‘When business leaders prioritise mental health, it sends a powerful message’

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to All Indians Matter, I am Ashra of Engineer. Stress levels are the

[00:00:04] work place through the roof as business gets tougher and pressure on employees to deliver

[00:00:09] stretches them to breaking point. Recent statistics show that 80% of the Indian workforce has

[00:00:14] reported mental health issues and globally, 15% of working-age adults live with a mental

[00:00:20] disorder. This has all sorts of manifestations such as depression as well as rising incidents

[00:00:25] of heart attacks and strokes. The good news is that there are very serious conversations

[00:00:29] happening about this and businesses big and small are taking steps to mitigate what many

[00:00:34] believe is a crisis. Work should come with the expectation of a safe and healthy working

[00:00:39] environment. Employment can positively impact mental health but can also contribute

[00:00:44] to its deterioration. So promoting mental wellbeing in the workplace is not only possible,

[00:00:49] but a solution.

[00:00:50] All Indians Matter

[00:00:54] We have on the show Abha Dandika, founder and CEO of Elephant in the Room. She set up this

[00:01:02] initiative to address mental wellbeing in the workplace, combat stigma and foster

[00:01:06] open conversations about mental health. In addition to this, Abha serves as the co-founder

[00:01:10] and HR lead at the Reentry Family Office and Reentry Foundation. Her previous experience

[00:01:16] encompasses corporate HR roles. She has an MBA from Bayes Business School and an MSC

[00:01:20] and Human Resource Management and Consulting from the University of Bath. Welcome Abha.

[00:01:25] Thank you so much, Ashraf. Thank you for having me.

[00:01:28] Abha, work-related stress is not a new phenomenon but it has come into the spotlight relatively

[00:01:33] recently. Why is this time so much more stressful?

[00:01:37] The recent increase in work-related stress can really be attributed to a number of different

[00:01:42] factors.

[00:01:43] Lately, there has been heightened job demands due to remote work. Post-COVID a lot of

[00:01:48] companies have turned into hybrid workforces or remote work and what this is doing is its

[00:01:53] blurring boundaries between personal and professional life. So this compounded with increased workload,

[00:02:00] compounded with concerns about job security, increasing uncertainties of the future of

[00:02:05] where jobs are going. All of this has collectively raised stresses at work and I think this whole

[00:02:14] concept of staying always switched on due to the intrusion of slack, zoom, multiple

[00:02:22] things, emails. Employees need to be constantly responsive now and that has really exacerbated

[00:02:27] the problem as well.

[00:02:29] That's right. But Abha, is there something about the contemporary work environment that

[00:02:34] is raising stress levels?

[00:02:36] Yes, I think in the contemporary work environment, you know, work is quicker. It's more fast

[00:02:41] pace. There is intensified competition. There are rapid changes in job roles as well.

[00:02:48] And what COVID really did is it forced companies and employees to rethink the nature of their

[00:02:52] work.

[00:02:53] And this means that there was a big shift in expectations in the way people work in

[00:02:57] what they're expected to do. And also in terms of how much burden of work people are

[00:03:01] expected to pull into their personal lives as well. And all these things have really led

[00:03:06] to increase in stress because, you know, there is uncertainty that is greater pressure.

[00:03:12] And people are also feeling a lack of autonomy in their work and this creates a feeling of

[00:03:17] irritation or frustration and a sense of helplessness. And all these factors really come together

[00:03:22] to increase stress levels when it comes to work.

[00:03:25] Yeah, I think Abha also corporate culture sometimes glorifies people working 80s, 80s

[00:03:30] hours a day, staying late in office, working over the weekends and so on. How did this come

[00:03:35] about? Do you think that's changing for the better?

[00:03:38] So the glorification of overwork and longer workers in corporate culture often stems from

[00:03:43] the perception that working longer hours equates to a perception of higher dedication.

[00:03:49] It equates to higher productivity and higher commitment to the job. And this may have roots

[00:03:53] in historical context as well, where longer hours were synonymous with hard work and success.

[00:03:59] And you know, more these days the technology like I said, the always meant on mentality

[00:04:04] is glorified. And people are expected to be immediately on top of things. However, that

[00:04:10] being said there is a growing awareness and acknowledgement of the detrimental effects

[00:04:14] of overwork on mental health, well being an overall productivity really. Many organizations

[00:04:20] are now adopting more flexible work policies. They are starting to promote work life balance

[00:04:25] and they are emphasizing output now rather than the arts-pented work. And encouraging employees

[00:04:30] to take breaks and prioritize their well-being. This shift does indicate a changing attitude

[00:04:35] towards work culture, and it does acknowledge the importance of a balanced lifestyle as well

[00:04:40] for mental and physical health. We recently at Drain Tree introduced comfort leaves as a leave

[00:04:45] category where employees are allotted a certain number of days they can take off every year.

[00:04:50] And these leaves people can avail of no questions asked. And the reason we did this is we

[00:04:55] really want to enable self-care and to provide for those days when people are feeling vulnerable

[00:04:59] and are unable to engage with the world or unable to participate and contribute to work.

[00:05:04] We recognize that those days exist and that's why we introduce comfort leaves as a policy

[00:05:10] to allow people to take those days off when they need them really.

[00:05:13] And so Abha, this brings me to a question I must ask about the most recent debate

[00:05:18] sparked by Infosys Koon founder, Narnarana and Murthy Sajjashan. Whether youth works 70 hours a week

[00:05:24] now, he was supported mainly by other business owners but also criticized by people across the board

[00:05:29] from doctors to regular employees. What's your stand on it?

[00:05:33] In my opinion, maintaining a healthy work life balance is crucial for overall well-being

[00:05:38] and honestly while hard work and dedication are commendable,

[00:05:42] excessively long work hours can lead to burnout and the negatively impact mental health and

[00:05:46] productivity. I think achieving a balance between work and personal life really allows individuals

[00:05:51] to recharge, to be more efficient at work and to lead fulfilling lives both at work and outside

[00:05:57] the office. Prioritizing mental health and advocating for reasonable working hours according to me

[00:06:03] is essential for long term success in well-being. And additionally, a mentally healthy individual also

[00:06:09] tends to be a more productive employee in the workplace because they're more resilient to daily

[00:06:15] stresses at home and at work so there is fewer less spillover into work and this generally leads to

[00:06:21] an increase in productivity and output. Absolutely and stress can lead to harmful physical

[00:06:26] and emotional responses as you said especially when there is a conflict between job demands and the

[00:06:30] amount of control the employee has or meeting those demands. Specifically personal relationships,

[00:06:36] what sort of effect does all this have on them? When a person experiences stress due to conflicts

[00:06:43] between job demands and also the control they have over meeting those demands it does of course

[00:06:48] affect their personal relationships. High-dense stress levels lead to emotional strain,

[00:06:53] they lead to irritability and they are also very importantly lead to a reduced capacity to communicate

[00:06:59] effectively. And all these things you know the strain that work can put on these effects as a result

[00:07:06] of work stress can spill over into personal relationships and cause tensions misunderstandings

[00:07:13] and it makes it difficult to manage interactions with family with friends with colleagues

[00:07:18] and you know all other dimensions of your personal sphere of life. And also you know

[00:07:22] persistence stress can result in emotional exhaustion and this reduces one's ability to engage

[00:07:28] positively in relationships and this leads to an increase in conflicts and an increase in strain

[00:07:34] in both professional and personal spheres. I think implementing changes in company policies

[00:07:40] can significantly benefit employees, reduced working hours do offer a better work-life balance

[00:07:46] and this enables employees and individuals really to nurture personal relationships and also

[00:07:51] fostering open conversations which has you know shown to have a positive effect on overall

[00:07:56] employee well-being. Could you talk about a case that you've come across in your work that stands out?

[00:08:02] So we have had employees in the past who have struggled with their mental health. There was one

[00:08:07] person in particular who stands out because she returned to work after a long absence due to medical

[00:08:11] reasons so she had to take a few you know five seven years out of work due to medical reasons

[00:08:18] and the return to a working environment had caused her to have you know she used to have panic attacks

[00:08:22] at work and for the longest time we didn't realize what was happening because she would hide

[00:08:27] herself away because she was hesitant to share the fact that she needed accommodation for her mental

[00:08:32] health and more importantly she was fearful of disclosing how stressful the return to work was for her

[00:08:37] because she feared backlash and she feared that this would negatively impact her job.

[00:08:42] So it really took some amount of communication and reassurance from our end

[00:08:46] for her to open up and talk about the issues while she's facing and that you know to that we

[00:08:52] it also took some time for us to understand that while she has the intent to work there are

[00:08:57] some days when it gets overwhelming for her and she simply cannot work and requires a timeout.

[00:09:03] Eventually we were able to work something out where we could create a safe space for her

[00:09:07] where she could create timeout where take a timeout where required

[00:09:11] and we also then set very clear weekly goals with her by collaborating with her to see what was

[00:09:17] achievable and to set very clear expectations so that there was clarity and this reduced the

[00:09:21] impact of a panic attacks to a certain extent but my point is that this you know all

[00:09:27] this accommodation that we could do for her only came about because of dialogue and that really

[00:09:32] drives home the point that there is an urgent need to create open dialogue and communication

[00:09:37] about mental health at work because only then can you know people open up about the mental health

[00:09:42] and ask for accommodation where needed and organizations can also take proactive measures to make

[00:09:47] sure organizational goals are met while still looking at the employee as an individual with their own

[00:09:52] individual needs. Absolutely and as I said earlier 80% of the Indian workforce has reported mental

[00:09:58] health issues and to me this sounds like epidemic level incidents and you know I think you already

[00:10:03] answered the question to some extent but if you could elaborate on are we really talking enough

[00:10:08] about it? Or the prevalence of mental health issues you know within the Indian workforce is very

[00:10:13] concerning um and while conversations around mental health have increased in recent years

[00:10:18] you know post-COVID people are more aware of mental health as a topic um there is still a significant

[00:10:25] gap between the level of awareness and the actual discussion happening about mental health challenges

[00:10:29] in the workplace um and some progress has been made in destigmatizing mental health issues

[00:10:34] but there is still a lot of ground left to cover in promoting open dialogues um and in

[00:10:39] workplaces providing adequate support systems uh we really need more comprehensive and sustained

[00:10:44] conversations around mental health with organizations walking the talk with initiatives that prioritize

[00:10:49] mental health education support and providing replo resources in workplaces um I recently read a

[00:10:57] report in the WHO and a report by Deloitte which said that India accounts for nearly 15% of the global

[00:11:03] mental mental health burden um and that's a very scary statistic um and the Deloitte report

[00:11:09] the Deloitte did a survey around mental health and well being in the workplace where they compiled

[00:11:14] insights from about 4,000 employees um and the survey did a deep dive into the top stressors

[00:11:19] at work from an employee's perspective but one very key takeaway from this report is that they

[00:11:26] estimated that the yearly economic cost to Indian companies arising from poor employee mental health

[00:11:32] amounted to 110,000 crore rupees last year um so we really do need to address mental health

[00:11:39] at the workplace and we need to look at how we can work on workplace well being because it's

[00:11:43] becoming a very key component of business strategy and HR strategy um and in the same report you know

[00:11:49] we found they found that societal stigma prevents around 39% of the responded affected respondents

[00:11:56] from taking step to manage their symptoms um and this again is a very scary number so we really

[00:12:01] do need to very actively work on mental health at work yeah it's quite staggering and

[00:12:05] but do you think that enough workplaces are understanding this and taking corrective measures?

[00:12:11] Despite some progress there still is a critical need for heightened awareness and decisive action

[00:12:16] regarding mental health in workplaces um and why some companies are acknowledging the impact of

[00:12:22] stress and demands on the employees um and few of them are implementing measures um it's not

[00:12:28] been universally adopted and prioritized across all sectors and work on employment to health

[00:12:33] is still largely segregated it's not an integrated push for a comprehensive you know transformation

[00:12:39] towards workplace well being um many workplaces still have to fully comprehend the adverse effects of

[00:12:45] you know these stressors and pressures on the well employees mental well being um and so

[00:12:51] you know more concerted efforts are necessary to create a culture of empathy um of support and

[00:12:56] for the organization to take proactive measures uh to safeguard the mental health of their workforce

[00:13:02] honestly awareness isn't enough it's the concerted continuous actions that will really make a

[00:13:07] difference in fostering a mentally healthy workplace absolutely and i think what i've noticed at

[00:13:12] least in uh my years and in corporate spaces that such things are left to HR but in my view this

[00:13:18] is something that the entire leadership needs to be cognizant of off and do something about what's

[00:13:23] your view oh absolutely mental health cannot be the sole responsibility of HR while HR is a very

[00:13:32] critical driver of workplace well being um it is a collective obligation that demands attention

[00:13:37] from every level of leadership within an organization um leadership you know it sets the tone for

[00:13:43] workplace culture and norms uh and when leaders prioritize mental health uh it sends a very

[00:13:48] powerful message through the organization um and this can be a very effective tool in destigmatizing

[00:13:54] mental health concern and in encouraging open conversations and creating those support networks

[00:13:59] within an organization so people feel uh like the organization is fostering their mental health

[00:14:04] we have seen this in Drentry as well because uh my so Drentry was founded by my mom my younger brother

[00:14:09] and i um and all three of us have been very open about our journey with mental health

[00:14:14] and the fact that we have been users of mental health and psychiatric services we still use them

[00:14:19] you know if you have good days if you have bad days uh we are very open about them um and we've

[00:14:25] found that because we are so open to talking about a mental health that worked because we feel no shame

[00:14:29] in it it is a fact of our lives the same way anything else is a fact and a part of our lives uh

[00:14:35] we've found that people at our workplace have also become more comfortable talking about mental

[00:14:39] health and discussing it openly and asking for help when needed and talking about the health

[00:14:43] they're getting so that the people around them understand what their situation is what their

[00:14:47] circumstances and what what what are the you know stressors that they're going through in their life

[00:14:53] um ultimately you know every leader's awareness and proactive involvement are crucial

[00:14:58] in fostering her safe and supportive work environment for all employees um and you know i mean

[00:15:04] there was a study done which i read recently in the paper um and 79% of employees put the role of

[00:15:09] leadership on top when it comes to the factors affecting the mental health at work um and i think

[00:15:14] this really drives home the point leaders need to walk the talk and then that you know drills

[00:15:19] it down to the last level of the company culture absolutely uh our let's put ourselves uh in the

[00:15:25] employees shoes for a second if if at all you are facing very high stress levels what can you as an

[00:15:32] employee do to take care of yourself oh so managing stress requires recognizing what your

[00:15:38] personal stressors are um and then affecting you know employing effective coping mechanisms for them

[00:15:44] um and this differs from person to person and at the end of the day your self care techniques have

[00:15:48] to be aligned with your interests um so for me for example um spending time with my pets as an

[00:15:54] instant stress reliever you know i go home i play with my dogs um i have a fish pond here so i spend

[00:15:59] time staring at my fish which really you know helps me empty my mind it's a form of meditation for me

[00:16:05] um you know engaging in reading helps me unwind as well it helps me empty my brain shed some of the

[00:16:10] stressors spend some time immersed in another world um so it's crucial for everyone to find that go

[00:16:15] to activity or hobby that provides them with relaxation um you know in this hectic life that we all

[00:16:21] lead um and then in addition to that you know regular exercise uh mindfulness practices maintaining

[00:16:27] your balance diet making sure you're getting the right nutrition um making sure you are you

[00:16:31] know setting boundaries between work and personal life and of course you know seeking support

[00:16:36] mental health needs caregivers people need support systems um so be open to talking about your

[00:16:41] mental health ask for the help you need ask for the support you need and build that social support

[00:16:46] because that really goes a long way when it comes to dealing with stress um you know self care at

[00:16:51] the end of the day is paramount and so dedicating time to recharge and focusing on your mental and

[00:16:56] emotional well-being um is critical in managing your stress absolutely but uh about there's also

[00:17:03] a lot of stigma associated around mental health ailments and if you are suffering from one of them

[00:17:10] how do you deal with the additional burden of the stigma? uh honestly and this is something I say

[00:17:16] time and time again uh the stigma is very difficult but it needs to that the breaking the stigma needs

[00:17:22] to start somewhere and so you know the number one step in breaking stigma is being open to

[00:17:28] talking about mental health honestly open discussions and education on mental health are crucial

[00:17:34] to breaking down stigma uh because it provides accurate information it dispels myths about mental

[00:17:39] health um and honestly if you are open to talking about your own mental health it does inspire

[00:17:44] other people as well and I've seen this in our own lives because my brother uh was diagnosed with

[00:17:49] depression and anxiety when he was in school um when he was very open about his mental health journey

[00:17:54] and all of us were very open about you know our journey as his caregivers and different times in

[00:17:59] life and we have used mental health services as well um and we realized that just talking about it

[00:18:04] openly without acting like you have something to be ashamed of or something to hide is such a powerful

[00:18:09] tool because it encourages other people who are going through similar circumstances um you know

[00:18:14] who can't really who don't have anyone they can talk to anyone who understands um it encourages them

[00:18:19] to come talk to you about it to open up to confide um and I found that you know between my brother

[00:18:24] and mother and I uh just by talking about it openly we have managed to send so many people into

[00:18:29] seeking help and really empowering people to become their own agents of change when it comes to

[00:18:34] them mental health um and taking charge of getting the help that they need um and so you know sharing

[00:18:40] personal experiences or stories can really humanize the issue um and encourage other people to seek

[00:18:45] help without fear of judgment um and then there's also you know helps create safe spaces within your

[00:18:50] own social circles within your communities um you know that's what we're trying to do as well

[00:18:55] through open power of conversations create these safe spaces within a workplace so that people are

[00:19:00] comfortable talking about mental health and asking for the help that they seek um but you know

[00:19:05] ultimately stigma doesn't solely originate from external sources um so it's also depends on

[00:19:11] the individuals themselves uh it is possible to mistakenly perceive your condition as a reflection

[00:19:16] of your personal weakness or assume that you can manage it independently uh but honestly no one can

[00:19:22] fight a war alone right people need support systems and so you need to talk about it you need to

[00:19:28] be open about it you need to talk to your caregivers talk to your you know people that you trust who

[00:19:32] you know will be there for you um and then of course take a step further engaging in counseling

[00:19:37] educating yourself about your condition connecting with individuals who have experienced you

[00:19:41] know similar mental health challenges can help boost your self esteem um and all these things

[00:19:46] collectively you know it becomes a collective action over time where multiple people are talking

[00:19:50] about mental health multiple people are talking about mental health in a positive manner

[00:19:55] and this then you know pushes that movement further when it comes to destigmatizing mental health

[00:20:00] what about i mean if you as an employee you are facing undue demands unreasonable

[00:20:06] demands for example is there legislation that you can turn to?

[00:20:11] uh yes there are some legislations that support employees going through mental health issues

[00:20:15] of facing discrimination due to mental health um the employees state insurance act

[00:20:20] provides for the health and social security workers um so employees covered under the scheme

[00:20:26] have access to medical benefits including treatment for mental health issues um then there's also

[00:20:30] the mental health care act of 2017 uh which safeguards the rights of individuals living with

[00:20:35] mental illness um this act also guarantees access to mental health care and prohibits discriminations

[00:20:41] against individuals living with mental health conditions um across various settings one of which

[00:20:46] is of course employment um and further through that you know they i mean depending on where you work

[00:20:51] your organization may have corporate policies and programs as well uh to address mental health in

[00:20:56] the workplace a lot of organizations now have employee assistance programs on board um so these

[00:21:02] are partnerships with companies that offer mental health services um so you know look to see if your

[00:21:07] organization has such a tie up in that case you know you can access mental health services through

[00:21:12] your workplace itself so now tell us about elephant in the room um so elephant in the room is an

[00:21:18] organization that focuses on workplace mental health uh we partner with businesses to build mentally

[00:21:23] healthier workplaces um and you know we do this because we believe that workplace well-being is a key

[00:21:28] contributor to business success um and like i said earlier it needs to become a co-part of HR

[00:21:33] strategy uh so elephant in the room works with corporates across multiple levels uh to build education

[00:21:39] and awareness on mental health so that people can really understand the topic um and they're empowered

[00:21:44] to seek help when they need so that they don't have to suffer through mental health issues or crises

[00:21:48] in silence uh so effectively we work with the organization to create communities of people

[00:21:53] who are sensitized on mental health um and then we work with the organization itself to help them

[00:21:58] create safe spaces where uh employees are able to acknowledge their mental health um and also so

[00:22:03] that they have the confidence in their organizations ability to provide for their needs uh so through

[00:22:08] capacity building and mental health education across different teams and levels um and by using a

[00:22:13] holistic multi-pronged approach uh we work with organizations to fuel a cultural transformation

[00:22:18] towards a more positive proactive and engaging approach towards employee well-being and mental health

[00:22:24] right so what's next for it uh so we have built some offerings uh we are currently in the

[00:22:28] process of building a suite of services uh that can provide both generalized and bespoke solutions

[00:22:34] uh for an organization's well-being needs uh we have completed a number of successful engagements

[00:22:40] with very positive responses um people have appreciated the delivery of our workshops the

[00:22:45] structure of our engagement the structure of our approach uh so now we're working to scaling

[00:22:50] this towards a commercial launch my dream personally is to reach as many organizations as possible

[00:22:56] because our work will only have an impact in the workplace but this knowledge you know not only

[00:23:01] will it have an impact in the workplace sorry uh but this knowledge and capacity building that we do

[00:23:06] with individuals uh towards building attitudes or better attitudes towards mental health

[00:23:12] they also provide life skills that are very important for building resilience

[00:23:16] and for being able to take better care of ones with mental health um and so therefore while we do

[00:23:21] work in corporates each employee that we educate an empower will become a champion for mental health

[00:23:26] in their own right um and this will create the multiplier effect that I want to see where they take

[00:23:31] their learnings from their personal life um and then they apply that to their own family and social

[00:23:35] circles um so I think this will become very powerful because what they you know what what they learn

[00:23:40] at work when it comes to mental health uh they can really take home and and really expand their

[00:23:45] fear of influence when it comes to becoming a safe space for mental health and taking care of one's

[00:23:50] own mental health and those around you so Abba here's a question I ask all my guests at the end

[00:23:55] of the show why do you do this work? I truly believe in the need to empower people uh and to build

[00:24:02] you know to empower people to build agency uh and to really take action on their own mental health

[00:24:08] uh and this can only happen through understanding and education uh you know like we discussed

[00:24:12] earlier the mental health cases can be considered a pandemic uh and I really want to work on the social

[00:24:18] movement that's required to open conversations around mental health uh I want to change the

[00:24:22] discourse around mental health i want to change the way people approach it and this can only happen

[00:24:28] through building education uh dispelling myths and stigmas around mental health and helping people

[00:24:34] understand their own mental health and what mental health actually means um and you know I have

[00:24:39] experienced the power of openly talking about mental health myself um and owning my own mental

[00:24:44] health journey and my struggles uh like I said i've been your user of mental health services

[00:24:49] i've been a caregiver for people who use mental health services and so over the years i realized

[00:24:54] the only way we can move the needle on people's attitudes is by owning our own journey and experiences

[00:25:00] and by not thinking that we have something to hide um so we really need a complete paradigm shift

[00:25:05] in how will you mental health uh so that we can work more proactively towards better resilience

[00:25:09] and mental health care for all um and that's really what motivates me and drives me to do what I do

[00:25:14] i want more people to act on their own mental health and i want to create a world that's safer

[00:25:19] for people to act on their mental health and so you know the journey to that starts with education

[00:25:24] and that's what uh few wills me. Abba thanks so much for being on the show and thanks also

[00:25:29] for the kinder about your own personal experiences. Thank you so much Ashraf hopefully we can all

[00:25:35] work together to build a world that's mentally healthier and the build a world where we all talk

[00:25:40] about our mental health very openly, very candidly um and really own our own journeys.

[00:25:45] Thank you all for listening please visit allindians matter.in.ca.wl

[00:25:50] i.n.d.i.a.nsm.a.w.r.in for more columns and audio podcasts you can follow me on twitter

[00:25:56] at ashtrayfengineer.com. That's ASHRAF, ENGINWR and allindians count their say.wl

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[00:26:07] on instagram the handle is allindians matter email me at editor at allindians matter.in catch you again

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