What the Coaching Industry Doesn’t Tell You | Akilesh on Money, AI & Inner Work

[00:00:00] A Tangible Certificate is great, putting it in your drawers is great, but is it going to monetize? It is going to give me a livelihood. But in my opinion, there is a lot of lack of alignment in terms of people claiming to help you make 10 lakhs in a month or $10,000 in a six month or whatever it is. So many people lead with that.

[00:00:28] So I said, give me anything, you know, like I'll do anything. Just let me in and let me work with you guys. And after a month or so, you tell me if you want to hire me. You don't have to pay me anything. So what I've seen is, you know, they've built their reputation, their credibility, their authority with titles and designations and their numbers and outcomes. Right. But when you step into a coaching business, all of these things fall away. Does it need to fall away?

[00:00:55] It is no longer enough to just learn a few coaching skills or get a certification because the basic level of coaching, which is goal setting and stuff like that. Yeah. AI can do so much easily, you know, like make a plan and make an action plan and stuff like that. Why can't a person do it themselves? It's called self-reflection. Yeah. Or it's called pausing. Yeah. And those are different modalities one can take.

[00:01:38] Welcome Akhi. Thank you Shailja. So Akhi, we both have been working in the fields of growth, right? You've been working towards growth of coaches. Mm-hmm. And I've been working towards growth of leaders. But growth per se doesn't mean that it's a journey of becoming. Mm-hmm. Right. So today is largely about Akhi the coach. Okay. And becoming Akhi the coach. Okay. And what led to it. Okay. Mm-hmm.

[00:02:05] Before we get into frameworks, conversations, we have a small ritual in which I'll give you three keys. Okay. They're called the unstoppable keys. Okay. And you just have to unlock by giving us the answer. Okay. Should we? Okay. Okay. Yeah. So what belief did you have to dismantle to build the real authority? That I am good enough. What part of you needed the most coaching? To improve my relationship with money because I didn't grow up with a healthy relationship with money.

[00:02:34] So to ask for the fee that I want to charge in my business, that required a lot of work. And that's the space you're working in now. One of the spaces. One of the space. When do you feel most aligned and not successful, not visible but internally aligned? When I'm on stage. Because I love speaking and presenting. Mm-hmm. I feel like there is a download happening from the universe. And I feel all of us have something that's natural to us. And speaking and presenting is that for me.

[00:03:03] Okay. Okay. So we'll just go back a little, right? So we want to start where... Just take us back in the timeline. The closest you can remember. Where you felt that you felt that you would be good on stage one day. What was that moment? Yeah. In your childhood, teenage? Yeah. So this is what happened in 2013. Okay. 2014. So I went to Dubai for the first time.

[00:03:33] I went abroad at that time. So a couple of years before that, this was during my university days. So a couple of years before that, me and my friends had done a project. I did mechanical engineering, but that's only on paper. So during the engineering days, we had done a project and won a national award and all that. So we got a chance to present that in our conference in Dubai. So at that time, I didn't really have the belief or the feeling that I want to become a speaker.

[00:03:59] The only thing I was attracted to was traveling and I wanted to go abroad, you know, see Dubai and all that. So I remember being on stage with one of my friends as well. We were presenting together and we didn't have any expectations. We just did what we felt most aligned with. And we came back. And a couple of weeks after we came back, I got a message from the organizer of the conference that they presented. And the subject line was, congratulations, you won the best paper award.

[00:04:28] And this was the first significant achievement in my life. I had never had a trophy or an A plus or anything like that growing up in school or university. So we had a recording of the presentation as well. And when we showed that to my professors and the classmates and some people, some other people, many of them said that I do have a natural gift in presenting.

[00:04:52] And this was the first time that I felt internally, okay, there is something in here. There is something that I really enjoy and seems to be coming naturally without me having to study or force something. Okay. Okay. So we just, we just going to like unpack this a little bit. Yeah. Just for my understanding. Even before you realize that, okay, you have a gift of the gab, you can, you have power over words,

[00:05:22] you can control the audience and connect with them. Um, what was really happening in, in your childhood? Because that seems to be a complete blur and a blank. So I just want to go a little back and say, well, was Aki always this confident, this fluent? Not at all. Yeah. So let's talk a little about that. Yeah. Uh, let me speak about my family situation, right? Yes, please.

[00:05:46] So I have an older sister, five years older to me, and, uh, she was the ideal student of the teachers, you know, like one of the top, uh, three students in the class all the time. Uh, all the teachers had really good things to say about her, all the studios, doing homeworks and stuff like that. And I'm the exact opposite. Okay. So from a really young age, I understood something is wrong with society and the education system as a whole,

[00:06:11] because I felt if someone is good or not, judging their capacity just by the grades or how well they do in school, that just didn't sit well with me. Okay. But there was no validation to that. I didn't have anybody to support my view on this, but I just felt something is off with this, right? Mm-hmm . And I, this obviously, as you can imagine, my parents and the teachers, to a large extent, always compared me with my sister.

[00:06:40] So that created a lot of limiting beliefs and self-doubt and things like that. Mm-hmm . And this carried on to university college days as well. And in fact, we did have a class on corporate industry relations, which is mainly your appearance, your public speaking and stuff like that. And I didn't really do well during those classes because it felt very controlled and structured. And there was no, there was no meaning behind it. It felt very mechanical to me. Mm-hmm . And...

[00:07:09] It was, it was very performative. Yeah, it was performative. It was for an outcome which is already decided. Exactly. But not relevant for you. Yeah. And they never emphasized on understanding who you are, what your strengths are. It was almost like, okay, say this thing, you know, use this technique to do this, stuff like that. Right? So I didn't really have any sort of self-confidence and I didn't really have a good opinion about myself until the Dubai thing happened.

[00:07:33] So that's where, like I said before, for the first time I felt myself, there is something in here. There's something that excites me. And this something that excites me seems to be relevant in the real world. Mm-hmm . So that's when the confidence really shifted. Um, and I'm not saying that that was a switch. Obviously, I had to do a lot of work, still continue to do that. Okay, so we just pause at this point. Yeah. When you said that you had to do a lot of work. Mm-hmm . And comparisons were being made. Yeah.

[00:08:04] Inside, you knew your world is programmed differently or it is evolving to look at life differently. Mm-hmm . And not through labels. And not through titles. But you wanted to be understood by others in the world in the way you were looking at the world. Yeah. Right? So there was a mismatch. There was a gap. Yeah. So how are you trying to fill that gap in your relationships or conversation interactions with the world outside? I guess it's a pretty deep question.

[00:08:32] I feel there are many layers to it, Shalja. Um, couple of things I can think about to talk about in this conversation. I think the first thing in my opinion is to be in alignment with where our energy naturally flows. Mm-hmm . So when you talk about alignment and leadership and all this, I think energy is a huge part of it, right? Yeah. Because we are all energy, um, beneath how we look and, you know, the body structure, etc.

[00:09:02] So for me, um, in my opinion, the first thing was to really identify where my energy naturally flows. And I was always excited about being helpful to others, you know, doing something that makes some kind of difference. Mm-hmm . And helps the other person in some way. Okay. And when I first had these feelings, there was nobody in my network, nobody in the family or the friends or the immediate, uh, network who was doing something that was to help people. Okay.

[00:09:30] They all were doing certain roles, fulfilling certain responsibilities to make money, you know, pay their bills, stuff like that. So this in my opinion was a first, first step to really understand where my energy naturally flows. Okay. How did it manifest? The speaking thing was... The speaking thing was one of them. That was one, one dramatic moment. Helping people or helping... Yeah. Exactly. So that, that was one dramatic moment. Okay. Um, and I, for the first time I saw other people who were part of a profession as a speaker,

[00:10:00] presenter, et cetera, which is making a difference to other people's lives. And they were making really good money with it as well. Okay. And the second part of it, in my opinion, is to have a network of people who are in similar professions. Um, and when you see there are other people already have done something along the lines of what you want to do. I feel like that kind of reinforces, um, your desire, your belief, your belief in wanting to do something similar. Okay.

[00:10:27] So, um, I'm, I'm still curious and I'm still trying to understand that, um, till the moment, that moment which happened in Dubai. Right. There was obviously a bit of self-work which you were investing in. And that self-work was coming through recognition of some energy, understanding of energy, because you were young, very young at that time. I would assume. I like to think I'm still young. Yeah. You look very young.

[00:10:54] So, uh, so that entire understanding of energy, I need to channelize in certain forums, forums, which sort of, you know, sink in well with me and resonate with me. I mean, that's a lot from a very young mind. Right. Where did that come from? Honestly, I don't know. Or, um, I don't have the words to explain it, to be very honest. But one thing, I think this is the most sensible answer that I could talk about.

[00:11:23] Um, that I always felt we shouldn't do anything just because others are doing it. Or we shouldn't blindly follow somebody just because someone has succeeded in a certain path or a certain career. So I think that for me was the driving force to not blindly follow other people or not to blindly follow a path.

[00:11:48] And, um, perhaps one more thing is people talk a lot about passion, right? I think curiosity is more important than passion. Okay. Because I was always curious to find, is there something else? You know, like that is beyond what people are doing, uh, the careers that people are going into. And I always asked, like, do I really want to do it? Why should I do it? I think that, that for me was the driving factor. I would say. Interesting. Yeah. I've never thought about this, but, uh, it's the first time I'm talking about this. Okay. Yeah.

[00:12:18] Very interesting because if you look at the pattern, right? Like I'm just trying to pick up that you were being compared to your sister. Yeah. She was, she was that, that atypical, uh, performer, uh, tick marks on a lot of aspects. And then you said, okay, I know I have something going on in the back of my mind, which got validated at Dubai. Again, what I'm getting to, and I'm trying to understand is that the way you were looking at life was very different. Hence your choices were very different.

[00:12:46] You know, where a lot of people would want to fall into, uh, definitions, follow the herd, follow tried and tested path. You know, even if they'll fail and they'll fall down, they'll say, okay, let me stick to it. Yeah. Right. Uh, let me stick to it. And you, you didn't choose all of that. You said, it's me, you know, I, maybe there's something else, something more. So that thought, did it evolve a period of time or was it, you are not, you were not even aware of it.

[00:13:15] And now you're talking sitting today, when you're reflecting back, you're talking about it in retrospect. Now, I think I have the words to talk about it, but I don't think at that time I had the vocabulary to explain what was going on. Um, but if I look back at that time, I think the biggest thing for me was to not conform to authority in the sense that, you know, like not following others just because they're asking you to do so.

[00:13:52] Okay. Um, and sometimes I say this to my closest friends that if I had the level of self-awareness I have now at that time, I would probably never complete school. Probably I would have left home or college and at school all that and wandered out somewhere and then, you know, uh, like experience life at that in that, um, stage. But now it's a little different.

[00:14:17] I think for me that that was the biggest thing, like not wanting to conform to other people's voices and, and how they've experienced life because something I understood inherently was everything that we use now, right? This cup that in front of you, the mic, the chair, everything, it's somebody else's interest. It's somebody else's action, somebody else's belief in a certain things that has manifested and now you're using it. Right.

[00:14:45] So I understood this, like everything that we use, it's somebody else's construct construct. It's somebody else's, um, following through of their passion. So I thought if other people can create it, maybe I can, at least I want to try. Right. So I did not want to fall into that category. And this, I think that was the only thing at that point in time that I could clearly remember.

[00:15:07] I didn't have words like, you know, influence or alignment and energy and all that at the time, but it's just a desire to not conform to other people's opinion blindly. Okay. And, uh, at that time when you didn't know the words to define it, what was the price you were paying? Did it cost you anything in relationship? Oh yeah. Or anything else? Uh, constant, I would say, um, arguments of some sorts with my parents.

[00:15:36] And, uh, not having the label of a good boy, but I guess I got okay with it over time because from really young age, right? I had this thing. I was super mischievous and very notorious. I used to live in Bihar, uh, at the time Bihar. Now it's Jharkana and Bihar, right? So my dad worked in Canada Bank. So we used to live in Jamshirpur for a couple of years, my first two years of my life. And I even have a nickname Bihar Gunda.

[00:16:02] So I guess I was okay with not having a really good opinion amongst people at the time. Yeah. Um, I guess that became okay with me. Um, looking back, I would realize, I would think that that was the biggest thing in this context for me. Like I was okay with not having a good opinion amongst people, but I wanted to figure out what I really wanted to do.

[00:16:27] Just a year after Dubai, right? Um, I finished my graduation in 2014 and I did my, um, joined my Mtech. And seven, eight months into my Mtech, I realized this is a waste of my time and my dad's money because he was still supporting me at the time. And I dropped out. This was, this can be a story within a story, but I did drop out. And this was another really low moment, uh, in my journey, because again, I'm, I'm in the same, uh, place, right?

[00:16:55] Because when Dubai happened, everybody were happy and they were appreciating me and stuff like that. And then I made the decision to quit Mtech midway. And again, you get attached with the same labels. Okay. You know, this guy's going to ruin his career. Nobody's going to hire you, hire me and stuff like that. Um, so the reason I'm talking about this is because it's like after a spike, I had a dip again, um, internally as well as externally.

[00:17:24] And 2016, um, in between I had worked in a call center, a few things happened. And then before I left with Thailand and I wanted to be an English teacher and I got the job in this company in Bangkok. So talking about the fundamentals, I would say there are a couple of things which I could draw from the Dubai experience that I kind of translated to my job in Thailand. So the first thing was, um, with the company. Sorry, before you go on. Yeah. I'm still at the point where the dip happened. Huh.

[00:17:53] Right. So how did you collect yourself back again? Well, I thought I can't stop. Okay. I have to do something. Right. Um, so I tried a few different things. In fact, I did a program called TEFL, teaching English as a foreign language. It was a three week program. I did that, got the certification and I applied to about 69 different companies in three or four different continents. And I managed to get a job in, um, Thailand with this company called Wall Street English. Okay.

[00:18:20] And this was the biggest, one of the biggest, uh, companies in this industry, teaching English as a foreign language. So, uh, going back to the, your initial question, right? The two things I could translate from the Dubai experience was for me, teaching English was just a medium to help people. So I remember when I checked the website of this company, Wall Street English, they had a line there which really captured my attention. Okay. They said at Wall Street English, teaching English is not just about teaching.

[00:18:49] It's about changing their life. So they used to look at English as a medium through which the students can go develop their confidence, their speaking ability and go for student exchange programs, go abroad. Because Thai students, a lot of them are not encouraged to speak up. And they're inherently not very confident people in terms of culture. So that was a window for them to a new world. So I love that about the company. And that's why I applied to work there and I managed to get the job. Okay.

[00:19:18] And this was one thing. So just hold on to this. Translating from the Dubai. Hold on to this. You know, understanding how you were building yourself. Yeah. So purpose and culture was very important to you, the way I can see. It was not really, again, doing certifications or going after labels or companies just for the heck of it. What the excitement and the twinkle I see in your eyes right now is that it had a purpose. It was building culture. It had a vision, which is also resonating with supporting people. Yeah.

[00:19:47] You did mention that in the beginning, right? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Go on. Yeah. So that's one thing, which is helping people. And I thought when I understood everything about the company and the job profile, everything, I felt this is a good match. Because it's not like I'm hiding behind a table and doing assessments. I'm actually involved with the students. I'm actually being there, helping them and working with themselves, which is beyond just teaching English, right?

[00:20:16] So that's one aspect of it, which is helping them to become better. So I'm helping them. Sure. Not just teaching English, right? That's one. The other aspect of it is how I was doing that. Because they had a very vibrant, dynamic environment. It's not about just you're a teacher. They're sitting on their desks and listening to you, giving a lecture. That's not how they were operating. So they had a very dynamic environment. Some of them, sometimes you have to do workshops. Sometimes you have to take them out.

[00:20:46] So they spend time with you. Sometimes they go shopping with you. So the students get an entire experience of speaking to a teacher and learning English as a practical thing versus just learning it as a subject. So this experience, you know, of how I was doing this job really excited me as well. So again, going back to it firstly, it's to understand that I can help them with this job. And the second part is how I'm actually doing it, which is fun.

[00:21:16] And I feel that we need to find how we want to experience our purpose and the mission that we have. So the integrated way of teaching, was it something which was missing in the education system you were exposed to? Oh, yeah. I mean, it's like non-existent. That was the pain point. Yeah, because I felt if I had an experience like this, an exposure environment like this, I felt I would have done so much better. I mean, I did okay. It's not that I failed a lot of subjects. I did okay.

[00:21:46] But I felt the way of delivery in the education system I grew up in, it's like giving labels, right? If you don't give, if you don't get A plus or A or whatever, you're stupid or you're not studying hard. Yeah, exactly. So I remember many years ago, I had a big argument with my dad. So he said, oh, you're not doing this. It means you're not paying attention. And I told him, how do you know I'm not paying attention? What if I'm not actually able to grasp it?

[00:22:16] So he's from the boomer generation. So they have not grown up thinking about these things and sitting with these kind of thoughts, right? So most of my teachers were from that generation as well. Which is still the disconnect till now. Yeah, even now. The education system is improving or changing with IB and everything. But still, you know, the understanding is limited. The process is equally important, not the outcomes alone. Exactly. So I like to think of it as, you know, if you're a farmer, right?

[00:22:46] You can have all the fertilizers, all the equipments and stuff like that. But if the soil you're sowing your seeds are not fertile, it's not going to grow, right? So it's the same thing as a teacher. So when I had this opportunity, I felt like I don't want those students to go through what I went through. And I felt this is fun. And I'm doing something to make a difference here. And there is one story I can tell you. Please. Maybe not now, but another time as a continuation. Sure.

[00:23:15] Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. So this is seven, eight months into my job as a teacher there. So I had a student. His name was Meg. So all the Thai students, they have their normal names and English name, short name. That's the culture there. So his short name was Meg and he was a 17 year old boy at the time. And I remember one day after classes, he was waiting in the corner, like really shy. And he wasn't very outspoken as well.

[00:23:44] So he came to me and he told me, teacher, I have something to share with you. And I said, OK, tell me, Meg, what's happening? So he said, I have this opportunity to go to Brazil for a student exchange program, but I don't know if I can do it. And I told him, OK, tell me more. And he said, I'm OK with the test and all the written stuff. But the final round, I have to do an interview with an American person and they will decide if I can go for the opportunity or not.

[00:24:11] And there are about 30 students who are appearing for this, but I don't know if I can get it because they select only like five students. So I actually could see myself in him. And I felt when I was 17 years old, I didn't really have anybody I could go up to and ask for, you know, open up. So what I did was after that day, for the next two weeks, every single day after classes, we would go.

[00:24:37] So there was a mall nearby and they had a good food court, a good seating and stuff like that. So we would get a coffee or something and get a seat and I would do role plays with him just informally. Right. And I shared with him what I had learned in terms of interviews and preparation and stuff like that. And I helped him to prepare for this interview, do role plays and all that. And long story short, after two weeks, he went for the interview and out of 30 students who applied for this, only five got selected. And he was one of them.

[00:25:06] So that evening, he sent me a message saying that, teacher Aki, thank you so much for helping me. If it was not for you, I would never be able to do this. And I remember a few days later, I saw his parents and Thai people are very polite. Right. And like we do in Namaste in India, they do the same thing, but they call it Y, W-A-I. So they were really grateful. And I felt very happy that I could play a role in their son's journey. And he went to Brazil.

[00:25:35] And I remember one thing that he told me, I asked him, why do you want to do this? What's the motivation? And he said, teacher Aki, in my class, there are so many students who are very shy. Most of them, in fact. And I want to come back from Brazil and share my experience with them and tell them that if it's possible for me, it's possible for them. And I'm like, are you really 17 years old? Because this is unbelievable.

[00:26:02] And I really love the way he, like, I love what he was motivated by. And again, all these experiences really gave me the belief and the feeling that this is meaningful. That you're going in the right direction. Right. And you're feeling more yourself. Yeah, exactly. And I felt like this is not just a job. I'm able to do so much more than that. It's more integrated. It's more wholesome. Yeah. A lot of you is in the job rather than just doing the job for the outcomes. Yeah. And I feel our journeys are interconnected, right?

[00:26:31] I mean, we talk about alignment and manifestives and stuff like that. One of the things I've learned in life is that we connect with people at certain points in our journey where we need to grow in a certain direction. And universe or God, whatever you believe in, he places people and opportunities in our path. Well said. And it's up to us to take it or not. Yeah. And we may not always know where it can lead to.

[00:26:56] But I think this is where we need to operate from the excitement and the faith of having the experience and not necessarily being attached to what kind of outcomes you would. I mean, if it happens, it's great. Your belief that education system could be better. You want to support people. You want to help them. It makes you happy. As a profession, you want to do things which are much more integrated and makes you feel very whole. Right.

[00:27:23] So from your role as a teacher, how did it evolve to becoming a coach? Yeah. The story of my student, Meg, was a big transformation point. I remember when I got the message from him that at that time was the most fulfilling thing in my life. Right. And I felt, OK, I really made a difference to someone's life. And I remember a couple of nights after that, around two o'clock in the morning, my sleep broke. And I could not sleep after that.

[00:27:51] And I remember sitting up and I'm thinking, OK, it's almost been a year since I'm working as a teacher. And I asked myself a question or rather this question came to my mind. OK, what next? Because I felt although all these things were great, helping students and everything, a lot of the roles I was doing as a teacher had become kind of repetitive. And that is boring for me. Right. And the structure they had in the company at the time was there's nothing in between a teacher and a manager.

[00:28:21] So the way the company was structured is that, OK, once you get it, if you get a promotion from a teacher, the next level was a senior teacher, which is like almost the same. And the next is a manager where you have to talk about the numbers and stuff like that. Right. So I didn't want that didn't excite me. So there was no ladder in terms of where I could go as a teacher and evolve into a better role. And I was like, OK, what do I do now? Like this is a bit repetitive.

[00:28:47] But I also don't want to let go of it because living abroad, salary is good and life is good. It's a very chilled out environment. And I remember the next day I was searching something in the teacher's room during the break. I don't know what I was searching, but I got an ad. And the ad was from my NLP certification company. OK. And the ad was like, do you help? Do you like to help people? Do you want to make a career? Something like that. Something along those lines. Right. I was like, OK, what's this?

[00:29:16] And I clicked on this and I understood about what NLP is to some extent, what ICF is. And I understood there's a whole industry in this career as a coach, a trainer, all this. But I had no clue what to do. Right. And they had another button on the website which said book a meeting with one of our representatives. So I clicked on this thing, filled out an entire form and someone was on the other side chatting

[00:29:43] with me and said, OK, let's come to this location and we'll meet for a coffee. So it turns out this was a sales director of the company. Right. So I went in and had a meeting with him and he told me everything about this industry for the first time ever in 2017. This was 17. Yeah. OK. So I understood about this entire industry, how it works, all this. And interestingly, Shalja, I found an alignment between what I love, which is speaking and presenting and this industry as well.

[00:30:11] Because if you want to become a coach or a trainer or anything in that industry, you have to put yourself out there. We all have to in any form of business. And I understood that speaking is very closely connected to your visibility and how you put yourself out there, meeting people, stuff like that. So I felt, OK, some parts of it, it seems like I've done it to some extent. So maybe I can do this. So they said, we have a free seminar. Why don't you come to that? So I went to the free seminar, half a day thing. And I loved what I experienced.

[00:30:41] And I immediately decided to book for the program. I applied to I mean, I booked both the programs, NLP practitioner and the ICF level one program. And then I quit my job as well with this company, the teaching job, because I felt I'm coming to the. OK, so just this point. Yeah. Quitting the job while you're still pursuing the certification. Yeah. What was going in the back of your mind? Well, it was very clear to me that this is where I want to go. And where is that clarity coming from?

[00:31:12] Something inside me, I guess, because when I look back at the previous transformation points in my life, Dubai, dropping out of EmTech and then the job in Thailand, all of them happen because I made a decision with a strong conviction that came from within. Right. So I had this conviction and I'm like, OK, this is where I want to go. This is so clear to me. And I saw some people who are already doing it in the free seminar.

[00:31:39] But if I and I was coming to the end of my teaching contract with the company because you have a yearly contract. So if you renew it, the problem is I don't have enough time to go for an in-person training because this is before COVID. You know, online trainings are not very popular those days. So I thought I don't want to be begging to the manager to let me to go for this thing. And I'm not I'm sure I'm not going to be continuing as a teacher. So let me just see what's going to happen. And I had a little bit of savings at the time.

[00:32:07] So I decided to not renew my contract. I quit the job, gave them a one month notice. And after one month, I went for this training. And after doing these two trainings, I remember having a conversation with the managing director of the company, the same company from where I took my training. And I told him that, you know, I really love what you guys do. This is what I want to do. I want to work with you guys because I don't know anything about business,

[00:32:32] because on the last day of the training, I understood being a good coach is not just about skills and certifications only. Right. The business side is a very different skill set. And I'm not from a business family. So I don't know anything about business. I don't know how to get clients. I don't know what to do. So I want to work with you guys. So he said something very politely to decline my request. And he said, oh, Aki, we really appreciate your enthusiasm.

[00:32:57] But we can't hire right now because we have a visa issue, this, that. So some people do this, right? They put the reason on an external factor to not give you access to what you want. Just hold on to that. You know, you quit your job. You pursued the two certifications. And you were also aware that certification alone is not going to really land you. I learned that in the last day. You learned that in the last day. I didn't know that in the beginning. Okay. Okay. Okay. All right.

[00:33:26] So what happened after that? Because now you have certification. Yeah. But you don't know how to monetize it. Yeah. Right? Yeah. What happened after that? Well, for about a week or two, I was lost. Like, I didn't know what to do. Right? And I went and spoke to the managing director, like I said before. Yeah. Which didn't work out. And I said, you know, like, I want to work with you guys, which didn't work out. So I went back to my room and I had two months left on my visa. And I was like, okay, something needs to happen soon.

[00:33:54] Otherwise, I have to go back to India and then I have to go through the whole visa stuff again. And I remember, so one of my favorite speakers is Les Brown, the American motivational speaker. I love the way he tells stories and stuff like that. So remember one story where he said there were two men, two friends who were doing door-to-door sales. Okay. Right? And door-to-door sales is very, very painful. A lot of rejection and stuff like that.

[00:34:20] So he said the two men both had a lot of responsibilities for their families. One person actually gave up after many, many rejections. But the other person kept going because giving up wasn't a choice for him. And apparently that also didn't work out. And then this person volunteered to work in a company as an intern without any salary. And this person worked really hard for about a month or so. And they had a vacancy. And this person got hired.

[00:34:50] And what I learned from this story is, okay, so when people actually say we can't hire you because of da-da-da, what they're actually saying is we don't see enough value in you. So demonstrated value is not there. That's what they're actually saying, right? Maybe not the words, but they're saying we don't see enough value in you yet. That's what they're saying. So I'm like, hmm, so maybe I haven't shown, you know, the value that I can bring. And frankly, I don't even know what that is yet, but I just have a desire. So I messaged the managing director again. And I said, I have an idea.

[00:35:19] I didn't say what I wanted to say. I said, okay, I have an idea. Can I meet you? I said, okay, okay, come over. And I remember going there the next day. And I spoke to this person. And I told him that I understand that you can't hire me. But give me an internship because they were doing many, many trainings. They need your help with all the admin stuff and stuff like that. So I said, give me anything, you know, like I'll do anything. Just let me in and let me work with you guys. And after a month or so, you tell me if you want to hire me.

[00:35:49] You don't have to pay me anything. So he said, okay, let me talk to my partners. He had a couple of business partners. And he sent me a text in the evening. And I still remember that text because I jumped with so much joy. And he said, Aki, we are happy to let you in. But just to let you know, we won't be paying you anything. And it's a one-month thing. And we are going to be doing this in hotels, the training. So you will get the food and the coffee and stuff like that. So I was like, okay, my food is taken care of. I have a place to stay. So nothing to worry.

[00:36:17] I have enough money to sustain myself through one month, month and a half. So I got in as an intern with the same company from where I took my certification. So at the end of the... So I did everything from buying coffee for the trainer to sitting by the printer, printing stuff for the training, to being part of the event management to set up something like this. I did all of these things to gain the trust of these people.

[00:36:45] Because I don't know how good I am as a coach yet. They don't know that either. So just so that I understand this better. One is your passion. Right? Passion which is validated and you know, I want to help people. I feel good. Second is you are in a situation where you also want to monetize and get financially independent very soon. You have one month on your hand. So what was driving you more?

[00:37:13] The financial independence to stay back in the country or your love for... I would say... Coaching. The love for coaching is what I would say. It was driving you. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I love money. Money is great. Money is a great tool. But it's never been the biggest driving factor for me. You know, I mean, I love something that Steve Jobs said many years ago. He said that money is a great tool. It gives you a lot of options to do things. Right?

[00:37:41] And I feel that when we develop our capability and by that I mean inner work plus outer, then we have a medium to give value. Right? And money at the end of the day, it's exchange of value, exchange of energy. That's how I look at it. So what was driving me was 100% the love for coaching. The passion. The clarity that you have to get into coaching. Yeah. And how was that one month? Scary. How did it end? You told us how it was. A lot of hard work. But how did it end for you?

[00:38:11] Well, it was great. I remember it was 21st of December 2017. And it was the final day of the NLP trainers training they were doing. And the managing director of this company, 6'4", Australian guy. Yeah. Huge guy. Yeah. And he came to me at the end of the, almost at the end of the training because nobody was saying anything. I had no clue what would happen. So I remember him coming to me at the end of it. And he put his arm around my shoulder.

[00:38:39] And he said, Aki, let me keep this short. You have been great. The team loves you. And we'd love to have you on board. The next step is the visa. So you have to do some part of the paperwork, getting things in order. But we'll pay for it. Right? So, and I'm like, so does that mean I'm in? He's like, yeah, you're in. And then I still don't know what my salary is and stuff like that. But I've. What, besides the excitement, what shifted for you that day? I thought there's one more step.

[00:39:09] I've crossed one step. And I want their trust and them actually in working with them. And that experience itself, has it brought in learnings in other parts of your life? Yeah, absolutely. I would say the biggest learning from that was sometimes we know what we can do, right? Our skills, our value, etc. But the people that we are working with, we want to work with, sometimes there is a period

[00:39:37] where we have to show that, right? We have to demonstrate that. You could probably impress somebody by saying something in one conversation, but you can't sustain that for a long period of time. So I felt that it's important to prove in an authentic way what our value is so that people actually want to work with you or want to hire you. That you have to be active where your prospects are already going and build a relationship with them. Sure. So that's the first thing.

[00:40:07] The second thing that I understood is that it's important to make an offer. And what I mean by that is, I remember in the early days as a coach, I used to believe that just because they have a good conversation with you or you give them an experience of coaching, they're going to sign up. It doesn't happen like that. Some people may ask you, okay, how does it work when I work with you? But in my experience and from what I've heard with a lot of clients, many people don't really ask you,

[00:40:36] okay, can I work with you or how does it work if I hire you as my coach? You have to make an offer. So this is where all the resistance and everything I had about asking for the sale, asking for money, and am I really worthy of getting this payment? And all these things came in because I learned that at some point in the conversation, you have to make an offer, right? Why were you resisting? Why was there resistance? You had worked earlier. Yeah. Yeah. But there's different levels to it, right?

[00:41:05] This is exposing you more to your prospect. Yeah. That is more of salary which is coming in a month. Exactly. Yeah. And honestly, at that time, I didn't really know a lot where this resistance was coming from. But one thing that was dramatically different for me in that company versus the English teaching job that I had was the kind of people I was engaging with. So I went from engaging with teenagers, like most of them were teenagers, to interacting

[00:41:33] with 40 plus year old people most of the time. And the kind of demands and needs they had were very different from the students. And the way I had to talk to them is also very different, right? So that was like being thrown at the deep end. So I would say these are two things I learned about the lead gen plus having to make an offer because it's important to make the pitch. It may not work out immediately, but it's a starting point, right? So yeah. So when you were doing certifications, right? You did two of them. Yeah.

[00:42:03] ICF and NLP. Yeah. The level ones for the ICF. What does certification teach which is important? But there are areas which it doesn't teach as well, which is converting into business and monetization. So that seems to be the need gap which you entered eventually. Yeah. Right? From what we know of you in 2026. Yeah. And that is your niche domain of coaching.

[00:42:29] But before that, do you want to answer the question which I had asked you? So going back to the first two clients I got with this company, right? And that obviously boosted my confidence and made me feel good. And I remember about six, seven, no, seven, eight months after that. So I was working pretty close to the founder of the company and I still have a good relationship with him.

[00:42:55] And I realized one day that we're doing all these certification trainings to certify people as ICF and NLP coaches and doing corporate training, all of this stuff. And I realized a lot of our clients have the same problem that I had, which is how do we get clients, right? What next? Yeah. Because I felt this is a gap and it's an opportunity. And I felt I have some level of experience to help people with this.

[00:43:21] And I thought, what if I make this, you know, my area? Because this was a clear gap in the company. And I looked at it as two different opportunities. One, to evolve my own presence and my authority there because my energy was naturally flowing there. Secondly, to make the company better as well, because this was a clear area, right? People didn't have this before. No, they didn't have.

[00:43:46] So I remember he used to travel a lot, like travel to Vietnam and many different countries to do trainings. And it was not easy to meet him in person. So he came into the office one day, I remember waiting until 7.30, 7.45 at night for him to finish all the meetings. And I said, I want to talk to you about something. And he said, can we walk and talk? So he used to take the metro to go back to his home. And it was a one and a half kilometer walk from the office. So, and he walks really fast.

[00:44:15] So I had a really hard time walking and telling him what I had in my mind. And I said, so his name is Sebastian. So we used to call him Seb. So I said, Seb, you know, we train these people to become coaches, right? But they don't know how to get clients. So don't you think it is our responsibility to help them with that? And he said, tell me more. And I'm like, okay, he's interested. So I said, as you know, like I've been working with you and this company for a while, and

[00:44:45] I managed to get some of my own clients as well. And I've learned a few things on what people need to do to get clients. It is like probably 2% of what I do today. But I still had some kind of framework to how to approach the business side. And the company had some resources in terms of recordings and stuff like that. So I got an idea to package everything into a program, which is on the business side of coaching.

[00:45:11] So I said, you know, at the end of our upcoming training, we have an NLP Master Practition training coming up at the time. This is November 2018. So I said, at the end of the training, give me some time to give a presentation, half an hour, maybe 45 minutes max. And I'll do a presentation. And I'll take people to an exercise. At the end of it, I'll make a pitch for a program, a very affordable program. And I think a lot of people there would want to invest in it. And he said, okay, let's do that.

[00:45:40] And he said, okay, show me everything you're going to do. I'll give you the time to prepare, da-da-da. And the end of the training, the eighth day of the last year, the training happened. NLP Master Practitioner training. And I remember feeling really nervous. I was about to walk into the room to give the presentation. And he came to me and he said, Aki, we are running out of time. You have 15 minutes, not 45 minutes. And I'm like, oh, no. What am I going to do? I have all the slides and everything, right?

[00:46:07] So I think I had about 30 slides, if I remember correctly. And I cut them down to 10 slides. Just chopped off everything that was unnecessary. And I chopped off all the stories. And I directly went into the points. And I ran through the presentation in 15 minutes. And at the end of it, I made an offer. And there was a nervous moment where I was going to ask people to raise their hand if you're interested. To pay. Yeah. And sign up. Yeah. So we had about 27 coaches from many different countries there.

[00:46:37] And I asked, okay, how many of you are interested? And my heart is beating at a million miles per hour. So I asked people, how many of you are interested? And I saw seven hands going up among 27 people. So that was a validation. That was the moment. That was the moment where I officially entered the space. And seven people paid. And we were charging, I think, about $270 for this program.

[00:47:03] So until this moment, again, you know, I'm looking at your operating system now. Like what was really building you from education to believing in support and also questioning the education system, questioning the training system, questioning what really it's going to give to people. Certificate, tangible certificate is great. Putting it in your drawers is great. But is it going to monetize? It is going to give me a livelihood.

[00:47:32] So I think there's a common theme across whatever you've done, right? So to add that value, to also give something the education system is not really thinking of. Yeah. So you created that sort of, fill that need gap. Yeah. When did you bring it back to India? Was it through the organization or it was? Not through the organization. So there's some parts of the story. I'll just go through it a bit quickly. So that's how it started. November 2018.

[00:48:02] Yeah. And this was the very first time. And I still remember. So the agreement that I had with my boss, my ex-boss is that whatever money we make out of this entire thing, I'll take 10%. 90% goes to the company. Okay. And within the same day, everybody paid. And I remember him sending a message. I'm really proud of you. And I took a screenshot of that thing. And he paid me the 10%. And I think at that point in time, that was the best feeling I had in terms of the money I had made.

[00:48:33] So that was a starting point for this. So huge reassurance that it is being rewarded as well, right? Yeah. A couple of things, right? One is that I realize what I'm providing is valuable. Exactly. And your niche was emerging. Yeah. And secondly, it was fun for me. For me, that's very important, you know, to have fun with it. And to find ways to have fun with the things that you're doing, right? That's how I got started with this.

[00:49:01] And I was still with the company for two more years. I was doing this to some level with a few people. 2020, COVID hit. Everything changed, right? And we were stuck in Thailand for about a month and a half. No flights out. So we came back to India. And the company was not in a very good position at the time. So I had to think of something else. And for a month or so, I was not really doing anything. Not knowing what to do. I was just chilling at home, eating my mom's food.

[00:49:29] And at that time, you know, I thought, this is something that I'm already doing. And what if I make this into my own business of helping coaches to get clients? So November 2020 is when I started on my own. And I had a few people within my immediate network. And the first few clients came from there. And then a year or so later, I started becoming more active on LinkedIn.

[00:49:54] And started speaking in conferences and, you know, getting invitation to shows and stuff like that. Many of them are online. This is the second in-studio podcast for me. So that's how I got started. And there are many more things. But I'll leave it to you for the questions. Okay. So, you know, many coaches now whom you're coaching, they struggle with client acquisition. Right? Your success story could be very different. And for them, struggles could be very different.

[00:50:24] 100%. What are the inhibitions which is keeping them constrained? Yeah. Good question. There are, now what I would say is it's different for different people. But there are some common elements, right? Let's talk about the common elements because it's easy for people to consume in this podcast as well. A few of the things I've seen in common, the biggest one probably is the fear of putting themselves out.

[00:50:51] And most of the coaches I work with, they have 20 plus years in corporate and they're transitioning into the coaching career. This is my main audience within the ICF coaches community. So what I've seen is, you know, they've built their reputation, their credibility, their authority with titles and designations and their numbers and outcomes, right? But when you step into a coaching business, all of these things fall away. The structure they have built with...

[00:51:21] Does it need to fall away, Aki? Hmm? Does it need to fall away? I guess it depends on the person. Okay. Because if it's not helping them to operate, then I think it's something to think about. So what I was saying is, they don't have the same system and the frameworks to fall back on. Fall back on. The organizational systems. Exactly. There's no organizational system. There's a lot of uncertainty that comes with starting anything new, let alone a coaching business, right?

[00:51:48] So this is something that a lot of people really struggle with is what I've observed. And the first one is the fear of putting themselves out there. Because most of the people, they're quite experienced. They need to know if they're doing something that makes sense. They don't want to be doing something randomly. They want to know, okay, am I on the right track? Stuff like that, right? So unless they have that conviction, most of them don't want to put themselves out there. That's one thing I've observed with the fear of putting themselves out.

[00:52:17] And there are a few other things as well. Some people have a fear of asking for money. Okay. And this can actually come from their childhood. Because if they've grown up with a not so good relationship with money, perhaps they grew up in a poor household and they worked their way up and whatnot. So some people really have a hard time asking for the price that they want to ask. It's because their relationship with money is not very good, not very healthy.

[00:52:43] So when they think about money, I remember I did a masterclass for one of the ICF chapters a few months ago. And one of the exercises was I asked people a question. When you hear the word money, how do you feel? And I asked people to type in the chat. And some people said freedom, which is good. Some people said fear. Some people said it's something that is a struggle for me. Right.

[00:53:06] So if they're experiencing money as a struggle or something that they have to work hard for or struggle for, then it's not easy for them to ask for money. It's a relationship. Yeah, exactly. So before we go into a very specific coaching led conversation, I just want for the benefit of our audience to understand what really coaching is about. How it can benefit people?

[00:53:34] How is it different from, let's say, therapy, counseling? And where it begins and where it ends in this entire support system, which is available to people. So do you want to shed some light on that? Sure. So I'll share from my experience. The difference between coaching or any other modality of change and transformation, in my experience, is coaching is not about fixing somebody. Coaching is not about telling them what to do. Coaching is about helping the person tap into.

[00:54:03] I mean, a few different areas. Tap into what makes them operate in the way that they are operating and what can help them to evolve and become better without having to fix something. It's about creating the space for the person to share whatever is going on in their life.

[00:54:26] Look at their own thought patterns, stuff like that, and identify areas which they can improve, want to improve, and finding a way that is sustainable for them to have that evolution, have that transformation. Sure. So, Aki, like we've had coaches on the show as well, right? So they've been behavioral coaches. Yeah. I'm a coach myself. Coaching essentially is still new in India. Yeah. And it generally gets confused with... IIT coaching. Yes. Medical coaching.

[00:54:56] Medical coaching. And we have family and you have friends. Why do you really need coaches? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, especially ICF credential coaching, what difference do you find in the way it's structured and how the coaching sessions are led, which makes a profound difference? And those differences you'd have seen in your coaching sessions as well. Yeah. So you want to shed some light on that? Yeah. So everything I'm going to share is from my own experience going through the trainings. Because I've done the level one training.

[00:55:26] And I've taken coaching from some really, really good coaches. Sure. I've been on the receiving end as well. So in my experience, what really moves the needle when you're experiencing coaching as a client or as a coachee is that a good coach can actually create the space for you to open up. So be vulnerable. Be vulnerable.

[00:55:48] Really look at yourself and understand what are the fears or focus, beliefs, etc. that are controlling you and your life right now. And look at those things in a way that is non-judgmental. It's not about, okay, identifying this thing and labeling it as good or bad. It's like, okay, this is true in your current reality.

[00:56:14] We need to change it or, you know, evolve it to something better so that it can become better as a leader or become better as a business person, improve a relationship, stuff like that. So I would say it's about looking at what are the things, what are the fears, what are the beliefs, what are the values that are guiding you?

[00:56:35] And becoming aware of things that no longer serve you and creating, you know, new beliefs and new values that will help you to move the needle. I'll play the devil's advocate just for the audience, right? Why can't a person do it themselves? It's called self-reflection or it's called pausing. And those are different modalities one can take.

[00:57:01] What is the benefit of having a coach to walk along with you as a thinking partner? So in my opinion and in my experience, when you have a coach, right, and that person is not attached to you in certain way or that person is not the closest person to you, not your spouse, not your family.

[00:57:24] Because usually when a family member or a spouse or somebody is trying to help you, they have their opinion about us, right? Because they've seen you and they have a certain perception about who you are, what are your capabilities. That may not be true inherently, but that is true in their mind. What they believe is capable is possible for you. So in my experience, a coach doesn't really have any sort of opinions on about you.

[00:57:49] A good coach is able to take themselves away from the conversation, not bring themselves in, but just kind of holding a mirror to the person. And this is not for everybody in my experience. This will work only for people who are really invested in their growth and are willing to do the hard work.

[00:58:11] Hard work in the sense that it's not an easy thing to look at yourself and what's guiding you and what's stopping you. A lot of these things bring a lot of pain as well. A lot of confusion, a lot of uncertainty. You may not really know what to do, what you're doing all the time. But this is only for people who really want to do that inner work and who really are okay to go through that journey.

[00:58:36] See, training, mentoring and coaching are fundamentally very different tracks to take. So training will give you a module and you run that module. Mentoring is from your own life experience. If you have something to share with your cohort, there is some benefit. They take it from you. Coaching is largely to do with enabling, facilitating, but not really actively giving any suggestions.

[00:59:02] And making the person take actions in their life, which happen very organically because they sit in the driving seat suddenly. Which they were not because of inertia or whatever inhibitions which were keeping them back. You spoke about limiting beliefs. You spoke about some values. And there's a lot more work which we do as coaches in that space.

[00:59:25] So for me, it was very profound after having practiced meditation for many, many years in Pranayama. When I got into coaching, it's been a year and a half now. Coaching as in like the one-on-one private coachings which we are doing. It was fundamentally a shift which has happened in me. Right?

[00:59:48] So I have seen that how just as a conversation, just when you open up that space for somebody, it can do so much more good to you. Even both from coach and coachee perspective. Right? So I have like yourself, I have been on the coachee side. And I've been a coach. And it's very difficult to explain the magic which happens during those coaching hours and sessions. And only if you're a coach or a client, you can understand the shifts which can happen.

[01:00:18] So yeah, I'm equally passionate about coaching. And both are important, right? I feel that you can develop capability as a coach. But if you're not at the receiving end of things, in my opinion, your perspective will be a little narrower. And obviously, we have to do work on ourselves as well, right?

[01:00:44] And if you don't get coached, just because you got a certification doesn't mean that everything is great about you. So I feel that it's important for us to understand where we are in this journey. And if we are stuck, if something doesn't seem to flow, it's better to get the help of a good coach. Yeah. So there are a lot of people who are doing a one-on-one coaching. They are obviously not talking much about it for whatever reason. I mean, that's been my experience.

[01:01:13] Largely, they say everyone's taking coaching. Even in organizations, CEOs, CXOs, everyone does have coaches. They don't talk enough about it. Do you have the same experience? You mean people are not talking about taking coaching? Yes. So it's sort of a secret recipe or a secret weapon which they have. Yeah, yeah. And they wouldn't expose it. Yeah, I believe so. Okay. I mean, not believe so. I've experienced it to some extent.

[01:01:41] And I think culture has a lot to do with this. Because if you look at our culture, right, in India, a lot of people still have this perception that you need coaching or something is wrong with you. Or, you know, nothing is wrong with me. I don't need fixing. I don't need a coach. But it's not about fixing something, right? It's about helping you to become better if that's what you want. Yeah. No one's forcing you anything.

[01:02:10] And I think culturally we are still, it's better compared to before. But we're still not at a point where it is okay to talk about, you know, your vulnerabilities. Or it is okay to talk about where you are stuck. It is not something that is encouraged in public settings, in family gatherings. And very few families have that type of an atmosphere, right? Where you're encouraged to talk about if something is bothering you or, for example, mental health even. Yeah.

[01:02:38] So I feel a lot of it is about the culture. Because one of the biggest fears human beings have is actually being judged. And it goes back millions of years. Because when we were hunter-gatherers, the biggest fear was if you're not part of the tribe, you're at the danger of getting eaten by a tiger or any other animal. So that, it's still there in our brain. Because the evolution of the brain happened at a much lower pace compared to the life that we live now.

[01:03:07] So many of the fears are still there. But we're just not aware of it. And I think in India, our culture, it's still not really fully evolved to the extent where it is okay to talk about these things. So people kind of want to keep it private. In fact, some of the coaches that I work with, some of my clients, they are also not okay for me to talk about it on LinkedIn. And some of them are okay. You know, if they get a client and they get results, they're like, okay, I'm happy to share my experience. But some people don't want to be named. Some people don't want to be seen. It has to be like a private thing.

[01:03:38] Whereas if we compare that with, for example, in the US or some other countries outside. I'm not saying one is better than the other. But it's just the way that people operate. It's much more common. It's part of the culture. It's much more part of the culture. So, yeah. Okay. So, you know, one topic which I have to bring in is AI. Okay. And impact of AI even in coaching.

[01:04:01] In fact, I was at an event a couple of days ago where I was moderating a session on impact of AI in different industries. And AI essentially is everywhere. And not that we are not impacted by it. All of us are. Coaching industry will also get impacted by it. Yeah. It's already. AI, executing our work is great. We delegate work to AI is great.

[01:04:27] But AI, when it starts driving the culture conversation which you were talking about, is where are industries heading? Yeah. Even coaching industry perhaps in the times to come, years to come. What is your perspective on it? On AI as a whole? Yeah. And then in context to coaching. Yeah. A couple of things I can say from my experience so far.

[01:04:52] Obviously, I do use AI to mostly chat GPT in different parts of the business, right? I remember about a year ago, I brought in one of the most experienced coaches. His name is Mr. Jean-François Cousin. JF, we call him. He was a 2019 global chairman of ICF. So, I brought him in to do a session for my clients. And it was a private session with a few people. And someone asked him this question.

[01:05:20] And I thought he is the best person to answer, at least in the people that I know. He has like 25 plus years of experience in the industry. So, what he said is, whatever is happening with AI is an invitation for us to deepen our coaching. It's to deepen who we are. And when I first heard it, I was like, okay, this is something I have to listen to again. And I listened to the recording a few days later again.

[01:05:46] And what he said is, it is no longer enough to just learn a few coaching skills or get a certification. Because the basic level of coaching, which is goal setting and stuff like that, AI can do so much easily. Absolutely. You know, like make a plan and make an action plan and stuff like that. But what AI still can't do is to pick up on the energy of the person. Yes. Is to look at, read the body language. Is to sit in silence.

[01:06:13] If something is, like if, to know when to have that silence with the client. Or to create the space for the person to, like have an introspection in that silence. Stuff like that, right? So, that's one aspect of it in terms of coaching. The other thing that I learned recently, this is like a few weeks ago. There's someone I follow who's ranked as one of the top five futurists. So, this person is a speaker.

[01:06:42] Again, I follow some speakers as well. So, he goes to big, big organizations, royal families and all that to talk about the future of work. How the work is going to evolve in the future. And he's based in Dubai. So, one of the things he said in his post, and I connect with that so much. He said that the generational wealth of the people today and going forward is going to come from people who take control of their nervous system.

[01:07:08] And what that essentially means is it's about us. Yes. The more human and inward you go, is what's left. Exactly. So, hold on to yourself. Exactly. Because the age of becoming good and recognized with a skill or experience in a certain industry is almost gone. Right? Almost. So, what really matters, and I think now more than ever, I'm experiencing this in my industry as well. Now more than ever, people are looking for real human connections. Yes.

[01:07:38] At least a lot of people, if not everybody. So, it's important, in my opinion, to be in touch with who we are. Right? And improve our relationship with ourselves. And see what parts of that can we use to serve our clients. Right? Beautiful. So, the humanness in us. Yeah. So, these are two things I can... Very nice. Yeah. Very nicely put. And this also takes me back to what you mentioned, the experience you had when you went for your deeper yoga retreat. The Isha Yoga Center.

[01:08:08] Yeah, you want to talk about that? Yeah, sure. So, that's also in context where you pursue to be more human. Yeah, absolutely. And be connected in order. So, I have to give credit to this to my wife, Sadi. Because she is the one who kind of pushed me to go into the program. And interestingly, what happened is that I didn't really have a lot of expectations going into this. I'm like, okay, let's see. Because I've been following Sadhguru for many years. So, I know... I feel aligned with whatever their teachings and everything.

[01:08:37] So, we did this program. Inner Engineering Program. Three and a half days in-person event. And I would say in terms of the theory that they're teaching, I did not find many things that are new to me. Because they talk about things like taking responsibility for your life and stuff like that. Which is what we essentially learn in NLP and coaching, right? So, the theory part of it was not that new. But one of the biggest questions I've been having over the last few years, Shalja, it got answered.

[01:09:07] And that was about the energetic part. So, I mean, we have a few different things that guide us, right? Control us as human beings. We have mind, body, emotion. Then we have energy. So, mind, your body to some extent. You can take care, exercise, food, etc. But how do you elevate your energy? It's like, for example, if you have a sports car, right? What do you do to make sure that sports car performs at a high level?

[01:09:35] So, that, in my opinion, is how energy and the use of energy needs to happen. So, they introduced us to a few different practices. One of them was Shambhavi Mahamudra Kriya. So, this is one of the practices to elevate your energy. So, what we learned, one of the biggest learnings for me was, we have a lot more capability than what we know logically. Which is, you know, inherently in our system. Which you're not using. Yeah, but we don't know that it exists.

[01:10:05] And we don't know how to tap into it. And even if, you know, we don't do it consistently, right? So, being in that environment kind of put me and Swati and others into a mental space where you have to do those things. The practices, whether or not you like it or not. So, on the final day of the program, I bought this ring. It's the consecrated ring, the snake ring. And snake is connected very closely with spirituality in our Sanatandam tradition, right?

[01:10:33] And what they're saying about this ring as well is that when, this is copper, pure copper. And it's consecrated. So, when it comes in touch with your body, it does a lot of things to help you to become more clear, more conscious. It elevates the clarity in your life. And what that means is not always, it's not going to be always peaceful. So, I remember I came back to Goa where we live. And a few days after that, I felt very unsettled. And I looked at everything that I had taken a break for about a week or two.

[01:11:03] And I came back to my work and many things that I was doing until then, I kind of felt disconnected. For example, I was consistently doing LinkedIn posts every single day for a long period of time. And I have a repository of all my posts, right? And I read some of the posts. And I'm like, huh? Did I really say this? So, what I realized is, okay, at that point in time when I made this, it was true for me. But I don't connect with that version of it right now, right?

[01:11:31] So, I felt there is something else happening. And I did not feel aligned to operate in the same way that I used to. Something shifted. Exactly. Something shifted. But I did not know what it is. I was very unsettled, very uncomfortable. And I reached out to one of my clients who is a coach. Thankfully, I have a lot of coaches around me. So, I can get sessions with people, both unpaid and paid ones, depending on who I want to work with. So, I'm grateful for that. So, I had a session with one of them.

[01:12:00] And what I realized was, a couple of things at that point. This is October 2025. Okay. And I came back after the program. So, a couple of things which became very, very important for me is that I wanted to deepen the work that I do with my clients. Which is going beyond the frameworks and all that. Because I had developed a reputation for a guy who was good with framework and stuff like that. Which is okay. But I felt there has to be something deeper, right?

[01:12:29] So, until then, the energy work and the alignment work was not part of what I do with my clients. So, all the clients I used to take at that point in time, coaches to help them grow their business. I used to say this clearly, that there are two different sides to this entire success in your business. One is the work with your energy and yourself. And the other part is the external side. So, I used to say my focus is on the external side. And if you need to get a coach for the other side, you do that.

[01:12:57] Because I did not want to set the wrong expectation. Yes. I think that's where we are sitting. Ah, exactly. The internal work in the outer outcome. Because when I came back, I felt... That shifted for you. Yeah. So, you felt more aligned with the inner work as well. And I started to see the relevance and the connection between it. And for some reason, I had always put this off. And I felt like I don't want to go into that area. Because you have to deal with a lot more things than... What shifted? Something from within, you know. The practices made that happen. Yeah.

[01:13:27] I think it has a lot to do with what happened in the Inner Engineering Program. And the Shambhavi Mohamud Rakriya that we were practicing. Do you practice it after that also? We've practiced for 40 days consistently. The last few weeks, I haven't been able to do it. Lots of traveling and stuff. Sounds like excuses. So, I plan to restart again after a week once I'm back home. Okay. Yeah. Okay. All right. So, we have someone who's worked on himself intuitively.

[01:13:55] And then found your true calling. Yeah. Right? To support people and go with the flow of your intuition. And then you built a world of building the outer outcomes for people. And now you've also ignited your inner work. Yeah. And working towards it. Brilliant, Aki. So, we have these quick bites which are asked at the end. But I have a few before that. Where does the coaching industry lack integrity today? Great question.

[01:14:23] And it is so relevant to my space within the coaching industry. Which is helping people to grow their business and get clients. There is a lot of emphasis on making a certain amount of money. And there's nothing wrong with that. Obviously, it's an important part of it.

[01:14:41] But in my opinion, there is a lot of lack of alignment in terms of people claiming to help you make 10 lakhs in a month. Or $10,000 in a six month or whatever it is. So, many people lead with that. Right? And in my opinion, if you're leading somebody by showing them the promise of a certain amount of money.

[01:15:08] Without telling them anything about the relevance of all the inner work and everything that goes into it. Kind of making it sound too good to be true. That, I think, is not okay. Because you're... It's manipulative. Because if you're showing somebody, okay, you know, this person did it. So, you can do it. It's very easy. You have to use this script. Use this framework. Stuff like that. That, I think, is... That lacks integrity. Coaching disappeared tomorrow.

[01:15:35] What part of this work would you still be called to do? Great question. I would just say conversations. I'll just keep it at that. Human to human conversation. Yeah. Because, I mean, at this point, I don't even want to give it a label of coaching or whatever. Because most of my work is a mix of mentoring and coaching. Because it's a mix of both in my space. So, it doesn't really bother me, to be honest. I would just say a heart-to-heart conversation.

[01:16:05] So, you just... Yeah. Just be human. Yeah. And things will go from there if you have connection. You may not connect with everybody and that's okay. What kind of leader is coaching preparing the world for? I would say coaching is preparing leaders to lead themselves first before leading others. Because that, in my opinion, is so relevant today. More than ever before.

[01:16:34] The humanness, what we spoke about before. Quick bites. Coaching without inner work becomes... Complete this intense. Unsustainable. Authority grows when you stop... Attaching to labels. Mindset tools fail when... There's no alignment with who you are. Visibility becomes powerful when...

[01:17:00] You become visible in places that you feel attracted to. Whether it is social media or anything else. An unstoppable leader is someone who... Always does the inner work. Okay. So, define unstoppable spirit. This is probably the only question from what I prepared in the morning. I would say...

[01:17:28] One metaphor that I always keep going back to, right? It's like if you have a container which has water, right? Water flowing through it. And if you poke holes in it, the water is leaking, right? So, I like to look at water as the energy source. So, similarly for unstoppable, what makes somebody unstoppable in my opinion is to understand where your energy is getting leaked.

[01:17:53] And try to either get rid of those things or find where your energy flows naturally. And choose a field or people or environment and habits that support the natural flow of your energy. Beautiful. I think that's what makes somebody unstoppable in my opinion. Beautiful. Well said. Thank you. And thank you. And thanks for your presence.

[01:18:22] Honestly, I've got to know a lot more about you. You know, it's... When we started talking, we met to when we spoke on a video call a few weeks ago, maybe days ago. And today, I see a very different person with a lot of depth. And you're thoroughly true and true Aki, the coach. You were born one. You've become truly now that for the world. So, congrats. Thank you. And we wish you all the best, Aki.

[01:18:51] Thank you, Shailja. And I've got to know a lot about myself as well. Because sometimes you know certain things in the back of your mind. But unless somebody asks you a certain question, you don't really reflect deep within, right? Yeah. So, thank you for creating this space. And I wish you all the best with your work as well. Thank you so much. You're welcome.