The last time Chad & Cheese welcomed Jeff "The Job Board Doctor" Chasey-Dickens to the podcast, chaos ensued as Cheese's Four Horsemen of the job board apocalypse rode wild in a healthy debate on the future of job boards. This time, the doc brings his own flavor of death and destruction he sees for the job board industry, dubbed Unholy Trinity. Three isn't as much as four, but the despair is no less frightening. If you're a job board owner or employee, it's a must listen.
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[00:01:37] That is thiswayglobal.com.
[00:01:41] We out.
[00:01:42] Hi, it's your kids.
[00:01:44] Lock the doors.
[00:01:45] You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast.
[00:01:48] Chad Soash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where
[00:01:53] hers.
[00:01:54] Complete with breaking news from Ash's opinion and loads of snark.
[00:01:58] Bottle up boys and girls.
[00:01:59] It's on for the Chavans.
[00:02:02] Oh yeah.
[00:02:25] What's up everybody?
[00:02:26] It's Mack McClaung's favorite podcast, aka the Chad and Cheese podcast.
[00:02:30] I'm your co-host Joel Cheeseman.
[00:02:33] Join us always, the posh to my David Chad Soash is in the house and we welcome back Jeff
[00:02:39] Dickie Chasens aka the job board doctor.
[00:02:43] Jeff, welcome back to the podcast.
[00:02:45] Howdy boys.
[00:02:46] How's it going?
[00:02:48] Like a true island.
[00:02:49] Howdy boys.
[00:02:50] How are we doing?
[00:02:51] I'm just going down, I'm shucking some corn and feeding the cows.
[00:02:54] I'm ready to podcast.
[00:02:56] That's damn right.
[00:02:57] So aside from your folksy demeanor, for those that don't know you on the show, give them
[00:03:03] a quick Twitter bio about the doctor.
[00:03:06] Yeah so I am a job board geek.
[00:03:10] I am a job board consultant.
[00:03:12] I work with job boards all over the world in terms of helping them make more money and
[00:03:18] be more successful.
[00:03:19] I've been in the industry since the late 90s and worked with hundreds and hundreds and
[00:03:24] hundreds of job boards.
[00:03:25] And if you've got a problem, you should go to jobboarddoctor.com and I will help you
[00:03:30] solve your problem.
[00:03:31] Oh well we talked about some job board problems or at least the ones that Joel thought were
[00:03:39] going to happen.
[00:03:40] And so that was that was an entirely other podcast and we didn't have enough time to
[00:03:45] actually get to this.
[00:03:47] So we're like shit, you know what?
[00:03:48] This could be a podcast in itself.
[00:03:50] Joel had his four horsemen.
[00:03:52] That's great.
[00:03:55] We had an entire discussion around those.
[00:03:57] Now we want to hear from the job board doctor, you had three which Joel coined the unholy
[00:04:03] trinity.
[00:04:04] Right?
[00:04:05] So we wanted to actually take some time and start running through some of those.
[00:04:10] So Joel get any set up for this.
[00:04:11] Let's go let's start with I guess the most potent threat to the job board industry doctor.
[00:04:17] This is on you in potent.
[00:04:19] Hit us.
[00:04:20] All right.
[00:04:21] Well number one on my list is appcast and I want to preface this by saying what?
[00:04:27] I want to preface this by saying that in reality, I feel like I'm sort of doing a devil's advocate
[00:04:33] thing here in writing this because I honestly look at that at all three of these threats
[00:04:39] and they are potential threats whether they ever become real or not.
[00:04:43] I am pretty skeptical but I will go through it anyway because if they do become real they're
[00:04:49] going to be deadly for the job board industry.
[00:04:51] So appcast of course everyone knows is the major force out there in programmatic and they've
[00:04:57] been very, very successful in executing and getting bigger and bigger and bigger.
[00:05:03] They're active in the EU, they're active in the UK, they're active in the US and Canada
[00:05:09] and they recently brought Bayer's advertising agency really well known, well connected recruitment
[00:05:16] agency.
[00:05:18] What do I start hearing from my clients this year?
[00:05:20] I start hearing from my clients, larger clients.
[00:05:24] G, we just lost XYZ client to appcasts.
[00:05:30] They say that we don't need you anymore and then someone else calls me and they say the
[00:05:35] same thing.
[00:05:36] I started thinking about this and I'm thinking this model reminds me a lot of what indeed
[00:05:42] did where they sort of came in and they worked.
[00:05:45] They partnered with job boards and then a certain point they dumped job boards, cut out
[00:05:51] the middle man start working direct with employers.
[00:05:53] Now the interesting follow on to this is after this was published I got a reach out from
[00:06:00] Chris Foreman who is the CEO of appcasts and I've known Chris for a long time.
[00:06:05] We've worked a reach around what?
[00:06:07] I said a reach around what it's a joke that I make on the show occasionally.
[00:06:11] Okay.
[00:06:12] Keep going.
[00:06:13] You're too witty for me.
[00:06:15] He's open that he gets one.
[00:06:17] Anyway, fly over my head.
[00:06:18] I'll just keep talking.
[00:06:20] So he and I had a chat and he made a reasonable argument to me that in fact they function
[00:06:30] as the industry middleman and that's what makes them thrive and that they don't have
[00:06:37] the capacity or the interest or the desire to have these direct relationships even with
[00:06:43] Bayard with the whole sort of rainbow of companies that are out there.
[00:06:49] Now companies you mean higher companies, direct employer companies.
[00:06:53] Direct employers yeah.
[00:06:55] And I give him a little you know he made a reasonable argument.
[00:07:01] I'm still not sure I buy it because appcast is part of stepstone and appcast will not always
[00:07:09] be run by Chris and appcast will continue to grow.
[00:07:14] And as we've seen with indeed one of the things that makes a company grow is to dump partners
[00:07:21] and go directly for their clients over and over and over again.
[00:07:25] So I would stick with that if that really happens, if they go forward and they keep doing
[00:07:29] this over and over again, it's going to be a real problem for mid tier and large job
[00:07:33] boards.
[00:07:34] Maybe not the little ones.
[00:07:35] So Jeff let's I don't want to say dumb this down, but so the threat is why use a middleman
[00:07:42] and indeed or another job board when I can go directly to the relationship with appcast
[00:07:47] where I'm I assume I'm paying less per click.
[00:07:51] The traffic is cheaper.
[00:07:53] So why would I ever use another job board when I can go direct to the service?
[00:07:57] That's the threat.
[00:07:58] Am I missing anything on that any nuance to why people are leaving job boards for that?
[00:08:03] To get the access to the full range of things that appcasts can do not only through the
[00:08:10] appcast network, but through the advertising agency they've acquired because ad agents
[00:08:16] are very good at sort of putting together packages in a way that historically job boards
[00:08:20] have not been so good at doing.
[00:08:23] So you put those two things together particularly for enterprise employers it's a pretty strong
[00:08:28] argument.
[00:08:29] So here's a thing though you're talking about appcasts being prospectively a threat
[00:08:34] to job boards and without a robust ecosystem of job sites indeed and LinkedIn win.
[00:08:41] So why in the hell would appcasts kill job boards when it's not in their best interest?
[00:08:45] Now they did take down and LinkedIn or an indeed or something like that there's still
[00:08:49] a much larger ecosystem than actually works there.
[00:08:52] So to me I understand in this it sounds good but it doesn't make any sense because appcast
[00:08:58] doesn't have other than step stone and shit that's all in Europe right.
[00:09:02] They don't have any entities that are actually here so they would be killing themselves
[00:09:07] and they would literally be handing over all the business to indeed in LinkedIn.
[00:09:14] So why do you think they would do that?
[00:09:16] Why do you think this is prospectively a problem for job boards?
[00:09:20] So again I said I'm playing devil's advocate here right?
[00:09:23] So I've been around long enough that I've seen companies act against their own best interest
[00:09:29] in pursuit of quarterly profits and now that they're part of the step stone group their
[00:09:39] future is not necessarily their own.
[00:09:42] There's a lot of things that could happen particularly if step stone IPOs and a lot
[00:09:48] of pressures brought to bear on appcasts to make up for shortcomings in the other parts
[00:09:53] of the company.
[00:09:56] Chris leaves maybe his executive team leaves and anything could happen.
[00:10:02] I watched DICE shoot themselves in the foot, literally just bankrupt themselves.
[00:10:08] We all did Jeff.
[00:10:10] You did from the inside right?
[00:10:12] And I watched Monster do the same thing and I watched many large theoretically good companies
[00:10:20] do dumb things.
[00:10:21] Steve did something dumb last year with paper application.
[00:10:26] So it could happen.
[00:10:28] Jeff, appcast is not the only game in town and there are new ones popping up all the time.
[00:10:34] We talked about the rebirth if you will of jobster being a programmatic sonat.
[00:10:41] So what happens in that world?
[00:10:43] Because from where I sit the whole game has been erased to the bottom.
[00:10:47] It started at the bottom.
[00:10:49] It went high and then Google came along.
[00:10:51] We'll get to search engines in a second.
[00:10:52] But this always seems like where can I get it cheaper?
[00:10:56] Where can I get it easier and appcasts is going to have competition.
[00:11:01] That's going to impact them.
[00:11:02] Where do you see the whole programmatic universe playing out?
[00:11:06] Well, it reminds me a lot of what happened in the late 2000s with aggregators in the
[00:11:11] growth of aggregators where it was sort of the same trajectory.
[00:11:17] One of the problems for aggregators was differentiating themselves in the sense that the argument
[00:11:22] that I'm cheaper may initially be persuasive.
[00:11:26] But then if I'm cheaper but I get no good results, that's a problem for the aggregator that's
[00:11:31] a problem for the programmatic vendor.
[00:11:34] And I think ultimately you may have this initial burst of popularity if you lowball everyone.
[00:11:42] But if you don't deliver, then ultimately it doesn't help you as a company.
[00:11:48] And I think one of the things appcast has done as far as I can tell from talking to employers
[00:11:53] is it has actually been pretty good at delivering on quality.
[00:11:58] So that's an argument that if they change, that's going to hurt their quality.
[00:12:03] To your point, it could open up the door for other competitors.
[00:12:07] But ultimately a lot of this is going to come back to who has that best mix of price
[00:12:12] and quality.
[00:12:14] You can't just go all the way to the bottom.
[00:12:16] Yeah, I think competitors are going to keep them honest.
[00:12:19] Because there's no particular secret sauce that appcast has, right?
[00:12:25] Data.
[00:12:26] I would say one of their secret sauce pieces was sort of the development of their software
[00:12:32] is I believe in my opinion, it's more sophisticated than their competitors at this point.
[00:12:38] Doesn't mean that someone else can't come in and shake that up.
[00:12:41] But they've got the advantage in terms of first mover and the fact that they technologically
[00:12:46] were better than many of their competitors.
[00:12:50] Let's hit the aspect of Bayard up real quick.
[00:12:52] I want to break this up into appcast and Bayard.
[00:12:54] So recruitment at agencies, they've been around since the days of newspaper, yellow pages
[00:12:58] before that, right?
[00:13:00] But a more chaotic landscape benefits them because employers can't make heads or tails
[00:13:05] of the market.
[00:13:06] That's why they need an ad agency.
[00:13:08] So taming the ecosystem doesn't make any sense.
[00:13:12] And for Chris to say, oh, we can't deal with all those big brands.
[00:13:15] Come on, Chris.
[00:13:16] That's fucking stupid.
[00:13:18] You want all those big brands in your portfolio?
[00:13:20] You need all those big brands in your portfolio.
[00:13:24] And so I call bullshit on that.
[00:13:27] But from that standpoint, a more chaotic market means these big brands have to go to the
[00:13:33] Bayards of the world because they just can't make heads or tails of it.
[00:13:36] Why do you think Bayard would want to make this cleaner and easier by killing off other
[00:13:43] job sites?
[00:13:44] Money.
[00:13:45] But again, it doesn't be whove them.
[00:13:49] It doesn't be whove them from a long term standpoint, right?
[00:13:53] It doesn't because a more chaotic market means they have to be there.
[00:13:56] I don't disagree with you on that.
[00:14:00] Okay, listener, how can you help your employees become more productive?
[00:14:05] I have answers.
[00:14:06] How about automating manual and repetitive tasks, giving meaning to data, then allowing
[00:14:12] that data to actually drive decisions?
[00:14:15] And how about matching people to your job's quicker?
[00:14:18] Well, wait, the chat in cheese has a new LLM.
[00:14:23] No, cheeseman.
[00:14:24] Talking about text kernel.
[00:14:26] Okay, that makes more sense.
[00:14:29] What I'm hearing is the groundbreaking concept of, wait for it.
[00:14:34] Simplicity.
[00:14:35] Seriously though, seriously.
[00:14:38] Text kernel cuts through the complexities like a tortilla chip through some hot nacho
[00:14:43] cheese.
[00:14:44] Oh my god.
[00:14:45] Really?
[00:14:46] Nacho references already.
[00:14:47] Anyways, text kernel brings efficiency and productivity to your operations.
[00:14:52] Text kernel seamlessly unifies your tools and data to drive efficiencies and success.
[00:14:59] Text kernel is creating new opportunities for your recruitment journey, kind of like adding
[00:15:05] guac to my barbacoa burrito.
[00:15:07] Oh my god.
[00:15:08] How about extracting meaningful insights from data?
[00:15:12] I mean, that's something swiftly matching people with jobs, automating repetitive tasks.
[00:15:18] Who knew such advanced concepts were even possible in the land of human resources?
[00:15:26] We did, Chad.
[00:15:27] We did.
[00:15:28] Dude, wrap it up.
[00:15:29] I'm a little hungry.
[00:15:31] Imagine that.
[00:15:32] Okay, listener, get ready to use today's tech to drive efficiencies and productivity.
[00:15:37] Visit textcurnell.com.
[00:15:39] That's T-E-X-T-K-E-R-N-E-L dot com.
[00:15:46] Mmm, nachos.
[00:15:51] Let's get to point number two.
[00:15:53] I'm not sure I won't even go through the beating on this one.
[00:16:01] Oh you want that one?
[00:16:02] That's one in some ways is more realistic.
[00:16:05] Although again, I still think it's probability rate of maybe 20% or less.
[00:16:12] It's what I call the death of the search engines, right?
[00:16:15] From the very beginning of the job board industry, it's revolved around the altavistas and
[00:16:22] the Yahoo's and the Googles of the world in terms of discovery.
[00:16:27] Job boards knew that that was both a strength and a weakness which is why you have job boards
[00:16:32] like Monster trying to build a big brand so that people come direct to them and bypass
[00:16:37] it.
[00:16:38] There is something out there right now that could...
[00:16:42] There are several things out there right now that could unseat Google or any other search
[00:16:48] engine.
[00:16:49] You look at TikTok, that's a discovery engine at this point for a large piece of the population
[00:16:55] just the way Facebook was for a decade or so.
[00:16:58] You've got...
[00:16:59] Late down to...
[00:17:00] It's to a lesser degree.
[00:17:01] Then you've got AI which...
[00:17:05] Who's to say...
[00:17:06] There's already plenty of people out there building little apps that say, hey, just punch
[00:17:10] this into the app.
[00:17:11] We'll bring all this stuff to you.
[00:17:13] Someone might hit that right mix of ease of use and quality that jumps out the way Google
[00:17:21] jumped out at one point in time and basically people say, that's my discovery engine.
[00:17:28] You've got thousands of job boards who all of their efforts are tied to SEO on search engines
[00:17:33] and suddenly they've got a switch and figured out how the hell are they going to be discovered
[00:17:38] at this point.
[00:17:39] Yeah.
[00:17:40] They...
[00:17:41] Job boards are great survivors.
[00:17:43] I mean, you could call them the cockroaches of the recruitment industry.
[00:17:49] There can be this nuclear blast that destroys everything in their recruitment industry and
[00:17:52] there'll still be job boards out there cranking out content and getting people jobs.
[00:18:05] They could probably figure it out but the pain and suffering could be very substantial if
[00:18:09] this happened in a short period of time.
[00:18:11] Yeah.
[00:18:12] I agree 100 percent.
[00:18:13] I think this is to be quite frank of the three, the biggest...
[00:18:17] And it could be the biggest impact but Google has already starting to enhance their traditional
[00:18:22] search with generative AI.
[00:18:24] So anyone who's paying attention will understand that they have to continue moving and not
[00:18:29] standing still.
[00:18:30] Now those organizations who do stand still are threatened.
[00:18:32] Yes, but those who are more fluid, they have a better opportunity.
[00:18:36] And for instance, when programmatic advertising started, job boards could have seized up one
[00:18:41] into the fetal position and just died.
[00:18:44] And they didn't.
[00:18:45] They embraced programmatic and sources tell me that a company, a little company named
[00:18:49] CareerBuilder that still isn't dead yet, they're making over a million dollars a month
[00:18:54] just in programmatic alone.
[00:18:55] Right?
[00:18:56] So we've seen whether the cockroaches are not, they've been able to evolve in some cases
[00:19:03] to be able to ensure that they're finding new revenue streams.
[00:19:06] And it's probably from dealing with guys like you over the years, smack them in the head
[00:19:11] and saying, hey there's opportunity here.
[00:19:13] Go get the revenue.
[00:19:14] So I do think search engines are a problem but they're only a problem for organizations
[00:19:19] who aren't paying attention.
[00:19:21] You know, it's interesting.
[00:19:22] I would argue that there's been no more disruptive force in our industry than Google was
[00:19:29] before, like even before the internet.
[00:19:31] And a lot of people would like to go back to the days where you got your local paper, all
[00:19:35] the jobs were sort of nearby.
[00:19:37] Who are those people?
[00:19:38] And those people.
[00:19:39] Who are those people?
[00:19:40] The agencies who made a lot of money on display at.
[00:19:43] There are one of those people still alive.
[00:19:45] But there are those people that still would like to go back to those times.
[00:19:50] And when Monster came along, it was like Monster was going to be the monolithic newspaper
[00:19:55] for everybody, the classified section for everybody.
[00:19:58] Chad, you know this story about talking about $5,000 ads.
[00:20:02] Yeah.
[00:20:03] Just display ads on the internet.
[00:20:05] Andy McElvy wanted every job to be $1,000.
[00:20:09] That was his peak man.
[00:20:10] Andy McElvy, the CEO of TMP who owned Monster at the time.
[00:20:15] We talked about him meetings all the time.
[00:20:17] And people did Super Bowl ads because they wanted to be Coke or Pepsi or Fanta and then
[00:20:22] they wanted to have the pricing accordingly to that.
[00:20:25] Google came along and let some dude in his mom's house in Toledo optimize for Toledo jobs
[00:20:32] and that person had a business because of the traffic that Google created.
[00:20:37] And that ultimately kind of smashed the whole Monster ethos and then he came along and
[00:20:42] said, we're going to do search just for jobs and we're going to leverage Google to be
[00:20:47] that thing.
[00:20:48] And then you know this is what we have today is sort of in response to that.
[00:20:53] So to me there's no other more disruptive force than our industry than Google has been.
[00:20:57] Do we have co-pilots one day that we say, hey, co-pilot, hey, jeeps, whatever.
[00:21:03] What's a perfect job for me and 10, you know within 10 miles of where I am right now?
[00:21:08] And jeeps or whatever co-pilot says, here's a list of 12 jobs.
[00:21:12] Do you want me to apply to them today?
[00:21:14] Sure, they send you or whatever and then like you're done.
[00:21:17] There's no search for that.
[00:21:18] That could happen.
[00:21:20] That's a possibility.
[00:21:21] You know, one of the things that's funny to me is you guys always say like job boards are
[00:21:25] going to die.
[00:21:26] If you go back to that interview, the four apocalypse, I don't know if I ever say they're going
[00:21:29] to die.
[00:21:30] They're still help wanted ads in every window of every like retailer that I see.
[00:21:35] There's still newspaper ads.
[00:21:36] There's still radio spots.
[00:21:38] It's not going to die.
[00:21:39] I just think there's no growth there.
[00:21:41] Which could I think if that happens we go back to a day where we have these sort of monolithic
[00:21:46] brands.
[00:21:47] It's the companies that can afford advertising and local markets.
[00:21:50] It's the companies that can put billboards up and radio spots that are going to have people
[00:21:54] drive directly to their sites and not use Google.
[00:21:57] I think there's a way that we could go sort of circle back to more bigger brands on the
[00:22:02] job board space if we lose search engines, which is a big if.
[00:22:07] That's a big if.
[00:22:08] That's a big if well one of the things I tell my clients and I mean this is not you know
[00:22:11] this is nothing unusual for people at no marketing but a really simple way to make 20 25%
[00:22:18] more money with your job board is to build a brand around the job board.
[00:22:22] I've seen it happen over and over and over again you know it's like anonymous job board
[00:22:26] point A you know when you turn it into something that you know you know chats jobs for you
[00:22:31] and you put a you you wrap it in that brand and suddenly you've got a lot more people
[00:22:36] giving you money.
[00:22:37] It's just it's one of those things that happens and the smart job boards out there know
[00:22:41] that as well as they know hey I've got to pay attention to all the technological changes
[00:22:45] are going on I need to suck this in suck this input this in just good business.
[00:22:50] And by and large SEO unless you're a big brand is not an option for most people.
[00:22:56] I mean there are a lot of niche boards that don't exist anymore because they can't rank
[00:22:59] for Tito jobs because indeed zip and LinkedIn and all the big brands that have the trust
[00:23:05] are what's ranking now it's really hard to rank unless you're a big sort of brand that's
[00:23:10] well known Google's done a good job of doing that and everything's personalized.
[00:23:15] Google tracks what you do where you go it's like there used to be a day where you could
[00:23:19] say hey go to Google and type in Cleveland nursing jobs and everybody got the same result today
[00:23:24] that's not the case right so salespeople can't do that anymore sites aren't launched
[00:23:29] with SEO in mind I would I would say in some ways search is dead for a lot of a lot of
[00:23:34] companies were it would have been alive 20 years ago it would have been the way that we
[00:23:38] market 20 years ago no Joe you're wrong you're wrong you're wrong it's evolving yeah well
[00:23:44] I mean on which part on the search part of it because what's happened is there's been
[00:23:50] a transition that you know some some niche boards were on top of this to begin with but a
[00:23:56] lot of them have have transitioned over to content marketing and the content is what's
[00:24:01] driving people to their site and the rankings they're getting on the content versus
[00:24:06] the rankings they get on the job listings you're just proving that I'm right because they
[00:24:10] can't they can't they can't rank for state city jobs anymore they have to go deeper into
[00:24:16] the content so yeah yeah to me your statement is proving that I'm right because they can't
[00:24:21] do that anymore they have to be content is content job content versus being able to build
[00:24:26] your own content you're not right she's been you're wrong the number of searches done
[00:24:30] you're wrong what he's talking about are much less than Indianapolis I know you're trying
[00:24:35] to twist out of this but you're not content is contents no he didn't he will roll back and
[00:24:41] prove you easily wrong number three are you struggling to attract the talent you need today
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[00:25:34] today well done yes like how he pivots off on me on that one all right Jeff number three number
[00:25:44] three and you guys are going to have a lot of fun on this one so my my my my thought is okay what if
[00:25:52] true generational change happens in the recruitment and HR world right and you've got all of these
[00:26:00] millennials and gen whatever uh you know i call them gen r in the in the in the article that basically
[00:26:08] they grew up in a a world that's alien to the vast majority of people that are running uh
[00:26:14] job boards you know I mean you could argue that we live in that world right now but believe me having
[00:26:18] a 28 year old daughter brings us home to me almost every single day when I have conversations with her
[00:26:25] and they just don't look at the world the same way and they don't think about any of those
[00:26:30] traditional channels and you know and so you've got job boards they're chasing TikTok but then
[00:26:35] they put out stuff on TikTok that is not TikTok native you know and they they literally just no
[00:26:42] longer understand the world they're operating in and and and this gen r audience you know
[00:26:49] sort of looks at it is like you know we have sort of a different construct in terms of how we attract
[00:26:53] candidates how we find candidates how we lure candidates in and job boards aren't even part of that
[00:26:59] picture now to counter myself I'll say that I've already seen uh out there that some job boards simply
[00:27:06] refuse the title we're not a job board and they put themselves in a different box and just says no
[00:27:12] you know we're you know we're we're this or we're that and and some have been successful that way
[00:27:18] you know uh just like HR sometimes job boards can be pretty slow moving and and not so self-aware
[00:27:25] so I think that's a threat I'm not sure if it would destroy the industry or not but it could
[00:27:30] yeah I think it's interesting because I don't think recruiters are going to have a hand in that
[00:27:34] at all um everything's becoming so automated you've got process automation that's happening you've
[00:27:38] got programmatic uh some of those programmatic players are going to go even further down funnel
[00:27:43] to better understand more easily laser target individuals who have proven they have the skills
[00:27:49] to be able to do the jobs uh and recruiters aren't going to be picking what job boards they go to
[00:27:54] like they do today or they have done in the past right so all that's going to go away the recruiters
[00:27:59] not going to be they're not even going to know where their jobs are popping up right so process
[00:28:04] automation I see a lot of that happening uh and that's good and that's very good because the
[00:28:09] recruiters of yesterday year the ones who had rollolexes the ones who this was their profession
[00:28:15] they kicked ass they took names some of them are still around not many of them exist anymore we have
[00:28:20] a generation or a couple of generations of lazy ass recruiters who post a job and they sit back
[00:28:26] and they fucking wait until the candidate applies comment right and then they they work off of that
[00:28:32] we're moving I think into a scenario where most of those are going to get kicked to the curb
[00:28:37] and the ones who actually want it to be a profession um are going to be working directly with process
[00:28:43] automation so yeah i that's that's my take on the generational gap yeah uh far be it for me to
[00:28:50] predict what generations uh that aren't even born yet are gonna be doing in terms of getting
[00:28:56] their formation I mean it kind of goes back to the search engine thing where do we have a copilot
[00:28:59] that answers all your life's questions whether it's where do I where should I work based on what
[00:29:04] I what i've done or my education and it just kind of serves it up that's world we could get into
[00:29:09] I think the gig economy is really interesting people more and more people are saying why go through
[00:29:13] the traditional way of getting employment or work uh these platforms exist I think LinkedIn probably
[00:29:19] is in a good spot in that world uh we're gen i mean i still think most people that go to school or
[00:29:25] in high school are told you got to join linkedin like linkedin is still where you got to be
[00:29:30] to network and find people and connect to as many people as you can in that world of social
[00:29:36] meeting connection which i think is going to be a long term then i think linkedin isn't a very good
[00:29:41] position because people will still professionally want to connect in a network and right now linkedin
[00:29:46] is the only only game in town they need to get their job shit right uh because they do a really poor
[00:29:52] job of serving up related jobs like i'm still getting a host and hostess jobs at restaurants because
[00:29:58] I'm a co-host of a podcast so they really need to up their game on search job search but uh yeah
[00:30:06] i'm not going to predict what generations will do i don't think anyone here will but yeah there's
[00:30:10] a good chance that they don't go to a search engine and search for jobs and then go to job boards and
[00:30:16] like you know weed through job postings then apply to jobs there's really a chance that that
[00:30:22] changes in the next few decades yeah being on linkedin isn't the same as using linkedin i mean
[00:30:28] we're the one of the biggest problems that we have is that we're in this industry and we're on
[00:30:33] at every fucking day most of the people in linkedin aren't right their their information isn't up
[00:30:38] to date i mean i see where there are definite opportunities for other organizations to come in
[00:30:46] and actually take a lot of the market share uh from linkedin just because as Joel had said
[00:30:53] the tech is shit right unless they actually buy somebody some someone to re you know re-energize
[00:31:02] what the what they provide to the users um the tiktok's of the world i mean my daughter is on
[00:31:07] linkedin she's probably been on wants to put her information in and that's it she's on tiktok she's
[00:31:12] on insta all those things right so i think again we just we have to move to where the puck is
[00:31:19] and where it's going and today how much time when i put on linkedin i would definitely do it for
[00:31:24] professionals but for gen z's and maybe even younger millennials i don't think that's where you hit
[00:31:30] them yep and then there's direct mail which is has made a comeback my friend has made a comeback
[00:31:36] you forgot about qr codes qr codes are the death of also made a comeback and the death of us let's
[00:31:42] let's review the three there Jeff number one you had a programmatic or apcast specifically
[00:31:47] i'm being a threat to the job boards number two you had search engines or the the demise of search
[00:31:52] engines or something replacing search and then number three you had generational change those kids
[00:31:58] are going to do it differently and that's going to change the whole ballgame any of any others that
[00:32:03] like did make the cut or anything that you thought about since then that might might make the
[00:32:07] cut i know unholy trinity was a good honorable mentions good spin but do you any any more out there
[00:32:13] that you think are threats uh you know i was i was really kind of scraping the bottom of the barrel
[00:32:17] there because i mean honestly i'm incredibly optimistic about the future of job boards i mean it's
[00:32:22] a horrible name right everyone agrees that uh it does not match the reality of the most successful
[00:32:30] and dynamic players in the industry and contrary to what you say Joel it continues to be very
[00:32:35] lucrative it's growing uh and it continues to develop in markets all around the world so no i don't
[00:32:42] i don't have any other big uh you know things that i sort of think oh my god if this happens it's
[00:32:47] going to destroy the industry i think the most likely thing that would destroy the industry is
[00:32:52] the thing that's also the most unlikely which is that successful job boards quit paying attention
[00:32:59] they become like gm you know or forward back in the 70s they're sort of sitting there fat and happy
[00:33:06] because you know what happens monster was fort you know a monster was gm monster was christler
[00:33:12] that they crashed and other job boards jumped up and took their market share right and they
[00:33:20] it's a very opportunistic industry it's a very uh it's one that's very focused on pulling in
[00:33:27] new technologies but also not like crazy technologies it's like i want a technology that works
[00:33:34] it's totally predictable and it's something that my clients want then i'll pull it in and use it
[00:33:38] so instead of something that will kill possibly the job boards or the job sites job
[00:33:44] job site technology that's out there today what is the one thing that you think every single
[00:33:50] job site should focus on because that's going to be the thing that will propel them or amplify them
[00:33:57] into being more successful uh guys i'm sorry i got to be boring here but it's what i tell every
[00:34:03] single client that i talked to whether they've been around for 30 years or whether they've been
[00:34:08] around for 15 minutes it's it's the candidate stupid it's like if you focus on the candidates
[00:34:14] if you focus boring but true boring but true it's it's very strange because you know i have work with
[00:34:24] clients that've been very resistant to that and then they come back at some point in the future
[00:34:29] and they say you know you were right when we started paying attention to the candidates we
[00:34:33] started making more money it's simple but it's not easy you know it's not an easy thing to actually
[00:34:40] sort of put yourself in the mindset of your candidates particularly if they're a particularly
[00:34:45] hard to reach type of candidate but if you do it um you'll you'll get them in you'll and then
[00:34:52] the money will flow in from employers guaranteed there it is kids there it is pay attention
[00:34:57] dickie chasins aka the job board doctor jeff far listeners who want to know more about you where
[00:35:03] do you send them i'll keep it simple go to jobboarddoctor.com and if you want to talk to me just click
[00:35:10] on the contact b button to easy agree to disagree chat that's another one in the can we out
[00:35:20] wow look at you you made it through an entire episode of the chat and chase podcast
[00:35:25] or maybe you cheated and fast-forwarded to the end either way there's no doubt you wish you had
[00:35:31] that time back valuable time you could have used to buy a nutritious meal and talk about
[00:35:38] enjoy a poor of your favorite whiskey or just watch big booty latinas and bug fights on ticktalk
[00:35:47] now you hung out with these two chuckleheads instead now go take a shower and wash off all the guilt
[00:35:55] but save some soap because you'll be back like an awful train wreck you can't look away
[00:36:03] and like chas favorite western you can't quit them either we out
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