Talent Acquisition Excellence w/ Kevin Wheeler

[00:00:00] Everyone deserves their best job. That's what Fiji stands for. We make a big difference for independent recruiters with the strength of our fast-growing recruiter network. At Fiji, you can be your best self and work for the company you'd like whenever and wherever. We support you with the best digital and online recruitment marketing. We offer professional business development support, recruitment specialist training, and a bit of rebellious network meetings. Let's join strengths and help more professionals find the job they love. Celebrate recruitment and join Fiji at FYGI.nl.

[00:00:30] Hide your kids. Lock the doors. You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Soash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, rash opinion, and loads of snark. Buckle up, boys and girls. It's time for the Chad and Cheese Podcast.

[00:00:55] Oh yeah, it's your AI co-pilot's favorite podcast, AKA the Chad and Cheese Podcast. I'm your co-host, Joel Cheeseman, joined as always, the Terminator to my Robocop, Chad Soash is in the house. And we are super excited to welcome Kevin Wheeler, author, speaker, icon, founder of Global Learning Resources, and just all around nice guy to the show. Kevin, welcome.

[00:01:26] How you doing, Kevin? I'm good. A guy with no headphones, you know? You're good. You're good. You've got headphones on. You're fine. You're fine. You sound great, Kevin. Sound great. And might I say one of the best heads of hair for one of the veterans in the industry. I've always been an admirer of your hair. I still have hair. That is good. That is good. That is good.

[00:01:50] So, so beyond hair, I mentioned you're an icon. I met you 15 years ago. I know that you were, you were cracking before that. Like, give the listeners who don't know you a Twitter bio about Kevin. See, I've been in the recruiting space since the 80s. Started out as a corporate recruiter and corporate HR and spent 17 years in the corporate world and then went out on my own.

[00:02:16] Started Global Learning Resources and the Future of Talent Institute. And I run both of those organizations right now. We really focus on future trends in the HR space, but we really focus on recruitment and learning and development. Those are our two primary areas. And so we look at what are the trends? What's going to look like in a few more years? So we try to look out as far as we can. We don't have a crystal ball. We just kind of do trend analysis.

[00:02:45] We do, we do a lot of work with SRI, which was the old Stanford Research Institute. And we use techniques from them and the Institute for the Future, which is where I spent some time working there when I first started out on my own. And so we use a lot of techniques that they use to do future looking forecasting. You're in Australia a lot, aren't you? I am. I have a business in Australia as well. Oh. Have you been bitten by one of the many venomous animals in Australia?

[00:03:11] No, you know, that's really overrated. The venomous animals are there. They're there, but they don't like the cities, you know. So as long as you're not out in the country, you're pretty close. Joel's afraid to go. He knows he's going to be eaten by something. Anyway, Kevin, so tell the kids at home, I mean, you were a recruiter back in the column inches days, back in the days when resumes were actually on paper.

[00:03:35] So talk a little bit about, I mean, we're seeing huge advancements now, but talk about, you know, the difference between advancements back from column inches to online from today, online to AI. Not a whole lot has changed. I mean, you know, from the day I... Holy shit, really? If you were... If I had disappeared for the last 30 years and came back, it would probably take me two hours to get back into it again. All right.

[00:04:04] That's how liberal is changed. The major change is the computer, right? The internet. That's really it. Instead of paper, we just, we look at paper online now. That's all. So we haven't really, we haven't really changed anything except we went from a physical piece of paper to a digital piece of paper. We still do everything the same way. We still interview. We still source. We still, instead of cold calling, which we still do some, but now we search people on the internet.

[00:04:32] So, you know, I mean, it really, other than the computer, it's been very little difference. Recruiter productivity hasn't improved. You know, if you had a professional hires, you did 20, 20 recs, maybe 15, 20 recs today. Same thing. Nothing's changed. But scale has changed though, right? I mean, you would get like three applications for a job. Today, you get 300.

[00:04:53] So scale has changed dramatically. And that recruiter who actually owned that rec back in the day when they had three resumes, today they have 300. The workload has changed dramatically, right? Yeah. I mean, yeah, you'd certainly get more resumes today than you did back then. A lot more. You used to get, but you know, the difference is you can screen the ones today more quickly using the technology. If you use a technology, which most people do to some degree. You should, yeah.

[00:05:21] Back then I had to read, I had to open envelopes and read every one of them, you know? So, you had three, but it was sort of like 30 that are online. What's an envelope? What's an envelope? Oh, right. Yeah, right. Then you had to read the cover letter that was, you know, usually a piece of crap. And so, I mean. Still is. It still is. Bard and ChatGBT, they do a hell of a cover letter today. They do a really good job. Yes, they do. They do, yeah, yeah.

[00:05:49] And they make up really good resumes too. You know, yeah. Am I hearing bullish or bearishness on the recruiting profession, Kevin? As you talk to us about the past and the future. Well, I just, neither really. It's neutral. I think it hasn't done anything. It's pretty much the same as it always was. The only thing that's really happened is that we now use, to some degree, not all recruiters, but many do use computers and so forth.

[00:06:16] But there's small company recruiters who don't do it any differently than I did 30 years ago, you know. They still get paper resumes, you know. They still, it's amazing. But, you know, when you look at all the professions out there, finance, you know, anything, it's all changed dramatically. But HR and recruiting have not changed that much. Why write a book? If nothing has changed, you just wrote a book. He wrote it in 1987 and just added the internet to where it said newspapers.

[00:06:43] Because ChatGTP is a weapon of mass destruction. All right. Oh. Let's get to the title because it's a mouthful, Kevin. So it's coming out in February, late February. It's for, it's pre-sale at Amazon, Target, all your favorites. It's called Talent Acquisition Excellence, Using Digital Capabilities and Analytics to Improve Recruitment. Now, you co-authored this with our friend Boss in the Netherlands.

[00:07:09] So tell us about the origin, what message you're trying to give, what preparation for the future you're hoping to relay to the readers. Sure. You know, Boss and I have known each other for a long time. I do a lot of work in the Netherlands with different organizations. And, you know, we were just talking about the impact that AI already has had and is going to have much more over the next few years. And we decided it was time to put down some of our thoughts on paper. So that's kind of what we did.

[00:07:38] We took, we've been working on this book for over a year, year and a half or so. And a lot changed in the time we were writing the book, obviously. You know, lots of things have changed. But, you know, ChadGTP is a game changer for many things. It's probably as powerful for recruiting, maybe more powerful than the Internet was. And that it actually allows people to actually not do things that they used to have to do or think that they had to do.

[00:08:06] Help find people, screen people, assess people, even engage them in conversation. Things that recruiters historically believe they have to do or that nothing else can do it except them. And I think now we're finding that other things like AI can do a lot of what they do. And that's a game changer. So what is the book about? Is it literally just talking about doomsday destruction, dystopian? Hey, look, the robots are taking your stuff. So talk about it.

[00:08:36] What's the book talk about? All right. First of all, it talks about all the trends that are impacting talent in general. All right. Stuff like demographics, things like changing nature of work, what people are thinking about work. The pandemic was also a huge catalyst in this. All right. So there's several things that have sort of come together. The demographic, the declining populations all over the Western world, for sure. And in China and places like that.

[00:09:01] That's increasing the talent shortage and will exacerbate it big time over the next few years. You combine that with the impact of the pandemic, which really got people thinking differently about work. You know, maybe I can work from home now. Maybe I don't have to do it the way I used to do it. Everybody, corporations, CEOs, everybody's looking at work in a different way than they did before.

[00:09:24] And again, that's enabled to a large degree by the internet, but it's also enabled by the generative AI, the tools that exist now. And much more capability with virtual reality and other things that are about to hit the marketplace and change a lot. I mean, I think in two or three years from now, we would feel like we're sitting in the same room together because we'll have the virtual capabilities to make that reality. Okay.

[00:09:51] So that's going to change a lot of things about work, about should we go back to the office? Well, the office may be brought to you via virtual tools. So these things are all changing everything about talent, about work. Companies, organizations, governments are all faced with new challenges like the gig workforce, which is huge now. Now, it's probably 20% of the workforce or more and growing is people that are independent and want to stay independent.

[00:10:18] And governments are doing their best to coerce people back to full-time work. And the reason for that partly is taxes. You know, freelancers only pay taxes occasionally, where when you work for the man, you pay them every week. So the government has a predictable source of income coming from payroll deduction taxes. Freelancers, they don't have that. They can't predict how much they're going to get and when they're going to get it.

[00:10:43] So there's a lot of subtle things nobody talks about, nobody thinks about that have an impact on, you know, why people are pushing people back to work, why we want full-time workers and not gig workers. You know, cities are suffering tax-wise by not having full buildings. Professor at Berkeley says for every job that we create in a company, you create five ancillary jobs. People like the restaurant owner, the waitress, the dry cleaner.

[00:11:11] So every time you lay somebody off, you've in fact laid off five people. So these are huge impacts on employment and on the tax base in cities. So there's all kinds of things that are in flux right now that are changing. Kevin, we hear like this will be a net loss of jobs, but we're going to gain more jobs because of AI. Like where are you on? Will we gain more jobs because of this technology like we have in the past or is this time different? Well, I guess it depends on how you define a job.

[00:11:37] And if you define a job as, you know, working for a corporation from eight to five, we're going to lose those jobs. But we're going to gain a lot more jobs independent, working independently, working on their own schedules and using their own skill sets the way they want to. So it's going to be really hard to say, are we going to gain or lose jobs or employment? I think in the end, most people will still find something to do to earn money. It's just going to be different than the way we're used to doing it in the past.

[00:12:06] And it's not going to be a revolution. It's going to be an evolution. It's already happened. It's big time when you've got 20 percent of the workforce already as a gig worker. And you look at Gen Z and Gen Alpha, which is the generation after Gen Z, they're already copping out. They're saying, I don't want to do this. You know, I don't want to I don't want to work for companies. I'm going to figure out ways to be entrepreneurial. Which is evolution like you're talking about.

[00:12:31] I mean, the movement to remote work instead of Henry Ford, nine to five, you know, 40 hours a week. It's all about productivity and being able to hit those sales goals, those product goals, whatever they are. Right. It could take somebody 20 hours a week to do what somebody else does in 40. It almost feels like CEOs are trying to stop this evolution. Can it be stopped? Number one.

[00:12:56] And number two, I mean, if you are getting paid gig wise, as long as it's not under the table, you're still going to pay those taxes. It's just going to be at the back end and they're going to be a big ass chunk. Right. Right. So what's bad about the evolution and can CEOs and government stop this evolution? Can you stop it? No, there's no you can't stop revolutions. They don't get stopped. You can slow them down. You can get in the way of them, but you can't stop them.

[00:13:21] So I think it's really a matter of, you know, the CEOs are pushing people to come back for a couple of reasons. One is political pressure that may be subtly applied through city governments and state governments on to them calling up and saying, look, guys, this is impacting our revenues, our taxes and so forth and so on. But it's also that they're my age. You know, they grew up in the time when everybody worked eight to five. And that's all they know. That's what they're used to. They punch the clock.

[00:13:51] They punch the clock. Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, for them, that's work. That's how you define work. Right. And they can't even imagine how you can sit at home and do what you guys are doing and make money. Right. They can't understand that. All right. So. We still can understand it, Kevin. Who do you hope reads the book? Is it executives? Is it recruiters? Is it, you know, the kids out there looking for career options? I don't think it's going to be the kids out there.

[00:14:20] I think hopefully it will be recruiters. Hopefully it will be HR people. And hopefully we'll get a few CEOs to read the book. That would be great. Dude. Dude. It turns out that Winston, smart recruiter's first AI hiring sidekick, is taking all the grunt work out of recruiter's day. Things like candidate screening, scheduling, all the admin garbage no one actually wants to touch. Winston can do it all.

[00:14:45] Man, you know I'm a fan of using new tech that takes the boring, repetitive crap out of a recruiter's day and allows them to have more time to connect with hiring managers and candidates. Yep. Winston is doing the heavy lifting while recruiters kick back and do the actual hiring stuff. You know, like talking to people. I really dig that smart recruiters is evolving out of the legacy ATS model and embracing cleaner processes using AI.

[00:15:14] With most ATS providers, it's like, hey, 2003 called and it wants its 30 minute application process back. No doubt. It sounds like Rebecca and the team are using Winston to push smart recruiters into the future while the ATS vendors are basically on an AOL dial-up modem with a dashboard. With smart recruiters, Winston does the grind and the recruiters get the glory.

[00:15:40] For more information on superhuman hiring with Winston, visit smartrecruiters.com. That's smartrecruiters.com. Start using Winston today or I guess you can stick with... Now we return you to our regular scheduled program in progress. Yeah, you better get on TikTok, Kevin, if you want the kids to notice. Yeah, I know. That Kevin Wheeler TikTok channel coming soon. Yeah, I'm on TikTok, but I still can't figure out how to use it. So it's...

[00:16:10] Yeah. You wrote a post recently, kind of pivoting away from the book, about predictions for 2024. 2024. Any of your lists that you want to highlight that you're really, really positive or optimistic about? Well, I mean, obviously the first prediction was that the generative AI would become a dominant player in recruitment and it definitely will. I mean, I think you're going to find that recruiters are going to have to... They're going to be a lot fewer recruiters.

[00:16:37] We've seen massive layoffs of recruiters in the last year. They're going to... That's not going to change. They're not going to get hired back. There's no reason to hire them back. So I want to dig into that real quick. So a lot of recruiters listening to this are going, holy shit, my job is gone or I'm at risk of losing my job and I'm not coming back. That tells me that... That just really concerns me. What do you tell them in terms of what they should do? Get a new line of work? Learn new skills? Yeah.

[00:17:05] What advice would you give them after saying the jobs aren't coming back for recruiters? I mean, I'll put it this way. If you're a seasoned recruiter who's been doing this for a few years, you're probably going to have... You're going to be able to get a job and keep a job for a while, but you're going to need new skills to do that. You're going to need to get in touch with... In tune with AI and with the technology that's out there.

[00:17:27] And you're going to have to let go of some of those things that you have cherished, such as only I can screen people and only I can interview people and so forth. Right? We're going to have to let those things go away. Right? If you're a new... If you've just been in recruiting for a year or two and got laid off, go find a new job. Because I don't think you're going to find a long-term future in recruiting. Okay? You know, the thing is recruiters are going to have to reinvent their profession.

[00:17:57] And that's really what it's all about. And by reinventing it, I mean let ChatGP and generative AI do what it can do best and then figure out what it can't do and do that. And that's really going to be the more judgment stuff, the marketing stuff, the relationship building, the influencing kind of things. All right?

[00:18:19] So, you know, if I can find, for most jobs, ChatGP or the generative AI tools, we'll be able to find the people you're looking for, for the routine jobs, for sure. They're out there. So it can find them. It can assess their skills in a very objective way. If you're a coder, if you're a writer, it can look at writing samples or code samples and assess them against the job recs, job requirements. And it can present that candidate to a hiring manager.

[00:18:46] I envision the day when a hiring manager can go to their terminal and type in that I'm looking for X and a few minutes later it appears in their screen. All pre-screened and sorted by generative AI. I think that's reality. That's going to happen. Now, it may not happen for every job. It's not going to happen for maybe the senior level executive kind of jobs and so forth. But for most jobs it's going to be a routine kind of thing. Okay? So you don't even need a recruiter at all in that.

[00:19:15] So, Kevin, the interesting thing is that let's say for these large language models and some of these algorithms, they've been around forever. And to be able to do what you just said, go into my database and match it up against a requisition, we've been able to do that for 10 years. What has been the moment that actually made everybody say, oh, shit, we need to start adopting this? Because now everybody's talking about large language models. Well, we had them before.

[00:19:44] We had the data before. And some of these companies have been around for years. So why now? Well, I'll just push back a little bit. I'll say we didn't have large language models. We had algorithms. All right? And they're different. All right? And we had algorithms that were, you know, recipes basically. If you see this, do this. All right? We could look at a rec, match it up against a candidate's specifically listed skill set. All right? But we couldn't intuit. We couldn't intuit skills.

[00:20:14] We couldn't use the capabilities that now exist in large language models to look at those skills and say, well, if this person can do this, then probably they can do this. All right? We couldn't do that before. It was just a one-for-one matching process and algorithms. All right? So now we've got the ability to use more, I guess you'd call fuzzy matching tools or ability. So I can look at you guys and say, oh, you guys do podcasts. Well, you're probably pretty good speakers. You're probably good doing a whole bunch of other things. Okay?

[00:20:42] So I could intuit that because I'm a human being and I can figure out, you know, probably you guys have other things you could do. And you'll probably be pretty good at it because of what you do now. An algorithm can't do that. The large language models can do that. And that's what's so powerful. And after a company has used these models for a while and they've learned, which is another capability that algorithms don't generally have, these are capable of learning.

[00:21:07] They can actually continuously improve as they get feedback and see the results of their recommendations. So if they recommend three people to you with certain qualifications and none of them ever get hired, they're going to change their process. They're going to change their algorithms to become more attuned to what you're actually looking for. So there's a lot of subtle differences in the large language models and the power that we now have in computing.

[00:21:33] You know, again, up until a few years ago, computing was very constricted by the amount of computing power you had. CPUs versus GPUs. GPUs and NVIDIA have kicked ass. Oh, kicked ass. Totally, totally changed the game. Okay. So, I mean, NVIDIA's hardware has been the winner for the last few years. I think over the next few, you're going to see software gaining more and more capabilities. So there's been real fundamental changes in what's going on.

[00:22:03] I have to talk to Alexa. Alexa, turn on the office. I'm so happy we got Kevin Wheeler to say kick ass on a podcast. If nothing else comes with this podcast, that was great. Listener, you're welcome. Yeah, you're welcome, internet. You're welcome, industry. So, Kevin, you know, Chad and I advise quite a few startups that sell this stuff, develop it.

[00:22:28] And one of the things that I hear, I'm sure Chad does as well, is that there tends to be a natural pushback on this technology. Because you're potentially taking my job if we buy your service. So you have all these sort of forces working against and for. The other part of that, in light of forces of change, you in California with minimum wage laws,

[00:22:53] which I have to think are pushing more and more companies to automate and use AI because I don't have to hire anybody or pay them anything because I can get the robots to do that. Curious about your opinion of the push and pull of technology. I assume it's just going to happen. But you have government involved. You have the industry involved. These companies want to go to the CEO. They don't want to talk to HR anymore because HR isn't going to buy this thing because it might mean their job. Talk about that.

[00:23:23] I mean, clearly, this pushback. Obviously, nobody, very few people welcome a tool that's going to take away their job. You know, the guys that used to dig ditches before the bulldozer didn't want the bulldozer to come, right? You've got, you know, the old story of John Henry, the pile driving guy who didn't want automated railroad development, right? So you've got these histories are not new. These have been going on. But the bottom line is stopping technology is not possible. It's not possible to stop it.

[00:23:52] So inevitably, it's going to take over more and more of these roles. And a smart person looks at ways to get better than the technology or develop skills the technology doesn't have, right? So, I mean, I think that clearly there's going to be a huge push toward automation, partly because of costs and partly because of productivity. I look at the UAW agreement recently, which is five years on parole before they're all gone, okay?

[00:24:21] So we're going to give you a lot of money for five years, way more than we've ever given any union contract before, because we're going to use that five years to automate everything in the plant. And in five years, we're not going to need you guys, okay? This is what's happening. I mean, this is the reality, all right? They know that when they look at Japan, which is, you know, the car manufacturing there is like 80% automated, and it's going to go even more, that we're going to – and General Motors is way behind.

[00:24:50] So you're going to see this acceleration in the use of automation for everything. And that's the same for the in-and-out worker, right? Like, enjoy the next five years of $20 per hour, because after that, the clock, you know, the clock strikes 12. That's exactly right. So, you know, if you're smart, you kind of look ahead and see that. And, you know, what are the occupations that are coming? Well, we don't know yet. There'll be new ones. There'll be a lot of things that people do.

[00:25:15] I mean, you know, 30, 100 years ago, people were telephone operators and elevator operators and everything else that are, you know, long gone in history. But those people all found other things to do. So I'm pretty sure that we will continue to generate work for people, but it may be work that's done part-time. It may be done freelance. It's not maybe going to be going to a factory or to an office building. So we're completely changing work. Where are you on UBI? In favor? Not so much? Universal basic income?

[00:25:45] Particularly in California. I mean, I think, again, that some sort of that is inevitable. Just to look at, if you're General Motors and I can now automate car manufacturing so I can lower my costs tremendously, which increases my profits tremendously because I'm not paying people to work. I'm not trying to pay these robots. So I'm going to generate excessive profits, which we have to, it's all about redistributing income, right? Yes. So what do we do? How do we redistribute that income? Always has been. Right? Always has been.

[00:26:14] You know what kills me? Watching enterprises trying to hire frontline workers like it's still 2010. 30-day hiring cycles in a same-day world? While everyone else is still selling glorified applicant tracking systems, Fountain's out here delivering the whole enchilada. Hire, manage, and retain frontline talent. They're taking people from application to fully onboarded with a start date in just 22 minutes flat.

[00:26:41] Hundreds of thousands of people hired and onboarded in a single peak season. Hundreds of thousands. Purpose built for speed, AI that actually works, and enterprise scale that actually scales. Plus, 93% of offers accepted when you respond in 24 hours. 93% acceptance. Want to see what happens when speed gets elevated?

[00:27:07] Visit Fountain.com to turn your 30-day nightmare into same-day success. Again, that's Fountain.com. A crummy commercial? Son of a bitch. So if we can tax those organizations at the same rate or roughly the same rate they would have paid wages, then we can redistribute that to people as universal basic income.

[00:27:35] Now, the experiments that have been done with UBI are very positive. It's about people don't just sit back and watch TV all day. They actually find other things to do, but they don't have to worry about paying for their lodging and their food. So I'm not saying we give people $100,000 a year, but you give people enough money that they don't worry about the basics in life. Right? And then they can go and do things that they're passionate about or they love or they like to do. Right?

[00:28:02] So I think UBI and the history of where it's worked well at many places it has is pretty positive. And, you know, Europe has a sort of UBI. I mean, they don't really call it that, but they have a pretty heavily subsidized safety net, they call it. Right? So nobody goes without housing or without medical care because the government covers that. And those countries aren't dying. You know, they're doing okay.

[00:28:28] And I think, you know, most other countries will follow that, will have to follow that because the automation wave is going to force that to happen. The actual taxing, I think, is going to be the key when we start taking a look at these jobs and obviously profitability. Well, what we've seen, and we don't have any guardrails on this, unfortunately, is during, you know, the pandemic, profit margins just exploded. Right. Right?

[00:28:56] Profit margins exploded. Then we want to blame inflation on people buying stuff when it's expanded profit margins. So, I mean, and then what happens? Then we have to play the whole economic game of now we have to raise interest rates to hit the low wage earners and the middle wage earners.

[00:29:17] I mean, there's got to be new mechanisms to be able to help everybody in the stack, not just the top, which unfortunately we've seen it's been fed by trickle, not non-trickle-down economics for over 40 years. Yeah, absolutely. Do you think this is going to do it though? Is this really going to push all of that out the window? All right. It's definitely going to help. It may not be.

[00:29:40] I think, you know, I think more, quite a few progressive economists and others are thinking about we have to overhaul the whole tax system, our whole way of generating government revenues. Yeah. Everything is based on the 20th century eight to five workday model. All right. That's what we built it on, right?

[00:29:59] In the golden age, back when the Rockefellers and the Carnegie Mellons and all built, you know, 500 room mansions that they used for one month a year was because we didn't have an income tax and we didn't redistribute income. Right. So the income tax that came in in the early 1900s was a huge, huge shift. Right. A massive shift in how we redistribute income. And that created the 20th century world that we're used to. Right. So we're in another massive change of how do we redistribute income again? Right.

[00:30:28] What's the mechanism for doing that? And we have, you know, it's probably not going to be the traditional income tax that we're used to. It's probably going to be a very different set of tools. I don't know what they are yet. I'm not an economist. But clearly, we need to rethink the whole system of how we distribute income. And technology is clearly going to play a major role in that. And the U.S. isn't in a bubble anymore. It's a global economy. Very much so. Working remotely.

[00:30:57] Any thoughts on how that shakes out, particularly with geopolitical risks that we're coming to a head with China and others? We've got so many facing us right at this moment. And who knows? We may be in a war in the Middle East and Europe before this year's out. It's looking not so good every day. We've got all kinds of issues there. China has serious economic problems right now. The only place that the World Economic Forum right now is predicting GDP growth is Asia.

[00:31:26] And Asia looks pretty solid right now, especially Southeast Asia, Singapore, Indonesia, those countries. They look pretty robust. GDP, maybe 4% growth this year, where the U.S. is predicted to be 1.2%, maybe, maybe less. You know, we've got real shifts in, you know, where the money is and where the power is. I don't want to end this on a bummer of like World War III. No, I don't either.

[00:31:52] So I'm going to ask about a post that you wrote or at least shared. It was entitled, The Future Workplace is on Campus. I found that interesting. Did you write that A? And if so, what do you mean? Yeah, I mean, I think the younger people, college grads, maybe, maybe, maybe not just college grads, are the ones that are changing the world. I mean, they always have been and they always will be.

[00:32:18] The change is coming from them when you look at how they're reacting to work, how they're facing employment decisions, right? It's completely different than the way you and I thought about things when we were their age, right? So they're not all, I mean, some of them are definitely applying at General Electric and Amazon for jobs, but a lot of them aren't. You know, a whole bunch aren't. A lot of them aren't even finishing uni. You know, they're dropping out.

[00:32:48] 60% of guys who start university don't finish within a five to six year period. Huge statistic. So we've got a lot of people just opting to do things in a very different way and go out on their own, explore their own world and develop their own careers and their own jobs. And they're going to invent a lot of new things. Thank God the millennials aren't making the young choices anymore. They're the old people like us. That is Kevin Wheeler, everybody.

[00:33:17] Kevin, for those who want to connect with you or you want to sell that book, where would they go to get that thing? Yeah. Go on Amazon. Look for Talent Acquisition Excellence. You'll find it there. You can look me up at thefutureoftalent.org website or globalearningresources.com. Happy to chat. Excellent. That's Kevin Wheeler, Chad. Another one is in the can. Let's not wait another six years before we bring Kevin onto the show again. We out.

[00:33:47] See ya. Thank you for listening to, what's it called? A podcast. The Chad. The Cheese. Brilliant. They talk about recruiting. They talk about technology. But most of all, they talk about nothing. Just a lot of shoutouts of people you don't even know. And yet, you're listening. It's incredible. And not one word about cheese. Not one. Cheddar. Blue. Nacho. Pepperjack. Swiss.

[00:34:15] So many cheeses and not one word. So weird. Anywho, be sure to subscribe today on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. That way, you won't miss an episode. And while you're at it, visit www.chadcheese.com. Just don't expect to find any recipes for grilled cheese. So weird. We out.

[00:34:46] We'd never admit it, but deep down, we all get at least some pleasure from bad things happening to somebody we don't like. History's full of stories about bitter enemies being mutually horrible. Usually nothing good comes of it. But sometimes, sometimes, you get soul singers James Brown and Joe Tex, or 17th century nun Sor Juana, and the entire Catholic Church duking it out and dramatically changing our world. On Beef with Bridget Todd, we tell the stories of those petty feuds behind some of the greatest

[00:35:16] art, innovation, and global events. Listen to Beef wherever you get your podcasts. अएछ़गप div Thank you.