From Finance to Fiction - Mastering the Art and Business of Writing Ft. Meghna Pant

[00:00:11] So Meghna, it's been a very interesting journey from financial journalism to writing, writing fiction, non-fiction columns, all that you write.

[00:00:19] So how did that happen? Very briefly. And what was the moment that you decided that you want to give it all up to be a writer?

[00:00:29] You know, I think I always tell people that life is like a cross stitch. When you're in it, it seems very chaotic, very messy.

[00:00:36] But when you look back, there's a pattern that emerges. And for me, you know, I never set out to be a writer.

[00:00:41] Like all 90s kids growing up, I was told you can either be a doctor, engineer or lawyer. Otherwise, you're intellectually incapacitated.

[00:00:48] And I decided to become a doctor. My parents actually talked me out of it. I'd gone into medical college and they said,

[00:00:56] no, no, you'll be studying till 30. So pursue something else. So then I went on to study economics, did my MBA because I thought my brother is not going to be working.

[00:01:05] He always wanted to be in the creative field. And I said, this is not money. So I said, one sibling should at least make some money.

[00:01:12] So I did my MBA, I got a scholarship, then I got a job in corporate finance in Switzerland. So I was working there.

[00:01:18] And that's when this kid of, you know, I'm not cut out for the corporate life. That's when I really understood it in my mid 20s.

[00:01:25] And I moved back to Mumbai and I became an anchor, news anchor by sheer coincidence.

[00:01:31] I was at an event and some camera person asked me for a piece to camera.

[00:01:37] And on up Goswami saw it and they called me in for an audition for times now.

[00:01:40] So that's how I became an accidental journalist.

[00:01:43] And from there, I moved to New York.

[00:01:45] I was working there for Bloomberg UTV.

[00:01:47] And while working because my job would get done at four o'clock, I started attending writing courses.

[00:01:53] So Keeda was there, but I never had the sort of bandwidth to pursue writing.

[00:01:58] But those three years, I would attend all kinds of writing courses and really honed in on my skills.

[00:02:03] And I was going through an abusive marriage.

[00:02:05] So it was kind of my therapy also.

[00:02:07] So it became something I got deeply invested in.

[00:02:11] And I didn't think I'd make a career out of it at that point.

[00:02:14] But then in 2012, I got published One and a Half Wife came out.

[00:02:17] It got picked up in two hours by Westland.

[00:02:20] And then the next year, Random House approached me and said, we loved One and a Half Wife.

[00:02:24] Do you have something else?

[00:02:25] And I had a collection of short stories, Happy Birthday.

[00:02:27] And I said, yeah, if publishers are approaching me, that means I must have some sort of voice.

[00:02:33] I must believe in my own talent.

[00:02:35] So I took a chance on myself and left a very lucrative job, NRI job,

[00:02:40] and moved to Mumbai in 2013 and became a full-time writer.

[00:02:44] And I've been so since then.

[00:02:45] How many books has it been since?

[00:02:47] Nine books, 10th coming out very shortly.

[00:02:50] So nine published books.

[00:02:51] Lovely. Wonderful.

[00:02:53] Lots of others in the draft and the folders.

[00:02:58] You've been a writer who has dabbled across fiction and nonfiction.

[00:03:03] And most people think that's a little difficult, you know, because they're different skill sets all together.

[00:03:09] Have you ever felt that?

[00:03:12] So, you know, actually, Kiran, I've written both nonfiction and fiction.

[00:03:15] I've written How to Get Published in India, Feminist Rani.

[00:03:17] And I feel like having a journalistic base has actually really helped me in certain skills.

[00:03:24] First is the ability to write with brevity.

[00:03:27] So that's why you see my short stories.

[00:03:29] I'm primarily, I consider myself still a short story writer.

[00:03:31] I started my career with that.

[00:03:34] The ability to also work against deadlines.

[00:03:37] So I write a lot of columns for different publications around India, and I've never missed a deadline.

[00:03:42] And more importantly, the ability like I'm, you know, I have two young kids, and I've been working through it and writing and publishing through it, because I've learned how to thrive in chaos.

[00:03:52] And that's something that being a journalist, being in the newsroom, you know, you're surrounded by so much upheaval, and you somehow find that calm within the chaos.

[00:04:03] And I think that's really helped me be productive even during these, you know, this early motherhood phase.

[00:04:09] So I actually thank my journalistic background for giving me a lot of skills that I don't think I would have possessed if I'd only been, you know, a fiction writer.

[00:04:17] So I think those skills came in handy.

[00:04:20] A lot of us writers tend to mind our own lives.

[00:04:23] And your first book was definitely took off from bits of your own life.

[00:04:28] And also the other one, which came out before this one.

[00:04:36] After a point, you write about your life, but then you grow out of it.

[00:04:39] At any point, do you feel that maybe I shouldn't be writing about it?

[00:04:44] Maybe I should not.

[00:04:45] Maybe I need to distance myself from my life now and not put this out.

[00:04:51] I'm so glad you asked that question because, like I said earlier, writing is therapeutic for me.

[00:04:56] So it was never about...

[00:04:59] So I'll give you an example.

[00:05:00] In 2015, I wrote an article for Femina about surviving, you know, domestic violence.

[00:05:07] And the floodgates of hell almost opened up.

[00:05:10] Women from around India, from the hinterlands, from big metropolis, they all emailed me, messaged me, reached out to me saying that they'd never been allowed to talk.

[00:05:20] And we assume a wide distance, I think society between women's what we call private issues and what comes out in the public domain.

[00:05:28] So it was never about shaming the perpetrator.

[00:05:31] I've never even taken his name in public.

[00:05:32] It was more about creating awareness that if you find yourself in certain...

[00:05:36] And, you know, tragedy hits us all in some way or the other.

[00:05:39] And it comes in different forms for each and every one of us.

[00:05:43] How do you cope with it?

[00:05:44] How do you survive?

[00:05:45] And not just survive, how do you thrive?

[00:05:47] And learn to move on.

[00:05:48] Because I know a lot of women who've faced similar situations have never been able to come out of it.

[00:05:53] The entire life has been defined by that.

[00:05:55] How do you seek the light at the end of the tunnel?

[00:05:58] So it was more of an inspirational story, more of a story of hope and redemption and finding yourself and forgiving yourself.

[00:06:06] So there were a lot of lessons in there, more for other women especially to learn from.

[00:06:13] And I hope it's...

[00:06:14] I feel like it's resonated with a lot of people and helped them.

[00:06:17] So I hope that message carries forward.

[00:06:19] Lovely.

[00:06:20] You've also...

[00:06:21] I've read your work, a lot of it.

[00:06:24] Halfway through your most recent book, I must confess, I've not completed it yet.

[00:06:28] That's a slightly experimental book, The Man Who Lost India.

[00:06:30] Very interesting one.

[00:06:31] What I find interesting is that you have gone from very emotional books to something funny, to fiction, which is very tongue-in-cheek at times.

[00:06:42] To this latest book, which is very experimental.

[00:06:44] So how do you decide what you're going to take up next?

[00:06:47] You know, I love that question again, Kiran, because I call myself an equal opportunity confuser.

[00:06:53] The publishers have no idea what genre to put me in.

[00:06:57] Right?

[00:06:58] Because I'm not writing just mythology or just romance.

[00:07:00] I hear you, babe.

[00:07:02] I'm like, what's the thing I'm going to write now?

[00:07:04] I'm going to write now.

[00:07:05] So I don't strain myself to any particular genre.

[00:07:08] For me, no, Kiran, the story should be told in the best possible way.

[00:07:14] And that is my goal.

[00:07:15] So I don't care about these categorizations, right?

[00:07:19] Because I feel like as artists especially, why should we abide by the boxes that society has created for us?

[00:07:24] The whole point of being an artist is to push the envelope, is to unlearn what we've been taught so deeply that sometimes on a subliminal level, we're not even aware of it.

[00:07:34] So let's break out of these stereotypes and boxes that if you're a woman, you can only write about, you know, household dramas.

[00:07:41] Who says women can't write war novels?

[00:07:43] And I wrote The Man Who Lost India to prove a man wrong because he said women can't write war novels.

[00:07:49] And I said, oh, here you go.

[00:07:51] So, and the entire thing is that if a story comes to you, don't start holding yourself back saying, okay, this is not going to suit my genre.

[00:08:02] Write the story to the best of your ability and leave it to its own journey then.

[00:08:06] And don't define yourselves by what publishers want or the public want.

[00:08:10] You tell the story that needs to be told, a story that comes to you the most.

[00:08:13] So for me, that's the reason I've written comedy, I've written drama, I've written thrillers, and now I've written a war novel, I've written nonfiction.

[00:08:21] So because I don't constrain myself as an artist, I'm like, the world is your canvas, paint it large.

[00:08:27] So are you a plotter or a panster?

[00:08:30] Plotter for sure.

[00:08:31] Okay.

[00:08:32] Which is very surprising.

[00:08:33] So the genesis of my story is unbridled in many ways.

[00:08:37] But its execution is very thought out.

[00:08:40] And that's just the kind of person I am in real life.

[00:08:42] I'm very meticulous, very organized.

[00:08:45] So for one and a half, my first novel, for example, I knew my beginning and end.

[00:08:51] I didn't know my middle.

[00:08:52] And halfway through writing that novel, Kiran, I completely got stuck.

[00:08:56] I didn't know where to go with the protagonist, Amara.

[00:08:59] So that's when and now what I do is I always write a synopsis, a brief synopsis of the beginning, middle and end.

[00:09:07] But here's the thing.

[00:09:08] When you start writing, your characters take on a life of their own and they surprise you.

[00:09:13] And the minute I know that the character is surprising me and the plot twist that I expected has taken on a different hue.

[00:09:19] That's when I know it's a good story.

[00:09:21] So I let myself be surprised even within that organized frame.

[00:09:25] What's your process like?

[00:09:30] Insane amount of hard work.

[00:09:32] Like people keep asking me this.

[00:09:33] How are you being so productive?

[00:09:34] And I'm like, I wish there was a secret.

[00:09:36] You know, when people ask someone how have you lost so much weight and there's a secret like liposuction or Zempic.

[00:09:41] None of that here.

[00:09:42] It's plain old hard work.

[00:09:45] You want to say something?

[00:09:50] You know, the Zempic question when it gets thrown at you and you've been slaving at the gym for so many months and you're like, hello, it's hard work.

[00:09:58] I did that to you also, didn't I? Sorry.

[00:10:02] But yeah, you're right.

[00:10:03] It's actually plain old hard work.

[00:10:04] I think we've also grown up like that being told that there are no shortcuts in life.

[00:10:09] There are no secrets.

[00:10:10] It's plain old hard work.

[00:10:11] I am working from 6 a.m. when I get up to 1030 in the night, nonstop.

[00:10:16] Every hour of mine is unforgiving that way because I'm either doing housework, doing my actual writing work, thinking of stories, thinking of my characters, thinking of my columns.

[00:10:26] Even when I'm physically looking after my children, my mind is on the character, on the story, on how to get it out there.

[00:10:34] So it's a very interesting process.

[00:10:36] And I think Kiran, you'll also find this with experience and time.

[00:10:40] For example, an article would earlier take me a week to write.

[00:10:43] Now I can write an article in a day.

[00:10:45] So I think that productivity, your productivity really increases because you know your own voice.

[00:10:51] You trust your own voice.

[00:10:52] So you become better and better at your writing process with experience and with hard work.

[00:10:58] So I think the payoff has come in now after a decade of writing.

[00:11:01] Okay.

[00:11:02] You're at your desk from 6 o'clock to 10 o'clock.

[00:11:05] But of course, in between there's stuff that needs to be done.

[00:11:08] You have to small kids.

[00:11:09] Yes.

[00:11:10] You have a home to be run.

[00:11:11] You have all that to be done.

[00:11:14] So when you are in the middle of writing your first draft, do you need that uninterrupted time to get that done?

[00:11:22] Or can you write in chaos?

[00:11:24] Because you know, you've been a journalist.

[00:11:26] I've been a journalist.

[00:11:27] We thrive on chaos.

[00:11:28] Right.

[00:11:29] The world can go to pot around us, but we'll get our stories out.

[00:11:32] But for that first draft, I feel that you need that isolation, but which we don't often get.

[00:11:38] So how do you do that?

[00:11:40] The first draft is, that's again a great question because when I'm writing my first draft, my husband can see it on my face.

[00:11:47] He claims.

[00:11:48] So he just avoids me.

[00:11:50] Pensible man.

[00:11:51] He's like a poltergeist.

[00:11:53] You're like, you know, I mean, I'm physically there, but mentally I'm completely somewhere else.

[00:11:57] So that first draft, how I thrive it, how I plow through it in the chaos is just by my mind is somewhere else.

[00:12:06] So everything else is then on autopilot or automated.

[00:12:09] And I miss a lot of things.

[00:12:10] I don't.

[00:12:11] So what I do is, for example, when I was writing my first book, I didn't watch my first few books.

[00:12:16] I didn't watch TV for five years, but I can't do that anymore.

[00:12:19] So what I do instead is wake up really early in the morning or stay up really late in the night or cut out on my social commitments.

[00:12:27] So cut out on whatever I can call out time.

[00:12:30] I give it that best shot.

[00:12:32] So the first draft is the most important, but I also get out of my own way because if a story has to be told and has to be told in a certain timeframe, then I'll find time.

[00:12:42] So I'll create that time. And I think it comes from being very organized and also being very almost like a Nazi with my time.

[00:12:49] Like I just don't waste it on things that are not important.

[00:12:53] So I have a very high priority list on what's important for me.

[00:12:56] And I work from that departure point.

[00:12:58] I'm so glad you said that.

[00:13:00] I think with the time writers, we need to be like dragons guarding our gold.

[00:13:04] Yes, absolutely.

[00:13:05] And most people don't get that.

[00:13:07] They think you're being antisocial and you're or you're being too high hoity toity.

[00:13:11] You don't want to come unmeet.

[00:13:13] But the point is time is limited and time is precious.

[00:13:16] And plus you have small kids, which takes up an ample amount of time.

[00:13:20] Now, given that you write, you're writing a fiction, your books, you're writing columns.

[00:13:25] So do you sort of schedule out your day beforehand that this is my writing time?

[00:13:30] This is the time I'm going to give to write my column.

[00:13:32] This is the time I'm going to do my television, whatever, whatever.

[00:13:36] Does it happen that way or you just sort of go with the flow?

[00:13:39] So, so earlier I used to, I used to set myself a limit of 500 words a day, which is a classic, you know, the classic writers schedule.

[00:13:46] But now there are days when I can go 5000 words in a day.

[00:13:50] There are days when I will not write at all.

[00:13:51] So I've given myself that leeway.

[00:13:54] And you know, Kiran, the one thing I've realized is that if you are going to be a sort of a writer with a family life going on, you have to the biggest thing, especially as a female writer, as a woman writer, is to be kind to yourself.

[00:14:07] That allow yourself, like, for example, I treat myself every day with something, but when I know I'm working so hard, I'll give myself one hour of me time.

[00:14:15] I'll just watch trashy TV or I have modern family on.

[00:14:18] I have my friends, I have my Seinfeld, I have my typical, you know, comfort TV, as I call it playing in the background.

[00:14:24] Or I'll give myself sweet treats, you know, that on a job well done.

[00:14:29] So I also have learned the art of rewarding myself and not in the public eye, but in the private moments, because I think that's where we need to throw ourselves into sharp relief.

[00:14:39] Because I think as writers, as productive writers, we are so hard on ourselves.

[00:14:43] So I'm teaching myself a new life skill.

[00:14:45] So I'm allowing myself that room to make mistakes.

[00:14:49] And it's okay, everything doesn't have to be perfect.

[00:14:51] And I think that's that superwoman complex that we all suffer from.

[00:14:57] We are just super women, forget that we are just super women.

[00:15:00] We all want to look like Deepika Padukone, we want to earn like Indra Nooyi, we want to be as nurturing as Nirupa Roy.

[00:15:07] It's not going to happen.

[00:15:08] We can't abide by all those things, you know, these are.

[00:15:11] So just be the best version of you, allow yourself to fall and fail, because even the moon does not have to be whole in order to shine.

[00:15:18] We're not meant to be perfect human beings in order to be productive, in order to be loved, in order to lead normal lives.

[00:15:25] And I think that's the one thing that as I'm getting older, I've stopped this notion of being a superwoman or being perfect in every aspect of my life.

[00:15:33] I just let myself fall and fail and enjoy it.

[00:15:36] Revel in the success as much as the failure.

[00:15:38] Lovely.

[00:15:39] You've written a book on how to get published.

[00:15:42] For those who are listening in and watching, what would be your five main tips that you would say they need to keep in mind if they're looking to get published?

[00:15:51] The first thing I would say is, remember that writing is not a democratic process.

[00:15:57] It's an autocratic process.

[00:15:59] Which means that when you know we're talking about the first draft right now, when you're getting that story out of the way, the first draft out of the way, first thing you must do is get out of your own way.

[00:16:09] That means do not be critical of yourself at this point.

[00:16:13] Trust in your voice, trust in your story, trust in your instinct that you are telling the story to the best of your ability.

[00:16:19] And don't be too harsh and critical of yourself during that stage.

[00:16:24] So listen to your own voice.

[00:16:26] Once that first draft is out, that's where your ego then as an artist must go away and from the second draft to the final draft, you know, the kill your darlings phase has to start.

[00:16:36] Then you start editing, editing and then you're ruthless with yourself.

[00:16:40] Then the first draft be very kind to yourself.

[00:16:43] And from that departure point, be very unkind to yourself.

[00:16:46] And for me, that's what works.

[00:16:47] The second thing I would advise is take the ego away from the artist, which is once your first draft is out there, you have to learn how to edit, edit, edit, because writing is basically rewriting.

[00:16:57] So at that point, show your draft, read it to other people, read it aloud if you must or do whatever works for you.

[00:17:04] So the editing process is very important because nowadays, as you know, you know, I've written this in how to get published also.

[00:17:11] Kiran editors are inundated with manuscripts to get, I think, a new submission in their inbox every five minutes.

[00:17:18] How will your submission stand out?

[00:17:21] How will it not end up in that rejection pile where, you know, the rejection rates, by the way, in India are 95%, which is why we see such a high rate of self publishing.

[00:17:30] If you want a traditional publisher and if you want to be published well, then make sure the third thing is to understand the publishing process.

[00:17:39] Because trust me Kiran, people like you and me, we taught this process to ourselves, right?

[00:17:43] We went through the rigmarole.

[00:17:44] We had no mentors.

[00:17:46] We had no one holding our hand.

[00:17:47] We taught the process to ourselves and we failed.

[00:17:50] We made so many mistakes.

[00:17:51] I feel like I made so many mistakes early on in my career.

[00:17:54] I think I still do.

[00:17:55] But some of that struggle, I want other aspiring writers not to have, which is why I wrote this book.

[00:18:01] So understand the submission process, a query letter.

[00:18:04] For example, I remember talking to Chikhi and Chikhi said, Meghna, people of Juggernaut, people would send her emails starting with dear Mr. Sarkar.

[00:18:12] I mean, basic mistakes.

[00:18:14] Do your research before approaching publishers.

[00:18:16] You know, they don't have the time.

[00:18:17] So focus on your query letter.

[00:18:19] Make sure your, this is my fourth piece of advice.

[00:18:22] Make sure your first sentence, your first paragraph, your first page of whatever you're submitting catches the eye of the publisher.

[00:18:29] Make it riveting.

[00:18:31] Make it, focus a lot of attention on it.

[00:18:33] So your opening has to be spectacular.

[00:18:36] And the fifth piece of advice I would say is getting published in India now is not very difficult anymore.

[00:18:43] Because, you know, the lowest common denominator with the 9000 publishers now.

[00:18:47] So, I mean, I saw this very funny thing where somebody basically uploaded a photo of their shoe and put it up on KDP, right?

[00:18:54] Yes.

[00:18:55] And it's sold.

[00:18:56] And it's sold.

[00:18:57] It's sold.

[00:18:57] And he said, I'm an author.

[00:18:58] And all he did was put up a photo of his shoe as a cover of the so-called book.

[00:19:02] It was an empty book.

[00:19:04] So it's so easy to get self-published.

[00:19:06] But the fact is, a self-published author will maybe sell 50 copies.

[00:19:09] And they're very lucky.

[00:19:10] So we have, of course, seen success stories of self-published authors like Amish, like Ashwin, like Savi Sharma.

[00:19:16] But they're far and few in between.

[00:19:18] So if you're looking to get the traditional publishing route, to get invited to literature festivals, to have a good thriving career as an author, get your fundamentals in order.

[00:19:29] So know how to sell, build a community.

[00:19:32] Please don't approach authors with, you know, that entitled.

[00:19:34] Do you get that a lot in your inbox?

[00:19:37] I get an email every single day by somebody I don't know, have never heard of, has never approached me, saying my book is coming out.

[00:19:45] Go and promote it.

[00:19:47] These are the links, please buy and put up a review on this.

[00:19:50] Yes, put up a review.

[00:19:51] On Amazon, Kindle, Goodreads.

[00:19:54] I'm sorry.

[00:19:57] Exactly.

[00:19:59] No, hi, hi, I've read your books.

[00:20:00] I'm a fan of you.

[00:20:01] None of that.

[00:20:02] This does.

[00:20:03] So, I mean, I do feel bad for them at times because nobody has given them sane advice like you've given them to, you know, be a little more courteous and say that maybe I'd like you to read my book if you had the time and I'd be happy to hear what you think of it, which is the polite way to go about it and not put up a review on Amazon.

[00:20:20] Which brings me to the other point, which is not connected with creativity per se, but the fact that now authors have also to be social marketers.

[00:20:31] Yes.

[00:20:31] And promoters and PR agents and all of that.

[00:20:34] Right.

[00:20:35] How do you deal with it?

[00:20:36] Because I've given up very honestly.

[00:20:38] But you're so good on social media.

[00:20:40] You know, remember before I met you, I was such a fangirl.

[00:20:43] Yeah.

[00:20:44] I still am, but that was back in the day when I was new and enthusiastic, but now I've sort of given up on it.

[00:20:50] But you know, Kiran, the problem is there's no choice now, right?

[00:20:53] You have to be active on social media because jo dikta hai, ho bikta hai.

[00:20:56] And let no one tell you otherwise, even now as established authors, if our last book does not sell well, the publishers will be reluctant to publish our new book or advances will lower.

[00:21:08] So we have to prove ourselves with every book in terms of not just the content, but also the sales numbers.

[00:21:14] And the fact is, Kiran, that only 2% of published books make it into bookstores to begin with, because nowadays bookstores are all about the merchandise, because they also have to say it's a business right at the end of the day.

[00:21:26] And it's so pitiful that they have to do it.

[00:21:28] But they're selling coffee, they're selling merchandise because books are not flying off the shelves like they used to.

[00:21:33] So understand that, what is it, some startling number, where only 1% of books that come out in India, managed to sell more than 10,000 copies, Kiran.

[00:21:46] And a bestseller is called a book that has sold 10,000 copies, that's it, in a population of what, 1.3, 1.4 billion people.

[00:21:54] And we are competing with books for competitive exam entrances.

[00:21:59] Yes, educational texts.

[00:22:00] Yeah, educational texts.

[00:22:01] Those are the bestsellers, actual bestsellers.

[00:22:03] Those are the bestsellers.

[00:22:04] So 90% of books sell less than 2,000 copies in their lifetime, Kiran.

[00:22:09] So just imagine, I mean, I think we belong to that category of, you know, that 4%, who managed to sell between 2,000 to 10,000 copies, which is why we're still in the industry, which is why we're still getting published.

[00:22:21] But imagine the task that we have to put up just to be able to sell even that much.

[00:22:25] You know, the, so unfortunately, if you want to make a career out of being an writer, first of all, understand nobody gets famous or rich by being an author, not a book author.

[00:22:35] Don't give up your day job, nobody.

[00:22:37] Don't give up your day job, anybody.

[00:22:38] Nobody give up your day job.

[00:22:39] Understand that with the advances and the royalties, you cannot pay your bills.

[00:22:44] You have to hustle, you have to have either a side career going on, or you have to have come into a large fortune through marriage or inheritance, whatever works for you.

[00:22:53] Or you continue your day job, but you cannot make money as a book writer.

[00:22:58] So please, I think these harsh realities are some things that people are not aware of.

[00:23:03] And I think they get very shocked when they hear this or even when they read how to get published, because there's nobody else saying these things to them.

[00:23:12] Right.

[00:23:13] I'm glad you brought that up that, you know, have a side gig.

[00:23:18] Don't give up your day job.

[00:23:19] The advances and royalties are not going to pay your grocery bills.

[00:23:23] I think Priyanka Chopra's dog would be more famous than a writer.

[00:23:27] So please be aware that you're not going to get fame out of this.

[00:23:29] Definitely not.

[00:23:30] You just might get some feel good glorification when you go for Lit Fest, but that's about it.

[00:23:36] That's where we're the rock stars.

[00:23:37] You enter and everybody knows your name.

[00:23:39] Yeah, then we come back home and you're back to the same old day.

[00:23:42] Anyway, that's another thing altogether, another discussion for another day.

[00:23:47] We spoke about you shifting into screenwriting.

[00:23:52] Right.

[00:23:52] And that's a different skill altogether.

[00:23:54] You also spoke about the fact that you are co-writing with somebody because you need that visual sense.

[00:23:59] Right.

[00:23:59] Now, how does that visual sense come about?

[00:24:01] How do you create or develop that visual sense?

[00:24:06] I think all writers are by the very nature of visual creatures.

[00:24:10] Even when I'm writing for my books, for example, I'm imagining the scene before I put it to pen.

[00:24:14] But what happens with the writing for screenplays?

[00:24:18] It's very interesting, Kiran, which is a skill that we as authors need to develop if we want to enter into screenplay writing.

[00:24:24] You have the talent.

[00:24:26] You have the discipline to finish telling this complete story from start to end.

[00:24:31] You have the ability and the talent to develop characters, develop plot lines.

[00:24:36] All that talent and skill is there.

[00:24:38] So you're already on a win.

[00:24:41] One, where I think book writers lose out are two places.

[00:24:44] One is the contracts.

[00:24:46] We don't know how to negotiate contracts.

[00:24:48] So having an agent really helps in that case.

[00:24:51] I have a lawyer husband.

[00:24:52] So that helps me.

[00:24:55] So that is an aspect I think a lot of people get intimidated.

[00:24:59] Second is the process.

[00:25:00] Because here, see in publishing, it's the editor and you and that's the gatekeeper.

[00:25:04] The editor is the gatekeeper.

[00:25:06] In films, there are 100 gatekeepers.

[00:25:09] Yes.

[00:25:09] Whom you have to keep very happy.

[00:25:11] So it's a different skill set again to be able to deal with so many people suddenly.

[00:25:16] You know, from dealing with only one editor who's read your book and then has brought it out to the world.

[00:25:21] You have 20 people giving you feedback on your work.

[00:25:24] So your ego has to completely be away from the writing.

[00:25:28] So, Rumu, again, get out of your own way.

[00:25:30] I think that really helps.

[00:25:32] And the third thing is a collaborative process.

[00:25:34] You know, as authors, we're so used to writing in isolation.

[00:25:37] We write our story, we send it to the publisher, they accept it or reject it, then we send it to another publisher.

[00:25:44] However, it works.

[00:25:45] But it's only you and, you know, the reader.

[00:25:47] It's going almost directly to the reader.

[00:25:49] Here you've got to work with at least 20-30 other people who are going to give you feedback on your writing.

[00:25:56] So you're going to have to learn to keep your ego away, to keep yourself away.

[00:26:00] And understand that in the end, the story needs to flourish.

[00:26:05] And I think Bollywood needs that.

[00:26:06] It needs beautiful stories to be told, which I think the content is a bit lacking, honestly, in my opinion.

[00:26:12] And I think if storytellers push themselves and come up with these beautiful stories and are willing to work in collaboration,

[00:26:17] we can have some beautiful films come out of India.

[00:26:21] So for me, the end goal is that I hope we get better content because we are, look at us, look at our history.

[00:26:27] We are a land of so many stories and I wish for all of them to be told in a beautiful way.

[00:26:33] Lovely.

[00:26:34] You've done something very experimental with your latest book.

[00:26:37] Yes.

[00:26:37] You've written a war novel and it is not the straightforward war novel at all.

[00:26:41] Not at all.

[00:26:42] Not at all.

[00:26:43] So what made you pick this up?

[00:26:44] I mean, it was a big risk.

[00:26:46] Big risk.

[00:26:47] It's the first dystopic war novel that has been written by a woman in India.

[00:26:50] My editor had informed me.

[00:26:52] And also the first book about India and China going to war in the future.

[00:26:55] So Kiran, this book came about because a man told me that women cannot write war novels.

[00:27:01] And I said, being the heretic that I am, I have to debunk any stereotype, right?

[00:27:05] I think that's my only goal in life that if somebody says women can't do something, I'll go out to prove that they can.

[00:27:11] Even my productivity during early motherhood has come because somebody told me that you'll be out of commission for five years after becoming a new mother.

[00:27:17] And I said, ab mein dikhati hun.

[00:27:20] So don't tell women what they can and cannot do.

[00:27:22] So the departure point was that I, of course, got once I finished writing the novel, I got consumed by this canonical fear that it's not the perfect war novel.

[00:27:33] Because see, war novels have traditionally had a very masculine voice, right?

[00:27:38] They are all about heroism and masculinity and the actual physical act of war.

[00:27:42] And here I'm exploring the psychological impact, the deciduous sort of impact of war, where religion and faith play a primary role.

[00:27:51] So it was very experimental.

[00:27:54] I knew I was taking a big risk.

[00:27:57] But again, like I said earlier, I'm done with this notion of perfection.

[00:28:01] No book is going to be perfect.

[00:28:02] No story is going to be perfect.

[00:28:04] No author is going to be perfect.

[00:28:05] Our lives are not meant to be perfect, right?

[00:28:08] We are all fundamentally flawed human beings falling and failing every day because that is the lived human experience.

[00:28:15] And we need to embrace ourselves and embrace our lives and embrace our work and all of that.

[00:28:20] So if somebody else could have written it better, great.

[00:28:23] But I did the best I could.

[00:28:24] So I made it, I keep telling people, it's like kattal biryani.

[00:28:27] Shimangul or Cyndia.

[00:28:28] You either love it or you hate it.

[00:28:30] Like Boys Don't Cry My Last Novel is like, you know, normal Rajma Chawal.

[00:28:35] Everybody who's read it has loved the book.

[00:28:38] But this one was very experimental and see, I'm here to learn and to grow.

[00:28:42] So I said, I have to take a chance on this.

[00:28:44] I have to say that women can write war novels.

[00:28:47] And whether I fail doing it or whether I thrive doing it, it doesn't matter.

[00:28:51] Like the Gita says, worry about the action or the consequences of those actions.

[00:28:55] So the point of art is Brahmananda Sahodara, which is to uplift yourself.

[00:29:01] To, you know, to come into a higher being.

[00:29:03] So for me, that's the reason I write so that I can evolve and grow in this lifetime.

[00:29:08] What's coming next?

[00:29:09] Next is a children's book, which I'm really looking forward to.

[00:29:14] Completely the opposite process from writing a very heavy war novel.

[00:29:19] It's sweet, it's light, it's fun.

[00:29:22] And I'm looking forward to it.

[00:29:23] My daughters are featured in it, so they'll be thrilled with it.

[00:29:26] How lovely.

[00:29:27] Yeah, so looking forward to that.

[00:29:29] I'm writing two thrillers right now, which I'm very excited about.

[00:29:34] I love thrillers.

[00:29:36] So I think I've got all the darkness and all the naughtiness to be able to write a thriller.

[00:29:41] So I'm having a lot of fun with it.

[00:29:43] Lovely.

[00:29:43] All the very best, Meghna, for all that you do.

[00:29:45] Thank you so much for this conversation and looking forward to reading the next ones.

[00:29:49] Thanks for having me here.

[00:29:49] Thank you so much.

[00:29:50] Thank you so much for having me here.

[00:29:51] Thanks for having me, Filah.