On this episode, we are hosting Arman Sood, the Co-Founder of Sleepy Owl Coffee, a pioneer in the cold brew coffee segment in India. We learn about the importance of catchy brand names and how the founders of Sleepy Owl took inspiration from Blue Bottle's packaging.
We also discuss the power of targeted and specific marketing to attract the right consumers with a limited budget. We explore the company's evolution in branding, logo, and mascots, and how offline retail marketing can be both expensive and crucial to reaching the right consumers. Plus, we get an inside look at how Sleepy Owl started as an online-only business, its performance marketing strategy, and its expansion into the offline world.
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Speaker 1: It's rare that you have the chance to sit with
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Speaker 1: someone
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Speaker 1: who held something
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Speaker 1: that you laugh so dearly.
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Speaker 1: Today. I had the opportunity to sit with her mano
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Speaker 1: the co-founder of sleepy old coffee,
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Speaker 1: a leading coffee brand that sells cold brew packs, hot
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Speaker 1: brew bags ready to drink, cold coffee, premium instant coffee
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Speaker 1: and a whole range of other march
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Speaker 1: when a customer places an order with sleepy owl. It
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Speaker 1: is a man's team that ensures that the best quality
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Speaker 1: coffee is packaged and delivered to them on time.
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Speaker 1: On this week's episode, we chat with our man about
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Speaker 1: the origin story of the sleepy old brand Let's Dive in.
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Speaker 1: Hello, Hello, Welcome to the U Incorporated podcast with me,
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Speaker 1: your friendly neighbourhood part-time creator and full time media nerd.
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Speaker 1: On this show, I catch up with some of the
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Speaker 1: most bad ass founders, media, Mavericks and indie hackers in
00:01:05
Speaker 1: the whole wide world, and we have some truly insightful
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Speaker 1: chats on startups, media and influence, the stuff that gets
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Speaker 1: left out of the media headlines.
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Speaker 1: Whether you're in a corporate, a startup, you own a
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Speaker 1: legacy brand, a scrappy side hustle or you're only a student.
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Speaker 1: If you are keen to build your brand your voice
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Speaker 1: your way. You're in the right place. Here we go.
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Speaker 1: Let's get straight to it. How the name Sleepy Owl.
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Speaker 1: I'm sure not too many brands would want to be
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Speaker 1: called sleepy, energetic, hyped up. Those are the sorts of
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Speaker 1: names that any F MC G brand would want to
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Speaker 1: come up
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Speaker 2: with, I think cycle going back to when we came
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Speaker 2: up with the idea of entering the coffee business and
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Speaker 2: to start a venture in the world of coffee.
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Speaker 2: Uh, or let's say, in the world of consumer brands
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Speaker 2: or F MC G, we knew from that moment on
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Speaker 2: that having a catchy name, a quirky name, a memorable
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Speaker 2: name will go a very long way in getting the
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Speaker 2: consumer's attention. So we were sure that, yeah, a consumers
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Speaker 2: need to be aware of who you are. Remember, you
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Speaker 2: are just at least get their attention. And that is
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Speaker 2: why we said OK, the name needs to be something
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Speaker 2: that is very memorable. When we got down to coming
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Speaker 2: up with the name, we were very inspired by a
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Speaker 2: company called Blue Bottle in the US, which was a
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Speaker 2: fantastic coffee company, and they used a blue colour bottle
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Speaker 2: as a representation of their business or their name.
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Speaker 2: In fact, you would find that they didn't use their
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Speaker 2: name on their products on their cafes, et cetera. They
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Speaker 2: just had a beautiful blue colour bottle. And we said, OK,
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Speaker 2: our name should be something that,
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Speaker 2: without actually writing the name one could recognise the brand.
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Speaker 2: So when we went into thinking about names and when
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Speaker 2: sleepy owl came out of my co-founder mouth, we knew
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Speaker 2: it was a jackpot because people actually consume coffee or
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Speaker 2: associate consumption of coffee when they are sleepy. So you're
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Speaker 2: right when you say it's not an energetic name, it
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Speaker 2: doesn't give you that energy, but be
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Speaker 2: association of the brand name with the product we're selling.
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Speaker 2: It just had a perfect match, right? It is the owl, right?
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Speaker 2: It is a bird that stays awake at night. It
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Speaker 2: is a nocturnal creature, and being a lawyer and my
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Speaker 2: co-founder being a banker, we burn the midnight oil way
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Speaker 2: more times than you can remember, and we managed to
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Speaker 2: do that with a good cup of coffee. So sleeping
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Speaker 2: owl is actually an oxymoron. in the English language. There
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Speaker 2: are two words that don't go together. They are opposites.
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Speaker 2: And the third reason was that we were so happy
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Speaker 2: when the name came up. We knew that you are
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Speaker 2: pushing it, which is already a good sign that it's
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Speaker 2: difficult to forget once it peaks. Any curiosity in your mind?
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Speaker 2: I think, as an entrepreneur or in business, the name
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Speaker 2: is so crucial because the last thing you want is
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Speaker 2: someone saying, I tried this product.
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Speaker 2: It was lovely, but yeah, so the word of mouth
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Speaker 2: completely Fortunately for us, that hasn't happened because it's a
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Speaker 2: name that sticks to top of mind. And when it
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Speaker 2: comes to word of mouth, it it does the job
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Speaker 2: for us. So that's the story of how we landed
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Speaker 2: on this name
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Speaker 1: in 2016. I don't think too many people would want
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Speaker 1: to launch a coffee brand, given that there were so
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Speaker 1: many players in the market. What is the kind of
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Speaker 1: market research you put in place when you launched re
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Speaker 1: really
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Speaker 2: OK?
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Speaker 2: So I think, like you said, there were a lot
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Speaker 2: of players in the market at that time who named
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Speaker 2: all the big boys in the space, right? But all
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Speaker 2: the big boys were pretty much focused on one category,
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Speaker 2: which at that time was instant coffee, right, and they
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Speaker 2: were all selling instant coffee, and that is the largest
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Speaker 2: category in coffee. We knew at that point that when
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Speaker 2: we were getting into business, to get a consumer's attention
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Speaker 2: as to why sleepy out or why this brand right?
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Speaker 2: We knew that we need to start our journey
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Speaker 2: with a product that is highly differentiate, very unique and
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Speaker 2: probably something that is a consumer could associate just to us,
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Speaker 2: right brew happened to be globally trending at that point
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Speaker 2: in time, where there were upstarts across the globe that
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Speaker 2: were entering the cold brew segment, it was essentially challenger
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Speaker 2: brands across the globe that were focused on cod brew
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Speaker 2: in India. Nobody had done cold brew yet right among
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Speaker 2: the startups or among the larger players.
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Speaker 2: So again, the decision to do this was very intentional.
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Speaker 2: We said we know that nobody is asking for there
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Speaker 2: is no market for it, but it is something that
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Speaker 2: will pick up in the years to come,
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Speaker 2: and we wanted to be the torch bearers, the pioneers
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Speaker 2: for this category where we said short category here but
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Speaker 2: the non-existent here I think you mentioned that you are
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Speaker 2: a party or a get together, and you had tried
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Speaker 2: cold blue for the first time. That memory of trying
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Speaker 2: cold roof for the first time will always be associated
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Speaker 2: to sleepy out making that happen. And in 2016 17,
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Speaker 2: when we were promoting coral brew, the only people doing
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Speaker 2: cold were us. So,
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Speaker 2: yeah, consumers like yourself who are actually using P T
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Speaker 2: m getting used to air b N B Netflix uber
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Speaker 2: who were aware of global trends, what's happening around the world.
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Speaker 2: You guys would have researched or discovered coral brew in
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Speaker 2: your own experience as well, and said, OK, I want
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Speaker 2: to find out where I can get a coral brew
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Speaker 2: And the answer to that was one and only sleepy out.
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Speaker 2: So among a certain subset of modern day Indian consumers,
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Speaker 2: urban consumers aware consumers globally savvy consumers. We became the
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Speaker 2: go to brand right, and we put a lot of
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Speaker 2: effort and time into popularising coral brew in the country.
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Speaker 2: In fact, it was 2018 to
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Speaker 2: years after a launch when Starbucks, who had been in
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Speaker 2: India for six years already by then actually introduced core
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Speaker 2: to their cafes. So that was the point when the
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Speaker 2: first I would say large or multinational mainstream
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Speaker 1: in India, person
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Speaker 2: became mainstream in India and our consumers were like, Yeah,
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Speaker 2: Starbucks is introduced cold. What are you going to do?
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Speaker 2: And we were always like OK, anybody who comes in
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Speaker 2: now into coal, right is only going to do one
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Speaker 2: thing for us, which is expand the pipe,
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Speaker 2: increase the market opportunity for coal brew in India. And
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Speaker 2: we were very excited about it. We were very excited
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Speaker 2: that there'd be more people marketing the concept of coal
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Speaker 2: to because that was our only fear. Then listen,
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Speaker 2: everybody, please sell cold. Just sell a good, because we
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Speaker 2: don't want to get a to cold as a concept.
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Speaker 2: And I'll take the kill the segment, Yeah, to kill
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Speaker 2: the segment, Yes, but thankfully, that didn't happen. And you
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Speaker 2: are also confident that a customer who, even if they
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Speaker 2: have a average cold But they understand the concept of cold,
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Speaker 2: which is a coffee that is brewed overnight, which is
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Speaker 2: less acetic and less bitter.
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Speaker 2: They will want to research more and discover more because
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Speaker 2: it has certain benefits and they will soon enough arrive
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Speaker 2: at sleepy out right where we will do justice, give
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Speaker 2: them the best product, best service and ensure that they
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Speaker 2: continue to be consumers of the cold segment or category.
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Speaker 2: So that's how we approached it.
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Speaker 2: You could say from one length as an early stage
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Speaker 2: entrepreneur business, everyone tries to go after large market or large.
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Speaker 2: We went the other way and we said, Listen, let's
00:08:23
Speaker 2: create a name for ourselves in a small category, right?
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Speaker 2: Or let's create a category altogether right? And that is
00:08:29
Speaker 2: definitely a very bold move to make because it explored
00:08:33
Speaker 2: our
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Speaker 2: journey down a lot. But it ensured that what we
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Speaker 2: were building was great. Brand awareness, customer loyalty and honestly,
00:08:41
Speaker 2: changing people's habits and behaviours is a very tough thing
00:08:45
Speaker 2: to do. It requires a lot of marketing, a lot
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Speaker 2: of convincing, ensuring you are you're doing things consistently, correctly,
00:08:53
Speaker 2: endlessly over a long period of time and today, seven
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Speaker 2: years on, we are market leaders in the Cold War
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Speaker 2: segment in the country
00:09:00
Speaker 2: and have customers associate us with that category. Very top
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Speaker 2: of mind.
00:09:05
Speaker 1: You started off bootstrap, right? So how did you define
00:09:09
Speaker 1: your audience persona? Because it's not like a digital product
00:09:14
Speaker 1: where you could attribute it to very specific channels and
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Speaker 1: then refine your product based on the sort of data
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Speaker 1: that's filtering into the shelves.
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Speaker 2: When we started, as you mentioned, we were bootstrapped right.
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Speaker 2: We really didn't have the know how or the bandwidth
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Speaker 2: or the ability to vote traditional f MC g right,
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Speaker 2: which is where the largest market for coffee lines in
00:09:38
Speaker 2: the country. Right? Uh, in the demands and the big
00:09:41
Speaker 2: bazaars of the world. We built our business online right,
00:09:44
Speaker 2: because with the kind of budget that we started with,
00:09:46
Speaker 2: we said, Listen, let's set up a Shopify store and
00:09:48
Speaker 2: let's start shipping to consumers Performance Marketing also came seven
00:09:52
Speaker 2: or eight months into the journey, right?
00:09:54
Speaker 2: The first couple of months, all we did was word
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Speaker 2: of mouth right where we tried to tell people to
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Speaker 2: try our product. People Instagram was just picking up at
00:10:02
Speaker 2: that time as well, so there was a lot of
00:10:04
Speaker 2: user generated content that came up on Instagram. We focused
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Speaker 2: on doing food festivals, offline events, sampling office tasting where
00:10:12
Speaker 2: we would really target and sharp shoot. What are the offices?
00:10:14
Speaker 2: That we will go and make people try it?
00:10:16
Speaker 2: It wasn't your, um m n CS where we went
00:10:20
Speaker 2: and did sampling It was young startups, PR agencies, bloggers,
00:10:23
Speaker 2: you know. So we approached it from that perspective that
00:10:25
Speaker 2: these are the people who we think are our consumers,
00:10:28
Speaker 2: and our consumers may talk to or follow these kind
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Speaker 2: of people and narrowed it down like that. So it
00:10:35
Speaker 2: was very slow and steady. And it was only seven
00:10:38
Speaker 2: months later when we had some data on OK, who
00:10:40
Speaker 2: our customer is, What is their profile?
00:10:43
Speaker 2: That's when we started performance marketing and actually directing traffic
00:10:47
Speaker 2: to our website. Again, we were still not looking at
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Speaker 2: retail stores or also given the nature of the product
00:10:53
Speaker 2: that we had at that point, right? So we stuck
00:10:56
Speaker 2: to direct to consumer. For two full years. We did
00:10:58
Speaker 2: not explore any other channel,
00:11:00
Speaker 2: and once we had enough insights about consumers, that behaviour
00:11:04
Speaker 2: of who they are, we actually spent time then refining
00:11:07
Speaker 2: our product to be more scalable, to be something that
00:11:10
Speaker 2: can be more widely available. And it was only after
00:11:13
Speaker 2: two years that we actually went into retail, Amazon,
00:11:17
Speaker 2: Big Basket and other channels as well. So we put
00:11:19
Speaker 2: in that time and that energy to do it in
00:11:22
Speaker 2: terms of the fundamentals of building the brand and the business.
00:11:25
Speaker 2: I feel like a lot of you were taking
00:11:27
Speaker 1: into the marketing insights from Instagram the performance campaign insights
00:11:32
Speaker 1: or you were really going and calling people
00:11:34
Speaker 2: the latter actually, consumer conversations, right? I think, as founders,
00:11:37
Speaker 2: the 1st 1 customers, every single one of them has
00:11:41
Speaker 2: been called up by us spoken to. Asked about their
00:11:45
Speaker 2: experience drinking our product, their coffee habits where they used
00:11:49
Speaker 2: to buy from, why they bought us, what time of
00:11:52
Speaker 2: the day do they drink? Do they drink it? Or
00:11:53
Speaker 2: for very deep consumer conversation? In fact, I think over
00:11:57
Speaker 2: 202 to 202 50 customers. I have delivered products to
00:12:01
Speaker 2: the house myself,
00:12:02
Speaker 2: right? Just so that I get the opportunity to have
00:12:05
Speaker 2: a one on one interaction or a face to face
00:12:07
Speaker 2: interaction with them. And there are hundreds of those people
00:12:10
Speaker 2: who till today 2023 are on my WhatsApp. I still
00:12:14
Speaker 2: communicate with them. They still are sharing feedback on all
00:12:17
Speaker 2: the new launches and products. And these they are evangelists
00:12:20
Speaker 2: for the brand, right? So again, the previous point that
00:12:23
Speaker 2: I was mentioning a lot of early stage founders trying
00:12:25
Speaker 2: to shortcut this journey through simply
00:12:28
Speaker 2: spending money on performance advertising through Instagram or Google etcetera.
00:12:32
Speaker 2: But there is no better way than to actually do
00:12:35
Speaker 2: consumer calls feedback. Talk to your consumers and understand that,
00:12:38
Speaker 2: because that is how you will be able to develop
00:12:41
Speaker 2: the right products or the right strategies to get your
00:12:43
Speaker 2: products to more consumers. So we took the doing do
00:12:47
Speaker 2: things that don't scale very seriously and did a lot
00:12:50
Speaker 2: of things that don't scale.
00:12:51
Speaker 2: But that's what gave us the true insights into what
00:12:54
Speaker 2: consumers want. And I think all our developments, all our
00:12:57
Speaker 2: products that we've done, even when we moved away from
00:13:00
Speaker 2: specifically coal brew related products, right. We have a full
00:13:04
Speaker 2: range of instant coffees, cold coffees, everything. Now it's consumer feedback, right?
00:13:09
Speaker 2: This what consumers have told us they want. So
00:13:12
Speaker 1: that's how we do it.
00:13:14
Speaker 1: Got it. Let's dial back to those 1st 23 years.
00:13:17
Speaker 1: We are speaking of before we started recording and you
00:13:20
Speaker 1: told me about how marketing was done in house for
00:13:24
Speaker 1: the first 2 to 3 years. The traditional wisdom is
00:13:28
Speaker 1: F MC G is run on the reels that are
00:13:32
Speaker 1: created by hardcore brand marketing, right? So you'd hire an
00:13:36
Speaker 1: army of brand managers from M B A Colleges, and
00:13:39
Speaker 1: they put
00:13:39
Speaker 1: this marketing strategy in place heavy, offline marketing, and you'd
00:13:44
Speaker 1: go to market with that. Even now, you look at
00:13:47
Speaker 1: coffee brand I t. C launch that be in coffee
00:13:49
Speaker 1: product and you'd see holdings across across the city tell
00:13:53
Speaker 1: me a bit about what marketing looked like for the
00:13:57
Speaker 1: first 2 to 3 years, both in terms of the
00:13:59
Speaker 1: team and in terms of the mix. OK,
00:14:01
Speaker 2: marketing was entirely taken care of by my co-founder aee.
00:14:05
Speaker 2: We are three co-founders, and we divided our work kind
00:14:08
Speaker 2: of way that each of us didn't overlap with the
00:14:10
Speaker 2: other person's role in the business as well. Now it
00:14:13
Speaker 2: actually came from a mindset where marketing is about being transparent.
00:14:17
Speaker 2: It's about being authentic. It's about communicating your values, not
00:14:21
Speaker 2: just about selling a product. So we were bootstrapped. We
00:14:25
Speaker 2: didn't have the budget for outdoor or any sort of
00:14:28
Speaker 2: large media, the kind that you mentioned.
00:14:31
Speaker 2: To be honest, we were also available for that large
00:14:34
Speaker 2: media to be able to do justice right with marketing.
00:14:37
Speaker 2: It's always about available in the right place before you
00:14:41
Speaker 2: go ahead and market your product. We ensured that we
00:14:45
Speaker 2: got customers to where we were available, which was digital, right.
00:14:48
Speaker 2: We were available online
00:14:50
Speaker 2: on our website primarily, and we drove traffic to our
00:14:53
Speaker 2: website to get customers to buy there. Right, So we
00:14:56
Speaker 2: really sharpshooter and targeted consumers on their instagram, Facebook, Google,
00:15:01
Speaker 2: et cetera. So they landed on where they could find
00:15:03
Speaker 2: our product. If we weren't available in traditional trade, there
00:15:07
Speaker 2: would be no point hiring an army
00:15:09
Speaker 2: of M B A s or people who will go
00:15:11
Speaker 2: and buy media to go there. So it didn't work
00:15:15
Speaker 2: like that. Secondly, it wasn't a large team. It was
00:15:18
Speaker 2: my co-founder with a handful of interns who actually put
00:15:21
Speaker 2: together our marketing plan and our marketing strategy. The idea
00:15:25
Speaker 2: was like I said, to ensure that you are completely
00:15:29
Speaker 2: authentic and transparent in the way you're advertising your values
00:15:31
Speaker 2: and your value proposition. We were very bullish on making
00:15:35
Speaker 2: sure that
00:15:36
Speaker 2: will look great, because when you are selling digitally, you
00:15:39
Speaker 2: have to make sure that your product is tempting and
00:15:43
Speaker 2: actually gets customers mouths to water. And that's what that is.
00:15:47
Speaker 2: What will make them click right? You are actually not.
00:15:50
Speaker 2: You're not hoping to just do awareness right where the
00:15:52
Speaker 2: holding Act is in a holding deck here, right? The
00:15:54
Speaker 2: action is much quicker than seeing a holding and maybe
00:15:57
Speaker 2: remembering and going to retail. But here, the entire game mode. OK,
00:16:00
Speaker 2: this looks great. I want it. You gotta click now, right?
00:16:04
Speaker 2: Otherwise, that will go away. So that's how we approached it.
00:16:08
Speaker 2: And we made sure that things looked good, were visually
00:16:10
Speaker 2: appealing to the customer. And we felt that can only
00:16:14
Speaker 2: happen when you're doing it in house, right? The justice,
00:16:18
Speaker 2: the dedication to make sure stuff is perfect. Uh, as
00:16:22
Speaker 2: for his standards
00:16:23
Speaker 2: than what we wanted could only happen when you have
00:16:25
Speaker 2: a small team dedicated to it, rather than being one
00:16:29
Speaker 2: among many clients for an agency where you might just
00:16:32
Speaker 2: get lost, we were also like you mentioned Bootstrap. So
00:16:34
Speaker 2: not that we would have been the A one client
00:16:36
Speaker 2: for an agency. So we took the matters in house
00:16:39
Speaker 2: and we built it slowly and steadily and again against
00:16:43
Speaker 2: conventional wisdom. It takes time, and there is no shortcut
00:16:46
Speaker 2: to doing it that way, especially if you're a bootstrap
00:16:49
Speaker 2: early stage founder.
00:16:50
Speaker 1: You were running ads on Facebook and instagram
00:16:52
Speaker 2: correct Facebook instagram. And on Google we were playing with search.
00:16:55
Speaker 2: The search volumes for our our products weren't high. It
00:16:58
Speaker 2: was important for us to be there when the customer
00:17:00
Speaker 2: is searching for it. And like I was telling you,
00:17:02
Speaker 2: people were getting away right? Like the awareness around cold
00:17:05
Speaker 2: grow the awareness around coffee. You know, that movement was
00:17:09
Speaker 2: happening around us, right? So we had to capitalise on
00:17:11
Speaker 2: those consumers that have the intake right. When you don't
00:17:15
Speaker 2: have large budgets, you can't go spray and pray, right.
00:17:18
Speaker 2: You have to really narrow and sharp shoot down to OK,
00:17:21
Speaker 2: These are the guys searching for freshly brewed coffee.
00:17:24
Speaker 2: These are the guys searching for 100% for coffee. These
00:17:26
Speaker 2: are searching for So these were the words that we
00:17:29
Speaker 2: focused on when people were searching from Google. We were
00:17:32
Speaker 2: right there for them to click on us and understand
00:17:34
Speaker 2: what we do. We also find that our website would
00:17:36
Speaker 2: be the best place to educate a consumer because you
00:17:38
Speaker 2: mentioned category defining category defining means that a customer doesn't
00:17:43
Speaker 2: know or have awareness about
00:17:45
Speaker 2: the nuances of this. Which means you have to teach them.
00:17:48
Speaker 2: You have to convince them it is not Oh, I've
00:17:51
Speaker 2: tried this, but, um, this is a different brand. No,
00:17:53
Speaker 2: it wasn't the case. It was an entirely new category.
00:17:56
Speaker 2: So we felt our website and our video content would
00:17:59
Speaker 2: be the app to be to be able to do this.
00:18:01
Speaker 2: So again we would turn out every every couple of days,
00:18:04
Speaker 2: we'd have the in house team make a new video
00:18:06
Speaker 2: or a new series of photos, right to be able
00:18:08
Speaker 2: to convince the customer that Hey, this is exciting. Give
00:18:11
Speaker 2: it a shot.
00:18:12
Speaker 1: God, what did the marketing team look like back then?
00:18:15
Speaker 2: It was honestly, it was a leading it along with
00:18:18
Speaker 2: I think we had two interns, one copywriter. When we
00:18:22
Speaker 2: to me, if I go all the way back A
00:18:24
Speaker 2: learned how to use a camera himself to do photography.
00:18:26
Speaker 2: I again understand it's not
00:18:28
Speaker 2: again. You may look back and say, OK, that is
00:18:30
Speaker 2: so easy to outsource. Get a photographer. But we said, OK,
00:18:34
Speaker 2: we can't afford even a photographer today. So it started
00:18:36
Speaker 2: with absolute basics. But yes, then the photographer and the videographer,
00:18:41
Speaker 2: And that's how we gradually build our And until today,
00:18:44
Speaker 2: our team is entirely in house. Uh, we occasionally work
00:18:47
Speaker 2: with freelancers who do good work and bring them on board.
00:18:50
Speaker 2: But but we don't say work with an agency for
00:18:53
Speaker 2: our social media content and video content for
00:18:56
Speaker 2: performance marketing. On the other hand, which is unlike social
00:18:59
Speaker 2: media marketing, when you go to performance marketing, it requires
00:19:02
Speaker 2: technical know how, and for that we have explored freelancers
00:19:06
Speaker 2: agencies in house the whole mix right, because it keeps
00:19:09
Speaker 2: changing what's working, what's not. So we've tried everything on
00:19:13
Speaker 2: that front, and we found mixed results across the board, right?
00:19:16
Speaker 2: There is no there is no quick fix or hack
00:19:19
Speaker 2: for performance marketing, but Social Media as a marketing tool,
00:19:23
Speaker 2: is still in house and always has
00:19:26
Speaker 1: got it. The owl mascot is quite naturally synonymous to
00:19:31
Speaker 1: the
00:19:32
Speaker 1: sleepy brand now. So when did the Owl mascot really
00:19:36
Speaker 1: come about? And how did the Owl mascot really come about?
00:19:39
Speaker 2: OK, over the course of our journey, we we've actually
00:19:42
Speaker 2: we'd be surprised to know the logo, the brand positioning
00:19:46
Speaker 2: in terms of the way it looks and feels. This
00:19:48
Speaker 2: is not the first iteration. This is the third iteration
00:19:51
Speaker 2: of our of our journey. So when we start to
00:19:54
Speaker 2: look a certain way, we evolved 67 months into the journey.
00:19:57
Speaker 2: And then
00:19:58
Speaker 2: when we finally were getting into offline, which is retail,
00:20:01
Speaker 2: right traditional f MC g, we realised that we had
00:20:04
Speaker 2: to rebrand again. So it was, I think, 2018 2018
00:20:08
Speaker 2: 2019 was when we had our final rebrand which which
00:20:11
Speaker 2: gives us this this logo, this owl, this final. And
00:20:15
Speaker 2: it was at that time in those conversations during that
00:20:18
Speaker 2: rebrand when we realised that we actually have the owl, uh,
00:20:22
Speaker 2: which can be an interesting mascot for us, right?
00:20:25
Speaker 2: But we still didn't activate the mascot in 2019. It
00:20:29
Speaker 2: was 2022 last year when the mascot finally came to light.
00:20:34
Speaker 2: When We were fairly confident that it is a great
00:20:36
Speaker 2: time to unleash the mascot, but it was always there
00:20:39
Speaker 2: in the background that this is something we could do.
00:20:41
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's how we approach the mascot. I think
00:20:44
Speaker 2: as a brand, we obviously evolved, right? Why we changed
00:20:48
Speaker 2: our logo or our colours or our The way we
00:20:52
Speaker 2: look into identity was because, hm,
00:20:55
Speaker 2: when we started, there were we didn't know what categories
00:20:57
Speaker 2: we enter into. Right when we started, we weren't aware
00:21:00
Speaker 2: that we'd be doing a product in an aluminium can
00:21:02
Speaker 2: or we'd be, you know, an instant coffee. So that's
00:21:05
Speaker 2: a part of the evolution. So it was at that
00:21:07
Speaker 2: time that we said, Listen to incorporate all future projects
00:21:12
Speaker 2: that we may want to do.
00:21:13
Speaker 2: We need a solid, solidly done brand identity, and we
00:21:18
Speaker 2: actually worked with some very qualified, very interesting people to
00:21:22
Speaker 2: be able to do this for us, right? That was
00:21:24
Speaker 2: the first time we, I think, carved out a significant
00:21:27
Speaker 2: budget for this purpose. Prior to this, for the first
00:21:30
Speaker 2: three years, it was again pretty much done by friends
00:21:33
Speaker 2: and family. And you have to be. You have to
00:21:35
Speaker 2: know at what point that taps out right, and we
00:21:39
Speaker 2: took that call data. So again, I'm not of the
00:21:41
Speaker 2: opinion that on day one
00:21:42
Speaker 2: you need to be spending a lot of money or
00:21:45
Speaker 2: hiring experts in to to get this done. If it's
00:21:48
Speaker 2: at a later stage, once you have your basics in
00:21:51
Speaker 2: place is when you can go ahead and take a
00:21:53
Speaker 2: decision like that.
00:21:55
Speaker 1: What is the current marketing mix like for a CPO?
00:21:58
Speaker 2: It's it's, uh so our current marketing mix is still
00:22:01
Speaker 2: mostly digital. Uh, now it's spread across our website Amazon
00:22:05
Speaker 2: blanket Insta Z, right? We are heavily advertising on Q commerce,
00:22:10
Speaker 2: so that still comes as a digital channel.
00:22:12
Speaker 2: And the rest of it is sampling and trial because
00:22:15
Speaker 2: one thing we've learned over the course of the last
00:22:17
Speaker 2: couple of years is that in the food category, more
00:22:20
Speaker 2: than a holding, it is actually getting our customer to
00:22:22
Speaker 2: try the product right. That really helps in convergence. So
00:22:25
Speaker 2: we do a lot of food festivals, events. We have
00:22:27
Speaker 2: promoters and retail stores. That's a part of our marketing mix,
00:22:31
Speaker 2: because we would rather always ensure to spend money and
00:22:35
Speaker 2: make people try the product rather than spend it on them,
00:22:38
Speaker 2: just becoming aware about right.
00:22:40
Speaker 2: So that's how we that's how That's what our marketing
00:22:42
Speaker 2: mix looks like today.
00:22:43
Speaker 1: I mean, often when a brand goes from online only
00:22:49
Speaker 1: into offline and online, you go from being pirates to
00:22:54
Speaker 1: be somewhat of a Navy. There are more touch points.
00:22:57
Speaker 1: There are more set distributors, more site channels in terms
00:23:02
Speaker 1: of production and how distribution will happen. What changed for
00:23:06
Speaker 1: the brand in terms of the brand strategy or the
00:23:09
Speaker 1: marketing
00:23:10
Speaker 1: the first time when you went offline
00:23:12
Speaker 2: in offline retail right marketing can get very expensive, right?
00:23:17
Speaker 2: Because I would divide that into 21 is in store marketing,
00:23:21
Speaker 2: right marketing at the point of sale where the customer
00:23:24
Speaker 2: is actually going to buy the product and the other
00:23:26
Speaker 2: is marketing not at the point of sale, right. So again,
00:23:29
Speaker 2: if I take a step back, whether I'm branding on autos, boardings, newspapers,
00:23:33
Speaker 2: et cetera, it's not point of sale Advertising. A brand
00:23:36
Speaker 2: at our scale stage cannot focus on
00:23:39
Speaker 2: advertising that is not point of sale. So when we
00:23:41
Speaker 2: went into retail, a advertising has always been at the
00:23:44
Speaker 2: point of sale, which is more danglers Bob Shell strips
00:23:47
Speaker 2: instore branding in store consumer offer, which we call it. Traditionally,
00:23:51
Speaker 2: it's called Trademark, so that's where our focus has been.
00:23:54
Speaker 2: But I think one step before marketing is being available
00:23:57
Speaker 2: in the right locations, right. You cannot expect to be
00:24:02
Speaker 2: available everywhere, right? You have to really sharp and pinpoint
00:24:06
Speaker 2: where your consumer is, where they are going.
00:24:08
Speaker 2: And for that being digitally native or digitally first has
00:24:12
Speaker 2: really helped in us understanding where our consumer life and
00:24:15
Speaker 2: on that basis you activate certain retail pin codes and
00:24:19
Speaker 2: retail stores. The second is category benchmarking again. It is
00:24:24
Speaker 2: very crucial to understand that does a product at your
00:24:27
Speaker 2: price point or your for. For example, this is the
00:24:31
Speaker 2: 100 and ₹25 cold coffee can, right?
00:24:33
Speaker 2: It needs to be in a store where Red Bull
00:24:35
Speaker 2: is right. It needs to be in a store where
00:24:38
Speaker 2: you have products at that price point that are selling right.
00:24:41
Speaker 2: You cannot expect to put this in a store that's
00:24:43
Speaker 2: not there, so I think even before marketing it is
00:24:46
Speaker 2: about being correctly available, and that's a very crucial step
00:24:49
Speaker 2: because that is where your consumer or your P G
00:24:52
Speaker 2: is coming in right in. If you're in the wrong store,
00:24:56
Speaker 2: you as much as marketing you want to do, you
00:24:58
Speaker 2: can do your product. Will not
00:25:00
Speaker 1: online attribution sort of defines offline strategy. It's a
00:25:04
Speaker 2: good start. It's a good start for a brand to
00:25:07
Speaker 2: refer to that. If they have that capability or, if
00:25:09
Speaker 2: they have been online first before offline. If then the
00:25:13
Speaker 2: brands that are straight away, going offline, first base, their
00:25:15
Speaker 2: category or basis their product, then that strategy would be
00:25:18
Speaker 2: mainly through category benchmark. So for us, it has been
00:25:21
Speaker 2: a mix of both
00:25:23
Speaker 1: Got it. And how do you now define your audience?
00:25:26
Speaker 1: Is it still primarily from those online channels that you
00:25:29
Speaker 1: used to define your audience earlier and customer calls? Or
00:25:33
Speaker 1: has that
00:25:34
Speaker 2: also change? I think given that we have more touch
00:25:36
Speaker 2: points we're exploring. So
00:25:38
Speaker 2: we do know that our product at this price point
00:25:41
Speaker 2: fits in a certain channel, has a certain kind of
00:25:43
Speaker 2: consumer who's willing to pay for this and the kind
00:25:46
Speaker 2: of product quality that they expect to exchange. But what
00:25:48
Speaker 2: we're now doing is now that we're in the offline world,
00:25:51
Speaker 2: I think everyone listening to this will know, but I'll
00:25:54
Speaker 2: delete it. The offline world is very tied in terms
00:25:57
Speaker 2: of the way it's segmented, right. You have modern trade,
00:26:01
Speaker 2: you have a plus general trade ABC so on and
00:26:05
Speaker 2: so forth, and then all the way down to your
00:26:07
Speaker 2: neighbourhood shop or right. So it is about again understanding
00:26:12
Speaker 2: where your product fits in this segment, right? Not everything
00:26:16
Speaker 2: will sell everywhere. Now. We also launch new products, depending
00:26:21
Speaker 2: on the consumer, we want to target, not the other
00:26:23
Speaker 2: way around. It's not saying that this is my consumer
00:26:25
Speaker 2: and this is the It's OK. Can I
00:26:27
Speaker 2: create something that fits a certain consumer profile? And that's
00:26:32
Speaker 2: another way of looking at it, where some products are
00:26:34
Speaker 2: specifically like our entire beverage business is offline. First, right?
00:26:39
Speaker 2: It's not something that does very well on my my
00:26:41
Speaker 2: website as a digital platform or Amazon or the product
00:26:44
Speaker 2: for that matter. But
00:26:45
Speaker 2: it does very well on quick commerce right where the
00:26:48
Speaker 2: new face makes sense. So it's again looking at your
00:26:52
Speaker 2: product portfolio and segmenting it bases the channel where you
00:26:55
Speaker 2: want to be. And you know where the consumer is, right?
00:26:58
Speaker 2: So that's how you know the mix is defined.
00:27:02
Speaker 1: How has the brand definition changed, or has it changed
00:27:05
Speaker 1: at all? Because when you branch into so many products,
00:27:08
Speaker 1: you started from cold brew? Now you are into instant
00:27:11
Speaker 1: coffee as well. How do you still hold on to
00:27:13
Speaker 1: that essence of what you started off?
00:27:15
Speaker 2: I think See, when we started right, we were solving
00:27:18
Speaker 2: a personal pin point or a personal problem, right? Was
00:27:21
Speaker 2: that why can't great quality coffee be available in a
00:27:24
Speaker 2: very convenient manner or format? Like I mentioned in the
00:27:27
Speaker 2: beginning to stand out, we had to be extremely differentiated
00:27:31
Speaker 2: from what was in the market. And for that, the
00:27:34
Speaker 2: answer was cold. Brew,
00:27:35
Speaker 2: extremely convenient has amazing benefits, unique format highly differentiated, and
00:27:40
Speaker 2: we managed to sell that product online in a very
00:27:43
Speaker 2: big way. It's not something that works as well offline, right,
00:27:46
Speaker 2: because the consumer that is aware is more shopping online
00:27:49
Speaker 2: than the average consumer walking into a retail store, right,
00:27:52
Speaker 2: so that I think, essentially performs really well online, right
00:27:56
Speaker 2: versus offline. Over the years, we realised that as a business.
00:27:59
Speaker 2: If we want to continue to grow and scale,
00:28:01
Speaker 2: there will be other categories that we will have to enter, right?
00:28:05
Speaker 2: So our user proposition did change in terms of product categories,
00:28:08
Speaker 2: but one co that we chose to retain was that
00:28:12
Speaker 2: it is great quality coffee that will be available
00:28:16
Speaker 2: in a very convenient manner for consumers. So those tenets
00:28:19
Speaker 2: have stayed the same in terms of quality, in terms
00:28:22
Speaker 2: of convenience in terms of focusing on world class Indian coffee, Right?
00:28:26
Speaker 2: That's something we haven't broken out of yet. We've still
00:28:28
Speaker 2: chosen to work with Indian coffee farmers and pioneer Indian coffee, right?
00:28:33
Speaker 2: So these are the basic tenets that that we focus
00:28:36
Speaker 2: on as as marketeers as business owners that this is
00:28:38
Speaker 2: how we would like to approach.
00:28:41
Speaker 1: The last question I had really was about the advice
00:28:46
Speaker 1: you'd give
00:28:47
Speaker 1: to the version of Arman from 2016 on brand building
00:28:52
Speaker 1: mistakes he'd commit that he could avoid if he's launching
00:28:56
Speaker 1: a product in the F. M.
00:28:58
Speaker 2: OK, that's very interesting. I I don't think we made
00:29:00
Speaker 2: too many mistakes in brand building. I think that's one
00:29:03
Speaker 2: of the areas where we've been
00:29:06
Speaker 2: fairly on the right side. I think a couple of
00:29:08
Speaker 2: things that I'd go back and do is have a
00:29:11
Speaker 2: deeper understanding of the consumer from the beginning, rather than
00:29:15
Speaker 2: gradually right. I think some of the insights that came
00:29:18
Speaker 2: to us in year four year five could have been
00:29:21
Speaker 2: discovered sooner
00:29:23
Speaker 2: had we been more open minded about it, right? Let's say,
00:29:26
Speaker 2: for example, we were very bullish on our stand being
00:29:30
Speaker 2: freshly brewed coffee, not instant coffee, right? As a business,
00:29:33
Speaker 2: as a brand, as people as individuals, right where you're
00:29:37
Speaker 2: building for ourselves. And I said, Listen, I want to
00:29:39
Speaker 2: drink freshly brewed coffee and that's what I want to
00:29:41
Speaker 2: serve customers. But the more we dug into and and
00:29:45
Speaker 2: peel the layers of the onion on our consumer right,
00:29:48
Speaker 2: we realised that, and this is a story from even
00:29:51
Speaker 2: yesterday morning, right?
00:29:53
Speaker 2: Hm.
00:29:54
Speaker 2: There are so many consumers who, while consuming freshly brewed coffee,
00:29:59
Speaker 2: also
00:30:00
Speaker 2: drink instant coffee, right? It's a part of the country.
00:30:04
Speaker 2: It is a part of their shelf. It has a
00:30:05
Speaker 2: different consumption occasion, right? I may wake up in the
00:30:09
Speaker 2: morning and, as a part of my ritual, make a
00:30:12
Speaker 2: freshly brewed cup But during the day, on a hot
00:30:15
Speaker 2: summer evening, I want to whip up a instant coffee.
00:30:17
Speaker 2: Cold coffee. So be it. I had two hot cups
00:30:20
Speaker 2: of coffee this morning, but I'm enjoying a cold coffee
00:30:23
Speaker 2: in a can right now. Right.
00:30:25
Speaker 2: These insights is unravelling. Had it come a little sooner,
00:30:28
Speaker 2: we wouldn't have positioned our brand strictly around one type.
00:30:32
Speaker 2: And I think that is one of the things I'd say.
00:30:34
Speaker 2: Don't get caught in your own hubris. Don't necessarily always
00:30:39
Speaker 2: be focused on building for yourself, right? It's always for
00:30:42
Speaker 2: the consumer. So that's one thing I'd like to advise people.
00:30:46
Speaker 1: And on that insightful note, guys, it's a wrap. Thank
00:30:49
Speaker 1: you so much for being on the podcast, man. Really
00:30:51
Speaker 1: appreciate you taking time out.
00:30:53
Speaker 2: Thank you s absolute pleasure talking with you.
00:30:59
Speaker 1: Thank you for tuning into the U Incorporated podcast with me. Second,
00:31:03
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00:31:08
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00:31:13
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00:31:20
Speaker 1: We have all the links in our show notes. See
00:31:23
Speaker 1: you on the next episode.