In this episode, we engage in lively discussions surrounding the world of memes. Memes are loved by all - you, us, and everyone else. That's the crux of it all.
We are thrilled to welcome Kyle Fernandes, the co-founder & CEO of MemeChat, a unique app where you can earn by crafting memes. Our conversation delves into the origins of meme marketing, how certain brands miss the mark in their meme marketing strategies, the secret behind creating viral content, and most crucially - attaining meme virality singularity.
The insights offered through this discussion are so valuable that it almost feels unjust to publish it for FREE.
Show us love!
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00:00:05
Saikat Pyne: Hi. I'm Sekar marketer, creative and media nerd. Welcome to
00:00:10
Saikat Pyne: the you incorporated podcast On this show, I catch up
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Saikat Pyne: with some of the most bad ass founders, business leaders
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Saikat Pyne: and content creators in the whole wide world. Whether you're
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Saikat Pyne: a marketer, creative or a budding founder, if you want
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Saikat Pyne: to build your brand your voice your way, you are
00:00:31
Saikat Pyne: in the right place.
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Saikat Pyne: Join me on the you incorporated podcast and start building
00:00:36
Saikat Pyne: your empire. Here we go.
00:00:49
Saikat Pyne: Please join me in welcoming Kyle Fernandez, the Co-founder and
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Saikat Pyne: CEO of meat. An online money earning app where you
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Saikat Pyne: can create
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Saikat Pyne: viral content and earn money from it. On this episode
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Saikat Pyne: of the U Incorporated podcast, we are going to get
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Saikat Pyne: chatty about all things means
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Saikat Pyne: Welcome to the show. Kyle.
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Kyle Fernandes: Thanks for having me amazing to be here. What's
00:01:16
Saikat Pyne: your reply to people? What? Still calling means me? Me?
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Kyle Fernandes: Just now. I was actually speaking to a person who said,
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Kyle Fernandes: You've done an incredible job at mime chat and that's
00:01:27
Kyle Fernandes: the exact point I knew. I cannot work with this guy.
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Kyle Fernandes: It was the beginning of
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Kyle Fernandes: call at the I switch. I know that meme is
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Kyle Fernandes: obviously for
00:01:36
Saikat Pyne: people who are living under a rock who have no
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Saikat Pyne: idea what memes are. Could you, for the 10 boomer
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Saikat Pyne: listeners on our show explain once and for all what
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Saikat Pyne: a meme is?
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Kyle Fernandes: All right? So imagine an image or a video that
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Kyle Fernandes: you can relate to and makes you laugh, and it
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Kyle Fernandes: makes what's happening around in a comical manner. That's what
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Kyle Fernandes: a meme is. The main element and mean emotion of
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Kyle Fernandes: a meme is relatability. For example. A childhood may are
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Kyle Fernandes: particular type of coding period. They are particular type of
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Kyle Fernandes: cigarette
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Kyle Fernandes: they get you see that and you see a picture
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Kyle Fernandes: of that, and that gives you nostalgia. And people make
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Kyle Fernandes: a sort of image the fact that this is a
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Kyle Fernandes: kind of cigarette that they used to smoke or this
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Kyle Fernandes: is the kind of drink that they used to drink,
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Kyle Fernandes: or or something like that with what is relatable. That's
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Kyle Fernandes: what a meme is. It's a relatable piece of content, right,
00:02:26
Kyle Fernandes: and that is when you can when when a person,
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Kyle Fernandes: let's say, or even a and that is why, as
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Kyle Fernandes: a movie, it is not just for and millennials it
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Kyle Fernandes: is for old people as well But the problem is
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Kyle Fernandes: that old people play a quick old people content creator.
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Kyle Fernandes: So if you have people who are content creators for
00:02:41
Kyle Fernandes: the older generation, right
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Kyle Fernandes: then they'll also be interested in memes because now they'll
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Kyle Fernandes: see memes that that they can relate to. It's all
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Kyle Fernandes: about relatability. It's all about that image of video that
00:02:49
Saikat Pyne: you know you could relate. How have we taken something
00:02:51
Saikat Pyne: so pure and made it into a marketing tool? How
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Saikat Pyne: did meme marketing really start? Right?
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Kyle Fernandes: There are the traditional advertising methods that you've seen a
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Kyle Fernandes: TV ad where let's say, a company spends a lot
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Kyle Fernandes: of money, sometimes goes multiple calls to produce a video
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Kyle Fernandes: that they want to present
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Kyle Fernandes: on television or a YouTube ad or something like that.
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Kyle Fernandes: It may be comical or maybe entertaining, but when a
00:03:13
Kyle Fernandes: person sees a meme right when, let's say you or I,
00:03:17
Kyle Fernandes: we see a meme on a brand.
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Kyle Fernandes: The first thing that we get in our mind that
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Kyle Fernandes: this is not an ad, it is something that somebody
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Kyle Fernandes: has created, and it looks genuine. The first point of
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Kyle Fernandes: view that comes to a person who's looking at a
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Kyle Fernandes: branded meme. Let's say a meme, let's say on some
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Kyle Fernandes: sort of far lay biscuits or some B to CDC brand, right?
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Kyle Fernandes: The first thing that comes to mind this is organic, right?
00:03:42
Kyle Fernandes: That one thing is also relatable now.
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Kyle Fernandes: And second, it gives you that trust K R looks
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Kyle Fernandes: at me there. Now it's coming to a point where
00:03:51
Kyle Fernandes: some people are going excessive with me marketing and now
00:03:53
Kyle Fernandes: users understanding these things are period. They're realising that, but
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Kyle Fernandes: the more genuine and organic it it's like a review
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Kyle Fernandes: coming from
00:04:02
Kyle Fernandes: a user, and it's comical and relatable now so that
00:04:05
Kyle Fernandes: you can actually engage with it. The X
00:04:07
Saikat Pyne: factor for means is that people automatically relate it with authenticity,
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Saikat Pyne: and when marketing or any piece of content comes off
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Saikat Pyne: as authentic people lower their safeguards for.
00:04:25
Saikat Pyne: And that is how you convert somebody. Do you think today,
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Saikat Pyne: with every other brand jumping onto the meme marketing bandwagon
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Saikat Pyne: that the effectiveness of meme marketing has somewhat diminished because
00:04:39
Saikat Pyne: of its overuse, at least by B two C brands,
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Kyle Fernandes: I completely agree on this one statement. Brands try to
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Kyle Fernandes: in house hire people 34 people,
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Kyle Fernandes: sometimes even 56 people to create memes for them,
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Kyle Fernandes: right and to post on their social media.
00:04:59
Kyle Fernandes: Now it when they go. Three ideas. After that, there's
00:05:03
Kyle Fernandes: so much of comedy a person can do. You can
00:05:05
Kyle Fernandes: hire comics and stuff like that. Of course you can
00:05:07
Kyle Fernandes: go ahead with that. But the thing is, when anybody
00:05:09
Kyle Fernandes: thinks of a meme, you get these 12 good ideas.
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Kyle Fernandes: But you can't do more than that after a point.
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Kyle Fernandes: If you haven't seen people make and this content becomes repetitive,
00:05:17
Kyle Fernandes: you have a broad mix of ideas, and that is
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Kyle Fernandes: what we try to crack at meme chat. Having hundreds
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Kyle Fernandes: of thousands of users create the content for these brands
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Kyle Fernandes: because now you have a mix of ideas. Now you
00:05:30
Kyle Fernandes: have ideas knowing you have good content coming in. You
00:05:33
Kyle Fernandes: have bad content. Coming in is that is not too good.
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Kyle Fernandes: But then again, then it's very easy to sort and
00:05:38
Kyle Fernandes: figure it out. But then there's a mix of ideas,
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Kyle Fernandes: and that doesn't get stale
00:05:42
Kyle Fernandes: with two or three minds working at it effectively, it
00:05:44
Kyle Fernandes: gets stale after a point of time. So what
00:05:47
Saikat Pyne: has happened if I understand it correctly, Kyle is we
00:05:50
Saikat Pyne: have created an assembly line for memes in In-house marketing teams,
00:05:56
Saikat Pyne: where there's somebody coming up with a copy or an
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Saikat Pyne: idea for a meme and a designer churning it out
00:06:01
Saikat Pyne: when that becomes a day job and when you're trying
00:06:04
Saikat Pyne: to literally source as much novelty as the entire Internet
00:06:09
Saikat Pyne: population put together quite naturally, one person, even if you're
00:06:14
Saikat Pyne: a creative genius, you're going to run out of ideas, right?
00:06:16
Saikat Pyne: And then that novelty factors we itself. Do you see
00:06:21
Saikat Pyne: any brand doing me marketing extremely on point?
00:06:25
Kyle Fernandes: You can't force content out of people. There's a saturation
00:06:28
Kyle Fernandes: point that people reach.
00:06:30
Kyle Fernandes: What I've seen is Durex Zama. They have a few
00:06:34
Kyle Fernandes: very good creative people who are not churning out too
00:06:36
Kyle Fernandes: much of content, but they churn out few content but
00:06:39
Kyle Fernandes: good content. I think that is a very good strategy
00:06:42
Kyle Fernandes: for a brat who's building their personal social media, or
00:06:45
Kyle Fernandes: instagram or Facebook or whatever it may be right
00:06:48
Kyle Fernandes: now. If you're creating a campaign now, now this is
00:06:50
Kyle Fernandes: where the problem happens. A brand comes up with a
00:06:52
Kyle Fernandes: campaign and they want me on it and they want
00:06:54
Kyle Fernandes: meme marketing for it, and they want that content they
00:06:57
Kyle Fernandes: want hundreds of Memes, poster or hundreds of channels, right?
00:07:01
Kyle Fernandes: That's what they want. Now that becomes a task. How
00:07:05
Kyle Fernandes: much can someone create? How much can five people create
00:07:07
Kyle Fernandes: on something that becomes a tough task? I think the
00:07:09
Kyle Fernandes: right way to go about it for a brand who
00:07:11
Kyle Fernandes: does not have too much money to spend,
00:07:14
Kyle Fernandes: do it slow and do it. Don't spend too much.
00:07:18
Kyle Fernandes: And don't over hire hire just 12 really good people
00:07:21
Kyle Fernandes: who turn out, Let's say one
00:07:23
Kyle Fernandes: meme a day for your social media. Eventually, one may
00:07:27
Kyle Fernandes: just go really viral as well, right? You'll probably get
00:07:30
Kyle Fernandes: the reason that you're looking for. But don't be excessive
00:07:33
Kyle Fernandes: with it when it comes to spending in terms of
00:07:36
Kyle Fernandes: a campaign. If you're even doing the campaign right and
00:07:38
Kyle Fernandes: you're spending for the campaign, you need to make sure
00:07:40
Kyle Fernandes: that hundreds of minds
00:07:43
Kyle Fernandes: are making that meme. You have basically 12 memes per
00:07:47
Kyle Fernandes: new creator. If you want 1000 memes, then over 500
00:07:50
Kyle Fernandes: creators and 10 memes, at least 5000 creators. So that
00:07:52
Kyle Fernandes: is how it should work because after two memes, the
00:07:55
Kyle Fernandes: guy gets because he doesn't even want me on that topic.
00:07:58
Kyle Fernandes: He doesn't even want to make the meme on that topic.
00:08:00
Kyle Fernandes: He's forced to make the the topic because he's gonna
00:08:02
Kyle Fernandes: get paid.
00:08:03
Saikat Pyne: I've worked in multiple media and marketing teams across sectors,
00:08:08
Saikat Pyne: and there's this greed for traction that any marketer would
00:08:12
Saikat Pyne: relate to, whether they are on the agency side, whether
00:08:15
Saikat Pyne: they are on the brand side. They'll say, Boss, if
00:08:18
Saikat Pyne: I can produce one meme and it gets X average traction,
00:08:23
Saikat Pyne: it's like buying multiple lottery tickets. You increase your chances
00:08:26
Saikat Pyne: of winning the jackpot. That's the presumption that people are
00:08:29
Saikat Pyne: going in with constant. So if I create 10 pieces
00:08:31
Saikat Pyne: of content, I'm Tenex my chances of going viral. What
00:08:35
Saikat Pyne: do you say to those people who are trying to
00:08:39
Saikat Pyne: root force their way to viral
00:08:41
Kyle Fernandes: it? This is a point I agree with. What I
00:08:44
Kyle Fernandes: am saying is that if you are having let's say
00:08:47
Kyle Fernandes: you want 100 memes and you want one meme to
00:08:49
Kyle Fernandes: go viral,
00:08:50
Kyle Fernandes: right when viral are better. If you have more creators,
00:08:53
Kyle Fernandes: do that rather than two creators do that
00:08:56
Kyle Fernandes: and yes, it works. If you are good, forcing your
00:08:59
Kyle Fernandes: way to viral by getting 100 million data and getting
00:09:01
Kyle Fernandes: them distributed.
00:09:03
Kyle Fernandes: It may come not even saying it will come because
00:09:05
Kyle Fernandes: it might be on the 101st meme that actually went viral.
00:09:07
Kyle Fernandes: And you just demand it for 100. It doesn't work
00:09:09
Kyle Fernandes: like every meme is gonna get viral. But if the
00:09:13
Kyle Fernandes: content is good, you're having people work on it. And
00:09:15
Kyle Fernandes: you there's a broader spectrum of content coming in. That
00:09:19
Kyle Fernandes: is when, OK, we know it's gonna work. Not for sure,
00:09:21
Kyle Fernandes: but the chances are much higher.
00:09:23
Kyle Fernandes: But yeah, I think I've seen brands do it. And
00:09:26
Kyle Fernandes: it's worked for brands that the thing of getting hundreds
00:09:29
Kyle Fernandes: and thousands of memes created and even if one to work,
00:09:32
Kyle Fernandes: they have met the target because 12 memes get so
00:09:35
Kyle Fernandes: much of reach and engagement that covers the campaign, cause
00:09:39
Kyle Fernandes: the campaign that they they were looking for cover gets
00:09:42
Kyle Fernandes: covered in one or two posts in total,
00:09:44
Saikat Pyne: so one or two memes that go viral pays for
00:09:47
Saikat Pyne: the entire campaign. So to say, one
00:09:49
Kyle Fernandes: very interesting angle to this is if the core premise
00:09:54
Kyle Fernandes: of the brand becomes trending. One of our campaigns made
00:09:57
Kyle Fernandes: up right
00:09:59
Kyle Fernandes: now Mirzapur in itself became a trending topic.
00:10:03
Kyle Fernandes: So now every meme that was made on Zaur and
00:10:06
Kyle Fernandes: Shared got high engage because the topic itself became friends.
00:10:10
Kyle Fernandes: And that is, you reach meme viral
00:10:12
Saikat Pyne: singularity. I'm going to use that phrase meme viral singularity
00:10:16
Saikat Pyne: That's poetic
00:10:16
Kyle Fernandes: singularities in E. I is like, When the e I
00:10:18
Kyle Fernandes: reaches God like potential, right? So it's like you reach
00:10:22
Kyle Fernandes: meme variety singularity where essentially
00:10:25
Kyle Fernandes: the brand has become viral. For example, there was a
00:10:28
Kyle Fernandes: trend on the J. C B K. It was just
00:10:30
Kyle Fernandes: a thing on the A crane pitches of cranes digging
00:10:34
Kyle Fernandes: up mud from the ground
00:10:36
Kyle Fernandes: and that became a viral. The brand itself became viral.
00:10:39
Kyle Fernandes: Let's do that. And once that happens, anything made on
00:10:42
Kyle Fernandes: that brand becomes viral. And at that point you don't
00:10:45
Kyle Fernandes: need to pay creators to make content for you. People
00:10:48
Kyle Fernandes: will automatically make content for you because they think it
00:10:51
Kyle Fernandes: will get them rich and get them. Engagement creators also
00:10:54
Kyle Fernandes: want reach and engagement. If you are the topic to
00:10:56
Kyle Fernandes: make memes or to get regional engagement, they will make
00:10:58
Kyle Fernandes: memes on you,
00:10:59
Kyle Fernandes: for example, now marvel and in the Marvel Series and
00:11:03
Kyle Fernandes: the Avengers series. They don't need to spend too much
00:11:05
Kyle Fernandes: on marketing because they know these meme creators are going
00:11:07
Kyle Fernandes: to make memes on their shows. And then it is
00:11:09
Kyle Fernandes: gonna happen because they have built the brand like that.
00:11:13
Kyle Fernandes: I could build a brand like that is just It
00:11:16
Kyle Fernandes: takes a really good product for
00:11:17
Saikat Pyne: somebody like you
00:11:19
Saikat Pyne: who has witnessed so many meme trends come and go.
00:11:22
Saikat Pyne: What comes first, the chicken or the egg? What comes first,
00:11:26
Saikat Pyne: a specific topic and anything on that topic goes viral.
00:11:29
Saikat Pyne: Or does it start with a meme? And that meme
00:11:32
Saikat Pyne: sort of makes the topic viral. What comes first? In
00:11:34
Saikat Pyne: most cases,
00:11:35
Kyle Fernandes: I'll be honest with you. It's actually both have come first.
00:11:38
Kyle Fernandes: We have rote forced our way to make something viral right,
00:11:42
Kyle Fernandes: which we have paid.
00:11:44
Kyle Fernandes: And in some places where the content itself is so,
00:11:47
Kyle Fernandes: it goes viral in most cases nowadays, because of so
00:11:51
Kyle Fernandes: much of liquidity and money that people have, people are
00:11:54
Kyle Fernandes: paying to get that done.
00:11:57
Kyle Fernandes: When there was no money transactions happening, for example, let's
00:12:01
Kyle Fernandes: say you're a creator, right, and you're making you generally
00:12:03
Kyle Fernandes: make memes and you get paid regularly on a daily basis.
00:12:06
Kyle Fernandes: Now you see a very interesting biscuit. Come out. You
00:12:08
Kyle Fernandes: will not make a meme on that biscuit even though
00:12:10
Kyle Fernandes: you like it and want to make a meme on it. Reasonably.
00:12:12
Kyle Fernandes: You would rather take money to me that the dynamics
00:12:15
Kyle Fernandes: of it has changed quite a bit. Now you want money?
00:12:18
Kyle Fernandes: It's so much so that Have you seen reels and
00:12:21
Kyle Fernandes: songs within reels? Yeah. Yeah. People won't even use a
00:12:24
Kyle Fernandes: particular song because they say that if I use a song,
00:12:27
Kyle Fernandes: I'd rather be paid
00:12:29
Kyle Fernandes: because I don't want to do it for free. And
00:12:30
Kyle Fernandes: that is where Now it's changing that. Now you have
00:12:32
Kyle Fernandes: to pay it to get it done. Earlier, you didn't
00:12:34
Kyle Fernandes: have to pay it as much pay as much to
00:12:36
Kyle Fernandes: get it done because people will pick it up because
00:12:38
Kyle Fernandes: content was lacking and money was lacking in the system.
00:12:40
Kyle Fernandes: All there's money in the system, and the creators are
00:12:42
Kyle Fernandes: expecting to get paid. So that's how the dynamic essentially works.
00:12:46
Kyle Fernandes: Can
00:12:47
Saikat Pyne: you engineer viral
00:12:48
Kyle Fernandes: Kyle? Yes, you can,
00:12:50
Kyle Fernandes: but it has to be very planned out and tell
00:12:52
Kyle Fernandes: you how this works. So, for example, there was this
00:12:54
Kyle Fernandes: paragliding guy that that video that came? Yeah, Yeah, It
00:12:57
Kyle Fernandes: came on one of our WhatsApp groups and it was
00:13:00
Kyle Fernandes: like he had at that time, if it was very right.
00:13:04
Kyle Fernandes: So it was like on this video we had up there.
00:13:08
Kyle Fernandes: I remember there was one of our guys. Name was Ankush.
00:13:12
Kyle Fernandes: He follow the video
00:13:14
Kyle Fernandes: and he was like, Were out there.
00:13:17
Kyle Fernandes: And what happened was the first five memes that were
00:13:22
Kyle Fernandes: made on that friend.
00:13:24
Kyle Fernandes: First of the original video went up The next five
00:13:27
Kyle Fernandes: memes that are made of that trend was so good,
00:13:30
Kyle Fernandes: right that people began sharing it. And that's how we
00:13:33
Kyle Fernandes: realised that viral is created. You have a topic. You
00:13:36
Kyle Fernandes: create really good few piece of good few pieces of content.
00:13:42
Kyle Fernandes: Force them if that is being shared and picked up.
00:13:45
Kyle Fernandes: Put you're onto a trend, and then you get content
00:13:48
Kyle Fernandes: blaster out in bulk. Good content. It can be engineered
00:13:52
Kyle Fernandes: in a way, but again,
00:13:54
Kyle Fernandes: I cannot just take a glass and really just make
00:13:59
Kyle Fernandes: it viral because it's just a class. You have to
00:14:02
Kyle Fernandes: have good content around it to make it right. If
00:14:04
Kyle Fernandes: it's not good content, it's one of the If you
00:14:07
Kyle Fernandes: want to brute force your way to viral and engineer viral,
00:14:10
Kyle Fernandes: you can only do it if it's good content, you
00:14:12
Kyle Fernandes: cannot do it if
00:14:13
Saikat Pyne: you can't make chicken curry without chicken. Basically right?
00:14:16
Kyle Fernandes: Exactly. Uh, viral engineer cuts up to as long as
00:14:19
Kyle Fernandes: genuinely funny.
00:14:21
Kyle Fernandes: You can't. You cannot put comedy into something that does
00:14:23
Kyle Fernandes: not have comedy. You can't put something that's you can't
00:14:25
Kyle Fernandes: put fun into something that's not fun. Unexpected re engineer
00:14:29
Kyle Fernandes: versus Kay Engineer can be
00:14:32
Kyle Fernandes: It doesn't work right?
00:14:33
Saikat Pyne: Let's dig a bit deep into viral memes. Kyle, What
00:14:38
Saikat Pyne: exactly is the anatomy of a viral meme? As somebody
00:14:41
Saikat Pyne: who's running the diagnostic on a meme to see if
00:14:43
Saikat Pyne: this has potential to go viral, what are
00:14:47
Saikat Pyne: couple of things that anybody can look out for when
00:14:50
Saikat Pyne: they see something come up that this has the potential
00:14:54
Saikat Pyne: to go viral?
00:14:55
Kyle Fernandes: It's basically wacky relatability packy, funny and relatable. If you
00:15:00
Kyle Fernandes: have all these three components to it right and not
00:15:03
Kyle Fernandes: just shoot us a joke funny, just be like really
00:15:05
Kyle Fernandes: batty Funny that is actually your recipe for viral.
00:15:09
Kyle Fernandes: If it's funny,
00:15:10
Saikat Pyne: wacky, Funny is relatable
00:15:12
Kyle Fernandes: is like, really wacky for and they are OK. Fuck.
00:15:16
Kyle Fernandes: Like this is this is out of the box. Funny
00:15:18
Kyle Fernandes: because they we laughing at it and later because they
00:15:20
Kyle Fernandes: can understand
00:15:21
Saikat Pyne: about it. Does this change based on the T G?
00:15:24
Saikat Pyne: The conditions you gave me it
00:15:25
Kyle Fernandes: it changes. This is only for I'll be honest with you.
00:15:28
Kyle Fernandes: I'm I'm very frank about this, right?
00:15:37
Kyle Fernandes: And I personally don't know. But I'll be honest with you.
00:15:40
Kyle Fernandes: I kind of know also Now that I think about
00:15:42
Kyle Fernandes: it
00:15:47
Kyle Fernandes: is near the WhatsApp for intellectual, Everybody gets it
00:15:51
Kyle Fernandes: and that becomes viral. In that case,
00:15:54
Saikat Pyne: misinformation.
00:15:55
Kyle Fernandes: Basically, Yeah. Misinformation. Misinformation is very powerful with these guys
00:16:02
Kyle Fernandes: and become viral. I've seen so many things just go
00:16:04
Kyle Fernandes: viral and jets and other guys were laughing about it.
00:16:07
Kyle Fernandes: We are the people who are laughing about it.
00:16:10
Kyle Fernandes: But when you think about it from the perspective of
00:16:12
Kyle Fernandes: the fact that you have this very weird shouldn't you
00:16:14
Kyle Fernandes: tell your mom? Please don't share it. You are embarrassing
00:16:16
Kyle Fernandes: yourself by sharing it because you know it's the situation, right?
00:16:20
Kyle Fernandes: And you will realise that that everybody sharing it is
00:16:22
Kyle Fernandes: gone super violent
00:16:24
Kyle Fernandes: and you don't know how, but that I I I
00:16:25
Kyle Fernandes: think that is one very key and crucial things that
00:16:30
Kyle Fernandes: I've noticed with boomers right
00:16:34
Kyle Fernandes: now. But
00:16:35
Saikat Pyne: I doubt if a brand would want to run a
00:16:38
Saikat Pyne: misinformation campaign just to target boomers. That's highly unlikely, you know?
00:16:42
Kyle Fernandes: But now that I thought about it and people to
00:16:44
Kyle Fernandes: actually try, I don't know
00:16:46
Saikat Pyne: who knows? You throw in some buzzwords who knows you
00:16:49
Saikat Pyne: will actually see uncles forward these memes on WhatsApp.
00:16:52
Kyle Fernandes: I I actually have a case study, but it has
00:16:54
Kyle Fernandes: actually worked for us. This thing? Yeah, through it. And
00:16:58
Kyle Fernandes: it worked. Variety. This variety came not through Facebook or Instagram.
00:17:01
Kyle Fernandes: It came through WhatsApp
00:17:03
Kyle Fernandes: and we gave I think at that in the day
00:17:05
Kyle Fernandes: we get 100 downloads
00:17:08
Kyle Fernandes: in a day. Wow.
00:17:10
Kyle Fernandes: So we have to.
00:17:12
Saikat Pyne: But do certain sectors have more affinity to me? Like
00:17:15
Saikat Pyne: B to B is not very into me marketing they
00:17:18
Saikat Pyne: they would want, like, slightly more serious conversation. So to say,
00:17:22
Saikat Pyne: who are your clients? Primarily
00:17:24
Kyle Fernandes: people who want distribution are our clients, right? People who
00:17:27
Kyle Fernandes: want large scale distribution
00:17:30
Kyle Fernandes: are our clients who want to reach out to millions
00:17:33
Kyle Fernandes: of people. So again, that is B to CDC Focus,
00:17:36
Kyle Fernandes: and they would want creators to use their product to
00:17:39
Kyle Fernandes: make memes for them. Get that memes right? But let's
00:17:42
Kyle Fernandes: say for B to B thing right
00:17:45
Kyle Fernandes: it is. And I've seen it from my perspective because
00:17:47
Kyle Fernandes: I even though I'm a B two c facing product,
00:17:50
Kyle Fernandes: I also have a B two B channel where I'm
00:17:52
Kyle Fernandes: making money through my B to B channel, Right. Basically
00:17:55
Kyle Fernandes: getting AGS on board
00:17:57
Kyle Fernandes: and what works with them is my sort of newsletters
00:18:00
Kyle Fernandes: where I put memes in those newsletters, I make it fun,
00:18:02
Kyle Fernandes: and I make it interesting. My festival greetings are memes,
00:18:05
Kyle Fernandes: so if you're not creating it for distribution per se,
00:18:08
Kyle Fernandes: you're creating it for the niche audience that you talk
00:18:10
Kyle Fernandes: to or you engage with. You create memes of those,
00:18:13
Kyle Fernandes: so I so B two p can also work with
00:18:15
Kyle Fernandes: memes and get memes done
00:18:16
Kyle Fernandes: if they're doing it for their small niche. But primarily
00:18:19
Kyle Fernandes: where a lot of money is to be made is
00:18:22
Kyle Fernandes: where for B to C to B to B to
00:18:24
Kyle Fernandes: C brands pay because they are essentially the ones who
00:18:27
Kyle Fernandes: are spending a lot of money,
00:18:30
Saikat Pyne: and how has the creator landscape changed because my understanding
00:18:34
Saikat Pyne: of memes is that it started as u G. C. Content, right?
00:18:38
Saikat Pyne: And now it's I hate to use the word hijacked
00:18:42
Saikat Pyne: in some ways by brands that are streamlining the content
00:18:45
Saikat Pyne: creation journey of memes also. So how has the creative
00:18:48
Saikat Pyne: landscape changed from the individual creator? Somebody who's just doing
00:18:52
Saikat Pyne: it for fun to this slightly more sort of industrial
00:18:55
Saikat Pyne: lineup setup of meme creation.
00:18:59
Kyle Fernandes: See, I'll be honest with you to industrial while they
00:19:02
Kyle Fernandes: have come here. I mean Joe, but loves brands and
00:19:07
Kyle Fernandes: a higher career. But meals? You have people like that,
00:19:10
Kyle Fernandes: but it's not a very big number of people, you know.
00:19:11
Kyle Fernandes: People are still making meals for two reasons. Right? One
00:19:15
Kyle Fernandes: is they are seen as a money making potential somewhere,
00:19:18
Kyle Fernandes: right when you're building a following second, is that
00:19:21
Kyle Fernandes: the same way a person makes tiktok videos or videos
00:19:24
Kyle Fernandes: for outreach and to get famous? That's what me was
00:19:27
Kyle Fernandes: also doing it for. To get to make people laugh,
00:19:29
Kyle Fernandes: to get known, get recognition similarly, why people play sort
00:19:33
Kyle Fernandes: of games and stuff like that. They personally just wanted
00:19:35
Kyle Fernandes: to do it for the recognition and the favour or
00:19:37
Kyle Fernandes: whatever that may be. And the second
00:19:42
Kyle Fernandes: is not the main priority. That is the thing that
00:19:45
Kyle Fernandes: that I have noticed because, for example, at me, we
00:19:49
Kyle Fernandes: are not giving people so much of money that they
00:19:51
Kyle Fernandes: can make a life lived up out of it as
00:19:53
Kyle Fernandes: of yet because we also have a brand flow and
00:19:55
Kyle Fernandes: a deal flow where we distribute the money to these creators, right?
00:20:00
Kyle Fernandes: So that is a hobby and sport
00:20:03
Kyle Fernandes: right hobby is because they're getting some sort of recognition.
00:20:06
Kyle Fernandes: It's some sort of gratification, right? The gratification is just
00:20:09
Kyle Fernandes: forced is the engagement recognition, and then is the money.
00:20:14
Kyle Fernandes: So it's not too much metalized as yet. It's not.
00:20:17
Kyle Fernandes: If you have these particular content, creators are only making
00:20:21
Kyle Fernandes: content for these brands, and everybody's just making content for
00:20:24
Kyle Fernandes: these brands. You have a few people doing that, but
00:20:27
Kyle Fernandes: it's not the bulk of it. It's it is just
00:20:30
Kyle Fernandes: a top 1% that earn actually
00:20:32
Kyle Fernandes: area was similar for any other concentration platform. The people
00:20:36
Kyle Fernandes: who earn is much less compared to the other who
00:20:38
Kyle Fernandes: aspired greats. What
00:20:40
Saikat Pyne: does this mean for the future of me creation? Do
00:20:44
Saikat Pyne: you see the creative aspect of it primarily to come
00:20:47
Saikat Pyne: from its U G C roots and then brands blowing
00:20:52
Saikat Pyne: it up the way they have, where somebody lights the
00:20:54
Saikat Pyne: fire and somebody ensures that the fire rises on
00:20:59
Saikat Pyne: over time, you are going to see more monetization opportunities
00:21:03
Saikat Pyne: for memes and meme creators.
00:21:05
Kyle Fernandes: See, over time when there's more liquidity in the market,
00:21:07
Kyle Fernandes: you will see more, more as an opportunities for sure.
00:21:09
Kyle Fernandes: But a creator to get mainstream memes don not face
00:21:13
Kyle Fernandes: value you can to a persons space. In most cases,
00:21:16
Kyle Fernandes: you can't associate to a persons space. You probably got
00:21:18
Kyle Fernandes: a space called the high court.
00:21:20
Kyle Fernandes: Yeah, yeah, yeah, He consistently made good content. Every post
00:21:24
Kyle Fernandes: was funny. He got recognition. You heard of him because
00:21:27
Kyle Fernandes: consistently is post right
00:21:31
Kyle Fernandes: consistently. If your posts are good consistently, if you are
00:21:35
Kyle Fernandes: creating good content, you will get that recognition, right? You're
00:21:38
Kyle Fernandes: not gonna get that recognition if one content goes by
00:21:40
Kyle Fernandes: a lot of right. But that is something that's very
00:21:44
Kyle Fernandes: important to understand.
00:21:45
Kyle Fernandes: And the thing is, once you start getting getting that
00:21:49
Kyle Fernandes: good content regularly out,
00:21:52
Kyle Fernandes: people will start following you people look up to you,
00:21:54
Kyle Fernandes: but they want to see more of that content. And
00:21:56
Kyle Fernandes: what is happening now is when brands want so so
00:21:59
Kyle Fernandes: many memes, right as they want sort of content for this.
00:22:04
Kyle Fernandes: You are having a mix of creators creating memes or
00:22:07
Kyle Fernandes: a topic. So even the general audience millions of people
00:22:10
Kyle Fernandes: who are there to consume that content
00:22:13
Kyle Fernandes: cannot associate that trend to one point because they cannot
00:22:16
Kyle Fernandes: associate it to one person. You can't create card for
00:22:19
Kyle Fernandes: the career. And yeah, and I see that as and
00:22:21
Kyle Fernandes: when see, memes is something brands will a off and
00:22:25
Kyle Fernandes: those who aren't also a because eventually what they want
00:22:28
Kyle Fernandes: to see is they want to reach out to the
00:22:31
Kyle Fernandes: Chevy millennial order. And for that they will need to
00:22:33
Kyle Fernandes: do memes right.
00:22:35
Kyle Fernandes: But they can't be dependent on 56, 14 creators. They
00:22:37
Kyle Fernandes: have to be dependent on more, so there will be
00:22:39
Kyle Fernandes: more division opportunity. But the thinkers will be distributed
00:22:42
Kyle Fernandes: right. That money becomes concentrated in any industry. For example, right,
00:22:47
Kyle Fernandes: if money is gonna be concentrated, let's say, for one YouTube,
00:22:50
Kyle Fernandes: Mr Based, if you have to get all the brand deals,
00:22:52
Kyle Fernandes: one is going to be very expensive brand deals right
00:22:55
Kyle Fernandes: to
00:22:56
Kyle Fernandes: is that it's only Mr Beast that gets it right.
00:22:59
Kyle Fernandes: Nobody else very view was at that, but means because
00:23:04
Kyle Fernandes: they have no face value because they have. It's so
00:23:05
Kyle Fernandes: much more distributed,
00:23:08
Kyle Fernandes: so you will earn as much unless you can consistently
00:23:11
Kyle Fernandes: make good for it. But
00:23:12
Saikat Pyne: do you think, unlike, let's say, YouTube or even tiktok
00:23:16
Saikat Pyne: and these sorts of platforms? Because memes don't have face
00:23:19
Saikat Pyne: value that especially on the Indian Internet and in the
00:23:22
Saikat Pyne: emerging economies, we have a huge issue of plagiarism. I
00:23:26
Saikat Pyne: think we already have that. But do you see that
00:23:28
Saikat Pyne: issue blowing up in the coming months?
00:23:32
Kyle Fernandes: See, there's an issue of plagiarism, but the only person
00:23:34
Kyle Fernandes: who faces that issue is the creator, because the viewers
00:23:37
Kyle Fernandes: don't care. I see so many pic me pages copying
00:23:39
Kyle Fernandes: people's content. I've seen pick me pages, copyrighted content as
00:23:44
Kyle Fernandes: well of smaller, and that is a good thing. Plagiarism
00:23:48
Kyle Fernandes: is for the creator. The creator feels bad when it's plagiarising.
00:23:50
Kyle Fernandes: Let's say a big page posted on that page,
00:23:54
Kyle Fernandes: and they see that
00:23:56
Kyle Fernandes: get millions of likes and millions of views over there,
00:24:00
Kyle Fernandes: and his quartet just got let's say 1000 2000 lives, right?
00:24:04
Kyle Fernandes: It's a bit over there, but because there's no face value,
00:24:07
Kyle Fernandes: that is a problem that will exist. Do
00:24:09
Saikat Pyne: you think this will impact the future of meme creation
00:24:11
Saikat Pyne: in some ways? Given that there is no face value,
00:24:14
Saikat Pyne: small creators might feel discouraged when they see such acts
00:24:18
Saikat Pyne: of plagiarism. Ha have that possibility. Luck around the corner?
00:24:22
Kyle Fernandes: No, it's for example. Let's say a person likes to
00:24:25
Kyle Fernandes: think right.
00:24:27
Kyle Fernandes: The person continue to sing, probably with his 23 friends
00:24:32
Kyle Fernandes: in front of his 23 friends or your in front
00:24:34
Kyle Fernandes: of his family or his friends. But they won't go
00:24:37
Kyle Fernandes: on these public shows or whatever it may be, but
00:24:39
Kyle Fernandes: they will still sing right. And as long as you
00:24:41
Kyle Fernandes: can still create a content or that eventually finds its
00:24:45
Kyle Fernandes: way to the broad audience, so it's not going to
00:24:48
Kyle Fernandes: die down. The good theatres are not going to say, OK,
00:24:51
Kyle Fernandes: I I make content comedy. You keep the as all
00:24:55
Kyle Fernandes: it doesn't look that What
00:24:56
Saikat Pyne: do you think about the future of memes?
00:24:58
Kyle Fernandes: We are bound by technology. Memes is about luckiness, funny
00:25:01
Kyle Fernandes: and relatability.
00:25:03
Kyle Fernandes: Whatever
00:25:04
Kyle Fernandes: the new thing that technology brings to us that merged
00:25:07
Kyle Fernandes: with vacuous rent ability and comedy. That is the new
00:25:11
Kyle Fernandes: meme that may be short videos, long video on memes.
00:25:14
Kyle Fernandes: I don't know. The fact is that we are limited
00:25:16
Kyle Fernandes: by technology as we use technology. Well, we will see
00:25:20
Kyle Fernandes: memes of various formats.
00:25:21
Saikat Pyne: And on that note, it's a wrap.
00:25:24
Saikat Pyne: Thank you so much for being on the podcast. Kyle,
00:25:27
Saikat Pyne: thanks so much for having guys please tune in next
00:25:31
Saikat Pyne: week for the next episode of the unincorporated podcast. See ya.
00:25:41
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00:25:46
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