initially there was a lot of backlash against the Odyssey because of the casting,

[00:07:20] because of some of the themes and like the, the portrayal has been also like a lot of right-wing races because they feel they own the Roman empire, you know, that this seems to be a tendency that they have, but I felt like the praise was so, so effusive about this movie that like, uh, the blogs and the content people were like aching for something to grab on. Like it's like, they didn't like it.

[00:07:47] Let's find, you know, the things to say about it. Um, but I mean, there's so many parts of the stories that just wouldn't have worked. Like, you know, like Odyssey is just, you know, banging women left and right. Like, you know, there's a whole section in that there's like, uh, apparently there was no mention of food, which is a big part of the Odyssey or something like that. I mean, there's a lot of these elements that I'm like, you need to, to make it a cohesive story. You need to keep central themes.

[00:08:15] And for me, it was like, that movie was a masterpiece. So I didn't, even though I know the story, I didn't mind like the things that Emily Wilson is saying. I mean, that's interesting from a literary standpoint, but I don't think that would have necessarily made the movie any better, uh, in my mind. Um, also it reminds me of that whole, like, Oh, where was Tom Bombadil in the Lord of the Rings trilogy? Which not a single person that's ever watched the trilogy has been like, Oh, you know

[00:08:45] what? If only Tom Bombadil was here, that's what's like making this movie suck. Like, no, like nobody cares. And also like the original Lord of the Rings is just a bunch of guys like drink and like drinking beer and like singing about it. Like, Oh my God. Like I love this beer. This beer is like the best beer. Don't have any of that in the movie and it's fine. Yeah. Uh, Suja, you also went back and watched Troy. Uh, yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. I hadn't, uh, apparently

[00:09:13] I hadn't watched it or like, I have very hazy memories of watching bits of it on star movies, but I'll, I'll connect the two. Uh, what I find interesting in the conversation with Emily Wilson is that now what, because she's a translator and she did not like the movie, she's equated with the right wing trolls who did not like the movie either, which is a weird way to put it. And also like the other flip side of it, the Nolan bros not accepting the criticism

[00:09:42] like for like the, the, like for me, the movie is visually beautiful, but like the emotion did not connect with me as I have, like you can find all the details of my thoughts on the odyssey on our Patreon review, but I did not connect with it because I just found Matt Damon's

[00:10:05] odyssey's, uh, portrayal was very inert, very stoic. He did not like, uh, come across as emotional at all and not romantic enough, not tragic enough in a way. Um, I, maybe I was projecting some sort of, uh, um, like pop culture reference that I have of Matt Damon, the actor and odyssey as the character. And, and I think that's a failure on both Nolan and Matt Damon, but also coming back to

[00:10:35] Troy, um, I just found while Troy is a very to the template Hollywood cosplayers, you know, the swords and sandals kind of a movie, it does some things, um, quite well compared to the odyssey and better like in ways the, uh, the stage set is created. You know, it, the, you realize that this world is vast.

[00:11:00] The cities are really big. There are thousands and thousands and thousands of people living in these cities, the atrocities, the tragic, you know, aftermath of the, the, the, um, what do you call the, the, the, the Troy war, the siege, the siege of Troy and the utter, you know, massacre and carnage that happens. You don't get to see that perhaps we are sort of numbed with real life tragedy and death

[00:11:29] that what Nolan portrays in, in the odyssey isn't tragic enough. Um, but is somehow depicted very brutally in Troy. Um, obviously I have had many issues with the dialogue in, in, or the sound design in the odyssey that it, I can't really hear what everybody's, you know, speaking because

[00:11:54] the background score is just amped up to the 11 and that is done better in Troy and just the action, action sequences are really well done in Troy compared to the odyssey. Hmm. I mean, also it was like, talk about, you know, adapting things and making it different. I think Troy is like a very good example, uh, about how many massive, massive changes they did

[00:12:17] in 2000, 2004, that movie came out, I think. Yeah. Um, so just one thing I, I did find funny about odyssey while in my second viewing, uh, I've been like desperately looking for an IMAX theater, um, to go to. And I was, I wanted to take my wife for the second viewing because she didn't get a chance to see it. And I just kept looking for IMAX and there was nothing, nothing, nothing. And we ended up finding a VIP screening, which is with like recliner seats.

[00:12:45] And guys, my wife was so happy. It just made me realize like something we like film nerds can like obsess about screen size when like, we should maybe obsess about comfort while watching like a three hour movie. Yeah. And, uh, it was an amazing, uh, and it just flies by like rewatching that movie. It's like, uh, it's like, you know, it's so much fun. It's so engrossing. Um, but it's also

[00:13:11] very, it is a very clear movie. You understand the themes. It's a thing. It's not like the second view. I got this new understanding of it. I got it pretty much for the first one. It was just like an amazing adventure and visual treat to go back to it. Uh, but yeah, it's, uh, if I can, I will try to get like an IMAX screening towards the end of September, if there's anything available, but, uh, yeah, I don't think now it's in the cards that I'm going to be watching, uh,

[00:13:39] in, in, in, in a big screen, unfortunately. Um, one other plug that I wanted to give is I was on the, my, our friend Rohan's podcast, the Pan India project. Um, if people haven't checked that out, I've also added a link on our Patreon for free. I think it's free access. So you can go through it on that. And guys, I, I forget sometimes when we step out of our lovely audience of Khandan and a reel or

[00:14:06] something goes viral or reaches numbers, the amount of hate and attack you get, it is crazy out there, people like it is crazy. I don't know if you got a chance to see some of the comments or the things on the reels, but like, uh, always a joy to be called a terrorist in 70 different ways. When you make a point about Bollywood, uh, which is a joy, but I just want to say it was a really cool conversation.

[00:14:32] The reels are a small part of what the whole discussion was. So I would advise people, you know, check it out. It's a really fun conversation. We all want the highlight to highlight. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, and the funny part is also it was because you go to another, uh, podcast and you're basically condensing your point of views that you always have on Khandan anyway, right? Like I've talked about my problems with Hrithik and then also the Hrithik problem that

[00:15:01] I called on the podcast. Um, and people just had no understanding what I was saying. They were talking about Fiza, Fiza, Fiza, which was completely beyond what I was trying to say. And, uh, also just the fact that I was basically calling it, um, uh, the Hrithik problem, but that not that Hrithik is a problem, but again, all of that goes lost in, in longer context. And I knew what I was doing though. I knew what I was doing. So you're, you're baiting them.

[00:15:30] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if, if dumb people want to, you know, spend their time and then comment. So yeah, why not? You know, but, uh, it was a very, very fun episode. People should check it out. Um, shall we get a talk about, uh, the Ramayana trailer? Cause it just dropped literally last night. I love that the whole segue from getting all the hate is directly to Ramayana.

[00:15:58] I know, I know, I know. It's like, like, it's like, why is a Pakistan you talking about? You Muslims. But the funny part is, I'm actually, is one of the movies I'm excited about. Like I was like, I'm really looking forward to this one because it's so much in the past, I guess, that Islamophobia doesn't come into it. You know, like this. But also, uh, Namit Malhotra's Ramayana has to give it its proper title.

[00:16:27] Sorry, Amrita. I got a PR note. We have to credit Namit Malhotra and we have to credit D Neg, his studio. I've never seen this in a PR email that we have to credit this person. Wow. Um, so yeah, that's why I'm crediting him now. Uh, don't worry, Namit, I got you. Uh, but like, what was I going to say? Like, no, I can't remember what I was going to say.

[00:16:56] Um, but yeah, Namit Malhotra, no, like Namit Malhotra specifically wants like non-Indians and non-Hindus to watch this, uh, series. He didn't specify Pakistanis though, Amrita. No, no, no. He wants like white people. Yeah. But, uh, unfortunately now the Pakistanis also get to watch it. Yeah. Unfortunately, but it is very apparent through all of the press run that's been

[00:17:23] happening that this is not for brown people. The velvet rope is there, you know, like I literally, in the, in the press note, let me read it out to you. It says, uh, also, so this is the, she gets the kindly credit D Neg when featuring the trailer and the film stills. Also talent will not be available at this time for interviews, but we will certainly advise on their availability in the coming months. It's like they're literally doing interviews with every white outlet out there,

[00:17:53] but for like the Desi people, they're not available. It's hilarious. I thought that was just so funny. Yeah. They've been shopping around town. Uh, they've been going to Comic-Con to promote this. They're not to Hall H, uh, which, um, yeah, but yeah, the trailer released at Comic-Con and now

[00:18:15] it's up for public, um, last night. They got Sony international to distribute it, right? So it's literally going to be everywhere. So it is a big deal. It's not like, I mean, we're laughing about it, but this is a massive, massive, uh, scale, uh, you know, release that they're doing. And my thing was, I was watching, like, I literally watched the trailer, uh, last night before going to bed.

[00:18:40] And I was just like happy to see what Kareena Kapoor's PowerPoint, uh, presentation in Singham 3 was about, you know, I want to, I want, that's what I really want. Um, do you want that real, like Kareena presents and then it then moves into like the intro to this movie to be Kareena Kapoor, just so that Asim is happy. I think that would make a lot of people happy because a lot of people are

[00:19:06] complaining about specific things and adding a bit of Kareena would have improved these things. Um, but let's talk a bit about the trailer. Uh, Sujoy, do you want to go first? What did you think about the trailer? Yeah. To begin with, when I scrolled through their channel, I thought like six different trailers and I was like, what's happening? Oh, it's all in different languages. Then I had to choose the Hindi one. And then I saw it's four and a half minutes long. And I'm like,

[00:19:31] this movie is going to be long when the trailer is this long. Uh, third, uh, I was happy to see Arun Govil play Dasrat who was the TV Ramayana of the, uh, TV Ram of Ramayana, you know, um, like he was the Ram of my childhood, like from Agarbattis to movie posters to like actual posters

[00:19:55] that people were actually, you know, uh, doing puja around the Ram, the face of Ram or the human face of Ram had been Arun Govil for a huge, uh, for generations. And to see him come back in this as the father of Ram is quite a nice touch. I would say, uh, I didn't expect Lara Dutta to play KK, uh, in this, um, she came out from nowhere and the age difference between her and Ranbir is,

[00:20:22] uh, but then she's the step mom. So I don't know, maybe, um, Ranbir isn't looking that good as Ram, to be honest for me. I don't know if I want him to sell me, uh, the image of Ram, but so far not so good. Um, and then the special effects, um, it looks all very, very digital. Like it, nothing looks photo real to me yet. Uh, I don't know how much more work is going to happen from now until

[00:20:51] release, but on the face value of this trailer, I'm not sold, but obviously I would be watching it. I'm not sold. Um, I guess this movie is getting released in two parts. So I, I think the part of Hanuman and Vanarsena is not there yet in this movie. So, uh, I think Sunny Deul is playing Hanuman. So that will come in part two because we didn't get to see Hanuman in the trailer either. Um,

[00:21:19] yeah, my excitement, excitement level pre watching the trailer and post watching the trailer remains unaffected. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Amrita, what about you? Um, I don't know. Like I like, look, this is a, it's not like I'm rooting for this to fail or anything. It's nothing like that. Like I,

[00:21:44] I want to have a good time at the movies. Um, and it's a great story. Um, I just feel like the entire environment around this film is so toxic right now. It's toxic on a political level, but also on an industry level, it is so toxic. Like if you go to Reddit and you see what people

[00:22:07] are saying about Ranbir and about, uh, Saipa Lavi and about, um, you know, and weirdly enough, like about Alia and like the relationship between Alia and Ranbir sort of like coming back to this. And, um, also all this stuff about like, you know, now suddenly Ranbir Singh is the blue eyed boy. So everyone's like, well, he would have been an excellent Ram. And these are people like,

[00:22:33] you know, a year ago would have been like, uh, Ranbir Singh isn't good enough to play the security guard outside their building. So it's, uh, I don't know. Like I know there are people out there in this country that actually enjoy the movies. I just don't get to see them anymore because all I get to hear are the kind of people that call you a terrorist, Asim. Um, and they're just so loud and

[00:22:59] they're just so everywhere and they're just sort of like poisoning the air everywhere they are. So I can only talk about this movie in terms of like my, uh, experience of it. I don't think I can talk about this in a larger context because the larger context is just poison. And from what I have seen, like I, and this is sort of like contrary to what everyone else seems to be thinking,

[00:23:29] because I've seen like Yash getting a lot of good press on the back of this trailer and everyone being like, Oh yeah, he's like really great. I actually think the opposite. Like I liked Ranbir and, uh, well, there wasn't much to Saipalavi's, uh, introduction, but I thought Ranbir as Ram was like a lot more, I mean, this is okay. Before I, there's like 70 things that are occurring to me right

[00:23:55] now, but there's this thing that a lot of people that play Ram do, which is they kind of play him as this very stoic character, you know, and they sort of like leech away any personality other than writers from this character. And I think like that is the wrong way to play it. And I feel like Ranbir's strength is that he has this look, and this is something that I remember from Rajya,

[00:24:25] right? Like that was the first time I clocked it. But Ranbir has this, this thing where there's this thing behind his eyes that sort of suggests that he's secretly, you know, um, like there's like depth to him. Like there's, like, he might be a psycho, he might be a great guy, he might be like, you know, a bunch of different things. And I think like, that's why he was so, uh, he was like the first choice

[00:24:52] for Animal. And that's why Sandeep Reddywanga wanted him for Animal. Um, and this is a really great opportunity for Ranbir to put his stamp on the character of Ram. But I don't know if he has the space as a performer to do that. I don't think he'll be allowed to interpret this character. I think he's,

[00:25:18] he's just going to be asked to portray it. And it's just sort of like, really surprises me that Ranbir said yes to this film, to be very honest. Like, I don't, I don't really know what the strategy is here career wise, or even art wise. But Yash is in a completely different movie from Ranbir and

[00:25:43] Sai Pallavi. Like, he's chewing the scenery, a lot like Saif in the Prabhast version. Like, I don't know if you remember, right? But it's that same. Yeah, exactly. Asim is like, it's burnt into my retinas. But, uh, like, he's playing it tonally at the same place that, that Saif was playing at. And I genuinely

[00:26:08] feel like that is a mistake. Because if you are playing this movie for a non Indian audience, a non Hindu audience, then it's a really great time to introduce the complexity of Ravana as a character, because Ravana is a complex character in the actual, um, you know, uh, story. Um, he's a scholar. Um,

[00:26:35] he's a very devout and pious man. Um, but he's also like, you know, um, laid low by his hubris. And, um, and also there's like a lot of things that he does that are seen as being evil or whatever in the story. He has like really good reasons to do all of those things. So it's a very complex character. And the way that I see from the trailer, Yash is not playing it with any kind of complexity whatsoever. He's displaying it as like, I'm evil and I do evil things. And look at me,

[00:27:04] I'm just cool. Um, and that's actually in my mind, a very, like it, it turns it into a cartoon performance rather than like a real performance. And I don't know if that is the best way to do it. I think his like point of reference is very much, uh, how, um, uh, Bhalal Devas played by Rana Dagobati. Oh, yeah. It just feels like it, like I can make that straight,

[00:27:33] you know, connection where, whereas Ravana is, it needs to be a lot more layered and, uh, there's other, you know, um, parts of his stories where he, he has other emotions rather than rage and villainy. Well, I mean, like coming as a person that only has read the Wikipedia of the story, I have never read it. Like I'm coming at it as like an outsider. Right. Um, I thought, uh, the trailer looked great.

[00:28:02] Um, I thought the, the special effects for me worked. The scale is so big. Um, it did sometimes, especially when those giant characters are jumping, it reminded me to a certain degree to world of Warcraft, that movie that came out, you know? Um, and my fear is in a way that the movie just becomes a world of Warcraft. And what I'm looking forward to is to get those deeper religious themes out of

[00:28:30] it in a way, you know, what makes this story so important for, you know, the largest population in the world. And, um, in terms of, you know, like what, you know, these bigger themes in a way, I just don't want it to be a special effects laden adventure story. Um, you know, and I mean, for me, I'm comparing it with Adipurush to a certain degree and everything that I've seen now is

[00:28:55] like a hundred times better for me. Right. So there's, there's no comparison for me here. Uh, there was one person that had written a tweet and, uh, I, I think I'm paraphrasing. It's like a screenshot of, uh, Ranbir as Ram. And they said, bro is about to say, Sita, I want to go to the and I thought that just killed me. That was the funniest thing. And it's kind of like messed up

[00:29:21] with my brain that tweet. But, um, again, I don't know, is he age appropriate for this role? What, what age was Ram supposed to be? Like young. Young, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That is one thing that I was like, he has that expression. And I don't know if that's the expression he's going for of like, um, uh, a father who is, has already bought the Valentine gifts for his wife and he's being

[00:29:49] very smug about it. That's the expression I feel that we had in this one. And I don't know if it was maybe an age thing and that might happen. I also saw people that were saying that Sai Pallavi is not pretty, which I like, I don't understand. Who are these people? How people think, right? Like, I don't understand it. Um, um, but yeah, I thought Yash was great. I thought the visuals are so massive.

[00:30:16] Like it, like, like how did the Adipurash team even try to make that movie? Like, how are they even like, you know, and I feel this scale justifies the story, right? Like this massive epic again, from an outsider speaking, because this is really what Namit Malhotra, who I don't feel is a good, like he's plastered everywhere, but I don't think he's a good ambassador for this movie. And he's taking central stage with all of these Comic-Con interviews and stuff like that. And for

[00:30:45] me, he's not a compelling storyteller. So I think that's a mistake on how they're sending the story. Um, but, um, and especially like, uh, the, the, uh, director who, who's the director? Sorry. He's like completely on the backend of it. So it's a weird way to present a movie where the producer is doing all the talking and even the stars are like on the background. I just think it's

[00:31:10] really weird. I don't think he speaks really well. Um, but coming, he did say that this needs to appeal to non Hindu audiences, right? Me included, unfortunately. And I was missing a lot of context in the trailer. I felt the trailer, like you're mentioning these characters, you know, specifically, I don't know who these characters are, but I think they should elicit some sort of emotional excitement. And I, I don't feel for a full minute.

[00:31:40] Yeah. The trailer itself sort of takes the, the audience for granted that they know the story and these are the beats, you know? Yeah. And that's, that's weird because I don't like, I don't know the beats. Like, so like I know, I know some elements of it, but I feel like the trailer miscalculated then if you're making it a story about for outsiders, then make it in some different way, because this doesn't seem like, oh, Rakulpreet is coming and then her nose is getting cut off,

[00:32:10] which I know, but it's like, I don't think, you know, like John Denver knows, like in Iowa, right? Like, I don't know. So, but John Denver will get 100k likes for his reaction to this. He will, he will. Yeah, yeah. And we will only get dislikes, you know, but it's good, good for John Denver. But yeah, those are, those are kind of my thoughts. I thought the,

[00:32:36] the, the arrow thing is cool. I thought that was really cool. The way he's like flipping around and stuff like that, which I actually, I missed in Odyssey, which I didn't think the arrow shooting was, you know, put into much of a kind of a spotlight. I think they do a good job here. Yeah. I'm honestly kind of excited for it. My point of reference for the Ramayana, the direct reference is the Chinese film industry,

[00:33:05] because they do all these period or religious mythological movies a lot. The recent ones that come to my mind is the Creation of God's Trilogy. The part three is supposed to come out. And these are massive, massive global hits, obviously massive hits in China as well. So, they are built on 150 million budget each for each of these movies. And this is almost three times the

[00:33:30] budget for, for the two movies, I guess, but it's still like $250 million budget for one movie. I'm talking about Ramayana. So I don't know how well it will compare to Creation of Gods. And, and I have some sort of faith in Nitesh Tiwari in telling the story rather than just the effects. Well, are we pretending that this is not somewhere a money laundering scheme?

[00:34:00] Why? I mean, the way that Namit Malhotra is doing all of it, you know, and I get that he's trying to do, you know, whatever, like publicity for DNEG and everything, because every single poster, every single trailer, teaser, whatever you have, is like the award nominated DNEG.

[00:34:25] I get it. I get that's what he's trying to do. And that's also why he wants like non-Indian or non-Desi audiences to watch this film. But the numbers just seem ridiculous to me. Like, what do you mean this cost, you know, $500 million to make? Like, that's a ridiculous number. Yeah, I don't, I don't know.

[00:34:52] Yeah. Especially for an Indian production, which is made in India. That's a lot of money. I don't know. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. No, no, I'm, I'm, and there's a second part coming later this year or is not short yet? What's going on? Does anybody know? I think it's been short simultaneously. So it has. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. Interesting. Well, I hope it works for them. I think it's a big swing.

[00:35:18] I think if they manage to give it more than, give it more themes than it just being a special effects laden film that we can also make like this, I think it could work. Something about the budget though, funnily, because when they initially announced it was like 4,000 crore rupees and that was equivalent to 500 million USD when the conversion.

[00:35:42] And now since the, the, the, the rupee is weaker to the dollar by a lot, it's down to almost $418 million compared to 500 when it was at the time of announcement. So that was funny to me when I recalculated.

[00:35:58] I, I, I think, I also think one thing that they might've underestimated is like, you know, just, just, just, you know, there's a lot of anti-India sentiment going on just across the world. Right. Yeah. I don't know how many John Denver's we were going to go watch like an Indian religious movie. And I think that's a distinction again should be made.

[00:36:27] Is this a mythological movie or is this a religious movie? And I think it's a fine balance and I don't know how they're kind of, you know, the question is, will the RRR audience turn up for this and will they be raving about it? But also the RRR audience is not a $500 million audience. Exactly. That's what I was going to say. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it, I mean, there's no, the thing is with the RRR audience,

[00:36:56] there is a level of ridiculousness to RRR that white people really enjoy. And you cannot do that when you're doing a religious mythological movie, you cannot add that level of ridiculousness to it over the topness to it. Because you have to be respectful on how you're telling the story. Right. So, so it's, it's a really fine balance and the way Namit Malhotra is talking about it.

[00:37:24] I don't know if he has that finesse to be able to do that, you know? So I have, I'm excited to watch the movie, but I worry about these grander ambitions that it has for sure. Yeah. Let's, let's go over to our other trailer that dropped. You were talking about Sunny Deol earlier, Batwara 1947,

[00:37:49] earlier call Lahore 1947, which an amazing marketing genius thought, let's find a worst name for a movie. Directed by Rajkumar Santoshi, the return of Preeti Zinta, who also had a very unfortunate tweet that she sent out only this week. But again, maybe everything is leaning towards the right wing at the moment. So Amrita, what did you think of Batwara?

[00:38:21] I, the trailer, the trailer. We haven't seen the movie yet. Yeah. I have no words. Like it is, I saw a tweet from somebody or like maybe it was a comment on Reddit where they said, Sunny Deville must have two portraits of Gandhi and Jinnah in his house. So he can do their puja every day to thank them for his career because that's all. You know, like India, Pakistan, India, Pakistan, India, Pakistan.

[00:38:52] Yeah. I, I, did you guys ever watch this film called Lajo? No. It was Farida Jalal. And it came out like, it must've been like 20 years ago. Mammo. Mammo. That's right. Mammo, not Lajo. Um, and Mammo is the story of, and I remember like, this was like, it's, it sparked this conversation about like, Oh, it's a Shambanagal movie. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:39:20] And it was about like this woman who is sort of like left behind in Pakistan and she doesn't want to leave. Um, and she basically lives with this Muslim family. And she lives with her family that moves into her home. And then years later, like somebody from her family that moved to India, they come back to see how she is. And she basically, and this is like this whole conversation about identity, you know, like she's Pakistani, but she's Hindu. And she's like, but this, or she's, was it sick? Or she,

[00:39:50] was she Hindu? I can't remember. Um, but basically she's Punjabi and she's like living on that side of the border. And she's just like, you know, like this is my home. And like, what does that mean? Like your identity and like your connection to your piece of soil, like, et cetera. And this is weirdly enough, that same movie, except it's the other way. You know, where you have like Shabana Azmi, and then you have like, um, you know, uh, you know,

[00:40:20] like Muslim Sunny deal. He's very aggressively, uh, Pakistani. And it's just, I, I, I had to laugh. Like, this is just ridiculous. And then there's that charisma vacuum that is like current deal. Like, I'm sorry. Like he's a, he seems like a nice kid, but my God, like the way he's saying his lines, just, you know, absolutely not. You don't know my father. See,

[00:40:48] if he had actually said it that way, it would have actually been better, but he actually just goes like, tu janta niya mera babkon hai. It just goes off from there. So it's, um, yeah, it's going to be a little bit of a stinker. I feel. Oh, really? Okay. Yeah. Why? You thought it was going to be good? Yeah. Yeah. I thought it was going to be good. why, why am I like suddenly like the pro? I don't know what's happening here.

[00:41:18] the thing is the, the, let's like, I, I, I've been beaten down so much with this kind of storytelling. Uh, I feel somebody competent that can at least give me the visual of sunny. They were punching somebody and it feeling like a punch. That's all. And I will take it, you know, at least somebody is playing a good Pakistani, a good Muslim. I will take it, you know? Um,

[00:41:48] so that's where my base level is at. Oh my God. Yeah. It's, it's really bad. It's been bad. Things are bad. My mental health is not in a good state. Um, no, I was like, I was like, have you read the play? Is this based on a play, right? Or have you read it or like, I don't know, seen it? Anybody? Okay. No. Yeah. Uh, so I'm happy to see a Raj Kumar Santoshi movie coming back.

[00:42:17] It has moments where it feels Ghatak in Lahore. Like it definitely feels that, um, which in a way I'm okay with. I'm hoping, and this, this hope I know is completely misplaced. And this is probably going to be my biggest deception, uh, uh, deception here is a disappointment. Sorry, is that Amir Khan is producing. So the problem is with Amir Khan producing, you have this hope that there will be some finesse to it,

[00:42:46] some thought behind the movie, but the things that Amir Khan has produced recently, the track record is not there, unfortunately. So I'm kind of in the middle of these two things. I'm happy to see Priti Zinta back. And I think she looks amazing in it, which I'm, I'm, I'm happy that, you know, uh, she's back on screen. I do feel Shabana Azmi is hamming it up like crazy. Like it is so hammy. Um, but I don't know,

[00:43:16] maybe it's the way the trailer is just matching the volume of the performances around her. You can't be like subtle and cute when Sunny Deval is at 19. Yeah. You know? Yeah. But like the way I was thinking of, you know, of Ghatak in Ghatak is that, is it Ilarun that's playing the crazy woman that's walking around and Mira husband Mardia and all that. That's the level Shabana is playing, but she seems to be like a normal character. Like she doesn't need to be like, you know, that,

[00:43:45] but the level was so high for me. I was like, wow, what's going on? And then the villainy of the Pakistanis is just like, it's cartoonish this world. Like it's cartoonish. Like, you know, like, yeah, it's like, I've never met such an evil Pakistani and I've been around my family. That is weird though, because, you know, in the era of the Ghyals and the Ghataks, the villains were the local Gundas. And now,

[00:44:13] because we are in a state where, you know, the nefariousness of the people around us, there has to be a religion or a state associated with the villainy. And that, that is so sad. The, the amount of talent that is involved here, Santosh Sivan has done the cinematography, A.R. Aiman has done the music, Javed Akhtar has written the lyrics and Rajkumar Santoshi is directing, produced by Aamir Khan.

[00:44:41] And that gives me some sort of solace, but having said that, seeing the, as watching this trailer, it all sort of crumbles. I don't know how the movie is going to be a lot. The movie has to be a lot better than the trailer for me to like it. Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. That's it. That's it. Yeah. Um, no, it's interesting.

[00:45:08] Like I remember I was having a discussion about this with somebody. I don't remember who, but, um, I, I remembered, uh, Ali Abbas Zafar's, uh, movie Bharat with, um, uh, Salman and Katrina. And Ali Abbas, obviously being a Muslim, uh, filmmaker, he had this small thing that I really appreciated in Bharat is when the train arrived in, um, um, in Pakistan from India, it,

[00:45:37] everybody in the train had been massacred. Right. And that shows you that massacres were happening on both sides. You know, people in India were massacring people that are going, were going to Pakistan and Pakistanis also had to deal with just the rivers of blood when those, you know, doors were open of those trains that were coming back. Right. And it's such a small decision in terms of storytelling where clearly here in Bhattwara,

[00:46:06] you're only seeing the Pakistani stabbing the people leaving to India. Right. And that's just one of those one-sided storytelling that I, unfortunately I've just gotten used to now, you know, like it's just, this is what it is. And this is, if you want to watch it, this is how you, you have to accept it. Um, so it, it did miss me. It did, it did, uh, make me think that, you know, you're adding Amir to the story,

[00:46:33] but I don't trust Amir in these kinds of scenarios because he will very much take a one-sided approach and make Pakistanis very much the villain if he needs to. Um, and that's, that's just a shame, you know, that's just a shame to, I think a balance, like in anything that we talked about, we talked about even Ramayan or Dark Knight, the way, if a villain is nuanced, if the villain has shades,

[00:47:01] it's instead of being one note cartoonish, it just makes it a better story. It makes it a better movie. And I don't think that's going to be the case. He's very much, who is the actor that's playing the villain? I'm blanking on his name, but he's very much. Yeah. He's very much playing Danny Denzongpa in Ghatak times 11. Right. Yeah. And the other thing that, you know, when you're going through those credits, Sujoy, all of those names are great,

[00:47:31] but they were great 10 years ago, 15 years ago. Right. And I, there's definitely a trend in what audience want. They want us to hearken back to how movies used to be, but I don't know if they have the skillset to be able to deliver something, you know, for current audiences. So those are the kind of, you know, little thoughts I had. I, I also don't know if I'm going to watch this in theaters. Like that's the other thing.

[00:47:59] I might just do it and watch that, like wait, how bad the reviews are. Cause I don't think they're going to be good. But then also just like what my mental health is doing at that time. You know, and what, what else is going on. So in the world, if I want to take again, some one-sided approach or not. But yeah, I don't know. Like, I think a lot of people after border two were also saying that still, it's kind of an even handed movie and stuff like that. So I don't know if that's the case or not.

[00:48:30] But yeah, I don't, I don't have much trust in the people that have kind of like put this project together, unfortunately. Yeah. Any other thoughts, Samrita about Bhattwara? Um, I mean, it's also just, um, this tonally, it doesn't seem to know like what kind of movie it wants to be. Um, because, you know, like there's this whole thing of like, Oh, like, you know,

[00:48:59] like this is like a prestige sort of, um, film, but then also it is like Dhaik Loka Hat. So like, what is it? Because it can't be like both. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. that's what it is. Unfortunately, nothing else more than that. we're going to be talking about Spider-Man, a brand new day, but that's going to be a Patreon exclusive. So you, if you want to hear our review on it, join us on Patreon.

[00:49:29] Um, but, uh, that's it for this episode. Amrita, where can people find you online? Sadly, I am back, uh, on Twitter. so you can find me on Twitter. Sadness in your voice. She's not even saying her username. Just find her. You do the hard work. I've come back on Twitter. You do the hard work of finding me. Sujoy.

[00:49:58] I'm mostly on Instagram at 93K. Uh, that's where I post my stories, my, my pictures, et cetera. Yep. And then you can find all our video content on YouTube at youtube.com slash Kadan podcast. I'm at Asim Burney. I have a few videos due on Patreon that I need to record. I just haven't had the time or strength for it at the moment, but I need to get on those. Uh, people seem to enjoy them. Um, because I've literally had like three months of stuff that I watch, which is, I will,

[00:50:27] the problem is I went through my list on letterbox and I was like, this is so many movies. Like there's no way I can make any content out of this. So I need to figure out how to present it for Patreon, but, uh, join also our Patreon. If is, uh, for our odyssey review and our Spider-Man brand new day review, which is going to be a Patreon exclusive. So drop us an email at you podcasting at gmail.com. And thank you for listening.

[00:50:57] Also, I'll see you next time. Bye. Bye. I'm not so much.