Happy Rebels in Recruitment with Rika Coppens

[00:00:00] Yo Chad, what if I told you there's a platform that could completely revolutionize your hiring

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[00:01:32] your recruiting instead of just writing poems and grocery lists.

[00:01:37] That is thiswayglobal.com.

[00:01:41] We out.

[00:01:42] Hide your kids, lock the doors.

[00:01:46] You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast.

[00:01:49] Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where

[00:01:53] it hurts.

[00:01:54] Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark.

[00:01:58] Buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese Podcast.

[00:02:03] Oh yeah, what's up everybody?

[00:02:09] It is Rutger Howard's favorite podcast.

[00:02:12] Wow.

[00:02:13] AKA the Chad and Cheese Podcast.

[00:02:16] I'm your cohost Joel Cheeseman.

[00:02:18] Joined as always, the red light to my district, Chad Sowash is in the house as we welcome

[00:02:23] Rika Coppens, CEO of House of HR to the show live from the eRecruitment conference

[00:02:31] in beautiful Amsterdam.

[00:02:35] Is it Amsterdam, Holland?

[00:02:36] Is it Amsterdam, the Netherlands?

[00:02:38] I don't even know exactly.

[00:02:39] Especially it's the Netherlands.

[00:02:40] Holland is a part of the Netherlands actually.

[00:02:41] So is it Amsterdam, the Netherlands?

[00:02:43] Yes.

[00:02:45] Rika, welcome to the podcast.

[00:02:47] Thank you so much for having me and thank you for being here at the eRecruitment Congress.

[00:02:51] Our pleasure.

[00:02:52] So some of our listeners won't know you.

[00:02:55] There's kind of a lot to introduce here.

[00:02:57] Introduce yourself, introduce House of HR quickly and introduce the congress that we

[00:03:02] are at currently.

[00:03:03] Okay, very good.

[00:03:04] Well, my name is Rika Coppens.

[00:03:05] I'm the CEO since 2017 of House of HR.

[00:03:09] I used to be a CFO and then I entered into this famous or infamous space of HR, which

[00:03:15] I really love.

[00:03:16] It's dealing with human beings and I think that's what we like at House of HR.

[00:03:22] When we talk about House of HR, we're a collection of 50 brands and companies all

[00:03:26] involved in the world of staffing or engineering and consulting.

[00:03:30] Very specialized, very focused on the candidate and customer experience.

[00:03:34] And we actually say HR stands for happy rebel.

[00:03:38] And that's what really sets us apart from everyone because we always try to do different

[00:03:43] stuff.

[00:03:44] We try to when everyone goes left, we want to go right.

[00:03:46] And that's a little bit the mentality we have.

[00:03:48] And I think it's in that context we're organizing this eRecruitment Congress for

[00:03:53] everyone.

[00:03:54] How big is the footprint now?

[00:03:55] So House of HR today we are at 3.4 billion euro revenues in Europe mostly in...

[00:04:01] Love the transparency.

[00:04:02] Hello.

[00:04:03] Love the transparency.

[00:04:04] Hello.

[00:04:05] I was talking about regionally.

[00:04:06] Like what countries you're talking about.

[00:04:07] If you want to talk money.

[00:04:08] She's dropping the big bomb.

[00:04:10] I love it.

[00:04:11] The CFO goes right to the dollars.

[00:04:13] But we're in Belgium, Holland, France, Germany and we also have branches in Spain,

[00:04:19] Portugal and also in Eastern European countries.

[00:04:22] Portugal.

[00:04:23] Yeah, very nice.

[00:04:24] So we're spread over there.

[00:04:26] And as I said, our revenue has grown quite quickly.

[00:04:28] We're now at 3.4 billion euros, but a lot more profitable than the big staffers

[00:04:33] because we do things specialized and we try to get close in terms of understanding candidates

[00:04:40] and customers needs.

[00:04:41] And I think that's really what sets us apart from everyone else.

[00:04:44] Well, that's one thing.

[00:04:45] But I think one of the things that you've taught Joel and I as we started this relationship

[00:04:49] is that there's a thing called a branded house.

[00:04:53] And then there's a house of brands.

[00:04:55] You guys are a house of brands.

[00:04:57] Indeed.

[00:04:58] Europe, that to me in what we've seen thus far just allows more of that natural state

[00:05:06] of being as opposed to getting kicked out like Stepstone got kicked out of France because

[00:05:11] they're a German brand and they went into France and like, no, get the hell out

[00:05:15] of there.

[00:05:16] You guys keep that brand.

[00:05:18] You keep the founders in many cases, the CEOs.

[00:05:20] I mean, there's really this culture that is much different than we see in the US

[00:05:25] where it's like bring everything under one brand.

[00:05:28] It's cheaper.

[00:05:29] It's more efficient.

[00:05:30] You guys have really figured that out.

[00:05:31] It's bullshit because that's actually one plus one is one strategy.

[00:05:34] That's what I call you pay a lot of money to buy a company.

[00:05:37] And then basically what you do is we buy goodwill on legs.

[00:05:41] The people run away.

[00:05:42] And so if the people don't like you as the acquirer of a company, which we

[00:05:46] see a lot, which is actually in most of the cases, what's exactly happening.

[00:05:51] You try to change the culture.

[00:05:52] You're forcing the culture down.

[00:05:54] You're forcing systems, IT systems, computer systems on people.

[00:05:58] They don't like it.

[00:05:59] They say everything was better in the old days.

[00:06:01] And then they run away and then they start up their own company.

[00:06:04] They talk to your customers and they run away.

[00:06:07] So that's what we try to prevent.

[00:06:09] And I think we're succeeding in that and trying the companies that we acquire.

[00:06:13] We're basically listening to them, asking them, what is it that you need from us?

[00:06:18] And then trying to help them with what they need from us and then make them

[00:06:22] grow in that way.

[00:06:24] I think it's a much stronger proposition for founders.

[00:06:26] The thing is that generally that whole idea, that paradigm, it's hard to keep

[00:06:33] ahead of, right?

[00:06:34] And you and the entire group are really focused on innovation.

[00:06:37] Yeah.

[00:06:37] So was that like the key to ensure that you don't get into atrophy and you

[00:06:42] don't just kind of like dwindle away, that you really focus on all

[00:06:46] brands as their own brand, but under House of HR and innovation is the

[00:06:51] biggest key.

[00:06:51] Innovation, obviously also we help them with administrative processes and

[00:06:55] support.

[00:06:56] But indeed innovation is one of the key things where we try especially to

[00:07:00] inspire each other because we're all more or less in the same business.

[00:07:04] We're all dealing with candidates.

[00:07:05] We're all dealing with customers.

[00:07:06] So the idea is really that the brands amongst themselves and the

[00:07:10] founders and the people in the different companies, in the different

[00:07:13] functions, they inspire each other.

[00:07:15] And then we exchange best practices.

[00:07:17] And from those best practices, that's where the innovation comes from

[00:07:21] because someone says, Oh, I have a great idea.

[00:07:23] And then the second thing, I think that I mentioned the happy rebel thing

[00:07:27] and it sounds like, oh, it's just one of those things that you shout out

[00:07:30] and blah, blah, but it's really a culture that lives inside House of

[00:07:34] HR.

[00:07:34] We love to destroy ourselves.

[00:07:36] It's really something that we constantly ask ourselves that what is

[00:07:40] it that can kill House of HR?

[00:07:42] What is it that can kill your brand?

[00:07:44] And that's how Nowjobs came about.

[00:07:46] Indeed.

[00:07:46] That's how we started Nowjobs.

[00:07:47] But actually, Nowjobs started in 2017 after asking that question, how to

[00:07:53] kill Accent, which was our first brand.

[00:07:55] And now we recently organized a workshop, How to Kill Nowjobs.

[00:07:58] So I mean, this thing is continuing.

[00:08:00] So really we're constantly trying to ask ourselves the question, what

[00:08:04] is our right of being here?

[00:08:06] And are we still entitled to exist as a company?

[00:08:09] And if not, then we need to try to invent something else.

[00:08:11] And I think this is also the spirit of the recruiting Congress is that

[00:08:16] we don't mind that competitors are here.

[00:08:19] Everyone is invited.

[00:08:20] We really give them insights in how we function and the technologies we

[00:08:24] use, and we really want everyone to know about it.

[00:08:27] And then probably it's also challenging us to continuously stay

[00:08:32] ahead of everyone else.

[00:08:33] Yeah.

[00:08:33] Separate brands, but there's unification in the Congress that we

[00:08:36] are currently attending.

[00:08:38] Why do the show?

[00:08:40] Why have other people come in that aren't part of House of HR?

[00:08:43] Competitors.

[00:08:44] Yeah.

[00:08:45] Just talk about the genesis of this conference, where you see it going in

[00:08:48] the future, because I've been, this is my third, third or fourth one.

[00:08:52] It's a, it's out of Belgium this year.

[00:08:54] So you're obviously growing, extending the brand.

[00:08:57] Why do it?

[00:08:58] And where's it going?

[00:08:59] Well, I think first of all, it's challenging ourselves, right?

[00:09:02] I mean, organizing this Congress, it's getting us really out of our

[00:09:05] comfort zone and we say that's where the magic happens.

[00:09:08] So getting ourselves out of our comfort zone, constantly having our eyes and

[00:09:12] ears open about what's happening in the HR and recruiting world, but also

[00:09:16] outside of the HR and recruiting world.

[00:09:18] What could be actually impacting our business that we see in other

[00:09:21] businesses and it's forcing us to keep our eyes and ears open so that we

[00:09:25] truly understand what's happening.

[00:09:27] And then inviting the best speakers to continue to challenge us, I

[00:09:30] think is the second thing.

[00:09:32] We like to be challenged by giving that knowledge also to competitors or

[00:09:36] people outside of House of HR.

[00:09:38] We know that they can also bring valuable ideas.

[00:09:41] And I mean, it's also a little bit about steal with pride.

[00:09:44] And so we don't mind also that it's better to steal good than to invent bad.

[00:09:49] And then, and then this is also helping us to achieve that.

[00:09:53] So we invite competitors.

[00:09:55] They also give us feedback and from that we learn again.

[00:09:58] So, and where's it going?

[00:09:59] Oh, that's a very good question.

[00:10:02] I think we're to the moon, to the moon and back.

[00:10:06] When's the American Congress?

[00:10:08] Oh, yeah.

[00:10:09] I think House of HR, we're a European based company still.

[00:10:12] So we're going to focus.

[00:10:14] I love her focus.

[00:10:15] Yeah.

[00:10:15] We're staying in Europe for the moment.

[00:10:17] I think there's plenty of opportunities in Europe still.

[00:10:20] We love the complexity of Europe in a way because the complexity of

[00:10:24] Europe is also helping us deliver better service and more value add to

[00:10:27] the customers, which leads also to our profitability.

[00:10:31] I think once we are satisfied with where we are in Europe, then maybe

[00:10:35] we'll make this step to the US.

[00:10:37] The trail of dead leading from Europe to America is not pretty.

[00:10:41] So she's paying attention.

[00:10:42] I know she is.

[00:10:44] So as we take a look at, as we take a look at Europe, right.

[00:10:47] And it is so different country by country, but also job by job.

[00:10:52] And we were just talking about being able to really engage with chatbots.

[00:10:58] Right.

[00:10:58] And you found that there was an area that you thought would

[00:11:01] actually work, but it didn't.

[00:11:02] So you're constantly trying new things out.

[00:11:05] Can you tell us about that?

[00:11:07] Yeah.

[00:11:07] So at some point we invested in a chatbot technology ourselves.

[00:11:11] It was five years ago and we launched it in our own companies.

[00:11:14] We sold it internally again, people had to buy it and they

[00:11:18] had to be motivated to use it.

[00:11:20] And the complexity was it was mostly for blue color roles that

[00:11:24] we use it with very simple questions with must haves and nice to haves.

[00:11:28] And so we got a feed of candidates and then the difficulty was first of

[00:11:32] all to reach the candidates because at some point, some of them filled out

[00:11:35] the questionnaire, but then when you said, okay, now we are going

[00:11:38] to schedule an interview, they were unreachable, impossible to get hold of.

[00:11:43] So that actually demotivated a lot of our recruiters.

[00:11:46] So the second step was, okay, let's not put it in the day to day operations.

[00:11:50] Let's put it in a separate digital cell whose only job is to contact

[00:11:55] the digitally generated candidates that we have and who can deal with

[00:11:59] the disappointment because it's kind of their role to deal with the

[00:12:02] disappointment and it's not interfering with their day to day operations

[00:12:06] where customers come in and what have you.

[00:12:08] So then they did it.

[00:12:09] We had slightly better results because they were more focused, but still

[00:12:13] they then did the interviews and then it was very difficult.

[00:12:16] And we still have that today to get the recruiters to have those

[00:12:19] pre-screened candidates to accept them as their candidates.

[00:12:23] And it's still one of the struggles that we have today is that you

[00:12:27] have pre-screened candidates that you get a fully filled out form, CV.

[00:12:32] All the skills are there.

[00:12:33] We say this is a top notch candidate.

[00:12:35] We then send it to the recruiter who does the matching with the customer.

[00:12:39] And still they feel it's not my candidates.

[00:12:41] And this is a human thing where you feel that there has to be this

[00:12:46] connection between the candidate and the recruiter before they are willing

[00:12:50] to take a leap of faith to present that candidate to the customer.

[00:12:54] And that's a human thing that we need to overcome.

[00:12:56] And that's something that we're really working very hard on to, to get

[00:12:59] that mentality change like, listen, this is a perfect candidate.

[00:13:03] We've done the screening for you.

[00:13:04] You can trust it.

[00:13:06] Please present it to your customers.

[00:13:08] So this is what was also today in some of the sessions AI.

[00:13:12] It's not only about the machine, but it's also about your organization

[00:13:16] and the mentality change that you need to get into people.

[00:13:20] Okay.

[00:13:21] Listener, how can you help your employees become more productive?

[00:13:25] I have answers.

[00:13:26] How about automating manual and repetitive tasks, giving meaning to data,

[00:13:32] then allowing that data to actually drive decisions.

[00:13:35] And how about matching people to your jobs quicker?

[00:13:39] Well, wait, the chat and cheese has a new LLM.

[00:13:43] No cheeseman.

[00:13:44] I'm talking about text kernel.

[00:13:46] Ah, okay.

[00:13:47] That makes more sense.

[00:13:49] What I'm hearing is the groundbreaking concept of wait for it.

[00:13:54] Yeah.

[00:13:54] Simplicity.

[00:13:56] Seriously though, seriously.

[00:13:58] Text kernel cuts through the complexities like a tortilla

[00:14:02] chip through some hot nacho cheese.

[00:14:05] Really?

[00:14:05] Not to references already anyways, text kernel brings efficiency and

[00:14:09] productivity to your operations.

[00:14:12] Text kernel seamlessly unifies your tools and data to drive

[00:14:17] efficiencies and success.

[00:14:19] Text kernel is creating new opportunities for your recruitment

[00:14:23] journey, kind of like adding guac to my barbacoa burrito.

[00:14:28] Oh my God.

[00:14:29] How about extracting meaningful insights from data?

[00:14:32] I mean, that's something swiftly matching people with jobs,

[00:14:36] automating repetitive tasks.

[00:14:38] Who knew such advanced concepts were even possible in the

[00:14:43] land of human resources.

[00:14:46] We did Chad.

[00:14:48] We did.

[00:14:48] Dude, wrap it up.

[00:14:50] I'm a little hungry.

[00:14:51] Imagine that.

[00:14:52] Okay, listener, get ready to use today's tech to drive efficiencies

[00:14:56] and productivity.

[00:14:57] Visit textkernel.com.

[00:15:00] That's T-E-X-T-K-E-R-N-E-L dot com.

[00:15:07] Nachos.

[00:15:11] So this to me sounds a lot like a marketing qualified lead that

[00:15:16] marketing would pass on to sales and sales will just eat up.

[00:15:19] They would say, that's mine.

[00:15:20] Right?

[00:15:21] Hot lead.

[00:15:21] But you're saying recruiters are like, oh, I'm not really sure about this.

[00:15:25] Really?

[00:15:26] See, that just tells the evolution that we need to go through in our

[00:15:29] industry and I think a lot has to do with education and demonstrating,

[00:15:33] Hey, other industries are doing this and they're kicking ass and

[00:15:37] taking names you could too.

[00:15:39] Yeah.

[00:15:39] So it's indeed, it's about education.

[00:15:41] It's about information and making sure that we show successes of this,

[00:15:46] what is in it for me, this is really things that we need to teach internally

[00:15:51] and that will lead to acceptance.

[00:15:53] And we're not there yet.

[00:15:53] And I think like it is with a lot of things, adoption sometimes

[00:15:57] with the chatbot, maybe we were just too early, right?

[00:16:00] It's like with coffee shops and fuel stations.

[00:16:03] BP started it in 2000.

[00:16:05] No one went to buy coffee in a fuel station today.

[00:16:08] Everyone does.

[00:16:09] Right.

[00:16:09] So it's also about acceptance.

[00:16:11] Like, okay, there's also good quality coffee now in fuel stations.

[00:16:14] No one trusted that.

[00:16:15] Just not sushi.

[00:16:16] Just not sushi.

[00:16:17] No, no, no, no.

[00:16:18] No fish.

[00:16:19] We might get there.

[00:16:19] We might get there.

[00:16:20] No fish.

[00:16:21] So we won't be expecting you to come to America anytime soon.

[00:16:25] Maybe vacation.

[00:16:26] We bring America to Europe.

[00:16:28] The American money is something that you are interested in.

[00:16:31] Bain Capital invested in you a year or two ago, I believe.

[00:16:36] What is that infusion of capital meant to you?

[00:16:39] I know acquisitions are looking at companies to take in your fold has

[00:16:43] been part of your focus.

[00:16:45] But what else has the capital meant to the business?

[00:16:48] I think Bain, first of all, comes with a lot of experience, right?

[00:16:50] So they know a lot about investments and they know a lot about how can

[00:16:54] you improve businesses and how can you also market your businesses better so

[00:16:58] that investors trust and believe in what you're doing and can take

[00:17:02] you to the next step.

[00:17:03] So I think this is the first thing they bring.

[00:17:05] They bring a lot of knowledge.

[00:17:06] They bring a lot of know-how of how things should be done in our

[00:17:10] business and how to present our company.

[00:17:12] Access to capital definitely is an important one because half of our

[00:17:16] growth historically has always come from organic growth and the other

[00:17:19] half from acquisitions.

[00:17:20] So helping us detect acquisitions, identify acquisitions that could fit

[00:17:25] the house of HR and then onboard those acquisitions.

[00:17:28] I think that's the second thing.

[00:17:29] And obviously also the financing that comes with it to continue

[00:17:32] the growth paths that we've been on.

[00:17:34] That's what they bring.

[00:17:36] So what has really blown your mind today?

[00:17:39] Anything?

[00:17:40] Takeaways.

[00:17:41] Takeaways.

[00:17:42] Takeaways.

[00:17:42] I think a lot of things you know, of course, but when it comes to AI in

[00:17:47] the sense that you have to be careful.

[00:17:48] There are things that you need to be in terms of bias and stuff like that.

[00:17:53] So we need to be careful with AI implementing it, especially

[00:17:56] when humans are involved.

[00:17:58] On the other hand, I think the main takeaway is things are moving very fast

[00:18:03] and the train has already left the station.

[00:18:08] And I think if as a company, especially in HR, if you haven't jumped on the train,

[00:18:13] there is a big chance that you'll miss it.

[00:18:15] And so we really need to think differently about how to incorporate

[00:18:18] AI technology in our day-to-day operations from an efficiency point of view,

[00:18:23] but also from a business model point of view.

[00:18:26] And I think we really need to speed things up because it will move very

[00:18:30] fast and it can change businesses rapidly, especially in our space.

[00:18:35] Talk about risk tolerance because I mean, you can take a lot of risk, right?

[00:18:39] And then fall down right in front of everybody.

[00:18:42] Yes, that's how innovators actually work.

[00:18:44] But your clients aren't innovating that fast, which is one of the

[00:18:47] reasons why they look toward you.

[00:18:50] How do you actually balance that risk tolerance piece, not just

[00:18:55] for yourself, but also for your clients?

[00:18:57] I think first of all, the advantage we have as House of HR is that we

[00:18:59] have so many brands, so we can experiment in a small corner and no

[00:19:03] one notices when we go flat face.

[00:19:05] So that's a big advantage.

[00:19:09] Second thing is also that we do have customers in a lot of different spaces

[00:19:14] and some are more advanced than others and some are more open to new stuff.

[00:19:19] So we try to identify those and it's always those early adopters that we

[00:19:23] try to work things out with and find out if they would be open to experiment

[00:19:27] with us and then the same for candidates, but that's also how NowJob started.

[00:19:31] Also a little bit fake it till you make it is how NowJob started.

[00:19:35] It looked like an app in the beginning and as if everything was done digitally,

[00:19:39] but in the background we had people riding bikes to put on the electricity.

[00:19:43] So you also have to experiment and be a real entrepreneur.

[00:19:47] And I think this is the biggest danger also for House of

[00:19:49] HR becoming bigger is that you try to do things too well.

[00:19:54] And if you try to set up an experiment, but all of a sudden

[00:19:58] you get security officers and you get programmers and architecture.

[00:20:02] Nothing gets done and you get paralyzed.

[00:20:04] And so we need to allow in House of HR in those small corners

[00:20:08] to really look at it in a very entrepreneurial way and say, like,

[00:20:12] how would a startup deal with this?

[00:20:13] Someone with no money?

[00:20:15] Yeah.

[00:20:15] How would they set this up and then start from there and then

[00:20:18] gradually learn and fail and learn and fail and then take it from there.

[00:20:23] Paralysis by analysis, I think is what they call that.

[00:20:27] In America, we're a little bit spoiled economically.

[00:20:31] And I want to get I want you to give the listeners

[00:20:32] a sense of the economy in Europe.

[00:20:35] Germany seems to be to be in recession.

[00:20:37] UK seems to be struggling.

[00:20:39] France, Italy down the line.

[00:20:42] Talk about the European economy from your point of view

[00:20:45] and how that's impacting the business.

[00:20:47] But Germany, I think, is one of the biggest engines of European economy.

[00:20:50] So the fact that they're struggling is trickling down

[00:20:53] in all the surrounding countries, especially also Belgium and Holland,

[00:20:57] who are mainly export countries towards Germany.

[00:21:00] I think France is doing not too bad.

[00:21:02] I think Macron has done quite a good job

[00:21:05] in getting France a little bit more liberalized in a way

[00:21:08] and making it a more industry friendly country.

[00:21:11] And you see, you said also in the balance

[00:21:13] terms of politics that where Merkel was really strong in Germany.

[00:21:17] Now with Merkel gone, you see that actually the power has shifted to France.

[00:21:22] So I think they're not doing too bad.

[00:21:23] From our point of view, the good thing is that given that we are

[00:21:26] in so many different businesses with so many different profiles,

[00:21:30] you can clearly see that high skilled white collar jobs,

[00:21:33] they are still going very strong.

[00:21:35] You still see the demand there.

[00:21:37] The scarcity of talent is still the main driver of demand

[00:21:41] and is still driving revenue.

[00:21:43] But you do see, especially in Germany,

[00:21:45] that's where we see the biggest struggle.

[00:21:47] I think the other countries, they are kind of it's not growing fast,

[00:21:51] but they're kind of getting through the recession calmly.

[00:21:55] But Germany is where we see the biggest struggle for the moment.

[00:21:58] And let's hope that as from Q2, Q3, we start to see also some recovery

[00:22:03] over there because that will hit us really bad again.

[00:22:06] The scarcity.

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[00:22:59] I think it will come back also with a.

[00:23:01] Is it an acquisition opportunity?

[00:23:03] Are you seeing companies strained and possible acquisitions?

[00:23:07] I think acquisition landscape is a bit slower, so there's a lot of companies

[00:23:12] preparing for sale,

[00:23:14] but I think most of them are a little bit in waiting mode to say, OK,

[00:23:19] what is 24 going to do?

[00:23:21] We had the elections in Holland at the end of last year.

[00:23:23] We now have elections in Belgium in June.

[00:23:27] There's the US election.

[00:23:28] So there is some uncertainty going on.

[00:23:30] And I think 24, therefore, there are a lot of companies preparing

[00:23:33] and they're kind of hoping that 20, 23 performance will continue to be there.

[00:23:37] And I think probably second half of this year we will see more companies

[00:23:41] again popping up.

[00:23:43] You'll let us know when those acquisitions.

[00:23:45] We'll definitely do that.

[00:23:46] How much of an impact does the presidential election

[00:23:49] in the US have on business here?

[00:23:53] Is there is there like pins and needles kind of waiting to see what the hell

[00:23:56] those idiots do across the pond or is it full steam ahead?

[00:23:59] The election is not the impact, right?

[00:24:01] I think it will be more who wins the election.

[00:24:04] That will give us an impact potentially in terms of what will be

[00:24:08] the attitude of the US versus Europe and how will,

[00:24:12] for example, the support be for Ukraine in terms of the war against Russia

[00:24:17] and how much uncertainty is that going to bring on Europe?

[00:24:19] I think that's going to be the biggest question mark post election

[00:24:22] and depending on who's winning it.

[00:24:25] Last Sunday, we had President Obama coming to Belgium.

[00:24:28] So there's a supernova innovation and tech conference going on there.

[00:24:33] And yeah, I think he's also a bit scared about what the December

[00:24:38] outcome could be in terms of the attitude towards Europe.

[00:24:42] And I think Europe has now finally maybe woken up a little bit more.

[00:24:46] I think we've been too naive in thinking that US support would be there eternally.

[00:24:51] And now, obviously, we need to speed up in terms of defense spending.

[00:24:56] But it's a lot of things going on at the same time, right?

[00:24:59] There is spending for defense.

[00:25:01] There's spending on climate neutrality.

[00:25:03] Pulling out of Russian oil.

[00:25:05] I mean, there's just so many different layers.

[00:25:07] So many things going on at the moment.

[00:25:09] America is here for you, Rika.

[00:25:11] America is here for you.

[00:25:12] At least these two Americans are.

[00:25:15] I know you'll advocate for us.

[00:25:16] American business is here for you, for sure.

[00:25:19] Very good.

[00:25:20] Curious your thoughts.

[00:25:21] This is a digital focus conference, innovation.

[00:25:24] And you guys obviously manage a lot of job sites and employment sites.

[00:25:29] How do you see innovation changing how job seekers find a job in the future?

[00:25:34] I really liked Bill this morning who said that it's not going to be

[00:25:38] job seekers finding jobs, but it's going to be jobs finding the job seekers.

[00:25:42] Yeah. And I firmly believe in that.

[00:25:44] I think that if you can get the right job to someone at the right moment,

[00:25:50] I think this is what we should focus on much more.

[00:25:52] And indeed, telling someone like we know what your next step should be

[00:25:57] and we can really help you build your career

[00:26:00] and give much more value to the candidates in that sense.

[00:26:03] I think this is going to be the way forward.

[00:26:05] So in a way, we should reverse job boards in the other way around

[00:26:09] and actually ask candidates more what job they would want to do

[00:26:13] instead of posting jobs and asking candidates to apply.

[00:26:17] So our listeners are aware of cardboard, Chad.

[00:26:21] You may not be, but our listeners are.

[00:26:23] Where's this going?

[00:26:23] And now and now we have digital twin leaving

[00:26:28] our listeners, no leaving.

[00:26:29] We got to meet digital twin leaving.

[00:26:32] He speaks very good English.

[00:26:33] Yes, his English is impeccable.

[00:26:36] I'm not sure where my line of questioning goes other than

[00:26:39] will digital even haunt your dreams going forward?

[00:26:42] You will mine.

[00:26:43] All right.

[00:26:43] Oh, Jesus.

[00:26:45] Like thoughts on digital leaving.

[00:26:47] Should we expect more of him in digital format?

[00:26:50] Well, I think it was that his idea or yours.

[00:26:53] It was actually my idea.

[00:26:55] Because I said no one to blame but you.

[00:26:57] It would be great to have a digital avatar on stage and people could ask questions.

[00:27:01] And you notice it wasn't her, though.

[00:27:04] Yeah, even go do this.

[00:27:05] Yeah, she knows how to spread the wealth like it's not about me.

[00:27:09] It's about you guys.

[00:27:10] So but because of legislation, actually, we said it's probably not yet

[00:27:16] a good idea to have a digital avatar somewhere out there without having

[00:27:21] any certainty what it can be used for.

[00:27:23] Yeah. And the digital avatar is somewhere on a platform.

[00:27:26] And we don't know whoever gets that avatar in hands,

[00:27:29] what they could do with it and what they could make me say at some point.

[00:27:32] So I said, it's probably not a good idea if it's me.

[00:27:35] So then Levi said, you know what?

[00:27:36] I'm already out there.

[00:27:37] I'll you can abuse me.

[00:27:39] And so happy to be abused.

[00:27:42] And so that's what we did.

[00:27:44] I know there's a lot of things going on and I truly believe that intellectual

[00:27:47] property around digital avatars is something that should come into place

[00:27:51] really quickly rather sooner than later.

[00:27:53] I know this Belgian guy, Chris Ume, who participated in America's Got Talent.

[00:27:58] He was this Belgian guy who did.

[00:28:01] What's the guy's name in the jury?

[00:28:03] Simon Cowell is the only one I know.

[00:28:05] That's the one. That's the one.

[00:28:06] Simon Cowell and Howie Mandel is the other one.

[00:28:09] And Heidi Klum, they were at some point on stage

[00:28:11] because he created their digital avatar.

[00:28:14] And so that was the spectacle.

[00:28:15] But he's working now with his company on putting an IP

[00:28:20] legislation in place so that avatars actually belong to you as a person.

[00:28:25] And then everyone who's trying to use your avatar has to pay money.

[00:28:27] Got to pay. Got to pay.

[00:28:29] So you mentioned Amsterdam is your favorite European city.

[00:28:33] What is your favorite thing to do in Amsterdam?

[00:28:35] My favorite thing to do in Amsterdam?

[00:28:39] It's a good question, actually.

[00:28:40] I think it's just stroll in the nine streets.

[00:28:43] There is this area here, this neighborhood, which is called the nine streets.

[00:28:47] And it's really gorgeous.

[00:28:48] It has nice shops, but it also has a very nice atmosphere.

[00:28:52] And you're strolling along the canals.

[00:28:54] And that's that's my favorite thing to do.

[00:28:56] It's amazing.

[00:28:57] Chad and I will be in the red light district.

[00:28:59] You can be on the nine streets or whatever that is.

[00:29:02] That's another one in the can.

[00:29:04] Rika Coppens, for those that want to know more about you

[00:29:07] or connect to the company, where do you send them?

[00:29:09] Well, you can go on my LinkedIn.

[00:29:11] I always respond to respond to all the messages you send me.

[00:29:14] So it's just Rika Coppens, House of HR.

[00:29:16] And my email address is rika.coppens at house of HR dot com.

[00:29:20] There you go. Mention Chad and cheese.

[00:29:22] That's another one in the can. We out.

[00:29:26] Thank you for listening to what's it called?

[00:29:29] A podcast, the Chad, the cheese.

[00:29:32] Brilliant. They talk about recruiting.

[00:29:35] They talk about technology.

[00:29:37] But most of all, they talk about nothing.

[00:29:40] Just a lot of shout outs of people you don't even know.

[00:29:43] And yet you're listening.

[00:29:44] It's incredible.

[00:29:46] And not one word about cheese, but one cheddar,

[00:29:50] blue, nacho, pepper Jack, Swiss.

[00:29:54] So many cheeses and not one word.

[00:29:58] So weird. Anywho, be sure to subscribe today on iTunes,

[00:30:03] Spotify, Google Play or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

[00:30:08] That way, you won't miss an episode.

[00:30:10] And while you're at it, visit

[00:30:12] www dot Chad cheese dot com.

[00:30:16] Just don't expect to find any recipes for grilled cheese.

[00:30:21] It's so weird. We out.

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