‘If food labels are not understood, it can impact your health badly’

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[00:00:25] Hello and welcome to All Indians Matter, I'm Ashraf Engineer.

[00:00:28] In May 2024, the Indian Council of Medical Research or ICMR warned that information on packaged food labels can be misleading.

[00:00:36] ICMR guidelines drafted with the help of the National Institute of Nutrition said, and I quote,

[00:00:40] health claims on packaged food are designed to catch the consumer's attention and convince them that the product is healthy, stop quote.

[00:00:47] One example was sugar-free foods associated with low calories preferred by diabetics or people watching their weight.

[00:00:53] ICMR's Dietary Guidelines for India 2024 warned, and I quote,

[00:00:56] sugar-free foods may be loaded with fats, refined cereals, white flour, starch, and even hidden sugars, maltitol, fructose, corn syrup, molasses.

[00:01:05] These would imply high glycemic index and high calories in the food item, stop quote.

[00:01:10] In July, the Food Safety and Standards Authority of India or FSSAI approved a proposal to display nutritional information

[00:01:16] such as total sugar, salt and saturated fat content in bold letters on packaged food labels.

[00:01:22] However, experts said this may not be enough to make consumers aware of the contents, and they demanded even more definitive warning systems.

[00:01:37] We have on the show Shashi Kumar, co-founder and CEO of Akshay Kalpa Organic.

[00:01:41] After 17 years in the technology industry, Shashi turned his mind to rethinking and recreating India's farm sector.

[00:01:47] Six generations of his family were involved in agriculture, so this was a subject close to his heart.

[00:01:52] In 2010, he, along with noted veterinarian and social entrepreneur Dr. GNS Reddy, started Akshay Kalpa Organic.

[00:01:59] Today, it is one of India's largest certified organic milk companies, serving customers across Karnataka, Telangana, and Tamil Nadu.

[00:02:06] Shashi, welcome.

[00:02:08] Thank you, Akshay, for hosting me. Thank you.

[00:02:12] Shashi, on the face of it, food labeling requirements seem to be well-formed.

[00:02:16] However, they don't actually perform the tasks they're supposed to.

[00:02:19] Where do they fall short?

[00:02:20] I think there's a huge gap between what label says and what consumer understands.

[00:02:27] So that is where the problem is.

[00:02:29] There's a big gap.

[00:02:31] There's a labeling law which says you need to display certain information in a certain way.

[00:02:36] And we need to really, why that display, the law is saying is, consumer need to understand.

[00:02:43] But consumer understanding of that information is extremely low.

[00:02:47] So, for example, when you say there's no added sugar, doesn't mean there's no sugar in the product.

[00:02:54] Okay, there's a very mis-labeling.

[00:02:57] Okay, but you can still say there's no added sugar.

[00:03:00] But sugar can come from a lot more sources.

[00:03:02] For example, sugar can come from fruits.

[00:03:05] Sugar can come from, okay, dates.

[00:03:07] Sugar can come from a lot of things as an ingredient.

[00:03:09] Okay, in the overall product.

[00:03:12] So, therefore, show me an example.

[00:03:15] For example, how many of us understand those INS numbers?

[00:03:18] Okay, I as a consumer, I don't understand.

[00:03:21] Okay, there is a lot of INS numbers, E numbers associated with every ingredient.

[00:03:27] Okay, which is going into the food.

[00:03:30] Okay, be it a preservative, be it an emulsifier.

[00:03:33] Okay, be it a acidity regulator.

[00:03:36] Be it, you call whatever you want to call.

[00:03:39] Okay, understanding at a consumer level is extremely poor.

[00:03:43] So, that is a gap.

[00:03:44] So, what regulators are trying to do is, can we put it in bold?

[00:03:48] It will catch people's attention.

[00:03:51] Or regulators are trying to say, can we change the nomenclature of how it is written?

[00:03:56] Okay, and also they are trying to regulate.

[00:03:58] When you say sugar-free, what do you mean by sugar-free?

[00:04:02] So, they are trying to give that kind of interpretation.

[00:04:04] I think it is an ongoing exercise of a discussion between food industry and regulators.

[00:04:10] It will be ongoing and it will continue to evolve.

[00:04:13] But the gap is that what is said and what is understood is miles apart.

[00:04:19] Yeah, true.

[00:04:20] And according to you, what should be the key elements of any warning system?

[00:04:24] The fundamental of any food, in my opinion, should really come out.

[00:04:29] So, you are being in this product as something which is not natural.

[00:04:35] For example, you have got added a flavor, which is not natural.

[00:04:41] Okay, I have added an acidity regulator.

[00:04:43] It is not natural.

[00:04:44] So, you have added an emulsifier, which is not natural.

[00:04:47] So, you have got a lot of preservatives, which are not natural.

[00:04:51] They need to really pop out.

[00:04:53] Okay, but generally that doesn't happen.

[00:04:55] If you really take any label, if you go and see what has been added, those are written in

[00:04:59] a very smallest possible font on a label.

[00:05:05] Okay, so can that be changed?

[00:05:08] That is one aspect.

[00:05:08] Of course, nutrition label is coming out quite well.

[00:05:11] Okay, now what is the fat content?

[00:05:13] What are the saturated fats?

[00:05:15] Okay, what are the sugar content?

[00:05:17] How much calories out there?

[00:05:19] All these things are fine.

[00:05:21] Even that understanding itself is lacking how to read a nutrition label.

[00:05:25] But ingredient reading is the most critical aspect.

[00:05:29] So, ingredient reading and the nutrition reading actually gets muddled up more often than not.

[00:05:36] Ingredients are separate.

[00:05:37] The nutrition is separate.

[00:05:38] They get mixed up.

[00:05:40] So, in my opinion, there needs to be a clear distinction on ingredients.

[00:05:44] What's happening?

[00:05:46] Okay.

[00:05:46] And for example, you can call it as a kaju barfi.

[00:05:49] If a kaju is 2%, okay, there are a lot of things which are happening.

[00:05:53] Okay.

[00:05:55] So, these kind of things in a label now makes consumer getting confused.

[00:06:01] Nutrition part and ingredient part getting mixed up.

[00:06:04] For example, I'll give you one more example.

[00:06:07] You've got a preservative.

[00:06:08] Okay.

[00:06:09] Added into your food.

[00:06:11] What part of the nutrition it is contributing?

[00:06:14] Nobody knows.

[00:06:15] It's a preservative.

[00:06:17] Okay.

[00:06:17] To give a shelf life to the product.

[00:06:19] It is not contributing to any part of the nutrition.

[00:06:22] In fact, it is contributing to side effects if it is consumed disproportionately.

[00:06:27] That is never discussed.

[00:06:29] So, this is where our food systems in India are right now.

[00:06:33] I should say very transitionary phase.

[00:06:36] Okay.

[00:06:37] From what it was hidden facts to open facts to facts which consumers can understand.

[00:06:43] So, in my opinion, these two parts.

[00:06:46] Okay.

[00:06:46] One is the ingredient part and the nutrition part really need to be made an attempt by regulators

[00:06:53] and brands.

[00:06:55] Okay.

[00:06:55] To call them out and call them out and explain to consumers properly.

[00:07:01] Absolutely.

[00:07:02] And Shashi, I know you've touched upon this next issue a bit but I want to talk a little

[00:07:06] bit about it in detail.

[00:07:08] Because there seems to be a lot of concern over products that claim to be sugar-free or

[00:07:12] low on fat.

[00:07:13] That's not always the case as you've explained to some extent.

[00:07:18] Could you walk us through a little more in detail on that issue?

[00:07:23] When you say sugar-free, okay.

[00:07:26] Now, we need to really understand what I mentioned.

[00:07:28] What is an added sugar?

[00:07:30] Okay.

[00:07:32] For example, if you take, let me say, sugar broken into fructose.

[00:07:39] Take sugar and fructose.

[00:07:40] So, fructose has got more sugars than the actual sugar.

[00:07:44] So, when you say sugar-free, okay.

[00:07:47] What does it mean?

[00:07:48] It needs to be really defined.

[00:07:50] Okay.

[00:07:50] And consumers don't understand.

[00:07:52] Okay.

[00:07:53] The problem starts there.

[00:07:54] I'm just giving an example.

[00:07:55] Okay.

[00:07:56] And let us assume, okay.

[00:08:00] If you take milk as an example.

[00:08:02] Milk has lactose.

[00:08:03] Okay.

[00:08:03] Lactose gets broken into glucose and galactose if a certain enzyme is present in the gut.

[00:08:09] Okay.

[00:08:10] Glucose and galactose are much more sugary than actual sugar.

[00:08:14] Okay.

[00:08:15] So, we need to really make consumers understand.

[00:08:18] Sugars are required.

[00:08:19] It's an energy source.

[00:08:20] It is required.

[00:08:21] But how sugars are given, it's very, very important.

[00:08:25] Okay.

[00:08:25] For example, if you're consuming a sugar through a lactose.

[00:08:28] Okay.

[00:08:29] Okay.

[00:08:29] What happens when you're consuming a sugar through lactose is, in a body, gut already has

[00:08:34] an enzyme.

[00:08:34] Okay.

[00:08:35] Lactase acts on lactose and breaks down to, okay, glucose and galactose.

[00:08:42] Okay.

[00:08:42] Now, body absorbs.

[00:08:44] Body can't take lactose.

[00:08:45] Okay.

[00:08:46] But it can take glucose and galactose.

[00:08:48] So, therefore, it's a slow release system of energy, not a spike.

[00:08:51] Okay.

[00:08:52] So, when it happens, most of the sugary foods, sugar-free is a very nonsensical word in my

[00:08:58] opinion.

[00:08:59] Okay.

[00:09:00] And sugars are required.

[00:09:01] But how the sugars are released into the body is what it is important.

[00:09:06] Sugar spikes are not good.

[00:09:08] Sudden spike in sugar is not good.

[00:09:11] Can you get a slow release of the sugar is what is important.

[00:09:14] So, therefore, most of the natural, okay, sugar, for example, when you eat a fruit, not a fruit

[00:09:20] juice, okay, it's a better sugar release system.

[00:09:25] Okay.

[00:09:25] More often than not, we don't understand.

[00:09:27] Okay.

[00:09:28] Rather than eating glucose, can we actually use lactose so that enzyme can act and slowly

[00:09:34] release it.

[00:09:35] So, these are some of the changes we need to understand from a sugar.

[00:09:39] Sugar is free.

[00:09:40] It doesn't mean anything.

[00:09:43] What is important is how the sugars are released into the body, into the bloodstream.

[00:09:48] And Shashi, one of the biggest problems in India is that many labels feature misleading

[00:09:53] claims.

[00:09:53] There are inconsistent standards.

[00:09:55] And sometimes the text is illegible.

[00:09:57] Now, one consistent complaint is that enforcement of regulations around these things is also

[00:10:02] weak.

[00:10:02] What impact can this have on consumer health and safety?

[00:10:06] Oh, it's a disaster.

[00:10:07] Right now, if you really look at the labeling laws, okay, and I told you a kaju example I

[00:10:15] gave you.

[00:10:15] It's a kaju burfi.

[00:10:17] And you're calling it kaju burfi.

[00:10:18] Only 2% of it is kaju.

[00:10:21] Can you call it as a kaju burfi?

[00:10:22] So, we can give a lot more examples like this, what's happening.

[00:10:27] But one is, okay, of course, nutritional aspect of the food.

[00:10:31] If you can leave that one out.

[00:10:33] If the label is not properly understood, it has a huge implication on consumer health.

[00:10:38] If a consumer doesn't understand, okay, that, okay, this kind of product is actually spiking

[00:10:44] my sugar.

[00:10:45] One part of it.

[00:10:46] What is metabolically, what is impacting in his body?

[00:10:50] So, first understanding.

[00:10:52] The labeling laws are not very, very clear on this aspect.

[00:10:56] So, labeling, you say no added sugar, label alose, okay.

[00:11:01] But what happens if they don't add sugar and you've got a replacement for that sugar?

[00:11:06] Okay.

[00:11:07] So, there are no questions.

[00:11:10] Okay, let me say it's adding a lot of fruit.

[00:11:13] Okay, a lot of fruit pulp.

[00:11:14] Or you're adding this one.

[00:11:16] Okay, still it is giving sugars.

[00:11:17] It's no added sugar, but still it is giving sugars.

[00:11:21] The health implications to your question is, most of, for example, if you take milk as

[00:11:28] an example, okay.

[00:11:29] Milk, nobody says on the label that my milk is alphotoxin free.

[00:11:36] Okay.

[00:11:37] Alphotoxin is the most carcinogenic known.

[00:11:40] Okay.

[00:11:41] If you eat it, for sure, your liver damage will happen.

[00:11:45] Okay.

[00:11:46] Most of the milk in India has alphotoxins today.

[00:11:49] There's a regulation around amount of alphotoxins in the milk.

[00:11:52] It is not enforceable.

[00:11:54] So, I'm saying consumers are absolutely blind on their food and implication on health.

[00:12:02] So, therefore, labeling laws and brands actually should make that attempt to educate consumers

[00:12:08] what is happening.

[00:12:10] For example, we write boldly saying that, you know, milk is free of antibiotics and alphotoxins.

[00:12:17] Okay.

[00:12:17] Because a lot of work has happened on that and we can write that.

[00:12:21] But, if consumers, what is this interpretation of alphotoxin?

[00:12:25] Does it really understand what alphotoxin means?

[00:12:28] Brands should make an active effort.

[00:12:30] Why?

[00:12:30] They should seek out a food which is free of alphotoxins.

[00:12:34] Okay.

[00:12:35] Antibiotics.

[00:12:35] Other aspect in, okay, for example, how many consumers understand implications of antibiotics?

[00:12:41] Today, World Health Organization says very clearly what is the biggest, okay,

[00:12:47] entrance to human health is antibiotic resistance.

[00:12:51] We are eating antibiotics through food, left and right, through meat, through milk.

[00:12:56] Okay.

[00:12:56] Through a lot of means, we are eating it.

[00:12:58] Okay.

[00:12:59] The body is developing resistance to, okay, any, okay, infection.

[00:13:05] Later on, when you treat for that infection, the body is not responding because you already

[00:13:10] loaded with a lot of antibiotics.

[00:13:12] So, consumers are absolutely blind on that.

[00:13:15] Okay.

[00:13:16] You heard a lot of conversations.

[00:13:18] My dad was perfectly fine.

[00:13:20] Okay.

[00:13:20] He was eating perfectly fine food.

[00:13:22] He got a cancer.

[00:13:24] So, they are anecdotal.

[00:13:26] Okay.

[00:13:26] We can always go back and see what is perfect food.

[00:13:28] Okay.

[00:13:29] And they never understood, okay, these implications.

[00:13:33] Okay.

[00:13:33] This already is happening.

[00:13:35] So, in my opinion, Ashraf, we have reached a stage in the country where, in my opinion,

[00:13:42] battle on the food labeling is lost, to be honest.

[00:13:46] And no consumer understands.

[00:13:49] A regulator, okay, is trying his best to fix this issue.

[00:13:54] Okay.

[00:13:54] But it is too big a problem.

[00:13:58] And I'm glad you mentioned consumer education.

[00:14:01] Because I think successive governments have tried to do something about it.

[00:14:05] I mean, let's be fair.

[00:14:06] Say every government has tried to do something about it.

[00:14:08] But obviously, it's not worked well enough.

[00:14:10] What do you think is needed for a more educated consumer to come about?

[00:14:17] Three fundamental questions we need to ask, Ashraf.

[00:14:20] Okay.

[00:14:22] We need to encourage consumers to ask, where did my food came from?

[00:14:26] Okay.

[00:14:26] So, source traceability becomes critical, irrespective of if it's organic or otherwise.

[00:14:30] Okay.

[00:14:31] And the second thing is, who grew it and how it was grown?

[00:14:34] If these three questions are answered, okay, most of the supply chain issues, for example,

[00:14:39] once, let me say, once a vegetable which is produced, okay, without using any chemicals,

[00:14:47] okay, with a good, okay, production practices, getting into your supply system, it is perfect

[00:14:53] food.

[00:14:53] Okay.

[00:14:54] But we are not answering questions there.

[00:14:57] Okay.

[00:14:58] And a recent study in Bangalore, okay, regulators picked up some sample of vegetables throughout

[00:15:04] the Bangalore from various distribution points.

[00:15:07] And it's damning.

[00:15:09] The report is damning amount of lead contamination, amount of heavy metals, amount of pesticides.

[00:15:14] It's just a damning, okay, in vegetables and greens.

[00:15:18] Okay.

[00:15:21] Okay.

[00:15:22] Okay.

[00:15:22] Our challenge for anybody who wants to get into education spaces, how to put it across

[00:15:28] to a consumer the way you understand.

[00:15:30] So, encourage them to ask questions, questions, questions, go deeper.

[00:15:34] Then the brands who are providing these produce to consumers, they will become conscious.

[00:15:41] It has to be brand-driven approach to solve this problem.

[00:15:45] While the regulator is supervisor, the regulator is telling you, hey, do this.

[00:15:49] But brands really need to go out of way, okay, to take consumers onto their side.

[00:15:54] It is not happening right now, Ashraf, to be honest.

[00:15:58] In fact, that was going to be my next question.

[00:16:00] How much of the onus is on the food corporations or the brands that are in the market?

[00:16:05] We've answered that, of course.

[00:16:07] But, you know...

[00:16:07] No, no.

[00:16:08] Just to add in that point, all of it, okay, lies on the brands and food companies.

[00:16:15] It is their responsibility to really educate customers in terms of what they are feeding

[00:16:21] them.

[00:16:21] Okay.

[00:16:23] So, for example, if you take on a juice bottle, which is bottled, okay, bottled, versus a fruit,

[00:16:33] okay?

[00:16:34] Fruit is always 10,000 times better than what is actually bottled.

[00:16:39] But why are you bottling it?

[00:16:41] Fine.

[00:16:41] You bottled it as a business model.

[00:16:43] Now, we explain what are the implications.

[00:16:46] Is there a regular...

[00:16:47] Acidity regulator is there.

[00:16:48] Preservative is there to shelf life.

[00:16:50] Okay.

[00:16:50] And you're adding a lot of sugar to make sure, okay, carbs are that one again and again.

[00:16:56] When it drinks one bottle, again, it takes another bottle.

[00:16:58] So, versus a fruit, which is with a lot of pulp, a lot of fiber, you eat.

[00:17:03] So, can brands take this bold approach saying that, hey, you know, by taking this, this is

[00:17:10] the downside.

[00:17:11] Taking this, this is the upside.

[00:17:13] But in my opinion, it's very difficult for brands to make that call.

[00:17:18] In fact, Shashi, one of the key worries is the food that our children consume.

[00:17:21] Now, we live in an era of packaged foods, of course.

[00:17:24] And even milk has additives, as you've mentioned.

[00:17:27] Children certainly don't eat labels.

[00:17:29] But even parents often neglect to do so carefully.

[00:17:32] What would you advise parents to do before giving their children packaged food?

[00:17:35] I think because what's happened is today, it's become very common to feed children packaged

[00:17:39] foods because parents are busy.

[00:17:40] There's a huge amount of pressure on time.

[00:17:43] So, this seems to be the easy way out often.

[00:17:47] This again boils down to the same question, Ashraf.

[00:17:50] Can parents read the label?

[00:17:52] Okay.

[00:17:53] And understand what are the implications.

[00:17:55] Say, I've been a chess player.

[00:17:57] Okay.

[00:17:57] I've played a lot of chess, a lot of tournaments.

[00:17:59] Every tournament I went now, when I sit in an opponent player, a lot of them are kids.

[00:18:04] Six years, five years, ten years kids.

[00:18:07] Okay.

[00:18:08] Because there's a chess playing kids.

[00:18:10] Most of them have a sugary drink on the table.

[00:18:14] Okay.

[00:18:15] And parents actually walk in and hand over the sugary drink to the kid.

[00:18:19] Okay.

[00:18:19] Kid puts on the table and pays three hours match.

[00:18:22] Okay.

[00:18:23] He keeps drinking that sugary drink.

[00:18:24] Okay.

[00:18:25] So, that's the level we have gone of ignorance.

[00:18:28] Okay.

[00:18:29] In my opinion, we should hold parents accountable for what kids are eating.

[00:18:34] Okay.

[00:18:35] Parents these days don't cook at home for various reasons.

[00:18:38] They are busy and package it for.

[00:18:41] Okay.

[00:18:42] Food coming from a lot of restaurants, which is unauthenticated.

[00:18:47] We don't know what they are using.

[00:18:49] It is not under labeling purview.

[00:18:51] If you say paneer butter masala.

[00:18:54] Okay.

[00:18:55] What does that mean?

[00:18:56] It means a lot of things in Pune, a lot of things in Bangalore, a lot of things in a lot of places.

[00:19:00] Okay.

[00:19:02] So, parents need to really start understanding what kid is eating.

[00:19:08] Start eating.

[00:19:09] Start cooking at home.

[00:19:10] So, that's a fundamental answer, Ashraf.

[00:19:14] Okay.

[00:19:14] Beyond that, if parents are conscious about children's health, they need to make an attempt.

[00:19:21] Yeah.

[00:19:22] Actually, I also wanted to talk a little bit about the organic food trend that we are witnessing nowadays.

[00:19:27] ICMR guidelines said that not all organic food claims should be believed.

[00:19:31] And they said, and I quote,

[00:19:32] When a food label states organic, it may simply mean that it is free of all artificial preservatives, flavors and colors,

[00:19:38] and that the food ingredients are free from pesticides and chemical fertilizers.

[00:19:42] If both the above conditions are met, then the label can state 100% organic

[00:19:47] and have the Jaivik Bharat logo approved by the FSSAI.

[00:19:50] Stop quote.

[00:19:51] At the same time, any food item including fruit juices containing only 10% or less of fruit is allowed to claim

[00:19:58] that it is made with real fruit pulp or juice.

[00:20:00] However, the product may have added sugar and other additives with only 10% of actual fruit pulp.

[00:20:06] So, there is a huge contradiction there.

[00:20:09] Yes.

[00:20:10] See, the challenge, for example, the organic process now, one thing is, okay, absence of, okay, chemicals,

[00:20:18] absence of, okay, pesticides, traces, residues, etc.

[00:20:22] Another is the production process itself needs to be certified.

[00:20:25] For example, you can't use a Gahu, okay, which is just free of pesticides, okay, free of, okay,

[00:20:32] chemical tases and still claim organic.

[00:20:34] No.

[00:20:35] How the Gahu itself was produced?

[00:20:37] The land needs to be certified.

[00:20:39] Crop needs to be certified.

[00:20:41] Then the Gahu coming out of that, getting into any ingredient, actually qualifies to be organic.

[00:20:46] So, that is the organic process.

[00:20:48] Actually, a lot of people misunderstand this entire thing.

[00:20:51] So, that's the reason the certification systems are very clear.

[00:20:56] Certify the land first.

[00:20:57] Two, three years it will take to organic certification.

[00:20:59] Then certify the crop.

[00:21:01] Crop output coming from the crop actually can get into an organic, okay, labeling system.

[00:21:06] Organic ACTA you can call.

[00:21:08] Okay, once you have that.

[00:21:09] Of course, to make the ACTA itself, there are a lot of restrictions in terms of, okay, ACTA making system.

[00:21:15] Okay, how it should be, okay, isolated in terms of a traceability point of view.

[00:21:19] All of it, okay.

[00:21:21] Yes, so the second point, what you raise, okay, is in terms of using 10% of, okay,

[00:21:30] you can just say it is an orange juice, okay, if you want to claim that.

[00:21:35] So, there are no restrictions on that, okay.

[00:21:38] I think law itself, no, needs to be really re-looked at it, okay.

[00:21:42] But I think regulators are making that attempt.

[00:21:44] Okay, let us see how it progresses, Asha.

[00:21:48] Takes us back to the 2% kaju and kaju barfi example that you gave.

[00:21:53] You know, it also reminds me, given that you are talking about barfi and juice and sugars, etc.

[00:21:57] India has become the diabetes capital of the world.

[00:22:01] And heart ailments are also so increasingly common.

[00:22:03] And it just struck me that labeling becomes even more critical in such a situation.

[00:22:08] It could well reduce the disease burden and the pressure on the national health system.

[00:22:13] Yeah.

[00:22:14] Now, Shashi, India largely has back-of-pack labeling.

[00:22:18] But now, several food scientists and activist groups around the world have demanded front-of-pack labeling.

[00:22:24] And this is happening in India also.

[00:22:26] And this is a global practice proven to reduce the consumption of unhealthy foods.

[00:22:30] Are you in support of that?

[00:22:31] What's your view?

[00:22:32] Yes.

[00:22:33] Yes, very much.

[00:22:34] The front-of-pack FOP, okay, is a very critical element to state what is important.

[00:22:41] That's the reason I'm saying, you know, in the back of a pack, what you can write in very, very small,

[00:22:46] unconstructed, even not able to read kind of a situation.

[00:22:50] Can you bring your INS number?

[00:22:52] Can you dare it able enough to bring your INS number?

[00:22:54] Say, I'll use the preservative.

[00:22:56] Okay.

[00:22:57] Be conscious about that.

[00:22:59] So, the front-of-pack labeling, you know, it's an extremely important initiative.

[00:23:05] If we can bring majority aspects into front-of-pack, okay, that actually solves a lot of problems.

[00:23:10] It catches the consumer attention first time, okay, and the consumer is able to decide, hey, should I give it or not?

[00:23:17] See, for example, if you could see in a lot of protein drinks, actually, they are able to say, this has got 25 gram protein.

[00:23:23] So, you could really see, Amul, okay, recently launched, okay, one milkshake, okay.

[00:23:30] In that one, they are written, it has got 25 gram protein.

[00:23:33] So, it's a good front-of-pack labeling initiative.

[00:23:37] Just, you're trying to declare this is the amount of protein it has.

[00:23:40] Of course, we need to be able to declare, hey, I've also added, okay, preservative to make sure the milkshake reaches you.

[00:23:46] So, those kind of, okay, initiatives, okay, need to really become mainstream.

[00:23:51] But bands are doing on their own, okay, but that needs to become mainstream.

[00:23:56] Yeah.

[00:23:57] And also, I think it's not just about font size, which we have talked about, you know, when it comes to sugar and things like that.

[00:24:02] And it's not just about front-of-pack labeling.

[00:24:04] But, you know, when you say the component of sugar is this much or fats is this much, that's actually normally of the entire pack.

[00:24:13] And, you know, we also need to say what is it per serving that is actually more informative and would probably make for a better informed consumer.

[00:24:21] What's your view?

[00:24:23] In fact, the labeling law is very clear.

[00:24:26] We need to declare per serving how much, okay, it is.

[00:24:28] For example, if you are buying a one liter, okay, let me say milk, okay, per serving, okay, nutrition needs to be deplete.

[00:24:39] Per serving, if it is 200 grams, per serving, if it is what you are taking.

[00:24:43] We need to declare for 200 grams what is the calcium, okay, what are the vitamins, what is this?

[00:24:48] And we need to declare.

[00:24:49] It is mandated by law, okay?

[00:24:51] I think that's a very good starting point.

[00:24:53] But we generally don't understand, okay, between the quantity which is there in that pack versus per serving.

[00:25:00] That's the problem.

[00:25:02] Okay, more often than not, I've done a lot of tests with consumers, okay?

[00:25:06] I've shown this pack.

[00:25:07] I'm saying this nutrition information is into the entire pack or per serving.

[00:25:12] They don't know.

[00:25:13] Okay, it is clearly written it is per serving.

[00:25:15] So once we understand that probably our consumption pattern law would change.

[00:25:20] Okay, probably I would avoid, let me say if I got a one liter sugary drink.

[00:25:25] Okay, maybe if you look at a per serving half, calorie value per serving is 450 calories.

[00:25:31] I need to just take 100 ml out of that.

[00:25:33] Okay, maybe if you just take one liter of that, if you consume, then you're into trouble.

[00:25:39] The entire calorie requirement two times over, okay, in that entire day you got it through one bottle of drink.

[00:25:47] So therefore, per serving, understanding that one is very, very critical.

[00:25:51] I think that's a very good example.

[00:25:53] I mean, somebody who suffered from that himself, I am talking about myself here.

[00:25:58] I used to consume a drink years ago, a lot of sugary drinks, sometimes consuming up to two liters an evening.

[00:26:04] And that made me very, very sick.

[00:26:06] And you're absolutely right.

[00:26:07] I had no idea how much sugar I was taking in and whatever else there is in that drink.

[00:26:12] Shashi, thanks for all of this.

[00:26:13] I also wanted to ask you a little bit about the journey of Akshay Kalpa Organic.

[00:26:17] How did the idea come about?

[00:26:19] How did you establish it?

[00:26:20] What is the journey it has undertaken so far?

[00:26:23] The Akshay Kalpa Organic journey has been a crazy journey.

[00:26:28] This is about 27 people from the technology industry.

[00:26:32] Okay, they thought they can leave their job and go and change farming.

[00:26:36] Okay, nothing like that happened.

[00:26:38] Only thing which happened is we changed ourselves.

[00:26:42] So, and in the journey now, okay, for the first nine years, we came six times close to bankruptcy.

[00:26:52] Okay, and we didn't know how to run the business.

[00:26:55] Okay, and the problems in farming is too overwhelming.

[00:27:00] Then we decided it is not a one generation solution.

[00:27:03] Okay, exists.

[00:27:04] So we need to attack the problem one by one.

[00:27:06] Let's start solving cash flow problem for a farmer.

[00:27:09] But Akshay Kalpa technically is a farming company.

[00:27:12] We do a lot of work on soil management.

[00:27:14] Only work we do is soil management.

[00:27:16] Manage the soils in the farm and get the crops grown in a way, okay, where consumers can actually take it very confidently.

[00:27:26] That's what we do.

[00:27:27] You can call it as Akshay Kalpa is the biggest soil management and dung making, manure making company in the country.

[00:27:34] Okay, so over a period of time, we also learned how to deal, okay, with these farming challenges.

[00:27:41] And the products what we, okay, marketing actually is helping to solve cash flow problem for the farmer.

[00:27:49] So while the cash flow problem is solved now, we are able to intervene with a little bit of beekeeping, okay, a little bit of a backhand poultry, a little bit of vegetables, a little bit of greens, a little bit of a banana.

[00:28:01] So that entire farm now is becoming a full package.

[00:28:04] So it's a very comprehensive system we are trying to build.

[00:28:08] So that's a quick brief on Akshay Kalpa.

[00:28:11] So it's a crazy attempt.

[00:28:15] Hopefully that craziness has some value.

[00:28:19] And what lies next for it?

[00:28:21] The problems in the farming space is too deep, Ashraf.

[00:28:25] So what we envision probably has solved one or 2% of it.

[00:28:30] So we need to really go deeper into farming productivity, soil management.

[00:28:35] If you don't do it, farming is gone in India.

[00:28:38] Right now, if you understand, okay, average age of a farmer in India is 55 years.

[00:28:45] All the food what we are eating actually is grown by a person who is age 55 years.

[00:28:50] Country is a young country, 30 years of age.

[00:28:54] No youngster is getting into farming.

[00:28:57] Forget about everybody.

[00:28:58] Me only, no.

[00:28:59] My father, I was born in a farming family.

[00:29:02] My father never wanted me to be a farmer.

[00:29:05] So to your question, okay, is what next?

[00:29:09] Next is getting youngsters back to farming.

[00:29:12] What needs to be done to get young population into farming?

[00:29:16] After their graduation, they can become doctors.

[00:29:18] They can become engineers.

[00:29:19] They can become whatever they want.

[00:29:21] They should also have an aspiration to become a farmer that is not there in the country right now.

[00:29:27] Okay, so that movement we need to start.

[00:29:30] We need to get thinking people, youngsters back into farming.

[00:29:34] Today it is not.

[00:29:35] If you are not able to do anything in life, you become a farmer.

[00:29:39] So that's what it is right now.

[00:29:41] Those are the people who are producing food for us.

[00:29:43] We should be grateful to them.

[00:29:45] But this is not going to work for long.

[00:29:48] So Shashi, here's a question I ask all my guests at the end of the show.

[00:29:52] Why do you do this work?

[00:29:54] It's very selfish thought, okay, Ashraf.

[00:29:57] Okay, to be honest.

[00:29:59] I am worried, okay, to my children, my grandchildren, who will grow the food?

[00:30:04] So very simple, okay, question.

[00:30:08] Will there be people growing food for my children and grandchildren?

[00:30:12] There will not be.

[00:30:13] We can forget farming.

[00:30:14] So that's what we are trying to solve.

[00:30:17] Okay, Nakshakalpa.

[00:30:18] I am trying to solve a problem of growing food for my children, my grandchildren and generations to come.

[00:30:24] So therefore, I believe it's a very selfish thought.

[00:30:28] Okay, but it is solving a bigger problem.

[00:30:31] Shashi, thanks so much for being on the show.

[00:30:33] Thanks, Ashraf.

[00:30:34] And I appreciate this opportunity.

[00:30:37] Thank you.

[00:30:40] All Indians matter.