Redefining Luxury: The Masai Mara Experience with Louise Cottar

[00:00:08] According to Cottar's safaris, there's something about the wilderness that makes you realize you are part of something much bigger where the human spirit can unapologetically roam free. Whether it's the thrilling union of danger and wonder or the reconnection to our primal past, there's something enchanting about an African safari.

[00:00:33] Cottar's is anything but your average African safari experience. They are a multiple, award-winning, 100-year-old, fifth-generation, family-run luxury African safari company. And in addition to providing life-changing experiences, they have a mission of tremendous positive impact on the local culture and wilderness surrounding them. I had the sincere pleasure of speaking with co-owner and managing director Louise Cottar.

[00:01:03] Louise's story is fascinating. She has been a driving force of what makes Cottar's different. 26 years ago, she started as managing director and has since spearheaded much of the evolved mission of positive impact that is so much of what makes Cottar successful today. In addition to working for Cottar's, she has worked for 25 years in Somalia's public and private sectors in strategic planning, fragile states' engagement and peace processes.

[00:01:31] I invite you on a mesmerizing journey through the lens of Cottar's. From my own wild heart to yours, prepare to be nourished. All right. So welcome to the Postcard Travel Show, Louise. We are so happy to have you here today. I'm just so excited because you have a phenomenal job. You get to experience what people only dream of.

[00:01:58] I think most of us only get to dream what you have experienced and felt and seen in your everyday life. Louise, where are you joining us from today? Today, I am joining you from the UK. So I'm just here briefly. I've got a house here and also live in Kenya. So Louise, let's get into it.

[00:02:17] In 2019, Qatar's Safari service, one of the very first registered safari companies offering superior big game hunting and safaris outfitting throughout Africa. India was established. It's family ran five generations, 100 years, a safari company with extraordinary positive impact. Let's start at the beginning.

[00:02:41] Tell me if you can briefly a little bit more of this incredible inception story. So actually, the family came from America. A gentleman called Charles Cotter read about Theodore Roosevelt, the president at the time, his safari travels in Africa. He wrote a book which was called Game Trails of Africa.

[00:03:02] And Charles was so inspired that he got on a boat and he went from America, from the sort of Texas, Oklahoma panhandle all the way to Africa and spent several months there and loved it so much. He went back to America and moved his entire family, including his father, to Kenya in 1909. Actually, he set up a business, but it was not registered because, you know, a few years later, there was World War One.

[00:03:29] It wasn't appropriate to perhaps be doing a luxury safari business during that time. So eventually they registered the company in 1919. We believe it's sort of one of the oldest companies in East Africa. We have had different iterations of it over the years. So our current company is not the exact version of the original one. But over five generations, the family have been in Africa and they've been doing different things.

[00:03:57] So when Charles came, you know, people didn't come to take photographs. That wasn't really a thing then. They came to do expeditions to find new places, although, of course, they had already been found by many others that lived in Africa. But at that time, that sort of explorer mentality was there. And they also at that time did extraction of wildlife for zoos in America and for museums as well.

[00:04:25] So initially they were explorers. They did some hunting and took clients for hunts on safari. So very much extractive. And then were one of the first to do films and photography in Kenya. So over time, they've guided players like Osa and Martin Johnson, who did a book called Married Adventure and various famous films of the time.

[00:04:52] Some of the first black and white films and color films in Kenya. So they were innovators of their age in that realm. And since then, the family have always been sort of at the front line of doing things a bit differently. There's a really deep history to unpack here.

[00:05:14] While generations of the Cotters family have been present in Kenya for over 100 years, their influence and contribution has looked significantly different with each generation. Can you talk more about this? Yeah. So the family, you know, they started in one era and over the generations, Charles, his son, Mike, really took the business forward. And then from Mike, it went on to Glenn.

[00:05:40] And Glenn set up, Glenn and his wife, Pat, set up a camp in a place called Savo in Kenya in the 60s. And they said, you know, we're going to have people come not for hunting, but just to take photos. And everyone said at the time, oh, you're mad. No one will come on holiday just to take photos of animals. That's just not a thing. And of course, it's become what it is today, you know, with everyone wanting to come and take photographs and capture animals through their camera.

[00:06:08] They were one of the first to sort of, you know, develop vehicles that were open. So they've done a lot in the safari world to kind of push those boundaries in different quirky ways. And then Mike had a son called Calvin, who I married, and we set up the existing company in the late 90s. And, you know, 25 plus years later, we're still going strong and trying to also continue to push boundaries in a very constructive way.

[00:06:37] So the family have gone really from an extractive to now being very, very much social impact conservation orientated. So can you be a little bit more specific in how that guest expectation and experience changed and what we expected today? Yeah, so I mean, in Africa, many countries have hunting. Kenya does not.

[00:07:00] The family are very much now conservation orientated and don't believe in owning land and keeping communities out, but rather working with local communities. They're the ones that have preserved the wildlife in their area.

[00:07:14] So working with them and doing nowadays conservation community where the community own the land, we rent it from them and pay an amount that that is better than, say, other sources of income such as agriculture or cattle for that area. And try and use tourism for good, not just, you know, to save wildlife, but also to support communities in their development.

[00:07:41] I think that's so phenomenal, especially in today's world where we are really having to take a step back and look at tourism in a more enlightened light.

[00:07:52] And exactly why we sit at why I'm sitting here with you today is because of my passion for travel and also my disheartened mint in it traveling recently and seeing this this gross tourist experience that I've been receiving and seeing the locals upset and the travelers upset because the synergy isn't there. With that, also, there has to be a synergy of with the local land where they're giving you a gift and so that you're also giving a gift to them in coming to the country.

[00:08:21] So this is really, really incredible what you're creating in this equally synergistic environment where the traveler is fulfilled just as much as the local that provides it. I want to talk more about your personal story because it's just as interesting as all of this is going on. Yeah, so I left the UK when I was 18. I went to university in America.

[00:08:45] I studied six months in Kenya and just loved the country and eventually was recruited by the United Nations to work in the neighboring country, Somalia, which at that time it was just after Black Hawk Down. You know, it was a war zone. And I have had this strange dual career of working in a place like Somalia and also investing in tourism in Kenya.

[00:09:12] So two sides of Africa, you know, the underbelly and then the more sort of luxurious wildlife and nature piece. So I've had this interwoven career and I think one without the other would be very unbalanced, but both together kind of somehow steady me. And weirdly, the overlap, I think, is that both environments are fragile states in different ways, but there's still some similarities, right?

[00:09:39] So, you know, if there's too much exploitation, then there's conflict in both environments. If we don't take context, it can go terribly wrong. So I've really enjoyed actually the two different sides of my experience and using one to positively benefit the other. So your last name wasn't originally Kater.

[00:10:05] You are, you married into this, which brings another whole layer to this because we were talking about five generations of men that have ran, that's a hundred years, a hundred years of men and of a pure bloodline. And then you come in as an outsider, marry into this and then rise to the occasion and then are phenomenal in it.

[00:10:28] And also create this whole new archetype of a powerhouse of female energy into this space. So let's talk more about that. So I married Calvin, but I invested in. So my stake in the company is commercial rather than marriage. And we have very different skill sets. So Calvin's a phenomenal guide. He's a phenomenal community communicator. He's a great conservationist.

[00:10:57] And I come more from the business side of things. So we made a good team. We're no longer together. We haven't been together for 10 years in the sense of husband and wife, but we're still very much business partners and relying on each other's strengths. We have four kids, two from Calvin's previous marriage, boys, and two from our marriage, girls. So I am the CEO. And interestingly, our team, and it's not based on gender, but more based on definitely meritocracy.

[00:11:28] Interestingly, the top tier of our team are all women. So myself as a CEO, a COO, our manager, our marketing manager. We're all, you know, it's quite phenomenal. So we're trying to shake things up a little bit. And I do think that, you know, the male line, what was a thing? I'm not sure nowadays if it's relevant. And I don't know what the next generation will look like. Is it the kids, whatever their gender? Is it the community?

[00:11:57] You know, do we have community shareholding and stakeholding in our business? I think all are really compelling. You know, that chapter is yet to be written. I wouldn't say what the past needs to necessarily dictate the future, but there may be other family members that have different viewpoints on that. Outside of Qatar's, you have done a ton of work in the field of conflict mitigation, political processes, political economy, and security sector development. How has this contributed to your role?

[00:12:26] I think the issue of conservation is conflictual. Some players, particularly the West, want to, you know, keep the megafauna and protect and save the baby lions. And others think that they're pests. They're in the way of human development and so on. So I think if you're trying to address that issue, you've got to listen to all of the perspectives and find pathways through it. So I think my background has really helped in that space.

[00:12:52] And I think you've got to, you know, give compelling options that really address people's right to development and right to earn income and right to have value of certain things like wildlife. You know, if it's not valued, then it has no value. And at a local level, that's really important to understand. So an elephant may, you know, represent 50,000 tourism dollars, but it may cost someone from the local community $50,000 of their crops being destroyed.

[00:13:22] And if you don't understand that, those conflict points and the political issues around that, then you won't find solutions. Even if some of the subject matter is uncomfortable, you're not going to find solutions unless you delve into that space. Absolutely. So let's get into the heart of everything that you're doing at Cotter's.

[00:13:43] I had so much fun looking at your website these last couple of days and really getting because the imagery is gorgeous, of course, but it really does feel like a movie when you are checking out these beautiful places that you have to stay. And so talking about the romantic 1920s camp that has been the brainchild of you and your business partner, you've worked hard to prevent overtourism and make it an authentic experience.

[00:14:10] First, what is preventing overtourism to make an authentic experience mean? And can you begin with an overview of all the properties? So we have two properties in the Masai Mara in Kenya, which is where the great migration of 1.6 million animals, wildebeest and so on happens every year. We're on community land just outside the game reserve. We always set up to not be numbers.

[00:14:37] We focused on quality rather than quantity of guests, having more space for wildlife, more space for guests and less over-exploitation. It's not everyone's formula, but we decided that that was our, you know, sort of a high-cost, low-impact goal. And what we've done is specifically not focused just on the wildlife, which is perhaps the reason why most people buy a safari is they want to see the big five. They want to see the great migration.

[00:15:07] It is, you know, most definitely a selling point. But when people leave Africa, what they always talk about are the people, how kind they are, you know, how engaging they are. The other thing is that there's so much indigenous knowledge. There's so many different cultural components.

[00:15:26] And so we really try and showcase that, not for us expropriating it, but in ways where the community want to, they feel comfortable to, where it's not scripted and so on and so forth. And so we've done a lot in that field to, again, try and push those boundaries and be a little quirky and different. Of course, we offer the big five game drives. It's a given. Of course, we have amazing accommodations.

[00:15:52] So we have the 1920s camp, which is styled on sort of 1920s period. But of course, there's Wi-Fi throughout and electricity and hot water and all of that. But it's very theatrical. So you drive to the top of a hill. And there's this camp in the middle of nowhere with stonking views, with nothing in the view except wildlife and wild lands. And, you know, there's a gin bar there.

[00:16:21] And it's very quirky. And then we've got a villa. I built it initially as a private home. But people wanted to stay there. And without knowing, we sort of slowly put it into the marketplace for guests to come and stay. I don't know how it happened, but it won Best Private Villa in Africa at the World Travel Awards. And we hadn't even got a brochure at that stage. So it was quite organic in its growth. The villa's got five rooms.

[00:16:49] It has to be booked on an exclusive use. I get really excited by small things. We've got a hot tub, and that really excites me. But we've also got a 25-meter pool, which doesn't excite me because it means I then have to swim lots of laps. So, yeah, we've got those two. And it's only those two. We haven't decided to go corporate. We haven't decided to have circuits around the whole country.

[00:17:11] We've decided to really focus on one particular area and try and do it well for us, but also for community, for culture, and for commerce as well. I love how natural it is. It seems that you are the definition of just doing something you love than seeing what comes out of that, right? And it seems like the passion is more within creating something really incredible as opposed to getting awards, getting recognition, getting your name out there.

[00:17:40] And that's just different energy. Yeah, and I would say that even though it's been organic, it's also been very considered. So we've chosen carefully how to communicate what we do and how we do what we do. So I know we're going to be talking about it a bit later, but a lot of our offerings to our guests are very, very much curated for the context that we're in. And they're purposeful and they're impactful.

[00:18:09] We've done that hoping that that then creates that message rather than packaging it. We've really tried to go to the content itself and do that really well. How do you stay so grounded in who you are and not get swept? Because it's so easy to get, well, look what that person's doing. Look what that person's doing. How do you truly say, nope, this is us and we are quirky and we are different, but that's who we are?

[00:18:36] Success for me is not necessarily the bottom line. It's having a client that leaves and says, this was the most amazing experience of my life. Or having a staff member go from, you know, not speaking any English and five years later, standing up in London and presenting to 150 people and getting a stand up ovation. It's that kind of stuff that keeps me happy and grounded. It's not necessarily other things.

[00:19:04] I like to see success that's shared. Absolutely. I agree with you. There is a variety of experiences offered at Qatar's in addition to the safaris. What are the most significant experiences? So obviously people want to come for game drives. And, you know, in the Maasai Mara, most competitors offer game drives. Some offer game walks. Some may do some e-bikes. We do all of those.

[00:19:31] But actually during COVID, we kind of sat back and, you know, there is a lot of competitors in the Mara. There's probably too many properties in the area. We just sort of took a pause and thought, what are we doing and why are we doing it? Why, you know, and what could we do that really mattered? And from that sort of what matters within our context thinking, we tried to develop a series of activities that were engaging and educational and fun and different.

[00:20:00] But showcased and highlighted what mattered within our context, whether it was showcasing indigenous knowledge or key conservation threats. We tried to do that. So we now have 23 different, we call them impact activities and activities that engage and matter. Looking at the stars from a Greek mythological versus a Maasai mythological perspective, which is really quite fun and playful.

[00:20:27] We have a kid's entomology safari, which we call mini beasts of the Mara. You're looking at insects. So, you know, we've got little kits with butterfly nets and little magnifying glasses to look at insects. And so some showcase indigenous knowledge. Some showcase conservation threats. So in the Mara, for instance, half of the population of vultures, some species have been decimated through indirect poisoning.

[00:20:54] So perhaps a lion kills a cow, the Maasai poison the cow. And then, you know, maybe the lion gets poisoned, but then you'll have 50, 100 vultures fly in and they all get poisoned and either die or almost die. And they are, it's so much easier to do the lion king thing, you know, the cute baby lion or baby elephant. And a lot of people do it and there's no harm in that.

[00:21:20] But I think those keystone species, those apex species, those species that really matter to the ecosystem that are being hammered, we've got to be a little bit bold and showcase them. Even if they are the ugliest, smelliest critters out there as the lion king portrays them. In fact, they're not. They're incredibly interesting and some are very beautiful. So there's a lot of different activities we do. Some are more moving and some are really fun.

[00:21:48] So we have our Maasai warrior school that we're known for where we started it for kids joining the Maasai. And the Maasai can choose anything they want to show them from spear throwing to making fire with elephant dung to bow and arrow shooting. And then the parents wanted to join in. And now sometimes we get grandparents and we adapt it. So if it's grandparents, they sit down with a Maasai elder and they learn what Maasai elders do versus what Western elders do. None of it's scripted.

[00:22:18] We never believe in scripting it, but we hope it provides a very authentic, engaged and different kind of experience. We do a lot of social impact investments and support and guests can see that and join that as well. So that social impact piece, if guests are interested, is also there. It's so wonderful to even imagine any of this when you're talking about this.

[00:22:42] I mean, I'm just lighting up the immense variety of what you offer is just incredible from medicinal plants to stargazing and just really on all senses and all layers. You really get to experience nature. And I love this idea of like even the smallest and all these animals that we don't think of and we don't usually care about. We suddenly find ourselves caring about because we have to see the entire picture of how everything is moving and how everything is connected.

[00:23:11] And bringing that even like the critters that we don't want to talk about and don't really, really give them much credit to and the important place that they have. And what a wonderful metaphor that is for a child to see like how everything has such importance and has a role to play in the ecosystem. I think it does matter.

[00:23:30] You know, what I forgot to say on the vultures is that, you know, recently as a globe, we've had the COVID epidemic and you never know what's going to come next. Right. And so vultures, they clean up the leftovers, but they also can digest things like anthrax and anthrax. You wouldn't want to get anthrax. Think of Ebola or something similar and you've got the picture. Right. So they clean that up on behalf of every other species.

[00:23:58] And so these critters that you may not come on safari for, some of them are really important. And for humans, we don't know what's coming next. So we have to be supportive more broadly than the big five. And actually, I think that's an oversell because there's so much compelling wildlife and bird life and insect life in Kenya that you could spend a year and not get bored if you're enthusiastic. So just to really put that point across, it's more than a holiday.

[00:24:26] But, you know, I don't want to come across as preachy. What we're trying to do is show things in a slightly different way and people leave and they've had an amazing time. But maybe it will, you know, change their purchasing habits in the future or that they sign up to lobby for something or something positive comes out of it. Well, and I think what you're describing is the magic that is Cotter's not trying to push, just trying to create a light. Right.

[00:24:55] And allow what happens from that opening the light. You keep mentioning the big five. And I just want you to explain that a little more. So they were sort of it's a term, unfortunately, from the colonial hunting days, which is like if you shoot these big five, you're really successful. So lion, leopard, buffalo, elephant and rhino. All right.

[00:25:19] There was a wonderful tagline on one of your TikTok videos where it said Cotter is a place that truly remains wild. And I just really felt that with everything in me because that it is what you offer. And that takes appreciation of more than five animals. So how did you conceptualize these activities?

[00:25:40] We started with what mattered and what needed a little bit more attention to help and then became very creative with it. And so it was a bit of a process of growth and learning and revision. It was most definitely a process with our team. So, you know, if we have a Maasai guide, does he feel comfortable doing this? Does he not feel comfortable? How could what would make it OK?

[00:26:08] So if he is doing it once or twice a week that it's not you know, it doesn't become cookie cutter boring, that it is genuine and authentic. So all of our team, we ask, we don't tell, you know, would you be willing to do a stargazing this evening? And we try and keep it fresh that way. So it was just a very organic process to get to these 23 impact activities. And they are and I don't mind that they're not mainstream. We do do the big five game drives.

[00:26:37] You know, we do mainstream, but we add more to safaris. And I'm very proud that what we add matters. On that note, what are you most proud of? I think I'm most proud of our team. So we have close to 100 staff and just seeing junior staff turn into management staff over time.

[00:26:58] We we have what we were finding is that in the local community, we support a primary school, but there's not much opportunity for secondary school, let alone university. And so we found when it came to sort of beyond entry point jobs that we were giving them to people further afield who had the skill set. And so we we've invested in an adult literacy and digital literacy center.

[00:27:25] We have a teacher there that teaches our staff from the local community those skills. And it's really nice to see them because they have an enormous knowledge. But the communication in the language that's, you know, right for clients isn't, you know, it's in Ma, not in English. So we we help with that and seeing that growth and seeing them go, oh, I've been trying to, you know, describe this new activity that I think would be really cool.

[00:27:52] That's what I love is is that growth of our staff. That's my success. If I can do that right, then I've done well. And I think that comes across in all your brand messaging of how how important the community and the people are. What has been the feedback from your guests? Well, most guests, I should say most guests really, really are surprised. An agent's job is to try and find the right, you know, holiday or match for their clients.

[00:28:20] So I think having agents sell us correctly is really, really important so that the guests know what what they're getting when they come. If they want, you know, a gold plated bath and big mirrors, then maybe they should go to Paris. You know, this term luxury and so on. It's it doesn't sit comfortably with me. I'd rather guests left with being blown away with a positive experience.

[00:28:49] You know, was the wine the right temperature? To me, that is it's important, but it's secondary. It's that they were blown away by nature, that they were blown away by the community, that they had that we surpassed expectations in ways that they didn't even know were important. And I think this generic luxury language is possibly wrong because, you know, is luxury a great bottle of wine? Is luxury being alone with 1.6 million wildebeest?

[00:29:18] I mean, I would choose the latter far more than a great bottle of wine. That's my, you know, so if guests say it just, you know, it amazed me. It was beyond what I thought. Then we've done the right job. And we do get a lot of repeat business and a lot of recommendations to to other guests from our guests. That's a great line, Louise. I love that. What has community come to mean to you, given that your family has been interacting with the Maasai community for generations?

[00:29:45] I think it's a mixed bag because there's a lot to celebrate. But then there's issues like in the Maasai Mara, the population is doubling every seven years. Right. So that's going to have an impact on on the resources that are available. And that will affect both humans and other species, that doubling of population every seven years. So it's both a source of solution and humans are a threat to themselves sometimes.

[00:30:14] And I'm not just talking Maasai community. I'm talking globally here. And I think it's trying to find a process that supports, you know, human development while still protecting the planet. Absolutely. I think that was well said. When I was researching about you, I came across a quote that you were describing. And one of the experiences that you had was a guest that was deaf and got to experience a lion roar for the first.

[00:30:43] They couldn't hear it, but they could feel the vibration. Can you talk more about that? Oh, my gosh. So when a lion roars and you're close to it, without fail, the hairs on the back of your neck will stand up. It's just that primal sound that your body knows you shouldn't be close to it. But you can also feel it when it's that close. I mean, you really feel it vibrate that noise through you. And we did. We had a deaf boy on safari.

[00:31:09] And he put his hands on the glass of the car. And you could see that he was feeling it. Not hearing it, but feeling it. And you could see his hair stand up. And it was a phenomenal thing to witness. Just phenomenal. I'm trying to process everything you're saying. And so I'm having to take a moment because my mind is just thinking about this connection with nature and human.

[00:31:36] And this deaf child coming to experience that. And really, it doesn't matter that they're deaf, that they were able to still feel. And just as you're saying that if you hear a lion roar, which I haven't, right? But I can just imagine hearing this lion roar and the innate biological reaction you have, right?

[00:32:00] And then how that transfers to even if you don't have those senses, because it would still be, you would still innately need to go into a survival space. And so it's so wonderfully primal and just brings us back to the root of us, right? Exactly. And, you know, the good thing about the Maasai Mar is that it has been a tourism destination for a long time. And so the wildlife there is quite habituated to humans, which means you can get really close to it in a vehicle.

[00:32:29] Really, really close. And therefore, you know, hearing that lion roar when it's a meter from you is incredibly impactful. So that is one of the great advantages of coming to the Maasai Mar is that you do get close to wildlife. You do leave change. As I mentioned before, I really, really enjoyed checking out your TikTok. It actually kind of restored my faith in social media as I was scrolling. I was like, gosh, I'm feeling so good.

[00:32:57] And I was just loving all the content and all like, and how you were really capturing. I mean, basically, like, first of all, it's beautiful. It's very well done. As I mentioned, it's high quality video content. But you're also really getting to the heart of all these people's stories. And your staff is your stars. You have and you have such a variety of material on there where you have like the more, you know, the more educational pieces where you feel like you're learning and you're kind of watching a documentary, but in a short, more social media friendly way.

[00:33:25] But then you also have like the, you know, the trending, they do the trending TikTok. They do the TikTok trends. And so you have, you see this culture, which is, which is great because, and when you live across, like halfway across the world and you don't get to see this stuff, you're just trying to like really process and understand what is this. And then to see like this tribe, these, these locals that engage the, they're with this beautiful sense of humor and something that you can so easily relate with.

[00:33:53] And it just really brings home that how we can be so different, but also so, so much alike and so similar. Again, trying to be very purposeful. I, you know, when I, I think TikTok, don't judge me for this, but TikTok and YouTube are great platforms for us to try and communicate what we do. Perhaps more so than, than other platforms.

[00:34:16] And we specifically did research and felt that a lot of the Safari, you know, content was wildlife, often wildlife that was, you know, a once in a lifetime kind of 30 second piece. And that creates false expectations. You know, we've all watched wildlife channels and, and, you know, some spend years trying to get that footage and there is phenomenal wildlife in the Mara.

[00:34:45] And we do do a bit of that, but it's so much more what a Safari offers. And so we try to be very purposeful. We experimented. I felt very strongly that our stars of it should be the ones that are the stars in the eyes of our clients. You know, not the owners wartsing in and, you know, looking nice or whatever. No, it should be our staff. And so we experimented. We didn't know who would be good in front of a camera, who wouldn't.

[00:35:13] We also wanted to make sure that there was a rounded viewing of what was on offer for Safari. So we do the little things. We, we did a post today on, on MusIT from a bar. Fuck. I don't know why, but some of it, it's not commercial. I didn't want it to appear really commercial. So yet there's a few posts on this is what the bedroom looks like. But a lot of it is, this is what Safari life is about. This is what it's like living in nature.

[00:35:43] This is our team and doing not, not being afraid to take some risks and doing funny things and seeing what worked and what didn't work. And in our first three months, we, we had over 3 million views, which was great. It's a new platform for us. So we're just, we're at the early stages. We've currently got a guy called Donnie Dust. He's like a Bear Grylls, if you know Bear Grylls. He's sort of primitive wilderness survival types. And he's got 10 million followers.

[00:36:13] I mean, he's huge. He's huge in that outdoor nature space. And he's come to us for three weeks. So we're really excited about that collaboration. And he'll be working a lot with our guy called Moses Kanyake, who's an ex-poacher turned conservationist. And he knows how to track, hunt. He just knows how to do everything in the wild. So the two of them together should be some quite fun content. But we also try, because not everyone can afford us.

[00:36:41] And we're very much aware of that and very much aware that we have a role to play to communicate about nature. And East Africa and the Maasai Mara. And so part of it is to showcase what we do to other audiences that aren't our customers. And if you see some of the feedback, a lot of it is from Kenyans, from Africans that say, we're so proud of you. You know, you are showcasing our country really well. It's not just about getting a client here. It's about the characters. It's about life.

[00:37:10] And that piece has been phenomenal for me. You know, really, really phenomenal. Because why should our audience just be foreigners? Why should we showcase Africa based on an elephant when there's so much more to offer? And I think showing those characters and how amazing they are, I hope, changes the narrative on Africa a little bit. You know, just a little bit. I hope it helps a little bit. I think you've accomplished that.

[00:37:39] I think way more than a little bit. Well, we're just at the beginning and we've got some really exciting things coming up. So we've got other guests coming. We've got someone who won the TikTok, I think the African TikTok of the year. And he's an ex-rugby player chef. He's coming in a few weeks. You know, we're trying to really do things a bit differently. And for those that just want wildlife, okay, go watch Just Wildlife. But if you want, you know, we're trying to showcase compelling, fun, wildlife.

[00:38:10] I love how you describe that, that, you know, there's wildlife and there's wildlife. Exactly. And that is what you feel, the tone of what you feel. I wonder even how you do that from coming as a like, hey, we're going to be promoting this and coming from a business sense. But also we want you to feel like comfortable and really show your, the heart of this. And this is supposed to be fun. And how do you direct movement and the motion there?

[00:38:39] Because that's probably complicated to stay so committed to providing an authentic space, keeping the energy up where it's fun, but then also being like, we're also a business. And so there's the bottom line. Like, how do you keep all that? Yeah. I mean, I haven't yet accounted to the shareholders on it. So watch that space. But I think it's important to take risks and try and do things a bit differently. Maybe some of it will fail. Okay.

[00:39:09] That's fine. We'll learn from it. As I think, exploring that space. And I think, you know, success for us is if we get a good message out there and our staff feel comfortable telling that good message. And it's compelling enough to watch, communicate. But we're still very much learning. I mean, it's a new platform for us.

[00:39:40] I'm sure we'll have some bloopers along the way, so bear with us. Yeah, which is probably even better. Who's directing the content? Like, are the staff members getting to choose what they want to do? Are they a big part of the overall vision of what's created? So I wanted it to be very much Kenyan homegrown. But I searched high and far for someone with the right skill set. And we've got someone. But they weren't familiar with the TikTok platform.

[00:40:06] So we also hired someone who was a TikToker himself but had done quite a lot on profiling ranges in Africa. And we asked him to come and train our team. So he comes every now and then. And then he goes. And then he comes back. But I'm very much trying to make it be a Kenyan team. And what's interesting, I can't tell the difference now if a post is done by the influencer who knows what he's doing versus our team now. I can't tell the difference.

[00:40:32] So it's been now, I think we've been doing it for four and a half, five months. And I'm proud of where we're at. I just wanted over time to be entirely Kenyan-led. Oh, I love that. And that's definitely what comes across as I was watching it. I'm pretty picky about my social media nowadays. And so I was really pleasantly surprised to be able to engage with your platform like that.

[00:40:54] And I think that was the best way to go about it is to train your people and then allow them the creativity of showcasing wildlife. Yeah. Wildlife and wildlife. Yeah. And it's a lot of work. It's more work than I had anticipated. You know, there is a lot of theory to it. There's a lot of practical components to it. And there's a lot of strategy that goes with it. So we brainstorm on what ideas for the next two weeks. In fact, we've brainstormed for the next year ideas.

[00:41:24] So it's not just done whimsically. There is a lot of thought done in it. But I think that the main element is to try and showcase that wildlife in a way that it's done authentically. And I hope we've done that. So you started with Cotter's 25 years ago. And there's been an incredible amount of change. But also, like, you've done a wonderful job of preserving its history as well. And I'm sure that with anything, there's been... You've changed it as much as it has changed you.

[00:41:53] Can you talk about your own personal evolution with Cotter's? Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I came in very much from a World Bank, UN background, which is more, you know, macro level. And this is very micro level, if you will. And I think that initially it's... We focus on product. And over time, I think for me, what's really changed is not investing...

[00:42:19] Of course, we need to invest in product and have, you know, beautiful tents and beds and food and so on. But I think investing in our human capital, for me, that's the biggest change and the thing that's brought the biggest return. Return in every sense. Monetary. Return in terms of client satisfaction. Return in terms of staff satisfaction. I think there is that learning that if you, you know, and that saying if you treat your staff well.

[00:42:49] And I think that's one of the biggest learning curves that I've had. But there's also been major challenges. How do you balance, you know, the need for shareholder return and for a significant community in all of their needs with a small business? How do you do that and remain ethical and true? How do you do that when you can't satisfy everyone? So I think that that pressure points to me continue to be troubling because you can't do it all.

[00:43:17] And with this growing population, the demands are going to get bigger. There's not many players in our area that are generating income. So the pressure is very much on us and the eyes are on us to do more and more and more. And at the same time, the pressure's on to deliver returns for our shareholders. So getting that balance right, ethically right, is important. And how do you manage that conflict?

[00:43:42] We raise additional funding from additional sources to support social investment, to support conservation initiatives. We do charge a premium to our clients. It's not inconsiderable, the cost to come on safari with us. So that, you know, there is a premium to that that goes back. When guests leave us, we give them something called an impact statement, which shows where the money goes.

[00:44:09] It shows what amount goes back for profits, what amount goes to local community, what goes into investments for social impact. And we're very open and honest about that. Because I think, you know, if you just see the price tag, you think, wow, that's a lot of money. But when you see where it ends up and how many thousands, tens of thousands of people it helps or species that it helps or wild lands that it helps, it then kind of the math adds up a lot better.

[00:44:35] So we're very open in accounting for how we use our funds and where it goes to. Yeah, there's far more that could be done. So do you think this work has changed you and will continue to change you? I think so, for sure. I love learning new things and trying new things and not afraid to take a lot of risks. I can imagine.

[00:44:54] And so when we were discussing how coming into Carter's and being the first female and all these things that you were pioneering in coming into this space and creating change, but also keeping a stance on what is the magic of Carter's. And so it's only fair to also discuss the challenges that came into that space as well, because I'm sure, I'm sure it wasn't easy.

[00:45:20] And so although we talk about how much magic it has created in your life, I'm sure that this has been, what are, can you talk more about the challenges and how you've overcame them? Yeah, I mean, some of them seem in hindsight pretty interesting. So one of them was the recommendation that we introduce electricity into our camp. And it was like, oh, I don't know, that'll change things. It's like, yeah, I mean, we'll have refrigeration, for instance.

[00:45:48] So, you know, things like that, bringing women in. So when I began, there were no female staff. And, you know, there was a lot of debate by certain players whether or not we should or we shouldn't. And I think it's been beyond the right decision to have a rounded, inclusive staff. We've had other challenges around, you know, living in a wild area. Yeah. There's wildlife and there's wild insects and a lot of stuff comes in.

[00:46:18] And so we've had some wildlife incidents. We've had some insect incidents, some bat incidents and so on. You know, you don't live in the middle of the wilderness with really high densities of critters and not have some things happen. And we've had a leopard jump into the car once, only once. So I don't want that to put people off. But we've had a few incidents. Our clients are safe.

[00:46:44] But, you know, there's been some challenges there and small things like termites eating wood or two really big things. Lots of challenges. I wouldn't I won't go into them because I don't want it to sound all negative. But I think sometimes the challenge is the rewarding part. You know, when you're successful, it's not that rewarding somehow in a weird way. It's that it's standing the business up that's so rewarding. So I take all of it and run with it. Absolutely.

[00:47:13] And just I mean, I guess I like personal challenges of like, how did you so confidently bite this off and say, I know this is new, but just trust me. Right. Because there had to be so much trust and so much. How did you how did you hold that space so well? I have no idea. I'm just thankful to the board and the shareholders for believing in me and supporting me. Yeah. And I think ultimately you've still got to produce the results from a business perspective.

[00:47:42] I also think that not being part of a corporate has given us the ability to adapt very quickly. And that's very good in a competitive advantage. So keeping small has really kept us nimble. So I think there's a lot of advantages sometimes of not being part of a bigger network. Well, from the outside looking in, you've done a phenomenal job. And I can't imagine like coming into a space where it's family run, but there's so many things that you have to overcome just by by existing, it feels like.

[00:48:11] And so 25 years is a long road and especially in such a wild, wild environment. Right. But I commend you because I think that it's it's incredible to see what I'm seeing. And just knowing that, like as a woman, probably what you had to deal with and how to to be in this space today. And so I'm just I commend you and I am very inspired to sit here today. So thank you for having this wonderful conversation with us.

[00:48:40] And is there anything you'd like to add that we didn't cover today? No, thank you for this amazing opportunity. I really appreciate it. And that's all we have. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you.