Europe's Job and Talent's Growth in the US Market

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[00:00:24] Gacching!

[00:00:25] Hi there kids, block the doors.

[00:00:32] You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast.

[00:00:35] Chad Soosh and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts.

[00:00:41] Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark.

[00:00:45] Buckle up boys and girls.

[00:00:46] It's time for the Chad and Cheese Podcasts.

[00:00:50] Oh yeah, three guys forever suffering from a total eclipse of the heart.

[00:00:55] You're listening to the Chad and Cheese Podcast as Europe.

[00:00:58] I'm your co-host Joel Düsseldorf, Cheeseman.

[00:01:01] This is Chad, turn around, bright eyes, so wash.

[00:01:05] And I'm leaving nuts and trusted in your stupid eclipse.

[00:01:08] Funny when I was in it.

[00:01:09] And on this episode, Job and Talent goes west.

[00:01:13] OrgNostic gets amped up.

[00:01:15] And final thoughts from the e-recruitment conference.

[00:01:19] Let's do this.

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[00:02:28] Was it because you were not in the path of totality?

[00:02:31] He was left out.

[00:02:32] Leaving? Are you jealous? Were you left out?

[00:02:35] I kept staring at the sun. I didn't see one eclipse at all.

[00:02:38] So it was fake news. Snow eclipse doesn't exist.

[00:02:42] You pulled a Trump instead of the sun all day.

[00:02:45] It's not healthy, Leven. Not healthy.

[00:02:48] Yeah, I read about it indeed.

[00:02:51] The glasses were too woke for Trump or something.

[00:02:54] You shouldn't wear them.

[00:02:55] I have a theory that you and Kebu were hanging out in Finland.

[00:02:58] That's my theory.

[00:03:01] I think in Finland, that's still dark.

[00:03:03] Watching the Northern Lights or something.

[00:03:05] Yeah, he's leaving us now your stupid eclipse.

[00:03:09] Bitter today.

[00:03:11] So we've got like Chad's on the cusp of Euro Chad.

[00:03:15] He's like on Cloud9, riding high.

[00:03:18] Also neon Chad, see this?

[00:03:20] Yeah, it's nice. I didn't even see it.

[00:03:22] Freshly shorn Chad.

[00:03:25] Yeah, and Leven's in all black as usual.

[00:03:28] As usual.

[00:03:29] That says Navy Blue. I said it before.

[00:03:32] Midnight Blue.

[00:03:34] He's still auditioning for sprockets.

[00:03:36] What is sprockets?

[00:03:39] Do I want to know what sprocket is?

[00:03:41] You don't know sprockets?

[00:03:43] I don't know.

[00:03:44] I don't know if you can get SNL clips on YouTube out in Europe.

[00:03:47] I think you can.

[00:03:49] Touch my monkey.

[00:03:51] Sprockets, SNL from the 90s.

[00:03:54] Most definitely not Stasher monkey.

[00:03:56] Old German.

[00:03:58] Chad, what you got?

[00:04:00] I'm going to give a shout out to European wages.

[00:04:03] And this is what I mean.

[00:04:05] So a study came out and showed pretty much what every European

[00:04:10] country was getting paid, you know, from top to bottom.

[00:04:13] Not going to go through all of those.

[00:04:15] Actually I want to compare them to the US.

[00:04:18] Luxembourg is 47, 47 euros, 20 per hour.

[00:04:24] Wow.

[00:04:26] Party Luxembourg, baby.

[00:04:28] 47, 20. Yes, it's an average.

[00:04:30] Just an average.

[00:04:31] And then the highest paid state in the United States

[00:04:34] is, and I did today's conversion, is 34, 25 euro.

[00:04:41] So we're talking about a pretty huge discrepancy.

[00:04:44] 47, 20 to 35, 25.

[00:04:47] Those are the highs in both.

[00:04:49] So there are five European countries that are above

[00:04:52] Massachusetts salary per hour rate.

[00:04:55] Belgium being one of those, leaving, there are 10 European

[00:05:00] countries that are above 30 euro salary per hour or

[00:05:05] dollars per hour rate, which is $32 an hour for all you Americans

[00:05:10] that are listening.

[00:05:11] Taxatrucits is the highest.

[00:05:13] Taxatrucits.

[00:05:14] Taxatrucits.

[00:05:15] Getting paid.

[00:05:17] I'm going to take that shout out into the gutter with my next

[00:05:21] shout out.

[00:05:22] So Chad, you and I grew up in the 70s and I'm going to assume

[00:05:27] at least at one truck stop in your, in your years.

[00:05:30] Jesus, sticky for a few.

[00:05:32] If you were in a truck stop gas station bathroom in the 70s

[00:05:37] and you were a child, you got some sex ed.

[00:05:40] You got the coin slotted French tickler.

[00:05:44] You learned that had to be ribbed for her pleasure.

[00:05:48] French tickler.

[00:05:49] Those are gone.

[00:05:50] I haven't seen any of those for decades.

[00:05:53] But thankfully Germany, these coins, these coin operated sex

[00:05:58] machines are still a thing.

[00:06:00] So, so let me, let me read you some of the products in a German.

[00:06:05] I think this was Dusseldorf that I was visiting.

[00:06:08] You've got, you've got the Billy boy, which is a condom, I

[00:06:12] think you've got the love ring vibro.

[00:06:14] Of course.

[00:06:15] That's a classic.

[00:06:16] I don't know if the batteries come with it or you

[00:06:18] got to like put the batteries in separately but that was

[00:06:20] fun.

[00:06:21] You had a minute.

[00:06:22] You just moved my hands.

[00:06:24] Mini vibrator.

[00:06:25] And you had the, I'll mispronounce this but the D

[00:06:29] Kuhnstische Stieke vagina, which is the travel vagina.

[00:06:34] So, oh, okay.

[00:06:35] It's a party in a German bathroom.

[00:06:38] I didn't have to go to a truck stop for this.

[00:06:40] It was just in a regular city square bathroom.

[00:06:43] So shout out to the Deutschland bathrooms.

[00:06:46] Lot of fun.

[00:06:47] Yeah.

[00:06:48] You don't see that in Puritanic America.

[00:06:49] I used to back when America was great.

[00:06:51] You could have the French tickler.

[00:06:53] Only in truck stops.

[00:06:55] Only in truck stops.

[00:06:57] The hubs of commercial, commercial success.

[00:07:00] Truck stops.

[00:07:01] Top that one, Leven.

[00:07:03] I've never seen them.

[00:07:04] So I think I don't frequent the places you do, Joe.

[00:07:07] Not even one in, one in Dusseldorf now.

[00:07:10] But I don't feel like I'm missing a lot.

[00:07:13] Don't play coy with me, Leven.

[00:07:15] Okay, okay.

[00:07:16] I'll have to admit that I have one in my room.

[00:07:18] I'm in a tree house in his backyard telling me I...

[00:07:21] That's right.

[00:07:22] In fact, it's a tree mansion.

[00:07:24] We call it the tree mansion because the houses are so common.

[00:07:28] Okay, the house of commons, you know.

[00:07:30] Anyways, Chad, you were talking about those wages.

[00:07:35] Did you know in Belgium we have something called the automatic wage indexing system?

[00:07:41] Did not.

[00:07:42] This is actually pretty cool.

[00:07:43] At the moment, the life cost is increasing than the wages are indexed automatically.

[00:07:48] So people in Belgium will always have the same buying power.

[00:07:53] That was the whole idea.

[00:07:54] So at the moment there's some kind of a price index and when, let's say you go to the grocery store

[00:07:59] and you put all these things in your baskets.

[00:08:02] The moment the price on average is going above a certain limit, everyone's wages are indexed by 5%, 3%, whatever.

[00:08:11] So last year we had to index prices, sorry, wages 5 times in one year.

[00:08:17] Wow.

[00:08:18] Because everything was getting so expensive because of the crisis in Ukraine and people got a salary raise 5 times in one year.

[00:08:26] It's pretty impressive.

[00:08:28] So that's why we have the highest wages I think in Europe next to Luxembourg, which isn't the country at all.

[00:08:35] So they don't account for it.

[00:08:38] But that's why I'm just happy to educate you American bumpkins.

[00:08:42] Thank you so much.

[00:08:43] You're welcome, you're welcome.

[00:08:45] Okay, my shout out goes to the German unions for the first time in my life.

[00:08:49] I'm giving a shout out to the unions.

[00:08:51] And why?

[00:08:52] Because they were the first to get on the barricades and defend robots rights to take a day off.

[00:08:58] And this actually is a fact.

[00:09:00] So the German court rules, robots must take Sundays off.

[00:09:04] You are so dumb, you are really dumb for real.

[00:09:08] So the union fundamentally opposes Sunday shopping, arguing that retail stuff needs Sunday as a guaranteed day off to spend time with family and friends.

[00:09:17] And there was a retailer in Germany who had a totally automated mini shop chain.

[00:09:23] He hadn't, no one was working for him at all.

[00:09:26] And he had to close down his automated shops on Sunday because of the robots.

[00:09:32] So he had to, they needed the day off too.

[00:09:35] And the union triggers the whole little battle and the court followed it.

[00:09:39] So shout out to the unions for protecting the rights of the robots.

[00:09:44] That's right.

[00:09:45] And then on Sundays you can't even get a maintained because nobody's allowed to work.

[00:09:49] So I mean, you know, it'd be different if you could have maintenance on that day.

[00:09:53] No, if you run out of coke in the autumn and the vending machine, then nobody's allowed to put a new one in.

[00:09:59] Yeah.

[00:10:00] I wonder what they do with the bakeries on Sunday.

[00:10:04] Probably it's allowed.

[00:10:05] Yeah, I would hope.

[00:10:06] Should be.

[00:10:07] I would hope.

[00:10:08] We all need a good croissant.

[00:10:09] Yeah, of course.

[00:10:10] But not in Germany.

[00:10:11] You got Kaiser Brez.

[00:10:13] Kaiser Brez, yeah.

[00:10:14] What do you think Scotland will do about the robots?

[00:10:16] Chad, anything?

[00:10:19] They'll abuse them probably.

[00:10:21] Yeah, whatever it is, I'm sure it'll be amazing.

[00:10:24] Yeah.

[00:10:25] Welcome to all things Scottish.

[00:10:27] Our slogan is if it's no Scottish, it's Crap!

[00:10:30] So some quick travel.

[00:10:32] We just got back from Amsterdam not too long ago, but Chad and I will be headed to Scotland in May for a little

[00:10:37] scotch slash interview slash exciting conversations with exciting Scott Scottish startups.

[00:10:45] And then don't forget, Reckfest in July.

[00:10:49] That's right.

[00:10:50] There allegedly a cold cheese man spotting will be year number two in the making.

[00:10:56] Our equipment pack mule.

[00:10:57] Yes.

[00:10:58] And sneak in chugs of beer while I'm not looking.

[00:11:02] Beer?

[00:11:03] More like whiskey.

[00:11:04] He was drinking everything.

[00:11:06] They're listening, Chad.

[00:11:07] They're listening.

[00:11:08] They're listening, Chad.

[00:11:09] Don't say anything.

[00:11:12] All right, kids.

[00:11:18] Job and talent experienced substantial growth in the U.S.

[00:11:22] market in 2023.

[00:11:23] Revenue came in at $450 million.

[00:11:27] That's a 22% increase year on year and the U.S.

[00:11:30] became the company's largest and fastest growing market as well as its most profitable

[00:11:36] in 2024.

[00:11:37] In 2024, Job and Talent plans to further expand its market share in the U.S.

[00:11:42] by rolling out a revamped product suite aiming to transform the interactions between

[00:11:47] businesses and workers.

[00:11:49] Chad, your thoughts on the growth of Job and Talent?

[00:11:52] Well, Joel, I've got to bring up that back in May of 2022.

[00:11:56] You pondered whether Job and Talent would be all in on the U.S.

[00:12:00] regional strategy and then, you know, leave and laugh at us because they were

[00:12:05] considered a region or if they were just playing a little game of just the tip.

[00:12:10] I think we can say that they're all in.

[00:12:12] There's no question.

[00:12:13] But you also said that coming to America would be a disaster for them.

[00:12:18] It hasn't seemed to turn out that way.

[00:12:20] The U.S.

[00:12:21] job market right now is booming in all the shift work arenas, which is

[00:12:25] exactly where Job and Talent plays.

[00:12:27] I've said it on several podcasts prior to this one, not just about Job

[00:12:31] and Talent, but the staffing company industry that or the staffing company

[00:12:35] that Uber rises shift work wins.

[00:12:38] Job and Talent is still small and start up enough to be nimble while the

[00:12:43] Adecos and Ronstads are way too slow and lethargic.

[00:12:47] They just can't do something like this.

[00:12:50] They're just way too damn big.

[00:12:52] But what Uber is doing for rides and eats, Job and Talent is doing

[00:12:58] for a multitude of different jobs and where Job and Talent are flourishing

[00:13:02] is around high volume jobs.

[00:13:05] So if you're in need of a new gig or just some extra cash, you can search

[00:13:10] for jobs near you, which everybody does on Google, review the hourly rate,

[00:13:16] watch videos of the tasks you're going to be performing at that job

[00:13:20] and then apply.

[00:13:21] And as it says on the website, quote, no resume required.

[00:13:26] Just answer some simple questions in our app and get the job.

[00:13:32] Plus you get paid in the damn app.

[00:13:34] So this is the future of shift work and Job and Talent announcement

[00:13:39] of 22% year over year growth last year and generating 450 million

[00:13:44] in revenue feels like just the start.

[00:13:47] I'm waiting to see which companies try to buy these guys and or emulate

[00:13:52] because I mean, this is big kudos.

[00:13:56] Not many companies come to the U.S. and do well.

[00:14:00] You even see companies who are already in the U.S.

[00:14:03] like job.com who said they want to do this and they're having

[00:14:07] problems rumor mill says even making payroll right now.

[00:14:12] Yeah, big kudos to Job and Talent.

[00:14:14] 450 mill.

[00:14:15] You're going to call me out like that on the podcast chat.

[00:14:18] That's not cool.

[00:14:19] That's not cool.

[00:14:20] It says all about history.

[00:14:21] That's history.

[00:14:22] Yeah, so look so far so good.

[00:14:25] And when you get a what a million three billion, one point three

[00:14:29] billion dollars in investment, you should be able to grow and come

[00:14:33] to a new country.

[00:14:34] These guys have been around since 2009.

[00:14:36] You've got organic growth and you've got immense investment into

[00:14:40] this company.

[00:14:41] So you kind of have the best of both worlds there for them, which

[00:14:44] is nice.

[00:14:45] The thing that they did right though is that this country needs

[00:14:50] hourly workers and gig workers.

[00:14:53] 76 million workers were paid on hourly rates last year.

[00:14:57] That's a lot of people.

[00:14:58] That's a lot of people.

[00:15:00] Yes.

[00:15:01] And whether they knew this or not coming in, it's an election

[00:15:04] year and it's looking like whichever party gets in, there's

[00:15:08] going to be a border thing.

[00:15:10] There's going to be a closing or deportation depending on who

[00:15:14] gets in.

[00:15:15] And you know what that means?

[00:15:16] That means even fewer workers than there already are to do

[00:15:20] hourly positions.

[00:15:22] So job and talent, whether they plan this or not politically

[00:15:25] is an incredibly good spot because we're ready to like

[00:15:29] shut down or slow down the immigration, which means

[00:15:32] companies are going to pay a shit ton of money to find

[00:15:35] and hire hourly workers, gig workers, et cetera.

[00:15:38] So they're not even in every state yet.

[00:15:41] They're going to roll this thing out.

[00:15:42] They've got money to advertise.

[00:15:44] I think they're going to go full steam ahead on marketing

[00:15:46] this thing.

[00:15:47] The name kind of sucks, frankly.

[00:15:50] So they need to market this thing to build a brand around

[00:15:53] it.

[00:15:54] But yeah, this is blue skies in part because the

[00:15:56] investment in part because 76 million people in this

[00:15:59] country are hourly workers and politically we're setting

[00:16:02] this thing up on a silver platter for job and talent

[00:16:06] to crush the U.S. market.

[00:16:08] So congratulations, Chad and calling me out on the show

[00:16:11] and congratulations to job and talent who looks like

[00:16:14] they're going to do really well.

[00:16:16] What is a question is there's like what's up with

[00:16:19] Zip Recruiter?

[00:16:20] This is their sweet spot.

[00:16:22] Dude, I just told you it's the tech, the tech that

[00:16:25] they're doing.

[00:16:26] Maybe it's the tech.

[00:16:27] Yeah, it's the tech.

[00:16:28] It's when you're a worker and you can just literally

[00:16:31] you can go in and you can pick your shifts and you

[00:16:34] can and you can even go to another warehouse or if

[00:16:38] you're a nurse, if you're a nurse and you want to get

[00:16:41] some more money at the hospital down the road,

[00:16:43] you can do that.

[00:16:44] You can't do that shit with Zip Recruiter.

[00:16:46] Yeah.

[00:16:47] And I know that Leven and his people are looking at

[00:16:50] this kind of stuff too.

[00:16:51] Let Leven talk.

[00:16:52] You guys are hot into tech.

[00:16:54] So talk about this, man.

[00:16:55] Your thoughts on job and talent?

[00:16:57] It's really easy.

[00:16:58] I mean they're just lying.

[00:16:59] It's not true.

[00:17:00] I don't believe it.

[00:17:01] I mean they're not making 450 million in the US.

[00:17:05] That's all fake news.

[00:17:06] Really?

[00:17:07] I don't know.

[00:17:08] I can't imagine, in fact.

[00:17:10] But no, but seriously, I mean if that's true then

[00:17:14] of course it's true.

[00:17:15] I'm sure it's true.

[00:17:16] But that's pretty spectacular.

[00:17:19] But I wonder that they buy a company in the US

[00:17:21] that they didn't start from scratch.

[00:17:24] I can't imagine they built 450 million dollars

[00:17:27] and two years from scratch.

[00:17:29] Yes.

[00:17:30] I mean they've been acquiring staffing companies

[00:17:32] but I don't think they have like they were in Europe.

[00:17:36] Like they bought Norway for God's sakes.

[00:17:38] We talked about that one show.

[00:17:40] But they haven't.

[00:17:41] But the thing is rolling those organizations,

[00:17:45] those staffing organizations into this tech

[00:17:47] as like their operating system.

[00:17:50] And we talked about this with Job.com.

[00:17:52] That is the way forward.

[00:17:53] But Job.com fumbled the ball.

[00:17:56] It seems like these guys might actually

[00:17:58] have a better day on.

[00:17:59] Yeah, but we looked into them really good

[00:18:02] and they're not that digital as they claim to be.

[00:18:04] I mean it's a sure way that they claim to be

[00:18:07] a digital platform but behind the scene

[00:18:09] there are tons of people actually doing the work.

[00:18:11] So it's not that digital as anyways.

[00:18:14] 450 million is impressive and my congratulations to them.

[00:18:17] And now next question.

[00:18:18] Don't believe it.

[00:18:19] I don't believe it.

[00:18:20] You don't believe it.

[00:18:21] Don't believe it.

[00:18:22] Okay.

[00:18:23] Well, next.

[00:18:24] No, no, no.

[00:18:25] I was in views on the show kids.

[00:18:26] That's why we do the show

[00:18:27] and we're not even.

[00:18:28] I think they bought revenue.

[00:18:30] They bought revenue.

[00:18:31] They didn't start using their platform from scratch.

[00:18:33] They just started from,

[00:18:34] they had a big investor and they bought something

[00:18:37] and that's easier.

[00:18:38] It's never easy but it's easier.

[00:18:40] 60% of the time it works every time.

[00:18:44] Maybe I can say on some culture amp news.

[00:18:48] Culture Amp and Employee Experience platform

[00:18:51] has announced its acquisition of Orgnostic,

[00:18:54] an Caribbean people analytics company.

[00:18:57] Orgnostics helps enterprise organizations to identify

[00:19:00] actionable insights from sources of people data.

[00:19:04] The acquisition will allow culture amp to integrate

[00:19:06] Orgnostics data engineering and people insights

[00:19:09] into its platform, promising to provide customers

[00:19:12] with accessible and multi-dimensional people analytics.

[00:19:16] The product is expected to be available

[00:19:18] in the second half of 2024.

[00:19:21] You'll get lots of thoughts on the Orgnostics acquisition.

[00:19:25] Well, unless Job and Talent is buying underneath

[00:19:28] another company, I only see,

[00:19:30] I don't see any acquisitions since they've come

[00:19:32] to the United States.

[00:19:33] Now on the Culture Amp,

[00:19:35] I'm looking on Crunchbase.

[00:19:37] I'm looking on Crunchbase.

[00:19:39] You had me interested.

[00:19:41] It was very interesting.

[00:19:43] Culture Amp, so Employee Experience matters

[00:19:46] but only after companies were smacked

[00:19:49] in the face with the great resignation.

[00:19:52] Productivity dropped,

[00:19:53] and overpriced CEOs had to start making excuses

[00:19:57] to their boards about margins shrinking.

[00:20:00] Then big data matters after GPUs

[00:20:03] and processing speeds allowed large language models

[00:20:06] to start training on massive amounts of data.

[00:20:09] All of this, you take a look at what they're doing

[00:20:12] at Culture Amp, much like I think Job and Talent,

[00:20:15] they've found a wave that nobody was really writing on

[00:20:19] or even waiting on.

[00:20:21] This is around culture.

[00:20:23] This is around employee experience

[00:20:26] but also performance management and employee development.

[00:20:31] Those products are necessary

[00:20:33] because if you are an employee,

[00:20:35] you got to know what your path is forward.

[00:20:38] I think that's pretty smart.

[00:20:40] Now it's a wave, again,

[00:20:42] that I think it's smart to ride,

[00:20:44] but much like DEIB,

[00:20:46] I don't believe companies are going to ride this forever.

[00:20:49] Culture Amp needs to make some noise

[00:20:51] and sell to a much bigger player

[00:20:54] in the talent ecosystem within the next 24 months

[00:20:58] because I don't think this wave is going to stick around.

[00:21:01] Another one.

[00:21:03] First of all, they need to get rid of the Orgnostic brand

[00:21:06] because it's awful.

[00:21:08] That's easy.

[00:21:10] Culture Amp needs to go away in the next six months for sure.

[00:21:13] Back to Culture Amp,

[00:21:15] which I'm no expert on,

[00:21:18] but I know that they've been around a while

[00:21:20] and I know that they were a very important product

[00:21:23] when sites didn't talk to each other.

[00:21:26] Databases didn't interact with each other.

[00:21:28] Everything was disparate

[00:21:30] and Culture Amp, everything you did in Culture Amp

[00:21:32] was in that.

[00:21:34] Now you have a world where everything talks to each other.

[00:21:37] You have a huge number of storage models now

[00:21:40] interacting with each other.

[00:21:42] Culture Amp needed something to say,

[00:21:44] okay, we're going to be your sort of walled garden

[00:21:47] employee engagement system,

[00:21:49] your upskilling system.

[00:21:51] We'll do it all for you.

[00:21:53] There are so many more companies now

[00:21:55] and products and services that put those pieces elsewhere.

[00:21:58] Orgnostic, as I understand it,

[00:22:00] will bring all your ATSs,

[00:22:02] all your SaaS products together

[00:22:04] and put that data into Culture Amp.

[00:22:06] So now Culture Amp can start speaking the language

[00:22:08] of all these other services that are out there.

[00:22:10] So in theory, it should work really well.

[00:22:12] Historically, those are pretty hard to pull off.

[00:22:15] And frankly, if you look at Orgnostic's executive team,

[00:22:19] it looks like a rock band from the 70s

[00:22:22] who reunited for one last tour.

[00:22:24] I don't have a lot of faith that this is going to work out,

[00:22:27] but I know a few people at Culture Amp,

[00:22:29] they're pretty smart folks.

[00:22:31] Hopefully they can figure out.

[00:22:33] I think that's probably the one that makes a lot of sense.

[00:22:35] In practice, I wouldn't put any money on it.

[00:22:37] We'll see what happens.

[00:22:39] I do have to say though,

[00:22:41] we just talked to Jason Corsello over at Acadian

[00:22:44] and we asked him what was the biggest miss he's had

[00:22:47] in He Said Culture Amp.

[00:22:49] I thought that was interesting.

[00:22:51] That interview is going to come out later, kids.

[00:22:53] Don't worry.

[00:22:55] And that's misses and didn't invest and wished he had.

[00:22:58] I totally agree with Joel about the name.

[00:23:01] Orgnostic, or what's it?

[00:23:03] Orgasmic.

[00:23:05] Orgnostic.

[00:23:07] It's like agnostic but then agnostic.

[00:23:09] Difficult name.

[00:23:11] They're from Serbia.

[00:23:13] And Serbia is one of the few European countries I've never been.

[00:23:17] Which says it all.

[00:23:19] But I must say,

[00:23:22] I didn't know Culture Amp to be honest.

[00:23:25] I can't say much about these kind of tools

[00:23:27] because I'm into recruitment, into marketing, digital marketing,

[00:23:30] but I'm not really familiar with HR and analytics platforms.

[00:23:33] That's after the recruitment part,

[00:23:36] and that's another business.

[00:23:38] But it's not because I have a lack of knowledge

[00:23:41] that I don't have an opinion, of course.

[00:23:43] So I'll be happy to share it.

[00:23:45] But I checked our Culture Amp websites

[00:23:47] and they claim we get the employee engagement,

[00:23:49] performance and development tools and insights

[00:23:51] you need to build a category defining culture.

[00:23:54] I have no idea what a category defining culture is,

[00:23:57] but I think we want one.

[00:23:59] But I afterwards looked at the Orgnostic approach

[00:24:02] and at first I must say I was a bit skeptical

[00:24:04] and it's like another HR data dashboard.

[00:24:06] But their Generator VI demo is really impressive.

[00:24:09] It's the best I've seen so far.

[00:24:11] And it's like they put their own GPT on top of the Power BI,

[00:24:15] HR dashboard, whatever.

[00:24:17] And then it actually works.

[00:24:19] And you can ask lots of stupid questions

[00:24:21] and it comes up with great answers

[00:24:23] without the hassle you normally have to go through

[00:24:26] to gather all the data and put it into charts, etc.

[00:24:30] It does a great job.

[00:24:31] So I can imagine if you're a big company

[00:24:33] and you have lots of data

[00:24:34] and you need to prepare something for, let's say,

[00:24:36] board meeting, this is a blessing.

[00:24:38] This is amazing.

[00:24:40] And I think this actually is a very good buy.

[00:24:43] So if this was a buyer or seller,

[00:24:45] we'd be happily buying.

[00:24:46] Okay.

[00:24:47] Question, even as you talk about business intelligence

[00:24:50] going into a platform like this,

[00:24:54] as we take a look at Gemini and then Google has Looker,

[00:24:58] which is a great way to really visualize data.

[00:25:03] Do you think this space is going to get commoditized

[00:25:06] because a company like Google,

[00:25:08] using large language models like Gemini,

[00:25:11] will actually just own it?

[00:25:13] Well, you have a few companies able to do it.

[00:25:16] So you have ChatGPT, OpenAI,

[00:25:18] you have Gemini, Google, you have all the others.

[00:25:21] Let's say four or five maybe, which are up-standard now.

[00:25:25] It will be, how do you call it?

[00:25:27] Commoditized.

[00:25:29] Yeah, it's a difficult word.

[00:25:31] Commoditized sounds good.

[00:25:32] I need to use that word more often.

[00:25:34] Impress your European friends.

[00:25:37] Yeah, of course.

[00:25:39] No, no, I'm sure.

[00:25:40] And I'm already building this kind of GPTs for our own usage.

[00:25:45] But I'm sure if someone who actually knows what he's doing,

[00:25:47] it's not difficult to make one,

[00:25:49] but it's probably very difficult to make the best one.

[00:25:51] So I'm sure we're going to see great commoditations.

[00:25:56] How do you say it?

[00:25:58] Well, you know, but I'm definitely sure this is a big business

[00:26:02] and this is one to follow.

[00:26:04] And actually the first one I saw,

[00:26:06] which was really convincing was this one.

[00:26:08] So Orgnostic is a company to follow.

[00:26:11] Leavin loves orgasm.

[00:26:13] I mean, Orgnostic.

[00:26:14] Yeah, Orgnostics.

[00:26:16] What are you doing?

[00:26:18] Orgnastic.

[00:26:19] We'll be right back.

[00:26:48] Celebrate recruitment and join Fiji at FYGI.nl.

[00:26:55] Kebu!

[00:26:56] Oh, that means...

[00:26:59] This is when he thought Kebu was gone.

[00:27:01] The conference was over.

[00:27:03] Oh no, no, no.

[00:27:05] There it is, there it is.

[00:27:07] All right, Leavin.

[00:27:09] Listeners know that we had your conference recently

[00:27:12] in Amsterdam.

[00:27:14] You look like you've recovered nicely.

[00:27:16] The surveys are in, the opinions are in.

[00:27:19] Let's talk about the conference.

[00:27:21] What were your takeaways?

[00:27:22] What were some of the survey data?

[00:27:24] What you got?

[00:27:26] Okay, how do we have...

[00:27:29] So maybe the most important number,

[00:27:31] if you want, we sent a survey to the participants.

[00:27:34] About 30% actually filled in the survey,

[00:27:37] which is good.

[00:27:39] And on average, they scored the whole event 82%,

[00:27:43] which is good.

[00:27:44] People are pretty critical,

[00:27:46] critical to the survey, right?

[00:27:48] 80% is good.

[00:27:50] There were, of course, they were whining

[00:27:52] about the quality of the food,

[00:27:54] which mostly were the Belgian participants.

[00:27:56] That wasn't me.

[00:27:57] No, no, no, you just ate it all.

[00:27:59] Until I found out Chipotle...

[00:28:01] Chipotle's not in Amsterdam.

[00:28:03] Other than that, I was a little upset

[00:28:05] until I realized that.

[00:28:06] So how many people showed up?

[00:28:08] It was a full house.

[00:28:09] 470...

[00:28:11] 570 something, yeah.

[00:28:13] Something like that.

[00:28:14] It was a full house indeed, yeah.

[00:28:15] This thing can grow.

[00:28:16] I mean, I told you,

[00:28:17] I think there's no reason why it can't be

[00:28:19] a lot more people, a lot more sponsors.

[00:28:21] A real commercial profit.

[00:28:22] I know, but it's your American view.

[00:28:24] We like it's cozy.

[00:28:26] And I know you think,

[00:28:27] why don't you make it bigger?

[00:28:29] And then my question would be,

[00:28:30] why should I make it bigger?

[00:28:31] I'm not into it for the money,

[00:28:33] we're just...

[00:28:34] It's all show-off, you know,

[00:28:35] talk leadership.

[00:28:36] But also it's fun.

[00:28:37] It's sharing knowledge.

[00:28:39] It's a lot of fun.

[00:28:40] But in fact, you're right.

[00:28:42] If you put some effort in it,

[00:28:44] this could definitely be bigger.

[00:28:46] But we're still focusing on the quality of the speakers.

[00:28:48] And we don't focus on sponsors, for example.

[00:28:51] I mean, Bullhorn was there,

[00:28:53] and I think they were pretty happy.

[00:28:55] And Vong was there,

[00:28:56] and some other sponsors.

[00:28:58] But it's not like I made five calls

[00:29:01] to companies,

[00:29:02] would you like to sponsor us?

[00:29:03] Yeah.

[00:29:04] We're not into it for the business.

[00:29:05] We're not into organizing conferences

[00:29:07] to make money.

[00:29:08] It's about speakers.

[00:29:09] So, European.

[00:29:10] I have the Luck House of HR is my main sponsor.

[00:29:12] So, our main sponsor, we're organizing it.

[00:29:14] So, they provide the money I need

[00:29:17] to get the best speakers.

[00:29:19] I mean, we could even hire you.

[00:29:21] Chad and she's flying over from the United States

[00:29:23] to Amsterdam just...

[00:29:24] That's $5.

[00:29:25] I know, I know, I know.

[00:29:27] And we have a balcony again in everything.

[00:29:30] Yeah.

[00:29:31] This setup was amazing, by the way.

[00:29:33] This venue and this setup was amazing.

[00:29:37] And having Kei Buu come out after lunch,

[00:29:42] when everybody just got done eating.

[00:29:45] You know, you get into the after lunch

[00:29:47] kind of, you know, sleepy phase.

[00:29:50] Oh no.

[00:29:51] Oh no.

[00:29:52] Not when Kei Buu comes out.

[00:29:53] Oh no.

[00:29:54] Yeah.

[00:29:55] Kei Buu rolls.

[00:29:56] So, for those of you who don't know Kei Buu

[00:29:59] and I can imagine some of you

[00:30:01] never heard about him.

[00:30:02] Oh, come on everyone, there's Kei Buu at this point.

[00:30:03] I know they should.

[00:30:04] My god, they should.

[00:30:05] Favorite son.

[00:30:06] Kei Buu.

[00:30:07] Kei Buu.

[00:30:08] Kei Buu.

[00:30:09] Synthesizer God.

[00:30:10] It's like Van Gaelis and Jean-Michel Jacques,

[00:30:14] but better.

[00:30:15] But anyways, he was there.

[00:30:18] He was there.

[00:30:19] And he gave a big performance.

[00:30:21] And after the whole Congress,

[00:30:23] he gave his whole start of the European tour,

[00:30:26] which is sold out by the way.

[00:30:28] But it was fun.

[00:30:29] Then I'm not going to get in too much detail

[00:30:32] about all the keynotes and what they said.

[00:30:34] I think it's a good thing to have a document

[00:30:37] with the three key takeaways from all speakers.

[00:30:40] I shared it on LinkedIn.

[00:30:41] You can find it somewhere.

[00:30:42] You might have to put some effort in it, but...

[00:30:45] Would you be okay if I gave some of my takeaways?

[00:30:48] Sure, definitely.

[00:30:49] So the first thing is always the question

[00:30:52] when we talk about AI automation,

[00:30:54] people ask are we in for a world with fewer recruiters?

[00:30:59] And keynotes are very good about dancing around,

[00:31:02] saying, no, we'll still need lots of recruiters.

[00:31:05] And they always look so uncomfortable talking about that.

[00:31:08] I think that it's okay to come to the realization

[00:31:11] that the world will need fewer recruiters

[00:31:14] as we evolve this technology.

[00:31:17] That doesn't mean recruiters are gone

[00:31:19] and the ones we have will be kick-ass

[00:31:21] and really, really good at what they do.

[00:31:23] But the dancing around we're not going to lose recruiters,

[00:31:25] I think is just false and we should stop doing that.

[00:31:29] The second thing I took away,

[00:31:31] the comment of people will stop looking for jobs

[00:31:34] and jobs will start looking for people

[00:31:36] or jobs will start finding people.

[00:31:38] That was one of Boorman's takeaways

[00:31:41] or my takeaway from his session.

[00:31:43] That stuck with me.

[00:31:45] And I think that the thought of a co-pilot,

[00:31:48] which also came out, I think in the questioning,

[00:31:50] the Q&A that Chad and I did with Bill

[00:31:53] was that people will have these co-pilots

[00:31:55] and they will find restaurants for you

[00:31:57] and they will find the cheapest hotel for you

[00:32:00] and they will also potentially find the best job for you.

[00:32:03] So a world with these co-pilots that do the work,

[00:32:06] I think is something that we should keep our eye on.

[00:32:09] And lastly, Hilki, who we've interviewed on the show,

[00:32:12] New York Times reporter talked about bias in AI

[00:32:17] and the testing that goes on.

[00:32:19] She really sort of crystallized or encapsulated

[00:32:24] exactly the craziness that goes on in some of these tests.

[00:32:28] I mean, like pushing the space bar

[00:32:30] and seeing how fast you can do it

[00:32:32] as some sort of prerequisite to getting hired

[00:32:35] is really not just dumb.

[00:32:37] It's also incredibly prejudice against people

[00:32:40] that might have disabilities

[00:32:42] that make it harder for them to push the space bar

[00:32:45] if they can push it at all in some cases.

[00:32:47] So to me, that was super eye-opening

[00:32:49] but those were a couple takeaways

[00:32:51] that I had from the conference.

[00:32:53] Being in Europe, the point of view is refreshing

[00:32:57] that you look at the world as a little bit different

[00:32:59] and that's always refreshing for me as well.

[00:33:02] Yeah, I think the biggest thing for me was convergence.

[00:33:05] I mean, what we were talking about 10 years in the U.S.

[00:33:09] was not being talked about in Europe.

[00:33:13] It felt like two entirely different ecosystems

[00:33:16] but today I feel like they are becoming one

[00:33:19] and everybody understands that obviously,

[00:33:23] you know, we have turned into a global economy

[00:33:26] but we haven't acted like it.

[00:33:28] It almost feels like on both sides of the pond

[00:33:31] that we're starting to see this convergence

[00:33:34] of what is important and what we're leaning towards.

[00:33:37] So that was amazing.

[00:33:39] I just love going to this conference,

[00:33:41] mainly because of that piece so that we can learn.

[00:33:45] In this case, you know, from the Dutch

[00:33:47] that were all around us but also from the Belgians

[00:33:50] who took a train in.

[00:33:52] And I agree with what you said about Hilikam.

[00:33:55] She said something and she actually proved it,

[00:33:58] something I always suspected

[00:34:00] that most of those HR tools are just full of shit.

[00:34:03] So they claim they're measuring all kinds of metrics

[00:34:06] and they give you a score and they do the matching, etc.

[00:34:10] It's just bullshit and she tested it

[00:34:12] and a tool measuring or figuring out how your English skills were.

[00:34:18] She spoke German to it and she got a 70.5% English

[00:34:22] and she confronted the makers of the tool

[00:34:25] with this ridiculous results

[00:34:27] and they said, yeah, but it's about how convincing you sound

[00:34:30] even in German, something like that.

[00:34:32] So that's indeed that's bullshit.

[00:34:34] That's something HR has to be always aware of

[00:34:38] that they can be scammed and they will be.

[00:34:42] But we have some very interesting...

[00:34:45] I always liked John Norton as well

[00:34:47] from Staffing Industry Analyst.

[00:34:49] He gave a great presentation

[00:34:51] on how AI is impacting already our business

[00:34:54] and I'm talking about the staffing industry.

[00:34:56] Some others are really interesting as well.

[00:34:58] So even though it's my Congress

[00:35:00] and I'm probably biased also

[00:35:02] and Hilik is constantly telling us not to be biased

[00:35:05] but I liked that it was good.

[00:35:08] You should be there next year.

[00:35:10] Are we doing it in Amsterdam in the same place next year?

[00:35:12] That's the question.

[00:35:14] Come on, don't tease us.

[00:35:16] But Joel constantly tells me I have to make it bigger

[00:35:18] so then we need a bigger location.

[00:35:20] Since when do you or anybody listens to me?

[00:35:23] Jesus. Jesus.

[00:35:25] All I gotta say is I'm just happy

[00:35:27] you didn't punch us both in the face

[00:35:29] when we went out and we wouldn't stop saying

[00:35:31] I ain't leaving!

[00:35:34] While drinking Red Bull and Jaeger bombs.

[00:35:38] Yeah, yeah. I'm 15 Belgian beers.

[00:35:42] Well let's hope it's not the last sound bite

[00:35:44] that we hear from Kebu on this show.

[00:35:47] Everybody enjoyed it

[00:35:49] as usual.

[00:35:51] We out. We out.

[00:35:54] Wow, look at you.

[00:35:56] You made it through an entire episode of the chat and chase podcast

[00:35:59] or maybe you cheated and fast forwarded to the end.

[00:36:03] Either way, there's no doubt you wish you had that time back.

[00:36:07] Valuable time you could have used to buy a nutritious meal at Taco Bell.

[00:36:12] Enjoy a pour of your favorite whiskey

[00:36:15] or just watch Big Booty Latinas and Bug Fights on TikTok.

[00:36:21] No, you hung out with these two chuggle heads instead.

[00:36:25] Now go take a shower and wash off all the guilt

[00:36:29] but save some soap because you'll be back.

[00:36:33] Like an awful trainwreck, you can't look away

[00:36:37] and like Chad's favorite Western,

[00:36:40] you can't quit them either.

[00:36:42] We out.

[00:36:45] We've got questions. We've got answers.

[00:36:48] Business leadership, ownership and sales can be challenging.

[00:36:52] Tune in to the Accelerate Your Business Growth podcast

[00:36:55] to learn from the world's experts.

[00:36:58] Join me, your host, Diane Helbig,

[00:37:01] as I chat with people who have expertise

[00:37:03] in various areas of business.

[00:37:05] You'll enjoy the lively conversations that are focused

[00:37:08] on providing you with the ideas, tips and suggestions

[00:37:12] you need to realize greater success.

[00:37:15] Get what you need for your business,

[00:37:17] when you need it, from the people who have the answers.

[00:37:20] Accelerate Your Business Growth is part of the Evergreen Podcast Network

[00:37:24] and is available on Apple, Spotify or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.