Transform Onstage: A Dive into HR Innovation and Challenges

[00:00:00] Yo Chad, what if I told you there's a platform that could completely revolutionize your

[00:00:06] hiring strategy in a matter of hours?

[00:00:10] Yeah, I'd call a bullshit.

[00:00:11] Well, it's not bullshit with AI for jobs powered by our friends at this way global.

[00:00:17] Okay, I'm listening.

[00:00:19] Well, everyone else is fishing in the same old talent pools.

[00:00:22] AI for jobs can source over 160 million diverse candidate profiles.

[00:00:29] This way global has established unique partnerships with over 8,500 trusted diversity partners.

[00:00:36] So wait a minute.

[00:00:37] All of the hard on the groundwork is already done.

[00:00:40] That's right, cowboy.

[00:00:41] You can discover 300 qualified candidates per job rack instantly.

[00:00:45] Wow!

[00:00:46] It's like having a candidate sourcing magic wand.

[00:00:49] Haha, dude, if you had a magic wand, you would have Mexican pizzas all day.

[00:00:57] Not distracting me so, Ash.

[00:00:59] AI for jobs advanced matching algorithm analyzes past applicants using trillions of historical

[00:01:05] matching events in over 1,600 data points.

[00:01:09] Now that is what AI should be doing, saving recruiters time on sourcing while they provide

[00:01:15] a white glove candidate experience.

[00:01:18] Let's wrap this shit up.

[00:01:19] I'm hungry.

[00:01:20] Listen up kids.

[00:01:22] Revolutionize your hiring process today by jumping over to thiswayglobal.com and checking

[00:01:27] out AI for jobs where you can learn more about how to leverage AI for your recruiting instead

[00:01:34] of just writing poems and grocery lists.

[00:01:37] That is thiswayglobal.com.

[00:01:41] We out!

[00:01:43] Hello listener.

[00:01:44] On March 12th, Joel and I were in Las Vegas, Nevada for Transform where we got on stage

[00:01:50] with Carolyn Fry, Chief People Officer over at Hungry Root, Jessica Swank, Chief People

[00:01:55] Officer at Box and Joey Lee, Head of Talent Acquisition at Panda.

[00:02:00] They joined Joel and myself on stage for an unfiltered discussion which spanned several

[00:02:06] topics that were important to them.

[00:02:09] Enjoy!

[00:02:10] Hi, your kids.

[00:02:12] Lock the doors.

[00:02:13] You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast.

[00:02:16] Chad Soosh and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where

[00:02:20] hers.

[00:02:21] Complete with breaking news, broads opinion and loads of sirens.

[00:02:25] Bottle up boys and girls.

[00:02:27] It's time for the Chad and G's podcast.

[00:02:30] Chad!

[00:02:31] Oh yeah!

[00:02:32] What's up everybody?

[00:02:34] It's Keratop's favorite podcast, aka The Chad and G's podcast.

[00:02:42] He's in my beer house.

[00:02:43] My name is Joel Cheeseman.

[00:02:46] We got a rookie up here.

[00:02:49] Now you all know what I have to deal with.

[00:02:51] Anyway, I'm your co-host, Joel Cheeseman.

[00:02:54] Join us always.

[00:02:56] The mind to my freak.

[00:02:57] Chad Soosh is in the house.

[00:03:00] Somebody get him a sippy cup please.

[00:03:03] Sippy cup and we're excited to welcome Carolyn Frye, raise your hand so we all know who

[00:03:10] you are.

[00:03:11] Chief People Officer at Hungry Root, Jessica Swank, Chief People Officer at Box and Joely

[00:03:21] rounding up the starting four at Panda, also known as Panda Express and Panda Inn, correct?

[00:03:29] So there may be a coupon code for all the pandas.

[00:03:32] Check underneath your seat.

[00:03:34] Check underneath your seat.

[00:03:35] Everyone's taking around.

[00:03:37] Discount code underneath your seat possibly.

[00:03:39] It might not be, I don't know.

[00:03:41] All right guys, we know your title and where you work.

[00:03:45] Some of the audience here doesn't know what the company does.

[00:03:48] Give us a quick Twitter explanation about what your companies do.

[00:03:52] Okay, I work for Hungry Root or Personalize Online Grocery subscription service.

[00:03:57] Super cool.

[00:03:58] You should check it out.

[00:03:59] There's a coupon code in everyone's bag.

[00:04:00] I think it's HRT40.

[00:04:01] How?

[00:04:03] AI driven, you fill out an assessment of you and your household preferences, any allergies,

[00:04:09] dietary restrictions.

[00:04:10] And then we pre-fill your grocery cart with a meal component.

[00:04:12] So you have your recipes and groceries for the week.

[00:04:15] It's amazing.

[00:04:16] Healthy eating forward.

[00:04:18] So making healthy eating easy is our mission.

[00:04:21] We'll keep trying.

[00:04:23] Okay.

[00:04:24] Persistence.

[00:04:25] Just swaying great to see everybody.

[00:04:27] So I'm at Box which is Content Cloud.

[00:04:30] All the data that you have out there, we help you manage it in a secure way.

[00:04:35] Collaboration is at the heart of what we do.

[00:04:37] Very much a SaaS company.

[00:04:39] So a little bit different than Hungry Root but very similar too.

[00:04:43] Joy.

[00:04:44] A joyly head of 10 acquisition at Panda Restaurant Group.

[00:04:49] Then with kind of for about five weeks now, it's for like five years.

[00:04:53] I'm pretty sure you guys all know about Panda with 30,000 employees deep.

[00:04:59] We're global now.

[00:05:01] And our focus to be the world leader in people development.

[00:05:04] That's one of the main reasons why I actually joined.

[00:05:06] So super stoked inside to be here.

[00:05:10] Excited until you start this.

[00:05:12] Here we go.

[00:05:13] Here we go.

[00:05:13] Okay, Jessica, first one for you.

[00:05:15] We've been hearing a lot about this whole AI thing.

[00:05:18] Quick question.

[00:05:20] Bullshit or not?

[00:05:23] For HR.

[00:05:25] For town acquisition and HR.

[00:05:27] Bullshit or not?

[00:05:29] Definitely or not.

[00:05:30] So I would say AI is here.

[00:05:33] It is the wave.

[00:05:34] It is going to change so much of what we do not only within businesses,

[00:05:38] but I think especially within our people, within our communities,

[00:05:42] everything from how we hire to how we think about learning,

[00:05:46] to how we think about assessing and understanding everything from benefits

[00:05:51] and first line, how we deal with it.

[00:05:53] So I think it's going to be a game changer and I could not be more excited.

[00:05:57] Are you using it?

[00:05:58] That's the question.

[00:05:59] Are we are using it in so many different ways.

[00:06:02] So one, so box a little short plug.

[00:06:05] We have our own box AI that we actually just went out to market.

[00:06:09] And so all of the data that we have within box,

[00:06:13] we actually then can go and query.

[00:06:15] So it's safe, it's secure.

[00:06:17] So we look at it from recruiting.

[00:06:20] So we're using it in our drop descriptions.

[00:06:22] We actually are we're in our middle of our performance management cycle

[00:06:26] and we are using it actually in writing reviews.

[00:06:30] And we did even training for our managers on how to use it in a safe way.

[00:06:35] Now it's not going to do an end-to-end,

[00:06:37] but we can really think about where and how do we best leverage it.

[00:06:40] So I think end-to-end we're using it and we're just at the start.

[00:06:45] Joey, it's got to be different at Panda.

[00:06:48] Oh gosh, AI.

[00:06:49] Are you using it?

[00:06:50] Yes, absolutely.

[00:06:52] At the Panda AI?

[00:06:54] Yeah, we have a virtual Panda that walks around.

[00:06:58] Nah, but in terms of AI itself, I mean it's a game changer.

[00:07:04] And AI has been here forever.

[00:07:06] You think about series, you think about Alexa,

[00:07:08] you think about when you jump into your car and it knows your routes every morning at 5am.

[00:07:14] It's crazy.

[00:07:15] In terms of how Panda is currently using it,

[00:07:19] when I joined Panda about five weeks ago they did not have a recruiting process.

[00:07:23] So basically, I leverage AI to generate a recruiting playbook,

[00:07:28] interview guides pretty much a recruiting workflow within two weeks.

[00:07:32] So it has expedited our process.

[00:07:36] I understand, I totally understand how AI is.

[00:07:39] It's not going to take over the world.

[00:07:40] It's just there to support you, be your guide.

[00:07:43] Plus, I actually leverage AI at home with my 11 year old daughter.

[00:07:48] So she comes up to me and she chas helped with her math homework, right?

[00:07:54] So I tell her, hey, you know what?

[00:07:56] Go on chat GBT, put that information in.

[00:07:59] If they can't answer it, come back to me.

[00:08:01] And 100% of the time gets answered.

[00:08:04] So it's been crazy.

[00:08:05] So the way the Panda Express recommendation engine always gets my order.

[00:08:10] Oh yeah.

[00:08:11] Always just right.

[00:08:12] Always.

[00:08:13] Carolyn.

[00:08:14] Yes.

[00:08:15] Oh AI.

[00:08:17] Welcome to the show.

[00:08:19] I know.

[00:08:19] I'm super giggly right now.

[00:08:22] Well, we're a company built on AI.

[00:08:23] So yes, AI, not bullshit.

[00:08:25] And I'd say I run custom.

[00:08:27] So wait, your company built on AI.

[00:08:29] Explain that first.

[00:08:31] OK.

[00:08:32] Which part?

[00:08:33] A company that's built on AI.

[00:08:37] OK, well, our algorithm is, well, it incorporates machine learning

[00:08:40] and something called operations research, which

[00:08:42] has like hard and soft constraints.

[00:08:44] A hard constraint would be like, I'm allergic to garlic

[00:08:46] or I'm allergic to onions or I don't eat dairy.

[00:08:49] You know, where a soft constraint is like, I don't like tomatoes.

[00:08:52] So that's kind of one component that's been implemented.

[00:08:55] And now we're putting in machine learning

[00:08:56] so that it's pretty predictive.

[00:08:57] So like, it's like, hey, Chad and cheese,

[00:08:59] you love these four ginger shots on every four weeks.

[00:09:02] We're going to pre-fill your grocery cart with that.

[00:09:05] Every four weeks?

[00:09:06] OK.

[00:09:06] Or whatever your preferences are.

[00:09:08] OK, so be on the old look at Ginger Shot, Chad.

[00:09:11] I love it.

[00:09:12] Where's Tim Sackett?

[00:09:13] Everybody calls him a Ginger Shot.

[00:09:15] So that was good, right?

[00:09:17] That was good.

[00:09:18] So talk about the talent acquisition side of the house.

[00:09:21] How are you using it there?

[00:09:22] Obviously your business is built on it.

[00:09:24] So how are you using it there?

[00:09:27] I mean, from the beginning we've used it for job descriptions,

[00:09:29] job postings.

[00:09:30] But we've implemented a solution bright

[00:09:32] higher just to do a plug for them here

[00:09:33] that is amazing, so helpful.

[00:09:36] Do all of our interview notes and has actually

[00:09:40] brought a lot of fairness and equity to the interview

[00:09:42] process?

[00:09:42] So that's most specifically.

[00:09:43] It's more around time efficiency, so we

[00:09:46] have a higher quality interview process

[00:09:48] and save people time.

[00:09:50] And they're awesome.

[00:09:52] Curious about AI on the other side of the equation?

[00:09:55] In other words, job seekers using AI

[00:09:58] to mass apply for jobs.

[00:10:00] Is that a concern for you guys?

[00:10:02] Are you seeing any evidence of that?

[00:10:04] More and more stories seem to be coming out about it.

[00:10:07] I mean, I think in general, I don't know if it's AI driven,

[00:10:09] but we're definitely seeing mass apply.

[00:10:11] We have a, I'm looking at someone on my team,

[00:10:12] we have a payroll position open.

[00:10:14] And the candidates, I mean, we have like 1,800 applications

[00:10:17] and half of them have no HR payroll experience.

[00:10:20] So I think the mass apply is an issue.

[00:10:22] I'm not sure if it's AI or other.

[00:10:25] Same but box.

[00:10:26] Plus one, sure.

[00:10:28] Yeah, it's the same thing.

[00:10:29] Yeah.

[00:10:30] So we were talking before today, and the labor shortage

[00:10:34] is a big story for everyone.

[00:10:36] And it was really intriguing to know that two of the three

[00:10:39] of you aren't having a lot of shortage issues.

[00:10:42] So I want you each to talk about that.

[00:10:44] And if you're not, why aren't you?

[00:10:47] And if you are, what is life like for you

[00:10:49] and how are you trying to solve that problem?

[00:10:51] Let's start with Jessica.

[00:10:53] All right.

[00:10:53] So job shortages, I would say we're

[00:10:56] not struggling with job shortage on applicant shortage.

[00:11:00] I think what we are grappling with,

[00:11:03] I think like many companies is finding the right person

[00:11:06] for the role.

[00:11:08] And I think what Kevin was just mentioning

[00:11:10] for some of our jobs, we get thousands of applicants

[00:11:13] so trying to grapple with and surf through them.

[00:11:16] And then you have other jobs, AI jobs,

[00:11:18] where there is a particular shortage

[00:11:20] of a particular skill set.

[00:11:22] We also have a global organization.

[00:11:24] And so depending on where you are, what skill you have,

[00:11:27] it depends.

[00:11:28] So it's an and, it's a yes and, I would say.

[00:11:31] So is there a training aspect of that?

[00:11:34] So you'd have to back down requirements

[00:11:35] a little bit so that you can get people in the seats

[00:11:38] and then start training because obviously,

[00:11:40] somebody in the seats better than nobody in the seat

[00:11:42] and their uptime might be a little bit longer.

[00:11:44] But still, you can work on getting there

[00:11:47] and hopefully keeping them.

[00:11:48] I think it depends on the role.

[00:11:49] I think some roles you need more harder requirements

[00:11:53] and yet other jobs absolutely.

[00:11:55] We hire a lot on potential

[00:11:58] and we hire a lot on our UR culture ad.

[00:12:01] So can you bring other aspects to the role

[00:12:03] and then how do we make sure if there are inevitable gaps

[00:12:07] or knowledge that you need to learn

[00:12:09] then we work with you to make sure that you're both up.

[00:12:14] Joey?

[00:12:15] Yeah, for us in terms of shortage.

[00:12:18] You have a shortage.

[00:12:19] We don't have a shortage.

[00:12:20] We have way too many applicants

[00:12:21] but they're not qualified applicants.

[00:12:24] And what we did is we actually start doubling down on

[00:12:27] our employee value proposition.

[00:12:29] Really promoting our benefits.

[00:12:31] We also looked at our pay rate.

[00:12:33] So we're not the midpoint, we're above midpoint out there.

[00:12:36] We also tapped into different diversity organizations

[00:12:38] looking at veterans, women back to work,

[00:12:42] all these different avenues.

[00:12:43] We actually are going international as well.

[00:12:46] So looking at international talent.

[00:12:47] So casting a wider net for us is gonna truly help us

[00:12:51] get more qualified candidates

[00:12:53] and then our recruiters are actually using

[00:12:56] AI components to parse through all the resumes

[00:12:59] because we do get a lot of volume.

[00:13:01] Carolyn, you had an interesting perspective

[00:13:03] in that Poland is a focus for you.

[00:13:06] Obviously the Ukraine issue.

[00:13:09] That was mine, wrong person.

[00:13:12] Oh, is that Jessica?

[00:13:13] Jessica, that's okay.

[00:13:14] I can talk about our lack of talent.

[00:13:15] You're not the only one that's sleep deprived.

[00:13:18] Sorry, Jesse, you were talking about the Poland Ukraine talent pool.

[00:13:23] Yeah, well, I was just saying how,

[00:13:25] so we have a very large engineering site in Poland.

[00:13:29] And so actually, you think about immigration issues.

[00:13:33] It's not only here in the US, but it's also globally.

[00:13:36] And so where we think about diversity here in the US,

[00:13:39] it looks different around the world.

[00:13:41] And so we're having to really think about

[00:13:43] where are the talent markets?

[00:13:45] Where do we make sure that we need to do it?

[00:13:46] Kind of from immigration following regulations,

[00:13:49] because again, every country has their own regulations.

[00:13:52] And yet, how do we also think about diversity

[00:13:55] and diverse pools a little bit differently?

[00:13:57] Good segue, diversity, equity and inclusion.

[00:14:01] How are you guys dealing with those challenges?

[00:14:05] Have you figured out your beer yet?

[00:14:07] Yeah, okay.

[00:14:07] I think I'm good.

[00:14:09] Start with Joey, diversity, equity, inclusion at Panda.

[00:14:13] So I think we're not, so I've been

[00:14:16] in previous organizations where Dean,

[00:14:19] I was at top of the house.

[00:14:20] I think with Panda, it's all about belonging inclusive.

[00:14:23] They're starting to roll out, D&I training.

[00:14:27] So in terms of our focus is gonna be

[00:14:30] belonging and inclusive.

[00:14:32] So we've seen in the media,

[00:14:35] there's a lot of retraction of DEI initiatives.

[00:14:39] Is that something that you were seeing not just for yourself,

[00:14:42] but also from your industry?

[00:14:45] So I'm gonna be very respectful in this conversation

[00:14:48] because I think it's a very nuanced conversation.

[00:14:50] I think it is a movement and I think companies

[00:14:54] where we've seen them retract,

[00:14:56] it is because they jumped on the fad of it was the

[00:14:59] thing to do and they did things for the bling and the press

[00:15:03] and I think that companies were a sense of inclusion,

[00:15:08] a sense of diversity, a sense of belonging was important.

[00:15:11] I think that many companies including Box

[00:15:14] have just doubled down on that.

[00:15:15] Now again, we're thinking about it more

[00:15:17] from a global aspect as well.

[00:15:19] As I mentioned earlier, as we have global organization,

[00:15:22] what does that look like globally?

[00:15:25] One of our values is bring your bling self to work.

[00:15:27] And so I think that sense of belonging, inclusion,

[00:15:31] it is integrated into the fabric of everything that we do.

[00:15:34] So our commitment to diversity, inclusion, belonging

[00:15:39] has been steadfast and will remain.

[00:15:41] We don't get at all perfect, right?

[00:15:44] We have our challenges as well,

[00:15:45] but I think for a lot of organizations not to minimize

[00:15:50] the challenges that we're seeing from some updated regulations

[00:15:54] and some very prominent figures out there,

[00:15:56] unfortunately who are having a loud voice.

[00:15:59] I think we all need to come and say no.

[00:16:02] That actually is not what we're experiencing

[00:16:04] and how do we double down and really advocate for,

[00:16:07] I think the goodness that diversity and belonging

[00:16:10] is not only for every one of us,

[00:16:12] but for the bottom line of the business.

[00:16:15] Carolyn?

[00:16:16] I mean, I agree with it's a nuanced conversation.

[00:16:19] I mean, the way I think about it is like progress

[00:16:20] is not linear.

[00:16:21] So I don't know that I describe it as a fad,

[00:16:23] but obviously was a big topic

[00:16:25] and continues to be over the last couple of years.

[00:16:28] But I would still argue we've made a lot of progress.

[00:16:30] I think we try to, like we the collective people company

[00:16:34] community tried a lot of things after,

[00:16:36] in particular, after George Floyd's murder.

[00:16:38] And I think we learned a lot

[00:16:39] and I would agree with Jessica.

[00:16:40] I mean, my personal point of view is what I learned,

[00:16:43] I had a pretty large DEIB team at my last company

[00:16:46] was that actually we need to just embed it

[00:16:48] and all the work we do in our people strategy.

[00:16:49] And that's just a far more effective and impactful approach.

[00:16:52] So I guess I disagree that it's not important

[00:16:55] or we've lost progress.

[00:16:57] I think we have.

[00:16:59] I just think that this tactic and approach is different.

[00:17:02] So we saw a lot of companies throw money at the problem.

[00:17:07] They did that in hiring studios,

[00:17:09] chief diversity officers, and then gave them no resources.

[00:17:14] What's the ever?

[00:17:15] So from my standpoint, the outcomes did not, we're not there.

[00:17:21] So is this, is it going to be a rebirth

[00:17:24] in a more outcomes focused area?

[00:17:27] Joey?

[00:17:28] Yeah, are you guys all seeing budgets increase,

[00:17:30] steady or decrease?

[00:17:32] In terms of who owns it, right?

[00:17:34] I think that's ownership, right?

[00:17:36] If you don't have a DEI team who owns it?

[00:17:39] So that's where for us.

[00:17:40] Does anybody own it?

[00:17:41] Yeah, does anybody own it?

[00:17:42] So I was just in a meeting last week

[00:17:44] and it was like playing a potato.

[00:17:47] And I just rolled up my hands, like I won't own it, right?

[00:17:49] But there's a fall under TA.

[00:17:50] So who owns it?

[00:17:51] But then the day it starts at the top of the house

[00:17:53] everyone has to have skin in the game too.

[00:17:56] So it can be truly impactful.

[00:17:58] So right now, I think it's that

[00:18:01] someone has to take ownership on it

[00:18:03] and it's that one team approach.

[00:18:04] Everyone has to be part of it.

[00:18:06] Yeah, so good question.

[00:18:07] Are you guys seeing resources more resources

[00:18:10] on the DEI side of the house?

[00:18:12] Or is it pretty much stayed plateaued?

[00:18:14] We're cutting it.

[00:18:15] Let's say the same.

[00:18:16] We've actually recently added.

[00:18:18] Now, it's one person, but everyone person.

[00:18:21] But I also totally agree.

[00:18:22] It has to be embedded in the business.

[00:18:24] I think where I saw peers and companies,

[00:18:28] they put one person and they said,

[00:18:30] now they're going to solve DEI for us in our organization.

[00:18:34] If there's everybody set up to fail,

[00:18:36] I think it has to be embedded.

[00:18:37] It is embedded into our culture.

[00:18:39] It's embedded into our hiring, our development,

[00:18:42] our offboarding.

[00:18:43] It has to also be a business problem.

[00:18:45] And I think you have to have business leaders

[00:18:47] who are also held accountable.

[00:18:49] So I think again, it has to be a holistic approach.

[00:18:53] And again, we're going to see ups and downs.

[00:18:56] But I think the trend is, Carolyn, saying, I agree.

[00:18:59] I actually think the fact that the conversation

[00:19:02] that here we are still talking about it is positive.

[00:19:06] The only thing I just, I love you, Joey.

[00:19:08] But I disagree with your statement, which is sort of like,

[00:19:10] I was a little bit on.

[00:19:11] I love Joey.

[00:19:12] Yeah, I love you.

[00:19:13] I love Panda Express.

[00:19:16] And I support you.

[00:19:17] My daughter loves it.

[00:19:19] No, it's sort of like asking who owns culture.

[00:19:22] That question, I don't know, just makes me really mad.

[00:19:25] You will all own culture.

[00:19:26] I think to Justice Point, it is in the ethos.

[00:19:27] I think that's how you said it.

[00:19:28] But somebody has to own it on it though, right?

[00:19:30] It has to be under somebody for there

[00:19:33] to be accountability.

[00:19:34] I mean, then maybe it's sort of like the CEO and executive

[00:19:36] team.

[00:19:37] But I don't think that it would be the equivalent of saying

[00:19:39] like the chief people officer owns culture.

[00:19:41] It's like, no, we enable culture.

[00:19:43] We're a big culture driver.

[00:19:44] But we don't own culture.

[00:19:46] Culture is like a collection of a lot

[00:19:48] of different decisions at data points

[00:19:51] and strategies across lots of different things

[00:19:53] is not just from the people function.

[00:19:58] OK, listener, how can you help your employees become more

[00:20:01] productive?

[00:20:02] I have answers.

[00:20:03] How about automating manual and repetitive tasks,

[00:20:07] giving meaning to data, then allowing

[00:20:09] that data to actually drive decisions?

[00:20:12] And how about matching people to your jobs quicker?

[00:20:16] Well, wait.

[00:20:17] The chat and cheese has a new LLM.

[00:20:20] No, cheeseman.

[00:20:21] I'm talking about text kernel.

[00:20:24] OK, that makes more sense.

[00:20:26] What I'm hearing is the groundbreaking concept of wait

[00:20:30] for it.

[00:20:31] Yeah.

[00:20:31] Simplicity.

[00:20:33] Seriously, though, seriously.

[00:20:35] Text kernel cuts through the complexities

[00:20:38] like a tortilla chip through some hot nacho cheese.

[00:20:41] Oh my god.

[00:20:42] Really?

[00:20:42] Nacho references already.

[00:20:44] Anyways, text kernel brings efficiency

[00:20:46] and productivity to your operations.

[00:20:49] Text kernel seamlessly unifies your tools and data

[00:20:53] to drive efficiencies and success.

[00:20:56] Text kernel is creating new opportunities

[00:20:59] for your recruitment journey.

[00:21:01] Kind of like adding guac to my barbacoa burrito.

[00:21:05] Oh my god.

[00:21:06] How about extracting meaningful insights from data?

[00:21:09] I mean, that's something swiftly

[00:21:11] matching people with jobs, automating

[00:21:14] repetitive tasks who knew such advanced concepts

[00:21:18] were even possible in the land of human resources.

[00:21:23] We did, Chad.

[00:21:25] We did.

[00:21:25] Dude, wrap it up.

[00:21:27] I'm a little hungry.

[00:21:28] Imagine that.

[00:21:29] OK, listener, get ready to use

[00:21:31] today's tech to drive efficiencies and productivity.

[00:21:34] Visit text kernel.com.

[00:21:37] That's T-E-X-T-K-E-R-N-E-L dot com.

[00:21:44] Nachos.

[00:21:48] I want to jump on the culture thing there for a second.

[00:21:52] And employment branding, obviously, is a big topic.

[00:21:55] And you're all very different from a brand perspective.

[00:22:00] granola, ask, food service, high tech, fast food.

[00:22:05] And just kidding.

[00:22:08] You have a really quirky CEO that I think

[00:22:10] plays into the employment brand as well.

[00:22:13] Just curious, we can start with Carolyn.

[00:22:16] How does employment, how do you guys approach

[00:22:18] employment brand?

[00:22:19] It sounds like it's holistic at your company

[00:22:22] and that transcends into recruiting.

[00:22:25] How do you put that message out?

[00:22:27] What's been most effective?

[00:22:28] Talk about that.

[00:22:29] OK, what's cool to work for a consumer brand?

[00:22:31] And hopefully you all try it or have tried it.

[00:22:33] Is that we think about the consumer brand

[00:22:35] and the employer brand pretty closely linked.

[00:22:39] But it also is, we're in a grateful place.

[00:22:42] Hungry it is performing really well.

[00:22:44] We have a very cool product.

[00:22:45] We have a very cool mission and story to tell.

[00:22:48] And our results are amazing.

[00:22:49] And we've been profitable for a couple of years

[00:22:51] and the core business just kicks ass.

[00:22:53] So I feel like our employer brand

[00:22:56] it sells itself because especially in this market place

[00:22:59] where there's so many companies restructuring, not profitable,

[00:23:02] startups not making it.

[00:23:04] We've been able to tell that story really well

[00:23:05] and that's going to why we don't have a talent shortage.

[00:23:07] We've been really, really lucky.

[00:23:10] Joey?

[00:23:11] Employment brand.

[00:23:12] Joey's still mad.

[00:23:13] Yeah, I'm, no, I'm still going to.

[00:23:16] Joey, get Joey another beer.

[00:23:19] In terms of our brand, it's, so our seal,

[00:23:24] it's a husband and wife.

[00:23:27] They really believe in people putting people first.

[00:23:31] Throughout COVID, they have not laid off anybody.

[00:23:34] So they actually move individuals

[00:23:36] throughout the organizations, operators

[00:23:38] move them to different parts within different departments.

[00:23:42] They have a huge stake in developing people consistently.

[00:23:47] They're tough.

[00:23:47] I mean, we call her the Tiger Mom.

[00:23:51] And our, our CEO actually goes to the store.

[00:23:54] If there's trash on the floor, he will pick it up.

[00:23:56] So he actually leads by example and everyone does that.

[00:23:59] So everyone truly follows that same suit.

[00:24:03] Aaron Levy, how do you control that guy

[00:24:05] and how does, how does he impact employment if at all?

[00:24:08] Anybody who knows Aaron knows there's no controlling.

[00:24:11] I joke it's, it's nudging him maybe in other directions

[00:24:15] and giving him very candid feedback.

[00:24:17] I do think though, working for a founder CEO

[00:24:22] but also a co-founder, CFO, right.

[00:24:26] I joke that they're the brothers

[00:24:28] because they've known each other since middle school

[00:24:31] and they lead by example, right?

[00:24:34] You talked about that sense of they don't do anything

[00:24:38] that they don't ask others to do.

[00:24:41] And so that sense of we talk a lot about culture ads.

[00:24:44] The values have been seven years and going strong.

[00:24:48] The values, the culture, it's not just something

[00:24:50] that is talked about one and done.

[00:24:53] It is literally embedded into every single thing

[00:24:56] that we do.

[00:24:57] Even our performance management, we do the what?

[00:25:00] So delivering on the objectives, but the how.

[00:25:02] We are four leader mindsets, business team, self and community.

[00:25:06] You have to meet a minimum threshold

[00:25:08] of both of those to be able to be successful.

[00:25:11] So again, it's not just talk.

[00:25:14] It is what do you do?

[00:25:15] I have a five and a half year old.

[00:25:17] It is all about kids learn what they live.

[00:25:20] I think people within organizations,

[00:25:23] you have to culture is about what we live day in and day out.

[00:25:27] It's those micro moments.

[00:25:29] It's the stories that are so important

[00:25:32] that I think actually really cultivate an incredible culture.

[00:25:35] So we recently saw, it's like a story

[00:25:38] that continues the surface where Clarna got rid

[00:25:42] of 700 customer service individuals,

[00:25:45] and they replaced it with AI.

[00:25:47] Seems to be in some cases we're looking toward the future.

[00:25:51] How does that actually impact culture?

[00:25:56] DEI, the entire, I mean, this is something

[00:25:59] that we've got to think about holistically

[00:26:01] when we start using these different technology.

[00:26:04] So whoever wants to go first, chew on that one.

[00:26:07] Is it hard to recruit when everyone thinks

[00:26:10] you're going to lay everybody off in the near future?

[00:26:12] That was like 10 questions and one.

[00:26:15] I'm good at those.

[00:26:16] OK, to the Clarna thing.

[00:26:17] I do, I don't think you were asking the question,

[00:26:19] but I do agree that as I mentioned,

[00:26:22] I lead customer care too.

[00:26:23] We'll take away customer care jobs

[00:26:24] in our particular situation.

[00:26:26] We work with a BPO.

[00:26:27] So we work with a huge team in Mexico

[00:26:29] that aren't our employees.

[00:26:30] So they probably will be the most impacted.

[00:26:32] And I think in some ways it actually

[00:26:34] enhances culture for us.

[00:26:35] I hate to say it because our customer care agents

[00:26:38] will focus on very high level tickets.

[00:26:41] So we'll implement it just for the basic, hey,

[00:26:42] my box wasn't delivered or hey, there's this damage product.

[00:26:46] Pretty basic stuff to answer, get customer credits,

[00:26:49] respond kindly.

[00:26:50] But much more difficult things if I got something I allergic to

[00:26:53] or I had a food safety issue.

[00:26:55] So they'll just be spending time on higher level human

[00:26:58] judgment.

[00:27:00] Maybe someone else can go and all think about the other questions

[00:27:03] that were thrown at me.

[00:27:05] Well, I'll take on actually the layout.

[00:27:07] So we've had a lot of internal debate,

[00:27:10] especially with during challenging times.

[00:27:13] Do we do something big and cut deeper to then reinvest

[00:27:18] in the areas of growth?

[00:27:20] And we have made a conscious decision not to.

[00:27:23] Now there's always going to be org changes

[00:27:25] and some micro movements.

[00:27:27] However, in general, we have actually

[00:27:30] decided not to as an organization, even though the trend is

[00:27:34] there.

[00:27:34] And I think you see a lot of companies doing that

[00:27:37] because the safety, the psychological wellbeing,

[00:27:40] we think it's really important in that fear-based culture.

[00:27:43] I ultimately don't think while you might get an improvement

[00:27:47] in short term results, I don't think

[00:27:49] it's actually good for a healthy long-term culture.

[00:27:51] Yeah, productivity goes down dramatically

[00:27:53] not to mention retention, right?

[00:27:55] Because they're automatically looking for the next gig

[00:27:57] because they think they're not going

[00:27:58] to have theirs for long.

[00:27:59] What do you think?

[00:28:00] And it impacts the team that are still there as well, right?

[00:28:03] Nobody feels good.

[00:28:06] So I think again, the tail of it, again,

[00:28:08] you can focus on the short term results,

[00:28:10] but it's a long tail really thing carefully.

[00:28:13] Sorry, Joey.

[00:28:14] Yeah, we don't do a lay-offs.

[00:28:15] So I don't foresee Panda doing any type of lay-offs.

[00:28:18] I think one of the biggest challenges

[00:28:20] is that once we, they move people

[00:28:22] throughout the different organizations, right?

[00:28:24] But they're not skilled.

[00:28:26] They may have certain competencies, certain abilities

[00:28:29] to do certain things.

[00:28:30] For example, you take a general manager,

[00:28:32] you move them into recruiting.

[00:28:34] They've never recruited before.

[00:28:35] They've done interviews.

[00:28:37] So how do we up level them?

[00:28:39] How do we get them, provide them tools and resources

[00:28:42] to get to where they need to truly go?

[00:28:45] And that's the challenge, right?

[00:28:46] And that's why I feel like AI is going to truly help

[00:28:48] because when you think about it, we ask recruiter

[00:28:51] how much percentage their time do they spend on the admin side?

[00:28:55] They would say 60%, 70%.

[00:28:56] So you take some of those AI components, give them at least

[00:29:00] 70% their time to spend time with customers,

[00:29:03] spend time with hiring managers,

[00:29:05] spend time to consult.

[00:29:06] That's where we truly need to get them to.

[00:29:08] OK, I have a couple of thoughts.

[00:29:08] Well, on the layoffs, I mean, I think

[00:29:10] we're all people leaders or in the people's face.

[00:29:12] I mean, it's really important to be very thoughtful around

[00:29:14] impact on DEIB.

[00:29:15] So we did a small restructure in January

[00:29:17] not for cost reasons.

[00:29:19] And we transparently got a lot of heat from the company

[00:29:21] of wow, a lot of women were impacted.

[00:29:23] But we had to be very, very transparent

[00:29:24] around like the analysis we did and we're

[00:29:26] a majority female company.

[00:29:28] And so as a result, they're more females than males impacted.

[00:29:33] I was going to say something else about culture,

[00:29:34] but I just lost my train.

[00:29:35] I thought, oh, I think what you said about jobs,

[00:29:37] I would guarantee if you asked anyone at Hungary,

[00:29:39] they would not be fearing their job going away.

[00:29:41] And the reason is because we believe in very lean scrappy

[00:29:43] teams.

[00:29:44] So as I mentioned, we're about 400 million

[00:29:45] in revenue just to give some context.

[00:29:47] The people team is five people.

[00:29:49] And so you want the right balance of not so resource constrained

[00:29:54] that you can't do your best work.

[00:29:56] But you also want to be able to prioritize

[00:29:59] the most important things and everyone

[00:30:01] is tied to the impact they can have.

[00:30:04] So actually post a small restructure we did.

[00:30:06] We've seen engagement survey scores go up.

[00:30:10] People are just happier because they're actually

[00:30:11] more connected to the results.

[00:30:13] And they're not worried about their job.

[00:30:15] All right, Joe, I'm not going to let you off this easily.

[00:30:17] You can't just say we don't do layoffs without some pushback.

[00:30:21] And you did.

[00:30:22] He did.

[00:30:23] And your industry more than most is it,

[00:30:26] I wouldn't say risk, but more impacted

[00:30:28] by AI and automation than most.

[00:30:31] You see robots flipping burgers.

[00:30:34] You see robots cooking food.

[00:30:37] You see drive-thrues that are AI voice servers.

[00:30:40] You see, my local McDonald's, it's a kiosk.

[00:30:43] I haven't talked to a cashier for I don't know how long.

[00:30:48] So he knows fast too.

[00:30:50] So help me understand in that environment

[00:30:54] where all your competition is automating that you guys won't.

[00:30:59] What's your secret sauce that you don't have to?

[00:31:01] No, we actually started some automation.

[00:31:03] So being in QSR is the turnover there's about 70%.

[00:31:08] That 70% is labor-intensive, very hands on.

[00:31:12] So we have robotics in terms of chopping vegetables.

[00:31:15] Flipping the wok.

[00:31:16] The wok is heavy.

[00:31:17] You do it eight, 10 hours a day.

[00:31:19] It's super challenging.

[00:31:21] We're going to double down on the customer service aspect,

[00:31:24] providing the customer service aspect.

[00:31:27] We're applying to open 90 stores.

[00:31:29] Next year we're opening 180 stores.

[00:31:32] How many?

[00:31:33] 180 stores.

[00:31:34] Wow.

[00:31:35] Which will employ how many people?

[00:31:38] A lot.

[00:31:39] Good for you.

[00:31:40] Good for you.

[00:31:41] So let's go ahead and pivot into innovation.

[00:31:45] Three people on stage who get pitched a lot by vendors.

[00:31:51] Many vendors in this room.

[00:31:53] But I'm going to call as a week.

[00:31:54] I'm just curious.

[00:31:56] How many calls a week do you get from a vendor, Caroline?

[00:31:59] Probably between 50 to 75.

[00:32:01] 50 to 70.

[00:32:03] Yeah, calls, emails.

[00:32:04] 50 to 100.

[00:32:05] Oh, emails for sure.

[00:32:06] It'd be a lot more.

[00:32:07] In the same range.

[00:32:08] Wow.

[00:32:09] So if vendors are listing, that's what you're competing with.

[00:32:12] 100 calls a week from your competition.

[00:32:15] So go ahead, innovation.

[00:32:16] Let's go high level.

[00:32:18] Indeed in LinkedIn pretty much own the market.

[00:32:21] For the most part, they get a lot of cash out

[00:32:25] of all the vendors that are out there.

[00:32:27] They don't seem to be innovating much.

[00:32:29] They rename stuff.

[00:32:31] They put a different label, different lipstick on the pig,

[00:32:33] and then they charge you more.

[00:32:35] What would you like to see out of vendors, whether it's them

[00:32:39] or even beyond those 75 plus that you get per week?

[00:32:43] That actually means something to you.

[00:32:46] OK.

[00:32:47] I don't know why I'm going for it.

[00:32:47] This is not a pain point for us.

[00:32:49] The only thing in the recruiting,

[00:32:50] I think Azure was specifically talking about the recruiting

[00:32:52] space.

[00:32:52] So probably in my more of my fills experience

[00:32:55] and kind of like high turnover environments,

[00:32:57] we push the envelope on innovation.

[00:33:00] So I don't actually know that I have an answer,

[00:33:01] but I'd like to see more experience-based.

[00:33:03] I mean, you're right.

[00:33:04] They haven't pushed the envelope at all.

[00:33:05] I think candidates are still using the same approaches.

[00:33:08] But probably more, I don't know.

[00:33:10] Something creative experience-based interviewing.

[00:33:12] So question.

[00:33:14] Do you use your database?

[00:33:17] You're candidate database of candidates

[00:33:18] you've already paid for that have already

[00:33:20] possibly gone through interviews and those types of things.

[00:33:23] Do you use those as the first source

[00:33:25] of candidates to go through?

[00:33:27] Or do you just automatically post a job going to programmatic?

[00:33:30] What do you do first?

[00:33:31] OK.

[00:33:32] We post the job.

[00:33:33] OK.

[00:33:33] And then we filter applications through greenhouse.

[00:33:36] So you don't go back to your-

[00:33:37] But we do a lot of sino referrals are a big source of higher

[00:33:40] for us, about 50% of our hires are referrals.

[00:33:42] So we prioritize those.

[00:33:44] And we do do sourcing for our kind of harder

[00:33:47] to fill like more technical data engineer roles

[00:33:50] or kind of dev roles.

[00:33:52] Yeah.

[00:33:53] One of the things we've done, so this

[00:33:55] past year we've spent a lot of time looking at our end-to-end

[00:33:57] tech stack.

[00:33:58] And also then where the incumbents are,

[00:34:02] what our renewal dates are for each of those platforms,

[00:34:05] where the kind of the upstarts are,

[00:34:08] many of those in this room.

[00:34:10] And then we start having those conversations around where

[00:34:13] and how do we want to innovate?

[00:34:14] Where are the companies where we want to make the bet?

[00:34:17] But also there's a cost to change.

[00:34:20] And I would also say there's a fatigue

[00:34:22] of employees to having yet another system, yet another app.

[00:34:26] Where do I go to for this?

[00:34:27] Where do I go to for that?

[00:34:29] So I think the more companies that can integrate

[00:34:32] and have it be simple and make sure

[00:34:35] that it's talking and connecting with other vendors

[00:34:40] and or other platforms.

[00:34:41] That is also, it's the push and the pull

[00:34:44] of always wanting innovation.

[00:34:46] But innovation within companies where we're already using

[00:34:49] are automatically going to have a lot of-

[00:34:51] Do you even consider a solution that isn't integrated

[00:34:54] into your primary platforms?

[00:34:57] Very few.

[00:34:57] Yes, if it is a spot solution that there's

[00:35:02] no other opportunity.

[00:35:04] But in general, I would say a number of the vendors

[00:35:08] where there's ongoing innovation within the platform.

[00:35:13] And then you'll see in what we're seeing a lot now

[00:35:15] is every vendor is trying to go broader.

[00:35:18] And so every, you know, it's not only the new companies

[00:35:21] but it's the vendors pitching on, oh, but we can do this today

[00:35:23] but we're going to go, you know, and do X tomorrow

[00:35:26] and understanding how all these pieces fit together

[00:35:29] is one of I think are as an industry

[00:35:32] and as people in communities.

[00:35:34] The big, one of the biggest opportunities

[00:35:36] we have going forward.

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[00:36:29] Do you feel in some cases that's like vaporware?

[00:36:32] Oh, we're going to do that.

[00:36:33] Are we gonna do that?

[00:36:34] Oh yeah, and assessing what is vaporware

[00:36:37] and what is actually like, oh no, that's coming.

[00:36:39] I promise you, that's coming.

[00:36:40] So the road map.

[00:36:41] Is it on the road map?

[00:36:42] Can we actually deliver on it?

[00:36:45] Can we count on you to deliver on this?

[00:36:48] It's a tricky one, which also comes down

[00:36:50] to a lot of really digging into, do you have the relationships?

[00:36:54] Do you know that you've product officer?

[00:36:55] Are you actually really understanding

[00:36:58] what the technology is and what it could be?

[00:37:00] Sales people have a tendency of over promising.

[00:37:03] I don't know if you guys have heard that.

[00:37:04] I mean sales people?

[00:37:05] Sales people not so much.

[00:37:07] If you can talk to product people generally

[00:37:09] you can get their white answer.

[00:37:10] And they can sales people for over promise.

[00:37:12] What do you think about that?

[00:37:13] Yeah, so we're building our tech stack right now.

[00:37:16] I love Jennifer's point in terms of,

[00:37:18] it has to integrate.

[00:37:21] I think the two job boards out there

[00:37:23] is indeed linked in.

[00:37:24] And if you use linked in the last three, four months,

[00:37:27] it's changed, indeed same thing.

[00:37:29] And or if we get your jobs out there

[00:37:30] you have to sponsor them.

[00:37:31] If not, it's gonna be buried.

[00:37:34] So I would love to see another vendor compete with them

[00:37:38] come out of the woodworks and go back

[00:37:41] to how indeed linked and started.

[00:37:43] I mean where they were just homegrown.

[00:37:47] I think there's tons of vendors here

[00:37:48] we're coming out reach.

[00:37:49] I want to call it remote bridge,

[00:37:50] which is one company I saw when I comment

[00:37:51] on experience-based interviewing

[00:37:54] and pushing the envelope.

[00:37:55] And again I mentioned it's not a huge problem for HungryRoot

[00:37:57] but if I was back and kind of a high turnover

[00:37:59] like harder to fill, we'll check them out.

[00:38:01] But it's very cool you enter Avatarland

[00:38:04] and imagine you can go and create a hiring fair

[00:38:07] for your frontline employees

[00:38:09] or for engineers who are really bought in

[00:38:13] might be like a new and different way

[00:38:15] like way to interact with an interview.

[00:38:18] So that's kind of what I was talking about earlier

[00:38:19] with experience-based wanting LinkedIn

[00:38:21] and the technology to really push the envelope.

[00:38:23] It's scary to try something new like that

[00:38:25] but I think those breakthroughs are how we'll be able

[00:38:27] to address the broader talent shortage.

[00:38:29] So, talent acquisition wasn't really an issue.

[00:38:32] What about the talent management

[00:38:33] and that whole funnel to be able

[00:38:35] to focus on productivity and then also retention?

[00:38:39] So are you seeing, are you seeing advancements

[00:38:42] and innovation in that?

[00:38:44] Yes, for sure.

[00:38:45] Yes, I would say that area feels much more innovative

[00:38:48] because like performance is, yes, I will say

[00:38:50] there is innovation.

[00:38:52] Move to like simplicity to real time kind of ongoing feedback.

[00:38:56] Yes, sorry, my brain is not working.

[00:38:58] You're getting, it's the beer.

[00:38:59] We'll blame the beer, it's fine.

[00:39:00] It's fine.

[00:39:02] Remote work.

[00:39:04] My five.

[00:39:05] What a,

[00:39:06] I don't know, I mean Joey's answer might be interesting

[00:39:08] but I'm sure like corporate work,

[00:39:10] corporate work, solutions to help you manage

[00:39:13] a global workforce.

[00:39:15] I think a lot of companies are struggling with

[00:39:17] do we go hybrid remote?

[00:39:18] Are you back in the office?

[00:39:19] How do you guys approach that question internally?

[00:39:22] And how does it impact recruiting?

[00:39:24] Start with Joey, let's start with Joey

[00:39:26] because I want to hear this, you've got corporate jobs

[00:39:28] and then obviously you've got jobs

[00:39:29] where they can't be remote.

[00:39:30] Yeah, so, work required to come into office twice a week

[00:39:34] which is good.

[00:39:36] My first week there is funny.

[00:39:38] I was in the office.

[00:39:39] I was in back to back virtual calls.

[00:39:42] So, I was like,

[00:39:44] I did not leave the office one bit

[00:39:46] so I went back to my leadership team.

[00:39:47] I was like, I'm gonna move all my meetings

[00:39:49] on the days I would currently work home.

[00:39:51] So, I believe in that in person

[00:39:53] but if you're bogged down doing virtual meetings all day

[00:39:56] it's pointless.

[00:39:57] There's no reason for that.

[00:39:59] There should be a mixture.

[00:40:00] I believe that I like the people, people,

[00:40:02] the business interaction face-to-face

[00:40:05] with different executives.

[00:40:06] I enjoy that,

[00:40:07] the brainstorming element, the team building

[00:40:10] but I do like the flexibility of their work from home.

[00:40:13] I mean, if I gotta take my daughter

[00:40:15] and pick up my kids from school

[00:40:16] that's the beauty of it

[00:40:17] and you know, you just work your hours.

[00:40:19] Now is that a department by department scenario

[00:40:22] or do you have like a corporate?

[00:40:23] It's for the whole company.

[00:40:24] Okay, the entire company okay.

[00:40:26] But you guys, Jess.

[00:40:28] Yes so we have kind of all types.

[00:40:33] So, we have some you know, roles that are in office roles.

[00:40:37] We have some roles, you know, a lot of sales,

[00:40:39] some of the customer roles that are remote by role

[00:40:43] and then we have a lot of people

[00:40:45] who are either remote by choice.

[00:40:47] The vast majority about 60% of our boxers, our employees

[00:40:51] are kind of a mix of where they come into the office

[00:40:55] and we want that because again, I'm a big believer

[00:40:58] of there is something different about

[00:41:00] when you can be in the office

[00:41:01] when you can have that face-to-face in-person connection.

[00:41:05] What we're grappling with and still kind of working through

[00:41:08] is what does that exactly look like?

[00:41:10] How do you to Joyce Point?

[00:41:11] You know, we don't want to say,

[00:41:12] hey, come into the office

[00:41:13] and then sit on Zoom calls the entire time.

[00:41:16] That is not, you know, in anybody's best interest.

[00:41:19] So what we've been really trying to think about

[00:41:21] so Tuesdays and Thursdays are today

[00:41:23] are what we call our IRL days.

[00:41:25] But we try and then really say during those days

[00:41:28] don't have your Zoom calls.

[00:41:29] You know, if you're gonna have a one-on-one

[00:41:31] make sure it's a one-on-one with somebody

[00:41:33] who's there clear some area of calendar

[00:41:35] to have time to go and have the conversations

[00:41:38] in the coffee bar and a lunchroom, what not.

[00:41:41] So I think we have to be more intentional.

[00:41:44] I think it is actually harder in some ways

[00:41:46] to have kind of this messy middle

[00:41:48] but I actually think the flexibility

[00:41:51] this whole like work-life integration

[00:41:54] which I think is incredibly important

[00:41:56] is something that as we think about this next generation

[00:42:00] of workplaces, we also put a lot of care

[00:42:03] into our workplaces that they exemplify our culture

[00:42:07] that we really create that community,

[00:42:09] that sense of again, that belonging.

[00:42:11] So when you come into the office

[00:42:13] it actually is a place that you ideally want to be able to come.

[00:42:17] How big international do you guys work with any

[00:42:19] EOR companies employment?

[00:42:20] The employment of record platforms

[00:42:23] where you can go through them

[00:42:24] and they make it so much easier

[00:42:26] to actually hire remote people or even people on site.

[00:42:29] Do you use any of those types of organizations at all?

[00:42:32] We have tried one with mixed success.

[00:42:36] Okay.

[00:42:37] And so we are not going to at this point,

[00:42:39] continue down that path because again,

[00:42:41] I think it sounds really good in theory.

[00:42:43] Yeah.

[00:42:44] Haven't quite worked out the wrinkles in my opinion.

[00:42:46] So was that, what was not successful about that?

[00:42:50] Did you have problems retaining,

[00:42:52] getting people in the door?

[00:42:53] What was the...

[00:42:54] And feel free to name names.

[00:42:56] I like being provocative.

[00:42:58] I like also being respectful.

[00:43:01] So I think what did not work.

[00:43:04] So our use case actually was during some M&A work

[00:43:07] that we did where we had employees

[00:43:10] that were part of an acquisition in countries

[00:43:12] where we were not legally set up to employ them.

[00:43:15] And so we used a vendor and again,

[00:43:18] it was just the promises that were made

[00:43:20] and then what were delivered on in terms of the complexity

[00:43:24] and in terms of, you know, they made some serious mistakes

[00:43:28] along the way.

[00:43:29] And so again, we kind of had to deal with them

[00:43:31] cleaning up their mess,

[00:43:33] even though what they told us they could deliver

[00:43:35] and what they delivered, there was a pretty big gap.

[00:43:38] So it's not a panacea.

[00:43:40] Okay.

[00:43:41] This conversation makes me want to poke my eyeballs out.

[00:43:43] We were talking at a group of CPOs last night

[00:43:46] about remote hybrid.

[00:43:47] So I think hunger is here to prove,

[00:43:50] first of all, I don't care where people work.

[00:43:51] So we're totally remote first.

[00:43:54] I do care about sort of meaningful interactions

[00:43:56] and meaningful connections

[00:43:57] and I think the coolest part about our company is,

[00:43:59] while everyone else is just like, you know,

[00:44:01] messing around with like, are we in the office

[00:44:02] or we're not in the office?

[00:44:03] What are the mandates all this stuff?

[00:44:04] You know, we've just been crushing it culturally

[00:44:06] and also business results.

[00:44:07] So I think we're a good use case to prove

[00:44:09] that like you can do it.

[00:44:11] The other comment I'd make is sort of why

[00:44:12] it's a personal sort of like issue for me

[00:44:16] is like we've lost so many women caregivers

[00:44:19] in the workforce.

[00:44:20] And you know, I'm a mom of two kids

[00:44:23] in an executive position and like I'm able to do it all

[00:44:25] because I work from home.

[00:44:27] Work from home is not necessarily my happy place.

[00:44:29] It's not like I need to be at, you know, moments like this

[00:44:31] or go to New York or you know,

[00:44:32] be with the team or with my CPO community.

[00:44:34] But I just think the data supports that like,

[00:44:37] this is having a tough impact on females

[00:44:38] in the workforce so on a personal level it stinks.

[00:44:41] But we from a competitive advantage are just going for it.

[00:44:44] So in our employer brand,

[00:44:45] we're like we're remote first

[00:44:46] and we're attracting amazing talent

[00:44:48] because of it because it's actually so unique.

[00:44:50] So we like that every other company is back to the office

[00:44:53] or many are.

[00:44:54] Well, I think we're out of time and the bar is open.

[00:44:56] Real quickly give the audience a URL or LinkedIn handle

[00:45:00] to where they can all connect with you

[00:45:02] starting with Carolyn.

[00:45:03] Like personally connects with me?

[00:45:05] It's up to you.

[00:45:06] Or not.

[00:45:07] You want to put yourself out there?

[00:45:09] That's hungryRoo.com.

[00:45:12] Jess.

[00:45:13] LinkedIn, I'm not social media.

[00:45:15] So LinkedIn is the only way to catch me.

[00:45:18] Joey.

[00:45:19] Same way, LinkedIn.

[00:45:20] You can find me on LinkedIn.

[00:45:21] Let's hear it for the panel everybody.

[00:45:23] Give it up.

[00:45:24] Cheers everybody Chad.

[00:45:28] That is another one in the can.

[00:45:30] We out.

[00:45:32] Wow.

[00:45:32] Look at you.

[00:45:34] You made it through an entire episode of The Chad and Chase podcast.

[00:45:37] Oh, maybe you cheated and fast-forwarded to the end.

[00:45:41] Either way, there's no doubt you wish

[00:45:43] you had that time back.

[00:45:45] The valuable time you could have used

[00:45:47] to buy a nutritious meal at Taco Bell.

[00:45:50] Enjoy a pour of your favorite whiskey

[00:45:53] or just watch Big Booty Latinas and Bug Fights on TikTok.

[00:45:59] No, you hung out with these two chuckleheads instead.

[00:46:03] Now go take a shower and wash off all the guilt

[00:46:07] but save some soap because you'll be back.

[00:46:11] Like an awful train wreck, you can't look away

[00:46:15] and like Chad's favorite Western,

[00:46:17] you can't quit the Mether.

[00:46:20] We out.

[00:46:22] How much do you understand the future of finance?

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