Dr Helmut Marko on Red Bull's 2025 drivers, celebrating Max Verstappen's win & more

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[00:01:20] Perfect. Thank you so much for yet another session with you, Dr. Marko. Like I said, I love your stories and I'm very grateful I get to take your stories to the audiences as well. Now, fourth title for Max Verstappen. How did you end up celebrating your second prodigy after Vettel to win four titles? What did you do to celebrate this achievement?

[00:02:10] It happened in Las Vegas.

[00:02:11] Now, I have to say, I'm not a big fan of Las Vegas generally, but for partying and celebration about championships is the ideal place.

[00:02:23] I almost thought you'd say you went to an art exhibition looking at another piece of art over reading one of your famous books that you've recommended on our show before.

[00:02:32] Not at three and four o'clock in the morning.

[00:02:37] But, you know, the story is also about Red Bull missing out on a double, okay, which gave us a very interesting season, the 2024 Formula One season.

[00:02:51] Now, if you take a step back as a fan, did you enjoy the season? I know you always have a Red Bull hat on, as you should, which you've had for several decades.

[00:03:00] But as a fan, what were your thoughts on 2024? So many teams and drivers competing and being unpredictable.

[00:03:06] I think unpredictable is the right word because it was depending on the daily form on the circuit.

[00:03:14] We had four teams who could win. Fortunately, Red Bull was max 1-9 out of the Camrys.

[00:03:22] And that is part of the success for the championship.

[00:03:26] But I think for the fans, it was a very good season, especially after 2023, where only one race we lost.

[00:03:39] But nevertheless, and also to see a new Verstappen.

[00:03:46] I mean, the race in Las Vegas, if someone would have told me Max would wave through first Hamilton and then the two Ferraris, I said, you're crazy.

[00:03:57] Max never would do such a thing.

[00:03:59] But it just shows how much he improved.

[00:04:04] He did what was necessary to win the championship.

[00:04:06] Just two more questions on 2025.

[00:04:10] And this new Max Verstappen you're talking of, which is more mature, which is being able to see the long game, which is picking his battles, as we call it.

[00:04:20] In a campaign like we saw in 2024, and maybe I sound critical for having zero world titles.

[00:04:25] Do you think that the one key area for Max to improve could be in wheel-to-wheel racing?

[00:04:31] And I'll explain a little.

[00:04:33] Given the number of penalty points, given the number of points he's dropped, if 25 is a full season where so many teams and drivers are closed,

[00:04:43] do you think Max needs to make certain changes and sort of pick battles where he doesn't get penalties or clean it up a little bit?

[00:04:50] I mean, penalty points is a different story.

[00:04:53] But as far as I remember, there was one crash in Austria.

[00:04:57] But he survived.

[00:04:59] Lando didn't.

[00:05:00] And I think that was tough racing.

[00:05:03] Like everybody in the old days let him race.

[00:05:09] That was one incident.

[00:05:10] And the other one was in the last race in Abu Dhabi.

[00:05:14] He had a very good start.

[00:05:17] Science didn't have a good start.

[00:05:20] So it enabled him to.

[00:05:22] And there was a chance.

[00:05:25] I think Piastri wasn't looking to the side.

[00:05:28] I think he was looking forward.

[00:05:30] That's a racing accident in the first corner.

[00:05:33] That can happen.

[00:05:34] But otherwise, Max is Max.

[00:05:37] And that's part of his charisma, part of his personality.

[00:05:42] If there is a chance, he takes it.

[00:05:46] And that he is a hard driver, a tough driver.

[00:05:49] That's also part of his image.

[00:05:51] And I don't think he has to change.

[00:05:55] And penalty points.

[00:05:57] He is a character.

[00:05:59] He has his own opinion and also expresses his own opinion.

[00:06:05] I love how he turned the penalty points question into saying, I have 8 out of 12 points.

[00:06:09] Maybe I'll get a penalty and get a race ban and stay at home with the kid and Kelly.

[00:06:12] I loved that part of his, you know, just taking things as it comes.

[00:06:17] But missing out on the constructors championship, if I was to just wait upon, was it down to others catching up and Red Bulls car issues that you all were trying to solve through the season?

[00:06:29] Or was it a large part of Checo not pulling his side of the weight?

[00:06:33] I mean, Checo was more than 280 points behind Max.

[00:06:39] If you compare the other three top teams, the biggest difference is Piastri and Lando.

[00:06:48] And I think it's maybe 60 or maybe 80 points.

[00:06:52] So, 200 points more.

[00:06:54] That explains why we lost the constructors championship.

[00:06:59] Understood.

[00:07:00] And in your role as Red Bull, and now I'm going to switch to the future of Red Bull with a number of drivers that come through the system under your keen eye, under your wisdom.

[00:07:13] Do you, while celebrating Max's win, applauding his talent, you know, have another eye on, hey, who is the other driver coming through the ranks in the next three, five, seven years?

[00:07:24] Could be the next lead driver for Red Bull Racing.

[00:07:28] Do you always keep an eye out on talent or do you sometimes just sit back and say, let me just enjoy Max because there probably might not be anyone like him?

[00:07:36] So, basically, it's a great pleasure and enjoyment to work with Max.

[00:07:42] But, you know, Max won't drive forever, especially not as long as Alonso or Hamilton are doing.

[00:07:55] And the junior team prospect is to find new talents.

[00:08:01] And we are not looking for a new Max.

[00:08:05] We are looking for a new champion.

[00:08:07] And I think the next one, which looks really promising, is David Lindblad.

[00:08:17] He's very, his father is Swedish, the mother is Indian.

[00:08:23] So, it's a very seldom combination.

[00:08:27] And he was, in his first year, or always in Formula 4, even if he didn't win the championship.

[00:08:35] The same appeals to F3.

[00:08:38] He could have won the championship, but circumstances and so on.

[00:08:42] But what is making him outstanding is his pure speed.

[00:08:49] In one of the Formula 3 races, he overtook in one lap, I don't know, 10 or 14 other drivers.

[00:08:58] He won the race from being last in these tricky conditions, bad, dry and so on.

[00:09:07] So, if I look back, I met him first in, where did I meet him?

[00:09:16] Portimao.

[00:09:17] Portimao has a very attractive go-kart circuit.

[00:09:22] And we had a Formula 1 race and I met him and his father.

[00:09:26] And it was David who was leading the conversation with 12 years or so.

[00:09:33] So, that also was something which is not normal.

[00:09:39] But he had a clear vision and a clear way how to achieve it.

[00:09:46] And so, I can't remember the year, but it must have been when Portimao was the Grand Prix.

[00:09:55] And from then we...

[00:09:57] During the COVID years, I believe, that's when we had Portimao was filling in.

[00:10:01] Yeah.

[00:10:02] Yeah.

[00:10:03] So, that was about the year...

[00:10:07] 2020 or 2021, I think, the two years we had Formula 1 racing there.

[00:10:13] Yeah.

[00:10:13] And since that, he moved steadily forward.

[00:10:16] And he will be next year in Formula 2.

[00:10:20] He is doing a very good preparation.

[00:10:25] The test was okay.

[00:10:28] We are doing a special program for him, sending him to New Zealand in his Freca Championship.

[00:10:35] So, and the goal is to win it.

[00:10:38] So, he gets the necessary points for a super license.

[00:10:41] So, he will be 18 only in August or September, I guess.

[00:10:46] Yeah.

[00:10:47] Yeah.

[00:10:47] There was that interesting banter between Christian Horner and Toto Wolff, where Christian

[00:10:52] said, you know, the 18-year-old, you know, permission being taken off by the FIA will help

[00:10:59] Mercedes with Antonelli.

[00:11:01] And Toto Wolff said, no, actually, it'll help you with Arvind Lindblad.

[00:11:04] But very interesting to hear of your first meeting, where he was leading the conversation.

[00:11:08] And, you know, you sort of had the wisdom to then sign him.

[00:11:12] But were there any other teams that he was probably talking to?

[00:11:15] Did he have to, like, Max Verstappen pick one or the other or something?

[00:11:19] I think the conversation was straightforward.

[00:11:24] And maybe he was talking to other teams.

[00:11:27] But in the end, Red Bull was more attractive and he signed a long-term contract with us.

[00:11:33] That's very exciting.

[00:11:35] What do you believe, Dr. Marco, since you've seen him, you know, his transition in the last

[00:11:40] three to four years?

[00:11:41] What do you think is his main strength?

[00:11:43] Because to just pick your words, you said, we are not looking for the next Max.

[00:11:45] We're looking for our next champion.

[00:11:47] And in that same statement, we've said we are hoping that the next champion is Arvind.

[00:11:52] So, where do you think his strengths lie in the car?

[00:11:55] First of all, it's his pure speed.

[00:11:58] He proved that in go-kart and in all the junior categories.

[00:12:03] He's very smart.

[00:12:05] And he is honest to himself.

[00:12:11] And he makes the mistakes.

[00:12:12] He doesn't look for excuses.

[00:12:15] And he's looking forward.

[00:12:16] He's always one category ahead already.

[00:12:20] That's also from his physical side, as from his mental preparation.

[00:12:24] And when he goes in a new formula, you know, he's one of the few ones who went directly

[00:12:29] from Formula 4 to F3.

[00:12:31] He has his opinion and he knows how to prepare.

[00:12:37] And he commits to it step by step.

[00:12:41] So, I would say it's a very good combination between mental and driving skills.

[00:12:50] And I know through our previous conversations over the years, how much you have appreciated.

[00:12:58] I'm here.

[00:12:59] I know the mic has gone off.

[00:13:00] But I know how much you appreciate first-year drivers, Dr. Marco.

[00:13:05] And talking of first-year drivers, I know that Arvid himself has done extremely well within

[00:13:13] the first year that he's been in championships as well.

[00:13:17] What I wanted to hence pick on is, and one of the other things you've always told me is

[00:13:22] F3 to F2, the big switch is in the tires.

[00:13:26] And the drivers need time to understand the tires.

[00:13:28] So, what do you believe is his key area of improvement, you know, in Formula 2 where he needs to focus on?

[00:13:36] I mean, the first three test days just happened in Abu Dhabi.

[00:13:42] And he improved day by day.

[00:13:46] In the beginning, he was around three days behind his teammate, Marty, who already did the full season.

[00:13:56] And on the last day, on the qualifying run, he was already ahead of him.

[00:14:01] So, that shows he watches.

[00:14:05] He looks what his teammate is doing and he knows where to improve.

[00:14:11] So, the first step was okay.

[00:14:13] But we don't want not only to be just ahead of his teammate,

[00:14:17] we want him to win or to be one of the top players in the championship.

[00:14:22] And that is his commitment, looking.

[00:14:28] He knows what other drivers are doing, their strengths and weaknesses.

[00:14:34] So, he has an overworld picture.

[00:14:36] And that, I think, is the base for big success in the future.

[00:14:40] We keep our fingers crossed for that.

[00:14:42] You shared insights on him going to New Zealand and doing the Freca.

[00:14:46] Do you also have any TPC tests in plan for him in 25 so that he can get more used to a Formula 1 car when the opportunity comes?

[00:14:56] Yes, that's a plan.

[00:15:27] For example, Liam Lawson didn't have this opportunity.

[00:15:32] And also, Hatcher to a certain amount didn't have this opportunity.

[00:15:38] And this will change for Arvid.

[00:15:42] If he makes a very good season in Formula 2, that he can go with good experience in the Formula 1 in 2026, maybe.

[00:15:51] And I understand why TPC tests are important and the familiarity.

[00:15:57] I know Franco Colapinto has extremely impressed everyone with the limited amount of experience coming into Formula 1.

[00:16:04] And, you know, matching Alexander Albon.

[00:16:08] Now, if I was to still stay on 25, you know, now there are four FP1 sessions that Red Bull and Racing Bulls will have to give away.

[00:16:19] Any light on who could get those sessions?

[00:16:22] Because you're literally moving up a lot of drivers on the ladder.

[00:16:26] Could it be Vasa who gets a chance?

[00:16:28] Could it even be Arvid, in this case, who gets a few FP1s in his way?

[00:16:34] I am on Thursday in Fianza at Racing Bulls.

[00:16:38] And we will discuss it.

[00:16:40] So it's too early to give you a sufficient answer.

[00:16:44] Sure.

[00:16:46] Thank you.

[00:16:46] And hence, if I can sort of just pull out a larger scenario for 2025, for you to give promotions and for this whole conversation that's happening around your second driver or Red Bull Racing,

[00:17:03] has a decision been made on Checo Perez?

[00:17:06] Is it just waiting to be announced?

[00:17:08] Or where does that side of the conversation lie, Dr. Marco?

[00:17:12] There are negotiations ongoing and I am positive that there will be a decision and announcement this week.

[00:17:23] And I believe this was one of the first times that board of directors were involved in a driver decision.

[00:17:31] So when you say negotiations, I assume it's settling in on his contract, which was signed earlier in the year?

[00:17:37] It's a complex story.

[00:17:38] You're right.

[00:17:39] It was the first time that the shareholders were involved.

[00:17:42] But as I said, positive negotiations ongoing.

[00:17:47] But be patient.

[00:17:49] I believe this week will be decisions and announcement done.

[00:17:54] We look forward to that decision.

[00:17:58] Absolutely.

[00:17:59] I have one question on each Red Bull driver, Dr. Marco.

[00:18:07] It's a very simple one.

[00:18:08] So the drivers I have chosen to ask you questions for, Verstappen, Sunoda, Lawson and Hartjar.

[00:18:16] Okay.

[00:18:17] And the question is, what do you think is Max Verstappen's greatest strength?

[00:18:23] And how does it shape his future in Formula 1?

[00:18:27] Max showed his outstanding abilities in Brazil.

[00:18:33] You know, there was a pressure.

[00:18:35] It's a world championship decision.

[00:18:37] Very, very tricky conditions.

[00:18:41] And he made one race without any mistake.

[00:18:45] And in the last, I think, 17 laps, one fastest lap by the other, which was demonstrating how good that psychologically showing the others what he's able to do.

[00:19:00] That was clearly one of the most classical drives, which I think every Formula 1 fan enjoyed just for the sheer driving talent that was on display.

[00:19:10] So much so that Lando Norris a couple of nights ago had to change his statement saying it was all talent and not just luck.

[00:19:16] That's the power of Max Verstappen.

[00:19:18] But if I can switch to Yuki Sunoda, who could be one of the candidates for the 2025 seat in the Red Bull.

[00:19:25] What do you think is Yuki's biggest strength, Dr. Marco?

[00:19:30] I think Yuki can be really fast, but it's not very consistent.

[00:19:43] But he improved in all areas.

[00:19:46] He also reduced his emotional moments on the radio.

[00:19:51] And he also improved in his technical feedback.

[00:19:56] So, I think Yuki made a big step forward, a bigger step than we expected from him.

[00:20:03] In 2025, where do you think his biggest area of improvement lies, Dr. Marco?

[00:20:11] More consistency.

[00:20:14] And I mean, he had not many crashes, but for example, in Mexico there had been two.

[00:20:22] So, he must be more, as I said, consistent and less incidents.

[00:20:28] And if I can switch the question to Liam Lawson, where do you think his greatest strength lies to shape his potential in Formula One?

[00:20:36] Liam proved already that he is a very tough racer.

[00:20:40] He is not shy to fight with big names like he did with Alonso, with Hamilton, also with Paris.

[00:20:51] So, now, if he gets a full season, he has to show that he is able to raise the game.

[00:21:01] I mean, in qualifying, he was more or less on the same level like Yuki.

[00:21:07] And we have to see how much more is coming to see if he is becoming one of the great drivers.

[00:21:17] And hence, what could be that one area where you'd sit him down and say, Liam, we need you to focus on this one area for 2025?

[00:21:23] I also would say that he is in the races more consistent, that he does top times with both type of drivers.

[00:21:35] There is some sort of variation still.

[00:21:40] But that is, I mean, I don't think he had 10 Grands Prix so far.

[00:21:45] That just comes with experience.

[00:21:47] And last question, if I can bring Isaac Harjar.

[00:21:50] I know how much of a fan of his talent you are.

[00:21:53] Last year, you promoted him to an FP1 session already.

[00:21:58] Where do you think his talent lies?

[00:22:00] And I think he delivered a very good Formula 2 season in that campos all the way till the last race weekend of the season.

[00:22:08] Where is his greatest strength?

[00:22:10] Should he make a debut in Formula 1 next year?

[00:22:13] First of all, I have to say, Isaac lost more than 80 points through technical issues.

[00:22:19] You know, to still keep motivated and keep the speed was already a big achievement.

[00:22:29] Isaac is fast, but he has to keep his emotions under control and has to focus.

[00:22:36] One example is when Monte Carlo, I think I forgot the driver who threw the safety car, all of a sudden was in front of him.

[00:22:45] And he was moaning and complaining where, why and so on.

[00:22:51] Instead, the guy had cold tires.

[00:22:53] You should have tried to attack him instead of being, yeah, all over the place on the radio.

[00:23:00] So, generally, focus on the important things.

[00:23:09] Make less mistakes, like he had a spin at the test in Abu Dhabi.

[00:23:15] And I think he had also a spin on a Friday outing.

[00:23:20] Correct.

[00:23:20] So, yeah.

[00:23:22] So, be more consistent.

[00:23:25] But the speed and everything is here and the rest comes with routine.

[00:23:30] But, you know, first the decision will be done with repo racing and then the decision at racing pools.

[00:23:39] And we will see who will get the seat.

[00:23:42] Thank you for that insight, Dr. Makwam.

[00:23:44] Thank you.