Australia Crush India 3-1 in Border Gavaskar Trophy - What's next for India's legends?

[00:00:08] Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the Edges & Sledges Cricket Podcast, our very first of 2025. I'm your host Ashwin. Joining me is Varun in Singapore. Varun, it's been a few weeks since we recorded, which is not quite characteristic of us doing a big series, but obviously holiday travel, everybody being kind of all over the world, but we are back at it. How are you doing man? The main thing I wanted to ask as it pertains to the cricket is we normally record the day after a tough series has finished and it's been over a week now.

[00:00:38] Has that helped? Has it hurt a little bit? Does it still burn? We're going to get into all of it, but how are you feeling? Yeah, it's been a while. So it feels like all the hurt has kind of slowly kind of mellowed down and you have come to terms with what has happened. But I mean, so we were just for our listeners, Ashwin and I were both in Dubai and there was most days we woke up at 6.10 in the morning, which was just after post-transition.

[00:01:06] But I think for the boxing test on day five, we actually woke up at 3.30 to watch from the start. And it's just, the way I sum it up is I just feel that we lost the key moments. It's like, you know, there was five, seven overs that, you know, spells on bowling or during batting that could have made a difference. And we just kept losing those.

[00:01:32] So net-net, you know, maybe I can just talk through very quickly kind of, or let's basically net-net in my heart. I may not have said this in the podcast. I thought we'll probably end up losing 2-1. And I said, you know, having lost 3-0 previously, the team we have 2-1. 3-1, I think, hurts a little bit more. I didn't expect that.

[00:01:53] DJ can't join us today, but he made us, like he reminded us to make a special mention to say that after many years, have we lost a series in Australia? That's not the 90s kids, you know, that we grew up, that's something that we're familiar with. We have always lost in Australia. We haven't lost the Bordogavaska Trophy for 10 years. We lost that. We haven't been whitewashed or lost to home series like that in 12 years.

[00:02:20] And that's happened. So basically, the last 90 days or so of cricket has been pretty harsh. Yeah, really well said. I mean, I think when you talked about losing the key moments, right? For those of us who are cricket fans who talk to people who don't understand the sport, don't understand, like why do they play this thing for five days? That is what test cricket is about, right? It's not about that you need to be playing for 90 overs a day for five days.

[00:02:48] It's about after long spells, after long partnerships, finding a way to break through, finding those key moments. And India just lost every single one of those. And I think even as you're reminding me or articulating it, the fact that we woke up at 3.30 on day five, the fact that I was feverishly refreshing as I was boarding planes to get home, etc. There were multiple points in this series, multiple points where we had hope. Where, you know, and despite, I'm getting into it, but despite making only 185, we got them out for 181.

[00:03:18] Okay, you're back in this game. There were several points where it felt like we could do it and we just weren't able to tighten the screws or close. And that's kind of what this series felt like. So to your point, 3.1 hurts. It feels fair for the kind of cricket we played, for the kind of series we had. I think with playing this cricket, if Boomer had pulled off a miracle and got us to 2-2 all and retained the Bordegaviska trophy, I don't think that that transparently was a fair result. So that's hard to say.

[00:03:46] Maybe the week that has passed has made me a little more mellow on this front. But I don't think we deserve to retain the Bordegaviska trophy. We just didn't play the level of cricket I know we're capable of. I know the hordes of youth in the domestic system and all the youngsters knocking at the door. I know this team is capable of it. We've seen it twice in the last six years. But it wasn't to be this time. So Varun, we haven't recorded since before the boxing day test. So Sydney, Melbourne.

[00:04:16] Do you want to do a very quick summary of what happened in those two? Actually, we shouldn't spend too much time on it. But then we'll spend time talking about the players. Yeah, so as we got into MCG, I think two immediate things to mention for me. One, I have always been worried that between Melbourne and Sydney, this Australian team is going to hit 500 in a game. And it's been part of my anxiousness that Siraj is not picking up wickets.

[00:04:45] Rana was not the right pick. Charena and Ashwin were seeming to be not great. Sundar and Reddy, we're not sure if they're in the team for batting or bowling. So a lot of things happened. And then Australia brought up this kid, Sam Constance, 19 years old, who was also referred to as Qantas quite a few times in the Sydney test. Mostly by Jaswal, right? Yeah. And this kid comes out. And I mean, I have to be honest, the way he batted, he looked like a number nine or ten. Okay.

[00:05:15] But then... You're talking about like drag rap shots against Boomerah like three or four times? I've seen all of them. Yeah. He missed all of them. That's what I'm saying. And Boomerah... At one point, you were almost embarrassed for this child watching. Which is what you would imagine a number 10 batsman, right? Yeah. So this guy walks out and he's very clearly come with a mission. And he has nothing to lose because Nathan McSweeney didn't do anything. Boomerah is on fire. Kwaj at the end of the series said, I was just getting Boomerahed, right?

[00:05:44] And so he has nothing to lose. So he starts playing in a Risha Pan sort of way, but doesn't pull it off. And then when the first ramp shot goes off, the Aussies go crazy. Like I still hear it ringing in my head sometimes. Constance has played the ramp shot. And I can't like... I just... And then he played like three or four of those. And somehow found his way to 60. But I think rattled the Indian side. Virat Kohli ran two pitches over, bombed him.

[00:06:12] A lot of controversy, especially from Ricky Ponting, who seems to be the moral police of the game. Do you think that... Of the new generation. Do you think Virat will ever recover financially from losing 20% of his match fees? I mean, yeah. It's like one post. One post makes him more than that. So... Yeah, much more than that. So it was... Yeah, it was just... It was just this worry, right? And so when the Boxing Day test started, there was a lot of drama. But they got off to a flyer.

[00:06:41] 60-57, 72-143. Those were their top four scores, right? And then Pat Cummins comes in and is handy with the bat. Now, 474. India, Rohit Sharma's back as captain, as opener, has sent K.R. Rahul down. Makes three or five balls. Just atrocious, ridiculous. Don't know what to say. K.R. Rahul Kohli looking good. But again, it's about those moments, right? Nobody could hold their own. Nobody could capitalize.

[00:07:09] But we still ended up at 369 and avoided the follow-on. Something similar to that third test. And Nitish Kumar Reddy hit 100, which was just glorious. Like, social media erupted for that day. Ashwin, thoughts on Nitish Kumar Reddy? Like, I had said he won't even play. I said he won't even travel as a reserve. Like, Natarajan still went as a reserve four years ago. I said Nitish Kumar won't even go as a reserve.

[00:07:35] Man, it's tough because on that day, we were all so elated, right? And I think, sorry, the reason it's tough is because recording now, I think his next three scores were like 1-0 and 1. And a lot of people said that after that century, he met Kohli and Anush Keshavar. But after that, it's been 1-0. I mean, listen. But you don't take away from that century, right? In a series where at least half your batters did absolutely nothing.

[00:08:02] Yes, you had a couple of guys who had subpar series as well, but better than the rest. So no, you don't take away from that century. Scoring a century at the MCG in a scenario where your team needed you to bat your way out of the embarrassment of a follow-on in Melbourne. Absolutely phenomenal. I mean, I wish he could have gone on and done more. I think he has cemented his place in the conversation, which sounds like a half-backwards way to say

[00:08:30] I still don't think he walks into this 11, but now you're not leaving the series saying who's this kid? He should be gone, whatever. You're leaving the series saying he should be in the conversation. I still think Gambhir, Rohit slash Bumrah slash whoever's going to be captain for the future have the existential questions on why are you picking him? Are you picking him as a batter? In which case, should he bat higher? Is he one of your best six in the country? Are you picking him as a bowler? In which case, you're not giving him that many overs.

[00:08:57] He picked up a couple of wickets here and there, but I think it's the existential question on the role, but nothing to take away from the magnificent batting innings. And then very quickly, spare a thought for Washington Sundar. He made a brilliant half-century. I mean, you can't do that, right? There's no ready innings if Sundar is not holding down the other end. I don't think we'll get into this later, so let's just pause for a second and talk about it now. Ashwin, I'm sorry, Ashwin retired. Jadeja, Sundar, and Reddy. Nobody was doing anything with the ball.

[00:09:28] And you had three all-rounders all there for the batting. Did India miss a trick? I personally think it was wrong to go with these three. Yeah, so the thing is, somebody will pull our clips from 2019, but even you and me have spent years talking about under Kohli, the red ball captain, the strategy was four out-and-out bowlers. We had four number 11s for the longest time.

[00:09:54] If not for Ash and Jadeja, and often one played, sometimes both played, we didn't, like, we had the longest tail in the world. So, and we complained a little about that too, right? So, and maybe that's just the role of us as podcasters, fans, et cetera. But, so, the answer, but that's where we got our best results. That 10-year period when you inevitably had Bumra, Shami, Ishan, Umesh, and Siraj,

[00:10:21] four out of the five of them played together as Quicks overseas. We had our best results overseas. So, it's an oversimplification of it. But to answer your question, I think we did miss a trick because in those spells when, I mean, this series would have been 5-0 if not for Bumra. I think we can all raise our hands up and say that, right? We would have lost this series 0-5 if not for Bumra. And so then you start to say, okay, fine. So, like, can you imagine the potential if one or two of the other bowlers had stepped up to that extent?

[00:10:51] So, to answer your question, yes, I think we did miss a trick. I don't hold it against any of them. Jadeja is a world-class player who should walk into most sides. Sundar had a good series, objectively. He batted really well. He bowled decent. And Reddy made a century in Melbourne when Rohit and Kohli couldn't. So, individually, you don't hold it against them. But in the collective, that's the hardest job of a selector, of a manager, a coach, and a captain is, okay, how do you find the balance? And, anyway, I don't know if you disagree. It sounds like you and I are on the same page on that.

[00:11:20] No, they did make runs. So, you can't, and the lower order is the one that is wagging, or the tail is wagging, right? That's the saying. It's a tough call. I still believe they missed a trick by playing all three, but can't necessarily fault them. When the first time we announced it, we said, it's not bad. That's not too bad. But I think we overestimated kind of what Reddy and Sundar are going to do with the ball.

[00:11:46] And on pitches when even Nathan Lyon was not bowling much, to play Jadeja and Sundar, I think, was a mistake. Yeah, so let's talk selection really quick going into Melbourne. Gil missed out, which is an important factor as well, right? So, Gil got dropped and Sundar got brought back in. Is that an immediate, yeah, what was your take on that, right? Obviously, the decision was Rohit's going back up, like you said. Sundar's coming into Bolster.

[00:12:11] Now, Gil has not had a good series, has not had a good run in overseas cricket in general. And just looking at the numbers, Sundar got a 50 in the first innings and didn't get dismissed in the second innings. So, maybe from a batting standpoint, one for one, Sundar was a better batter to bring in than Gil. But what was your take on that? I mean, I thought they were just accommodating Rohit. I thought it's been too early for them to kick out Rohit. He had to play this one more test. And I think Gil was kind of made a scapegoat.

[00:12:42] Like, I'm glad that Gil was asked to sit out because hopefully it should make him step up and want to do more. But I also think it was a bit harsh on him given some of the form of other players like Rohit. I know Kohli also has been in great form. But somehow, just Rohit was much worse. Yeah, and Kohli, I mean, you could argue Kohli had a center in the series, right? Neither Gil nor Rohit. Yeah. I mean, listen, it runs or runs. I mean, I was in Perth that time and I know how hard it was.

[00:13:12] I think Stark and Hazelwood just said, I'm going to go to Bolling anymore. Yeah. And that was going to take the runs. But anyway. And then let's talk quickly as we went into Sydney then. Rohit dropped himself. And there's all kinds of discussion. We could have had three episodes on that day about the media messaging and you and I were together. So we talked. But Rohit ended up not playing. Opting out. And then, or opting out. That's the word I was looking for. And then, and then Prasid came in. Right? I think it was back for Akash at that point.

[00:13:40] But thoughts on that one? So Gil is back in for Rohit. I mean, thoughts on generally Rohit's approach to it. Because he since came out, I think during the day two of the fifth test, he came out and said, listen, I'm not retiring. But my form wasn't there. It was the right call. And I think he won a lot of points with fans in the media for acknowledging that. But he also said, I'm not, I'm not done. I'm not going anywhere. Which, which could have been a decision to not want to make it all about him while the match was still on. You never know what the future will hold.

[00:14:10] But, but thoughts on that decision and sort of what that says about the state of the Indian team when your captain's resting himself mid-series or opting out mid-series? Yeah. So I can't remember the time that's happened before. I know Dhoni retired, but that was different. It's because the next guy was ready to take over. Now, a lot happened after Melbourne, right? India basically got out for 155. And we ended up losing that match by 184. And that was a game, again, I'm repeating myself.

[00:14:38] We got up early because we thought we might win that, right? So that's how disastrous the fourth innings was. Post that, one hears that Gambhir has basically had a very stern dressing room meeting where he said, enough is enough. People can't play their natural game. And basically said, I have for six months, just let you guys do whatever you want. And now I'm taking over, right? And so that is what you hear.

[00:15:06] And then like literally two days later, Rohit has opted out. So it's very clear. And then we heard all sorts of things that senior officials in the BCCI tried to ask Gambhir to let Rohit play that game. Gambhir said no. Rohit wanted to retire, but senior people asked him not to retire. So he didn't retire. The reality is we could go on and on. Nobody knows what's happened. But what I can say for sure is that Gambhir took charge and Rohit was out of form.

[00:15:34] And I think the right decision was made. I think that's the way I would summarize it. Yeah, I think, I mean, I think, I think fair, right? And we'll come back. We're going to, we're going to talk about every single player in the series now, but from an Indian lens. But I think just to your point, just, you know, although Gambhir says he took charge, you don't expect him to be able to turn around in one match. I think the question is, is he changing the way this is going to run for the next six, 12 months? How long a leash he gets is to be determined, right?

[00:16:03] In Premier League football or soccer, for example, they don't, you know, you get six months or so. But that's because there's one game per week every single week with the same guys against similar opponents. We are now not going to play an overseas test till July. Yeah, but are we really saying that the Gambhir that all of us have known and watched for so long sat back for six months? Like, isn't that an excuse? No, I don't. Like, I think, I think, I think it was just easy for you to come out at this time and say, I have not done much now, I'll do it.

[00:16:32] But I think there's a lot to be asked about Gambhir. Gambhir, I think it's the most disastrous start by any coach ever. We lost ODI series against Sri Lanka. Well, when have we last lost a series against Sri Lanka? I couldn't remember. I mean, I remember recording after it and it was forever. Like, it was a disaster. Yeah. And then 3-0 at home against New Zealand, which arguably was the start of Ashwin's decision to go. Now the press is talking about how long does Jadeja have left?

[00:17:02] I mean, Jadeja has been a world-class talent for over a decade. And now suddenly, yeah. And the only success he found is T20. But the only, unfortunately, the thing that is saving Gambhir is that he has direct control over that T20 team. And he's produced results. So I think the insinuations are that he doesn't have control over Rohit and Kohli. And he's just not able to kind of manage them. And I think that would have been the biggest challenge.

[00:17:29] So net-net, I think there's no excuse for Gambhir. Yeah. Although, sorry, I'm taking a little time on this. But I also feel that Gambhir was handpicked by the BCCI, taken out of KKR, brought in. I don't think there's a succession plan. I don't think VVS Lakshman is the answer. We've been hearing his name for the last three years as a succession plan. And so I believe that Gambhir needs to be given a rope of certain length to be able to take some decisions and prove himself.

[00:17:58] And if he still doesn't work at the end of it, I think he's got to go. Yeah. I mean, I think I could not agree more. I think there's an element also of, like if you think about the Langer days in Australia and stuff, it's almost the equivalent of making Langer become coach while Hayden and Pontinger still playing. It's got to be hard, right? Gambhir was in this team with Rohit and Kohli for so long. So do you have the, and played, did he play, I don't remember if he would have played under Kohli, maybe not.

[00:18:27] But the point being, I agree. Like the T20 team is a younger team that has looked up to compare their whole careers and is now working under him. And the test team is not that yet. So anyway, there's also been a little bit of chaos with the Agarkar stuff. I don't know if you saw, but Agarkar, Rahul has now asked to take the England white ball series off. And has been rejected apparently. Again, I don't know how much is real, how much is rumors. But his time off has been, his time off request was rejected in prep for Champions Trophy.

[00:18:58] He's having a child, isn't he? I don't know. He's not having. I think he's having. No, no, having. But like, it feels fair to say, hey, can I take a little bit of time off for the birth of my child? Yeah. I don't know when the child is due, but apparently he was first told that you're guaranteed a slot in Champions Trophy. Okay. And then was told that you got to play the England series. So I agree. So it's a little bit of mixed messaging. And I think this is what happens during transitions. And we're just going to have to live with it for a while.

[00:19:28] Right. Varun, let's take a very quick break. When we come back, we will run down kind of each of the players in the squad, how we felt this Bordogavskar Trophy was, and then what's next for them. So don't go anywhere. We will be right back.

[00:19:57] Tip one hand, where on all of them, we'd love to hear from you. Varun, I pulled up the stats. It's kind of what I was hoping we'd do. Right. So if we go, let's just go through the top order first and then, and just have a quick chat. Let's start with Yashatwi Jaswa. Had a period in the series where he was Stark's bunny. He made a magnificent surgery, then got out for, was it two first ballers back to back or whatever, first and second ball or something like that. Ends the series as the second highest run scorer, 391 runs, average of 43.

[00:20:27] In aggregate, not bad, not a series that lived up to the potential he has, but clearly India's best batter in the series, including, by the way, getting that run out at one time when he shouldn't have. So you never know how many more he could have made given his propensity for being hundreds. Any much to say about Jaswa? I mean, here for the future, I think the next star of Indian cricket opening batsmen have always kind of had this aura around them. And he looks like he's, he's, he can play the part.

[00:20:56] So I think nothing further to have said he's here for a long time, invest in him. I think his only mistake was just telling Stark that it's coming too slow. But apart from that, I think it was good. He gave it back whenever they tried to give it to him, including Constance, who tried to talk nonstop to him when he was feeling at civil point. Yeah, Stark, Stark got his revenge for sure in this season. It ended up pretty balanced. Jaswa had a good series. Right.

[00:21:23] His opening partner, which changed over the course of the series, but let's start with KL Rahul. Right. On paper, again, 276 runs. He had a couple of knocks. I don't want to discount the knocks where he batted time. He was the only player, it felt like, in the top order who made the decision to and was able to, at certain points, bat for time. So we talked to him a little bit before the break. But what do you think the future holds for KL Rahul?

[00:21:46] Is he now, as one of the few continuity players called him that, is he the next in line to open with Jaswa for the foreseeable future? Until, you know, call it he's got three to five years left. Or does he have a lot more to prove overseas test, to become an overseas test cricketer? I have no idea. I feel like we've been having this conversation in 2015. We were. Yeah. So, yeah. Is he next in line? That was a 2015 discussion.

[00:22:12] So, I think he starts off well and the entire narrative switches to KL Rahul is the best thing we've had since Virat Kohli. And then his series fizzles out. He makes 0-0-5-10, gets out stupidly, and then it goes back to. So, I just can't tell. But, you know, for all this chat about the Indian batting, I do see a pipeline. Because, let's be honest, there's two things I wanted to discuss here, right?

[00:22:38] One, you had Abhimanyu Iswaram, and you had an opening problem, and you still didn't play him. So, stop asking him to join the squad. Second, at the end of the tournament, everyone kept saying, go back to play Ranji. Yeah, well, Iswaran and Sarfraz have played Ranji, and they have smashed it. And now you're… What is the narrative? What are you guys talking about, right? Go back to playing Ranji. What does that mean?

[00:23:05] Yeah, if you've got two guys who have played Ranji and crushed it, why are you telling the existing guys who are failing to play Ranji? Like, bring these guys in. Yes, go back to play Ranji. While you're doing that, we'll bring in the successful Ranji player. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, yeah. Tough. And we'll come to the guys who didn't get a chance, because Abhimanyu, Sarfraz, and then Padikal, of course. But let's go to number three, and I'm going to… Actually, let's talk Gil. Very, very mixed series. Right?

[00:23:33] I'm like, who's our number three with Rohit moving and Goalie and this and that. But let's talk Shumangil. Right? I don't even have his stats in front of me, because I sorted by most number of runs scored. And it gives me the top 15, and he scored 93 runs. That is an average of 18.6, which is less than Mitchell Stark, less than Sam Constance, who only came in in Melbourne, less than Pat Cummins. And then the rest of them are fair.

[00:24:02] So, I mean, that's pretty telling, right? He played four of the five matches, I think it was, and made… Did he play four or three? He played three of the five matches. Yeah, injured for the first. Yeah. And then… I mean, I know he's less than Rahul, but he's been the prince. He's been the future. We think he's going to bat at four long term. I still see it. I still see the potential. But objectively, a pretty awful series for Shumangil, right? It was. It was. And for us, I think we need to get over this whole prince thing and future thing. I think he's just got to prove himself. There's too many people waiting.

[00:24:32] Like, you know, you're seeing a Padikal, you're seeing a Kaikwad. Mayankal. The Rahul has just hit back-to-back centuries or many back-to-back centuries in the domestic season. So, it's not a guarantee. I think the fact that he was dropped should be a wake-up call to him. I think the fact that India, the media and everyone has been saying that there is no identified future captain. The fact that… And it was his to have, yeah.

[00:25:02] It was his to have. Because let's face it, Bumala deserves it. But what happens if Bumala doesn't play all the games, right? So, I still think Bumala should. So, let's not sidestep that issue. But all I'm saying is Gil was a contender and the fact that Gil is not… Gil is being dropped, I think it's a terrible, terrible sign. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. I think there's also a little bit… I don't have it in front of me, but a tale of two cities with his stats recently at home and away.

[00:25:28] And I think you're not in the hunt to be a full-time pick captain with captaincy material if you're not scoring runs overseas. So, in SANA countries, etc. All right. Now we have to do it. Captain. Captain for most of the series. Three of the matches, I guess. Didn't play the first. Dropped for the last. Opted out for the last. Let me go through the list of people who scored more runs than him in totality in the series. Akash Teeg. Just say Bumala and Akash Teeg.

[00:25:58] Akash Teeg. Bumala. Nathan Lyon. Nathan McSweeney, who was dropped. Mitchell Marsh, who was dropped. Bo Webster, who came in for one match. Sam Constance, who came in for two matches. I mean, you end a series with three matches, five innings, 31 runs at an average of 6.2. I mean, there's no discussion to be heard about the statistics, actually. There's a discussion to be heard about it. It's the memes that Bumala picked more wickets than Rohit Mehta.

[00:26:28] Bumala had 32 wickets in the series. The most ever, tied for the most ever by an Indian baser in a series. Yeah. More wickets than that. Tied with who, by the way? A couple of days. 1979 or something. I mean, it's just, it's phenomenal. And like, we won't even spend time talking to Bumala at the end because, or maybe we'll wrap up with him so we leave this episode feeling happier than we do right now. But what do we, what do you say about Rohit Sharma? We talked about a little bit from our captaincy, let's say all, but what, what do we, what do we do?

[00:26:55] This decision, he, he was on paternity leave. He showed up on day three of the Perth test. We were in Perth at that point and we were just like, what? Why have you come? This decision to return may have single-handedly killed Rohit Sharma's career probably a year or year and a half before he thought it would happen. It was a captaincy disaster. He was looking bored on the field. He was getting frustrated at his players. He was not making any runs.

[00:27:24] And every time he was off the field and Akoli and Abumara stepped up, there was a spark. Things happened in the match. And every time Rohit was on the field, he looked like he just didn't want to be there. And it's okay, you know, test cricket, like, I don't think Tony ever wanted to play test cricket, right? We've talked about that. DJ's talked about that. And I just don't think Rohit wanted to play. So what I could not understand is after a 3-0 loss, why did you come back? Did you think that Australia is going to be easier? Easier, yeah.

[00:27:54] We won two series and you want to be part of the story, a story that Kohli missed actually last time because of his paternity leave. I just didn't get it. Why did you come back? What was your motivation that I'll be a hero? And this is good learning sometimes in life. It's actually turned out to be the biggest disaster. So long, long answer. But in short, he needs to go. He should not go to England to play the overseas test.

[00:28:20] And I think he will no longer be a captain or be as part of the test. And there's a broader, well said, there's a broader discussion to be said on did he ever deserve to be red ball captain, right? We went through this phase when Kohli was being pushed out on like, well, we should have one captain for all formats. And then Rohit became eight, but he was never in full credit to him as a player, as a white ball cricketer, as an incredible ODI cricketer. And so he was never the first name on our team sheet with the red ball.

[00:28:48] And so then your question becomes, do we jump the gun? Very quickly, we went from being like, we should have one captain for all formats to Sky picking up T20 captaincy because Rohit's not playing that as much. So there's a broader discussion to be had potentially on that. The question I have for you, Varun, is what is Rohit's future with, for now, with white ball cricket? Because the same discussions are starting to happen on, yes, Champions Trophy is too close, you could argue. But with the calendar and with T20 World Cups, ODI World Cups, and Champions Trophies and World Test Championship cycle,

[00:29:16] there's always something too close to say, oh, maybe our senior guys shouldn't go now. It's too close. But that's what we're hearing already, right? Champions Trophy, Rohit and Kohli definitely should play, and then we figure it out. But we said that, I think we said that with the 23 World Cup, then we said it with the T20 World Cup, then now we're saying it with Champions Trophy. So are we just delaying the inevitable? Yeah, so I think we will see Rohit, he's retired from T20, we will see him captain the Champions Trophy because he's not done anything wrong there.

[00:29:45] But I personally think with 2027 being far away, Harsha Boghle said this, that this Champions Trophy is meaningless. It's not enough to prepare for, it doesn't hold enough purpose to prepare well for this 2025. It's too far away from the 2027 World Cup to say this is our prep for the next tournament. And so it almost feels like this World Cup is being held so that Rohit can try one last time and then leave. And I think that's what he should do.

[00:30:13] He should try one last time and then just walk away. Yeah, I mean, I think well said. It's tough. But yeah, I think that's what it's going to be. I think we're going to see maybe the Champions Trophy becomes the send-off for Rohit. And potentially this next time we're going to talk. So let's quickly talk about Kohli then. Right? I think the way I try to summarize it is I saw a stat that said up until the end of 2019,

[00:30:39] his test career batting average was 54 point something. It was very solid up there with the greats. Yep. Today his cumulative entire test match batting average is 46.85. Wow. I mean, I should just pull best test batting averages. But he has dropped. And this is not overseas only or against Australia only or anything. Like, of course, when you exclude Don Bradman, right?

[00:31:08] You're looking at guys like Gary Sobers finished his career 57 average. Sangakara 57. Steve Smith today still playing 55.8. Callis 55.3. Kane Williamson 54.8. Sachin 53.7. Lara 52.8. That was, I mean, he, till four, three or four years ago, that's the company he was in. Now you scroll down to the 46s. I mean, he, he's not, I mean, I'm on Crick Info's article and he didn't make the front page of people. That's like 50, 16.

[00:31:37] And Michael Clark, Graham Smith, all of these guys finished their test careers in the 48. Saywag 49.3. Inthamom 49.6. So their test average has dropped to 46.85. And it's in large part because since the start of 2024, his average was in the low 20s. I wonder, it'll be very interesting. I know we can't catch it now, but I'm just saying, if you say, let's say he plays another two or three years. Yeah. What will it take to get into that topic of Crick Info, right? Like, do you refuse that?

[00:32:06] It's, is it unattainable? Is it unachievable now? Like, do you need to have three years of thousand runs per year? I think those days are gone, to be honest. I just, I think the problem with Rohit, with Kohli is that he still looks good when he bats. And I think that is why I am in a dilemma, apart from loving the guy. But I don't have an answer, but let me put it this way.

[00:32:33] I would be very happy if he continues and tries to turn it around because I think Zidat Kohli just has this thing about him when he comes up to bat and he was looking good. But at the same time, if he gets dropped, I think I'll understand, right? Because the last five years, like you said, his average is 29 or 30 or something like that. Yeah. It's not acceptable. I think the thing for me is, it's the first time in my career, career, Kohli's career,

[00:32:57] or my lifetime of being a Kohli fan, that I felt like there's such a big, glaring technical issue. Yeah. And that's the part that unless you're willing to go back and solve and go play Ranji or go get a coach and do that, at Kohli's and Rohit's to an extent, life stage, age, etc., do they have the motivation, the desire to go do that? Yeah. But it's going to be a tricky one. All right, Varun, we talked about the three all-runners already. My quick question is, how long do we think Jadeja has left in a post-Ashwin era?

[00:33:25] Because you would have thought with Ashwin's retirement, Jadeja settles in and now becomes the guy for a bit. But he is 36. He just turned 36. But he is 36. What do you think the future holds for Jadeja, the all-rounder, the batter who walked into the side, honestly, just as a batter for the last seven or eight years? I don't know. Because again, Jadeja is deadly at home, right? And I don't think we're playing at home till October. Yeah. Yeah, I guess so. It's 10 months away. So again, it's a long time now.

[00:33:54] The fact that they haven't retired, I think, just my gut feel tells me Jadeja will still be around. I don't think Jadeja is going to take a retirement unless Kambi tells him, listen, I'm going to take you to England and you're not part of my first 11. I think that is when Jadeja retires. And let's be honest, that's probably what happened with Ashwin. I mean, take you to Sydney and Melbourne and you're still not part of my playing. So I think they're going to force that retirement out of Jadeja, but I don't think he will go just on his own. Yeah. Okay. Well said.

[00:34:23] We're not going to talk more on Reddy. I think he did finish. It's worth calling out for. I called out his last three innings were low single-digit scores, but he did finish as India's second highest run score, right? Because of all the 30s and 40s he made before that magnificent century. So behind only Jaswal. I mean, that's worthy of saying something, batting at seven, sometimes eight and being able to pull that off is awesome. The last one I have to ask you about was in the media a lot for Gavaskar first, absolutely

[00:34:51] destroying him for playing the natural game, stupid shots, all that. And then he came out and it was the only potential reason for a little bit. It looked like we had a chance in Sydney where nobody else could bat. And Barron. To the brilliant innings. Absolutely brilliant. It's like in South Africa. I often refer to this. A.B. De Villiers realized I have to make runs quickly. Yeah. And that saves the game. I punched it the same. So I think, I mean, there's no debate. He's just going to be here.

[00:35:15] I think, let me, Ashwin, R. Ashwin basically put it well, saying if he just mixes his caution with aggression, he could hit 100 every game. I think that's how all of us feel. Yeah. It's just about playing that moment. Yeah. I think in that Sydney match, I think everyone recognized that he had to do this. And so there was no complaints. In the Melbourne match, I think equally everyone recognized that he shouldn't have done that. So give him criticism on the basis of that particular innings.

[00:35:43] Don't give him criticism on the basis of how he plays his game as a whole. Yeah. I'm also, I couldn't agree more. I'm also a fundamental believer that you build your side around guys like this, right? We did a little bit around Sawak. I don't think Punt being an aggressive, erratic guy and making stupid decisions once in a while is a bad thing. I think the problem is when you have too many guys in the side doing that. And I think Punt has earned his spot as being the guy who you give license to and say, listen, you're going to pull off these blinders. You're going to get mixed, stupid looking ducks. That's okay.

[00:36:11] But we're going to build a seven that enables for that protection. And right now we've given too many guys this license. Right. As we typically do as Indian fans, we've sort of run out of time as it comes time to talk to bowlers, but nothing to say about Bumrah other than tremendous, absolutely tremendous. We talked to Deja. Just quickly talk me through the quicks, right? So Shami is back for the England ODIs. Bowling 10 overs is different to bowling a five-day spell. Bumrah is actually out with some back swelling.

[00:36:40] So much so that he might miss the first couple of matches of the Champions Trophy, apparently, as of this morning. Which is fine. I'd say just protect him. Come back in the semifinal. In Dubai and Pakistan conditions, I mean, India will play in Dubai. It's fine. You don't need him. We have enough depth. So I guess as you look at Harshit, Akash, Prasid, and then the role of Chadeja Sundar, etc. What is your take on India's future outlook on test bowling? Or are we going to be... And of course, Siraj.

[00:37:09] I have to ask you about Siraj because you were so passionate about him. But let's wrap that up. I just... We've said it before. Siraj is not your number two bowler. Siraj has bowled way too much. I think some stats have come out. I read the number four he's bowled is ridiculous in the last five years or four years. Yeah. He needs a break. Nothing wrong with taking a break. He bowls every ball with that same level of passion and dedication. But you need to be smarter. You need to evolve. And you do need breaks. So first thing, Siraj, take a break and come back because I still think he's one of our

[00:37:39] top three to five bowlers. Second, I think, you know, with the Bumrah, Shami, Siraj, I think it's a great combination. I liked Prasid, but I think a lot to work on. I liked Akash Teep the most with the new ball. We just didn't give him the damn new ball. But every time we did, he did something. Akash was a very unlucky series. I think the numbers won't show how Akash balled. I fully agree.

[00:38:04] And then lastly for me, Harshit Rana, man, that ball to Travis Head in Perth was just a perfect delivery. Yeah. But beyond that, I mean, go back. Here's a message for him. Play Ranji. It's like put in the time. Break your back in Indian conditions. Yeah. And then come back because you sure promised. I think you did well, but you just got to play more. You got to... Basically, the thing is, Shami and Bumrah evolved, right?

[00:38:34] Of course. Nobody starts like that. Yeah. Evolved the game. The rest of them have to evolve. I just don't think Siraj has evolved and I don't want the others following that path. That's my summary. I almost want us to pick a couple of guys who say you are going to be test bowlers. The Anderson Broad equivalent of Hazelwood equivalent of specialization. And say, when India is not playing test cricket, go play county, not even Ranji, but go play county cricket. Go learn to bowl with the red ball in England. Just practice. Get that under your belt and then have another couple of test specialists.

[00:39:04] Because the problem is we want Bumrah and Shami to play all three formats now, which is fine. They're the best two. But their bodies won't. And anyone else? Nobody else? They're going to be IPL because of the money, right? Now we're talking about Ashdeep coming back. Not coming back. Making a debut in test cricket. So it's hard with the IPL, but in concept, I agree with what you're saying. All right. Varun, the red ball series, red ball series in Australia at least season is over.

[00:39:31] And now we're very quickly pivoting to 50 over cricket, 20 over cricket, and then the Champions Trophy will be here. So thank you for reliving the very painful Bordegavisker Trophy with me. To our listeners, thank you for being patient with us as the holidays didn't allow us to put out episodes of the frequency with which we want. But we are back. We will be back next week to preview the India-England series, which is going to be a totally different kind of approach to what we've had to deal with across Australia for a little bit. And then before we know it, Champions Trophy IPL. Varun, I think you've been saying you're pretty busy till June now. So it's going to be good.

[00:40:02] It's going to be an exciting kind of spring season of cricket. To everybody joining us, again, if you're on YouTube, hit that like button, hit that subscribe button. If you are on anything else listening, send us in your messages. Add one tip on hand, leave us a YouTube comment, Twitter, Facebook, all of the above. We'd love to hear from you. We'll be back next week to talk the upcoming India-England series. This is the Edges and Sledges Cricket Podcast. Signing off.