Ep 5- The Dark Along The Ways

[00:00:01] Welcome to YouPodcast Presents, The Wheel Of Time Recap Show. I'm Asim Burney and I don't know anything about the books. I'm Sujoy. I've read up everything about the series except for the books. And I'm Amritha. I'm a super nerd who's read all the books.

[00:00:20] Hi and welcome to YouPodcast Presents, The Wheel Of Time Recap Show. My name is Asim Burney. I'm joined by my co-host Amritha and Sujoy. Hi, Amritha. Hi, Sujoy. Hi, Asim. Hi, Sujoy.

[00:00:35] We are discussing this episode, Episode 7 of The Wheel Of Time Show called The Dark Along The Ways. And this is Episode 5 of The Wheel Of Time Recap Show which doesn't make any sense but again that's the YouPodcast way, I would say.

[00:00:57] Where are we here? Okay. So just to kind of set up the rules for the new listeners, we're a spoiler fix show but we only spoil what's in the TV show. We don't spoil anything that happens later on in the books.

[00:01:11] Amritha is our book specialist and she will kind of help guide Sujoy and me through the ways, through the darkness here of understanding this show.

[00:01:21] I want to go first to Sujoy. Sujoy man, last week you were kind of, you know, you were not as excited about the show anymore. You were wondering, you were asking Amritha, is there going to be action? Is this going to pick up again?

[00:01:39] So I wanted to see whatever your general thoughts on Episode 7, The Dark Along The Ways. So I'm pretty shallow when it comes to shows like this, you know. I need the ruzzle-dazzle, the action and the death and gore and blood and action and everything.

[00:01:55] And this episode opened up with the, well, if you may allow me to make that joke, the best cold open because it's on snow. Oh, that's terrible. And I just straight away wrote Lankema. Lankema, Lankema or Lankema?

[00:02:19] No, no, no. Just because of the action I thought it would be Lankema. But yeah, this episode I titled it as everybody's channeling.

[00:02:32] It delivered all the goods that I wanted and I was even invested in, you know, the silent, more silent character moments that happen in the show. And it made me excited about the finale of the show, which is next episode.

[00:02:51] And I think if people are leading up to watch this on Christmas Eve, this episode does it right. So all that has been, you know, all the build up, all the filler material, all the more quieter moments that we have to sit through to get here.

[00:03:12] I think it's worth it just for this episode so far. On the basis of this episode, I think I am glad that I sat through all of that. I was watching this makeup competition show.

[00:03:25] Well, I wasn't my wife was watching this makeup competition show on Netflix and apparently Sujoy, you are a basic bitch. That's apparently. That's what you're saying basically.

[00:03:40] This was apparently the Sujoy told us this last time, I think that this was the episode that made Amazon Prime kind of green light the second season of, you know, the wheel of time. How was this episode for you?

[00:03:58] So I think, yeah, so it's funny because I saw episode six and I was immediately like, yeah, awesome is gonna like this episode. And I saw this episode from the cold open.

[00:04:07] And then I saw this episode, the cold open and I was like, yes, enjoy is gonna like this. This is how long we've known each other. But yeah, like what Sujoy was saying, like I feel like all the elements have finally come together.

[00:04:24] And we only have like one more episode left, which has quite a bit about the writing of the show basically because I feel like even here, you know, like even in this which is and other people have pointed this out as well that each successive episode of the show is better than the last one.

[00:04:44] Yeah. But even in this one, you can see whether writing is a little bit off.

[00:04:51] But I have to say like of all the episodes that we've seen so far, like this is the one in which I was flat out squealing away like from like, you know, the first like cold open shots from there on like the whole thing with shell.

[00:05:09] I mean, we'll talk about it in a bit. But like that was just amazing. It was exactly, it wasn't exactly how I'd pictured it, but it's a it came really close and then like all the stuff like the London and 90 things like, oh my God, like I was totally on board with that.

[00:05:27] So yeah, very happy, very happy.

[00:05:29] I'm also going to say that this is probably the episode that I will be looking forward to when I rewatch it. Like episode four, yes, but I'll definitely be rewatching it once all the episodes are out because I think that will be another just hold another level of enjoying this show, I think.

[00:05:47] And I'll be looking forward to this episode the most. Without Asim's name in giant letters. Yeah, exactly. Is my name getting bigger and bigger with this one like you will I was getting annoyed. I'm a narcissist, but I was getting annoyed at reading my name just watch. Yeah.

[00:06:09] I think I'm a little I have a little bit more criticism than you guys. I think I think the pacing issues for me were really bothering me in this episode, because it felt like you have these two big action sequences, and they're quite rushed generally

[00:06:27] they added they added almost like four very large parts of the stories in one episode and it felt cramped to me. And the other two issues that I've mentioned before is how Nineveh was written as a character bothered me a lot again.

[00:06:43] And I was like, maybe I need to go back to Episode One and figure out what her problem with Maureen exactly is because I've kind of forgotten and it just I was like, what is going on? Why is she still like that?

[00:06:54] And the other thing, the budget I think is annoying me a little bit too, but I think I want to get into it on the specific parts when you break down the show. So shall we get into the show a little bit? Yeah, what happened?

[00:07:09] So we see the we start with the cold open. We see that a pregnant woman is getting chased by a lot by soldiers when she is just about to be in labor. She fights of multiple foes before being fatally stabbed in the stomach.

[00:07:24] She is revealed later in the episode to be Rand's mother, the man who we thought was Rand's father was one of the soldiers her hunting her but has a change of heart seeing her about to give birth in the state that she's.

[00:07:40] I don't know if that's a spoiler maybe for later on but I felt you know in the summary. I mean, I don't think for me was a surprise that she was a Rand's mom. I think it was quite clear to me.

[00:07:53] I don't know if that was is that supposed to be a spoiler for you guys? Was that like a big reveal? So Joy, what about you? Did you I mean you see the red hair and I was like, yeah, that's right.

[00:08:03] It's also like we had foreshadowing of that because L'Oil was also talking about, you know, you don't look like people of two rivers and you're definitely I can't exactly remember what he said to Rand then but yeah, all the setup was obviously this is going to be of huge

[00:08:22] prominence and directly connect to the main character who obviously is Rand. Yeah, the pretty red hair boy. Yeah, it was fine.

[00:08:33] But the scene itself the cold open was I think so far we have had, you know, several introductions of people in the cold open and in, you know, even in the last episode we had Sue Ayn's introduction as a child and I think of all of them this is the best one.

[00:08:53] It was just the whole setting and the action sequence and the choreography and the impact of that scene how dense it was. Yeah, it just made like this episode stand out way more than any of the previous ones. Hmm.

[00:09:13] How I mean, how does this because this is a very visual scene in a way because the marsh does there's amazing martial arts in this like what probably the best something we were hoping we would see from Lana would say exactly and you know that's that's why you were making that joke earlier

[00:09:34] but this is like a very visual scene. How does it compare to what it was in the books? Is it is it this expansive? How or is it something that's added sometimes they add like a little, you know, action flare in an adaptation to get people hooked.

[00:09:50] How was this something that compared to the book? Yeah, so this is like one of the things of the book, not the book, but the show does really well.

[00:09:58] And I've remarked upon this multiple times where they take little bits of background information, and then they change that into this major like character scene. And I really enjoy it.

[00:10:11] So in the books, that whole scene in on the dragon mount is something that we hear from Tam, Rand's father within the first three chapters of the book. So because the book starts with the the Trollux attacking evens field.

[00:10:35] So when Tam is injured and Rand is bringing him into town. That's when Tam is like out of his mind and he's talking about like how he found Rand in the snow and his mother was lying in a pool of her own blood.

[00:10:52] And that's when we, you know, like we get the first hint that Rand is actually an adopted son of Tam and Carrie El Thor and that he's not like a native to reverse man and that he and then, you know, like all the other characters that ran meet subsequently out in the world

[00:11:09] think that he's an Isleman. And the way that you see Rand's mom being dressed in that cold open like that is something that you should keep in mind because it's meant to be like so the thing with the wheel of time as a series is that it's

[00:11:32] it takes inspiration from a lot of like established fantasy and science fiction classics. So there's a lot of stuff in here that is from a lot of the rings and then there's a lot of stuff in here that's from Dune, for example.

[00:11:48] And this is I don't know if you guys watched Dune when it came out earlier this year but this is sort of like the Isleman are sort of throw backs to the free men from the Dune books.

[00:12:02] You know, they're like people of the desert who've adapted to living there and have very like specific ways of dressing and behaving and a culture all of their own.

[00:12:13] So I'm guessing that they will probably do one of those side animated history bits on Prime Video for you know why everybody's so scared of the Isleman.

[00:12:28] But yeah, I think like it's a great establishing shot and it tells you quite a bit about Isle culture if you're paying attention to the way that she's fighting the fact that she was able to fight that many men

[00:12:42] and the reason why she ultimately fell is only because she was hugely pregnant and contract. So if she hadn't been in the middle of you know having contractions, she would have killed all of them. So yeah.

[00:12:57] Yeah, my reference points were for my reference points in my notes where Ravager rain Jaco in Force Awakens meets God.

[00:13:13] Yeah, I was like you know how much like how much ass would you know this woman kick if she was not like in labor giving birth you know like these men should be really really scared of her you know whatever pregnant kung fu she has it's pretty high up there man.

[00:13:30] But this was also the first like action sequence that I saw that was properly choreographed or at least was able to translate well visually on screen. Like there was a cleanliness to it and it was like a moment of awesome.

[00:13:45] Whereas so this is what I've been missing with all of Lawn's action sequences because Lawn is supposed to be what this woman is with the spears. He's supposed to be with a sword.

[00:13:56] You're supposed to be like watch him in action and be like wow that's like crazy but you know we haven't yet seen sadly.

[00:14:06] So like eight episodes of this show right in season one and I've gone and look at the IMDB page and each two episodes are directed by separate directors.

[00:14:15] So episode one and two is directed by somebody called Brissowitz and then episode three and four by somebody called Wayne Yip five and six by Sally Richardson with field and seven and eight by someone called Kiran Donnelly and seven and eight the director Kiran Donnelly.

[00:14:33] He's also directed episodes of Vikings. So I think that's where it kind of shows up. The other guys they are like Wayne Yip who directed episode three and four is going to direct four episodes of the LOTR series on Amazon. So that's yeah. Interesting, interesting. Yeah.

[00:14:57] And so Amrita you're saying this was this is not a big spoiler or reveal in the book.

[00:15:02] This is just like backstory and like the father character just says this to Rand very it's known or is it like like in the show they do want it to be a reveal right but more in the sense of what happens in the last few minutes of the show than that it is the Rand's mother right.

[00:15:20] So there are multiple layers to the revelation that Rand was born on the slopes of the Dragon Mount that he's not Tam's son that his mother was an aisle woman.

[00:15:34] But what kind of aisle woman like these are things that you're going to see as the series progresses or you should see as the series progresses because there are multiple levels of like what it all means and who that person was.

[00:15:50] And why he was born on Dragon Mount. Okay. Okay. Interesting. Let's move on to the next part of the show. We are we join our group which is you know, more rain land and the two river folk. Matt had left them behind in the last episode.

[00:16:12] They are in the ways. Loyal the Oger finds the first marker in the darkness of the ways to find that it has been damaged. While they are resting they are attacked by a Trollock, which is something that has seemingly never happened in the ways before.

[00:16:27] The one power is used to defend against the Trollock and this unleashes the machine machin chin. I don't I'm not 100% sure how to pronounce it. A dark force that hunts and kills in the ways, but also reveals your darkest thoughts.

[00:16:43] Nineveh unleashes her power protecting the group while more rain opens the ways to fall around the fortress city.

[00:16:51] A lot happen this is one of those moments where I felt the pacing was a bit off because this is like an entire movie in Lord of the Rings at least like you know an hour long. And this is like literally five minutes and a lot happens here.

[00:17:05] And I felt the pacing was a lot was too much was happening and it needed a bit more time to breathe.

[00:17:11] And the other issue that I also have is this is this I like the sequence, but it is really playing with that budget right like because they haven't spent that much money they can make this very scary because it's basically what Vin Diesel did in Pitch Black you know you can see anything.

[00:17:32] So anything that comes at you is scary. And here was it was kind of like bothering me that like you know with such a big canvas, they're still using these cheap kind of tricks. And when the world opens up every time it just becomes cheap CGI.

[00:17:51] And it was kind of like bothering me a little bit. What about you Amrita what did you think about the sequence?

[00:17:57] Oh yeah I absolutely agree like it's and it's not just the ways like so I was reading a couple of you know like reported pieces about the making of the show and the way that they were talking about the ways you know they were like oh we spent like a month shooting in the ways.

[00:18:14] I was like oh it must be like an extended sequence because there's quite a lot of stuff that happens in the ways you know.

[00:18:21] So I was like oh like that must be what's happening and no no no if it happened and instead you have that very like you know Ramsey Brothers kind of set.

[00:18:36] And then when we get out of the ways and we get to Faldara it looks like again like it looks like the empire that terrible show on Oddstar.

[00:18:50] It you know it's just very clearly like somebody's is printed out a banner or something and it's like yes that city over there like it's just it's that same thing like none of it looks like it's an actual place that's lived in like there's no texture to it.

[00:19:05] There's no grind like everything is just too it's too simplified and pristine and plastic and I don't like it.

[00:19:15] It also does not feel like this fortress city that can take on defenses like the way you know the king or whatever he is the person saying like he's super confident about his city and it just looks like a like a hut in the sand like it doesn't look good.

[00:19:31] It looks very very small and yeah that was bothering me specifically about Faldara but I think we'll get into that. So Joe what did you think about the sequence of the in the ways.

[00:19:43] Yeah it definitely reminded me of the minds of Maria from fellowship where Gandalf leads the Hobbits. But this was way too short as he said like we were in and the next minute we were out there. There was no.

[00:20:03] We weren't given enough you know time to enjoy and breathe during this that there was no real tension being built for the whole.

[00:20:14] You know using the power and everything that they needed to be more of this for me but obviously I was like finally something is happening and I enjoyed it while it last.

[00:20:26] Well I did like that sequence where they get attacked by the how do I say that machin chin is that Machin chin what Machin chin Machin chin yeah. Black wind.

[00:20:38] Yeah I did like that sequence although it's something that we've seen many many times before you know but yeah although I do have to say you know I was when we first saw the Trollex. I was unsure about the makeup and it kind of looked cheap.

[00:20:58] When you have like a single Trollex it really looks ridiculous. What was that movie we saw remember that anthology we saw Netflix with like horror stories ghost stories and there was there there was this one by Debaker Banerjee.

[00:21:19] Gotcha yeah I remember you know that's what the Trollex look like this wasn't a good look. I have one thing that I noticed.

[00:21:29] I don't know because in the previous episodes you know even when Moraine left the White Tower her hair was quite black right but once she emerged from the ways her hair suddenly turned quite brownish did you guys notice that. I like loose haired Moraine.

[00:21:51] I think it's a really cool look. I like this. I like the other way her hair looks in this one. Okay but I don't know if it's lighter. Is it lighter? I'm noticing it now that Sujoy has mentioned that. Like the hair shade like the hair color.

[00:22:09] Yeah yeah yeah yeah. Maybe she's just worn down while the bullshit Naineve is throwing. Yeah anything we're missing anything that was there in the books that they didn't cover in the show.

[00:22:25] I mean there's quite a bit but I think like for the world that they're creating like this is like because Matt is supposed to be in the ways with them so this is a completely different like it's a complete deviation from the books.

[00:22:39] So I don't know what's up with Matt and why she's sending the red Arja after him like they're not going to hurt him because he can't channel but you know I don't know.

[00:22:49] All right that was also yeah that happens later on right in Faldara okay yeah let's move on to Faldara.

[00:22:56] So once in Faldara we meet the king and escort the king is quite confident of his ability to defend his city until Moraine alerts him that the dark one is using the ways to transport his forces.

[00:23:09] She asked the king's sister to send a message to the red sisters to find Matt and the king's sister is she like a she tried to be part of the Isidae and she was rejected that's what yeah. Yeah she was too weak in the power.

[00:23:25] Right right right is that why her ring is doesn't have like a little thing in it okay okay. Yeah this was just seemed like not well made the whole sequence. What is Faldara supposed to be as a city?

[00:23:42] It's a border town so it's not supposed to be like a giant city so the size of it is actually quite correct but in the books like you know they when they arrive at Faldara they realize that there is like a lot of unrest going on in the world

[00:24:00] so there are like all these abandoned farm buildings and stuff and you know like people have clearly been attacked and they've been there's like a lot of refugees in the town.

[00:24:09] So there's like a lot of context about like why Faldara is important but yeah but I also I want to wait and see what they do with it in episode eight because there's like some other stuff that's happening so let's see.

[00:24:28] So Joy how does this the courtly intrigue work for you? It's alright. I'm not here to watch all this courtroom drama I'm here for the action and boy there are people who get some action in this episode. You're not here for the jabbing you're here for the stabbing.

[00:24:53] Literal and figurative. I'm written in the notes. Land gets some wasted. You're skipping ahead or does it happen here or no it happens. Yeah well it happens in Faldara right? Yeah okay okay.

[00:25:16] How are we supposed to understand like the kind of the relationship between the Isidai's and sister was there anything there more or more context with the king or I felt it was so rushed that they this maybe this should have been more.

[00:25:34] I don't know I was I felt I was missing something there. Yeah you are missing something there's supposed to be this entire sequence about Lan that they sort of like switched around and condensed again and I don't think it works.

[00:25:46] I think like Lan as we go on is probably the character who's being shortchanged the most because there's this entire story because he's from the Borderlands so when he comes into Faldara there's all these street scenes where people call him by name like everybody in the Borderlands knows his face.

[00:26:07] Like that's pretty integral to the story. That it's not just that he's famous amongst like royal people, but like the common people like everybody knows who he is in the Borderlands.

[00:26:21] And that's important to the story later on so yeah there's like quite a bit of like context about the Borderlands and about who Lan is to them that kind of gets you know like condensed into a couple of lines that he says to me.

[00:26:37] And then he leaves later on. I did like the conversation between Morene and the King's sister I'm blanking on the name. I don't know if that was a big character in your book or not.

[00:26:52] No, because you know she's like, she wants to tell what happened but she the King's sister is like you know my allegiance lies to the city I just like I just like that you know she was setting the lines with more. Let's move on.

[00:27:09] Unless I'm missing anything. No, I think we're good. Good. No. Yeah. Yeah. The group goes to a tavern in the city where more in meets a bartender called men who sees the future and also visions around people.

[00:27:25] She looks at the group at from the two rivers folk. She sees the wolf in Perrin. She sees Rand carrying a baby. She also sees that the whole group is connected.

[00:27:38] Morene is told that the Amalyn seat is going to be her downfall, but men cannot confirm at this moment who the dragon is. I liked men. I like that. I like that actress. I like that whole. I like the sequence.

[00:27:56] Yeah, a lot of tavern things happening right. I mean, I was just about to say everybody's going to the pub here. Yeah, there's a lot of tavern things happening here.

[00:28:05] Yeah. I mean, is there much to say about what happens here? I feel it's important and I liked it, but I don't know if I think the show kind of gives us good context about what's happening here, right? Yeah. Yeah. For once they did a good job.

[00:28:23] She did also not see much in Egwin, right? If I'm not mistaken, like Egwin is, Egwine is it Egwine or Egwine? Egwine.

[00:28:37] And even I was surprised that she didn't see much in Nineveh. We've seen already that she holds a very large power, but Min didn't really talk about that too much, right? I mean, we'll come back to it later.

[00:28:54] Okay. Okay. So Min is not being fully transparent with Morene or? I mean, as we find out later on, you know, when like Ran goes to see her, there's that entire conversation and it's pretty clear that she's not telling Morene everything that she sees. Yeah. Okay.

[00:29:12] So Morene puts the choice in front of the group to join her to the eye of the world to face the dark one. She also tells them that if they are, if one of them is not the dragon, they will face certain death.

[00:29:25] So basically three out of four in the group will die, but they still have to come along with her to save the world.

[00:29:31] There is an argument between the group and Nineveh seems to slip. Let's slip that Perrin has feelings for Egwine which came out a total left field. And I'm not even 100% sure I understand what was happening here. Amrita, can you explain a little bit because I was lost here?

[00:29:51] I have no idea. Like Perrin thinks of Egwine as his little sister so I have like zero idea like where this whole like romantic interest shit came from. Like I have no idea.

[00:30:06] It was so confusing. It was so confusing. I didn't understand what was going on and again, like it's always the same dynamic about like, Sujoo, do you understand this dynamic of Nineveh not trusting Moraine?

[00:30:25] Well, initially I just thought that it's just Nineveh having some sort of trust issues with the Isidae because of how her long story about somebody from her background or something applied for the Isidae University and did not get approved. No funding.

[00:30:48] Yeah, she did not get the scholarship program but then She really pissed off about that apparently. I just don't know why at this moment. She just looks like a very angry teenager without you know exactly, you know, she's just angry without any rhyme or reason.

[00:31:08] She's just, you know, she's angry because she is. Yeah, and I don't know if that sort of pays off in some way because you know, in some future episode Moraine turns out to be this not very trustworthy character.

[00:31:21] I hope that pays out in her favor but other than that no, I really don't know what's her deal. And also Ran kind of says to Aguin, you never liked Matt which I guess I get because I've literally never seen Aguin and Matt together like in the show.

[00:31:38] Are they even friends? I don't know. I mean when we saw them at their village, I'm not sure if I even ever saw them together or you know sharing a laugh or anything like that but it was like really weird dynamics between all of them

[00:31:54] and I didn't understand any of it. I was like also like parents doubt to follow Moraine. I was like dude, you're quite a long way with her now. What is now the moment to you know change track or add another layer of doubt here?

[00:32:09] I didn't understand that part. Also is parent now a vegetarian? Is he like following the Leafs or what is there was some kind of leaf? Yeah, is he now a Buddhist? Is that what's happening?

[00:32:24] No the way of the leaf is the thing that the two of them tell him it's a peaceful way of living your life. Yeah, so he was just talking about that but I don't think he himself is a vegetarian.

[00:32:36] Ah okay because I thought in Tavern they were making fun of him. I thought he was maybe now following the way of the leaf or something like that. But yeah very confusing writing here, I don't know.

[00:32:51] Yeah, is there anything else between Moraine and Naineve that I'm missing Amrita because it's really about the scholarship? That's it?

[00:32:59] Okay, once we see episode 8, I think I'll tell you a little bit but like right now I don't know if they're going to do anything with that in episode 8. So we'll wait and see. Okay, okay. Shall we then move on I guess?

[00:33:19] Naineve follows Lan and finds that his family or relative lives in Faldara and they have dinner together with the family. And it is revealed that Lan is actually a prince of Malkir I think and who was saved as a baby by the people we think is his family.

[00:33:44] So he is a prince without a kingdom, Naineve and Lan make sweet sweet love and a paki Lan keeps his headband on while they're doing the deed. So yeah. You know why? Why? Because he's wearing some protection. Ah! Good on Lan, good on Lan. Yes, so yeah.

[00:34:18] Lots of reveals here I guess and I think that's what you were mentioning Amrita right? That everybody like Lan is more important than the show has made out to be right? That's what the sequence is supposed to tell us?

[00:34:34] He is much more important like he is actually one of the main characters. He has a big role to play in Ran's life, in Naineve's life and all of them actually are connected in one way or the other to Lan.

[00:34:49] And he's there till the end so yeah the show is actually doing a good job in some ways in explaining who he is.

[00:34:59] But like I said it's all too condensed when you think about the fact that he's a main character and he's not being given enough space in my opinion. So yeah. Yeah what else, I'm trying to think what else I'm kind of feeling here.

[00:35:21] The actor is quite buff though. Daniel Henney is a snack. I mean so in the books it takes a little bit longer for, there's like a lot of like slow burn and yearning. Until it takes his top off. That doesn't happen until like way down the line.

[00:35:43] So you know way I'm a little bit sad that we don't get to see, like I was waiting for like Lan to be all like yearning and you know soulful. Because in the books he's also a bit of a poet like he's an unexpected poet.

[00:35:58] But this Lan is just like yep let's bang you know. So I don't know like on the one hand I was like squealing away because I was like oh my god like Lan and Naineve are like two of my top ships.

[00:36:14] So I was like oh I'm really happy to see them get together but also I kind of thought that they would wait a little bit so I don't know.

[00:36:24] What I also liked is you know that Naineve is the one pursuing Lan and I think it makes sense the way the world is built up and they don't make a big deal about it.

[00:36:37] You know like this is really a world where women hold the power so it also makes sense that you know Naineve is the one pursuing Lan. So I think that was kind of like subtly in there and I like that.

[00:36:55] And also like Morene is pretty you know six positive she's like yeah go do your thing with Naineve you know that's also a thing.

[00:37:03] So it's like really like one sided hate from Naineve and I was even wondering like is she you know banging Lan to you know annoy Morene. Is this like a subtle way of you know I got your order you know that kind of thing.

[00:37:20] Oh one more thing that also happened and I didn't mention it that on the way to the tavern Perrin also thinks he sees the peddler from back in their town. And they show the yeah and they also show the peddler in the recap of the episode.

[00:37:38] Yeah so I don't know if that would amount to anything. Yeah that was I don't know. Amrita is that important. Is that something that we should like put a pin in? Yes. Right okay because he managed to survive the Trollux. Yep. Amrita cannot say she's holding her tongue.

[00:38:02] I plead the fifth. Also I was like you know like you know when Naineve is following Lan when he's having dinner and like he senses somebody is out there and then he just suddenly appears in front of Naineve.

[00:38:20] Like there's either like either he can you know disintegrate and appear somewhere or he had to sneak out of the window. Like there's like there's only two ways to do that right.

[00:38:32] And it was just like funny to me and it's just funny because we have not seen anything that Lan does be awesome at the moment so just kind of stupid. I was like wait what happened.

[00:38:45] You know there's this little comic of Batman where they show you all the things Batman is doing that's not in the comics you know that he has to sneak back and he has to you know hang on the cliff and all these kind of ridiculous things to make him look awesome.

[00:39:01] And I was like imagine this Lan having to do that you know just creep behind Naineve and like hey I'm standing here. Oh God. Anything else we're missing here.

[00:39:15] Do we know a little bit more about Malch here this is the first time we're hearing about this right and he does say that it's a kingdom that's been destroyed by the blight which we see later on in the show. Yeah.

[00:39:31] I mean we're at the final bits of the episode here. It is revealed that a Rand is the dragon. I'm not entirely sure how it's revealed like it's he's crying.

[00:39:46] No like Rand goes to see like Rand starts remembering all the times that he's channeled basically that's what you're seeing.

[00:39:53] So he you know like for example in the ways when the trollocus pushed off the path everyone thinks that it was and even a green things that she was the one who did it. But it wasn't a mean it was actually Rand who pushed the trolloc away. Right.

[00:40:12] So there's been like all these little things that he's been doing that everyone things was just coincidence or maybe somebody else did it but it's actually it was like Agatha all along it was Rand all along. Yeah.

[00:40:25] So and then he remembers like you know basically it's that scene of Tam telling Rand about finding him as a baby when he's half out of his mind with the pain and the fever from after the trolloc attacks. So that's what he's remembering.

[00:40:42] And that's what drives him to go see men at the tavern. And that's when we understand that men was actually holding back quite a few things from Maureen and she wasn't being entirely truthful when she was like yeah I only see like these things.

[00:41:01] And yeah and it's also like a nice little connection between her and Tam Al Thor which was very nice I thought. So how does Min know Tam Al Thor?

[00:41:17] So she says that she the very first time she saw so the thing that okay so in the wheel of time the reason why it's called the wheel of time is because it's literally a spinning wheel.

[00:41:30] It's that concept and then it spins out these threads and the threads form the world but also each other's like fortunes. Like that's the concept. So what Min does is that she sees pieces of the tapestry that is being spun by the wheel of time.

[00:41:53] So she can see when somebody is important to the pattern that is being woven in each age. And she can see how they fit into like a jigsaw puzzle. She can see how they fit into certain things.

[00:42:07] She doesn't always know how it fits or like what it means because she can't see the entire pattern but she can tell when somebody is important or you know like glimpses of their future.

[00:42:21] And it's not like it's obviously it's not like you know go here you'll find the gold you know and X marks a spot it's not like that.

[00:42:30] But for example like when she sees Rand with the baby you know like that's him as a baby and that's like her his dad finding him as a baby like that kind of a thing.

[00:42:42] So yeah so apparently the first time that she saw somebody as a child and she saw what happened to them as a you know as part of the pattern was actually Tamil Thor when he had just rescued Rand from his mom.

[00:42:58] And so apparently in this version men grew up in Tavelon and obviously after the Isle War like after they fought on the dragon, Dragon Mount I guess the Kair Hainian soldiers came down into Tavelon for you know to rest up or for healing and stuff.

[00:43:18] And that's when she must have seen Tam with baby Rand. Hmm.

[00:43:26] Because also like he seems like so the what I also didn't understand is because we we see the reveal that Rand remembers these things but then he also seems to know about his mother which I was like he was a baby so how would he know this and how would he have seen you know the White Tower right?

[00:43:48] He didn't know about his mother but he knew that he was born on the Dragon Mount to a woman who died there because that's what Tam tells him when he's out of his mind with fever.

[00:43:59] Oh right, right, right, right, yeah that was I couldn't hear really well what was going on there. Okay, okay, okay. Yeah, I was didn't I predicted really really early that Rand was the dragon.

[00:44:14] I mean this this like the show later on really heavy like there was I mean there was no there was not a moment in my mind that I thought Matt was the dragon like there was no way you know so I don't know it was like I think the show makes it out to be maybe a big deal.

[00:44:35] Although I don't know, I do think the show makes it out to be a big deal for Rand coming to that understanding but maybe it's not such a big deal for us as a viewers because I think we've all figured it out right. I mean you should have.

[00:44:49] Yeah, yeah, you should have if you've ever seen a movie then you should have been able to figure it out. Yeah. Yeah, what else and yeah I think then he he basically goes in finds more rain.

[00:45:07] While the group is having a discussion that you know who should leave who shouldn't leave to to the eye of the world and more and more and Rand have just left basically on their own, which is a big kind of like thing for land also right

[00:45:26] because she what does he say she's broken the bond or something like that. She's yeah she's masked her bond like the way she did when she went to see Suan basically you know she can hide her feelings and her location from from long. Right, right.

[00:45:44] And this was another sequence where again the like the where does the budget go because when they're walking through the blight it really looks like a pantomime set to me.

[00:45:57] Yeah, and then it's always like pantomime set really cheap looking with the actors trying to act like this is like a scary place and then usually a very expansive CGI shot that looks terrible also from you know like like a drone shot.

[00:46:12] And that's how they are showing the blight and it almost felt like you know back in the 70s you used to have those Ray Harryhausen movies like Sinbad and stuff like that. That's what it felt like instead of like clay nation we have CGI.

[00:46:26] It's kind of like sad that this is the like the final note of this episode which is kind of started really well and then just kind of like gives us less and less at as far as it goes.

[00:46:39] So that's why I was like not as hyped as you know so joy you were at the start of it because I felt it start really strong and then a lot of things like the pacing, the conversation between the group which is really like you know that love triangle that comes in there.

[00:46:54] Nine Eve being Nine Eve. I felt there was a lot of shortcuts taken in the story. That's why kind of like at the end it should the episode kind of teeters off for me like it.

[00:47:06] I mean I I recognize all the same flaws as you did but like for me like this is one of the strongest episodes that we've seen us yet.

[00:47:14] I mean and I think like that might be just me being a book reader and I mean there's so many things that are different about this the way the Faldare set up the way the blight looks the weird thing with like Peran and Iguine.

[00:47:29] I have no idea where half these things are going like what are they going to do with Matt I have no idea.

[00:47:34] But I also think at the same time and also like what Maureen said about Matt and how there's inherent darkness in him and the dagger was feeding off him and he was feeding off the dagger like that was like what what is happening so I don't know exactly where the show is going.

[00:47:53] I think it was like 50% of the stuff is like absolutely new to me but I think I think like it's a very successful fanfare of the Wheel of Time series and I don't know I enjoy that. No, I did enjoy it. I did enjoy it.

[00:48:11] But I think I'm coming off of an episode before this that I didn't really like.

[00:48:16] And it starts really well but then the same issues that I've had before with the shows kind of come up again so that's like I'm really excited for the next episode though I really want to see where they where they kind of you know where they end up.

[00:48:30] And again I do like that the group gets separated. I don't know I just like it and I also am kind of excited to see a Maureen ran team up like I think that's like a combo that I think could work.

[00:48:45] I don't know. I'm kind of excited for that. Whatever you said, are you excited for the final episode this got you back in? Yes, I mean I've been here so you know, I started to finish kind of G.

[00:49:00] But yeah, I think you know, average TV is usually usually you know shit but this is better than average TV so I'll take it.

[00:49:12] But also it's something you know to be part of the cultural conversation that people are having and I think I'm happy to have this conversation with you guys otherwise I probably not have been watching Wheel of Time.

[00:49:26] It was definitely not on my radar and now that I've invested you know, seven whole hours of you know watch time and I'll be rewatching it again. Yeah, I am definitely excited to see how the story ends for season one.

[00:49:42] I think like online there's a lot of chatter about you know fans review bombing it and how it could be you know it could result in the cancellation of the series because we've just seen what fans have done to Cowboy Bevo, which I thought was as an anime adaptation is obviously weak but as an independent show I think it really worked for me.

[00:50:08] And like often fans, I think fan culture and fandom.

[00:50:14] We have had this conversation about how they can you know be so toxic about you know gatekeeping and saying how the text is so holy and you have to you know adaptations have to follow it you know word by word.

[00:50:30] But I don't think TV series do work that way and I think I don't know what do you think Amrita? Well, I also have heard all of this about like fans review bombing it and I don't think they're fans actually.

[00:50:45] I think like I think that's a narrative that's building in the press because the press is being like people who don't know the series or the community whatsoever.

[00:50:56] So you know there's a narrative that's building on social media and the press is just reporting on it as if it's fact but in actual fact like because I went on Twitter the other day and I was reading all these things about like how people hate the wheel of time because it's too woke.

[00:51:15] So I actually looked up like wheel of time woke and it's literally a bunch of people who have either never read the books or else don't remember or have understand like basic English because the things that they are mad about are things that are from the books.

[00:51:34] Like they're not even mad about like things that the show is inventing. They're mad about things that are there in the books already you know like the fact that Moraine and Swain have a relationship like that is canon like that's that was something that Jordan explicitly wrote about.

[00:51:54] So I don't know what people are talking about. I when I was kind of looking into it too I felt actually the fans are quite happy that there is an adaptation of the wheel of time that they're quite positive.

[00:52:06] I mean I just I don't go into it too deep because I feel like it spoiled quite easily but I I feel there's a Reddit community which is negative or you know a rotten tomatoes kind but the fans of the book itself like a bit I feel are really kind of happy that that you know this show is out and I don't think that's

[00:52:26] there was any hope that the show would ever come out you know so I don't know.

[00:52:30] Definitely I think what you're saying Amrita there's definitely a difference and a disconnect there between what's kind of the narrative that's being presented which is I seem I mean this happens a lot right like the press picks up on things and want to make it more of a kind of a talking point than it is.

[00:52:49] I don't know it's still I mean it's still we have criticism but I do enjoy the show I'm really looking forward to what's going to happen next and honestly also I have no idea what's going to happen.

[00:53:02] I don't know where this these characters will end up at the end of the next episode so that's kind of exciting.

[00:53:09] I don't know Amrita is there anything you can say that you without spoiling anything about what you think might happen or maybe you should have that conversation on the next episode that you could maybe give us a little bit more like a spoiler section or something like that about what might happen in the next season.

[00:53:29] Any random thoughts on the episode anything Sujoy that you kind of still had in your nose that you want to talk about. What anymore dad jokes. You know if there's anybody that loves a dad joke it's me.

[00:53:44] Who's I think it was men who said to more and she's going to be your dawnfall about. And I wrote this is so. This is so. She's her father. Basically, is that pretty much. She's her father. Basically, is that pretty much. Amrita, any random thoughts.

[00:54:09] I thought Sujoy was going to make like a joke about the fact that more inside get down on your knees with the downfall thing.

[00:54:20] Did you guys also notice when like they're coming into Faldara and there's like all of these guards coming and there's like an Indian guard clearly. And for a moment I thought like, you know the they would say hi by saying you know.

[00:54:35] That would be like the official greeting of Faldara. That's how my brain works. Welcome to Asim's brain. Yeah. Great. One more episode. It's going to be on Christmas Eve. So I don't know how and when we can, you know, record and review it.

[00:55:00] But I think we're all excited about it. For the people that have found us on this episode and have thoughts, drop us an email at you podcasting at gmail.com. And yeah, I'm with our working people find you online. You can find me on Twitter at Amrita. Sujoy.

[00:55:18] I'm in Twitter at 93 K. I'm at Asim Bernie. You can follow us on your podcasting at gmail.com. We've created a little playlist where you can listen to the stories of the people who are watching this episode. We'll be back with one episode before the season ends.

[00:55:36] Thanks for listening.