Money Power with Nico Simko

[00:00:00] Yo Chad, what if I told you there's a platform that could completely revolutionize your

[00:00:06] hiring strategy in a matter of hours?

[00:00:10] Yeah, I'd call a bullshit.

[00:00:11] Well, it's not bullshit with AI for jobs powered by our friends at this way global.

[00:00:17] Okay, I'm listening.

[00:00:19] Well, everyone else is fishing in the same old talent pools.

[00:00:22] AI for jobs can source over 160 million diverse candidate profiles.

[00:00:29] This way global has established unique partnerships with over 8,500 trusted diversity partners.

[00:00:36] So wait a minute.

[00:00:37] All of the hard on the groundwork is already done.

[00:00:40] That's right, cowboy.

[00:00:41] You can discover 300 qualified candidates per job rack instantly.

[00:00:45] Wow.

[00:00:46] It's like having a candidate sourcing magic wand.

[00:00:49] Dude, if you had a magic wand, you would have Mexican pizzas all day.

[00:00:57] Job distracting me so, Ash.

[00:00:59] AI for jobs advanced matching algorithm analyzes past applicants using trillions of historical

[00:01:05] matching events and over 1,600 data points.

[00:01:09] Now that is what AI should be doing, saving your recruiter's time on sourcing while they

[00:01:14] provide a white glove candidate experience.

[00:01:18] Let's wrap this shit up.

[00:01:19] I'm hungry.

[00:01:20] Listen up, kids.

[00:01:52] The recruiting industry right where hers complete with breaking news, brush opinion and

[00:01:57] loads of snorkebop a lot boys and girls.

[00:02:00] It's on for the chat.

[00:02:02] It's a podcast.

[00:02:03] Oh yeah, it's Lenin Squiggy's favorite podcast, aka the chat and cheese podcast.

[00:02:13] I'm your co-host Joel Cheezman.

[00:02:15] Join us always to LeVern to my Shirley Chet So Wash is in the house.

[00:02:20] And we are welcoming Nico Simco to the show he's founder and CEO at Claire, a company with

[00:02:26] a radical idea.

[00:02:27] Getting your paycheck the minute you clock out of work.

[00:02:30] Nico, welcome to the podcast.

[00:02:32] Thank you so much for having me.

[00:02:34] Nico Simco.

[00:02:35] Get some.

[00:02:36] Tell me a little bit about that name.

[00:02:38] Nico Simco.

[00:02:39] Yes.

[00:02:40] Nico Simco to the stage.

[00:02:41] So I was born Nicolas Simco but I felt that Nico Simco was in rhymes.

[00:02:48] It's easier to say.

[00:02:49] It's short.

[00:02:50] It's usually you know when you put it on a slide, you don't have to go to the line if

[00:02:54] you put it as Nico.

[00:02:55] So branding.

[00:02:56] This is all a branding thing.

[00:02:57] This is all a branding thing.

[00:03:00] So Nico, a lot of our listeners don't know you.

[00:03:03] They probably don't a lot of them don't know the company.

[00:03:05] We'll get to the company a second.

[00:03:06] Let's dig into you for a little bit.

[00:03:08] What makes Nico click?

[00:03:10] Deep dark secrets, Nico.

[00:03:12] Bring it.

[00:03:13] Great taste in eyewear by the way.

[00:03:14] Great taste in eyewear.

[00:03:15] And if you would talk into the microphone that would be helpful.

[00:03:20] I will try.

[00:03:21] I have to look in the distance.

[00:03:22] I have to look in the distance sometimes.

[00:03:24] What?

[00:03:25] How am I going to answer this?

[00:03:26] Look in the jolt's eyes.

[00:03:27] Exactly.

[00:03:28] No, honestly what makes me click is and it's going to sound really boring but it's really

[00:03:34] true.

[00:03:35] It's the people.

[00:03:36] It's always about the people.

[00:03:37] If you ask me what I would put on my Twitter bio, that's what I would go.

[00:03:41] It's the people.

[00:03:42] It's the people.

[00:03:43] That's it.

[00:03:44] It's not sexy but it's an answer.

[00:03:46] Because people are stupid.

[00:03:47] I mean come on, let's say people are stupid.

[00:03:50] So what about the people?

[00:03:52] About bringing them along around shepherding them, around patting them on the head to get

[00:03:57] me what?

[00:03:58] Let's go date.

[00:03:59] Just the teeth.

[00:04:00] Look, we are fully social animals and like we're not normal animals.

[00:04:06] What we like to do is do things together and I think that that's one of the things that

[00:04:11] for me gets me to click.

[00:04:13] It's when you can work on it with a team on a really cool, ambitious project.

[00:04:19] It's when you've had a really long day and you're at home and you're decompressing around

[00:04:25] a beer with a bunch of friends.

[00:04:27] It's when you go.

[00:04:28] That's more fun.

[00:04:29] You get on a plane exactly.

[00:04:30] You get on a plane and you go to somewhere you've never been before and things very differently

[00:04:36] than you did growing up or where you currently live.

[00:04:39] Right.

[00:04:40] It's the people.

[00:04:41] It's the people that build him out of his high school econ class for this interview.

[00:04:45] So he hasn't had a lot of life experiences.

[00:04:47] So people is what he's got and what he's going for.

[00:04:50] I will add, he's being humble.

[00:04:52] You were a Forbes 30 under 30.

[00:04:54] You're Harvard graduate and your undergrad was in Geneva of all places, correct?

[00:04:59] Well, my high school was in Geneva but I went to Harvard University for college.

[00:05:03] Yes.

[00:05:04] All right.

[00:05:05] Enough about you.

[00:05:06] Okay.

[00:05:07] So, I'm going to give you a second.

[00:05:14] I'm going to give you two seconds.

[00:05:21] Can pay your friends in two seconds through Venmo, through Zell, through whatever you want.

[00:05:25] Why can't you do this with your paycheck?

[00:05:27] Good question.

[00:05:28] That's it.

[00:05:29] That's the story of the company.

[00:05:30] So why is it that companies haven't moved to this methodology already?

[00:05:37] I mean, the technology, it's not like the technology is not available.

[00:05:42] It's not like all these different platforms, these human capital management platforms don't

[00:05:46] have payroll systems in them.

[00:05:48] So why is it taking so long for people to get paid?

[00:05:52] Because companies like sitting on the capital and getting the interest, I mean, what is it?

[00:05:57] Is it just that easy?

[00:05:58] There's two fundamental things.

[00:05:59] If a business today wants to pay their employees immediately, they're going to face two issues.

[00:06:06] Then go to a restaurant, swipe a credit card pay someone.

[00:06:09] That money's not going to get into their bank account for next two, three, four or five

[00:06:12] days depending on if it's on a Friday, if there's a holiday or whatever it is.

[00:06:15] It's going to take time for them to get into a bank account.

[00:06:17] So basically the business has to like suddenly go and raise capital somewhere.

[00:06:21] If they're not doing that, then actually money that you owe for payroll is pretty great,

[00:06:26] you know, money management and treasury management because you delay your account payables.

[00:06:31] And so there's no real financial incentive for the businesses to do it.

[00:06:34] The second issue is the tax code.

[00:06:37] Most people in America are paid what we call W2, which is they get a paycheck in the mail

[00:06:43] and then they think their paycheck's going to be high but it's always lower why because

[00:06:46] there's a lot of taxes and you know, deductions and all of this.

[00:06:49] That makes running payroll actually pretty complicated because you have to calculate all of

[00:06:54] these things, you have to account for them.

[00:06:57] It's not a very straightforward process.

[00:06:59] And with that, with the tax component is that the money doesn't travel immediately.

[00:07:04] Now that might change with real-time payments but still if an employer wanted to do it,

[00:07:08] they're going to still face the two issues which is they have to calculate the taxes.

[00:07:11] These taxes can change in addition to this.

[00:07:13] Somebody needs to front the capital.

[00:07:14] And I assume you guys solve this problem.

[00:07:17] Exactly.

[00:07:18] How often do the taxes change where you have to fix this formula all the time?

[00:07:21] It's not always a moving target is it?

[00:07:23] Is this like an annual quarterly?

[00:07:25] I mean, why is this a problem?

[00:07:27] It is a problem because there are things that always pop up.

[00:07:31] If you take the average worker, they will not work a fixed salary job.

[00:07:36] They will work an hour-day job.

[00:07:38] If you take the average worker, they will take overtime.

[00:07:41] If you take the average job place, the hours need to be confirmed by the manager in order

[00:07:47] for this to be calculated.

[00:07:48] The manager has to confirm that those were overtime hours.

[00:07:51] They need to look at the latest list of like how much is that overtime calculated for?

[00:07:56] If you're working in delivery, there are laws around the idea that if it's more raining

[00:08:00] that day than another, then you should owe the person a bit more money.

[00:08:04] Those things add up to the complexity where operation for business.

[00:08:08] It's better to do this every two weeks than to have to sit down every day and actually

[00:08:12] confirm that all of that is done.

[00:08:13] I agree AI, a lot of technology can help with it but it's still really complicated.

[00:08:18] Do you guys solve that for them?

[00:08:20] Or are you just the financial sort of...

[00:08:23] Do you guys loan them the money and they pay you back?

[00:08:25] Do the employees...

[00:08:27] Are they it?

[00:08:28] Is this a payday loan thing where they're on the hook for the money?

[00:08:32] Talk about, I guess, the backend stuff of this because it sounds a bit complicated.

[00:08:36] We advance the money to the consumer based on the data that we have from the employer

[00:08:40] because what we want to do is say, look, employer, you want to offer this but you don't want

[00:08:44] to deal with it.

[00:08:45] That's kind of every employer we talk to, that's what they tell us.

[00:08:49] We work backwards from the person who runs a chart and average business, who's like,

[00:08:54] I would love to give this to them but look at the stack of work I have to do.

[00:08:57] How do I do it simply?

[00:08:58] We will front the money to the consumer.

[00:09:00] We will all we want is the data so that we can make an underwriting decision and then

[00:09:04] the employee repays.

[00:09:05] We don't charge any fees when they sign up for a bank and that's the only way today

[00:09:09] that they can advance the money.

[00:09:10] They need to sign up for a bank, put the direct deposit there.

[00:09:13] It's basically a micro loan you give to consumers that they repay at their next paycheck

[00:09:18] without any fees.

[00:09:19] That's basically the product.

[00:09:20] How do you get paid if there's no fees?

[00:09:23] Brilliant question.

[00:09:24] What we do is we sign them up for a new bank, they put their direct deposit there and then

[00:09:27] we give them a card to cute little blue card that employees can use in order to pay for

[00:09:31] certain expenses.

[00:09:32] When they do, let's say they go to trade or chose here in New York.

[00:09:36] They're going to Chipotle.

[00:09:37] Perfect, Chipotle.

[00:09:38] That makes even more money for us.

[00:09:40] That's great.

[00:09:41] So basically Chipotle, they buy burrito, they get the extra guac, it costs them more than

[00:09:45] they thought.

[00:09:46] So it's $13 or $14.

[00:09:48] We are going to receive approximately 1.2, 1.3 percent of that transaction is going to

[00:09:56] go back to MasterCard and MasterCard is going to give that back to us.

[00:09:59] This is a relationship between Chipotle and MasterCard.

[00:10:01] It's just that we have an agreement with MasterCard because with the program manager,

[00:10:05] that we get most of it back to us and that's how we make money.

[00:10:07] Are you a debit card or a credit card?

[00:10:09] Is this a debit card?

[00:10:11] The company is paying you for the fee of the transaction.

[00:10:14] If they try to overspend what they have, it's like, sorry, no burrito for you, basically.

[00:10:19] No burrito for you.

[00:10:20] No burrito for you.

[00:10:21] That's a sad day, Jesus.

[00:10:22] But the story is this is that when I talk to a bunch of hourly workers, their feeling

[00:10:27] is this, look, I'm at the gas station.

[00:10:30] It's the 28th of the month.

[00:10:31] I've started paying some bills, my credit card bail and all of that.

[00:10:34] And I'm two, three days away from my paycheck arriving or sometimes it's 5, 6, 7, depends.

[00:10:39] And I'm at the gas station.

[00:10:40] I swipe my card and it denies.

[00:10:42] The card's denied.

[00:10:43] And that is one of the most frustrating and most painful experience you can think of.

[00:10:49] You're at the gas station, you need gas to get home.

[00:10:51] How do you do it?

[00:10:52] It has happened to many, many, many people out there.

[00:10:55] And the idea was like, hey, you've actually made a loan to your own employer.

[00:10:59] Why do I call it this way?

[00:11:00] It's because you've worked and they owe you money.

[00:11:02] You're lending to them.

[00:11:03] So why can't you just pull 20, 30 dollars to get gas in the car and keep going?

[00:11:09] And that particular use case is where we said, oh my god, we're about to build the biggest

[00:11:14] financial institution in the country because we're going to give free advances to people.

[00:11:19] On top of that, there's going to be a great card and people are going to love us for

[00:11:21] it.

[00:11:22] We're lining our incentives.

[00:11:23] We're not trying to kick them when they're at the bottom.

[00:11:26] What we're trying to do is actually be there.

[00:11:28] Oh my god, this bank was awesome.

[00:11:29] Let me tell my friends they should sign up for it because it's, and that's where the

[00:11:32] idea of Claire came up.

[00:11:33] So let's take a look at the entire, the entire kind of structure, right?

[00:11:37] So these are individuals who at the end of the month, they need that cash.

[00:11:41] And we do know that at least a third of the population, at the end of the month, they

[00:11:46] need that cash, right?

[00:11:47] They less than a thousand dollars in their account at any time, right?

[00:11:51] So what's the incentive for anybody?

[00:11:53] Let's say, for instance, like in the middle stack, right?

[00:11:56] I mean, why don't need the money?

[00:11:59] I've got more in savings.

[00:12:01] Is that actually an addressable market for you?

[00:12:05] Because I'm asking that because there are some major Fortune 500 companies who employ those

[00:12:10] people, who could easily, you know, obviously start using a service or a system like yours

[00:12:17] pretty quickly.

[00:12:18] I would assume.

[00:12:19] And that would be a great benefit to any individual who's coming in completely.

[00:12:24] We have people on our application that signed up for the bank never took away advance.

[00:12:30] And when those cohorts three or four years ago started coming in, I went in our database

[00:12:35] and I just texted one of the user and I said, hey, I would, you know, would you be willing

[00:12:39] to get on the phone with me for 20 minutes?

[00:12:40] Half of them thought there was a scam.

[00:12:42] So it took me a while to get onto the phone with someone who's like, why is this you

[00:12:45] with this company calling me?

[00:12:47] And honestly, I got on the phone with them.

[00:12:48] And after one or two phone calls, some of them were not really fruitful.

[00:12:53] Somebody sat, you know, told me, he's like, hey, Nico, you know, the reason why I signed

[00:12:56] up for Claire is because I don't need the money everyday.

[00:12:59] Most workers don't want the money every day.

[00:13:00] That's where she told me.

[00:13:01] But knowing it's there makes me feel more financially free.

[00:13:05] And that became a mission, make America's workforce feel financially free.

[00:13:09] It's not about you taking advances.

[00:13:10] I do, we do not track that.

[00:13:12] Like an investor asked me on a board meeting, oh, so how many often do they take advances?

[00:13:16] Like, I just actually don't know because what I care about is are they actually happily

[00:13:20] banked with us and for us, the feature of getting your money right now is the free thing

[00:13:25] we give you so that you know you can feel better at night.

[00:13:29] Okay, listener, how can you help your employees become more productive?

[00:13:35] I have answers.

[00:13:36] How about automating manual and repetitive tasks, giving meaning to data, then allowing

[00:13:42] that data to actually drive decisions and how about matching people to your jobs quicker?

[00:13:48] Well, wait, the chat and cheese has a new LLM.

[00:13:53] No, cheeseman, I'm talking about text kernel.

[00:13:57] Okay, that makes more sense.

[00:13:59] What I'm hearing is the groundbreaking concept of wait for it.

[00:14:04] Yeah, simplicity.

[00:14:06] Seriously though, seriously, text kernel cuts through the complexities like a tortilla chip

[00:14:12] through some hot nacho cheese.

[00:14:14] Oh my god, really?

[00:14:15] Nacho references already.

[00:14:16] Anyways, text kernel brings efficiency and productivity to your operations.

[00:14:22] Text kernel seamlessly unifies your tools and data to drive efficiencies and success.

[00:14:29] Text kernel is creating new opportunities for your recruitment journey, kind of like

[00:14:34] adding guac to my barbacoa burrito.

[00:14:37] Oh my god, how about extracting meaningful insights from data?

[00:14:42] I mean, that's something swiftly matching people with jobs, automating repetitive tasks

[00:14:48] who knew such advanced concepts were even possible in the land of human resources.

[00:14:56] We did, Chad.

[00:14:57] We did.

[00:14:58] Dude, wrap it up.

[00:14:59] I'm a little hungry.

[00:15:01] Imagine that.

[00:15:02] Okay, listener, get ready to use today's tech to drive efficiencies and productivity.

[00:15:07] Visit textcurnell.com.

[00:15:09] That's T-E-X-T-K-E-R-N-E-L dot com.

[00:15:17] Nachos.

[00:15:21] That's reading the card is how you guys get paid, right?

[00:15:24] So they, I mean, at some time, they have to use the card.

[00:15:28] So I would assume and I'm sure you take a look at this because this is your revenue stream.

[00:15:34] That we look at.

[00:15:35] When you take a look at actual users or percentage of the actual user base on a monthly

[00:15:41] basis, how often do they use their cards just in an average?

[00:15:45] So on average, people will spend 80% of their paycheck on the card.

[00:15:52] So we are the primary bank account.

[00:15:54] That for me is success.

[00:15:56] Is that they trust us enough when they pull the card out of the wallet?

[00:16:00] They're like, that's the bank that I want.

[00:16:02] Although we partnered with a bank, we're a financial technology platform on top of it.

[00:16:05] It's FDIC and shared, they're called Pathward, but they really feel like the banking solution

[00:16:10] they get out of us is holistic enough with the primary choice.

[00:16:13] You guys offer any interest on those accounts or not?

[00:16:17] We do.

[00:16:18] We have a savings account.

[00:16:19] We open before we advance any money to people because we want them to save.

[00:16:21] And so we give a PY, it changes with the market changing.

[00:16:25] I don't exactly know what it's at right now, but it's correlated to what the foot fence

[00:16:28] is.

[00:16:29] It can be worse than Chase.

[00:16:30] It can't be worse than Chase.

[00:16:33] On the tax side, I'm curious.

[00:16:35] So when you work as part of the wait staff of a restaurant, obviously you get $2 in whatever

[00:16:40] it is an hour, and then you get tips on top of that.

[00:16:43] The company gives you your tax information in terms of your annual salary, and then

[00:16:48] you have to report the additional tips.

[00:16:51] Does the company give you your tax information in regards to your hourly salary in this situation?

[00:16:59] So basically I have to sort of keep tabs on save enough for taxes.

[00:17:04] The company doesn't do it for me.

[00:17:06] Like walk me through the tax situation as a worker.

[00:17:09] So this is the beauty of our system.

[00:17:10] This is where we add a lot of value, is that we remove that away from both the employer

[00:17:15] and the employee.

[00:17:16] What we'll know is let's say go to a restaurant worker, again I'll use your $2 an hour plus

[00:17:20] the rest of the tips.

[00:17:22] We'll know that this person makes $2 an hour.

[00:17:23] We know like because of how much data we have that there is a 99% probability that giving

[00:17:30] them a dollar per hour call it is completely fine and it's like we will get our money back.

[00:17:37] We will give them a dollar per hour.

[00:17:38] Now luckily most employees will not be making $2 an hour, they'll be making $7, $15, $20,

[00:17:44] $25 so they're making more per hour but that's the value of our algorithm is that now

[00:17:49] that with thousands of workplaces as we can analyze this data and get it as close as

[00:17:53] we can without taking any credit risk.

[00:17:56] And you will be able to actually provide spending habits for the entire American population

[00:18:03] who are using this card.

[00:18:05] So I mean you know when the dollars hit the bank and you know what's being bought pretty

[00:18:11] much right after those dollars hit the bank.

[00:18:14] I mean to be able to have that data and as we take a look at generative AI and what not

[00:18:20] being able to crunch that kind of data to be able to provide the kind of spending patterns

[00:18:26] back to the markets, this seems like a play more for data in understanding the consumer

[00:18:31] market than it is even on the pay side.

[00:18:34] That is exactly why I believe that sure getting your money as quickly as possible is an

[00:18:40] enormous product and we're doing it well.

[00:18:43] It's what I live for but we're actually building the best financial institution in the country

[00:18:46] because what you're talking about here is you're marrying your bank to all of the information

[00:18:51] you have at work so I can give you a list of products that do not exist today but that

[00:18:56] could exist.

[00:18:57] One of my favorite examples today is I take the subway here in New York and I go to work

[00:19:01] that is a pretext event.

[00:19:02] That is something that technically the tax code allows you to do as a pretext event why

[00:19:06] we go into work so there's text and like you will get tax rebates.

[00:19:09] Why can't I get that cash back immediately?

[00:19:11] Why can't I just swipe and says oh great we've connected all of that back to your payroll

[00:19:15] you get ten cents back on this transaction.

[00:19:17] Why can't you actually instead of taking wage advance you say please make my unpaid payroll

[00:19:23] a collateral account and then help me use that to increase my credit score.

[00:19:28] Why?

[00:19:29] Because you're like look I'm working my hours, my money's aside now can I use that as

[00:19:32] a proof that I'm going to get paid.

[00:19:34] You can get your credit score.

[00:19:35] You didn't do anything you just went to work and your credit score goes up.

[00:19:39] There are products today that could help America's workforce get so much more ahead financially

[00:19:45] where they are that today don't exist because the banks don't marry to your workplace.

[00:19:50] Okay that's just a mind blown scenario right there because again again you're working

[00:19:56] on the base of allowing people to get money right after they've rendered services.

[00:20:01] I mean that's what it comes down to right when you go and you go into a store and you

[00:20:05] have somebody sharpen you know a saw or something like that you pay for rendered services

[00:20:09] right?

[00:20:10] This is exactly what we're you're talking about is I go to work on a daily basis I've

[00:20:15] rendered services therefore you pay me right then then I go and spend money or wherever

[00:20:22] it might be you're going to have access to all of the data to where that money has been

[00:20:27] spent from a spending habit standpoint not to mention as you had said which goes above

[00:20:32] and beyond you know all the people who actually came through into took the subway system whatever

[00:20:38] they came into work they did work and then there's the tax incentives that actually go

[00:20:44] back to the companies.

[00:20:45] So I mean this is there's a huge reason why a company would want to use this because

[00:20:51] they have proof that here's my workforce.

[00:20:54] Here's what my workforce did now give me my tax incentive money exactly right so there

[00:20:59] are so many different avenues of approach for you to actually use this data then you can

[00:21:04] actually go back to the US the BLS any of those departments who want data on spending habits

[00:21:11] and in workflow so on and so forth this is exciting just from a data standpoint.

[00:21:16] So Chad is super excited.

[00:21:20] Super excited.

[00:21:21] Let's look at some of the other things benefits companies get from this because I got

[00:21:26] to imagine asking them to change the way they've done things forever is not easy there are

[00:21:30] a lot of research out there and posts about absenteeism and retention improvements with

[00:21:39] a system like this can you talk about any data that you're seeing in terms of companies

[00:21:43] having people show up to work and not ghosting them like anything around that that you

[00:21:47] can share.

[00:21:48] We have seen that with Claire you have 1.5 to X more people applying for a job I was in

[00:21:56] the subway this morning there was a company I don't think they work with us but they

[00:22:00] listed why you should come at work the only one that was bolded is get paid daily.

[00:22:04] I think people have realized that getting your advance on your like getting your money

[00:22:08] as soon as you finish work which it sounds so simple to say I have no idea why I had

[00:22:14] to start a company in the space.

[00:22:15] I feel like this should have been solved 20 years ago.

[00:22:17] I'm serious and so I'm like great somebody left this opportunity for somebody to jump

[00:22:21] in but like what happened to society that nobody thought about doing this before and

[00:22:26] so that increases people wanting that job.

[00:22:30] The second thing is people I've heard anecdotal stories and I don't know how this transformed

[00:22:36] into data.

[00:22:37] When an employee tells me one of the user research I've had is like look Nico I send

[00:22:40] up for Claire because I work at this restaurant I will parse your name of the restaurant and

[00:22:45] I used to be sick at the end of the month and go drive Uber and I said why he put air quotes

[00:22:51] in there for the list.

[00:22:52] Exactly.

[00:22:53] He told me he was like look Nico like I kind of just wanted to make the money right now

[00:22:56] because it gets tight at the end of the month so and then I saw this and I was like okay

[00:23:01] I'm not going to call sick anymore and he was like I picked up more shifts and he gave

[00:23:05] me an incentive to pick up more shifts.

[00:23:07] Winning.

[00:23:08] And that's I then I met a nurse who was in the suburbs of Chicago and she was telling

[00:23:12] me this story she was like look who I like where this is going he met a nurse in Chicago.

[00:23:18] We were launching the product we had the cars on site.

[00:23:20] We know where this goes.

[00:23:22] What are you doing step bro?

[00:23:25] I'm sorry.

[00:23:26] Continue.

[00:23:27] So she basically was like I had a job offer to go somewhere else across the street and

[00:23:34] to make 50 cents more per hour which is what's a big deal for her.

[00:23:38] She was a system nurse and she told me look I didn't take the job because I knew that

[00:23:44] like the knowing I could get my paycheck at any point gave me more financial stability

[00:23:48] than a 50 cents increase so you retain your workers a little bit longer.

[00:23:52] Now I'm not going to be around and be like I knew exactly the number it's going to be

[00:23:56] at your exact workplace of retention no no no no I'm not in that business because

[00:23:59] I think it varies a lot business by business and it's hard for me to give like a number

[00:24:03] but I think the facts and the quality to facts are there that these products are very

[00:24:08] needed for the workplace and for employers.

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[00:25:01] So Nico this industry is not without its critics and its regulations and government interference

[00:25:07] so Nevada and Missouri are two states that have implemented or introduced laws where you

[00:25:13] have to be licensed and you're into more what's going on so explain what's going on there

[00:25:17] and you simply have a lot of people point the fingers that this is sort of a pay day loan

[00:25:22] thing daily pay one of your competitors on trust pilot and not that stuff to be all

[00:25:28] in all but it has you know one star out of five you know six hundred some reviews like

[00:25:32] people don't like the service I don't know if that's the company or the actual what they're

[00:25:35] doing so talk a little bit about the government regulations and some of the customer or critical

[00:25:41] you know opposition that you're getting to the business fair foul.

[00:25:44] Look when we started this business it wasn't clear whether this was alone not alone I

[00:25:50] loved a duck test not sure if you guys know what a duck test is but if it looks like

[00:25:55] a duck oh duck walks like a duck swims like a duck sounds like a duck what is it it's

[00:26:00] a duck yeah and so whenever I would just talk to any lawyer I'd say I would like to advance

[00:26:05] money to people based on payroll data and then for them to pay me back once they get paid

[00:26:10] and they're like that sounds like a loan and every single time it was the same so I was

[00:26:15] like well that everybody else doesn't call it alone and it seems like their states

[00:26:18] have decided this is not alone and so they're like well guy like you do what you want but

[00:26:23] this looks like a duck again and so I sat down and I said hey if I'm fresh and new to

[00:26:30] this at least from a compliance perspective and everybody's pointing to the fact that

[00:26:33] this looks like a duck but everybody wants to ignore it as it there might be defensibility

[00:26:37] here there may be something that really sets us apart then so understood why calling

[00:26:41] it alone was actually complicated because it costs a lot of money you have to create a consumer

[00:26:45] lending program you have to get licenses in most states you have to get audited by most

[00:26:49] states you have to not only some licenses some states require three licenses right not

[00:26:54] only one so you have to apply for each of them you have to maintain them you have to have

[00:26:57] an internal compliance and blah blah blah I can keep on going right and so I said well we're

[00:27:01] gonna do it and so I went over to the investor and said I have two options I can do this in

[00:27:05] a way that is like I'm pretty sure it's gonna be fine because there's laws attached to

[00:27:09] it that have been there since the truth and lending act in the 70s so we had to do it this

[00:27:14] way or we go cowboy and we're like we hope make all the states are gonna agree that this is not

[00:27:19] alone might happen and we decided to go the more conservative route and so that really helped us

[00:27:24] from a business development standpoint but it's still a debate out there it's still a debate

[00:27:28] well I mean at the end of the day you were taking a look at the prospect of which are out there

[00:27:34] today in some states not all states predatory payday loans right which used to be against the law

[00:27:41] but they're not in some states now but what you're saying is this is not a we give you $20

[00:27:48] you give us 40 when you get paid scenario you're not getting paid a big off of you know the dollars

[00:27:57] from the actual consumer slash worker you are making that money through transactions via mastercard

[00:28:06] exactly that's exactly right I can see where obviously you know some would be would would

[00:28:11] want to know more because there are a lot of predatory shit that's out there it sounds too good

[00:28:17] to be true oh yeah that sounds too good to be true until you start to get deep into the actual

[00:28:23] data play and the understanding of you know how the how the monetization works and that's the big

[00:28:29] the big key so have you been talking to legislators about this and how long did it take for you

[00:28:37] to actually educate them for them to understand that this was not something that was bad for workers

[00:28:43] we've never charged it Claire fee for wage advance I think look when we talk to consumers many of

[00:28:49] them don't want Claire because it requires them to get a new bank account so consumers sometimes

[00:28:53] say hey like I just want this once I just want to pay three bucks and get it right now and it's

[00:28:56] the best thing so I get why as theoretically in the market this should exist and I think it's

[00:29:01] right thing for consumers we just for the future past years never charge a fee for for this because

[00:29:07] we're like we want to be a bank want to be a big financial institution in the future yay let's

[00:29:10] like let's go for this big dream right and when we talk to legislators we are very funny horse

[00:29:17] because we're like hey we went overboard on licenses I come with a truckload of them and I did

[00:29:23] I did all the work and by the way I've never charged a fee so they're like you never did the fee

[00:29:27] thing and you got all the licenses who decided this because it's like it doesn't make much sense but

[00:29:33] the reason why we did it and the reason why I think it makes a lot of sense is because it protects us

[00:29:38] from a compliance perspective and we're doing the right thing for consumers that's it I just don't

[00:29:42] want to deal with some states some days having a debate and now I need to go and like with everybody

[00:29:47] else in the group and go tell them why like I have other fish to fry I have a business to build

[00:29:51] so let me pay the bill once get all the licenses and then move on you had me at Chipotle

[00:30:02] oh that is nico simco everybody nico for our listeners who want to know more about you or the company

[00:30:09] where do you send them get claire.com that's g-e-t-c-l-a-r.com thanks and we'll let we'll let you

[00:30:17] get back to econ class we appreciate your time chat that's another one in the can we out we out

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