Queer Storytelling in India: Finally Taking Center Stage I The Queer Stage I Unscripted with Akarsh Khurana

[00:00:00] Queer Stories in India have existed in whispers or you know quoted characters or lives lived off stage but off late they are stepping into the spotlight Queer Queer Theatre Queerness Queer College Queerness in India The Queer characters Watch a lot more queer plays Queer people live across the world The idea of transness or queerness What I see today I could have never even imagined I don't want everything to be about my pronouns At the end of the day depends on who you are making a story

[00:00:28] Men haven't been talked about in realistic ways as well I didn't know enough trans actors at that point And we're in 2026 you know kind of regressing and making I don't know what sort of cinema anymore I wanted to cast she was like Didi you have to pay me 400 bucks a day because I'm the only earning member Queer actors are very valuable because they get what I'm trying to say There aren't many people coming out and saying they're queer because they're scared

[00:01:10] Please welcome your host Akash Khurana Hi good evening and welcome to the third episode of the third season of Unscripted with Akash Khurana Today's topic of course is called the Queer Stage Queer Stories in India have existed in whispers or you know quoted characters or lives lived off stage but off late they are stepping into the spotlight and they're being performed in packed theatres and sung on reality television and published in children's books

[00:01:37] books and even reclaimed from mythology itself and joining us today are four people who have helped to build that stage or space which is hopefully safe or what an alliteration So first up the co-founder of India's largest platform for queer storytelling yes I'm talking about Gacy family and we have with us Sakshi Juneja

[00:01:58] Second a critic and a playwright who has documented over 100 queer plays across the country and continues to create content about the community Vikram Phukhan

[00:02:27] Next up an accomplished actor writer and director who also happens to be my classmate from college though she often denies it very celebrated director who brought the story of Shikhandi to contemporary audiences Foize Jalali Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that's not the theme for today but we can do it and lastly words will never do justice to this phenomenon who is also late

[00:02:55] So yes we have a very multi-talented performer who became India's first globally recognized drag artist we do have Rani Kohinoor coming in but she'll come in when she comes in Thank you all three of you for being here

[00:03:12] Right okay start off a little bit with just like what were the first steps into queer storytelling for y'all and since y'all I mean like you did mention maybe we'll start with you since you said Vikram was your first interaction as a producer So what was that how did it happen how did it come about how did those choices happen in the first place I think for me most experience with Gacy has largely just been very organic never thought through things

[00:03:39] What came, took, took, took, took, took, did you know no template no plan as such do I try to be a little structured today but back then not So I started Gacy also because one felt lack of lesbian narratives So my understanding was very low gender sexuality and I'm talking about 2008

[00:04:03] So when you don't see anything online, you thought you should start with yourself and then I got more people and then organically grew Then we started with an event and which was actually part of Mumbai pride there was another organization that used to do open mic and they didn't say that So then we said that we'll do it, me and another team member and that's when we started doing open mics So Mumbai pride was something that existed This is 2010 or 11 Right

[00:04:33] Many of you are not born then I guess but yeah and we did open mic and through one of the open mics I met Vikram and Vikram came to me and said you know for this particular like one segment I want to do on drag queen And that time there was no drag at least you know in our the way drag performances you see today in metro cities

[00:04:58] Asif Ali Baig was performing this drag queen piece which had written and the audience seemed to be loving it That's when Sakshi came up to me and said if you want to build this into a whole show I'll produce it So it was like a remarkable you know and then of course then I met Pooja and then we said let's do drag kings Right And that's when all that but so tape is actually Gentleman's Club so Tape is a precursor to Gentleman's Club

[00:05:23] It's almost the same show we just had a different name earlier and then we were premiering in the NCPA so we had to change the name and then we decided to call it the Gentleman's Club But tape was not the beginning of your journey in terms of the story telling I know of course you were a journal you are a journalist and you were also associated with Bombay Dost Yes At some point yeah so I kind of edited two issues of Bombay Dost Like 2002 was when the last issue of Bombay Dost

[00:05:49] It had stopped coming out but we always remembered it as a very important chronicle I've never seen an issue of it right but I thought that this is such a remarkable thing in Bombay I'm going to go to the railway station and I'm going to try and find this and they're going to always get it from somewhere inside because they always hide it But I never found that and when I came back to I was in the UK for a bit so when I came to India I kind of asked where is this magazine and said it's not been on since 2002 It had shut down or shut down? Okay

[00:06:17] But then the Hamsafat Trust I kind of met them during the first Mumbai Pride and I said could I edit this magazine because totally completely newbie Newbie energy and they said yes because they had funding from the UNDP So it had shut down and then you kind of revived it? Yes with the Hamsafat Trust for a couple of issues and then of course they continued after that as well But the two editions that you worked on were the last or were there more after that? No, no after that it continued It did continue

[00:06:46] Yeah I discovered theatre after that Which we'll come to but you also, Gacy also had a zine I mean Gacy does many things But we do have a publishing, I mean we do publish a lot of books on and off For the longest time we did have the Gacy zine Okay But then we ventured into children's books so we have two children books also Yes Now we are working with the publishing house on a book so not self publishing

[00:07:14] But yeah, we want to continue with the zine but We don't get the Roti Roti But yeah, we did And Vikram, how did theatre happen? Interesting because when I came to Bombay I became quite friendly with Deepa Gailot Right Because we started this kind of thing together like film impressions and stage impressions Stage impressions, yes of course And I think she recommended my name to Sunil Shanbagh to talk about writing a play

[00:07:44] Okay So just out of the blue And we, when I met Sunil, we really got along like a house on fire But that play never came about Then I contributed some pieces to stories of the song Okay So then of course as you know that show went on for at least 150 shows So you're always constantly backstage But the reviewing for stage impressions started after? Around the same time So when I came in here, the first way to interact was to write about it I didn't know there was necessarily a lacunae for that material

[00:08:14] There was, it was, yeah In publishing, when I was working with the Hindu for the longest time I had a theatre column and we also did a lot of previews and curtain raises Right But they didn't necessarily like reviews Because it's like that event has already happened While you're writing about it And the erection happened when? 2019 is when I made a play on Iranian asylum seekers Who were queer, who were seeking asylum in the UK

[00:08:42] Based on certain experiences or stories that I had heard when I was in the UK myself Which was called what? Those Left Behind Things Those Left Behind Things Yes of course Foise Yes Your journey And also, I mean of course Not necessarily your journey into the theatre Because that's been happening for a while But your curiosity and interest in queer storytelling And some of the topics that you chose And I know of Shikhandi certainly And Strictly Unconventional What started it?

[00:09:13] So, I want to say that I'm for the underdog And for me to tell stories about the underdog is very exciting And I was reading the Mahabharata And the story of Shikhandi And then also A. Klavya Which I'm going to do now The stories that kind of came up But the Shikhandi because it's such a small part But it's there So why is it there? And then I wanted to kind of explore that And my interest in queer theatre as such

[00:09:42] Actually, I was in college in the States And everybody Like it was a very queer college also Everybody in positions were, you know, queer Lesbian, gay Like an eye-opening thing Because everybody was so open about conversations around it And I think that kind of influenced me a little bit But I also went to an all-girls school So there's always that There is, there is I mean we can shy away from that But it's true And our principal in school

[00:10:12] Ms. Darisha and Pearl used to direct plays Where it was always female protagonists So I think for me It's a lot about that One is like the underdog Always having female protagonists But also looking at queerness in a more integrated way And not as something outside the norm So to speak So Shikhandi was a story that I was very excited by And then I went to Germany I was in a program there that I wrote a one-woman show about Which was on Shikhandi

[00:10:42] And then when I came back I decided to make it a full-length play And then get people involved So I think for me it's more like By the way Telling the stories about People who are less noticed People who are the underdogs But have made a difference And I want to bring those stories And I think it was integrated into the world of the play Which again for me it's more important to kind of Quote-unquote normalize it Rather than saying like

[00:11:12] Oh my God you know it's like But if you integrated into it Then it becomes part of the lived experience of the audience also So the audience is not looking at it as something outside It's part of the world that you're creating And they are connecting with the characters As they are accepting them as they are And they see themselves in that So whether it's queer, straight, whatever But the queerness Has been there from Shikhandi In Shikhandi Bone of Contention

[00:11:41] Strictly Unconventional After Lies Runaway Brides They all have either queer characters or queer themes And for me it's not Novel It's more like It's part of life I think the observation period that you all have had Is longer in terms of the evolution that has happened And I was reading somewhere where it was like you know Now say in not necessarily in films but just in content per se

[00:12:10] Like you know queer characters have moved from being punchlines to protagonists You know and there has been So what Talk a little bit about the What has evolved really From the time that you started Because like you said that back then you were not even seeing any kind of You know material out there about lesbians for example But now there is quite a bit of it And I'm talking purely about India Not so much about abroad Not enough about India Yeah so that actually like what do you think both of you

[00:12:38] I mean so Casey has been around for what 18 years now Right From the time I started the blog to the company to where we are today And a lot of Gacy's journey in queerness In the world of queerness and largely in the queerness in India My own experience is pretty much parallel to it Like I grew with it right My own understanding of gender, sexuality and queerness and intimacy and relationships Everything has evolved with Gacy

[00:13:08] And I keep telling people at times that What I see today I could have never even imagined A few years ago And I'm not just talking about from the lens of The work that we end up doing under Gacy But even in personal space right Like I live with my girlfriend We've been living together for six years now Our families know we go on holidays together And I still remember this one little moment This was just before COVID

[00:13:34] Her mum had come down and we had come to her house for dinner And I had my sister-in-law there My sister there, her mum there And some of my lesbian friends And I had to like take a step back Pinch myself and be like Is this really happening? Like you know because I had resigned to the fact That I would love to get in bits and pieces every three-three years And I would love to see that At least I'm getting there And here we are So even with Gacy, like the kind of

[00:14:03] The work that we ended up doing I was like my dream That we will do in Prithvi One day We had to start in the club With the gentleman's club And before that You know the open mic The drag show and the polyamory show The skit that we did Both were in clubs And then last year we did it at Prithvi And I was like Wow, like you know Our stories are here too At least for Gacy, right? And I feel And again, you come with a lot of privilege I accept that

[00:14:32] A lot of things that one has been able to do with Gacy Is also because my privilege comes with me And I've been able to do that And I've been fortunate And it's with the support of family Gentleman's club was done in 2016 2016 And yeah, and like today I think we've produced quite a few queer plays And I get to watch a lot more queer plays And the kind of stories, right? And I want to get back to what Fawza says At the end of the day It depends on who you are making a story

[00:15:01] If you are making a straight audience So your story is different from the lens And with Gacy, what we try to do is We also try to make things which are for queer people Right? Like I'll put myself in it What will I have fun at watching? Because I have seen so much in my 18 years Like is there something exciting for me to watch? So I will try to focus a little bit on that But then I will also say Okay, we have to mainstream ourselves

[00:15:30] The queer community today is the fact that we are evolving Like I mean, I'll give you a small example Like perhaps some article we've written on our website two years ago Today may not make sense Today could be problematic because our language is involved Our understanding of queerness is involved So there is just so much to be told So I will take the superficial level also I'll take the deep one and I'll take the very deep one also I'm ready for it all

[00:15:58] And Vikram, I mean obviously the evolution has been as she was saying And there is that much more exposure now Do you think the obstacles have lessened? You know what? Just before I answer that I just want to talk about this theory And I have this multiverse theory of You know, there are lots of parallel cultures In which queer people live across the world Like for example, you might have representation in Indian cinema You might have representation in independent Hollywood films

[00:16:28] And then you might have representation in theatre So when I was doing this theatre appreciation class for drama school, Mumbai And I was trying to introduce them to queer theatre And creating these slides And we got around a hundred plays that we could talk about And they were not like the scraps that we get in films But for example, it didn't have the reach So most people didn't know that these plays exist Right? So when Cock happened for you

[00:16:57] It was very momentous because you were seeing our stories on Prithvi But I've been seeing them for 15 years But it's just people don't talk about it It's integrated But it was interesting to take it out and say Look at this, this is representation So in terms of the creation I had a completely different approach I wanted to tell a story It just happened to be a queer theme It's not something that you said Oh, I'm going to go out and make this particular kind of play In fact, a journalist had once asked me

[00:17:24] Why do you make plays in this genre? There are stories that you feel some compulsion to create They just happen to be in many cases queer plays If you look at my output over the last few years But there are lots of different stories that I want to say That might not be coming under this umbrella Except for the fact that there's always the gaze of the maker That even if I had no queer characters in a play Explicit queer characters

[00:17:52] That gaze is there of the makers That's always going to be part of the mix So from the point of view of obstacles When it comes to your, it's just your own motivation Yes, of course you have to kind of figure out how to sell tickets But sometimes, you know, people like You know, we didn't know it's going to have 85 shows Right? So it just went on It kind of had resonance with the different audiences And that's when you start examining What are the stories that I'm seeing?

[00:18:20] Because Postcards from Kalabas started with a lot of gay male stories But my audiences were mostly women So then, from then onwards, whichever project that I came up with It always had a strong, not in that project, but the next few projects Had a strong feminine presence and trust So I also want to talk about resistance from the outside world But I'm just taking a pause because we've got something from the outside world That's just joined us So here she finally is

[00:18:55] What in your view has been the evolution in the last two decades? In terms of storytelling? And has there actually been any? So Hi everyone Hi Happy Pride to everybody Yay! Good job! Yes Which is very pertinent to your question Is we need more regional cinema That connects to the pulse of the audience

[00:19:25] I think because in privileged corridors People are more or less sensitized anyway Or at least have been exposed to the idea of transness or queerness So I do believe that it is very very essential that You have regional cinema that normalizes characters and don't sensationalize them Like for example, I don't want everything to be about my pronouns I don't want everything to be

[00:19:53] I don't want a category like the LGBT creator of the year or LGBT singer Like Suni Di Ma'am when she sang Pari Ho Mai With Me She's like, I don't sing transgender song This is not straight song How do I do this? She's singing a note I'm singing a note We sing harmonies and that's the beauty of music I also think that in mainstream when we kind of sensationalize our presence Sometimes some people just want to be normal

[00:20:23] They just want to They don't want everything They don't want the spotlight on them I'm not those people I need the red carpet I need my chauffeur I need all of that But But then you also for the cishet public have a Rekha Rekha was the first drag queen Rekha ji has given you Umaraujaan She's given you Koonbhari Maang

[00:20:50] She's given you Madame X And we're in 2026, you know, kind of regressing and making I don't know what sort of cinema anymore So, um Sometimes I just feel like Yeah, it's You know, people think that we are made fun of And I'm just looking at some of the films and I'm like Oh, oh, this was not satire They were serious I don't know when to laugh or cry

[00:21:19] So, um, I guess the jokes on everyone You know, um, you know when things will actually change Is when you have more representation of women And trans people And sensitive and emotionally Um, you know, uh, men with high emotional quotients Behind the camera In the crew writing better characters You know, the cinematographers have to have an idea about what they're making

[00:21:49] Because, um, I just think that, you know, art has Is sort of losing its essence in a way where Um, I mean, of course, the At the very nucleus of it I think if you're an artist You don't really It doesn't matter to you What others are doing Or what others But I think it should matter to us And I think that With whatever little change we can make with our existence We make that

[00:22:18] So what is the ideal scenario, you think That, you know, where Whether it happens or not, we don't know But what would be the utopian Kind of state of affairs For representation of like queer storytelling Enough money Yeah Sorry My brother keeps saying money talks bullshit work But that's another thing But no, I think, see While, you know, we want to mainstream things

[00:22:48] We want to make everything normalize We want to do everyday conversation Yes, this is aspirational, right? And our aspirations also keep changing with time as you grow Um, I still like our bubble I still want to nurture that bubble While we work outside the bubble So I'm still, I will go for that LGBT category I want to keep something that is just to ourselves I don't know, maybe a bit nostalgic or something like that But I want to keep to it

[00:23:17] And, um, but on the other hand I also want to mainstream it Because if we mainstream it, we will get money And if we get money, then we will keep this bubble So I think from that lens Um, so, so coming to your question I would say money is the, is the prime factor Which is fair, yeah, absolutely Um, and I was telling earlier also in the room that, you know, with Gacy At least I've been able to monetize quite a few things But theatre is something that I find it hard

[00:23:45] Um, as, and I'm looking at it purely from the lens of a producer Right? Like I work with brands But to get brands to do theatre without Interfering in the theatre sensibilities Without interfering in the makers sensibilities, right? Like, brands will say real And I'm like, I'll go with them and say This is real He was not happy about it Um, but so, so I try to

[00:24:13] Make sure that we have enough from the other things So that I am able to keep theatre the way It wants to be kept Inside or outside the bubble, we will monetize the theatre That doesn't matter, that's the bane of our existence But yeah, so you know, queer material is not monolithic, right? So you're going to continue having a lot of edgy storytelling Even while you have, like Sakshi was telling us In the green room about this verticals

[00:24:42] About boy love that's become very popular And it's all made by straight people Right So, so it's, that's the mainstreaming And it's the flattening of a certain kind of representation But you're going to have edgy material that's going to continue for a while And I operate in that area where, you know, there's certain kinds of stories Said with a certain kind of sensibility That we still haven't seen enough of Even when it comes to feminist storytelling

[00:25:10] Even when it comes to, like you said, men haven't been talked about In realistic ways as well, right? So, there's a lot of work that we're not anywhere near this utopian Nor do we want, I think we're operating in this The edginess has to stay there Like, you know, last year we had Sabar Bonda Which is such an interestingly beautiful, yet so powerful We never knew that this story could have been told to us In such a beautiful way

[00:25:38] And that takes the regional box as well, which is a big move in that sense Yes, and even this year there's Bapia, right? Which is amazing Yes, with Girish Kulkarni Yes Those are new kinds of voices, you know Those are a new way of telling the stories Is there a danger, for example, of two things One is, you know, kind of making it like a fad-like thing That it's cool to do this right now Because it feels like the need of the hour

[00:26:06] And also, is there a danger of like, say, tokenism? If you ask me, I don't think it is tokenism I don't think it's a fad I feel the younger content creators Who are now getting into vertical content Microdramas, microfiction for YouTube or Instagram For that matter They are from the younger lot, right? And I believe that the queer community

[00:26:33] The queer audience and the Gen Z and the Gen Alphas Somewhere overlap And I feel that it is perceived That the Gen Z's are queer inclusive And come with queer sensibilities In some aspect of their lives So for them, creating this content Is not really like, oh, I'm doing something cool It's, we're seeing our surroundings We're doing it So they are putting out content that is

[00:27:03] Watchable for everybody So, I mean, if you look at the It's a lot of affirmative content But there's a lot of problematic content as well And so, you know, they're learning in real time And then you also have the great comment universe Where you actually have people calling out in real time as well So I think I'm constantly seeing a barrage A surfeit of material Since now with this conversation Not just here, it's about what we see on our timelines Yeah

[00:27:32] And sometimes, like, you know Just yesterday I saw this reel about a person Who's talking about homosexuality In terms that we have already debunked in the 1970s So, you know, they're coming back from the woodwork So, you know, as long as people are getting emboldened to say things All kinds of people are going to say things And then you just have to keep And then of course you can give the kudos to the ones Who seem to be getting it right So, I feel I see a lot of people educating each other In all directions

[00:28:01] Sorry, but I'm talking largely from the lens of storytelling I'm not looking at content creators I'm talking about people who Put fiction stories on their Instagram or on their YouTube And boy love series have picked up a lot It's not that it wasn't before Now we go to YouTube, there is I think Romil or something it is called Jugal But now it's picked up again because of heated rivalry Right? And I'm seeing a lot of straight men content creators

[00:28:30] Who have now jumped into or have been perhaps for a while doing fiction stories Fiction, you know, 60 second or 2 miniters on their Instagram Now getting into boy love Because boy love as a genre has now become popular in India I don't know very much about series and things like that I only talk about theatre and the things that I watch And I think it's also a bit unfair to say tokenism or fad or anything like that

[00:28:58] Because I think the new generation of people creating Are coming from such a strong place of creating stuff that they feel strongly about So whether the product is good, bad, ugly, it doesn't matter I feel like I also, whatever Now I don't judge Performances or creations Because I know the creation process is so much work That I feel like, okay, I want to understand what they were thinking

[00:29:28] Maybe it didn't come out Maybe the LGBTQ thing seemed a bit out of place But for me it's more interesting to see what people are trying to say Especially the younger generation of theatre makers What do they want to say? What is important to them? Like Sakshi was saying And a lot of them are very openly talking about a lot of things So I don't think it's... I wouldn't call it tokenism or fad It may seem like that Because at a time, especially in theatre

[00:29:54] It does happen that a lot of minds are thinking similarly And a lot of content comes out that is similar So I think it's just then your taste for that thing Like I don't like that, that's fine And now I'm in a place where I can say that Okay, yeah, that's not for me necessarily But what is that person trying to do or say Is for me more important I like that they are with it I like that everyone who's doing

[00:30:23] What they have to for their algorithm And for their engagement They are doing a great job, yeah I mean, a lot of times you hear You hear about Oh my God, this film has done so well And then you want to go to watch it and theatres are empty So that's also a PR gimmick only You have to read the room If there is anything to read in that room But I just think that this generation is very with it I love them I'm always for See, if you just put your hands up and you know

[00:30:53] Don't give them the benefit of conversation Then it's again a generational trauma that we are passing on to this generation I don't want them to feel the pressure because I think social media is a very democratic medium And as Sakshi said rightly For them that is mainstream For them to create that content, that process For them, it's a huge deal It's a big deal And good luck, yeah

[00:31:21] And congratulations to everybody I see so many regional Actually again, I'm going to go back to regional Because why not I enjoy some of the regional content on Instagram I think it's kick-ass I think it's so badass It's so kick-ass And they just I think the way they maneuver it is so much smoother for me I just think Also maybe because

[00:31:50] there's not all this performative vocalism It's just what it is And they just say it And then if somebody says How do you say it? And all that And they'll be like I just say it like that I don't know if you know it It's so It's so genuine And I just love it And I think that the authenticity is what sells So when we are talking about say characters that are being written from the community In terms of artists to play those

[00:32:20] You know, like we are talking about a lot of straight people playing queer parts But Where do you all stand on that? Like is there enough representation in terms of you know, casting the right people for the right part? Or is that something that doesn't matter at all? When I was cast for the role in Thank You For Coming They auditioned all the queer people that they could and they could find but they also wanted

[00:32:51] sort of intersections which I was very impressed by you know, honestly they tested different queer people and were ready to kind of change the graph of the character based on whoever performs that audition better which I thought was very good but I also see that that when for example there have been even trans people

[00:33:21] who have been cast or gay people or lesbian women or bisexual people that have been cast as heterosexual people but we've not celebrated that as much but also then celebrate there are so many queer people that are doing amazing things amazing there are queer writers, there are queer directors there are queer cinematographers there are queer sound men there are queer light and sound engineers we don't give them too much credit I don't see it for me

[00:33:51] and it may be a little bit different as a director, producer or even when I'm casting for me it's the actor is the actor meeting the role so for me my auditions are open my space is queer friendly it's woman friendly it's safe everything I just choose the best actor or actors and I have no problems with

[00:34:20] women playing male characters ever or vice versa I just feel like for me the centre of because I think also I look at it from a theatre performance point of view and what I can make the actor do and how capable that actor is so it's immaterial to me honestly and this might be also privilege of just being cis you know

[00:34:47] that for me it's about just saying okay that person did that really well I would love to cast them in this part regardless of but I have also been on the side where I for example for Shikhandi I did go to the Kinnaar Maa Trust and try to audition and auditioned the women there but that then on a financial level that was not working out

[00:35:17] because the one that I wanted to cast she was like Didi you have to pay me 400 bucks a day because I'm the only earning member and I was self producing and I didn't have that and if I were to pay her then I'd have to pay everybody at that rate I know it sounds very meager but I didn't have that I didn't know enough trans actors at that point While we are looking at queer actors I feel somewhere one needs to also and not just actors I'm saying like you know people who work behind the scenes your writers

[00:35:47] your lyricist cinematographer editor all these people and I believe a lot that you know while you have it on stage you should have queer people behind the stage also I feel the skill building part is where we are lacking I feel somewhere but there's no aspiration you know because you don't see like today you have at least two-four gay people's name popular media and cinema you have to tell me a lesbian name tell me when you see

[00:36:16] then you aspire it's as simple as that few years ago for the longest time even with Gacy I used to stay behind the scene I was very happy very happy that no one knows who is going to be and I always wanted that but I realized that it is very important for those again from the privileged space who can afford to be out especially when it comes to queer women is that we need more people leading queer people to be seen for others to aspire

[00:36:46] see basically within the microcosm of theatre that we operate in we have now been seeing a growing pool of queer performers right and it's they might not be out in the public domain as such but we within the community are knowledgeable about them and they don't want to only play queer parts of course some of them want to be considered for certain parts and you know lived experience that's a very special word but sometimes it is valuable for me as a maker for certain aspects of this character

[00:37:15] that I don't want to explain you get it then you so sometimes I find that the queer actors are very valuable because they get what I'm trying to say however lived experience is one of the factors craft is a very important like you need to have the craft to essay this performance as well so it's a mix of certain things they all be I'm always in conversation with a lot of different actors and it's something that you have to consider because like I said

[00:37:43] like Sushant said that you have a whole range you know of parts that queer performers have to play and we have to acknowledge that work not just straight jacket them into pun unintended into these kinds of roles right? there aren't many people coming out and saying they're queer because they're scared it's not a very happy place they're not farting rainbows and butterflies all the time I would also wish that

[00:38:13] people that came before me and were my mentors would come out to the world and show themselves before they pop it you know and I would want them to be celebrated for their queerness there are many there are many in the industry that they don't want to talk about it I built my castle with the stones that were thrown at me some people don't survive it I have a question for Sakshi I mean because I agree with what Rani said and I kind of agree with what you're saying but I also know

[00:38:42] enough queer people who don't want to make their queerness the centre of their artistic life so for example they want their art to be the centre of who they are rather than their queerness and you were saying you know maybe they should put their queerness first but I think I do know enough queer people who don't want that who don't want to be seen as so I just it's just a question and it's not because I understand because for me for example

[00:39:11] my art is the centre of what I do right and queerness comes after that and I understand it for other people as well and I also understand people who want to make queerness the first because maybe they've struggled with it so hard that they want that to be the essence of who they are so I think there's both sides of it but I don't know if I'm asking you a question or I'm answering my own question I don't know again I don't have a right answer for it

[00:39:41] but this is what I believe I think it's a sense of privilege as simple as that right if we all are equal platform then there's no difference that you're gay or not your art your art your right right but we're not equal on the platform like for instance a very simple thing like for the longest time I've heard saying you know and especially about gay men right they cannot stay monogamous you know it can't be they can't stay monogamous

[00:40:11] right but I'm like you know like how many divorce rates are these I'm like what are you doing first we're being monogamous that that society that surrounding that we're on a platform where we don't have to question our sexuality we love who we're loving etc I agree then you judge then sit and judge by all means but until we're not there I will push my gay agenda forward I will always

[00:40:41] like my girlfriend says she's like you don't come into the room and your gay agenda is dancing and I'm like you know what I am hence I say the people who are in a privileged space if they can come out it's great I'm not putting a gun on their head anyone anybody who wants to come out it's their personal choice Sakshi you had said somewhere that you know you want it to be such that that pride month concept that we're only in June and it has to kind of go beyond that it has to

[00:41:09] you know it's not a one month thing before we move to the next section to not have this and to kind of you know move out of this you know what's one thing we need to do and not necessarily the onus being on you because you're doing enough clearly yeah so what do we need to do I think the onus is on everybody we will be more out more active and I think you need to be there with the stage with the mic and the carpet and everything and say come on

[00:41:40] and nice wigs okay nice wigs don't forget paysa paysa we have to run our plays all through the year so it's not pride month pride month there might be some infusion some extra events and stuff but mostly you have to continue working throughout the year in whichever expression you have so that pride also reminds you about this whole this journey that people before us have had and I think it's not just you know like a fancy dress competition all the time I think it's also a protest

[00:42:09] it is you are protesting against certain ideas and even if certain big brands come forward and do pride campaigns that might may or may not make their counterparts think about it any questions guys anyone here yes yes yes Dion please first of all it was so wonderful and heartwarming to listen to all of you thank you so much and I have a question for Rani as a queer person

[00:42:39] I really would love to know what you think about it is I'm an actor I'm a singer songwriter I've won 11 national slams in Asia poetry slams in Asia I've done five major commercials so far and now all the auditions I get they're like we want you to behave like Ori we want you to have some letchak on you you know this this thing has just become a part of me even though I've done like straight passing work professionally

[00:43:10] and as a singer songwriter I find myself very stuck because I know the kind of music I make now it's you know you know you know you know we we grew up reimagining ourselves as the girl or the guy whatever here I am making music of being a gay boy about being in love with a gay boy and having terrible heart breaks with gay boys but

[00:43:37] I'm not able to figure out what what will help me stay because I don't find support from the community and for the last two years I have sat outside offices of labels be it Tiger Baby, be it Jugaard, be it Balfour. Today I was in front of Spotify's office just wanting to be seen and heard because I know the kind of art

[00:44:01] I am creating is something I wish I grew up with but where do I take it who wants to hear it so how does an artist stay an artist and just survive and try to be a Rani somewhere in the future. Can I give you a hug after this? Absolutely. And then also the promise that you can use my platform to do whatever the fuck you want let's let's write let's let's do a song together okay

[00:44:27] I can promise you a monthly viewership of at least 20 million but but I then then you take it and fly that's what mother does so I'm a young mother I'm Santur Mammy and I just feel that it's it's world over and you if you're ready to sell your soul I can give you a couple of numbers which I didn't

[00:44:56] ever call but if that is what you feel is how your art is going to show I don't think that's the way it's not so you make up your mind see there is and then there is no qualms in saying you want the do you want to reach more people through your art or you just want to reach more people or you want to just do you know continue with your art and then okay you know you somebody is giving you the

[00:45:22] time of day and you get to do shows and you get it's on it's on you so I think when you have streamlined your energy into what you want to do very shamelessly also go and sign a contract it's uh but let's do I'm honest let's do something together I love you happy pride hello hi um I just wanted to ask like we don't have a lot of regional language that talks about

[00:45:51] being queer we have we barely have words for like what sex is it's either Sanskrit or it's uh straight up like something really really weird uh but then how do we start including uh like you talked about how we need more regional cinema and I completely agree with that how do we start making being queer

[00:46:16] also be like you know being Marathi Gujati whatever it is you know how would we bring that language in it is actually uh may I just say that the Indian regional languages are um by function more accepting of uh or actually gender neutral uh okay they were going there they were there we don't know that they were there we don't know about it but if we talk with anyone with anyone with anyone

[00:46:43] so they come from Marathi we are very inclusive Marathi is most inclusive uh coming to your regional content part of it uh you're correct the language is inaccessible you know but I'll tell you one very simple thing that we faced

[00:47:07] it is so I got my creative head uh her name is Priya Dali and we make content in the office with our team etc and I get her she's a Marashtan and I get her to say queer sentences or queer words in Marathi right we've done couple of episodes we have like we've kept it as a series and the first few comments that we started getting well many said it's great yeah go and then it was like why Marathi

[00:47:36] in our office we have 20 year olds we have been in Bombay now they will base their understanding their access they will base it on that I don't expect them to go all out we try our best but I also want them to be themselves and enjoy and have fun like I also want to like I keep telling them that I want to come to the office and have fun um so I feel sometimes it's a bit asking for too much but I doesn't mean that it does not exist

[00:48:04] I am actually Dion willing to completely sacrifice my slow burn section if you come up and sing something for us yeah come come because I feel like that might just be the best end to this episode but uh I wrote a song called Ahista I've written many songs

[00:48:31] but I'll sing you Ahista it's about a boy I love did you ever love someone did you have to let go of that person yes I am trying Ahista Ahista okay so I'll sing you it's bridge I'm a bit nervous uh and it's a fresh wound and this is the first time I'm singing it out loud and this is the first time I'm singing it to God

[00:49:00] can if I'm honouring it, I don't know if I'm as Godное,

[00:49:13] I just want to hear better, but I don't know if I'm looking at it My love, every country

[00:49:42] A little, a little I can't see you A little, a little I can't see you

[00:50:17] Thank you for having me. Thank you for letting me sing. I'll actually, I'll put it together and then you all can think about it and say it. In terms of, and this could be stage or it could be screen, in terms of the most authentic portrayal and representation that you have seen of the community. So I need your best and your absolute worst and cringiest. That's the fun part. In cringe, you can go so much. Yes, anyone who remembers. Girlfriend, Ram Gopalwarma. Oh God!

[00:50:48] I'm doing work, it's okay. Was that the one with Ashi? Isha Gopikar and Amrita Arora. I mean, I don't know if it's best for people or not, but I did watch a while back on Hotstar, there was a show called Human. And in that, it's by Moses, which I just found out recently. He had directed it. She probably is in that. Yes. And both the leading actresses were queer. One was a lesbian and one was bisexual.

[00:51:16] But I just felt so good watching it because it showed queer people in shades of grey. So you have the negative, the manipulative, the vulnerable, all those aspects. And I thought it was, it was, and it was never promoted as a queer show. It's just that you watched it and you were like, Oh God. So I thought that was, that was good. I'll go back to the nineties. There's this film called the cringe version is Must Kalandar. Oh, with Anupam Geir. Yes.

[00:51:46] Playing the... And supposedly he played the first... Pinku. Pinku. Pinku. Yeah. It's the worst possible thing you'll ever see. And you can check it out on YouTube. Now we can laugh about it. Right? In terms of the good ones, I really like this documentary called Summer in My Veins by Nishit Saran. I mean, he comes out to his mother on camera and her unscripted reaction. It's just remarkable because she, she's going through a range of things and it's just captured that.

[00:52:16] Okay. Best? Five, I think. I was just going to say. You have to come up with something else. Any owner film for me is a good film. I think whether it's long form, short form, I love it. Any owner film. But I think that, you know, I would say My Brother Nikhil because I watched it literally with my full family. It was shown, it was, it was UA. So I thought that was very, very iconic for its times. I mean, it's so relevant even today. Say a good stage one.

[00:52:45] A good stage one. I think my... I would go with Runaway Bride. Yeah! Thank you! I think it is, I mean, not just for the queerness of it, but people, whenever it comes next, please go. It's the funniest thing you will see. It's, it's chaos. It's madness. But it is so much fun and it has so many layers. I think... Oh, I did, I did, I really loved his, the Iranian queer one. Those left behind. Yes, those left behind.

[00:53:15] I really liked it. Those left behind things is done or does it still run? No, it is. We did 15 shows. We did 10 shows, yeah. Yeah. And you'll do it again? We won't. But I don't know if he'll run now. Attention span. In all your stage impressions days? I'm just, because you know, there's so many of them, but I'll just point out Sharanya's Nava, where she got nine trans women to have the different shades of the Navarasa. And they're all real stories.

[00:53:43] And you know, when you think of, when you say non-actors on stage, you think that you're making an allowance for an absence of craft. But these people brought a rawness and authenticity that elevated that play to real art. Thank you. Thank you. But we're going to end it with... You'll have to have the last word. We know this. What? To sing? What should I sing? I'll sing my...

[00:54:11] The song that I debuted in Bollywood is... If you don't sing, then you don't sing. But it's in the house. It's in the house. It's in the clubs. It's in all places. It's in the marriage. Because everybody likes to be... Feel like a pari. So I'm going to just sing.

[00:54:40] Thank you. Louder. But I'm not looking for me. I'm not looking for the light. The light of the rain is the light. The light of the rain is the light.

[00:54:58] It's in the light. F