StepStone's Rebrand: Fresh Look or Lipstick on a Pig?

[00:00:00] . Oh yeah baby. Welcome to another lactose free Chad and Leven does Europe. This week Joel is gorging himself with Singapore street food, good for him. So Leven joins me to talk about all things Europe. That's right AI is coming for your Belgian beer.

[00:00:52] Tex Colonel tells us why they sold to Bullhorn. Revolut goes people and StepStone gets out the lipstick. Let's do this. You've got questions. You've got answers. Business leadership, ownership and sales can be challenging. Tune into the Accelerate Your Business Growth podcast to learn from the world's experts.

[00:01:18] Join me, your host Diane Helbig as I chat with people who have expertise in various areas of business. You'll enjoy the lively conversations that are focused on providing you with the ideas, tips and suggestions you need to realize greater success.

[00:01:36] Get what you need for your business when you need it from the people who have the answers. Accelerate Your Business Growth is part of the Evergreen podcast network and is available on Apple, Spotify or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. Wow man. So go figure. Cheeseman's gone.

[00:01:56] Thank God because now we can talk soccer and he won't get he won't know he won't know what's going on. We call it European football because we're both Europeans right now. Right. So what do you think? What do you think about Belgium? I heard they lost.

[00:02:07] Yeah, they might not make it out of the group phase my friend and that is which is weird because just a few years ago they were like one of the favorites to make it to you know at least the semifinals. They haven't been playing very well.

[00:02:22] No, so I was told but I'm not planning on watching so I don't really care. But I'm sure many people might. Yeah, Germany is doing well. France and Bapé got his nose broken. I mean there's been he's playing tonight though from what we're hearing.

[00:02:42] He'll probably play with one of those those funky looking masks. So he'll look like you know he's from Phantom of the Opera or some shit like that. But yeah at the end of the day Portugal didn't look good so but they still

[00:02:53] won so it's it's it's only hopefully up for upward and onward for here for them. But the Netherlands you have friends in the Netherlands who they they they're looking pretty good. They're already planning the champion party I think. It's always like that with our Dutch colleagues.

[00:03:10] They're so enthusiastic and totally believing in their own football capabilities. They remind me of the Swedes because the Swedes believe that everything Swedish is the best right. And it's almost it's almost the same when you when you go to you know the Netherlands.

[00:03:25] It's like they're very confident that they have the answer and they know the best right. And in many cases unfortunately that's not the case. But also very chumba wumba. They get kicked out every time again. They never become world champion but every time again they got up and

[00:03:42] they're there again. They get up and they'll be back again. Yes yes. Okay well I tell you what let's go ahead and let's move this along with our favorite shout out. Let's go ahead and you you kick it off.

[00:03:55] Okay my shout out goes to LinkedIn's new career coaches. I'm not sure if you saw the article but according to an article in Wired from last week it looks like LinkedIn is finally going to capitalize on their relationship with OpenEye.

[00:04:10] So both LinkedIn and OpenEye were bought by Microsoft. So I thought they're like siblings. They should be using each other's software and now finally they're going to do it. So I'm going to quote in the article that says something like

[00:04:22] LinkedIn is introducing chats with Generative AI career experts based on real people. Other new AI tools within the platform will help people write resumes and cover letters and evaluate their qualifications for posted jobs. And I like the idea so they're actually going to make like

[00:04:39] virtual versions of those HR influencers and I've checked the names. I didn't know any of them. There was a Lisa. There was two others probably big in the US but not big in Belgium. I didn't know them, but it's a cool idea to go into to make

[00:04:55] virtual versions of real people in HR and they're going to use those people to help you with your career at school and the chatbots will allow premium subscribers to ask questions like how can I negotiate my salary and the

[00:05:10] chatbot is trained on the coursework of those real life coaches and they will answer anyway to make a long story short. I went to LinkedIn and I went to the chat to the job board part and I actually found something looking a bit like

[00:05:26] AI and I tested it and then it didn't work. But I'm sure it's just a momentarily not malfunctioning thing. So they'll be back up but at this point for me didn't work, but I do like the idea. I like the idea.

[00:05:41] I mean the biggest problem with LinkedIn is they have so much data and their system has been shit from a matching standpoint and just being able to get us literally the basic relevant information. So hopefully this new AI and these new large language

[00:05:58] models will be able to make more sense of the data that they have because I've said it a million times LinkedIn has more career data in contextual data about me than any other social platform that's out there today and yet they are the worst performing from a matching

[00:06:14] standpoint. They don't really provide relevance in your feed. They just provide things that your friends throw out there right? So which you know, I think that's okay that just an algorithm that you don't have to screw with versus one

[00:06:30] that you know you do so hopefully this is this is a step forward for them because man they've really sucked on the technical side for years. Yeah, and I don't even mind our algorithm for the newsfeeds but what I don't like is their job matching as we speak.

[00:06:45] So just just an example I had so easy should be so easy. I followed I get a job notification whenever there's a new job for a CMO in Belgium. I just like to know when some companies looking for new CMOs.

[00:06:56] It's my business and so I follow the keyword CMO and I now got a job for engineer designing CMOS chips CMOS chips. Okay, it's I get the point but we're 2024 keyword matching. They should be able to do better. CMO CMOS. That's like like in the 1990s.

[00:07:19] It totally is and now I think using open a eyes even a chat CPT matching should do better and should do much better because it's context sensitive. So I hope they get this right because that would actually make a big difference not only for the

[00:07:34] job seeker but also for us as the people who paid our bonuses and no shit right? Yeah. Well, we're going to go ahead and we're going to stick with AI with my shout out. My shout out is to a I beer researchers in Belgium. That's right.

[00:07:49] Belgium use AI to improve taste of beer. This is straight out of the Guardian quote whether you prefer a fruity lambic or a complex Trappist. Belgian beers have long been famed for their variety quality and heritage. No question Belgian beer kicks ass now researchers

[00:08:13] say they have harnessed the power of AI to make brews even better professor Ken Verstrepen of KU Leven University who led the research said AI could help tease apart the complex relationships involved in human aroma perception and quote Leven. Are you ready for some AI infused beer?

[00:08:39] No, I'd say don't touch my beer. I love AI love beer, but you don't have to mingle it up. It's by the way, it's pronounced KU Leuven Catholic University of Leuven which is the oldest university. I think one of the oldest even in the world. Oh really?

[00:08:53] The oldest beautiful beautiful city and good to know Leuven is the city where I be in bath, you know the biggest brewery in the world. I think so has its headquarters or they used to have their headquarters are not a proxy probably

[00:09:06] in Luxembourg because they can pay less taxes but the Stella is grown in Leuven. It's a beautiful student city, but he also have its beer city in Belgium. Leuven that's so Leuven says stay away from his beer AI. We're going to jump into some idea that was

[00:09:27] from war games kids and seen that the 1980s film with Matthew Broderick. He actually in he hacked into a defense computer a DoD computer and yeah, they played war games anyway events are next and we're not going to have any war games at Wreckfest

[00:09:44] Wreckfest is happening July 11th just north of London England at Nebworth Park. The place is amazing. I personally can't wait to get back so many friends so much good shit happening in the industry can't wait to hear from all these different mouthpieces really looking forward

[00:10:02] to seeing everybody there. So come over to the disrupt stage or going to be talking about technology all damn day. Joel and I are going to be m-sing at the disrupt stage July 11th Nebworth Park at Wreckfest and you are going to be on a

[00:10:16] beach and I was there last year and it was amazing indeed. I was it was the first time I was there and that's it's it's impressive the whole festival sphere and happy people the weather was even nice people drinking beer on an HR festival. It's it's cool.

[00:10:32] Yeah, I love it. We like to call it recruit a Palooza like a Lollapalooza. You know, there's music at the end. I mean, it's just it's it's just the environment of a festival right a recruitment technology festival and I want to copy it.

[00:10:50] I mean we have a house of HR. We have our own festival. It's going to be somewhere in September for our own colleagues and we also have the e-recruitment Congress. So if we would just match up those two then we would have something as good as today.

[00:11:04] I don't know. We're gonna have to talk to Jamie about it. Maybe we can maybe there can be an infusion a house of HR Wreckfest in fusion. That would be pretty awesome to get to create a better world. Let's create some better world with some new shall we?

[00:11:24] All right kids, that's right. Bullhorn buys text kernel this week the bullhorn staffing applicant tracking system acquired parsing and matching powerhouse text kernel. We talked about the news on last week show entitled quote bullhorn strikes back and indeed end quote. So check that out and listen to our

[00:11:43] friend of the show right now text kernel CEO Harard Molder give us his thoughts and insights on the text kernel acquisition by bullhorn. Here we go. Listen to Harard. Hey Jen and Joel. I hope you're doing well and keeping it dangerous. As you know, I like adventures as

[00:12:04] well and happy to announce text kernel is embarking on a new great adventure. We are joining forces with bullhorn the largest platform in the staffing industry globally knowing you both a little. I'm guessing there are two thoughts going through your minds right now one.

[00:12:23] Whoa joining the text kernel AI capabilities with bullhorn's platform with over 10,000 customers is going to give them enormous innovation power and business opportunities and two. But what about the foundational technology text kernel is giving to the wider HR tech community? Is that going to change and what

[00:12:43] a ship would be? Well on the first I can only say yes, you're right. We can't wait to get started on it and I'm more than curious to hear your thoughts about it as well. On the second I have more good news. Board wants to continue to

[00:12:59] deliver the text kernel composable product suite to the wider HR tech community. The only difference this time around it is going to be even better. Why for our access to specific enormous amounts of data, which we are going to make actionable and used to improve our algorithms.

[00:13:20] Well speak to you soon and have a great day. All I gotta say is get out of my head. Herard, how did you know what I was thinking? I mean come on man, but seriously, what are you thinking leaving? I was thinking what was the multiple they paid.

[00:13:34] He didn't mention multiple deadly. He did not. I honestly was thinking what was the multiple. He sounds very happy. So the multiple must be pretty high. I can't imagine that it wasn't. He is holding that very close to his breast pocket. I'll tell you that because

[00:13:50] I tried to get it out of him and I couldn't get it out of him. But go ahead. By the way, Chad, do you remember where you were March 19th, 2024? No, I will tell you. March 19th, you were in Amsterdam at House of HR's eRecruitment Congress.

[00:14:04] And you know who else was there? Herard. And who was there also? Bullhorn. Oh, do you think it's a coincidence? It could have been a match made in heaven. It's a match made in Amsterdam, man. It's like we prepared this or we didn't. This is a match made

[00:14:20] in Amsterdam. Okay, I know it could be coincidence, but the biggest deals are made at House of HR's eRecruitment Congress in Amsterdam. It is known. So I don't think it's coincidence. But anyway, I already congratulated herard. Nicely done. And I think also for Bullhorn it makes sense.

[00:14:36] If you look at the two products, it's like you say a match made in heaven. It's a good idea. And at House of HR, we use both Bullhorn and Text Kernel. So if those two are even going to be working closer together, we only can be very

[00:14:51] enthusiastic about it. And the AI parts will become more important. And if Text Kernel will enable us to create better short lists and to even address external candidate pools, which they do, that would be a big gain for us. So if I got it right,

[00:15:07] they can match through, for example, LinkedIn. Candidates we don't even know, match them with our own vacancies and import them and parcel the information to Bullhorn. And if it works smooth, then this is very, very nice. So thank you, Bullhorn. Thank you, Text Kernel. Yeah, I think even

[00:15:25] even more important that they can match to the candidates that you've already paid for, right? And they can do it with a very high trust content at that point and make it much easier. But I have to say that when herard called me about a week ago,

[00:15:39] about a week before announcing the deal, I was fucking shocked. And the last time I was this shocked was when Robert called me and said that they were selling Sovereign to Text Kernel. Okay. Now why, you might ask, why was I so shocked? Because these companies

[00:15:54] have huge portfolios of business and less than a handful of real competitors. They are printing money. I shit you not. These guys, I remember talking to Robert Ruff before he sold to Sovereign to Text Kernel. And I know that Text Kernel has been growing their footprint.

[00:16:14] But let's go ahead. Let's go ahead and get to herard's point. So I totally agree with you. I don't know what the multiple is, but I guarantee you it is damn, damn big. Number one, herard points to 10,000 companies in Bullhorn. That's a huge portfolio. But from Bullhorn's

[00:16:32] standpoint, I believe it's a huge market differentiator for companies like yours. That turning 10,000 customers into 20,000 or more rather, I mean in short order. But what about Text Kernel's portfolio and their ability to continue to provide parsing and matching to tech companies, HR tech companies all over the world

[00:16:54] because that's what they do today. So I believe this is an expansion of Bullhorn's TAM, which is awesome. And I believe the upside here is great for Text Kernel, but it's even better for Bullhorn. Number two, AI is becoming a commodity quickly, which means data is

[00:17:13] queen on the chessboard and using the data of 10,000 Bullhorn companies to improve Text Kernel's algorithms is enormous. So many have said on the socials that Text Kernel wasn't long for the world because AI would be infringing on their market share. And I would agree if

[00:17:33] Text Kernel wasn't already well beyond the rest of the market in building domain-specific large language models. They've been doing this. They've been working with AI, right? And now they've been working with generative AI for years now. And nobody has the data and expertise that Text Kernel had

[00:17:50] before this acquisition. And now they can pump jet fuel into those models with all of that data from Bullhorn. I think the biggest issue for me, and I said this on the weekly show, is this is a massive, massive lift for an applicant tracking system

[00:18:07] in a company like Bullhorn. Can they pull this off? That's the big question. You've worked with Bullhorn. Do you think they can actually make something this massive happen? I think if one applicant tracking system can do it, it's probably Bullhorn. They are massive themselves.

[00:18:25] They have the right people. They have some, they have big teams. They have the experience. They have the knowledge. They can. I'm pretty confident. And they wouldn't pay the extreme multiple. If they weren't convinced that they were going to pull it off, I think. Yeah, I hope.

[00:18:41] I hope they can do it. This can go in many different directions from a product standpoint because once again, like you said, data and having data lakes and data oceans, that's the new power in this industry. It's not having AI because everybody's going to have AI.

[00:19:01] That's going to be the commodity. It's the data that you can actually crunch on. That's right. Yeah. AI is like a consumer product. It's so easy to use, certainly. Yeah. And we're talking about having again, a domain master, not just somebody who understands the domain,

[00:19:19] but a domain master like a company like Texkernel. And they have so few competitors. And I tell you right now, in talking to some of those competitors, they are happy as happy can be and they should be because you know, or at least do you feel

[00:19:35] that Texkernel got a great multiple number one. And number two, this gives them, those competitors, an opportunity to actually go after the market and start sowing doubt about what Texkernel can do because now they're owned by Bullhorn. So it's going to be interesting

[00:19:50] and I do like this disruption for Bullhorn and for the rest of the market. I agree. I dig it. Okay kids, we're going to take a quick break and come back and talk about revolute going people.

[00:20:33] So apparently the FinTech company Revolut are launching HR tech called Revolut People. This is from their website. Quote, the platform for all things people. Tackle all your employee needs in one place. Haven't heard that before. From performance and HR to hiring. No matter your size

[00:20:55] or where you're from. You can get a full set of products from anywhere. And they're going to be available to you no matter your size or where your team's based. It's the engine behind our 30 times people growth. And now we're building it to businesses around the globe.

[00:21:12] End quote. So friend of the show, Neil Dunwoody, turned us on to this actually happening. Had no clue that Revolut, which is again, it's a FinTech company out of the UK. Had no clue of this new development. Here are some of Neil's insights from LinkedIn

[00:21:29] from a post entitled, Why Revolut's move into HR recruitment tech is alarming. Quote, Revolut, known for disrupting banking, is now targeting the HR recruitment tech sector. I was emailed today by one of their sales team. Imagine that. It instantly set off alarms for me. I could be behind

[00:21:48] the curve on this one. I heard rumors but thought it was a myth. However, the strategic shift raises key concerns. Here are the key concerns. Get ready, leaving. Data privacy concerns with access to extensive financial data. How secure is your data with Revolut entering HR? Market monopolization.

[00:22:06] Revolut's entry might limit competition challenging smaller HR startups. Focus shift. Is Revolut overextending itself by diversifying into HR? Could this impact their core financial services quality? Employee surveillance. Not a good thing. Advanced tech in recruitment process raises concerns about intrusive monitoring and data-centric decision making. As Revolut expands,

[00:22:33] it's crucial for the community to ensure this move upholds privacy, fairness, and market competitiveness. Leaving, big issues. Data privacy concerns, market monopolization, focus and surveillance. What do you think about Revolut's move and Neil's comments? To be honest, I didn't even know Revolut. I don't think

[00:22:55] I could be mistaken but I don't think directly outside the UK, at least they're definitely not active in Belgium and the Netherlands and the markets I follow. There is a link of course between HR and banking and that sets payrolling. It's all about the money

[00:23:08] and I can imagine banks getting active in HR but I've never heard something like this. And maybe the things we just summed up are right. It could be endangering. If I had a bank called Revolut and they would have something to do with my HR, then I would

[00:23:30] switch banks. I wouldn't like the two together. So I'm not definitely sure if that's a very good idea but I don't really know enough about this to give some interesting remarks and rights. Well it's interesting because they actually created this platform and we've seen this over the years.

[00:23:48] So I remember when applicant tracking systems first started, companies started to build their own. They started to build in-house applicant tracking systems. You still see them today but they're much more rare today than they were back in the early aughts. But what they never did, these companies,

[00:24:03] they never built it and then sold it to other people. That's what Revolut is doing. They built this for themselves. Number one, they didn't want to deal with another applicant tracking system. And guess what? They were like, hey guess what? This is working really well for us.

[00:24:18] So they're white labeling it and reselling it. That's a great idea. They have 10,000 plus employees that are managed in 60 plus different countries with 1.9 million applications per year. So they're obviously a rather large company and now they just want to productize this. Now, here's the thing.

[00:24:37] I'm going to go ahead and I want to hit Neil's points point by point. Data privacy concerns, they're fintech. So privacy is a part of risk assessment on a daily basis. So I don't think privacy, data privacy is an issue. Market monopolization, I don't believe Revolut

[00:24:54] has the experience nor the understanding of this market enough to think about them as a monopoly, especially at this early juncture. Plus, they say that they're going into enterprise. Well, let's see how they do to penetrate the SME market first. I don't see them

[00:25:12] going very far, very fast with this because we've, once again, you see a bunch of companies who have no clue what they're doing in HR and they start an HR company and it crashes and burns pretty quick. Focus, focus. I definitely agree on the focus because it's suspect.

[00:25:31] But even more suspect is their inexperience in this space. Just because they built an in-house system that fits their needs does not mean it fits the needs of the market. Not everybody hires like Revolut does. Go ahead. Not necessarily, but it might be. Maybe they found something

[00:25:50] and they thought if nobody has it, then we're going to build it ourselves. Maybe they found the holy grail and then I think white labeling it and reselling it is a great idea. We also had a few projects like that one, something we thought we needed

[00:26:05] and in the end we developed it ourselves because we couldn't find it in the markets. I asked our CEO, I asked Rika, couldn't we white label this and resell it? But she said, and she's totally right, we're not in the business of selling software.

[00:26:17] This would be just too time consuming to get this started and keep it to ourselves. Sometimes if you think you know better, do it and maybe Revolut, what's it called, Revolut, yeah. Maybe they knew better and maybe they did come up with something really intrusive and something great

[00:26:32] and then I wish them all the luck and I'm starting to feel some sympathy for them. I really didn't know them so they're not big where I am, I think. The big difference between Revolut and you guys building something is that you're in this industry. So you understand

[00:26:49] that's I think much different than somebody who's in FinTech. The surveillance point, I totally agree. I agree with that on all levels of all products. We have to have some type of watchdog that's happening around that. But last but not least, Neil,

[00:27:02] thanks for bringing this to our attention man personally. I see this much like Google creating an applicant tracking system, which they did, and then they ditched it about a year after they launched it because I don't believe Revolut understands what they've gotten themselves into

[00:27:20] and just how small of a total addressable market this is compared to FinTech. If they would have gotten into payroll systems, as you'd said right out of the gate, leaving, I would have said this is smart. This makes, this just makes sense.

[00:27:35] You could do daily pay kind of things. There are so many things you can do around the FinTech piece of it. This is smart. What they did here, I totally believe is out of bounds. Google shut theirs down. Facebook tried to get into workspaces, those types of things.

[00:27:50] Companies who don't understand this business, especially the size of this business, usually shut it down. Now they'll probably keep it for themselves because it's working, but at the end of the day, I don't see this getting much traction. That's just me. That's just me.

[00:28:05] Now let's talk about putting a new shade of lipstick on a pig. Let's talk about that. So StepStone CEO, our friends over at StepStone, Sebastian Detmers announced changes to StepStone's brand in a LinkedIn post earlier this week. We are thrilled to announce that we are now live

[00:28:24] with our new brand design in the UK, Ireland and Northern Ireland. Our job search platforms have received a stunning new brand design now featured on Total Jobs in the UK, Irish Jobs in Ireland and NI Jobs in Northern Ireland. What exactly does that mean?

[00:28:44] Well, now when you visit Total Jobs, Irish Jobs or NI Jobs, they will all have a unified StepStone colour scheme. What do you think about that, Leevin? Everybody together, unified, united as one family. What do you think? All right.

[00:29:00] I think the guy just wanted to give his marketing team some recognition. They have been going through the whole rebranding period. It was a lot of work and now he wanted to thank them and to give them some recognition. But in times when everyone is talking about innovation

[00:29:15] and disruption and AI and how are we going to change the world of work, I think changing some colours is not something the CEO of a job board should be bragging about. But it's just me. Maybe I totally missed it. I don't know.

[00:29:30] No, I think you're spot on. I think it's different shade of lipstick on the same pig. StepStone has bigger issues than colour schemes. And here are some of the problems that I see right out of the gate. Just reading this, right?

[00:29:43] Problem number one, they pick the ugliest option available. Total jobs had this bright green that pops and it's now gone. So if you go into a conference, one of the things that really differentiates the booze are the colour schemes, right? And the total jobs colour scheme just pops.

[00:30:04] Irish jobs, bright yellow, which leapt off a black background, gone. And NI jobs, well, it's certainly better than the new boring-ass StepStone palette. So that's my problem number one. The new palette is just boring and ugly as hell. Problem number two, we've learned,

[00:30:25] and I believe as we've watched with House of HR and how you guys operate, that allowing companies to better align with their national community is key. Now, StepStone isn't changing the names of the sites. Don't get me wrong, not yet at least.

[00:30:39] But when an invading country comes in, they automatically post their flag. They post their colours. That's what this feels like. And Britain, Ireland and Northern Ireland won't like bearing the colours of German StepStone. Okay? I see that as a problem. One of the things that you guys do

[00:30:59] is you allow the brands to keep their own character, to stay local, right? What StepStone is doing here is they're starting to slowly drain that from these platforms. Problem number three, changing colours won't help traditional tech against new and more innovative ways to attract, engage

[00:31:19] and hire candidates in all of these countries. StepStone acquired the chatbot company, Maya Systems over three years ago, and they have failed to embed the tech across their platforms. They've had opportunities to actually advance their tech. These three problems are the reason why AppCast, that's right kids,

[00:31:40] AppCast should be the parent company and StepStone and Sebastian should sit back and learn from Chris Foreman, who I believe should be teaching the entire group because he has demonstrated that his strategy and AppCast strategy in this industry is a completely different level than anyone

[00:32:00] that we've seen from StepStone or Axel Springer. So some pretty big problems I see. What do you think about that? Could be right. I was just wondering how about the IPO? Did we hear anything about the IPO? That's another good point. That's another great point.

[00:32:15] How does new colours help you get to IPO faster? And again, this is the CEO and again he's looking to provide recognition to marketing and whatnot and it's kind of like a little pat on the head. But how does a CEO announcing new brand colours

[00:32:31] actually move you closer to IPO? How does that move you closer to better revenues? How does that move you closer to innovation? I think this is a non-event and they probably know it but they share it anyway. But I didn't hear anything about the IPO anymore

[00:32:46] so I think that's, is it still on the agenda I think? I think it's still on the agenda. I think they're waiting till 25 to see how things shake out. It will be interesting but I do have to agree that first off, StepStone hasn't really been in the news

[00:33:04] over the past month or so so maybe Sebastian just wants to try to get something that's out there. But I love when companies, especially CEOs talk about stupid shit because we get to talk about it on the show even. That's right. That's right and it's that time.

[00:33:20] It's time to get ready for a little Euro 2024 and grab some of that AI Belgian beer. Don't touch our beer. The beer has been great since, I don't know, the 13th century. Why should it be touched by AI? It's all about evolution my friend. We out! We out!

[00:33:39] Thank you for listening to what's it called? A podcast. The chat. The cheese. Brilliant! They talk about recruiting. They talk about technology. But most of all, they talk about nothing. Just a lot of shout outs of people you don't even know and yet you're listening. It's incredible.

[00:33:59] And not one word about cheese. Not one. Cheddar. Blue. Nacho. Pepper Jack. Swiss. There's so many cheeses and not one word. So weird. Anywho, be sure to subscribe today on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play or wherever you listen to your podcasts. That way you won't miss an episode.

[00:34:24] And while you're at it, visit www.chatcheese.com. Just don't expect to find any recipes for grilled cheese. It's so weird. We out! How much do you understand the future of finance? I'm Jim Roos, a top 10 banking influencer and host of the podcast

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