S3 E03 | Scaling Marico to Rs 86,000 cr global brand | Harsh Mariwala’s Winning Formula

[00:00:00] We didn't compete with many of the larger players because portfolio choice to me was very important.

[00:00:05] And we said hair oils is not something which resonates with them and see hair oils business is bigger than Shampoos

[00:00:12] and we have a great opportunity to create a big hair oil market and become market leader in there.

[00:00:17] And if you look at our portfolio of products today, I think in all brands we are market leaders.

[00:00:23] But initially we saw an opportunity of leveraging our success in innovation in coconut oil in some neighboring countries.

[00:00:34] Today at Bangladesh we have something like 80% market share in coconut oil category, it's a large category.

[00:00:39] We must be the largest Indian company in Bangladesh doing a turnover of more than 1000 crores.

[00:00:57] Ms. Mariwala, welcome to the Blume Podcast. It's an honor and pleasure to have you here today.

[00:01:02] We've had a long standing association. A lot of people on the show, listening to the show might not know this but you were one of our first backers.

[00:01:10] So very proud to have you as a backer and an investor from the early days.

[00:01:15] And that journey started in 2011 as you know and we're on our 14th year

[00:01:20] and I've always been grateful for the early belief and support that you showed.

[00:01:24] One of our largest investors in that tiny first fund that we raised of 100 crores.

[00:01:29] You know, I think from the outside Mariko has been like a daunting amazing name for people to aspire to.

[00:01:36] And we always talk about it as an example of how an Indian brand competed with global brands, right?

[00:01:46] And built a FMCG behemoth in the country.

[00:01:49] But then when we did a little bit of background work obviously we don't know the history as well as you do.

[00:01:54] And what we always realize is the entrepreneurs early days and how the germination of these ideas come about are somewhat layered in the nurturing

[00:02:04] and your nature as a child and where you grew up, right?

[00:02:09] And each person's journey is unique.

[00:02:11] So we would love to surface that a little bit today for the audience.

[00:02:14] I don't know how many people have heard it but would love to hear how did growing up in a business family in Bombay in the 70s

[00:02:21] kind of influence and shape your thinking and how early did this germ of entrepreneurship and building kick in into your life.

[00:02:29] Okay, thank you very much Karthik for inviting me first and I still remember the first investment I made.

[00:02:35] I think must have been one of the first investments I made beyond the business I had built up.

[00:02:41] So in a way it was first for me also.

[00:02:44] And I'm so happy that you've done so well over the period of last 13-14 years.

[00:02:48] So congratulations and thank you for inviting me to your talk.

[00:02:53] So I'll go back to my own younger days when I passed out of college and I wanted to study further

[00:03:00] and my father conservative at one level and I couldn't get admission into a management school.

[00:03:07] I was very clear I wanted to do management and nothing else.

[00:03:10] I didn't want to become a chartered accountant.

[00:03:11] I was not good in technology so I couldn't pass the MBA exam in say India.

[00:03:18] I wanted to go abroad but my father said no and I mean those days you are far more obedient.

[00:03:26] So in this world we are staying in today's was what we I when I spent childhood was very very different.

[00:03:35] You know there's nothing like electronic mediums and you know a lot of it is doing things together.

[00:03:42] So I was staying in a building which my grandfather had built and everybody stayed in the same building.

[00:03:50] We had a common kitchen so a lot of sharing a lot of doing things together.

[00:03:56] And I mean though every day whenever I started working I used to go two or three of us would go in the same car.

[00:04:06] So a lot of tolerance because somebody late then you have to wait for them to come back.

[00:04:10] So basically atmosphere of frugality at one level and tolerance and respect for elders.

[00:04:23] And I was very very very happy with this you know as against today where the youngster may get up and say even I couldn't say the same thing to my father.

[00:04:29] So it was very very different and when I started working we were in the heart of commodity markets in in Majid Bandar which is one of the most crowded localities in the world outside.

[00:04:41] And it was very difficult to park a car there very dirty locality and whenever as we started as my business started growing started recruiting talent and half the time talent would just run away before coming to the office.

[00:04:59] So how do you overcome that negativity or some something which is not working out and as an entrepreneur you never say no you need to try out some different approaches.

[00:05:09] So that's how we started calling them to the Willingdon Club very close to from where you are staying and luckily your members.

[00:05:17] So when that changed the whole thing you know you meet once you meet twice and then you slowly put it in that this is an office space but it's a matter of time we'll move out.

[00:05:27] So growing a very relatively small business and in terms of size we had three different divisions in Bombay all industries.

[00:05:37] We had a chemicals business we had a spice extracts business and we're edible oil business which was mainly unbranded.

[00:05:44] Most of my friends at that time coming in from business families would be spending a lot of time in Delhi because that was the license Raj era.

[00:05:52] And everybody the route to success was to get a license.

[00:05:56] Once you got a license then you made for life you know to me I didn't appeal me because I was not cut out for entertaining bureaucrats or you know making my way through to get a license or a favor.

[00:06:09] So luckily I found my calling in the edible oil business and it was mainly unbranded.

[00:06:16] And in short what I did in my initial stages of business was to convert that from unbranded to branded and I had to deal with distributors and I didn't have to go deal with even like a B2B business where you deal with some buyers of some big companies.

[00:06:33] So it was in a way suited my personality and if I had gone into a business which was not based on what I liked then I would not have succeeded.

[00:06:45] So I strongly feel that you know your passions, your strengths and your work you're doing there should be very close fit.

[00:06:54] And if it is not there then you'll not enjoy doing and if there is there then you will not have an issue of work-life balance.

[00:07:01] And many youngster go on saying work-life balance is missing but I said if you enjoy your work then everything is the same you know.

[00:07:10] So the business grew over a period of time and faced many many challenges but I think any entrepreneur that said bounce back you know I've had many setbacks.

[00:07:22] But the ability to bounce back is very important you know.

[00:07:26] What is the learning from that setback and can you apply that learning to your subsequent journey and make a virtue of it and succeed in that particular area.

[00:07:36] I think the three four brilliant anecdotes are like little lessons for entrepreneurs even in this age.

[00:07:43] I agree with you I think both the age of entrepreneurship and you know family values and general how you deal with society have undergone a sea change.

[00:07:54] We can't be teaching those lessons and hoping they'll follow especially because the pace is like picked up so much that I don't think there is a time for anyone to slow down and absorb some of this.

[00:08:06] The two three big ones I took away is we call it in our jargon founder market fit right.

[00:08:12] Can a founder build and we call them founders now we don't simply call them entrepreneurs.

[00:08:17] I think slightly different DNA because the founders tend to drive the vision.

[00:08:21] Yes from what you're telling me whatever you called yourself you fit that founder persona back in the 70s.

[00:08:27] And the market fit is very important because as you said if you went and chased something you're uncomfortable with.

[00:08:35] You can be an entrepreneur but you'd be miserable and you won't grow I feel absolutely and we try to tell a lot of founders please index on that.

[00:08:43] These index on a problem you're in love with and your persona.

[00:08:47] You can't run a B2B business if you are a B2C person correct and vice versa.

[00:08:52] The second element of that that you mentioned is you know when you have a you have these journeys I think what's what has gotten corrupted in this decade and a half is that little bit of the western cooler things to adopt which is oh you can

[00:09:11] fail fast. It's OK to lose money. Yes venture capital money is there and if you have a setback it's OK to throw up your hands.

[00:09:19] Yes. Whereas I feel we've enjoyed journeys a lot more where they've been incredible you know persistence in sustaining the journey.

[00:09:29] Yes. Now that you brought that up I'm intrigued.

[00:09:31] Yes. So if you looked at going from you know you know edible oil the way you were selling unbranded to branded and those first 20 years 70s to 90s.

[00:09:46] And also out of curiosity did Mariko get spun out. Was it a new entity.

[00:09:50] So if you walk us through a little bit of that history. Yes.

[00:09:52] And what are these challenges I know you spoke of them in generalities.

[00:09:56] Yeah. But I'd love to hear one or two anecdotes on what you mean by challenges in the 90s.

[00:10:00] So I think as I said we were in Mazi's Mandir difficult to attract talent completely family managed my father being the eldest three of his brothers and then I joined and by the time I start the business three four of my cousins joined the business.

[00:10:14] So like there are seven eight surname same surname individuals in the organization that would be very scary for a professional to join because one would not know what is the reporting relationship.

[00:10:26] What will happen between the so many family members. Yeah.

[00:10:29] So to me one of the biggest challenge was talent and that challenge still remains for any business in my opinion but I realized very very early in my own journey that talent plays the most important role in your business.

[00:10:42] And from early days I have been aspiring for better and better quality talent because I saw the results in an FMCG business without putting in any money in fixed capital.

[00:10:54] We already had those factories for edible wise all we had to do was to small to add very small packing machines and most of them were manual and we could create a big big asset in terms of turnover profitability just because we had good talent in terms of marketing distribution.

[00:11:09] But my biggest challenge those days was attracting talent. So in the initial stages when I as a commerce graduate I don't know what marketing is I don't know what distribution is.

[00:11:22] How do I one at one stage I am not able to attract talent at the same time I need some inputs. Yeah.

[00:11:33] I think that OK can I work with some individuals as consultants who are very good in these functional areas. So what we're going to do is a HR person was working with the MNC and he would spend time with me in the evening all the HR issues starting

[00:11:48] from how to have an appointment later to all the other systems. Similarly in marketing we established or we identified a consultant and a professor from IMM

[00:11:59] the bad very good marketing and I met him through some networks and he said but I don't have any time if you want to consult with me you'll have to come in the evening flight and I'll spend the whole night with you

[00:12:12] and you can go back in the morning multiple times. I've gone in the evening flight spent virtually the whole night and came back in the morning. So that's the adjustment that's the sacrifice you need to make to learn.

[00:12:23] Then smaller towns when we started distributing I was doing everything on my own. So started appointing distributors in smaller towns I have stated distributed houses because they notice those days in small towns.

[00:12:35] So you have to go on making the adjustments and to me that was very important learning similarly in when we upon an ad agency. The first thing I would tell ad agency is OK we are appointing you but you have to make me learn advertising

[00:12:48] so spend one day with the ad agency in terms of how advertising is created. So very much bottom up because of my lack of qualification to some extent because I was not qualified and I started recruiting talent which was more

[00:13:01] qualified than me whether it's MBAs or chartered accounts. I had to make it up much more by reading by attending short term training programs by interacting with thought leaders and to me that has played a very important role

[00:13:13] because at one level it will bug me that I am just a commerce graduate. But I was very clear that I had to attract better quality talent because my role models were companies like FMC giant and

[00:13:24] Sleevers or Procter and Gamble and all they had was good talent. So I think that's how I learned a lot from my own talent and every time there has been opportunity to to replace.

[00:13:40] I have tried to look at a better quality talent you know and if you have talent which is better than you then automatically you empower them. And most entrepreneurs I find that they are reluctant to let go

[00:13:52] when you are small you are doing things which I was doing but when you become larger you're getting things done. It's a big big difference. You need to recruit good talent you need to manage processes

[00:14:04] you need to have team building inter functional coordination and things like that. So if you have very good quality talent then the talent itself will take a lot of empowering from you

[00:14:16] and it will show results. So the talent played a very important role. The other thing which played a very important role once we grew the business because of distribution but we started stagnating

[00:14:28] and I have this burning desire within me that okay I have to grow more fast. To me growth is very important because growth is like oxygen for anybody.

[00:14:36] It basically satisfies not just shareholders but all the stakeholders including employees including associates including whoever it is because if it's good if growing the organization will have

[00:14:47] a future you get more opportunity to grow more salaries what not. So growth was very important and we started stagnating. So then we said that can be innovative

[00:14:56] and if I look back at my own journey whenever we had innovations succeed and many times they will fail I can tell you. Whenever they have succeeded it has had a discontinuous impact in terms of market share

[00:15:10] and growth. So my belief in innovation just went on getting reinforced that to succeed and that is increased now in today's world where there is a lot more competition

[00:15:21] and you need to create a very strong right to win but innovation is something which I am very passionate about or pioneering do something which is first time. But innovation has to be in a perpetual way.

[00:15:34] You can't just say I have innovated once and stay put because it's a matter of time your other competitors will copy you so you have to be two steps ahead of your competition.

[00:15:42] Great lessons and I think one thing that a lot of entrepreneurs have these log stories in the early days when does when did you notice that you didn't have to hustle as much and is that

[00:15:55] part of that evolution of saying I don't need to do everything I don't need to hustle I can go and hire good people and how long did that take in the journey.

[00:16:03] I didn't take too much longer time because you know I my business to hustling so called hustling was more to learn for myself. That's I have never been a control free and as soon as we started recruiting talent we saw an opportunity

[00:16:17] recruit talent and let go if the talent quality initially of course when new talent comes in you have a little bit closer interaction but once you have that confidence that the talent is good better than you

[00:16:27] then let them manage on their own because then you can do newer things.

[00:16:31] Interesting that a founders will still do what you did in the time the back so they will figure out how to hack a plane ride with me.

[00:16:39] Oh, it becomes a 56 are absolutely now it's because of traffic you get car rides on both sides.

[00:16:45] Correct.

[00:16:46] So we still go both our own ways but they get 56 hours with me.

[00:16:50] I think it's an age old tactic which is still being used.

[00:16:54] Shifting gears a little. I'm now understanding from what you've just told us that this learning gene and you actually prompted you to think or bring management concepts build vision as early as the 90s.

[00:17:08] These are all like esoteric management concepts back then maybe you know global companies were pioneering it in India because they were borrowing it from their mother ships but that there was one of my questions but I think you've already answered that

[00:17:21] but now when you look at your competition back then which is HUL PNG and all of these other folks like what do you think the what made you withstand or differentiate that kind of money power on slot talent etc.

[00:17:39] That they could they went to the best B schools and got like the best marketing guys on day one.

[00:17:43] And I remember that was continuing at least till the late 90s when I was in that stream.

[00:17:49] So what what made Mariko win in that tough phase in the employment market or in the combination of combination of employment is like how do you compete with that kind of money power slash brand power and what transformed Mariko into winning the hearts of all the stakeholders.

[00:18:09] So never seen a big winner somewhere that changes this right for you.

[00:18:13] So I would say that though we weren't similar space of FMCG we didn't compete with many of the larger players because portfolio choice to me was very important.

[00:18:23] So we selected portfolios where we had a very strong right to win where we can become a market leader to me market leadership was again something which was always there that I want to be market leader in whatever I do.

[00:18:36] So basically we went into portfolios where either MNCs were not present or if they were present they were not paying too much attention to that category because it was not that large enough category.

[00:18:48] So we were in hair care and we said hair oils is not something which resonates with the MNC's hair oils business is bigger than Shampoos and we have a great opportunity to create a big hair oil market become market leader in that.

[00:19:03] So we went aggressive in spaces like that which we identified where they were not there.

[00:19:10] And if you look at our portfolio of products today we have some like 20 brands I think in all brands we are market leaders in their own segments for example in Shampoos we are not present because we never thought we will be a serious player in Shampoos where each large player is not only one brand but two or three brands like Leavers or Proctor Laury awesome.

[00:19:32] And with their global R&D budget and I said we cannot succeed in that marketplace so let's identify markets where we can win.

[00:19:41] And that's how hair oils came in and you know we've been able to build a very large business and profitable business in those categories and we are market leaders in all the brands in Shampoos we acquired a very small segment of anti-life Shampoo which is very small compared to the main Shampoos.

[00:19:59] But there we have 70% market share because for them it doesn't make sense to be an anti-life shampoo being a very small category.

[00:20:08] Similarly in hair care we said that beyond hair oils where can we go so we said can we go and pre and post wash hair care.

[00:20:16] So again hair oils then hair serums hair gels hair creams mns is up present but they are not paying that much attention because this is not a large category like they have one extension but it's just neglected.

[00:20:29] So we have basically I think identification of portfolio combined with innovation branding distribution has led to this Mariko in terms of owning so many brands and then we acquired also many brands in India as well as outside India.

[00:20:43] In just that success drove talent to come over and work or is it the brand?

[00:20:47] No it's a good talent will make you succeed.

[00:20:52] I think talent would come first in my opinion but that belief has to be there that good talent will pay off.

[00:20:57] What would be your sales line for talent? I mean talent as you rightly said super important but usually buys in I think at least for the first building blocks of the company primarily on the vision of the founder and I don't know if you believe the same and is that absolutely.

[00:21:14] I think it's very important and the founder has to basically the founder has to set the right example in terms of the leadership style you have to go on learning if I'm recruiting MBA than I better know what MBA concepts are and I should be able to talk to them.

[00:21:28] So self-learning was very important to me and good quality talent but combine that talent with culture because it's easy to attract talent it may not be as easy but retaining talent is also equally important.

[00:21:40] And putting them in an environment where they flourish, where they enjoy working means you have to attend to your values culture where they enjoy working.

[00:21:49] And I used to hear from a lot of talent whom we had recruited this company has a lot of politicking this company or to use certain routes you have to play to some people to rise and it was just upsetting me no end so I said I don't want this in Marigold.

[00:22:04] So from day one influence will not work very open organization based on meritocracy trust and these kind of backbiting and all was something which I was learning from mistakes other people make.

[00:22:18] Yes, so we've been able to do that.

[00:22:20] There are three or four anecdotes we picked up about like why I think Marigold is different and there was foresight very early on.

[00:22:29] So I'm going to maybe get a quick answer from you on each one of these like your Nihar acquisition in 2006.

[00:22:38] Now you already spoke of other acquisitions.

[00:22:40] So it looks like you were always thinking about gaps either in your portfolio or things which are not important to MNC's as a way to keep leadership and win those markets.

[00:22:53] Is that a fair way to say why you got so acquisitive much earlier than most others?

[00:22:58] So I think acquisition is a means to an end. It's not an end by itself.

[00:23:02] That's correct.

[00:23:03] So why do you want to acquire, for different reasons we acquired different type of business.

[00:23:10] So in Nihar which we acquired it was more consolidation play. We were relatively weak in East India and we were stronger in other parts of India.

[00:23:20] So this fit in beautifully in terms of improving our market share and giving us a consolidated market share of 60% plus in the Cochrane Royal category.

[00:23:30] In case of Medica it helped us. We knew that it was too small. It was owned by Procter & Gamble.

[00:23:35] It was up for sale and we just bid for it. I think I must have spent, we must have spent 8 or 10 crores at that time.

[00:23:42] Today if I had to sell that brand I think it can fetch us at least 500 to 1000 crores.

[00:23:47] So Nihar also acquisition was made at 200 crores. I can easily sell for more than 5000 crores.

[00:23:52] But why do you want to acquire is more important.

[00:23:54] So in this case, in case of Medica we wanted to enter a category where we clearly thought that we'll get that market share, be able to grow the market.

[00:24:03] In some other countries where we didn't see an organic opportunity for extending our current range of products.

[00:24:11] We said can we enter those countries by acquisitions.

[00:24:15] But in certain areas where we are, so it has to be in hair care, skin care and it should give us a market leadership.

[00:24:23] So in Egypt we acquired two brands in post-wash hair care which is hair creams and hair gels.

[00:24:29] In South Africa we acquired, now over a period of time we acquired two or three companies in basically ethnic hair care for South Africans.

[00:24:39] And in Vietnam we acquired a male grooming company where they are in male shampoos and the market is segmented to male female shampoos which is again market leadership.

[00:24:50] So these acquisitions helped us gain an entry on the back of that entry we have been able to expand our range of products and be present in those countries.

[00:24:58] I'll come back to that because of course as you know the theme of the podcast this season is winning beyond boundaries.

[00:25:06] And clearly you've used acquisition as a strategy but I would definitely double click on that and figure out why you thought that was important.

[00:25:12] We'll come back to that. The other thing which piqued our interest was you went public very early.

[00:25:18] And of course back in the day there was no venture capital, private equity.

[00:25:21] So if you wanted equity capital everyone chose to go public and also people didn't know how to build businesses making losses.

[00:25:29] So I think the ingredients were there. You were profitable probably but why and I'm just trying to understand also translate this mindset to entrepreneurs who seem in the current environment.

[00:25:40] A little nervous or scared to go early. So I want to shed that sphere and maybe you can guide our listeners today.

[00:25:50] What does it take to be a founder or a part of a public company as a key stakeholder?

[00:25:57] And how did that change the company in positive ways? Was it shaky for the first 10 years? 96 was a very different environment.

[00:26:05] So I'll give you a background of why we went public first because under circumstances I was forced to go public.

[00:26:12] There was a split in the family in terms of financials and as I mentioned earlier my father, three brothers, I bought over two of my uncles in their terms.

[00:26:24] So 250% of the business I bought over and Mariko was the largest part of the family total business.

[00:26:31] So as a part of that deal I had entered into an agreement and put my shares in his crew and the final step was valuation of Mariko.

[00:26:40] Now the valuation was Mariko is much higher than what I thought it would be and I had to pay the money.

[00:26:46] If I didn't pay that money, I would have lost control of the company because the shares are under his crew.

[00:26:53] So in a way I had got one or two years time to pay the money and I tried to raise at that time Goldman Sachs had started coming in.

[00:27:01] We had couple of negotiations. It didn't work out.

[00:27:04] Very early days of primary?

[00:27:04] Yes absolutely very very early days.

[00:27:07] The only option open to us was to go public and the markets were not in good shape but finally at some stage we said let's go because there is no other option otherwise we will lose the company.

[00:27:18] So in frustration we just entered the market and luckily our issue was over subscribed.

[00:27:23] We went public at a very low multiple because we were still pursued as a branded commodities company.

[00:27:30] It was not perceived to be a full blooded FMCG.

[00:27:36] So we went public at a multiple of I think 13 or 14, price to earning multiple.

[00:27:41] Today it's maybe at 50 plus I don't know what it is.

[00:27:45] I mean we are at a far discount compared to the bigger players.

[00:27:49] But it is a matter of time we built it up over a period of time by taking many steps and improving shall I say perceptions to some extent

[00:27:57] product portfolio to some extent to be perceived as a properly full blooded FMCG company.

[00:28:06] But going public to me I though I went under circumstances which made me go.

[00:28:12] It is a double edged sword you know some people don't like it.

[00:28:15] I think it has been positive for America from various angles.

[00:28:18] First of all being public means that you are more visible.

[00:28:21] So to some extent image improves if you have good results and good products that will help you in terms of attracting talent.

[00:28:30] So talent attraction the role the board can play in adding value.

[00:28:34] I think these are all positives.

[00:28:36] Of course the negatives could be how do you manage short term and long term and we didn't have to manage earlier but now quarterly versus long term.

[00:28:43] But we've been able to manage it so well that I personally think it has been more positive.

[00:28:47] Of course the more you have to be far better in governance which to me is again a positive.

[00:28:53] So governance is always good for us.

[00:28:55] Respect you of whether you're private or public but I think overall governance levels went up substantially more because then you are subject to questioning by your outside industry.

[00:29:05] Whether it's really party in earlier days.

[00:29:07] An analyst can ask you tough questions.

[00:29:09] Correct.

[00:29:09] So I think that has been positive and we've been able to establish a very good image of the organization amongst all the investors.

[00:29:15] The way I see it is on a quarterly basis.

[00:29:18] Numbers is one thing and you are under that pressure but the ability to engage with stakeholders as wide as the public market allows you is impossible in the private markets.

[00:29:28] So you can't build that discipline because they're all known entities.

[00:29:32] And the whole organization gets used to working in a quarterly as well as long term.

[00:29:36] I think I'm a huge fan and especially in the Indian context I believe we're not like a aggressive M&A market or culturally we're not attuned to simply sticking a company.

[00:29:46] And then it is even flexibility over time.

[00:29:49] We made some acquisition.

[00:29:50] We didn't have money so we did some QIPs and today's money and if we did not public would not have been able to do QIP at that time.

[00:29:56] Understood.

[00:29:56] And there's another one other interesting anecdote we found about you took an edible oil category which was going through I guess its own transition.

[00:30:06] The transition of how oil is seen as fattening or unhealthy etc.

[00:30:11] And did a hundred and eighty and converted Sephora to almost a healthy brand.

[00:30:16] Was that your personal insight, organizational insight and how long or how challenging was that transformation to take that brand and convert it to like health.

[00:30:26] It's almost like Shell or Exxon becoming green companies.

[00:30:29] So you know edible oil is a very very competitive sector and the differentiation between the different brands in terms of product quality is very low.

[00:30:37] You need to have some differentiator if you want to have higher margins.

[00:30:41] So we were very clear that we wanted to have in a debil oil and that time safflower oil was connected with lowering cholesterol.

[00:30:50] So we started off safflower as a not a healthy brand but good for heart and good for cholesterol reduction.

[00:30:59] Over a period of time the brand is transition from cholesterol reduction to good for heart to anything connected to heart to now more healthy.

[00:31:07] So it has it has changed over a period of time it is more turned towards healthy.

[00:31:12] But if it is not healthy then we also had a brand Svikar which was refined sunflower oil.

[00:31:17] There is no differentiation and the gross margins in that kind of business are like 5-10% so we said that this is lowering our margin profile.

[00:31:24] So we should not be in this market.

[00:31:26] So we sold that brand off but safflower gives us higher much higher margins with highest margin edible oil in the country maybe in the world because of the health positioning.

[00:31:37] Lovely.

[00:31:37] And now just maybe tips or maybe a precursor to what should the current age of people who are building brands.

[00:31:49] So D2C is suddenly the new hot thing.

[00:31:53] I think it's the definition of it is a little obscure because there are enough companies which call themselves D2C but 90% of its distribution is like yours only through market places which might be online and offline.

[00:32:07] But now seeing the trend one what's your sort of 10,000 foot view on this proliferation of brands.

[00:32:15] Do we think it's the right thing for India or we're jumping the gun here?

[00:32:19] Is there enough consumption power?

[00:32:21] So I would love to hear your macro take on it and be you've started for the first time beginning to acquire some of these.

[00:32:28] So clearly you believe in some of the propositions.

[00:32:31] So what's prompting that and is it a set of audiences you're not able to reach or distribution you're not able to reach.

[00:32:37] And the corollary I know it's a complex question sir but the corollary is should D2C brand founders now build fearlessly knowing that there are five or ten marikos who can give value to whatever I built which is not present I would say even five, seven years ago.

[00:32:54] So a very good question I let me give you a little background until D2C brands surfaced in India and all over the world maybe about eight ten years back or whatever time frame.

[00:33:05] We were perceived to be the most defensive sector in terms of industry that very difficult to for a new enter to enter because of huge entry barriers and distribution especially in a country like India where there are so many outlets to reach.

[00:33:20] We have some of the products go on to three million file a million outlets.

[00:33:23] Any new brand coming in unless they have distribution there will not be any off takes so you need distribution combined with brand awareness advertising most advertising through mass mediums like television press you need a minimum budget of at least 25 crores to launch a brand on top of that you need distribution.

[00:33:42] It's both are interconnected if you if there is distribution and there is no demand generation stock will come back if they demand generation and no stocks in the market it's wasted so these entry barriers prevented new entrance to come into FMCG.

[00:34:02] And all of a sudden the digital opportunity came up where you don't require big budgets you can do digital marketing you don't need to go into so many shops you can through sell through e-commerce sites.

[00:34:16] So there were some early entrants which did very well and because of that many many others joined in which is okay there will be some shake out definitely.

[00:34:27] And on top of that so many investors wanting to back so it was a perfect storm.

[00:34:33] Yeah it's very hot.

[00:34:34] Yes but I think over a period of time things have changed in terms of expectations in terms of returns paybacks and you know.

[00:34:44] So in a way it's a good development for the overall consumer because all of a sudden the consumer has many many more choices.

[00:34:52] Now to an FMCG player D2C could be perceived as a threat because some of the D2C players may take away some share from you or it could be perceived as an opportunity if you decide to enter D2C.

[00:35:07] We in Mariko we said that we have to look at it from thread of course if it's like to hit us but more importantly we have to look at it from an opportunistic point of view.

[00:35:17] It's completely different the way these brands are managed versus the FMCG way of managing is poles apart.

[00:35:25] So we said that if you want to be in D2C we need to have a different type of people very young very digital savvy and away from our FMCG teams because we don't want FMCG mindset to influence the D2C mindset.

[00:35:42] So we had a positive but in terms of big budgets and all that.

[00:35:47] So you have to work with small budget agility levels are very very high so we had a young team and then we said that can we look at acquisitions as a way to grow and through acquisition we also learn.

[00:35:59] So we acquired over a period of time four brands plus we launched two of our brands and I think it has been a phenomenal experience managed separately different teams but once in a few months they meet together sharing all the same.

[00:36:12] So one of the best practices how do you learn from each other and once a certain brand reaches certain critical mass on the through D2C routes can we then use our traditional distribution network to sell those products because to a D2C player which does not have

[00:36:29] distribution network they'll find it very expensive to enter and again it's very different ballgame to do offline distribution.

[00:36:36] So in a way it is fit in beautifully for us because then we can exploit our current distribution and learn from each other.

[00:36:45] And last year analyzed turnover I think in March was about 450 crores we see growing and we will have far much faster turnaround than most other D2C brands because we have that profitability kind of at the back of our mind and we don't have any funder who was saying grow grow grow

[00:37:03] but there is strong expectation at some stage the EBITDA margins of D2C brands have to be closer to your FMC.

[00:37:11] No awesome I think you hit upon a lot of very good lessons for the D2C founders so thanks for sharing all of that.

[00:37:19] I'm now going to like sort of also of course we love you as a founder as an Indian story always appreciative support but one of the key reasons we said you're an apt guest for this season was you're also an Indian brand that has the ambition now to go and win global markets.

[00:37:40] Now maybe we will find your products outside of the Indian stores in the US someday but today you've gone and seen that the needs are very similar in near Asian markets and we were pleasantly surprised to be honest when it surfaced that why aren't we talking to Marico.

[00:37:57] I said what are the numbers somebody told me over 25% of the revenue comes from overseas.

[00:38:03] I said I had no idea.

[00:38:05] I know the family for 14 years but and I think and that's what we want to showcase.

[00:38:10] I think historically we have said manufacturing Karo export Karo.

[00:38:15] You do IT services great story.

[00:38:20] Nobody thought Indian consumer brands have the courage and ability.

[00:38:26] We've done it with telecom.

[00:38:27] I'm saying there are a few more industries but physical products becoming global brands not very common.

[00:38:35] Not commonly heard and I think we're on the cusp of an era where we're going to see more of this and suddenly we realize you've done this 20 years ago.

[00:38:43] So what prompted you to have the courage back then when India was such a daunting market in itself.

[00:38:50] So I mean it started off by the hearing from Middle East that you know parachute things smuggled those days.

[00:38:56] Control exports were not allowed and in came the liberalization of 90s and then we were able to convince the government to allow us to export.

[00:39:06] Initially you would get a license like for that much again go over a period of time it got liberalized and no license was required but initially we saw an opportunity of leveraging our success in the

[00:39:20] innovation in coconut oil in some neighboring countries one of them being Bangladesh.

[00:39:26] So a lot of innovations we made and which succeeded in India in the area of packaging.

[00:39:31] We saw great opportunity to tap those innovations in Bangladesh.

[00:39:36] We went there zero market share 100 percent the market dominated by local brands and we rolled all the innovations together.

[00:39:46] Today Bangladesh we have something like 80 percent market share in coconut oil category is a large category.

[00:39:51] We must be the largest Indian company in Bangladesh doing a turnover of more than 1000 crores.

[00:39:57] So that's how organically we started expanding to some countries Middle East Bangladesh some other that explains the birth of the structure.

[00:40:05] But then you know when you're an entrepreneur that that growth momentum comes in you have to grow.

[00:40:11] And sometimes it is just not for the sake of growth and profitability and increase in sales.

[00:40:16] But we also saw that you know MNCs were able to retain talent.

[00:40:19] We are transferring people from one country to another country you know that aspirational posting better.

[00:40:27] So we said can we use that also can you grow so that we can post people to other countries they'll get experience.

[00:40:33] We will also get chance to evaluate individuals in a profit center role in different countries.

[00:40:39] So currently we made many acquisitions as I said in Middle East Middle East we didn't make it.

[00:40:44] South Africa Vietnam so we have our big geographies are these four where we have our own factories or we get manufactured locally.

[00:40:52] Others we do it through India or through Egypt or wherever we have a factory.

[00:40:56] And I think now it's growing to other parts of Africa the parts of the world.

[00:41:00] So you're right about twenty six twenty seven percent of our turnover comes from from international market.

[00:41:05] And it has been a very good experience of getting some trends coming in from those countries to India.

[00:41:10] We really do wanting to travel posting people testing out people apart from running a profitable business in the international markets.

[00:41:21] I think you've covered a whole bunch of things in the narrative so I won't repeat the questions but I just want to summarize them for the audience.

[00:41:29] One I think it explains how there's a hunger for growth.

[00:41:34] Maybe look at overseas markets second very interesting expansion strategies or acquisition strategies in different markets.

[00:41:41] Some will pull some were your ability to go build adjacencies and acquire them.

[00:41:46] Three I was this question was on my mind around how do you manage the complexity of this many markets.

[00:41:52] But you've dropped enough hints.

[00:41:54] I might ask a little bit around that because that's the most daunting part.

[00:41:59] But you seem to have addressed it by giving people almost making it a training ground.

[00:42:05] And as you were speaking it felt like you can very cleverly expand India from twenty five thirty states to psychologically perhaps making it like United States and saying it's actually maybe 50 60 states 50 60 markets.

[00:42:19] So the same challenge of sending someone to Tamil Nadu versus Bangladesh in some sense.

[00:42:24] And it felt like that's how we thought about I just add a little bit.

[00:42:27] Yes please.

[00:42:28] I international markets are very different from Indian markets in the past.

[00:42:34] My initial stages I used to ask the local country out of sales marketing to handle opportunities in some other neighboring countries.

[00:42:41] And I realized that every time India such a large market and they would just not get the right time to visit those markets which at that time were small.

[00:42:51] There was some potential but always neglected.

[00:42:53] And I said there are enough escape buttons for the Indian team not to pursue international opportunities.

[00:42:59] So out of frustration we said that Indian team will not handle international business.

[00:43:04] I will recruit a vice president international at the same level.

[00:43:09] Very senior position person.

[00:43:11] The business life scale is very small but you have to build it.

[00:43:15] And I think that removing escape buttons and having good talent without a base but all the time to look at opportunities.

[00:43:24] I think it helped us build a much stronger base.

[00:43:29] We started visiting markets identifying which are the markets we want to be because international is very big unit to be prioritizing your markets.

[00:43:36] So that person went and came back.

[00:43:38] Okay these are the markets we want to be spread the word around in the local community about local banking that you want to acquire brands.

[00:43:45] And that's how many of the acquisitions happened because of so called proactive approach to acquisition rather than something coming to you.

[00:43:51] So we planted seeds among bankers, visited this family, tried to see whether there is a deal happening or not.

[00:43:58] So this removing escape button is very critical for key organizational initiatives where there is potential.

[00:44:05] And many a time we try to optimize saying that okay let the same person do that but that doesn't work out because it's a completely different ball game to manage international and Indian business.

[00:44:14] That's an important tip.

[00:44:16] I've seen whatever little success we've begun to see.

[00:44:19] Yes.

[00:44:19] One of our partners who wants to give you their health ring, ultra human.

[00:44:24] They have this ambition right now because the product is global in nature competing with a global product.

[00:44:29] Today only 15% comes from India and the person running global business is very different from focusing on India.

[00:44:37] So it's not like we have hundreds of these businesses in the startup world but we would love to see that happen.

[00:44:43] We would want Indian brands to be seen everywhere.

[00:44:45] Yes.

[00:44:46] And lot of good lessons from what you just told us.

[00:44:51] And I think it also explains how you need to balance out.

[00:44:55] It feels like you almost created a set of entrepreneurs in the truest sense who could come and take the challenge of building businesses in multiple markets.

[00:45:03] Which usually you don't expect a large company to do.

[00:45:07] There's a lot more command and control from the center.

[00:45:10] And maybe a different founder could...

[00:45:12] Something I have not done it from...

[00:45:12] Yeah, it looks like I took a founder like you to think in a very different way to make that happen.

[00:45:19] Would you say there are other regretted or missed opportunities in international or could...

[00:45:25] And where do you just to take a punt at it for 10-15 years from now where do you see international growth?

[00:45:32] International growth today about 26 or 27% it will grow.

[00:45:36] I can't predict share but I think international growth because we will try and tap newer geographies.

[00:45:43] We went into by design, we went into developing markets and not develop market.

[00:45:46] Because that's where we can leverage our distribution network which is one of the key ingredients for success.

[00:45:51] So we didn't go to Europe, USA at some stage out of frustration when things were not growing.

[00:45:57] I went and acquired a company in US based on principles of Ayurveda.

[00:46:01] And I'm talking of maybe 20 years back or 25 years back but it was in B2B business.

[00:46:07] So they were making Ayurvedic products for the spy industry.

[00:46:11] It's completely different business model very far away and then it was not getting scaled up and we sold that company.

[00:46:19] But after that learning came that okay let's go into more aggressive into acquisition in some other markets where we are not present.

[00:46:26] So that's how Egypt, South Africa, Vietnam acquisitions happened.

[00:46:32] And is this something you've managed to ingrain and I know clearly the kind of entrepreneur you are from just the stories that you've told us.

[00:46:41] But even now after being a 10,000 crore company we see you on social media in stores engaging with customers.

[00:46:50] This is hunger for learning. How do you transmit that into an organizational culture?

[00:46:55] Or is it just by seeing you people are inspired and they learn?

[00:46:59] Or has it seeped down to everybody?

[00:47:01] No I think it has to be the top management responsibility to have this quest for learning by traveling, by asking the right questions, by reading, by interacting with thought leaders.

[00:47:11] By exposing to the whole organization in terms of whether it's seminars or asking them to go abroad.

[00:47:17] And maybe four or five years back me and my son went to USA just to look at what is happening in terms of international trends.

[00:47:25] And that time the trends were what we have seen it now coming to India, natural, vegan, all those trends we could see that five, six years back.

[00:47:33] But you have to have an open mind and you have to have that burning desire to learn and succeed.

[00:47:40] It can get translated down the line.

[00:47:43] There could always be more but if you put in the right kind of processes, if you have the right culture, if you expose people to more and more, if you ask the right questions,

[00:47:52] then I think you will find many other individuals practicing this.

[00:47:58] And I know the story from you before, I think I've asked you and you've given me the detailed answer but again for the guests I want, the audiences which are young entrepreneurs.

[00:48:12] There's a little bit like sense this fear of building very long term.

[00:48:16] So what happens after 10 years? What happens after 20? If I go public, am I married to this forever? When will I enjoy life?

[00:48:24] So some of it you've answered that you have to choose your cause.

[00:48:27] But you also sort of were open enough that you transitioned out of the CEO role very early.

[00:48:35] Now for the first time we're beginning to sense that it's going to happen in the first of these startups.

[00:48:40] And any frameworks for thinking through what's the right time to hand over the bait and yet be incredibly valuable for the company?

[00:48:51] So I stepped down when I was 63 years old.

[00:48:54] I had not thought of stepping down but I think internally there were some aspirants for this post and India being very hierarchical in terms of society.

[00:49:06] It is expected that your children will step into your shoes.

[00:49:11] So at that time I went to the board and the board felt that I was in this chair from the time I started, virtually 30-40 years.

[00:49:19] And it's high time I gave some chance to somebody else.

[00:49:24] And I've always followed this thumb rule that whenever there is a conflict between the organization's interest and any stakeholder's interest,

[00:49:31] whether it's a key employee or whether it's promoters, the organization's interest comes first.

[00:49:38] So in this case based on the board advice and all the organization's interest was we need to change leadership.

[00:49:46] So two things. One is okay I have to step down another is my son is not stepping into my shoes which is unheard of at least in most Indian families.

[00:49:55] But I again use that thumb rule. It is good for the organization.

[00:49:59] Ultimately the promoters, everybody will benefit from that.

[00:50:03] So I think that's one rule whenever there is a decision or conflict coming in that you have to see what is good for the organization comes first and not your personal interest.

[00:50:13] And number two when the transition happens in this case transition happened to an individual who was working with us for almost 10 years.

[00:50:21] So there was a very good understanding in terms of what we work stands weaknesses but there is a tendency from the founder to interfere in day-to-day affairs.

[00:50:33] And that the board said that please don't let that impact the new incumbent because if you start interfering that will demotivate that person.

[00:50:40] That person should be given free hand.

[00:50:42] So at that time we wrote down I wrote down myself he wrote down what will I do what I won't do what he will do what decisions will come to me for approval very, very clearly laid down including when will we have review meetings monthly review meeting but I will not have any investor meetings.

[00:51:00] I will I will not be involved in any decision is selecting say ad agency or I don't even know who's a rad agency for you know.

[00:51:09] So I'm saying that hands off mind on the mind on comes in through review meetings through a lot of information which comes to me my whole object is to add value and of course things are not going well I need to correct things.

[00:51:22] I spend time in terms of recruitment of people who reporting to him but I've written a book which I think if some entrepreneurs are interested it's mainly meant for entrepreneurs I can definitely say that it'll add value.

[00:51:35] And there's a chapter on this transition and you know this role clarity and I think there has to be a lot of there is a lot of learning because I've heard from some other family managed companies where the founder have recruited but they are still taking all the control and that doesn't work out.

[00:51:50] No family or otherwise I think the cultural elements of the same yes you can't have a founder from the past controlling it and I know you're hiring.

[00:51:58] I mean I will of course recommend the book and we will show it you know the book as yeah as a part of the podcast but hopefully even potentially get your sign copies and give it to a few of our founders.

[00:52:11] But when you look at it is said it's all about culture and hiring and you spoke about you know you're you've been quoted as saying you look for internal drive for success which is clear very on the line with Marikos culture.

[00:52:24] Yes.

[00:52:24] Ability to identify and resolve key issues.

[00:52:26] Yes.

[00:52:27] You've spoken about a lot today.

[00:52:28] Yes.

[00:52:29] What kind of questions do you ask to get a sense that to even gauge these I don't need to understand how you gauge these but what are the good interviewing while interviewing.

[00:52:38] Yeah while interviewing how do you study one is to look at what is the ambition.

[00:52:42] Okay.

[00:52:42] What is your leadership style.

[00:52:43] We can't have dictators in our organization nor can we have autocrats.

[00:52:47] We have to have very participative leaders so we give them some tests also which they will figure out what the leadership style.

[00:52:52] What is that burning desire to succeed.

[00:52:55] What is the ambition.

[00:52:56] What are the failures.

[00:52:56] What is your risk taking.

[00:52:58] What are the learnings out of failures in your own career so but in spite of doing all that there could be some mistakes you know because interviewing is not a perfect way to judge an individual.

[00:53:08] So you do multiple interviews you do proper reference checking reference checking is very very important and then make a choice.

[00:53:16] Awesome sir.

[00:53:16] Now before we wrap up today I wanted to touch upon you know your passion for entrepreneurship partly in the book.

[00:53:24] Yes.

[00:53:24] There are two big initiatives I've noticed come out of Mariko last 10 15 years.

[00:53:29] One is ascent.

[00:53:30] Yes.

[00:53:31] Right.

[00:53:31] Not for profit to promote entrepreneurship and I've been to one or two of them.

[00:53:37] I know you kindly graciously invite us every year.

[00:53:39] Yes.

[00:53:39] You have phenomenal speakers.

[00:53:41] Yes.

[00:53:42] Where you know what do you want is an outcome for that.

[00:53:45] If there was a mission and vision for that what would you like to see out of ascent.

[00:53:50] So I personally think that entrepreneurs will drive India's growth story.

[00:53:54] No amount of government will play a role ultimately it will be the entrepreneurial drive which will make us a five trillion 10 trillion dollar economy and many entrepreneurs have good ideas.

[00:54:05] They don't know how to execute.

[00:54:06] They don't know how to scale.

[00:54:08] And if I can help them in creating a peer to peer learning platform where they learn from each other then they will add value to their own business.

[00:54:21] Hopefully it'll lead to much larger businesses.

[00:54:24] It will help in India's growth story provide employment.

[00:54:27] So I strongly believe that entrepreneurs can add a lot of value to the society by providing employment improving lives and by taking this route of ascent we believe that we are able to add value.

[00:54:41] We have about 1000 entrepreneurs associated with ascent cumulative turnover of one lakh crores.

[00:54:49] If you add all the thousand entrepreneurs then we want to expand that initially started with Bombay then went to Chennai and we just launched in Delhi.

[00:54:57] But clearly Indian entrepreneur wanting to learn wanting to improve they can just visit our website www.snfoundation.in.

[00:55:08] I find this whole thing so there is it's almost for free for attending some events you may have to pay but these are events where they're held at good locations and includes whatever attendance food and all that.

[00:55:20] But otherwise we have got very good rating very good NPS course and we are looking for more entrepreneurs to join us.

[00:55:27] Now the fact that it's grown so much is a testament to the fact that something's working.

[00:55:32] And is this disconnected or aligned with Mariko innovation?

[00:55:35] No, no it is very different.

[00:55:37] And so the other part of my this is my personal philanthropic.

[00:55:40] And that's been up also for 20 years.

[00:55:43] And you know again it seems to be CSR arm per se.

[00:55:46] Yes it is and that reports directly to me.

[00:55:49] I didn't want the CEO to look after CSR arm so that part reports directly to me and I'm passionate about that.

[00:55:55] So I spend some time on that also.

[00:55:57] And we you know we came across this one of many testimonials around that was very hot brand today Atomberg.

[00:56:05] Yes, I think they gained phenomenally from that.

[00:56:07] Yeah, I mean we do mentoring and acceleration programs.

[00:56:10] I spent a lot of meetings with Atomberg in terms of changing their strategy.

[00:56:15] One other company S4S which makes all this dried vegetables and all that.

[00:56:20] And they wanted to launch their brand. I said don't go and launch a brand you will not be able to succeed.

[00:56:24] Go B2B, go to Oureka and they are thriving now.

[00:56:28] So I think that program allows you how do you get selected into that?

[00:56:33] No so you have to apply.

[00:56:34] There is a process Mariko Innovation Foundation as a website.

[00:56:37] Apply then they go through that thing we work with various starting with me to Mariko people to

[00:56:43] outside CEOs who retired they act as mentors.

[00:56:46] We also take three four challenges and send it to management schools as some are training program.

[00:56:52] So we do multiple things for helping innovative but innovation should be at the base of that.

[00:56:58] And what how early or late can you apply for that?

[00:57:01] No, as long as I mean it could be very small many of them are doing lax turn over but there is good potential.

[00:57:06] We should be able to do it.

[00:57:07] That's what selection criteria is trying to look for.

[00:57:09] So you have to apply innovation and your judge information is scaling up and what is preventing that innovation to happen.

[00:57:15] No it's fantastic.

[00:57:16] Scaling up to happen.

[00:57:17] Sorry.

[00:57:17] I mean clearly your way of giving back in more ways than one has always been visible but I wanted like again the audience to know that Mr.

[00:57:27] Marival has somewhat unique and special.

[00:57:30] Oh my God.

[00:57:31] No only because of this sequence of how you've a established the firm in the culture made India, you know, made it a very proud example for India that we can build consumer brands globally.

[00:57:44] We're trying to get in some sense pioneers who actually can become role models for others.

[00:57:51] And we would love for more DTC brand say if Mariko could do it.

[00:57:55] But if any of your brands want to have because I mentor on average six to eight and you know, they will take you up on that.

[00:58:01] Yeah.

[00:58:02] And no thanks again for the time before we wrap.

[00:58:05] I'm just going to try a few, you know, a small rapid fire around and then we'll thank you for your time today.

[00:58:13] What's your sort of go to stress buster?

[00:58:15] I think working out and when my grandchildren are in town spending time with them now how many grandchildren to create and most important lesson that you might have learned from.

[00:58:25] These various failures that non-thrown your goals.

[00:58:28] Great bouncing back.

[00:58:29] So passion combined with determination, perseverance and one one habit that you believe every entrepreneur should have.

[00:58:36] Is it the same grit or is it something else?

[00:58:38] So learning I think you ought to be curious and always on the learning move.

[00:58:42] And since you said workouts any favorite like what's what's a variety.

[00:58:47] I think every day is a different day.

[00:58:49] It's amazing to know that you're still at it.

[00:58:50] I do everything. I do yoga, pilates, weights, functional training, swimming, cycling, golf.

[00:58:56] Lovely. Lovely.

[00:58:57] And your favorite city is in India and outside India?

[00:59:00] I love Kanoor, which is I'm a South India.

[00:59:03] I go two, three times a year. I'm building house there.

[00:59:06] So it's favorite because of beautiful weather.

[00:59:08] Not so crowded and there's a golf course there.

[00:59:10] Okay. Awesome.

[00:59:11] And outside India?

[00:59:12] I think some, nothing's favorite, but I think mainly I would say British countryside, Switzerland, Austria, Germany.

[00:59:21] You seem to love the green.

[00:59:22] And any final advice for upcoming D2C brands?

[00:59:27] I know you've given a bunch.

[00:59:28] Create a strong right to win. Don't follow others.

[00:59:30] It's a highly competent environment and you need to be differentiated.

[00:59:34] Thank you again, Mr. Marivala for your time and the advice and wisdom collected over like now what 50 years.

[00:59:41] And hopefully will be evergreen through your books, through your foundations.

[00:59:46] So once again, pleasure having you today.

[00:59:49] Thank you.

[00:59:50] Mr. Marivala, I'm from the company, I'm a woman.

[00:59:54] They want to marry for life. They want to give you a ring.

[00:59:58] So please let us know your size and we should probably have it to you.

[01:00:02] We think there'll be our next story going long.

[01:00:05] Yeah.

[01:00:05] And in the future, it's not ready yet, but they want to do an answer at home.

[01:00:10] It gives you great environmental variables on whether everything's looking good at home.

[01:00:14] So we are awaiting that launch as well.

[01:00:16] But thank you.

[01:00:17] Okay.

[01:00:18] We thank IDFC First Bank for being our annual partner.

[01:00:22] IDFC First Bank is deeply engaged with the startup community in India.

[01:00:26] The commitment to fostering innovation and supporting entrepreneurship has made them a valuable partner in the growth journey of numerous startups, including many, many bloom portfolio companies.

[01:00:34] This partnership helps us in a mission to back the next generation of revolutionary founders in India.