In Season 2 Episode 3, we have the pleasure of hosting Arjun Vaidya, co-founder of V3 Ventures & Dr. Vaidya's – India's leading Ayurveda brand in the realm of D2C ecommerce.
As one of the nation's foremost authorities on D2C brands and marketing, Arjun has garnered significant recognition. Together with Arjun Vaidya, we delve into the vital aspects of content, branding, community-building, and performance marketing in the world of D2C business models. Additionally, we explore common brand-building mistakes that many early-stage D2C founders commit and discuss effective strategies for discounting and customer delight.
This episode is an invaluable source of insights for any aspiring or current D2C business owner or marketer seeking to enhance their knowledge on D2C marketing.
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00:00:32
Saikat Pyne: So, guys, we have, uh, Arjun. Arjun is the co-founder
00:00:37
Saikat Pyne: of V three ventures, and he is one of the
00:00:40
Saikat Pyne: country's most renowned and well recognised, uh, experts on D T. C. So, guys,
00:00:47
Saikat Pyne: we are going to discuss about, uh, brand building in
00:00:51
Saikat Pyne: D T C and, uh, going deep by. We are
00:00:54
Saikat Pyne: going deep. We are going super deep on this.
00:00:56
Saikat Pyne: Um, tell me about why, uh, performance marketing doesn't cut
00:01:04
Saikat Pyne: it into two C
00:01:06
Saikat Pyne: because it's about getting business. I
00:01:09
Arjun Vaidya: would first, uh, confess that I use performance marketing and
00:01:14
Arjun Vaidya: I use it to the maximum. Right. But I will
00:01:16
Arjun Vaidya: say that when I started my business in 2016 17
00:01:20
Arjun Vaidya: and I started my digital journey in November 2017, the
00:01:23
Arjun Vaidya: world was a different place.
00:01:26
Arjun Vaidya: The world was a different place because D two c
00:01:28
Arjun Vaidya: didn't exist as a term. Yeah,
00:01:30
Arjun Vaidya: the world was a different place because the number of
00:01:33
Arjun Vaidya: consumers shopping online was lower and the world was a
00:01:36
Arjun Vaidya: different place because the amount of competition online was also
00:01:39
Arjun Vaidya: significantly lower.
00:01:41
Arjun Vaidya: So we had a head start in terms of if
00:01:44
Arjun Vaidya: there was someone who wanted to buy online. You buy
00:01:47
Arjun Vaidya: this because they didn't have other options. Right?
00:01:49
Arjun Vaidya: The challenges that came with us, lots of convincing, required.
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Arjun Vaidya: Should I buy from your website? I'm not sure if
00:01:54
Arjun Vaidya: your website will even deliver to me, et cetera, et cetera.
00:01:56
Arjun Vaidya: That was the world right? But in that world, the
00:01:59
Arjun Vaidya: amount of competition for advertising was low. Only a few
00:02:03
Arjun Vaidya: are with our brand trying to advertise online etcetera. Right?
00:02:06
Arjun Vaidya: So in that market, in that world, in that ecosystem,
00:02:09
Arjun Vaidya: you could actually use performance marketing at a relevant R
00:02:12
Arjun Vaidya: y and actually make money.
00:02:16
Arjun Vaidya: No, all of us went through 2020. All of us
00:02:19
Arjun Vaidya: went through Covid and our parents, our grandparents who had
00:02:23
Arjun Vaidya: never picked up a smartphone and made a purchase who
00:02:26
Arjun Vaidya: had never used pay T m extensively. My mom had
00:02:30
Arjun Vaidya: didn't even have online banking set up. These customers,
00:02:33
Arjun Vaidya: then became a part of the digital consumption ecosystem, some
00:02:36
Arjun Vaidya: of them for a short period of time, some of
00:02:38
Arjun Vaidya: them for a long period of time. Some of them,
00:02:39
Arjun Vaidya: like my dad, still continue to be a part of
00:02:41
Arjun Vaidya: this ecosystem. Now, when they became a part of this ecosystem,
00:02:44
Arjun Vaidya: brands like us boom right. We had a crazy time
00:02:47
Arjun Vaidya: in the first
00:02:50
Arjun Vaidya: 4 to 5 months of the financial year 2021 which is,
00:02:55
Arjun Vaidya: let's say, April 20 to maybe October 20. It was crazy.
00:03:01
Arjun Vaidya: Everyone was buying everything online and as a as an individual.
00:03:06
Arjun Vaidya: I drank the cool and I said, Boss, I'll never
00:03:08
Arjun Vaidya: buy anything online. I don't think people will buy stuff
00:03:11
Arjun Vaidya: offline off the day right? That's what I was saying
00:03:14
Arjun Vaidya: to myself at that time.
00:03:16
Arjun Vaidya: Now, with all of this and the success of D
00:03:19
Arjun Vaidya: two c brand, the scale of D two c brand
00:03:20
Arjun Vaidya: were an exponential level, right? If you think about your
00:03:24
Arjun Vaidya: time as well at P. T. M. Demonization was just
00:03:26
Arjun Vaidya: a black swan event for the platform. So this was
00:03:31
Arjun Vaidya: this was covid for D CDC? Yeah, with all of this,
00:03:35
Arjun Vaidya: because the country we live in with the scale with
00:03:38
Arjun Vaidya: the success stories, all of those things
00:03:40
Arjun Vaidya: there also came an influx of a huge number of brands. Absolutely.
00:03:46
Arjun Vaidya: And then year 2021
00:03:49
Arjun Vaidya: where Dr and various D two C brands got amazing
00:03:52
Arjun Vaidya: funding rounds, amazing exits, large outcomes, et cetera. All of
00:03:56
Arjun Vaidya: that that led to even further increase in the number
00:03:58
Arjun Vaidya: of brands. Lots of V C money pouring into the ecosystem,
00:04:01
Arjun Vaidya: et cetera. All of that, right? Right. So you now
00:04:03
Arjun Vaidya: had lots of customers who had come and lots of brands,
00:04:07
Arjun Vaidya: which was fine. It was OK, right Then 2022 happened,
00:04:11
Arjun Vaidya: and after March offline opened right and with offline opening,
00:04:14
Arjun Vaidya: what happened is a lot of the customers that had
00:04:16
Arjun Vaidya: come on d two C that we thought we were
00:04:18
Arjun Vaidya: going to stay on
00:04:19
Arjun Vaidya: and order they move back. Hm? No,
00:04:23
Arjun Vaidya: if I give you an example
00:04:26
Arjun Vaidya: or a corollary, right. There was one customer online. Pre-covid.
00:04:32
Arjun Vaidya: There became 10 customers online during Covid. You had a
00:04:35
Arjun Vaidya: huge increase and then category by category, As the world opened,
00:04:39
Arjun Vaidya: that number became 34 or five. Right now, 34 or
00:04:42
Arjun Vaidya: five is better than one, but it's less than 10, right?
00:04:45
Arjun Vaidya: And so brands had tore proliferate. So what you had
00:04:47
Arjun Vaidya: is lots of brands, right? Slightly lesser number of customers,
00:04:54
Arjun Vaidya: the same supply of ads, plus the whole I OS updates,
00:04:57
Arjun Vaidya: et cetera. Lack of data sharing, which meant went up
00:05:00
Arjun Vaidya: significantly and with going up significantly
00:05:04
Arjun Vaidya: I I don't think performance marketing is dead right? And
00:05:08
Arjun Vaidya: I've said this before. I think performance marketing cannot be
00:05:12
Arjun Vaidya: your only channel to advertise. You have to couple performance
00:05:16
Arjun Vaidya: marketing with brand.
00:05:18
Arjun Vaidya: And so my view and what I didn't Do right,
00:05:22
Arjun Vaidya: which
00:05:24
Arjun Vaidya: show today is a scribe
00:05:27
Arjun Vaidya: and be strict about describing a certain budget or percentage
00:05:32
Arjun Vaidya: of a budget budget on a consistent basis for brand
00:05:35
Arjun Vaidya: brand includes content, community, organic video production, influencers, et cetera.
00:05:40
Arjun Vaidya: But 10% 20% 25% 15% 1 of the number is
00:05:44
Arjun Vaidya: on a consistent basis. Need to be spent on brand.
00:05:47
Arjun Vaidya: This will actually make your performance marketing effective without brand.
00:05:51
Arjun Vaidya: You're lost in the
00:05:52
Saikat Pyne: Got it? So how do you come up with that?
00:05:53
Saikat Pyne: Split
00:05:54
Arjun Vaidya: the number of 10 15 2025. That's a decision which
00:05:58
Arjun Vaidya: you have to learn through trial and er, But once
00:06:00
Arjun Vaidya: you take that decision, you can't say I spent it
00:06:02
Arjun Vaidya: one month. Then I stopped one month and I didn't
00:06:04
Arjun Vaidya: do it for six months. Then I got back like
00:06:06
Arjun Vaidya: I see influences. I said, How much you try another
00:06:11
Arjun Vaidya: month that doesn't work right? You got to be consistent
00:06:14
Arjun Vaidya: on the top of the fun to generate the results
00:06:16
Arjun Vaidya: that required.
00:06:17
Arjun Vaidya: And by the way, top of the fun activities will
00:06:19
Arjun Vaidya: not give you direct. A. I like performance marketing, right?
00:06:21
Arjun Vaidya: It's a different kind of activity. Absolutely,
00:06:24
Saikat Pyne: absolutely. But
00:06:27
Saikat Pyne: when it comes to digital brand building, how do you
00:06:30
Saikat Pyne: define a brand? Like what? How how does a founder define?
00:06:35
Saikat Pyne: This is my brand equity? Because when you're thinking from
00:06:40
Saikat Pyne: the performance marketing lens, which might be the case with
00:06:42
Saikat Pyne: multiple founders, you're thinking of putting money down one funnel
00:06:46
Saikat Pyne: and getting leads down. Other other. So where does brand equity?
00:06:49
Saikat Pyne: How do you gauge brand equity, then? Because there's no
00:06:51
Saikat Pyne: number for that.
00:06:53
Arjun Vaidya: Look, I think our digital brands and offline brands or
00:06:55
Arjun Vaidya: just general brands, have the same metrics. Brand equity cannot
00:07:00
Arjun Vaidya: be quantified, even if you're an F MC G brand
00:07:03
Arjun Vaidya: selling in stores. So it's the share of voice you
00:07:06
Arjun Vaidya: have in the market. It's the
00:07:08
Arjun Vaidya: customer love you get. It's the recall your brand gets
00:07:12
Arjun Vaidya: when a customer sees it another time, but they remember
00:07:15
Arjun Vaidya: to see it, and all of this eventually leads to
00:07:18
Arjun Vaidya: that thought process. In the consumer's mind, which leads to
00:07:21
Arjun Vaidya: that dopamine secretion that results in the purchase. Right.
00:07:24
Arjun Vaidya: So I would say its brands are not actually very
00:07:27
Arjun Vaidya: different from brands or offline brands. We knew them, right? Um,
00:07:31
Arjun Vaidya: and the metrics for share of voice etcetera are not
00:07:34
Arjun Vaidya: very different. Just the channel is different sort of TV.
00:07:37
Arjun Vaidya: It may be YouTube instead of newspapers. It may be
00:07:40
Arjun Vaidya: Facebook instead of radio. Or maybe instagram, right. But the metrics,
00:07:45
Arjun Vaidya: the way you judge it, the way you look at
00:07:47
Arjun Vaidya: it remains the same for true.
00:07:49
Saikat Pyne: True that true that true that true that true that. But, um,
00:07:54
Saikat Pyne: in terms of a new entrant in, let's say, a space.
00:07:58
Saikat Pyne: So let me give you an idea. Um, I create
00:08:01
Saikat Pyne: a very expensive premium wool shoes again. OK, I'm wearing one. Imagine,
00:08:08
Saikat Pyne: in a world that all birds and Niman didn't exist,
00:08:12
Saikat Pyne: I'm I'm launching a premium shoe brand.
00:08:15
Saikat Pyne: And in this case, how do I ensure that I
00:08:19
Saikat Pyne: have that brand recall for my brand while still not
00:08:24
Saikat Pyne: over indexing on one, um, on one specific channel, be
00:08:29
Saikat Pyne: it brand or be it performance? Because sometimes when somebody
00:08:32
Saikat Pyne: when a founder is indexing,
00:08:34
Saikat Pyne: it's a new category. They don't have a benchmark, and
00:08:36
Saikat Pyne: they either overspend or they underspend. So either they are
00:08:39
Saikat Pyne: not able to capture the market until somebody comes in.
00:08:42
Saikat Pyne: Or they are sort of, uh, leaving money on, you know,
00:08:47
Saikat Pyne: leaving money on the table and not able to ask
00:08:50
Saikat Pyne: you a really
00:08:50
Arjun Vaidya: tough question. Actually,
00:08:53
Arjun Vaidya: finding that balance
00:08:56
Arjun Vaidya: is a question I don't have an answer for because
00:08:57
Arjun Vaidya: it's different for each brand, and it takes a lot
00:08:59
Arjun Vaidya: of time to figure out what works for you. What
00:09:02
Arjun Vaidya: I would say is what I learned right, which is
00:09:05
Arjun Vaidya: be open to be proven, be open to be proven
00:09:08
Arjun Vaidya: wrong
00:09:10
Arjun Vaidya: and be really, really close to hearing what your customer
00:09:15
Arjun Vaidya: feels right. What does that mean? That means in the
00:09:18
Arjun Vaidya: digital business, you can actually speak to every single customer
00:09:21
Arjun Vaidya: if you like. So the first year that I was running, doctor,
00:09:24
Arjun Vaidya: I picked up the phone and I spoke to every
00:09:26
Arjun Vaidya: customer I bought from us, and I used to pick
00:09:28
Arjun Vaidya: up the customer care phone on the weekends. Now what
00:09:30
Arjun Vaidya: did this tell me? This told me that the urban
00:09:35
Arjun Vaidya: niche elite brand that I wanted Dr To be,
00:09:38
Arjun Vaidya: which is my consumption pattern was no. My customer was 82%
00:09:42
Arjun Vaidya: of my customers came from outside the top 10 cities.
00:09:44
Arjun Vaidya: Most of them didn't speak English. And so my high
00:09:47
Arjun Vaidya: quality copy that I used to write myself for those
00:09:49
Arjun Vaidya: English ads were not relevant for 70% of my audience.
00:09:53
Arjun Vaidya: They just didn't understand what was going on. Right? So
00:09:55
Arjun Vaidya: I feel for the urban niche shoe brand example that
00:09:59
Arjun Vaidya: you gave as well, I would say the best way
00:10:02
Arjun Vaidya: to start is to actually speak to the relevant customer,
00:10:06
Arjun Vaidya: understand the problems, craft your brand communication around that, do
00:10:11
Arjun Vaidya: some organic content test and then launch.
00:10:13
Saikat Pyne: Lovely. You sort of led me on to my next question.
00:10:16
Saikat Pyne: What's the role of content? Where does content come in
00:10:19
Saikat Pyne: and organic content? Then we'll speak about content.
00:10:21
Arjun Vaidya: Yeah, So I'm gonna say I'm gonna say one thing, and, um,
00:10:23
Arjun Vaidya: I'm gonna make a
00:10:26
Arjun Vaidya: make a statement, which is my prediction for where the
00:10:31
Arjun Vaidya: world of D two C brands will go right.
00:10:34
Arjun Vaidya: All d to C brands need to think like creators,
00:10:38
Arjun Vaidya: and all creators need to think like business owners love that.
00:10:41
Arjun Vaidya: And the person or the people
00:10:44
Arjun Vaidya: that can do both are the ones that will succeed
00:10:47
Arjun Vaidya: in the next 10 years. Why? Because
00:10:51
Arjun Vaidya: consumers and think about your the way you scroll on
00:10:53
Arjun Vaidya: Instagram or the way you scroll on YouTube. Are you
00:10:56
Arjun Vaidya: really excited to see Arjun where they're constantly just bombard
00:10:59
Arjun Vaidya: with the product? No,
00:11:01
Arjun Vaidya: But you see Arjun, we talk about I in general,
00:11:04
Arjun Vaidya: his experience with asthma, getting cured of asthma. What herbs
00:11:08
Arjun Vaidya: have helped him in his daily lifestyle isn't that much
00:11:11
Arjun Vaidya: more interesting. And so when I looked at content on
00:11:13
Arjun Vaidya: my team, my doctor, I said, New rule from 2020 onwards.
00:11:17
Arjun Vaidya: If you're not sharing on your personal instagram, it's not
00:11:20
Arjun Vaidya: going up on the brand's instagram,
00:11:21
Arjun Vaidya: so only once a team believes that it's worth sharing
00:11:24
Arjun Vaidya: as a story on your personal instagram and you're proud
00:11:27
Arjun Vaidya: to share, we go on our instagram lovely love. That
00:11:30
Arjun Vaidya: content should be value, adding absolutely not just pushing your product.
00:11:33
Arjun Vaidya: Absolutely another example, right? You start these WhatsApp groups at Doctor,
00:11:37
Arjun Vaidya: it's called daily tips.
00:11:39
Arjun Vaidya: We would have people opt in to join these WhatsApp groups.
00:11:42
Arjun Vaidya: We had more than 100 groups running every day between
00:11:44
Arjun Vaidya: seven and nine PM. We give you one tip on.
00:11:47
Arjun Vaidya: It could be I herbs. It could be yoga and Ida.
00:11:51
Arjun Vaidya: It could be it could be ailments in relation to that.
00:11:55
Arjun Vaidya: It could be any of these things, right? Right.
00:11:57
Arjun Vaidya: Six out of seven times between seven and nine PM
00:12:01
Arjun Vaidya: in the week you'd get a non rand tip.
00:12:03
Arjun Vaidya: And once you get either a product or something about
00:12:07
Arjun Vaidya: a consultation or something about a sale or a brand, right.
00:12:10
Arjun Vaidya: But every day of the week, those 25 27 customers
00:12:14
Arjun Vaidya: on these WhatsApp groups will see my logo
00:12:17
Arjun Vaidya: because they get a WhatsApp and everybody uses WhatsApp at all. Absolutely.
00:12:20
Arjun Vaidya: Let's see my logo every day at 79 PM. Have
00:12:23
Arjun Vaidya: they ever thought about it? They remember my logo.
00:12:26
Arjun Vaidya: That's the way to build the recall. That's not just push, push, push, push, push.
00:12:30
Saikat Pyne: Absolutely. Absolutely. We actually had in season one, uh, Kumar,
00:12:34
Saikat Pyne: the chief operating officer of O m l. He just
00:12:36
Saikat Pyne: said boss at O M L. We don't work with
00:12:38
Saikat Pyne: brands that say logo in content marketing because whenever it's
00:12:43
Saikat Pyne: a logo client, you know what the pitch of that
00:12:47
Saikat Pyne: conversation
00:12:47
Arjun Vaidya: is.
00:12:49
Saikat Pyne: absolutely, and the customer doesn't care about the brand. Most importantly,
00:12:52
Saikat Pyne: I don't think most customers care about brands. They care
00:12:54
Saikat Pyne: about products,
00:12:56
Saikat Pyne: whether it's replaced by brand ABC. As long as the
00:12:59
Saikat Pyne: product adds value to their life and they'll go, they'll
00:13:02
Saikat Pyne: go for it. And as long as the information makes
00:13:05
Saikat Pyne: adds value to their, you know, sort of repository of
00:13:08
Saikat Pyne: knowledge or information adds value to their life. People are
00:13:11
Saikat Pyne: constantly looking to add value to their lives, whether it
00:13:14
Saikat Pyne: be through content through products through services. And you should
00:13:17
Saikat Pyne: speak to that rather than by the way this brand
00:13:20
Saikat Pyne: is doing this. The moment you said that you lost them.
00:13:25
Saikat Pyne: So do you then also believe that there should not
00:13:30
Saikat Pyne: be any ads? Because what you said right now is
00:13:34
Saikat Pyne: all your content or communication to the customer should be information.
00:13:40
Saikat Pyne: So then what's the
00:13:41
Arjun Vaidya: size of the all can be? Because your job is
00:13:44
Arjun Vaidya: to be a brand that makes money right? So you
00:13:47
Arjun Vaidya: have to do
00:13:49
Arjun Vaidya: as much as possible that you can to add value.
00:13:52
Arjun Vaidya: But most nobody brought to the end of it. If
00:13:54
Arjun Vaidya: you're giving five tips about
00:13:58
Arjun Vaidya: I one tip can be here, by the way, for immunity.
00:14:01
Arjun Vaidya: You can use this product right? So you have to
00:14:03
Arjun Vaidya: organically slip your brand in because look, at the end
00:14:06
Arjun Vaidya: of the day, like a brand is creator. That gets
00:14:09
Arjun Vaidya: other brand deals and stuff like that, right? You got
00:14:11
Arjun Vaidya: to make money.
00:14:12
Arjun Vaidya: But if you can have your page or your platform
00:14:16
Arjun Vaidya: as one that adds value and look, customers are not dumb, right? Absolutely.
00:14:20
Arjun Vaidya: The biggest mistake that we can make as brand owners
00:14:24
Arjun Vaidya: is to
00:14:25
Arjun Vaidya: underestimate how smart customers are
00:14:28
Arjun Vaidya: and so customers are not. They know you are a
00:14:29
Arjun Vaidya: brand page, but if they like some content, they'll share
00:14:32
Arjun Vaidya: it and save it right. That's what you need to get,
00:14:35
Saikat Pyne: right, right? And I keep thinking
00:14:38
Saikat Pyne: YouTubers who people adore people are not ready to subscribe
00:14:44
Saikat Pyne: to the YouTube channel. You keep hearing on YouTube, 70%
00:14:47
Saikat Pyne: of you haven't subscribed. Please subscribe. 60% of you haven't subscribed.
00:14:51
Saikat Pyne: What are the odds of a user subscribing to the
00:14:56
Saikat Pyne: instagram page of a brand knowing very well that that
00:15:00
Saikat Pyne: brand is going to push branded messaging to me? It's
00:15:02
Saikat Pyne: like you are You are out in the street willing
00:15:06
Saikat Pyne: to be hit by a billboard like nobody goes out
00:15:09
Saikat Pyne: in the street expecting Boss Ahmed does billboard deer, right?
00:15:14
Arjun Vaidya: No, I agree with you, and I think that, like
00:15:15
Arjun Vaidya: what you're saying makes total sense like, I would only
00:15:18
Arjun Vaidya: follow brands that really mean something to me. Or would
00:15:21
Arjun Vaidya: I get some information that I don't get in other places? Lovely. Um,
00:15:25
Arjun Vaidya: so I follow Nike.
00:15:27
Arjun Vaidya: I love Nike. I
00:15:28
Saikat Pyne: think they've nailed it in brands. And
00:15:30
Arjun Vaidya: I'm an aspiring or wanna be athlete. I love to
00:15:33
Arjun Vaidya: do my fitness stuff, so I thought,
00:15:35
Arjun Vaidya: I like it
00:15:36
Saikat Pyne: absolutely that they they make some great content, great content,
00:15:41
Saikat Pyne: and it's never about pushing their products. It's always about
00:15:46
Saikat Pyne: the lifestyle, the lifestyle that you're you're aspiring to. What, then,
00:15:51
Saikat Pyne: is then the rule of ads? Then, like if if
00:15:53
Saikat Pyne: you take that apart, if all communication should aspire to
00:15:57
Saikat Pyne: be
00:15:58
Saikat Pyne: information or entertainment, an ad is neither. So what's The
00:16:02
Saikat Pyne: rule of ad in a detail
00:16:03
Arjun Vaidya: can be entertainment. It's not like a can be can
00:16:06
Arjun Vaidya: be a look if you are able to build that
00:16:10
Arjun Vaidya: top of funnel to generate that interest and excitement in
00:16:13
Arjun Vaidya: the mind of the consumer. The ad is a moment
00:16:16
Arjun Vaidya: of truth.
00:16:16
Arjun Vaidya: If you have added enough value to the customer, if
00:16:18
Arjun Vaidya: you have proved to the customer your product is indeed
00:16:22
Arjun Vaidya: that exciting or that interesting for them, then when the
00:16:25
Arjun Vaidya: ad comes to them, it's like, Oh, I was already
00:16:29
Arjun Vaidya: thinking about it. Now that this has come, let me
00:16:30
Arjun Vaidya: click and buy. Uh, and there are so many times
00:16:33
Arjun Vaidya: where I've seen a brand three times and I'm like, Oh,
00:16:35
Arjun Vaidya: I saw the ad as well. OK, might as well
00:16:37
Arjun Vaidya: buy it right like there is a brand called This
00:16:40
Arjun Vaidya: Is Motherland. They have India focused,
00:16:44
Arjun Vaidya: apparently, like there's a there's a
00:16:48
Arjun Vaidya: not ethnic wear. It's Western wear with Indian imagery on it.
00:16:53
Arjun Vaidya: There's a full sleeve t-shirt that I was wearing yesterday,
00:16:56
Arjun Vaidya: which are the Indian flag colours on it. It said
00:16:59
Arjun Vaidya: India simple. I've seen lots of their content about stuff
00:17:03
Arjun Vaidya: they do with the army and then stuff they do
00:17:05
Arjun Vaidya: with army regiments and what the brand means. And then
00:17:07
Arjun Vaidya: I saw this ad and said Malo was wearing it.
00:17:10
Arjun Vaidya: I just bought it,
00:17:10
Saikat Pyne: got it, got it. So it's either the hook that
00:17:14
Saikat Pyne: gets people into the discovery journey or it's the one
00:17:19
Saikat Pyne: that sort of over the edge. So it can be
00:17:22
Saikat Pyne: like at both ends. It can be somewhere in the
00:17:24
Saikat Pyne: middle constantly informing people, which then also means Do you
00:17:26
Saikat Pyne: then recommend that people don't do ads repeatedly? Because when
00:17:31
Saikat Pyne: you as a marketer and I've done this with agency partners,
00:17:33
Saikat Pyne: when you go to a, um
00:17:36
Saikat Pyne: and, uh, a media selling agency, they'd say, Boss,
00:17:39
Arjun Vaidya: you have to show your customers six time before they purchase. Yes.
00:17:43
Arjun Vaidya: So
00:17:43
Saikat Pyne: where Where where does, uh, the ad, then come in. And, um,
00:17:48
Saikat Pyne: they'd also give you discounts. And I've seen a lot
00:17:50
Saikat Pyne: of startup founders go for these discounts. This ad would
00:17:53
Saikat Pyne: come in your newspaper every day for one month, and
00:17:56
Saikat Pyne: this is the discount. If this side is going to
00:17:58
Saikat Pyne: come in your news, uh, in our newspaper, these bunch
00:18:01
Saikat Pyne: of newspapers for seven days, 10 days, 15 days.
00:18:04
Saikat Pyne: Do you think that adds any value, or do you
00:18:07
Saikat Pyne: do it occasionally? And the rest of the What is
00:18:11
Saikat Pyne: your sustenance? Then the sustenance is content, and occasionally you
00:18:14
Saikat Pyne: do the ads or
00:18:16
Arjun Vaidya: has to be content. You have to do ads not
00:18:19
Arjun Vaidya: occasionally at all points of time, but what I think
00:18:22
Arjun Vaidya: there's nothing wrong with discounts. By the way, right?
00:18:24
Arjun Vaidya: I think we live in a country that's value conscious.
00:18:27
Arjun Vaidya: I'm a value conscious consumer, even though I may consider
00:18:30
Arjun Vaidya: myself an urban consumer who is at the top end
00:18:33
Arjun Vaidya: of the pyramid in terms of consumption and India value conscious.
00:18:36
Arjun Vaidya: And I had a very interesting meeting once back in
00:18:39
Arjun Vaidya: the days with Ramani, founder of Right, and
00:18:44
Arjun Vaidya: He I had I had gone and showed him, my doctor,
00:18:46
Arjun Vaidya: various products and he saw my bum and he said
00:18:50
Arjun Vaidya: So I said, It's 1 ₹25 for 50 grammes He said, Move, Price, price.
00:18:56
Arjun Vaidya: So I told him my R price and then I
00:18:58
Arjun Vaidya: I said, I don't know the others and he said,
00:19:00
Arjun Vaidya: You are expensive
00:19:01
Arjun Vaidya: So I said, Yeah, I'm slightly more expensive and he said,
00:19:03
Arjun Vaidya: You're expensive So I said, What do you mean? He
00:19:06
Arjun Vaidya: said Consumers are value conscious, So I said, Yeah, you're right.
00:19:10
Arjun Vaidya: Indian consumers are value conscious, he said. No, you're not
00:19:14
Arjun Vaidya: an Indian consumer, right? You live in a country called
00:19:18
Arjun Vaidya: Bombay right? And a part of Bombay, which is a
00:19:20
Arjun Vaidya: different world. Your consumption may be like anyone in New
00:19:24
Arjun Vaidya: York L. A Hong Kong, London Where do you book
00:19:28
Arjun Vaidya: your flights?
00:19:30
Arjun Vaidya: So I said I booked them online. He said, um
00:19:33
Arjun Vaidya: went online.
00:19:34
Arjun Vaidya: I said, whichever the cheapest, he said. So you will
00:19:38
Arjun Vaidya: go to for a ₹200 discount or make my trip?
00:19:40
Arjun Vaidya: I said Yes, he said. So are you value conscious?
00:19:43
Arjun Vaidya: Every customer in the world is conscious, so
00:19:47
Arjun Vaidya: discounts are OK. The problem with discounts is they become
00:19:51
Arjun Vaidya: addictive for customers and for brand owners. And then once
00:19:56
Arjun Vaidya: your brand becomes addictive in relation to discounts for your customers,
00:20:01
Arjun Vaidya: they will never buy you
00:20:04
Arjun Vaidya: without the discount. And that's a big risk to be
00:20:07
Arjun Vaidya: perceived as a discount brand discount or the brand that
00:20:12
Arjun Vaidya: gives stuff for free. Yeah, right. And so you have
00:20:14
Arjun Vaidya: to be very careful and tactical about when,
00:20:19
Arjun Vaidya: how often and how much discount you offer. So that
00:20:23
Arjun Vaidya: discount is a way to boost your sales, but not
00:20:26
Arjun Vaidya: a way to kill your brand?
00:20:28
Saikat Pyne: Absolutely, Absolutely. And I've spoken to so many CMO s
00:20:32
Saikat Pyne: who say, behind closed doors after a couple of drinks, but, uh,
00:20:36
Saikat Pyne: discount it, It's like a tap. You turn it on
00:20:41
Saikat Pyne: discount MGA hamara and we target to. But then, is
00:20:46
Saikat Pyne: there a way for you? And because he's thinking about
00:20:49
Saikat Pyne: his next appraisal, he's not thinking about it from the
00:20:51
Saikat Pyne: founder's lens, right
00:20:52
Arjun Vaidya: brand custodian. There has to be someone in every brand
00:20:56
Arjun Vaidya: who is the brand custodian who pretty much safeguards the values,
00:21:02
Arjun Vaidya: ethics and ethos of the brand
00:21:04
Arjun Vaidya: and prevent things like this from happening. If it hurts
00:21:08
Arjun Vaidya: the brand, it's fine for the brand. It's OK, but
00:21:10
Arjun Vaidya: that one person I was that person, I would be
00:21:13
Arjun Vaidya: the stickler on that creative Our logo is placed wrong.
00:21:17
Arjun Vaidya: That creative has fonts that we're not supposed to use.
00:21:20
Arjun Vaidya: The logo can't be on the top left. It has
00:21:22
Arjun Vaidya: to be on the top, right? I was a stickler
00:21:23
Arjun Vaidya: because once you start giving yourself, leave it with your brand,
00:21:27
Arjun Vaidya: you're gone. Then anything goes, anything goes, and that's not OK.
00:21:32
Saikat Pyne: Absolutely. Is there a way to do discounts? Right? Because
00:21:36
Saikat Pyne: I think discounts and online content and couple of these
00:21:39
Saikat Pyne: are used as marketing tools in India. So is there
00:21:43
Saikat Pyne: any way to do discount? I think
00:21:45
Arjun Vaidya: there is a way it has to be periodic.
00:21:49
Arjun Vaidya: It has to be occasional, and it has to be
00:21:53
Arjun Vaidya: used to push the customers who are kind of thinking
00:21:56
Arjun Vaidya: about it or found it too expensive over the edge.
00:21:59
Arjun Vaidya: So regular customers who really believe in your brand will
00:22:02
Arjun Vaidya: buy you with or without the discount. You won't be
00:22:03
Arjun Vaidya: giving them the discount. They're buying it anyway. Right? But
00:22:07
Arjun Vaidya: the customers were like, Oh, this is too expensive. Oh,
00:22:08
Arjun Vaidya: I'm thinking about it. I'm not sure. Maybe I'll buy
00:22:11
Arjun Vaidya: it tomorrow and then they get the discount and they're like, Oh,
00:22:13
Arjun Vaidya: my God, like I've done it recently with the brand, Um,
00:22:16
Arjun Vaidya: there is a athletic brand that I use,
00:22:19
Arjun Vaidya: and the products are reasonably expensive. Work out like it
00:22:23
Arjun Vaidya: would be like ₹1900 for a t-shirt, ₹1500 for shorts,
00:22:28
Arjun Vaidya: ₹1900 for shorts. So I was thinking I should buy
00:22:31
Arjun Vaidya: on Zimmer. I should buy on Zimmer, and I got
00:22:33
Arjun Vaidya: a WhatsApp from the Republic Day sale 40% off from
00:22:36
Arjun Vaidya: the public sale. I bought my t-shirt and my shorts.
00:22:38
Arjun Vaidya: Would
00:22:38
Saikat Pyne: you would you have bought it? If it was 25% off?
00:22:41
Arjun Vaidya: I would have would
00:22:43
Saikat Pyne: it be? Would it still be OK if it had
00:22:45
Saikat Pyne: been 15% off? I
00:22:46
Arjun Vaidya: don't know. I don't know. So
00:22:49
Saikat Pyne: there is a sweet spot then with this you can't
00:22:51
Arjun Vaidya: solve for that sweet spot. Like you'll see Arjun. The
00:22:54
Arjun Vaidya: brand left money on the table because you're willing to
00:22:55
Arjun Vaidya: buy 25 but they give you 40. But you can't
00:22:58
Arjun Vaidya: solve for that, right? Like on a generalised sale basis.
00:23:02
Arjun Vaidya: What you can solve for is on a retention basis.
00:23:04
Arjun Vaidya: So
00:23:05
Arjun Vaidya: if a customer has placed an order last month in
00:23:07
Arjun Vaidya: especially and you want them to place an order again,
00:23:09
Arjun Vaidya: you send them a reorder communication through email s MS
00:23:13
Arjun Vaidya: that coupon code, I'm sure. First no coupon code. OK,
00:23:16
Arjun Vaidya: so the high market first no coupon code in two days,
00:23:19
Arjun Vaidya: you get no reaction. Then you send a coupon code.
00:23:21
Arjun Vaidya: If you get a click through, then you wait.
00:23:24
Arjun Vaidya: If they still don't buy, then the ones that click
00:23:26
Arjun Vaidya: through you send a different coupon code the ones that
00:23:28
Arjun Vaidya: don't click through a different different coupon code. So that
00:23:30
Arjun Vaidya: way you can segment. But in general you're running a
00:23:32
Arjun Vaidya: large sale when you can't segment you. You'll end up
00:23:34
Arjun Vaidya: leaving some money on the table, and that's fine. That's fine.
00:23:36
Saikat Pyne: That's fine. Because what
00:23:37
Arjun Vaidya: 15 for me is 25 for you,
00:23:39
Arjun Vaidya: 40 for him, right?
00:23:40
Saikat Pyne: You can't standardise it. There's no standard in terms of
00:23:44
Saikat Pyne: in terms of discounting. The other thing I saw was
00:23:47
Saikat Pyne: I left When I was about to buy shoes. I
00:23:50
Saikat Pyne: checked out sketches. I checked out a couple of other
00:23:52
Saikat Pyne: brands Nike and a couple of other brands. I would
00:23:55
Saikat Pyne: always and I I have been over the past couple
00:23:58
Saikat Pyne: of years only been wearing Niman specifically. This is not
00:24:02
Saikat Pyne: a brand plug, guys. I don't get money although open
00:24:04
Saikat Pyne: to having money. But, uh,
00:24:07
Saikat Pyne: I left the card. Um, didn't So I I added
00:24:11
Saikat Pyne: it to the card, didn't, uh, pay. And I was
00:24:14
Saikat Pyne: signed in and they sent an email just in, like,
00:24:17
Saikat Pyne: five minutes with a 25% off coupon. And that was
00:24:20
Saikat Pyne: enough to convert
00:24:21
Arjun Vaidya: me. Yeah. Yeah, because
00:24:23
Arjun Vaidya: when you add something to your card and your brand,
00:24:25
Arjun Vaidya: you are the highest possible intent customer. Your brand has
00:24:29
Arjun Vaidya: to win that you as a brand. You have to
00:24:32
Arjun Vaidya: win that customer. They've done all the effort of browsing, checking,
00:24:37
Arjun Vaidya: choosing what they wanted in your case, adding choosing the
00:24:40
Arjun Vaidya: colour and the shoe size
00:24:42
Arjun Vaidya: and bring some details. And you have to win that customer, right? Right.
00:24:47
Arjun Vaidya: Our calling team would pick up the phone and call
00:24:48
Arjun Vaidya: the customer number that you have to win that customer.
00:24:53
Arjun Vaidya: You have to win the customer. Right?
00:24:55
Saikat Pyne: Right, Right. I got this today not with the DC,
00:24:57
Saikat Pyne: but for, um um I was looking for an online
00:25:01
Saikat Pyne: form solution. A bunch of my friends are coming up
00:25:04
Saikat Pyne: with startup ideas. And I said, Hey, why don't we
00:25:06
Saikat Pyne: just get people on LinkedIn voting on which of these
00:25:09
Saikat Pyne: ideas are cooler than others
00:25:11
Saikat Pyne: said I was looking for an online form builder and
00:25:14
Saikat Pyne: I checked out a couple of them, signed into one, uh,
00:25:17
Saikat Pyne: and didn't went to the payment page of the pro plan,
00:25:21
Saikat Pyne: didn't buy it. I got a call from a lady
00:25:24
Saikat Pyne: saying, Hey, you were checking it out. You know, I said,
00:25:26
Saikat Pyne: I'll
00:25:26
Arjun Vaidya: give you a discount. Can I
00:25:28
Saikat Pyne: give you a discount? I said, Damn, man, this is
00:25:30
Saikat Pyne: 15 minutes.
00:25:31
Arjun Vaidya: It's amazing, right? It's crazy. It's what they should be doing,
00:25:34
Arjun Vaidya: though Yes.
00:25:35
Saikat Pyne: Imagine this happening five years ago. It's crazy. It would
00:25:38
Saikat Pyne: never have happened five years
00:25:39
Arjun Vaidya: ago. I mean, think about the world we live in now.
00:25:41
Arjun Vaidya: I was chatting with the founder the other day. He's
00:25:43
Arjun Vaidya: a pre seed startup, just trying to start up in
00:25:46
Arjun Vaidya: the home space.
00:25:48
Arjun Vaidya: And I said, What's the status of the business? He said.
00:25:50
Arjun Vaidya: Website to website to the r. A designing the r
00:25:54
Arjun Vaidya: A and I've written more than 100 pages of content
00:25:56
Arjun Vaidya: using GP d e o friendly content. This this used
00:26:00
Arjun Vaidya: to take us a lot of time to populate the pages,
00:26:03
Arjun Vaidya: populate the blogs like 100 pages of content GP d
00:26:06
Arjun Vaidya: I I don't
00:26:07
Saikat Pyne: think there's going to be a space for an average
00:26:09
Saikat Pyne: content S c o Content Creator anymore.
00:26:12
Saikat Pyne: I I see with Chad GP t the average content creator,
00:26:17
Saikat Pyne: the average s c o guy, the average Web designer.
00:26:21
Saikat Pyne: The average, um
00:26:24
Arjun Vaidya: I think the skill will be now to take what
00:26:26
Arjun Vaidya: they have and tweak it to make it absolutely, absolutely
00:26:30
Arjun Vaidya: so the editor will be more relevant than the writer.
00:26:33
Saikat Pyne: Absolutely, Absolutely. Even with video editing, I have a couple
00:26:37
Saikat Pyne: of my fellow creators who have editors
00:26:40
Saikat Pyne: who edit after the A I has already taken a
00:26:43
Saikat Pyne: shot at the video.
00:26:44
Arjun Vaidya: So just that tweaking element that tweaking that personalization, that
00:26:49
Saikat Pyne: personalization of should this guy be on the big screen?
00:26:53
Saikat Pyne: Or should this guy be on the small screen or
00:26:55
Saikat Pyne: vice versa when you put these specific edits? Because A.
00:26:58
Saikat Pyne: I is just about getting there.
00:26:59
Saikat Pyne: But once it gets there, it's then going to be
00:27:02
Saikat Pyne: about conceptualization, right conceptualization of the content because at least
00:27:06
Saikat Pyne: until now, a. I can't be super, super creative. But, uh,
00:27:11
Saikat Pyne: the other thing I wanted to discuss was about why
00:27:14
Saikat Pyne: a brand should create content when it can. Always and again,
00:27:19
Saikat Pyne: I'm playing the devil's advocate here. Why should a brand
00:27:23
Saikat Pyne: create its own content when it can only, like always,
00:27:26
Saikat Pyne: be an influencer to do it for them?
00:27:29
Arjun Vaidya: Yeah, I think it's a It's a good question, I
00:27:31
Arjun Vaidya: think two reasons. One is definitely more cost economical and, uh,
00:27:36
Arjun Vaidya: sort of money were to be cost friendly, you know.
00:27:38
Arjun Vaidya: But I'm saying, I'm saying money is a boundary, so
00:27:41
Arjun Vaidya: it is definitely more cost friendly to create content yourself.
00:27:44
Arjun Vaidya: But it's also more efficient right. You come with an
00:27:47
Arjun Vaidya: idea and you need Let's see, there's a topic running
00:27:49
Arjun Vaidya: right not to Not to won the Golden Globe Award
00:27:53
Arjun Vaidya: and you're an influencer for you. Got to contact them.
00:27:55
Arjun Vaidya: Close the raid. Give them a concept you can get
00:27:57
Arjun Vaidya: in 20 minutes, right? So I think, from a cost
00:28:00
Arjun Vaidya: as well as a rapid execution perspective, I think doing
00:28:04
Arjun Vaidya: it yourself is very good.
00:28:06
Arjun Vaidya: The second thing, It's always good to have your own channel,
00:28:09
Arjun Vaidya: which is owned by you and controlled by you, right?
00:28:12
Arjun Vaidya: I'm not saying it's bad to have influencers. They have reset.
00:28:14
Arjun Vaidya: You may never have, and so you should use them effectively.
00:28:16
Arjun Vaidya: But your own channel is your own channel. Is your
00:28:18
Arjun Vaidya: own channel
00:28:19
Saikat Pyne: absolutely, absolutely Building on rented land versus
00:28:22
Arjun Vaidya: Think about right. Lots of brands
00:28:26
Arjun Vaidya: have,
00:28:27
Arjun Vaidya: let's say, for example, a content creator creating content for them.
00:28:32
Arjun Vaidya: Um, let's take the example of my family's business in
00:28:34
Arjun Vaidya: the jewellery space, right? And we get influencers and and
00:28:38
Arjun Vaidya: celebrities and thought leaders to post photos with our jewellery.
00:28:43
Arjun Vaidya: The focus of the food is the jewellery. That's what
00:28:45
Arjun Vaidya: we want. We collaborate with the person person posts on
00:28:48
Arjun Vaidya: their page and half the comments about you look great.
00:28:53
Arjun Vaidya: Missing the jewellery, right? That's not great for me.
00:28:56
Saikat Pyne: That
00:28:57
Saikat Pyne: through that so the the product has to be the
00:29:00
Saikat Pyne: centre of attention, the
00:29:01
Arjun Vaidya: the content. You can manage that. But if the influencer
00:29:04
Arjun Vaidya: creates content, I don't blame them for it not being right,
00:29:06
Arjun Vaidya: because making it too also doesn't make sense.
00:29:09
Saikat Pyne: That and it's also their fans who love love them. Yes,
00:29:14
Saikat Pyne: so suddenly it's their star effect, sort of star value
00:29:19
Saikat Pyne: off on your product and not the other way around. Correct.
00:29:21
Saikat Pyne: So that's it's important that way. But, um,
00:29:25
Saikat Pyne: in terms of building a marketing channel for a completely
00:29:30
Saikat Pyne: new D to C brand, how would you go about
00:29:33
Saikat Pyne: if you were to be a new D to C
00:29:35
Saikat Pyne: brand founder? Now, what would be the like? Who would
00:29:38
Saikat Pyne: be the higher number 123 for you,
00:29:42
Arjun Vaidya: for building a brand for building a brand? Um, I
00:29:45
Arjun Vaidya: think critical hires. Yeah, as you start the business,
00:29:50
Arjun Vaidya: definitely having
00:29:52
Arjun Vaidya: an in house brand person, that person may not have
00:29:57
Arjun Vaidya: to create the content, do the designs, et cetera, but
00:29:59
Arjun Vaidya: manage the freelancers or agencies from a brand perspective and
00:30:03
Arjun Vaidya: a content perspective, which wasn't the case when I started.
00:30:05
Arjun Vaidya: That's 12, either the founders or a team member who
00:30:09
Arjun Vaidya: knows the technicalities of performance marketing again to manage the agency.
00:30:12
Arjun Vaidya: And three
00:30:13
Arjun Vaidya: having someone in House for Ops because the post purchase
00:30:17
Arjun Vaidya: experience is not spoken about enough. But it's critical if
00:30:21
Arjun Vaidya: a customer places an order. They've obviously spent money with you.
00:30:24
Arjun Vaidya: If after that, they don't have a good experience and
00:30:26
Arjun Vaidya: they don't retain with you, it's a big problem for you.
00:30:29
Saikat Pyne: Got it? Got it. So a brand person, a performance
00:30:32
Saikat Pyne: marketer and an office. That's great. OK, so let's say
00:30:36
Saikat Pyne: I get a bit more budget and I get CD
00:30:39
Saikat Pyne: A and I want to make two more hires. So
00:30:40
Saikat Pyne: my first five hires who would be the marketplace
00:30:43
Arjun Vaidya: person,
00:30:45
Arjun Vaidya: um, to manage the marketplace business, Right? And then, um,
00:30:49
Arjun Vaidya: customer service customer service, of course. Yeah. Customer service is critical, right?
00:30:53
Saikat Pyne: Yeah. Yeah. You You can't automate everything naturally once the
00:30:56
Saikat Pyne: order after that would probably be
00:30:58
Saikat Pyne: Then after that would be that. Got it? Got it.
00:31:00
Saikat Pyne: Fair enough. Um,
00:31:03
Saikat Pyne: what's the best way to partner with an influencer? Uh
00:31:07
Saikat Pyne: Let's not speak about campaigns. Let's speak about, um,
00:31:12
Saikat Pyne: if I were to partner with an influencer in a
00:31:15
Saikat Pyne: way where I realised that this guy has an audience
00:31:18
Saikat Pyne: or this girl has an audience that's super crucial to
00:31:21
Saikat Pyne: my brand. Uh, think about S d two c. Whatever.
00:31:24
Saikat Pyne: What's the best way to partner with the Creator?
00:31:27
Arjun Vaidya: You want to make the person feel like they actually
00:31:30
Arjun Vaidya: are part of the brand? It could be through a
00:31:33
Arjun Vaidya: long term deal. It could be through equity arrangement. But
00:31:37
Arjun Vaidya: the worst thing for a creator is one offs, right?
00:31:40
Arjun Vaidya: They don't They don't like to think that you want
00:31:42
Arjun Vaidya: to make them feel like you're invested with them for
00:31:44
Arjun Vaidya: a long period of time. And you appreciate the audience.
00:31:45
Arjun Vaidya: That's point number one point number two. Putting too many
00:31:48
Arjun Vaidya: guards ruins the quality of content,
00:31:50
Arjun Vaidya: you say Hey, this is my product. This is the hashtag.
00:31:52
Arjun Vaidya: This is my brand. You gotta dance in this way.
00:31:54
Arjun Vaidya: You got to say this. Say that. Wear this coloured clothing.
00:31:57
Arjun Vaidya: The person is bored
00:31:59
Arjun Vaidya: or unhappy, right? Because these people are creative people whose
00:32:02
Arjun Vaidya: content their fans love in the way that they post it.
00:32:06
Arjun Vaidya: So you got to be flex about the guard rails
00:32:09
Arjun Vaidya: and have your non negotiables in place. So you definitely
00:32:12
Arjun Vaidya: need these three things, right? These six things are optional.
00:32:14
Arjun Vaidya: You can think about it, but do it as you like.
00:32:16
Arjun Vaidya: Got it. I think these two things will help you
00:32:18
Arjun Vaidya: really get the best bang for Buck and the best
00:32:21
Arjun Vaidya: quality of content out.
00:32:22
Saikat Pyne: Absolutely, absolutely. But how do you realise this is one
00:32:25
Saikat Pyne: other thing? I've spoken with so many of my friends
00:32:28
Saikat Pyne: who are marketers being a marketer myself, it's hard to
00:32:32
Saikat Pyne: not come by them, But
00:32:35
Saikat Pyne: it seems to me that there is this craze of
00:32:38
Saikat Pyne: marketers going for creators with with a certain following, so
00:32:44
Saikat Pyne: they need a 20 followers and up on Instagram. I
00:32:48
Saikat Pyne: think
00:32:48
Arjun Vaidya: that's also changing. There it is. Um, I think
00:32:51
Arjun Vaidya: brands are becoming more cognizant of metrics like engagement and
00:32:55
Arjun Vaidya: engaged audiences. And so an influencer who had a lot
00:32:58
Arjun Vaidya: of following that was garnered three years ago, whose page
00:33:02
Arjun Vaidya: is now dead or not growing brands are being able
00:33:05
Arjun Vaidya: to pick that up. There are tools that help them
00:33:06
Arjun Vaidya: pick that up as well,
00:33:08
Arjun Vaidya: and second, people looking at the percentage of engagement, right?
00:33:10
Arjun Vaidya: I'm not an influencer. I'm not a creator. But when
00:33:13
Arjun Vaidya: I post something on instagram, at least 10% of my
00:33:15
Arjun Vaidya: audience engages in some way. That's a wild number, right?
00:33:19
Arjun Vaidya: If you can get people like this with this kind
00:33:21
Arjun Vaidya: of engagement and and these people also put in the effort, right?
00:33:25
Arjun Vaidya: And for my dad's business again, we chose a person
00:33:28
Arjun Vaidya: who had less than 10 followers. She was so excited
00:33:32
Arjun Vaidya: that we chose her that she paid for the shoot herself.
00:33:34
Arjun Vaidya: She paid for the shoot.
00:33:35
Arjun Vaidya: She was like, I'm so happy and I want to
00:33:37
Arjun Vaidya: do a shoot anyways and I'm enjoying it so
00:33:39
Arjun Vaidya: lovely. I'll
00:33:40
Saikat Pyne: manage it. So don't go for the followers. Guys just
00:33:43
Saikat Pyne: don't go for the followers. I'm not
00:33:44
Arjun Vaidya: saying don't go for the followers, but a nice mix
00:33:47
Arjun Vaidya: and think about more metrics and just follow than just
00:33:49
Saikat Pyne: follow account, right? Because, um
00:33:52
Saikat Pyne: and also, how do you come up with, um, references
00:33:56
Saikat Pyne: for creators who have the audience that you want? How
00:34:00
Saikat Pyne: do you come up with that?
00:34:01
Arjun Vaidya: How do you find who these creators? Yes.
00:34:03
Saikat Pyne: Yes, because some of them are still growing, and they
00:34:07
Saikat Pyne: have a very engaged community that might not show up
00:34:10
Saikat Pyne: on some of these creative market places or these places
00:34:12
Saikat Pyne: where you are striking this
00:34:13
Arjun Vaidya: partner. You got to look really deep.
00:34:15
Arjun Vaidya: Yeah, let's use the Discover feature on Instagram. You got
00:34:19
Arjun Vaidya: to use the similar feature on Instagram and you got
00:34:21
Arjun Vaidya: to go through that black hole and that I'll go
00:34:23
Arjun Vaidya: ahead to find these
00:34:24
Saikat Pyne: people. That's the brand person just keeping at it. Yeah,
00:34:28
Saikat Pyne: got it, Got it, Got it.
00:34:30
Saikat Pyne: The last thing that I wanted to touch upon would
00:34:33
Saikat Pyne: be community. I think every D two c brand is
00:34:37
Saikat Pyne: trying to create a
00:34:39
Arjun Vaidya: community,
00:34:40
Saikat Pyne: no clue. So let's decode community define community for a
00:34:44
Saikat Pyne: new D two c brand. What is What is community
00:34:47
Saikat Pyne: to
00:34:47
Arjun Vaidya: you? Yeah, I think community is not just a word.
00:34:50
Arjun Vaidya: It genuinely means community. And so it's a group of
00:34:53
Arjun Vaidya: engaged fans or customers who actually care about
00:34:57
Arjun Vaidya: What do you have to say that for me is community,
00:35:01
Arjun Vaidya: And so just your number of followers on Instagram is
00:35:02
Arjun Vaidya: not your community, because most of them never engage with
00:35:05
Arjun Vaidya: you again, right? They followed you by mistake for some
00:35:07
Arjun Vaidya: reason when they bought a product they haven't bought you
00:35:09
Arjun Vaidya: six months ago. They're not part of your community. The
00:35:11
Arjun Vaidya: guys who reply to your stories, the guys who participate
00:35:15
Arjun Vaidya: in the contest, the guys, the guys who reply to
00:35:17
Arjun Vaidya: your polls, the guys who buy your product on a
00:35:20
Arjun Vaidya: monthly basis. They are your community,
00:35:26
Arjun Vaidya: the girls who
00:35:28
Arjun Vaidya: are unhappy with your instagram post because it didn't fit
00:35:31
Arjun Vaidya: your brand. The girls who tell you your product wasn't
00:35:35
Arjun Vaidya: good enough and be expected better from you, the girls
00:35:38
Arjun Vaidya: who
00:35:40
Arjun Vaidya: actually give you genuine feedback when the order wasn't
00:35:44
Arjun Vaidya: received by them in the right manner without firing you,
00:35:48
Arjun Vaidya: yelling at you and putting a consumer court complaining against you.
00:35:51
Arjun Vaidya: This is your community. It's those engaged fans or super
00:35:55
Arjun Vaidya: fans who care about your brand and tell you whether
00:35:58
Arjun Vaidya: they are good or bad with No,
00:36:00
Saikat Pyne: Got it, got it, got it.
00:36:02
Saikat Pyne: What do you say to founders who say there's never
00:36:07
Saikat Pyne: going to be a bunch of people who are excited
00:36:09
Saikat Pyne: about buying shoes like you only buy shoes once every
00:36:12
Saikat Pyne: three years when those shoes, uh, sort of them, that's all.
00:36:18
Saikat Pyne: What do you what do you say
00:36:19
Arjun Vaidya: to that? I would say that when that moment of
00:36:22
Arjun Vaidya: truth comes once in three years, right, there will be
00:36:24
Arjun Vaidya: 30 options to choose from. For the customer,
00:36:27
Arjun Vaidya: there needs to be a reason they choose you over
00:36:28
Arjun Vaidya: everyone else. And that reason can't be price only right.
00:36:31
Arjun Vaidya: It shouldn't be just price. It can also be price.
00:36:35
Arjun Vaidya: One of the reasons can be price. But if the
00:36:36
Arjun Vaidya: reason is just price, you're in a dangerous space. Got it,
00:36:39
Arjun Vaidya: got
00:36:40
Saikat Pyne: it, got it. The other thing is customer delight. I
00:36:43
Saikat Pyne: think you've spoken about customer delight a lot. What is
00:36:46
Saikat Pyne: customer delight? You tell me that we're
00:36:48
Arjun Vaidya: giving a customer more than they expected. So they they
00:36:51
Arjun Vaidya: are in shock or in awe. And they can keep
00:36:55
Arjun Vaidya: talking about you, right? Right.
00:36:57
Arjun Vaidya: What is customer light for me? Customer light is when
00:37:01
Arjun Vaidya: I enter a restaurant and the waiter knows my name.
00:37:04
Arjun Vaidya: Customer delight for me is
00:37:07
Arjun Vaidya: yesterday when I was on my visa flight from from Delhi.
00:37:12
Arjun Vaidya: The guy announcing everything like where our plane was when
00:37:16
Arjun Vaidya: it was close to landing actually added some emotion and
00:37:20
Arjun Vaidya: expression when he was talking and it felt different from
00:37:23
Arjun Vaidya: all the times that I've heard customer light for me was, ah,
00:37:26
Arjun Vaidya: about the airport. Last Sunday, I went to the falafel counter.
00:37:30
Arjun Vaidya: I ordered some falafels and I went to give the
00:37:33
Arjun Vaidya: guy the money and he said, Eat first,
00:37:36
Arjun Vaidya: enjoy your food, then pay me.
00:37:39
Arjun Vaidya: That is customer. I'll never forget that. I'll never forget
00:37:42
Arjun Vaidya: that in a Q. S R chain in an airport,
00:37:45
Saikat Pyne: he could have run away with the falafel.
00:37:47
Arjun Vaidya: Technically, I mean, I was standing right next to the counter. Also.
00:37:50
Arjun Vaidya: He just said, I want you to enjoy your food.
00:37:54
Arjun Vaidya: That meant something to me. That's customer delight.
00:37:57
Saikat Pyne: It can't be a gift coupon with the 15% off. No,
00:37:59
Saikat Pyne: that's
00:38:00
Arjun Vaidya: transactional. Right? Customer Delight was me in October 2020 wishing
00:38:07
Arjun Vaidya: my top 500 customers individually for Diwali through a video
00:38:11
Arjun Vaidya: where we had a Diwali video. But the high
00:38:14
Arjun Vaidya: hi Arjun, I said 500 times. So each customer got
00:38:17
Arjun Vaidya: a personalised video. That's customer delight. Those people never get
00:38:20
Arjun Vaidya: that video. The founder of the company is saying their
00:38:22
Arjun Vaidya: name and sending them a video for the valley That's
00:38:24
Arjun Vaidya: more value than ₹5000 on my product Absolutely.
00:38:27
Saikat Pyne: Absolutely. So how do you, as a founder, come up
00:38:31
Saikat Pyne: with ways to deliver that customer? Delight the customer
00:38:35
Arjun Vaidya: shoes? Um, And if you are the customer, what would
00:38:37
Arjun Vaidya: you be impressed with or not expect?
00:38:40
Arjun Vaidya: That's me. If you don't have the answer, ask your customers.
00:38:43
Arjun Vaidya: Talk to people, talk to prospective customers. Talk to your friends.
00:38:45
Arjun Vaidya: They'll tell you. They'll tell you we're all customers.
00:38:49
Arjun Vaidya: We are all customers.
00:38:51
Saikat Pyne: Absolutely, absolutely. So put yourself in the customer's shoes, ask
00:38:55
Saikat Pyne: what they want, and if they want a specific thing,
00:38:58
Saikat Pyne: do it for them. Yeah, otherwise, just surprise them.
00:39:01
Arjun Vaidya: Absolutely
00:39:02
Saikat Pyne: love it. It was an honour to have you on
00:39:04
Saikat Pyne: the show. Yeah,
00:39:05
Arjun Vaidya: my pleasure. I think, Uh, I have been on many
00:39:07
Arjun Vaidya: conversations before, Uh, but we went really deep and actually
00:39:11
Arjun Vaidya: got me thinking about a lot of things in the
00:39:13
Arjun Vaidya: way I did things. So thank you for having me.
00:39:15
Arjun Vaidya: Um, I'm excited to hear what people have to think
00:39:17
Arjun Vaidya: about this conversation. Absolutely.
00:39:18
Saikat Pyne: I'll keep you posted. Those people are super vocal. Hopefully
00:39:21
Saikat Pyne: we don't get trolled now on YouTube as well. So, guys,
00:39:25
Saikat Pyne: that was a from three. And it was a pleasure
00:39:30
Saikat Pyne: having you on the show. Arjun, See you on the
00:39:33
Saikat Pyne: next episode of the U Incorporated guys. See ya.