The Impact of AI in the Indian education sector with Dr. Manjula Srinivasan

[00:00:00] Pops in a Pod, Pops in a Pod. Hey everyone, welcome to Pops in a Pod, Peter Pops here and this is Nadir POP. So this week we have got a very exciting episode and it is particularly excited because you

[00:00:29] know Nadir if we are to be believed the times that we live in or the news articles, at some point you and I may not even need to be recording these episodes.

[00:00:39] We can just like type out text and our voices will be in a podcast and stuff like that. Crazy times we live in, huh? Yeah it's all over. In fact what you just spoke about is already happening with images right?

[00:00:56] You type a scenario and AI will create the image and give it to you. But the whole conversation today that we are having is AI disruption in education and how is it going to affect education from all aspects right? Teacher, students, parents and the future.

[00:01:19] Yeah I mean you know this is something that affects both of us also because we are guest faculty at a local college here in Bombay and that actually is one of the things

[00:01:32] I keep thinking about is how much AI is going to change not just the creative fields where we work in but also the education field right? I mean at this point you are already seeing chat GPT and programs like this being banned

[00:01:49] across campuses in the US and stuff like that. So you know we thought instead of it just being two of us why not get someone who is an experienced teacher to join us and have a chat around this. Why don't you introduce her Nathir?

[00:02:05] So for today's episode we have got a very established educationist with more than 24 years of experience in the field of media education. We have Dr. Manjula Srinivas. She is a professor and dean, liberal arts and design thinking and dean student affairs at Soil in Delhi.

[00:02:32] Formerly she was the department head of mass media KC college and she has been working with KC college since 2001. That was a year that I enrolled myself in KC college so in a way you can say that Manjula ma'am and I started our trust with mass media together.

[00:02:56] We have brought her in today to have a detailed conversation on how AI is going to affect the education sector and yeah I think she's going to give us a lot of perspective on this and who better right?

[00:03:12] Peter considering that she's been in media education for 24 years over 24 years. Yeah I mean she's definitely seen how other technologies have kind of had an impact on media and creative arts so I think that's enough of an intro. Let's dive straight into our episode.

[00:03:32] Welcome to Pops and the Pots Dr. Srinivas. I think it has taken us over 150 episodes to finally invite you just a little context I have already given this context but just a little context. Dr. Manjula Srinivas was my, how should I put this?

[00:03:48] Professor, teacher, coordinator everything in like the earliest batch of mass media isn't it Dr. Manjula? Of course of course you're making me sound really old but yes. And then of course we sort of I came back to teach the same college where I studied all thanks to you.

[00:04:09] And it has been a wonderful journey so far. So I look for many more such years to come and at the students at KC should benefit out of this. Absolutely and Peter also is one of the beneficiaries because he also teaches at the same college.

[00:04:28] So it's been great like this connection has just worked out really well for all of us. Welcome Peter. Yeah, thanks Manjula. I mean I must say right like a lot of people talk about like how deep is Nader and my friendship

[00:04:42] as like you have no idea we do many we have many too many things in common. But yeah we just to set some context as to why we've also got you on the podcast

[00:04:53] is you know one of the most common questions has anyone who works in any form of media has been discussing in the last month or two is that what's AI going to do to your job or how is AI going to affect your job.

[00:05:10] So I thought it'd be nice to kind of have this conversation but not only just talking from work perspective but also you know one of the things when I was thinking about chat

[00:05:20] GPT open AI and all the various platforms that are kind of emerging is that the education field is really going to be you know impacted by this both in the short term and the long term.

[00:05:33] So that's one of the things we wanted to discuss but I have to ask you since you're still teaching and going strong what's that discussion been like for you in the education sector around the AI.

[00:05:46] Well Peter that's a very very contemporary and a very concerning question which I think we have been reading about getting answers from several platforms and each one of them makes it further you know what would you say.

[00:06:04] Parisam in many ways there are so many things which education sector can boast about right. Let's say the primary to the middle to the secondary to the higher education to the advanced research.

[00:06:21] There are many stages in education but AI in some form or the other has been a boon and a bane like how you talk about it right. So you could tell me that ma'am don't you think AI is simply too good you know why

[00:06:37] should we say no to technology. Why should you say no to something which makes our life simpler easier right for a faculty or for a teacher it's very easy to use AI in terms of creating very personalized notes for

[00:06:56] students at the school level or at the college level right. It gives a student the freedom to keep getting personalized attention through these technological platforms which enables the student to do better.

[00:07:14] So suppose you are in a class of 60 when like Nadir was in my class you know this is year 2002 I remember there could have been the peer pressure of whether to ask certain things or not right.

[00:07:31] So AI makes it simpler that you could have 24 hours access to something which keeps telling you how correct yourself how to improvise how to make yourself better right. Now these are the things which in a class of 60 you would have hesitated like should I ask this or not.

[00:07:52] Maybe if I ask what will my friend think oh I don't know this so though we think of education for all there are certain exclusive things which has made us hesitate to ask certain things.

[00:08:07] So AI has been a great supportive thing at that point of time from now that you could look at a lot of personalized content which it creates for you. Okay so that is the best part of it I must say it can help you in education for assessment

[00:08:27] it can help you create so much of what you call as instructional design content okay which is not possible for any teacher to draw it on the board in those 35 40 minutes

[00:08:44] of a class you have a smart board you just played there things are so easy for the students to understand also in a three dimensional way like you know today if you have to study about brain I am getting a 360 degree experience of how to understand brain from

[00:09:00] outside from inside. So there are so many technological advances which have enabled education sector also to make the entire experience a very enjoyable one at the same time something memorable these things are very easy for us to understand right because there is a better way of explaining

[00:09:26] things through technology but that's not the end of it right what are the problems then when you face with such technology let's say Nader or Peter comes to the class right and they talk to the students about digital platforms to digital marketing to

[00:09:49] digital advertising okay now each session has some core value because you bring in your human experiences with I will get these content anyway online then why am I coming to class as a student it is because the intervention between technology and the classroom is the

[00:10:13] teacher I strongly believe in that and as most of us have concluded in the last two three years why couldn't I sit at my own in the comfort of my own home and just listen to

[00:10:29] the faculty teaching me online it has failed miserably do you agree with me Nader? I do I mean as a from a teacher's perspective as well as from a student's perspective we are talking about AI I remember you know when Google really became what it is now and

[00:10:51] in terms of the whole education aspect of things especially you know when I had to set certain papers and I'm expecting objective answers I see copy paste like horrible copy paste job

[00:11:05] I mean you really just know it you just know that this is not their original idea it's not because 20 other people have copied the same blog and you know used it as an exam

[00:11:17] answer but the fact that I have interacted with these kids and I know that's not the language that they employ they don't speak that language at all and suddenly very true now yeah very true

[00:11:26] so you know when so just let's take it a little more I didn't say okay what is AI today okay as Peter you rightly pointed out about chat GPT right I saw it about a few months back somebody

[00:11:43] showed me how the software works and how exactly you could get original content for your you know area of research or even a press release to that matter even a you know a copy for a brand which

[00:11:59] you are wanting to create okay a speech which is to be delivered by a president or a secretary or whatever in a management school all you had to do was just put some words and the

[00:12:17] speech was ready which earlier we would take at least five to seven minutes to work on it right now it's ready in five seconds if that's the case then Siri has helped our kids know the spellings they don't know the spellings they know the

[00:12:40] spellings I what Siri tells them so a laptop in a classroom for students to study is definitely an advance advancement of technology but it takes away the attention of the student in the class from what the faculty or the teacher is teaching

[00:13:05] you are glued to your your laptop because you have absolutely become a slave to what Google tells you or Siri tells you or Wikipedia tells you where is the original ways of using our brains

[00:13:19] applying things today you may not be able to you know write well so you just take the help of chat gpt your technology or just get Google to give you a ready made answer to whatever you're

[00:13:35] looking for but how will your own originality come into the real life situation one could scrape through this in in the most you know advanced ways because I know the technology but the human intervention is a must whether you are teaching or whether you are applying your brains

[00:14:03] to something which you call as original now please understand chat gpt may have a firewall or a or a you know a blocking of that particular thing in a university setup and some of them are

[00:14:19] already done your phd if you're working on if you're a researcher you're working on a research paper if you're submitting an assignment or any kind of dissertation or thesis you could just have multiple pages written and submitted but there are softwares which are going to check

[00:14:40] whether it is your work or it is from chat gpt so don't think that this is going to be a win-win situation for anything which is called as AI in education I agree with everything that technology

[00:14:54] is bringing into our classrooms into our lives into our homes but you know that we may go back the way we would be studying the way we would remember our spellings the way we would

[00:15:09] correct ourselves by being trained with grammar from Ren Martin okay I still think that is very important in a in educational environment that you may have technology but you have to

[00:15:26] remember that there is a limitation to that it cannot be the know all and you know that I will just be fine with the way technology is taking over most of the sectors yeah so you know

[00:15:42] dr. Manjula you've been in this sector for over 30 years correct the education sector you've you have grown up the ranks you've you've headed departments you're you've just completed your phd so while you were teaching you were also learning yourself now with the advancement of

[00:16:00] new technologies right I'm sure at some point this would have come up that when when google comes in you know what will happen teachers will not be required because all information is on the

[00:16:09] internet but we have seen that that's not the case right google can never replace a physical human teacher AI conversations are happening right now the last you know six odd months these conversations are happening so it's very new and all of us are seeing it

[00:16:28] right now but we are already looking at the the negatives right we don't know how it will whether it's going to help us because everyone will say that oh AI is here to replace human

[00:16:42] beings in all all sectors or whatever it is including education but there is a flip side where it says but AI is only here to aid you right artificial intelligence is here to aid you

[00:16:53] do you are you positive about the fact that it can never possibly replace humans because you did mention it just right now a couple of minutes ago what what is your perspective on that

[00:17:03] because there will be students who will exploit it right but it's going to be easy for for us to kind of catch them so where do you feel that the balance is going to come

[00:17:14] see nathir if I am taking 24 sessions of about 30 hours in a trimester in my present management school it will take me two sessions to understand as you rightly pointed out earlier also the caliber of each tool right so if Peter can't construct a single sentence properly has

[00:17:36] given me 5000 words document which is flawlessly written there is something wrong with that right okay so that is one level of understanding that somebody is trying to fool around the entire assignment which you have given second is when you have the assignment divided into oral

[00:17:58] and written you may win me by writing a flawless assignment but can you win over me by speaking the same thing by discussing the same thing in an oral presentation of course not there you

[00:18:13] catch the purse one second when you spoke about my phd and the challenges I do not deny that that as a as prinzky one of the you know theorist has spoken about it that I am a digital immigrant

[00:18:32] you are digital natives okay so I have seen what it was to have a television to a color television to something like satellite to something like internet etc etc right but has

[00:18:48] one taken over the other has one replaced the other no it hasn't you know why each one of us have certain kinds of needs for example today you go to a city like London and you go to a

[00:19:06] household and you will listen to people or rather you will observe people listening to radio news it has come back you know why because when you listen to radio you are also doing other things

[00:19:23] but if you are watching television you're stuck with it so this is something there is a revival of a medium in a very interesting way I would like to ask you that suppose I want to understand

[00:19:37] the pronunciation of certain words what do I do today I just google and it comes right but if I want to listen to it consistently the best thing even today I would recommend to my students

[00:19:52] is listen to the radio a IR five minutes of news it has no ads it has no you know what you call as theatrical in it it's just pure news in the most refined form right so if you come back to the

[00:20:15] education sector and the question that you asked me what are the challenges that I see going forward job wise in education there is no worry no worry at all the worrisome part in the education

[00:20:34] sector is the research part and if I keep on telling that I am publishing and I'm authoring I'm editing and if I have not learned really the skills of doing those things I will fall flat

[00:20:50] in the years to come where if I have to speak in a conference or if I have to teach students I stutter and stammer I do not know the concepts because I've done everything by copy-pasting

[00:21:02] so if I want to really take education and academics seriously I better do my homework and the homework is to work hard keep reading keep studying be a student all your life

[00:21:20] why did I do my phd at the age of 51 is simple another because I thought I should be doing something which upgrades my knowledge upgrades my skills and it was not easy I mean I think

[00:21:35] the entire family was doing phd when I was doing as a joke I'm telling somebody's helping me with formatting somebody's helping me with putting the things together so for somebody who is in the

[00:21:46] 50s club it is not easy to embrace technology but we did there is nothing like asking for help if I do not know something I will say Nadir would you just help me put this ppt properly

[00:22:00] he might be a student sitting in the class so what I was not born with technology I'm embracing technology and obviously AI is not going to replace all of those connections whether it's

[00:22:11] family whether college whether friends whether whatever it is I mean this is this is this is how you build a case this is how you do research this is how you learn yes and I think you know

[00:22:24] as an educator as an academician as a researcher what do you learn that you may not know everything say yes to that you will never know everything so you have to keep building your knowledge base

[00:22:39] and my dear friends AI is just a shortcut and I think if you want to succeed there is no shortcut to success one has to work hard today if Nadir comes to the class or Peter comes to

[00:22:55] the class and he speaks for three hours two hours do you recite and come do you you know do you what you call pie heart and come it's not it is the communication which naturally comes to us because

[00:23:13] of the experience can I ask a chat gpt to start typing on my slide that why will somebody come to a class so somewhere teaching is also performing the voice modulation to the way you

[00:23:32] convincingly talk about the concepts are very is very very important so if I have taught Nadir I'm sure that was a very different era what is the challenge today it is to keep somebody

[00:23:48] in the class for minimum one and a half two hours not only physically mentally also because the distractions are in many forms I'll tell you one more very interesting thing about technology the minute Nadir starts teaching or Peter starts teaching in the class you know

[00:24:13] somebody would just start googling whether the content is available as it is on google so my dear friends you can't just come with a slideshare saying that this is my work it is better to say that I found something on slideshare and I'm using it here simple

[00:24:39] so honesty is very important in this profession and if you do not have that it's you don't have that integrity if you don't have that guts to say yes to certain things that you do not know

[00:24:51] then you're finished one of the other things that can spark my interest in having this conversation on the podcast yeah was there's a famous youtuber named Casey Neistat yeah and he

[00:25:04] actually one of his recent videos actually went to chat gpt and said write a script for my vlog to do it yeah and then I'm gonna add this in the show notes because it's really hilarious to watch

[00:25:18] line by line so not only wrote the script but also the frame of shot that he the frame that he had to shoot as part of his vlog yeah and I followed along for like about a minute and then

[00:25:31] I could see each five seconds my interest was dropping and dropping and dropping and I was like okay when is this gonna end yeah and I skipped forward and then he goes into a monologue where he

[00:25:43] talks about what his thoughts on the script was and he said it's boring because one of the things about media right and media in general I'm saying is that there are a lot of nuances right it's for

[00:25:56] example Nadir cannot write a script for me to say right and I can kind of deliver it and that's one of the things that for a lot of people I think you know they think that like you talked about like

[00:26:08] you can just scrape through but at the end of the day you need to put that hard work because that's where the nuance comes that's where the interest lies right I mean let's be honest we could

[00:26:20] just like have a recording of this just play for our students or whatever yeah but after a period of time they'll just get bored because there's no interaction there's a lot of other sensory

[00:26:31] involvement in there which kind of brings me to the next part that we really wanted to discuss with you and you're a parent too so that's one thing we definitely want to tap into is

[00:26:44] what would your thing be for parents right now right and it could be for slightly older parents I mean slightly older kids who have access now to chat GPT who are saying that why do I need to

[00:26:56] remember all these formulas and all of these things right for a lot of parents now their kids are using technology independent of them they're not really dependent on there right like what would

[00:27:09] you suggest or any kind of guidelines you have for all the parents kind of listening to this Peter I think your kids like Nadir and your kid are still relatively small maybe a parent who has

[00:27:24] a 14 year old or a 16 year old son or daughter you just ask them 15 Pfizer and 13 Pfizer is 65 and 75 they will not be able to say you know why because my system is attuned to getting something

[00:27:45] readily available right if I ask you what would be 18 minus 9 I will mentally answer you as 9 in one second but a kid who has been used to using all kinds of technology will first go to

[00:28:03] his mobile will first go to his Cal C and try and get the answer out you know so when I was bringing up my children maybe the technology was not so advanced so I could kind of imbibe the same

[00:28:17] training which I went through but yes I still see the difference in what I know as concepts to what my children know as concept right I'm not talking only about English and media I'm talking

[00:28:29] about in general right the passion with which a teacher taught me in the school to the passion with which I learned those concepts since in the school is very very different today right the the student may not be most of the time mentally available in the club

[00:28:53] you have a smart watch which is a copy case today that we had a copy case on the smart watch unbelievable exactly I mean you see I am trying to find newer ways of catching people while invigilating

[00:29:10] you know those chits and purchase are gone now right so the efforts as you rightly put it meter the efforts you put in to make efforts to do things which are not ethical why don't you

[00:29:24] try and learn in the most linear way what education is all about and you know my worry is what my worry is not today my worry is of these graduates after 10 years with these assistance assistance of AI

[00:29:43] it will make you a slave you may not want 500 people to work for you obviously because AI is doing a lot of work for you but ultimately the human team needs to be equipped to do things which

[00:29:59] is original which is different today if you are writing something which is creative you can get it as many versions from chat gpt but still it will not have that what you call the punch

[00:30:12] which somebody puts in because of the ways returned to the ways delivered I am only going to stick to the education sector in AI but it is going to affect almost everything around it

[00:30:27] in the years to come how you train your students at school at college level at higher education level is going to make a huge difference in the years you know it's interesting because the students always find these ingenious ways yeah to try and sort of bypass these educational

[00:30:47] rules that regulation like I was just reading an article right now that how a student train chat gpt to secure 94% in that particular exam what what he would have probably he or she would

[00:31:01] have taken six odd weeks to study managed to do it in two or three hours and scored a 94% now I don't know I mean is that smart is that lazy is that stupid I guess it can fit everywhere

[00:31:18] right but in the end are you learning or are you just trying to be clever by you know saving that time and then doing what right so there's so many debates that that can sort of come about

[00:31:30] what do you think dr. Manjula that like if I if if I had to ask you to sort of lead to a conclusion of this this conversation and and I can assure you this is just a starting

[00:31:44] there's so many conversations out there where you are sitting considering your 30 years of experience and still continuing what do you think is the the future I know I can't expect a straight answer

[00:31:57] but what do you think in your perspective is the future what will I do to students to teachers to parents alike to institutions where do you see jobs whatever it is like whatever is connected to

[00:32:10] the education sector and artificial intelligence what do you see the future as see it is no rocket science now there that the jobs will get affected there will be a lot of human jobs

[00:32:25] which will not be required right even in the education sector a lot of LMS has come the learning management system which reduces the human intervention and there are a lot of things which the system

[00:32:41] does for you in terms of evaluation in terms of assigning assignments in terms of you know collating the information and bringing out the grades and the results and the grade sheets and

[00:32:56] also lot of human work has got reduced and because of these LMS systems a lot of things have become very easy for any institution to expedite the process so something which took you a couple

[00:33:12] of months can be done in like three days or four days an assignment which a software can assess is only with certain parameters suppose I ask you to write something and I want to evaluate you

[00:33:30] it cannot be measurable in some situations because it is subjective let's say I have an experienced evaluate that will be different for each you know a student who has written about

[00:33:48] it is only that I read and understand and I evaluate I cannot scan it through a software to be marked right that means I am going to put very different comments on each and every

[00:34:03] assignment which helps the student do it better the next time now that is the faculty or the teacher for the student as a mentor as a guide which cannot be replaced by these things but at the same time

[00:34:17] what happens in the future jokes apart for all you know after 10 years or 12 years a faculty might ask a student please give me an assignment with mistakes it is too much to believe that

[00:34:33] you have written such a flawless assignment like like or maybe you give like you know those backwards is like find the mistakes in this because you know so much yes it'll be those kind of things exactly I think that will that will fetch the maximum grades and marks

[00:34:54] because somebody has tried to be original about it so I I do not have an answer to this but I would not be very pessimistic about it because in each situation in the education sector

[00:35:11] whatever I have experienced I feel that chat GPT has been the most disturbing kind of a thing which really shakes all of us wherever you know whichever industry everywhere but at the same time

[00:35:30] this cannot be the end of it you know like okay now everything can be done by it so why should you need anybody for it won't be like that right I am still very optimistic about the fact that

[00:35:44] things which have to be done in a particular way with a human touch with something which is to be done creatively because somebody knows something beyond that that is something which machine tool know you know AI can replace that means also that a lot of replication will happen

[00:36:08] in the ideas which are generated situation being the same so as Nadir said if I want 94 percent why 94 we should stop at we should look at 99 percent or we should look at 101 percent after

[00:36:26] the point I remember you know these conversations when my parents would say that oh our time was up 60 percent 65 percent was a big deal university topper with 61 percent so chat GP I mean yeah with artificial intelligence and you know so many other programs I mean we

[00:36:47] keep saying chat GPT because that's the only software that that has found so much space in the media but there's so many other softwares out there right like that which you can't avoid

[00:36:58] and they're just doing everything and it is scary I completely agree it is scary but obviously it's outside the realm of education yeah I mean I don't know now that did you see there's a new one

[00:37:10] I know canva did but there's a new one that we keep sharing this at work right you basically all you have to do is just do a basic drawing and it'll create an image yeah or

[00:37:25] you write like oh yes oh yes Peter in fact yes yes chat GPT has now sections you wanted in which all it's not like just the text there is so much there's so many things which can be done and

[00:37:39] believe me when you look at artificial intelligence you know that one out of a billion is what's the chance of an error is okay in terms of data creation but at the same time that cannot be

[00:37:54] replicated in every situation in in that particular workplace right everything cannot be just creation of data please understand how are you going to interpret the data there is a human intervention there which is very important otherwise we all are going to be robots I get you know just

[00:38:14] from one person to the other and I think we already become in most of our ways of consumption of content to the way we live to the way we spend our time it's become already plastic I feel

[00:38:29] you know the those two years of lockdown gave a lot of people my space my time my role my ways of leading my life it could be a seven-year-old to a 14-year-old to a 21-year-old and most of them

[00:38:45] when they came out some of them thought life was better back in the in the bedroom where I was sitting the kid went to the school he felt that the school was so noisy so you know the normal ways

[00:39:03] in which we grow the normal ways in which a kid grows has changed drastically in the last few years I think when you say about COVID this is only this particular generation which is facing as a

[00:39:20] five-year-old or as a eight-year-old or as a 14-year-old I deal with higher education so I see students have started taking it as a treat to come back to the campus that ma'am please call us we are very

[00:39:33] happy to be in the camp now this is something which is a U-turn so jokes apart a day would come maybe you know if this podcast is archived and I would want my future generation to listen

[00:39:46] to this that you may ask as a teacher dear give me an assignment which has mistakes and I will mark you the best because the perfection part would have taken a saturation point according that is so

[00:39:59] well put dr. Manjula and thank you for sharing that that very vivid perspective because I'm just thinking about it and I'm like yeah like perfection will have no novelty or charm in the future

[00:40:10] if this continues and that's just really well put so but thank you for sharing sharing your thoughts on artificial intelligence in education we will obviously keep our eyes and ears open for anything

[00:40:25] that happens in this space and when things do get better or worse or whatever it is hopefully we call you back on the podcast then we reminisce about this episode that we had yes yes definitely

[00:40:37] another definitely Peter thank you so much for listening to a professor who loves to just keep talking and you know lecturing this is a very different platform where you know deliberations

[00:40:51] are at another level and I'm sure you all enjoyed as much as I enjoy having this kind of conversation and I hope your audience loves to listen to this podcast and you get many many

[00:41:06] more episodes to do I didn't know that you already finished 150 episodes I remember 100 episodes but great this is so nice thank you yeah thanks so much and yeah definitely looking forward to

[00:41:21] having you back on the podcast again soon Peter I think we have just touched the tip of the tip of the iceberg when it comes to AI because we don't even have enough data or insights to hold a very

[00:41:38] strong conversation outside of what you me and Dr. Manjula spoke yeah I think it's going to be an interesting six months or so especially considering like you had a lot of like business leaders

[00:41:53] and stuff like that talk and kind of petition that you know AI the advancement until you know you figure out the legal and ethical repercussions of it so like you kind of stop the progress of work

[00:42:08] on them so yeah it's going to be an interesting time ahead of us and I think it's not just media or education right it's like every field you'll have AI having an impact and

[00:42:24] yeah we should definitely be doing a follow-up episode to this I don't know sometime at the end of the year or maybe early next year for sure there's so much more to catch up on as far

[00:42:34] as AI is concerned and everyone has this outlook that AI is going to take over but I'd like to be optimistic and hopefully you know the machines will not take over humans will survive

[00:42:49] this if terminators to be believed just saying that's true it's been a long while since the term Terminator movie has come out so yeah let's hope the human race survives this but thank you guys

[00:43:04] for staying with us and please do follow us on Popsinapod on Instagram or you can just write to us on popsinapod at gmail.com if you come across some interesting guests or some interesting stories

[00:43:17] let us know and you know who knows we might just get that guest or discuss that topic and hopefully yeah make a good episode out of it yeah we're actually working on a very special

[00:43:32] episode coming up soon so yeah just stay tuned to our social media you'll get some behind the scenes of it but that's all I'm gonna say for now I'll see you all very soon see you guys