Mastering the Art of Corporate Narratives

[00:00:14] Hello everyone and welcome to Reputation Matters, a show about corporates and leaders, how they face crisis, how they deal with them and the lessons for all of us from these episodes. My guest as always, my expert as always Meetu Samar, founder and CEO Eminence Strategy Consulting. Meetu, welcome to the show. Thank you as always for doing this for our audience. Pleasure. Today's episode is very special because it deals with a very important concept which is narrative. Okay, I remember in the good old days and for me good old days, narrative used to be a very important concept which is narrative. Okay, I remember in the good old days and for me good old days, narrative used to be a very important concept which is narrative.

[00:00:44] It used to be about narration and stories and books and everywhere. And there was a time when companies would handle their quote unquote narratives through their own departments could be a PR agency, corporate communication or their own leaders and CEOs giving interviews to the press, mostly one way. Now it's become two way. I want to start this episode, if you could help our audience understand what does the word narrative mean in today's age and how it is different from say, when you

[00:01:14] you started your career. So, like you rightly pointed out, narrative is basically the story that you tell. And stories really resonate with people. We also still remember the stories that we would have either read as kids or our grandparents or parents would have told us. So stories are something that sticks to our memory and hence a lot of brands or even personalities, they develop a story around them, which may or may not be real, but they

[00:01:44] do create, so to say a narrative. So they do create, so to say a narrative. And, you know, then, like again, you pointed out there, variety of ways through which they deliver this narrative through their PR team, through their brand team or marketing initiatives, even otherwise like their annual report or now their social media platforms and so on. So narrative literally is a story or a key message that any company or an individual wants to give away.

[00:02:14] about themselves. Now, how they are different today is in earlier days, a lot of it used to be one way. And there were conversations happening back and forth even then, but the frequency and the volume today has multiplied significantly. And that has created, so to say, the need to press on that urgency button.

[00:02:41] So it's become important for personalities and also companies to recognize this, that what is the way the world is perceiving them, what is the story about them that is being told or even received. And then how is the whole, you know, the complete package is being perceived eventually.

[00:03:03] So it's very interesting if in the old times, a company used to advertise and how the products were received was a narrative, maybe some news interviews here and there. But today's day and age has become two way, where the users have a very significant say in the product.

[00:03:21] And you can look upon it in various products across the board, someone doesn't like a flight, they take on the airlines in social media, someone doesn't like the food doesn't like the coffee.

[00:03:30] And they take up the issue on social media and that itself creates a narrative because the user has given his feedback first and then when the company responds to it, and how that story unfolds, story, image, that social media.

[00:03:44] Let's take a concrete example of how an episode on narrative played out in social media in the past.

[00:03:53] Bhavish Agrawal of Ola versus Kunal Kamara, one of the most famous stand up comedians in India.

[00:03:58] So one find a Kunal Kamara post about certain issues about Ola and Bhavish stands up for its product and they both, it just develops into a fight on social media that went on for some time, much to everybody's, you know, depending on who you are, on whose side you are, taking a stand on that.

[00:04:15] Tell us what happened and your view on that.

[00:04:18] So again, you've already covered the fact that, you know, there was this whole spat between them.

[00:04:24] So I'm taking it forward from there.

[00:04:26] Now, it's a very common practice that if you're popular, there will be, you know, detractors in your life.

[00:04:35] As a personality who should be concerned about his or her reputation, one has to know that you don't have to respond to every message that is coming your way.

[00:04:48] One has to know when to filter, what to filter.

[00:04:52] Additionally, these leaders also have their business implications and business responsibilities.

[00:04:59] So the focus largely is on the business front.

[00:05:03] Now, what happened in this case is not that, not only that they got into this pad, which has become enough and more got written about it.

[00:05:12] So I'm not going to get into details about who's right, who's wrong, etc.

[00:05:17] But what I want to give away, since the messages are for the leaders and how should they protect their reputation,

[00:05:23] what I would like to highlight is that you have to know when to respond.

[00:05:30] You have to also know when to, you know, exercise restraint.

[00:05:35] And, you know, that whole balance is extremely important because in an episode like this,

[00:05:43] you not only wasted time engaging with somebody who did not even contribute one bit to your business.

[00:05:50] Additionally, you got a show cause notice.

[00:05:53] Your company got a show cause notice and you got embroiled into, again, the regulatory conversation.

[00:05:59] So which is a, it takes you away from your core work, which is handling your business.

[00:06:04] So that's a very important learning.

[00:06:07] Any leader needs to have that, what should be their focus?

[00:06:12] Talking about, you know, is this just one episode contributes to a poor reputation of the leader or the organization?

[00:06:21] The answer is no.

[00:06:23] But as they say,

[00:06:26] So every small, small episode, that contributes to a bigger picture.

[00:06:32] And there have been time and again, variety of, you know, examples and episodes that have been,

[00:06:42] that have become part of the public narration or public conversation,

[00:06:46] which showcases that it's a repeated behavior of a leader.

[00:06:50] And this is dangerous, that one has to be very mindful of how one short term mistake,

[00:06:59] if repeatedly done, then it is looked upon as a habit.

[00:07:04] And then that contributes negatively to your reputation.

[00:07:07] So it's very, very critical to be mindful of your conduct and especially your conduct in the public space.

[00:07:15] Let's go into short term versus long term.

[00:07:19] You made a very interesting point about how a repeated pattern of incidents then creates its own narrative,

[00:07:26] its own story versus the bigger picture of the company, its product and its image that it has out there.

[00:07:31] So these spats, these incidents, these episodes, they happen on one fine day,

[00:07:37] they'll occupy what's called the news cycle and they're over.

[00:07:40] The company has to continue for the longer term.

[00:07:42] So that's how the image is built.

[00:07:44] That's how the story is built.

[00:07:45] How do you differentiate between handling the short term versus being focused on the long term?

[00:07:49] Who controls the narrative, so to say?

[00:07:51] So very critical that again, we all need to know what is our focus, right?

[00:07:57] If it if our focus is just to build a perception about ourselves,

[00:08:02] then you will be very careful about this day to day in and out.

[00:08:05] If your focus is to build a business, which then has an impact on the society,

[00:08:11] then your focus, then your actions and your energies are diverted towards that business.

[00:08:18] And you don't get drawn towards the negative conversation that continuously keeps happening.

[00:08:25] Having said that, am I saying that don't pay attention to any negative messages that are coming your way?

[00:08:33] You must, but use that as an input to improve your, you know, possibly in this case, customer experience,

[00:08:42] than getting into justifying your stance in the public space.

[00:08:47] Right.

[00:08:47] So like we work with, again, a lot of corporates, particularly B2C companies,

[00:08:53] where Twitter or other X now is used as a platform to just, just complain to the company that how their services are poor.

[00:09:03] So much so, Anupam, that in some cases, we have advised the company to stop their X channel.

[00:09:11] Right.

[00:09:12] Because all one does is addressing customer complaint there.

[00:09:18] Right.

[00:09:18] So it's just not that I'm saying that one should block a channel of customer complaint.

[00:09:23] There are enough and more channels.

[00:09:24] They can complain through their website.

[00:09:26] There are other social media platforms where one is available.

[00:09:30] They can write to the company.

[00:09:32] There are enough and more still public ways of addressing this.

[00:09:36] But the negative flow of conversation keeps coming.

[00:09:42] The leader has to decide, do they need to really pay attention to?

[00:09:47] Imagine in this case, if it was not Kunal Kamra, suppose it was any random customer who would have complained.

[00:09:56] Would Bhavish have responded exactly the same way that he did?

[00:10:00] So you have to treat detractors as real detractors and stay focused on your purpose.

[00:10:06] And maybe one lesson here is for the startups, because after all, Ola is in many ways one of the most storied startups in India versus established companies.

[00:10:16] And to my mind, something like a Tata Motors comes up when the Indica was launched.

[00:10:22] The euphoria that was there at the launch versus what happened when the product did not perform as expected and how the company came back.

[00:10:30] What I'm saying is this.

[00:10:31] Over a long enough time for a large company, they get chances to shape the narrative.

[00:10:36] For startups, I don't know.

[00:10:38] Maybe, you know, if they get it wrong at the start, maybe they don't get second chance.

[00:10:41] Or do you think that there's always a second chance to learn from mistakes and shape the narrative yourself as a company,

[00:10:49] irrespective of whether you're a startup or you're a large company with a long history?

[00:10:53] What do you think?

[00:10:54] Second chances.

[00:10:54] What do you think?

[00:10:55] We human beings have finite life.

[00:10:58] Companies don't have a finite life, right?

[00:11:00] They're supposed to live as long as possible, right?

[00:11:04] What JRD Tata, when he set up Tata, did he know that there will be so many generations after generations leading it?

[00:11:12] They possibly may not have a defined moment at his head or defined tenure in his head during that time.

[00:11:20] But even though he would have visualized it that way, but the reality has actually played out in a long-term manner.

[00:11:29] Will this be true for a lot of startups today?

[00:11:32] Why not?

[00:11:33] Right?

[00:11:33] That's the vision with which we all start companies, right?

[00:11:36] A lot of people do it from the legacy perspective.

[00:11:39] We do it from the long-term perspective.

[00:11:42] I don't think any of us, like when we take birth, we know at max we are going to live 60, 70, 80, 100 years.

[00:11:49] But when we set up companies, we think it's going to live forever.

[00:11:53] In such cases, why will you not get a second chance?

[00:11:57] You will certainly get a second chance.

[00:11:59] But as a representative of that organization, the leaders have to be mindful that they are carrying a very, very high amount of responsibility.

[00:12:12] That their conduct is also not just going to shape the narrative of their personal perceptions and reputations, but also going to have a reflection on the organization.

[00:12:24] So, and while they may have a finite life, the organization is not going to have so.

[00:12:30] So, very important for them to know that, again, to be watchful of their conduct and also know that fine, so far, for whatever reason, this is the reputation that either me or my organization is carrying.

[00:12:46] Going forward, how can I shape it?

[00:12:50] And there are enough and more examples in India, worldwide, where people have consciously shaped a narrative about them.

[00:12:57] Let's deal with those examples that you spoke of, Meethu.

[00:13:00] What about the international brands or leaders or companies that you feel have a very good narrative or have a very good image or who work towards building their reputation and it has worked really well for them?

[00:13:12] My favorite example is Alfred Nobel.

[00:13:16] Do you know, so the Nobel Peace Prize and all, so we all know of…

[00:13:22] The Nobel Prize.

[00:13:22] The Nobel Prize, so to say, right?

[00:13:25] Do you know what was his background or what business was he into?

[00:13:29] I just know dynamite.

[00:13:30] Exactly.

[00:13:31] So, he invented dynamite and he earned supernormal profits from his business of arms and ammunitions.

[00:13:40] So, that was him.

[00:13:41] Yeah.

[00:13:42] But what the world knows about him is the fact that he has contributed towards the humanitarian acts.

[00:13:50] He is known for peace.

[00:13:51] He is known for life instead of being known for war and death.

[00:13:57] So, that's a conscious work he did towards, you know, shaping a narrative about him.

[00:14:05] Once I was reading something very interesting, Anupam.

[00:14:09] A French newspaper actually accidentally published his obituary and it called him the merchant of death.

[00:14:18] And when he read this, of course, may not have gone down well with him.

[00:14:23] Plus, he got alarmed generally about the negative perception that was going towards his name.

[00:14:28] So, he consciously worked towards reshaping that whole narrative and invested heavily towards philanthropic initiatives.

[00:14:38] And today what the world knows him for is the whole set of prizes.

[00:14:44] Precisely.

[00:14:44] Peace prize, economics prize, literature, physics and so on and so forth.

[00:14:48] But, yeah.

[00:14:49] We know him for the prizes that go towards activities that promote humanitarian initiatives.

[00:14:57] So, it's a beautiful journey.

[00:15:00] Sure.

[00:15:01] And I think this is one of my favorite examples.

[00:15:06] Another interesting one that comes to my mind is John Rockefeller.

[00:15:12] Right?

[00:15:12] So, again, very popular businessman in the oil and gas industry.

[00:15:19] He was accused for, you know, monopolistic practices.

[00:15:23] He was, again, given a moniker like Robber Baron or something like that.

[00:15:32] So, that's the kind of reality he was dealing with.

[00:15:36] And then he worked towards reshaping his reputation, so to say.

[00:15:42] And, again, invested heavily into philanthropic initiatives, invested heavily into investments towards the causes that contribute to the wellness of the society.

[00:15:56] So, today the whole concept like impact investing and strategic giving are all the concepts that he brought to life.

[00:16:04] Right?

[00:16:04] So, you see something that you did and you did for many years.

[00:16:09] So, long term, you know, it was good.

[00:16:14] But, being conscious of it, taking stock of it, note of it and then moving towards the other direction.

[00:16:22] Andrew Carnegie is another interesting example that is now crossing my mind.

[00:16:26] The founder of Carnegie Mellon University.

[00:16:29] Again, a steel magnate known for harsh labor practices.

[00:16:35] And the way he has shaped narrative about himself.

[00:16:38] Today we think the world of education.

[00:16:40] His contributions are so celebrated.

[00:16:43] So, there are enough and more examples, Anupam.

[00:16:46] And the point that we must remember is if we take stock of situations, if there is a conscious effort towards building our reputation, a lot can be done and achieved.

[00:17:01] Indian examples make it more relevant for our audience out there.

[00:17:05] There too my favorite, Ratan Tata.

[00:17:07] Obviously.

[00:17:07] Everybody's, I guess.

[00:17:10] But, possibly today's generation may not relate to it as much.

[00:17:14] But in late 90s or, you know, during those times when he had taken over and he had become a slightly more public personality.

[00:17:24] All I recall, in those days, of course, I was not a part of corporate world.

[00:17:29] I was a student then.

[00:17:31] So, we were not very conscious of what narrative that is getting shaped in the corporate world.

[00:17:37] But whatever I heard from my parents talking or people in general talking, reading newspapers, everybody, people said he is incompetent and, you know, not really what Mr. Roosimodi or JRD, you know.

[00:17:52] Stepping into very large shoes.

[00:17:54] Correct.

[00:17:54] Maybe that were too big for him at that point of time.

[00:17:58] Precisely.

[00:17:59] And coincidentally, I am married to a man who belongs to Jamshedpur.

[00:18:03] So, I have seen this whole, you know, this whole acceptance towards him building in a very brick by brick, step by step manner.

[00:18:15] I recall him being completely written off for even trying to get into commercial vehicle and, you know, light vehicle space.

[00:18:26] And today, Jaguar…

[00:18:27] The Passingjaka story also.

[00:18:28] Good idea.

[00:18:29] And today, you see, they are coming up with best designs.

[00:18:32] I am quite impressed by the curves design also, the electric vehicle.

[00:18:38] But having said the Tata, setting Tata Morta story aside, the way he came across from somebody who was labeled not so competent and, again, trying to fill into shoes which are too large for him, all of that,

[00:18:57] to a man who we all saw in the recent past when, unfortunately, he passed away, that everybody literally, you know, looked upon him, so to say, like a godlike figure.

[00:19:13] Right?

[00:19:14] So, that's the journey one takes.

[00:19:16] And it cannot be taken overnight.

[00:19:18] It is a journey of real long term.

[00:19:24] Another favorite example that I have is that of our Prime Minister, Mr. Narendra Modi.

[00:19:31] Yeah.

[00:19:31] Again, if you recall, decades ago, he was labeled as insensitive, not caring for people.

[00:19:42] The whole Godra episode, so much was talked about it around him.

[00:19:47] From there, the whole concept around this whole Swachh Bharat mission or as Indians, we feel that we are getting a place on the table in the global arena.

[00:20:00] A lot is attributed to him for his contribution.

[00:20:04] So, and again, his simple thing is his communication skills itself.

[00:20:10] Again, I recall that whole very famous episode with Karan Thapar, right?

[00:20:17] He walked out of the interview.

[00:20:18] He walked out of the interview.

[00:20:20] From there to a later interview that he did with Arnab, where Arnab was asking him questions and he was giving his own replies.

[00:20:29] And Arnab told him that, you know, I'm asking you questions and you're not responding to me.

[00:20:35] And he says that, see, you have a channel that runs 24 hours.

[00:20:39] And I have messages that I need to communicate with my audience.

[00:20:43] I have limited time.

[00:20:45] So, I will share with you what I am here to share with for the larger purpose of the audience.

[00:20:52] Now, by citing this example, I'm not trying to say that one should just go on and on and be a broadcast machine and keep talking about himself or his vision or the work that he or she has done.

[00:21:07] But more importantly, having that control, A, knowing your narrative and then having a control over it and the way you deliver it.

[00:21:16] A combination of the three really is significantly important.

[00:21:21] Yeah. So, after these examples, let's just wrap up the episode with key takeaways for our audience.

[00:21:28] How, you know, how does a company whose reputation depends on the narrative, how does he own the narrative, so to say?

[00:21:36] Because this is, like you said, it's a company that's going to survive for a very long period of time.

[00:21:40] Someone who posts on social media, he's going to post and vanish.

[00:21:43] It's going to have its news cycle.

[00:21:45] It's going to get over.

[00:21:46] But how does a company control the narrative, if A, if at all it's possible?

[00:21:52] If it is, then how does one do it?

[00:21:54] Objectives, tips, strategies, anything?

[00:21:58] Three simple steps.

[00:21:59] Number one, you must know your story.

[00:22:03] What is it that you want the world to know about you?

[00:22:07] Right?

[00:22:08] So, your, so to say, narrative.

[00:22:10] That has to be followed by your why.

[00:22:14] Why you want the world to know this about you?

[00:22:17] Follow that up with why should the world believe in this?

[00:22:21] Right?

[00:22:21] So, it's a very good combination of what you believe that you're great at,

[00:22:26] but whether others see you that way or not.

[00:22:31] And how can that happen without action?

[00:22:33] Right?

[00:22:34] So, that why has to be very ably supported by right actions around your why.

[00:22:43] And finally, so basically what I mean is that your what should be backed by your proof points.

[00:22:51] That, you know, why should I believe in you?

[00:22:53] Sure.

[00:22:54] And that then comes to the third step.

[00:22:57] Has to be told to the larger audience that this is what I'm doing, this is where I am.

[00:23:04] And not just once, not just twice, but multiple times.

[00:23:09] Because there is, like I said right at the beginning, there's so huge flow of information.

[00:23:15] Volume and frequency are crazy.

[00:23:17] So, in that, chances of your narrative getting lost is very, very high.

[00:23:24] So, very consciously, you need to know your story.

[00:23:28] You need to know your proof points.

[00:23:30] And then communicate that story along with proof points consistently over a long period of time.

[00:23:38] And if done well, highly likely that you will be able to shape the perception about you and shape your reputation the way you would like it to be.

[00:23:51] Yeah, I want to end this episode, Meethu, with maybe a live example.

[00:23:56] Let's say that, let's say one of the most common grouses, so to say, that happened on social media.

[00:24:02] And say you're the reputation agency advising a CEO or your client on this.

[00:24:06] Okay.

[00:24:06] So, I'm a user on Twitter, on X.

[00:24:09] My flight is late and I just keep on cribbing.

[00:24:12] Maybe it gathers some social media, some traction and it flares up into something.

[00:24:16] You know, maybe that there's been a few more incidents of the flight being late.

[00:24:21] Okay.

[00:24:22] And customers being affected.

[00:24:23] I'm adding to that.

[00:24:25] And now you're the brand.

[00:24:27] Oh, you're, sorry.

[00:24:28] You are the agency that advises on reputation to the brand.

[00:24:31] Here is the narrative.

[00:24:32] The brand has carefully been building its reputation as someone who's caring, who's, you know, who's sensitive towards customers.

[00:24:38] But yet, there is this flare-up.

[00:24:41] What would your advice be to your client?

[00:24:44] So, my first advice to all my clients is to prepare for your crisis in advance.

[00:24:51] Because broadly, you know what are three, four things or maybe hundred things that go really wrong about you.

[00:24:59] For an airline, flight being late is a pretty normal thing.

[00:25:01] It's a very common thing.

[00:25:03] And people cribbing about it is also extremely common thing, right?

[00:25:06] So, we actually identify scenarios like this.

[00:25:11] And then we filter them down to some key such scenarios which are highly frequent.

[00:25:18] So, we map them on two parameters.

[00:25:21] Okay.

[00:25:22] We map them on the frequency and the impact parameter.

[00:25:26] So, how likely is this going to happen?

[00:25:30] Possibly in your example, it's highly likely that this will happen.

[00:25:33] But what is going to be the impact?

[00:25:35] Will it be a medium impact, high impact, low impact or devastating?

[00:25:39] Yeah.

[00:25:40] If it's medium to low, you take note of it and you work on it.

[00:25:46] There is no point trying to justify your stance.

[00:25:50] So, that's the way we go about it.

[00:25:52] But if it is high or devastating, then you need to first control the narrative and also parallelly, of course, work on your operations.

[00:26:00] So, that's the way we go about it.

[00:26:03] And first step is do advanced planning.

[00:26:07] Now, after having done the advanced planning, something like this happens.

[00:26:11] And again, for the example sake, let's assume that it had a high to devastating impact on the company.

[00:26:18] Something terribly went wrong.

[00:26:21] In such cases, organization, instead of trying to justify stance, should issue a simple holding statement saying that we have taken note on this and we are working on it and we will come back to you.

[00:26:34] Right?

[00:26:35] Very quickly, timely, this statement has to go out so that the audience feels that they are being listened to.

[00:26:43] Right?

[00:26:43] Half the battle is won when your opponent feels that you care or even if it's not an opponent, the other side feels that they are cared for.

[00:26:53] So, that needs to be done very quickly.

[00:26:56] Follow that up with some action and go back with an update.

[00:27:03] And like I keep saying, also know when to stay silent.

[00:27:08] Because a lot of times you just get embroiled into the brick bat and your focus from the key activity that you have to do goes away.

[00:27:20] And then that spirals into another problem.

[00:27:23] So, you should know when to, till what extent you want to get into a conversation with somebody.

[00:27:29] But my simple recommendation will be, in case of crisis, simply issue a holding statement timely.

[00:27:37] Follow that up with some actions that you would have taken.

[00:27:40] And engage with an audience to the extent it is healthy.

[00:27:45] Focus, but more importantly, focus on getting the work done and solving the issue.

[00:27:50] That's a very impressive checklist, folks, of how to deal with a crisis.

[00:27:53] Because remember that these responses shape the narrative.

[00:27:56] Yes.

[00:27:56] Every time that such a thing happens and how the company responds in the short term, a whole bunch of short term incidents build up to a long term narrative.

[00:28:03] Am I right in assuming that?

[00:28:06] Absolutely.

[00:28:06] In fact, one of my most favorite examples of narrative that comes and possibly some of you will even resonate with it.

[00:28:14] Is that of, from mythology though, but from that of Maryada Purushottam Ram.

[00:28:21] Sure.

[00:28:21] You know, he's considered to be righteous.

[00:28:24] He's considered to be a brave warrior.

[00:28:26] He's considered to be somebody who followed the right principles.

[00:28:31] Now, none of us have experienced him.

[00:28:33] But this is a story that is being told about him to us from generations.

[00:28:39] And we are believing in it.

[00:28:41] Now, a lot of people come up with the observations like, oh, what he did to Sita was not right.

[00:28:48] The way he killed Bali was not right.

[00:28:50] And so on.

[00:28:52] So those, so remember like this, right?

[00:28:55] So those detractors will keep coming to your life.

[00:28:58] Correct.

[00:28:59] Does that devalue Maryada Purushottam Ram's position?

[00:29:05] It doesn't.

[00:29:06] Exactly that is how leaders have to look at themselves.

[00:29:10] That they are here to do business.

[00:29:12] They are here to create an impact.

[00:29:14] They should focus on that.

[00:29:16] But one, you know, negative episode here or one negative episode there.

[00:29:22] Even then, their focus has to be on the business more than getting embroiled into these detracting events.

[00:29:31] If done consciously, it will certainly contribute and go a long way in shaping the narrative.

[00:29:40] One very favorite example again there is Dipinder Goyal.

[00:29:44] I quite like the way he is shaping his narrative.

[00:29:47] Very interesting.

[00:29:48] And do you want to expand on how?

[00:29:49] You see, as in everything that he does is that of a simple person who has, so there are enough and more negative narratives again or negative messages around Zomato.

[00:30:03] There are business numbers are not very favorable, all of that.

[00:30:09] But still, it's quite a loved brand.

[00:30:11] Our weekends don't, you know, go without.

[00:30:14] But having said that, the brand is so integral in our life.

[00:30:18] They are continuously reinventing themselves.

[00:30:20] They are continuous.

[00:30:21] So while he is doing all that for the brand, he is very conscious about his personal profile as well.

[00:30:28] And you see, recently he went into that mall where he showcased that how delivery boys are not allowed entry in the mall.

[00:30:36] He is getting there with a camera, right?

[00:30:38] There is somebody shooting him.

[00:30:40] So it's not all that simple as it appears to the naked eye.

[00:30:45] So there is a conscious effort towards shaping that narrative, right?

[00:30:50] Him eating with his delivery boys.

[00:30:53] Where are you getting these footages from?

[00:30:56] Somebody is shooting it, right?

[00:30:57] So there is a structured work that is being done around it.

[00:31:01] But having said this, it's a very smart way and very believable way of doing it.

[00:31:07] And I think audience is loving it.

[00:31:11] And why not keep building on it?

[00:31:13] Yes.

[00:31:14] Folks, that is how you own the narrative, control it and respond to crisis.

[00:31:18] And that's what our show is about.

[00:31:21] That's a wrap on this episode of Reputation Matters.

[00:31:23] Our guest, our expert as always, Meethu Samar, founder and CEO of Eminence Algya.

[00:31:27] And certainly, Meethu, thank you as always for doing this for our audience.

[00:31:30] Very happy to do so.

[00:31:32] Thank you.