Aparna Popat: Discipline, Resilience & Girls in Sport

[00:00:02] She very famously said, give me this girl and I will put her on the Indian badminton map without sort of seeing your skills in the sport. The boys and the men play for achievement and the girls play for entertainment.

[00:00:26] He asked mom, he said, what's your bank balance? What car do you drive? He didn't even ask for my age. The sun and our idea of what a girl should basically look like, which is sort of ingrained in society. If you played sport, you were typically labeled as a tall boy. It's actually a little disappointing, right? Because you have to work twice as hard. Don't get too attached to the national title because come next year there will be a new national champion.

[00:00:53] A parent's validation for a child is extremely important. Like the world could say something to you, but if your parents don't agree with that, you won't be satisfied. Telling your child they played brilliantly when they clearly did not. If someone had told me in that age that you can't eat this and you can't do this and you can't do this, I think I would have stopped playing altogether.

[00:01:29] Joining us today, Aparna Popat, who is a former Indian badminton player and nine-time national champion. Widely regarded as one of India's badminton pioneers, a two-time Olympian and Commonwealth Games medalist. She was honored with the Arjuna Award for her contribution to Indian sport. Aparna, thank you for taking the time and welcome to the Parenting Pause. Thank you so much.

[00:01:52] So, Aparna, let me start by actually taking you back to 2006, the Indian National Badminton Championships. On one side of the court, there was Saina Nehwal. On the other side was you, Aparna Popat. You had won the championship eight times in a row. You were vying for the ninth sign. And if you did, you would equal the legendary Prakash Padukone's record.

[00:02:22] You were also battling a wrist injury at that point. You won, you equaled the record and then you retired. Right? Extremely, extremely inspiring story. What I want to do is today, talk about what it took to become Aparna Popat, the badminton champion.

[00:02:45] What we can do to make more Aparnas in this country and basically understand your journey better. Just in 2006, do you remember what it was like walking onto that court for that tournament and just take me back and what was going on in your mind? So I think obviously that tournament was extremely special to me. Not because necessarily it was, you know, would be my ninth title if I won.

[00:03:12] But just because the national championships to me growing up was very important. And at that point in time, if you didn't win the national championships, they wouldn't select you in the national team. So it was a direct route to the nationals and to play international badminton. If I missed out on that year, then I would miss out 12 months of international badminton.

[00:03:34] So the national championships had this sort of, you know, pedestal sort of place in the badminton calendar for me. So come national championships, there would be a switch in my mind and say, look, this is it. This is where you need to peak. This is what you need to do.

[00:03:51] So this particular nationals in 2006 was a national fair event and not thinking about winning as much, but thinking about getting through the tournament because of my wrist injury, which was extremely painful. The pain would come and go. But if the pain came, then I could not even, you know, brush my teeth. I couldn't have my hair, you know, couldn't drink, you know, pick up a cup of coffee.

[00:04:19] So in that sense, my attention was purely on protecting my wrist and not necessarily on the outcome of the tournament at all. It was match to match. Can I get through this match next day? Okay. When I started playing the tournament, there were a few adjustments I had to make. I started serving backhand for the first time in my life. And now it's more routine to serve backhand at that point wasn't. So people were like saying, what is going on here?

[00:04:48] It was to protect my wrist. It was not strategy. The second thing, every night I would put a grip bandage on my wrist and put my hand under the pillow and sleep so that, you know, inadvertently in my sleep, I wouldn't sort of hurt my wrist. So things like that, that you had to do. I was practicing once a week. Otherwise, ordinarily, I would at least have 12 sessions in a week. But I was practicing just one just to protect my wrist and see through the tournament.

[00:05:16] So I went from match to match. Now I got to the finals. Of course, Saina was up and coming. In fact, a lot of my past coaches and people in the audience said that she was going to come out on dock because she was playing extremely well. And in fact, later in the year, she went on to win her first international title at the Philippines. So she was in that kind of form.

[00:05:41] I kept my wrist injury and then, you know, the seriousness of it away from the media. Went into the match again very strategically sort of played few shots. Not as playing about 70% of my game, couldn't play a lot of strokes. The attention was just one more point, Shinoget. One more point, one more point. And then before you know it, the match is over. And, you know, Mr. Prakash Padukone was in the audience. I was equaling his record. He's my idol and mentor.

[00:06:11] Bangalore is where I played my first nationals. This wouldn't be my last. And I knew it going into this tournament. So I started in Bangalore, ended in Bangalore. So to walk out to a standing ovation, being in there number one, I think is something that is... I just have to be blessed, you know, to have that kind of a closing to my career. So everything just fell into place very beautifully. And then the next morning, the pain was back. It was a miracle of sorts.

[00:06:39] But it's interesting you say that because this is one talk I was listening to. I'm not sure if it's Fedra, but where he says, which is the most important point in a match? And the answer was the next point. Yeah. Right. And your ability to actually zoom out and just focus on the next point is... It's easier said than done, right? But how do you play at 70% capacity? Can come out on top? Is it a mental view? So it's just that you going into any match,

[00:07:08] you realize you have certain resources and you have certain strengths, certain limitations. And within that, how can you carve out your strategy in the best possible way? Now I knew I was limited in terms of the kind of strokes that I could play. So could I use the strokes that I had to better effect? Could I make it more consistent? So now I didn't have that room for error in that sense. So if I was... If the shuttle was on my racket, I could not afford to make a mistake.

[00:07:36] I could not afford to play two shots more. Physically, I was otherwise fit. I could run down shuttles. You know, I was a... Endurance wasn't a problem. But if the more I got strokes to play, the higher the chance of the pain coming back. So how concise can you keep it? You know, how tight can you keep your game? So in that sense, yes, it's a mental game. The attitude going in the match, like rather than looking at it as a disadvantage, like how do you draw strength from it?

[00:08:05] What instance saying, okay, I can't do this to say, okay, this is what I have. So I need to up my focus many fold. So just make use of, you know, the situation in a positive way. And how did you retire at top? I know there was the injury, but very often when you see spots, you know, any personal retiring at top takes courage. It takes cuts. So how did that happen?

[00:08:35] Um, so I played my first nationals in 1989, which was the under 12. Um, at that point, I don't come from a sporting family. So we didn't know what the nationals was. Uh, for me, it was just another trip to Bangalore. Um, and my coach had told me that you go and play a match and I'll tell you how to play. And he made it so simple for me to say, opponent aage hai to piche maaro, opponent piche hai to aage maaro. In very simple terms.

[00:09:04] And, um, that's how my tournament was. But I won that first nationals. And, you know, when I was 11 years old and then I went on to play 17 more years of the nationals and I won 16 times in the singles only. So every year pretty much being number one in my age group. So I won one in the under 12 category, two in the under 15, four in the under 19, and then nine seniors, uh, consecutively. So it was 16 titles in 17 years.

[00:09:32] Um, so for me, it wasn't about that, you know, about being the number one and protecting it as much as it was that if I keep up this level of excellence, that the number one would follow. And my coach had, uh, one thing that he had told me, which I remember very clearly, he said, don't get too attached to the national title because come next year, there will be a new national champion, which means the nationals comes again

[00:10:00] and you'll have to win it again if you want to be national champion. So don't get too attached to it. So I would win and then the next year would come, new goals would be set and you go on to achieving it. Um, what is fascinating now on hindsight to see is that you win. Okay. You're good. You've played, but to keep yourself in the best form for so many years,

[00:10:22] I think that took a lot of effort, um, a lot of luck in many ways and just the right people around me. So that sometimes when I think back so much could go wrong, you know, leading up to the national championships or in your form or in, in your team sort of balance or anything could happen. Or an opponent could be much better. A new kid could come on the block, you know, you never know, but just feel really happy that that happened.

[00:10:51] And I think that is something that now when I look back, yeah, it was special. It's interesting. And actually badminton was not even the game that was planned. It was tennis. So that's what you had wanted to play. So how did badminton find you? I'm glad it did. Yeah. I mean, I always wanted to play tennis. Steffi Graf was my idol. And, um, right about at the time when I started playing in 19, um, you know, 86.

[00:11:20] And, uh, she was obviously one of the famous athletes and female athletes. And I still just loved the way she played. And I loved tennis as a sport. So I said, okay, when I grow up, I want to be like that. So, you know, one summer holidays, uh, as an eight year old, uh, my mom took me to the club and we went to the tennis court. And they said, Oh, we don't have a slot in your summer coaching. Um, it's all full up.

[00:11:43] So I said, no, no, but you know, I want to play tennis. So mom took me to another coach and, um, that coach actually, uh, straight away, he didn't even look at me. Um, he asked mom, he said, what's your bank balance? What car do you drive? And, um, you know, are you sure? He didn't even ask for my age. Uh, he didn't even ask whether I played sport, nothing of the sort.

[00:12:10] And mom just turned around and said, I think we need to leave. And I was just eight years old and I didn't really understand what that exchange meant and what would, how it would have made her feel. So for me, it was like, damn, you know, I can't play tennis. And this coach has sort of, you know, we rejected, uh, you know, a keen kid like me. But, um, we went then to the badminton court at CCI club and, uh, we again asked the summer coaching camp.

[00:12:38] And, uh, the, the coach who was supposed to conduct the camp wasn't around, but mom ran into a friend of hers and said, oh, you know that this coach on court number three, he's playing, he coaches a few kids. And, uh, just approach him. And if he, he decides and agrees to coach your daughter, that's fine. So my mom, we didn't know anything about anything. So, um, so mom asked him and he said, okay, you, you come tomorrow and I'll see if to, if your daughter's good and she can join. Otherwise there's a camp going on at Sachiwala Jumkhana.

[00:13:06] So we went the next day and, uh, and he looked at me and he said, okay, do some jumping jacks, run forward, run backwards. Uh, there was no racket in my hand. There was no mention of badminton. And he just stopped after that, told my mom, he said, I will coach this girl. Any shoes will do, any racket will do. Just send her to me seven days a week. After that for six years, I coached her. And, and that's how the game started. So for me.

[00:13:36] Yeah. But you, your coaches very famously said that, give me this girl and I will put her on the Indian badminton map. Right. So, and this was without sort of seeing your skills in the sport. Uh, what did he see in you? You know, I asked him that question all the time and literally this was, you know, how he judged. He didn't even, um, let's see nothing else pretty much.

[00:14:02] And he made such a bold statement. Right. But now when, when I keep like desperately trying to get an answer out of him and he says that a couple of things that he saw as traits, um, one was, he said, you listened with your eyes. And he said, you know, I don't know what's the name of the word. So, um, I think I'm sure it has a deeper meaning and I think it has a different meaning to each one of us.

[00:14:27] But in a way out of my experience, I just loved the sport so much that I would be so engrossed in the sport that the rest of the world sort of faded away. And this was every day. It wasn't like a one time thing. And if you, if he told me to say do wall practice, which he did for my first month of training, I didn't even step onto the badminton court because he was teaching me how to hold the racket. I didn't know how to hold the racket. I didn't know how to serve. I didn't know how to stand. I knew nothing about badminton.

[00:14:57] So he taught me like everything, uh, for one month not stepping on the court. And I remember a week in my mom went to him and said, you know, if you don't let Apu play, she's not going to stick with the sport. And he said, you have no idea. This kid is not going anywhere. So, you know, just being there, like continuously, you could put me on the court for half an hour and I would not get off. I would not be tired. I would not be distracted and I would be happy.

[00:15:27] So this, I think these couple of traits, um, sort of, you know, got him to maybe make a statement that he did. But yeah, all in all, I think there's a lot of hard work that's gone in from his side. And when I say a lot, it's, I'm completely underestimating it. You know, he's really curated my career and curated, um, me as, as a player and curated me as a person in so many ways.

[00:15:57] It's interesting you're saying because, so we had a discussion with Chris Pedra recently and he was also on the Paris Olympics committee in 24. Uh, two of the things that he actually stated was, um, to become professional, there is this innate drive and motivation. And I see that. And then the other thing is, is my child having fun? Right. And so in your case, it was, it seemed like it was true and spot on, isn't it?

[00:16:25] I think, you know, fun is something that's so important, but we, we sometimes think of fun as something frivolous. Fun is, doesn't necessarily mean frivolous. Fun, um, there's a certain amount of fun in learning something new. There's a certain amount of fun in feeling that you couldn't do something and then you can, you know, you realize you can. Yeah. There's a certain amount of fun you have when you're beating someone, right?

[00:16:53] And, and you, and you can go out and, you know, more reclaim that, you know, ha, I've got you, you know, kind of situation. Um, so fun can come out of anywhere. Fun is about innovating. Fun is about being with people. So while I was training very hard with, with, uh, Anil Bradhan, um, who's the coach, after doing my hard training sessions, I would go and play with the kids in the club.

[00:17:18] Uh, so CCI has courts on the ground floor, downstairs, and then they have one court on the first floor. So all our, all the kids would be pushed to the first floor. Um, and then we'd go there and play rounders. And then we'd go there and do, you know, a lot of try some trick shots. So just keeping a balance of the seriousness vis-a-vis, you know, the, the actual fun part of it, where you're just playing with, with friends, um, I think is very, very important. Right.

[00:17:43] Which, um, in, in team sports that happens organically, but in individual sports sometimes that doesn't. And, uh, you were very young when you started, right? You were eight. So for a child or for a parent sort of looking at this again, for a child who's showing interest in a particular sport, um, again, it wouldn't be this interesting motivation and making sure that they're just keen on sort of going in there and how much of it is, you know, nature versus not like basically practicing.

[00:18:12] So what your innate talent and then the hours on the court and being able to show up every day. Um, so of course what you do on the court is very important. The number of hours that you put on court in terms of volume is important. But I think what you do in terms of the quality that you bring to it is extremely important. Um, but I feel that part should be owned by the coach, not necessarily the parent's domain.

[00:18:41] Right. To gauge that, um, as a parent myself now, I think the kid going into the session and the attitude and the approach to it. And then the kid after the session's done is very, very important. So that would clearly give you an indication of whether the kids keen or the kids not keen. Um, I'm not saying that's the only way to read into things because sometimes, um,

[00:19:10] it just could be inconvenient for the kid to go at a particular time. Maybe the kid really wants to go, but at the same time, you know, there's something going on in the house. For example, maybe the younger siblings watching a new movie and then you have to go to play. So then you have that little bit of hesitation. Like, should I go? Should I not go? Um, so situations, you know, can, can play a role. Um, but by and large, I feel these are the two things.

[00:19:37] If they're happy going in and they're happy coming out, it's, it's a great indication. Um, the second is, and I think very importantly, kids, I think go to play sport, uh, for two, three reasons. Right. Either they love the sport. Yeah. Okay. Whatever. The love comes later. You, you enjoy playing the sport. So let's keep it at that.

[00:20:01] So you enjoy playing the sport is a given, but if they like the coach, you know, if they've got a good rapport with the coach, that's one, um, if their friends are going, you know, so they really like to go. Um, and the third is if they are learning something new and improving. So I think these are two, three things I feel makes the kid actually go. Yeah.

[00:20:25] So when we look at somebody like myself, who now I feel is a bit of an odd sort of situation because I love any sport. Like I would go as I was playing cricket in the compound downstairs, I would sit and watch cricket matches on TV to see how they're bowling and imitate, you know, the Indian bowlers and, you know, all sorts of fanciful stuff. If I was watching the Asian games, which actually got me into playing sport, I learned cartwheeling looking at gymnastics at the Asian games.

[00:20:54] So I learned it at home on my own. So, but I was that kind of a kid. Not every kid needs to be like that. They just need to show up. Once they show up, then the love for the sport will develop. But if these sort of pieces are in order, the rapport with the coach, you know, you're just happy, you're learning, you're improving. Well, then you stick with the sport. And then when you stick and you get better, then you start enjoying it even more. Yeah. And then the love for the sport develops.

[00:21:22] When you talk about sort of learning and improving, you didn't touch your racket for months into the game, right? And then we are in this sort of world of instant gratification. And you and I are both parents. And, you know, we see our kids where it's a touch of a button and, you know, everything is here. Your, the time you took to actually hold on to a badminton racket required a lot of patience, right? Whether, do you see that as different in our generation?

[00:21:48] And, you know, what is your, I guess, guidance on how to, you know, just again, showing up, doing the same repetition, like 500,000 times before you actually make progress? Because I feel in sports, some of this is step, you know, it's a step curve, right? You do the same thing a thousand times and then all of a sudden you can improve. So what is your take on that? So if you're doing something repetitively, there's got to be a sort of favor added to it.

[00:22:19] By which I mean, say, if you're doing a drill that goes back and forth, back and forth, can I, when, at least this is what I used to do, can I sort of focus on exactly where am I contacting the shuttle? You know, what is my position to get the best quality shot? So there's a focus element to it. So you're thinking, you're not just doing it, you know, on, you know, on route or just, you know, just, you're not counting the numbers.

[00:22:48] You're counting quality with the numbers. Your focus is on that. Right. Can I try something new? Which I used to do with my coach and he used to get very frustrated. I used to ask him a lot of questions. So he said, this is the way you hit it. And I said, why? And then he would say, because. I said, no, but I feel there's another way. So he said, okay, try it. So you try to do something different. So you're thinking not only quality, but you're thinking now, you know, can I try to push little to the left, little to the right?

[00:23:19] Let me figure out what happens. In a lot of cases, you go back and tell him, okay, you were right. A lot of cases, you will understand that, yes, it can be done a different way. Right. So that is the other thing. The third thing I feel would be for the coach to actually make it fun for you. At some point in time, when it's getting too serious, you have to break that momentum, crack a joke, you know, take that little bit of surprise element.

[00:23:44] So, for example, in my sessions, and he tells me this now, towards the end, when I'm very tired and he would always push me, he said, you have to do 20 short training. And I would be really tired. And he's like, okay, 20 shots. That's it. And you push, push, push. Around the 16, 17 shots, he'd make a mistake deliberately. And he said, I'm so sorry, you know, you're not your fault, but you know, we're both. Ouch. I can feel the pain. And it was just strategically done from his end.

[00:24:13] But it was done so sweetly. And you're like, okay, chal. You know, one more. He did a flick shot and he said, arre, I thought you'd, you know, get to that. But you didn't. You know, let's try it again. So you make it fun in that sense. But so that's on court. What's off court, I think, is equally important because a lot of the kids today, I feel, resist committing to something because they feel the missing out on something else.

[00:24:41] So how do you keep the balance of that missing out? Can you, do you tell them you have to be so focused that you will not be able to attend birthday parties? You will have to get up, you know, at five o'clock every morning. You have to be disciplined in, you know, no gadgets, no. There's a balance. Very hard to sort of put in. But for me, I had a full childhood.

[00:25:08] And now when you think back saying, how is that possible? We used to travel, you know, not when it got maybe the first six months or something of my playing days, every weekend we would be in Khandala. So I had that fun and had my outdoors and I played in the mud and, you know, climb trees and do all that. I was very fond of art. So I would sit and do a lot of artwork at home. I have an older sister.

[00:25:38] So she, you know, troubling her was a pastime that that gives me immense pleasure. Oh, perfect. And, and yeah, I think just being with friends in the building, playing cricket, playing with my friends after, gave me, I love music. So I had this small, it was then called a VL tone, which had keys on it. And I would put on my Walkman, listen to a tune and then play music on my own. So I did other things also.

[00:26:07] So I didn't feel like badminton was this whole monster and I missed out on. Yeah. Did I go to birthday parties? No, because that's not something I enjoyed. But all this I, I happily did. Yeah. So just to keep all this in check. So then six years, you know, go by in a breeze and, you know, you don't really. It's very important. I can make that point. Oh yeah. You have to study. You did well.

[00:26:35] But I think it's a very important point that you make, right? Because, I mean, now that you have, we have high research and hindsight and the, you know, the ability and benefit of that. The kids who start with you early and you started at eight. But the risk of burnout is very, very high, right? Based on all these longitudinal studies, et cetera. And the ability, and I think it's the responsibility of the coach and the parent, because, you know, at the end of the day, they did to some extent a very large decision makers to actually say,

[00:27:05] okay, well, you know, I need these little breaks or the child needs to be doing art or music or something else to just, you know, build that balance. So because burnout is such an important reason why kids who are very good at the sport will actually drop out of it, right? So it's interesting. You did study as well. Now, again, I see a lot of kids and we know kids who are the age of 11 and 12 involved. They dropped out of school and are focusing on certain sports.

[00:27:35] Why was it so important for your parents or, and the balance with Masala Panisi, because you were playing seven days a week. Yeah, you know, way back then, there was no other way. I don't think sport was given as much importance to say, you know, you even think of not study. So it wasn't a choice that existed in it at that point in time. So you had to do both. Did I have to do well? No, that was a choice.

[00:28:03] Because, again, you know, my coach had clearly told me, he said, if you're a champion on court, you have to be a champion of court as well. Not to be pushing me to get excellent grades or anything, but to say the effort and the kind of person you are. If you are a disciplined person, then that discipline will come out in all the facets of your life.

[00:28:26] You can't be disciplined just in badminton and then need a very sort of contradictory life outside. So for me, studying happened just because I could not go to school without my homework done. I guess this wasn't me. So I've never done that. I've never gone to school without homework done. If you're playing tournaments and in our school, I was in J.B. Pettit High School. And the principal was very insistent that she would not give me leave if my grades dropped. And I was a very good student.

[00:28:56] So I had to push to keep my grades up. And anything that happened that sort of put my badminton at risk, I was very, very serious. So put your attention to that. And I genuinely enjoyed learning, which was, again, the same thing. If you enjoy learning badminton, then you enjoy learning other things as well. Do you beat yourself down if you don't get the highest marks in class? No. But do you keep your level to what it is and don't let it drop?

[00:29:26] You can always do that and try and get better. But badminton was where my focus was. That is where I put my first sort of tranche of energy. And then my studies would be done, but they would be done. So say at the age of 12, right, when you went in for your competitive level, what was a typical day like? And I'm asking this from a perspective for a parent who, again, wants their child and the child wants to do it. And they want to kind of balance the two.

[00:29:55] What was a day like for you, you know, on the court and then after that to maintain grades? Because I was a poor eater. I was a poor eater. And we, as a family, didn't cook and get home. We were not allowed. So this is something that I could have in school and at home. Do that at 10 o'clock. School finished at about 1.45. I would pick my school bag up and walk to Valarpea where my dad's office was.

[00:30:25] I would then have my lunch there. I would rest my head on his desk and sleep, take a bit of a nap. And then head to CCI club at around 3 o'clock in the afternoon. Play from 3 to 5.30. Dad would come and pick me up at 5.30. And he and mom would sit on the lawn till about 6 o'clock, have their tea. By which time I would be listening to music on the lawn just lying down. Now I realize it was a great time because I would reflect on the session,

[00:30:53] which is something now that sports psychologists say is very important. I would do that and then head home at 6 o'clock. If I had to study, I would study in the car if there was enough daylight. Otherwise, I would get home, nap in the car, take that bit of rest, get home, shower, dinner, sit to do my homework. And sometimes, not sometimes, a lot of times I would be doing my homework till 1 o'clock, 2 o'clock at night and then get up the next morning in school again.

[00:31:23] And do it all over again. And do it all over again. And yeah, without any issue. Your story seems, have you read the book Atomic Habits? It's essentially small habits over a long period of time. So micro habits over a long period of time have this insane or substantially good outcome. So your story just fits in, right? Doing the same thing slowly, like every single day.

[00:31:49] For yours, you know, it basically leads to an Olympian. But see, it's not only my habits, right? That's what we get wrong. It's also mom and dad's habits. Yeah. Because 10 o'clock, my milkshake was there. You know, at 1.45, there was somebody to sort of walk home to school when I was younger. But otherwise, I'd walk on my own. When I became 11 and 12, I could do that on my own. Mom being there or to take me to the club, there was somebody there.

[00:32:17] Dinner was ready at whatever, 7, 7.30 when I got back. So it's the habits of everyone. It's not only my habits. And unless everyone keeps up, like my coach being there at 3 o'clock every day. He was also working. He was working at a bank. So he had to rush out, finish his work and come at 3 o'clock. So it's the environment. It's the ecosystem. It always is. And one thing slips up there, then you have a problem.

[00:32:45] So we think that the athlete has to be disciplined. No, it's everyone around has to play a role. Yeah. Yeah. And being a sports parent is very hard. Yeah. It's actually a very common thread that, you know, based on my discussions I've had with other professional athletes as well, where a very supportive ecosystem has led to getting them where they are, right?

[00:33:14] The minute, like you said, something does not add up, you can't get there. And yeah, I mean, for your parents, for a sports parent to know the sacrifices that go in to get your child on a pedestal is remarkable. And a lot of times, as a parent, we just want to do what's best for the child, right? Now you can call them a sacrifices or not.

[00:33:38] But if the kid has to be at the court at 3 o'clock, you don't necessarily assume the kid's not very talented. It is not going to make a career in it. And the kid enjoys playing. Would you still take the kid? You would, right? As a parent, you do these things. Yeah. You know, and a lot of parents do these things. And I think we sometimes don't realize till we become parents ourselves that, you know, how special this is to the kid. Yeah.

[00:34:05] And how much it furthers their, because we can't read into the future. We don't know what they're going to be like. We don't know what the outcome, you know, of these small things we do for them is going to be like. But we've got to do them. And it's not only your physical sort of, you know, input into the child's life, but also what you, how you are around them, what you're saying to them, what you're expecting of them. That puts this kind of pressure. Can you keep, you know, their mind happy?

[00:34:35] Can you keep it light? Can you, can you be on the same page with them in terms of their ambitions? Like your ambition might be high, but Tez is here. Can you find that strength and resist that temptation to say you're not still good enough? And why are you thinking? Rather than, you know, going down and then, you know, walking the journey with them. Rather than, you know, trying to push all the time. It's hard. It's extremely hard.

[00:35:02] But can you not discuss the politics of sport in the house? Can you not, you know, sort of push them to a stage where every time they don't do well that they have to give you an excuse? Can you accept it? So it's a lot of what we think also that makes a difference. Like as a coach, my coach always put in certain goals for me. But when he put in that goal, after that, he's saying we're a team.

[00:35:32] We will achieve this together. And if you lose, it's as much my responsibility as it is yours. So that kind of thinking, I think, makes a lot of difference. So tell me on the conversation that you said, you know, for your ecosystem to be there. Can you tell me about one particular conversation, say that when you had with your parents, which, you know, gave you that boost of confidence that, hey, you know, it's not me. And it's all of us in there.

[00:36:00] Because I think that itself is such a motivation, isn't it? So, you know, oddly enough, I don't think I've ever had a conversation with my parents on my performance. But their contribution was actually not discussing my performance at all. Unless I would explicitly go and ask one of them, how do you think I played when I wasn't too sure.

[00:36:30] But that was an initiation from my end. Otherwise, never did they say anything. That was my coach's job to give me feedback and to tell me how I played. My coach, my mom would sit in the first row to watch my matches because she loved to watch me play. My coach would be in the last row or not in my line of sight at all. So he'd say, you're on the court. It's your thing.

[00:37:00] After that, yes, he will help me. So, in a way, it was all of us sort of doing our own thing in a way. But the planning was so good and the sync was so good that it didn't really matter. When I was practicing, when my mom used to come, she had this sound she would make when I made a mistake, which was... And that was the most irritating sound to me ever. You wanted to avoid it, of course. No, so I just told her. I said, you know, whatever. You want to shout?

[00:37:30] You know, you want to, you know, punish me in any way? You want to... Just don't make that sound. Because that irritated me. Because a parent's validation for a child is extremely important. Like the world could say something to you. But if your parents don't agree with that, there is something in you that will stay and you won't be satisfied. Yeah. And that's my belief. So, to get...

[00:37:58] So, when that happened, it was like, mom's not happy. Translation. I've done something wrong. Translation. So, I said, just don't do that. You know, after that you shout. That's fine. So, understanding as a parent, you know, what happens when you react in a particular way, I think becomes critical. Also, as a parent realizing that this is not my domain and to trust the coach with it.

[00:38:28] And sometimes not doing anything is a huge contribution. When I spoke to you earlier, you described your coach as your guru and you as his shishya. Honestly, that's a very... That's... There's a lot of weight in those words, right? There's a lot of sanctity in it. So, tell me a little bit more about that.

[00:38:51] And in your opinion, now that, again, you've lived through your coach and multiple coaches after that, what is the role of a coach for an athlete who makes it? You know, when research was done to see, you know, why some athletes become successful and some don't, there's a huge correlation between the coach and the athlete.

[00:39:15] So, when that relationship is good, the chances of, you know, the success are much higher. Now, what do you define by a good relationship, right? One is, of course, the proficiency of both. The talent on one side and, you know, the knowledge and the coach has to be a good coach. He has to know. But at a younger age, you know, when you start off, there's a lot of nurturing that cousin.

[00:39:43] Because the kid is not only learning the sport, but the kid is also learning about life. Yeah. Right? Because we say, you know, sport is a microcosm of life. Now, as athletes, we learn that we learn a lot about life very early on in our lives and at a very young age.

[00:40:04] So, to have the right mentor to actually see you through that values in terms of your habits, in terms of your sort of understanding of the world. So, I'll give you a couple of examples. They come to values.

[00:40:25] My coach, he said, if the shuttle is only space, like near the line, and you're not sure, pick it up and the benefit goes to the opponent. Just give the shuttle back. Don't keep that shuttle. Don't think you've won the point. Just give it back if you're unsure. Will you ever question the judgment of a linesman or a chair empire? Never. You will never argue. You will never question. That's their job. Accept and move on.

[00:40:54] Will you behave badly with an opponent? No. He said, the day I see these things happening, you will not come to me for coaching. So, that was, again, assumed like you love the sport so much, again, a threat. Maybe I won't get to play. So, you know, this got impulcated, you know, on its own. Habits.

[00:41:16] He taught me that when you're playing a match, you need to get, and this was way before, you know, we're talking about a sports psychologist that we're talking about, nutrition that we're talking about. He said, this is the way you do it. You have your lunch, then you take a one-hour break. You sleep for maximum 30 minutes or 40 minutes. Thereafter, you get ready. Come to the court. You warm up for half an hour. You're on the court. After playing your match, you're off. You do your stretching.

[00:41:43] After that, if you want, you can talk and meet people. Believe it or not, I followed that like from I was 11 years old till I retired. It's exactly the same routine before every match. If you can help it. Sometimes you're going to stadiums far or, you know, maybe you've had two matches back to back, then you adjust. But by and large, this was the routine. So that habit was formed then.

[00:42:10] And then when it comes to actually figuring out lies and people around you, there were negative people who were not so happy about your success. Yeah. Right. And he would very smartly, when I was very young, when I was warming up and he saw somebody coming towards me, he would stand in the way so that they didn't come and tell me anything. You're not looking sick. You know, that girl is playing well. I think you might not have a chance.

[00:42:40] All that was blocked out. And he told, and he would just stand there. At that point, I didn't know why he was standing. I thought he was checking whether I was doing my warm-up properly. But he was blocking all this out. Later, he told me, he said, you know, there are certain people, don't. When you play a match and when you come out, these are not the things that you need to do. So, navigating people, navigating life, navigating opponents.

[00:43:05] He's saying, when the score, when you're winning two, three points, at that point in time, he said, sir, don't do anything down. Don't do anything up there. Don't look up. Don't look up. Don't look up. Don't look up. Don't look up. Don't look up. Don't look up. Don't look up.

[00:43:35] Don't look up. So, never let me sit with the achievement for too long and set my ambitious goals. And if I didn't do well, which I didn't a lot of the times and I played badly, he's told me things like, not in a disrespectful way, but he's saying, you know, is this how I taught you to play? Is this what I expected of you? So, you'd also be able to soak in that. So, it wasn't always kind and nice by no means. Yeah.

[00:44:05] But, but say it and then after that to be able to put, you know, his arm around you and say, let's go, you know, and let's go together. So, you know, that's how it should be. I mean, I think the relationship between a student and a coach, I think the parents, especially now we have so many coaches around and just navigating, getting the right coach. So, your child is so important with, like you said, there's the IQ and their ability and their skills. But as important as EQ, right?

[00:44:35] Because how do the level of nurture required by age, at what point do you start pushing and then the discipline, etc. It has to be a very mature mindset for a coach to actually say, well, you know, this is how we do it and have even these tough conversations, right? You know, every stage, this is my childhood coach, who I stuck with till I was 16. In fact, it was on his initiation that I actually shifted to Bangalore to train with Prakash Padukone.

[00:45:04] Because he said, he said, whatever I could do for you, I have done. And he's saying, now it's time for you to move on to someone who now can take you to the next level. And it was hard for him because I almost was like, he probably spent more time with me than he spent with his own kids. So for him, it was like losing, you know, a child and child moving away. But he was gracious enough to actually make me do it and force me to do it in many ways.

[00:45:31] So when I shifted to Bangalore, that was a very different kind of coaching and a very different kind of approach and relationship to coaching, right? And then when I shifted to my third coach later on, that was again very different. So what's some of the key differences, Bangalore, Axiomstein, you know, doing that alone? What was that coaching like? And then beyond Bangalore? So Bangalore was for me, again, Prakash Padukone was like this huge idol.

[00:46:00] And I was completely awestruck. Like in many ways, I still am because of who he is. Just him being the role model that he is. And he's a man of your world. So you wouldn't talk so much to us. But just the way he played, the way he showed up for training, the way, you know, he was thinking while he was training us, the way he pushed. So there was no space for excuses.

[00:46:27] Like with him, I don't think any of us in the academy had the guts to go up and tell him, oh, I'm tired. I can't do that set. So we just like just soaking and, you know, you know, all the pain and, you know, all the lack of oxygen in so many ways. And you should go on and perform.

[00:46:46] And his level, right, of play and his approach to the game was so high that we didn't want to sort of disappoint him in many ways. So we pulled our game up as much as we could to his level in most cases. But he was the gold standard. And he demanded that of us.

[00:47:15] He not only demanded that we perform at that level, but our effort was at that level. So if the focus dropped slightly in a training session and he was training us, he'd just walk off the court. And he'd go on another court and start training someone else. So for us, that was like the worst possible situation. And that was feedback for you. So there again and again, because you're on your own. I was on my own. Family was in Bombay.

[00:47:43] There were a lot of other habits that you had to bring in. But that was like really now the accountability was all yours. So that kind of coaching, again, seven days a week. And now out of the seven days a week, three days of the week were three sessions a day. So it was exhausting. There was no real time for too much else. And the sessions were intense because we were looking at physical training.

[00:48:13] Specifically, we were looking at on-court coaching and the intensity was much, much higher. So that was extremely tough, but at a good time. And then when I shift to the Sports Authority of India, training center under Mr. Gangli Prasad, that was more of a sort of friendly sort of coaching. Because by then I'd already established myself and won many national championships. I'd played the Olympics already.

[00:48:41] But I learned so, so much from him that I hadn't realized before. So for me, it was like, you know, this can be possible. And I probably became one of my fittest, you know, training under him. Because he was just so good at the program part of it. Right. The technique of the sport. So, yeah, it's very different. I would touch upon, again, the Bangalore piece. You were alone. Parents back here. There had to be hard days, right?

[00:49:10] And again, on the mental side of things. How did you cope? Being away from parents. What were the hard days like? How did you cope? So, on my 16th birthday, which was in January, and mom asked me, so what do you want for your birthday gift? And I said, I want to shift to Bangalore. Ouch. And mom was like, very, very bittersweet sort of situation. What do I do? I gave my ICSC in March that year.

[00:49:40] And within a week of finishing my last paper, I shifted to Bangalore. So, I stayed as a paying guest. And my parents had to get me a two-wheeler to get about down. And now, being in the South Pondi, I had no exposure to two-wheelers. So, I had to learn how to ride a bike. The biggest change for me was getting to training in the morning.

[00:50:07] There was a time I was getting up at 4 o'clock in the morning to go. So, because in the gym, I was a junior. I was just 16. And the seniors would come and hog all the equipment in the gym. So, I had to get to the gym before them. So, I would leave home at 4.15. So, I'd get up at 4 o'clock. And it was dark and all by then. And then, it'd be on your two-wheelers. That wasn't the hard part. The hard part was actually hearing the alarm clock. Because when I was in Bombay, I could not hear the alarm.

[00:50:38] Like, the alarm would ring. My sister would wake up. She'd kick me. Wake me up. And then, I'd go on with the day. In Bangalore, there's not a single day I didn't hear the alarm clock. So, that was like a switch. Because I was on my own and I knew I had no choice. The food there was very different than what I was used to at home. Because I was at a paying desk, there was no food available. So, I had to go to this auntie who would provide me food.

[00:51:07] And she'd tie a dabba and a plastic packet on her door latch. So, I would take that and then eat and then put that dabba, take the lunch dabba. So, three times a day, I would be going up and down to her place to sort of collect my food. Figuring out how to get my clothes ironed. Like, really weird things, right? Like, milk. If I had to have milk, at that point, there were no Tetra Pax. Yeah. So, you'd get the packet.

[00:51:35] You wouldn't get less than a liter of milk. So, now if I drink like a quarter of a liter, where do I keep the rest? So, now how do I sort of figure out small things like that? I couldn't be in touch with mum and dad as often as I wanted to because there were no mobile phones. Yeah. So, I would stand outside the STD booth at nine o'clock because that's when the STD rates dropped to 50%. Yeah.

[00:51:59] And then if I was lucky, I'd get to have a conversation with them without somebody knocking on the booth. And so, I would speak to them only once, maybe every day, maybe every alternate day because staying awake till nine o'clock also, I'd be so tired. It would be a stretch for me. You know, there were days I'd come home from my third session at sort of seven o'clock, 6, 13th evening. I'd just lie in my bed with my tracksuit and I'd wake up the next morning, you know, not knowing, you know, what happened.

[00:52:29] So, you know, things like this were there. It was also hard for me being an introvert to actually be around people and now sort of make friends in many ways. I learned to ask for second helpings of food, which otherwise I wouldn't ever do. Like, I'd just eat what I was given. By an introvert, that's difficult. And it was stranger, right? Yeah. But then you realize if you don't open your mouth, you're not going to get that yummy food which you might or might not get. You don't know when next. Yeah.

[00:52:57] Things like that, handling sessions that were not good. Sometimes you're injured and you're in pain. There's no one to complain to because you wouldn't day go back to your coach and say, I can't do this session because it's hurting. So, just things like that, that like everyday stuff that you've got to cope with apart from keeping up, you know, your performance in the sport. Because again, I was national champion, you know, in the age group level.

[00:53:25] So, I keep up that performance and also navigating education. I was in Mount Camel College. Yeah. Going to college in between all this and managing studies. But did you have a mentor at that part? It just seems, when I'm listening to you, it seems incredibly hard to get through it. I know it was, I think when you're in it, it's probably, you know, you're so mission driven. But on days when, I mean, the motivation waned or you were really tired, who did you turn to or was it your calls with your parents at nine?

[00:53:54] Okay. So, look, I knew I had people. I knew I had people I could trust. Not necessarily that I would go and tell them anything, but I knew they were there for me. I had a great bunch of friends who I was very close to by then because, you know, when you're at that 16, 18, 20 stage, the friendships you make are very different. Yeah. I had a great bunch of friends. None of them had anything to do with sport.

[00:54:24] So, for me, that was like sort of the balance that I required in my life. And I knew when things got hard, I would try to, you know, face them myself in many ways. And I love reading about philosophy and I love, you know, having all these conversations about balance and being a stoic, which naturally I am, which is a good thing.

[00:54:51] So, I think a lot of that came handy when I was in Bangalore on my own. Having said that, you can be who you are, but it's the people around you that sort of make a huge difference. Interesting. And I want to talk about this one again, just going back to the mental strength. I heard about one of the championships where you were told that your match is in the evening. And I think it was the finals.

[00:55:19] And then it was actually in the morning and you had an hour to make it there. Tell me about that. And what was going through your mind? How did you navigate it? And what was the outcome? So, this was actually the Commonwealth Games in 2002. In 98, I had won a silver at the Commonwealth. So, this year was again expected to medal.

[00:55:45] The previous day, what happens typically is once the day's play is done, then they sit and make the schedule for the next day. But I played my match and I had left the stadium. The stadium was about an hour away from the village, the Commonwealth Games village where the athletes were staying. So, I was told that I would be informed as to when my match would be the next day and that I could go back to the village and rest and all that.

[00:56:15] The conversation was that if I was sleeping, that somebody would leave a note for me under my, you know, slipped under my room door. So that when I wake up in the morning, I probably knew where my match was. And if it was in the evening, then it's fine. I would be told verbally. I woke up in the morning, there was no note. So, I assumed that, okay, my match is in the evening. And as the routine goes, I would go to the ground.

[00:56:42] I would run a bit, warm up, stretch out, have my breakfast, come back. And then the routine towards closing towards the match. As I was heading out of the dorm to go to the ground, again, no mobile phones at that one time. So, at that time, the dorm phone rang. And luckily for me, like I turned back and I answered the phone with my dad. And he said, all the best. You know, you have your match in a few hours. How are you feeling? I'm prepared. I said, what few hours? I said, my match is in the evening. And he said, no.

[00:57:12] As for the schedule, it says it's in the morning. And I said, like literally, I said, dad, bye. You know, and I just slammed the phone. And the rest of the routine was staying in the other block. So, I sprinted. And I knocked on their door. And I asked the coaches. I said, you know what? Am I chasing? Yeah, son. Your match is at 11 o'clock. And it was 8 o'clock at that point in time. 8, 8, 30.

[00:57:40] I turned and I sprinted back. Somehow packed my bag. Took the bag. Ran to the dining hall. Picked up like some flavored milk, one tetra pack and, you know, some bread in my hand. Whatever I could grab. And I ran to the bus, you know, where the buses leave to the venue. Again, I had no idea what time the bus. Because the venue is one hour away, right?

[00:58:07] If I didn't get the right bus, you know, I would have to wait, say, for an hour. And I completely missed the match. Somehow, you know, got. Luckily, there was a bus. Got to the venue. I reached 15 minutes before my match. I hardly had time to warm up. This was the quarterfinals. If I'd won, I would be guaranteed a medal. And if I'd lost, there would be no medal.

[00:58:30] And for that one hour on that bus ride, to actually just to think, you know, what all could have gone wrong and how angry you were. You know, and just to understand the gravity of the situation. But to also know that you have to be sane enough to then go back and perform. And this was, you know, to get out of this mindset and get back into. So just handling all those emotions was extremely difficult.

[00:58:59] But because over the years, you've had situations. You've known what is required to be done. You have the maturity to realize that this is more important than the priorities. You are not necessarily here. And remember one thing always that when the time is done and the match is over, no matter what excuse you have and rationale you have, that will never come back.

[00:59:26] So to know this was your chance, take it after that you can do whatever. But for a young girl to sort of have these couple of hours of complete, I want to say the emotional wreckage. Yeah. Chaos, right? That's happening. But know that you have to perform and this is an important match. And you said you've gone through the situation. So is this part of your personality? Is this taught by your trainers, coaches?

[00:59:54] Because my heart rate is high right now. Just listening to your story. How is that sort of done? I think it happens over a period of time. A lot of it is just because of the experiences you've had. And all of us have had certain experiences in our life. It's me, say, with the sport. But it could be you with something else. Right? And it could be a third person with something else. And that's how we become who we are. Yeah. Because of what we've gone through and what we've experienced.

[01:00:23] And just the fact is, and that's where the line, right? To realize that this is your moment. And it will never come back. What that does really is to put you in a spot to say you have no choice. And sometimes when we give ourselves no choice, that's when we realize what we're capable of. So, putting, stringing all this together.

[01:00:49] And if this happens in an ordinary situation in life for me today, I will say these exact words back to myself. You have no choice. This is the time. And know that there will be something inside you that will help you manage and navigate the situation. That's what, you know, situations like this does. And that's why we say sport is so important. The sport puts you in this situation many, many times.

[01:01:17] What a fascinating, fascinating playing journey you've had. Let me break it up a little bit now. Should we do a quick rapid fire? Absolutely. All right. So, I'm going to ask you a few questions. Keep the answers, breeze and weed. We'll see where we come out. Best thing about being an Olympian? I don't know. Just the time. I think it's just the time. It's like 0.0002% or something make the Olympics. Yeah.

[01:01:47] Obnoxiously low. And I think just the journey to it. One thing, your younger self would be shocked or surprised by badminton today? Just at the level of importance that the sport has earned. Saina Neval in three words. Gritty. As a quick learner.

[01:02:15] And, yeah, a huge old one. The badminton shirt you were most proud of? My cross-court four-hand halfway. Any pre-match superstition? Planet oil. Wow. Questionable food you ate on tour? Octopus. Oh. The opponent who scared you most? The Chinese.

[01:02:44] The Chinese players. Zumi in particular. Yeah. One word for the 2006 final. Blessed at the end of it. Retirement, relief or heartbreak? Retirement. Was it relief or heartbreak or anything else? Rathitude. Your most embarrassing moment on court?

[01:03:12] Actually, just before my match where I was warming up in the space in the dark and I cut my nose because of a net string that was pulled all the way to the wall that I didn't see. So when people ask me what happened, I had to come up with some story. Fancy excuse. That was embarrassing. Favourite city you competed in? Country, Denmark. Oh, nice. The short you never quite mastered?

[01:03:41] Forehand cross-court at the net. Just because my left-hander coach hits it so much better and more gracefully and with more reception. And somehow I just keep saying I'm a righty so I can't get that short to a girl. What do you miss about being 16? Oh, my two-wheeler. Oh, sweet. So Farhana, let's move on a little bit and talk about a girl in sport.

[01:04:07] You came up and you played sport at a time when I think things were very different. The crowds, so the audience, the money, attention all was focused towards the males, right? And then you came in, you carved a niche for yourself. In your second innings, you carved a niche for yourself in corporate as well, which we'll get to.

[01:04:30] But tell me a little bit more around what was the ecosystem like or environment was for girls in sport at your time? Obviously, there weren't too many girls who played sport. And if you played sport, you were typically labeled as a tomboy. Meaning to say that sports was for boys and not for the girls. And that you were doing something that was against your natural being in some way.

[01:04:59] Of course, there were considerations. We see a lot of athletes now talk about their childhood and say, you know, they weren't allowed to go out and play in the sun because they'd get dark and things like that. But yeah, I think culturally, you know, playing sport wasn't something that was looked upon kindly. And it was odd. It was difficult in the sense that if you went for sports coaching, the majority of the kids would be boys.

[01:05:27] And then you, you know, there'd be one or two girls. So it wasn't as inclusive as it is today. And then when you, maybe the other thing was, of course, a lot of coaches were male. Yeah. So again, that little bit of, for me, we come from a traditional Gujarati family. So it's not only that the parents would allow the girl to play sport, but then the parents would have to have enough to defend that the girl is playing sport.

[01:05:55] So they had their challenges at home. Yeah. As well, you know, the family with the taunts and with the, but yeah, I think once you played sport and then, of course, you go on to competing, which I did later, then that had a different sort of flavor to it. But at that point in time, yeah, I think playing sport, you'd, it's a tomboy tag. But did you see for girls in general, and you know, you got through it and say your peers, etc.

[01:06:22] The girls, did it deter them or was it, did it, did you see it convert to motivation for a number of them? Yeah. I don't think, you know, if you have to like break this cultural barrier, I think just one kid with motivation is not going to cut it. Because then, as I said, everything in the, in the environment has to also play a role. Right. Yeah.

[01:06:44] But the way I look at it, like when many years later, I used to work at Indian Oil Corporation and we would have matches, cricket matches for the women. And these were like typical Maharashtrian, you know, housewives sort of, you know, typical those kind of women who'd also work at Indian Oil and who are my colleagues. And then we'd have a match that some of them were really talented, like they'd read the spins well, you know, they'd play well.

[01:07:10] And then I'm thinking to myself, what if they had an opportunity to play sport? Probably a lot of them would have played well. And they loved playing. So come that time of year when the cricket match, you could see that buzz in the office saying, you know, hey, you know, you're in the team would be divided floor wise. And they'd see which floor has a stronger team and, you know, this, that and the other. So the excitement was there. So that is one thing.

[01:07:34] The other thing is like my sister, for example, she was not very sporty and she couldn't play to one sport because she had asthma. But being the oldest sibling, had she tried to play sport? I think the resistance would have been even better. Being the younger sibling, you get away with a lot. There are a lot of mischief and playfulness and hence it led to sport in some way. But yeah, I think just motivation is not enough.

[01:08:02] It's also society that needs to accept it enough. Maybe they won't accept it fully, but accept it enough to let the kid and let the girl be in sport. And what about on the other side, right? Were the coaches sort of inviting? Were there enough tournaments for girls? You know, because at some point there is the demand where you want, you hear there are various tournaments, etc. Which act as drag girls and then there's the supply of the girls in sport. So what was that demand side? I think the numbers are few.

[01:08:31] Then there wouldn't be any tournaments and there wouldn't be any spaces of, you know, actually including the girls. But that also went a long way even when you're playing seriously. Right. The girls playing sport. There's this thing that I believe, right? That generally it was looked on as the boys and the men play for achievement and the girls play for entertainment.

[01:08:58] Means even if the girls coming to play, it's just like, yeah, okay, it's very casual. She'll play, she'll go home and the boys really want to do well and, you know, win. And so the coaching then sort of attention at coaching becomes such. Later on, even when we went to national camps, for example, the new shuttles would be given to the boys and the semi-use shuttles would be given to the girls.

[01:09:23] If there were two courts that had difference in terms of this court was maybe more true or less slippery or whatever, the boys would play there and the girls would play. Because they anyway don't hit hard and they anyway don't move as fast as the boys do. And they anyway are not, you know, looking for that level of achievement. And so, you know, there was a slight compromise on that side.

[01:09:44] So a lot of these things sort of then, you know, see through two different things that you do in sport in terms of the accessibility you have or the visibility that you have or the encouragement that you. So small things but have a big impact and sort of become a stereotype then. And then you could either do one of two things, accept that this is what it is and get on with your journey or you sit to fight it.

[01:10:15] And then, you know, try to pull out your way through that resistance. Yeah. So, yeah, but it was definitely there in a lot of ways it still is. Yeah. I mean, it's actually a little disappointing, right? Because you have to work twice as hard. You deal with lesser quality of things and then you get a fraction of the attention. And then finding that motivation, I think it's it wouldn't have been sort of easy.

[01:10:40] But as we stand today, right, badminton as a sport in India has, you know, has taken athletes to starting, you know, with you and some before you and then after you to the Olympics, right? The highest level of this sport. Has the system genuinely changed? And what is that like now?

[01:11:02] I think it's it's hugely changed at the elite level just because we've had such fantastic performances by female athletes. Right. They've become huge role models and they've not only become role models in terms of inspiration, but they've become role models in terms of endorsements. Yeah. In terms of, you know, it's it's OK to give visibility. Yeah.

[01:11:30] But I think, you know, you've cracked it when the visibility is followed by a financial commitment. And now we see that, like, for example, Sindhu has been on the Forbes, you know, list of highest paid female athletes. Right. So she's in the top 15 of that. And we talk about female athletes across the world. Yeah. And she's an Indian on that list. So there's a huge aspiration now.

[01:11:55] And hence, of course, the athletes are much more visible and they're visible because the performances have been great. Initially, like why Saina becomes important is because she was the one who actually broke through in many ways. But now the support for female athletes has gone up tremendously. In fact, we were just discussing this the other day. This was, of course, many years ago.

[01:12:20] But saying that if we go to a layman on the street and we ask them, can you name top five Indian athletes? You know, how many female athletes will they actually come up with? You know, with names off. So there was Mary Com at that time. There was Saina at that time. And then there were a lot of other sort of female athletes that you'd name Sanya Mirza that would just come out. Correct. But for the male athletes at that sort of point in time, they would have to think.

[01:12:48] And for us, that was a tremendous win and gave us so much satisfaction. But these girls have earned it. And now that they've earned it, you see the kind of participation there is in sport. At the grassroot level, things really have to get better, especially when it comes to the safety aspect of it. But having said that, I think we're in a good space. You know, the girls are doing well. The women's cricket team performance was a huge high. Yeah.

[01:13:17] You know, because it's cricket, but also because of the way they played. Yeah. I think for me, the biggest takeaway from that performance was that nobody's ever going to doubt the level of women's cricket again. Yeah. So I think these are the things that are falling into place. The government's been extremely supportive to female athletes. So all in all, we're in a great space and we can expect a lot more medals from them at the international level.

[01:13:44] I think that you mentioned, right, because there is a lot of justification for the family to make for their child or the girl child in sport. And when you have names like Jamima, Harman, Preet, you know, Assayna, P.V. Sindhu, etc. I think that just makes it so much, so much easier for them.

[01:14:04] But there is a research that I was reading where, you know, a lot of girls drop out of sport around the puberty age. And this is, you know, of course, there's menstruation, which is an issue, change in body. The fact that, of course, you know, the sun and our idea of what a girl should basically look like, which is sort of ingrained in society. Lack of role models, not enough women coaches.

[01:14:31] And that has been that sort of, you know, some very key factors in keeping them out. What are we doing to sort of change that? Of course, now that among girls and, you know, people we can look up to. But are you seeing, again, changes there where some of these issues are addressed? So sometimes there's a good reason.

[01:14:55] I wouldn't say drop out of sport, but to redirect yourself to something else at that stage, which is fine. Which is because then you start, you know, trying to think of your future and what you want to do. When we look at girls dropping out, like all the reasons that you mentioned, you know, are extreme valid and common. As to as to as to why they drop out. My sense is that.

[01:15:22] When when I spoke about safety, I don't necessarily mean safety in in a way to actually where they feel, you know, maybe at at a threat in many ways. But also to have a safe space where they can express themselves while they're going through this phase, which means having the right people around who are accepting and patient and understanding of the situation.

[01:15:48] Maybe have a group of other girls around and playing only in a selling sports in an only girl school. Visibly visibly a co-ed school is very different. Correct. Yeah. Right. So just keeping that in mind, like, can you make those sort of spaces? Can you make the adjustments that are required, you know, in terms of the providing infrastructure in terms of good changing rooms at that point in time?

[01:16:16] Can you give them a safe space to come and talk if, you know, they have something on their mind? Yeah. And accept all that and just make it pleasant for them. So not, I would say at that stage, even if they don't want to play a sport or pursue it with the same amount of time commitment, but don't stop moving. Don't stop your fitness.

[01:16:42] Don't stop physical activity in that sense, because then getting back to it might become difficult. Yeah. And you don't have to. Like, it's okay, you don't want to commit to something, say, four days a week or do it twice a week. You can cut it down, but don't stop it. Right. And that's what we need to kind of find ways to keep them, you know, in the physical activity space and not put pressure on them.

[01:17:09] And are you seeing this in sort of schools and then beyond schools where you've also been, now you're within the system, right? You have, you are on the Kelo India Committee. You have been on the badminton Gurukul, you know, getting the right infrastructure, etc. Are you seeing that there is conversation around it on how do we make this better for girls in school? I think the people who are around them at that point in time become very, very important.

[01:17:35] In fact, yesterday I met this girl who I used to coach many years ago. And there's just one example. And we have a tournament every six months. And this girl came and said, you know, missed it. All the other players are a little younger. The kids are younger and I don't play as well as them. And, you know, I don't want to be a disappointment and I'm feeling conscious and I'm very, very nervous. And I don't want to put my name for the tournament.

[01:18:06] And I remember having a conversation with her and I said, do you trust me? Do you think that I will put you in a situation that's not good for you deliberately? And if such situation came, do you trust that I will be there to make it better? So do you feel that that will happen? I think you can play the tournament. I really want you to play the tournament. It's a weekend tournament, Sunday and Sunday.

[01:18:34] For my sake, will you show up on Saturday? And this is the conversation I had with her. The kid came. She showed up on Saturday. Not only did I make her play the tournament, I made her the vice captain of a team that we had. Not the captain because I knew she was nervous, but a vice captain of a team. I said, now take up this whole thing. And when I met her yesterday and she said, that's one of the best things you could have done for me. Right. Right.

[01:19:03] So having those kind of people around to actually just give that little nudge, that little support, that little understanding at that point could really make a difference to keep a girl in sport. Yeah. It's important. And I think these are conversations which need to be had. There is so much potential in our numbers. And honestly, I think girls, the motivation just given, you know, the platform we sort of are given, it's just skyrocket. And let them hunt in packs.

[01:19:33] Yeah. Like make a group of girls who are really thick and say like, you know, protect each other and say, you know, there is, you know, your finger against any one of us. And, you know, we're coming at you. So to have that kind of, you know, to make, you know, do all these things to actually really help. Amen to that. Now tell me, because you have also beyond sport, you have a role in sort of corporate India, right?

[01:20:01] If I may say so, and you're doing this at the, at a very high capacity in the sports ecosystem. Then, of course, you're a director on, you know, on certain boards, et cetera. From your experience in sport, what does playing sport do to a girl beyond sport? So, I think just so many things, right?

[01:20:26] Like, the, it gives you confidence and it gives you validation in terms of, in sport, you have to make a lot of decisions. Yeah. So, and you have to make the decisions on your own and you have to make the decisions in a situation. Yeah. And then you have to own that decision. And then you have to bear the consequences of that decision. And sometimes the small decisions, sometimes they're very big decisions. Sometimes they go your way, sometimes they don't.

[01:20:54] So, just the confidence to know that you can make the decision and you're not second guessing yourself. That's one. I think just the self-esteem that it brings, that's the other one. The third thing is just, you know, you can feel good when you work out, when you're part of a team. When you succeed, you celebrate together. When you lose, you know you have people, you know, with you. Yeah.

[01:21:23] And just that feeling of the bonding that you're not alone and that you're a team. And I think most importantly, the spirit of competition. Yeah. To say that this is my goal and I'm going to attack the goal. I'm going to prepare for it really hard. I have the capacity. I have the work ethic. You know, I have the focus to actually be single-minded and going for a particular goal and then achieving it.

[01:21:53] So, I think just that whole journey to actually achieving and being competitive, sometimes against somebody to say that, you know, I will see that I be better than you. Right. And sometimes it's saying that, you know, in spite, like you can be doing well as well, but I'm going to run my race. I'm not competing against you directly. But yeah, you know, you're the standard that I want to meet and then further. Yeah.

[01:22:20] So, just that kind of competition to have that drive to actually go and achieve. Yeah. I think makes a huge, huge difference. Yeah. So, I think because both our girls play sport as well, right? And one thing which my daughter, I remember seeing him and I thought about, you know, dealing with setbacks and resilience and how any sport and just life in general sort of get that.

[01:22:45] So, she had gone for a tournament and she went through the whole sort of tournament and there was this one routine she really was very good at. And somehow she got some timing wrong or something. And her marks, her points fell and she missed bronze by like 0.05. I wish it was rounded off to 0.1 because then she would have equalized. But I remember on that flight, I was feeling so bad.

[01:23:14] Like, I was, you know, literally. And she was, I looked at her and she was reading a book. And I actually, Narita and I told her, I said, you know, I'm feeling really bad about this. And she looked at me and she said, Mama, you know, you told me now. And I'm like, let's just move on. We can move on. We'd learn from it and move on. And she went back to reading her book. And the rest of the flight, I think I teared up because I said, wow, where did she get that from, right? And it's nothing that I had taught her.

[01:23:42] It's just her going through it and basically coming out on the other side and then going back again, right? Practicing and sort of going back, I think was a big, big one for me. So I think one thing that also came through sport was, you know, we keep telling people that life's not fair. And it isn't. In sport, just the example that you gave, right? Typically, a 0.5 would be a 1.

[01:24:10] Like mathematically, that's the correct way to do things. Did they do the right thing? Maybe not. Correct? By rounding it down. And in sport, that happens so many times because at the end of the day, the human being is involved. And there are agendas involved. And there are temperaments involved. And sometimes you just have to accept it. And my coach had told me this thing, he's saying that you will never cheat.

[01:24:39] But that doesn't mean your opponent will do the same back to you. And then later, when I read this one line and made a lot of sense to me to say that just because you're a vegetarian doesn't mean that the lion won't eat you. So now to understand that through sport, right? If somebody is going to... Okay, this example. Many years later, I was running a race. And the person next to me had a head start.

[01:25:09] It was on your mark set and they were gone before the go went off. Not a competitive race, but I was so angry. And I said, it's not fair, you know, this kind of situation. I said, they didn't even say go. I mean, but I slowed down because I thought the race would be stopped. It wasn't stopped. The race went through. I obviously tried my best to pull through and missed out by a little. But it's not fair.

[01:25:39] But how often do we face a situation like that in our lives? So often. So you know you've gone through that emotion. You've realized you've survived at the end of it. Made you stronger. Made you realize it will happen again. But you can handle it. I think that's what sport teaches you. Not that you will do something in that, but you can handle it. And that you can handle it is very powerful. I can figure it out.

[01:26:09] I can handle it. These things are tremendously powerful, like right through our lives. Absolutely. And that's why a lot of women who are in C-suite and who have actually made it in corporate, where more than 90% or so are girls who have actually played sport at some level and many at the university level. Also a lot of other things, right? When you talk about C-suite level, there's so much strategy involved. There's so much thinking. There's so much taking people together.

[01:26:38] There's a lot of things that sport teaches you just because that's how sport is and that's what sport requires of you. So you start thinking differently in many ways and you start approaching and feeling things differently as well. Yeah, it's really, I mean, life skills, right? Isn't it? So I wanted to understand from you, Parna.

[01:27:01] So if there's a child today watching and wanting to play badminton or a parent watching who would like to support their child in playing badminton and say the child is 6'7", right? How should the child or the parent navigate this? They want to represent the country eventually. What is the practical way of doing that journey or making the journey?

[01:27:27] Point number one, don't think of representing the country. It's too early. Too much. No, it's just so far a goal to set. But there's so many things that need to fall in line to actually, you know, get there. Not in a discouraging way, but just to say that no one can really plan to that extent. Okay.

[01:27:55] The only way you can do it is if the kid gets into sport in the right way. How do you get into sport the right way is to keep it as uncomplicated as possible. Keep the fun. Get the right coaching academy or the right coach. Be the parent. Be the supportive parent. Have your roles very clear. Trust the coach. Do your job.

[01:28:26] Watch out the feedback that the kid is giving you before, after, during, you know, things like that. There are some kids who take the competition. Yeah. Some kids who don't. So you know. Right? And I'm not saying judge it immediately. Give it a couple of years. Yeah. You know, give it that time that you can safely assume that. For me, as a kid, I thrived on competition.

[01:28:54] Come tournaments, my eyes would light up and I'd love to be in that situation. There are many kids I feel like a competition six months away and they're already stressing. Yeah. Not a good sign. Right. Having said that, we expect a lot from kids. Ensure, ensure that the kid is prepared before you throw them into the big bad ocean. Right.

[01:29:20] By which I mean, if you are expecting them to do something, ensure that you put them in when they're ready so their confidence doesn't take a hit. They have to be happy and they have to be confident. Yeah. Put them into a competition too early. No kid wants to lose. Yeah. You know. And lose body. Right. Recognize that. They will hate the sport. Yeah. Right. Right.

[01:29:47] And hopefully that will not have an impact on your relationship with the kid. But don't do that. If they say no, you know, respect that. Ensure that they have the last word. You can guide them. You can nudge them. You can help them, be patient with them. But not necessarily saying that they will know what's good for them. Because sometimes they're very, very young. But they will tell you in their own way. Even a simple thing, Mama, I like to go. Yeah.

[01:30:17] Mama, can I go? I have a party, but can I go after I finish my goals? Is enough an indication for you? So the idea is to basically protect their love for this sport when they're young and let them sort of play and enjoy. At what point is it? Watch out for the love also. Yeah. And at what point? So assuming they, you know, they do have that love. Then, you know, at what age? And if they're keen on basically playing, how do we go about it? Clubs, buildings, etc.

[01:30:46] Yeah, I think break it down. Make it into smaller stages. When we talk about competition and tournaments, by which I mean the external tournaments. Like you're playing outside your academy or you're playing a district level or a school level tournament. Yeah. So first you get the kid in. You learn the sport. Like learn techniques of the sport. Learn your footwork well.

[01:31:11] Thereafter, you can play smaller competitions within your academy, within building, within school. You know, then take it to the next stage. Keep it a lower level tournament and then increase it to a higher level. So what happens is by then you sort of know how ready they are. You're getting enough feedback to know what they need to still work on. At the same time, keep their confidence intact.

[01:31:38] But also give them that slight exposure to what competition is like. Because competition at any stage will get your heart rate to go up. Yeah. But you have to start getting used to that. Because and so if you take it gradually, it doesn't seem so daunting as when you put them into a big competition in front of more people. You know, immediately. So break it down. Take it slowly. Take it gradually.

[01:32:04] Different sports have, of course, different ways to mature into competition if that's what you want to do. And by then you'll also learn the temperament of the child. Some kids love competition. Some kids don't. The kids who love competition, how can you keep that competitive spirit going? And the ones who don't, how can you help them navigate?

[01:32:27] You know, this increase in tension, pressure, you know, worry about the outcome. Things like that can be helped. But then you can also then move and sort of help them through that journey so that they're ready when things get harder. And once you start with external competitions, it's sort of one thing leads to the other. So then if you're representing, depending on performance, you go to represent state rankings, you go to represent nationals and beyond.

[01:32:57] So then it's ranking based. Is it? Different sports have different pathways. Right. And for badminton? For badminton, it would typically be, you know, you play your schools, which would be going to school. Yeah. It doesn't have a bearing on what you do at the district, but it's a good way to sort of, that's a good step to have in your system. And then you play your districts and then you play your states and then you play your nationals and then you play internationals. And then you either have selection points.

[01:33:26] So sometimes you get selected based on your national ranking, your state ranking. Sometimes it's by a tournament performance. Sometimes it's through trials that they have or a combination of any of these. So it just depends. Got it. And there's so much science to sport now, isn't it? I mean, back to when you were playing, that wasn't really the case, but around mental health, which to some extent your coach played that part for you. But there's mental health and sports psychology. Then there is nutrition, etc.

[01:33:56] Again, at what point does all this become a part of your ecosystem to which a child should be exposed? So I just feel why all this is there now and it's important. And if you have the means to get to this kind of expertise, it's fantastic.

[01:34:17] But it should always play a secondary role to the actual sport itself, to the technique, to your footwork, to your tactics and your strategy part of it, to your concept of the game. These are just additions and amplifiers to that. Bringing it in too early puts a lot of burden on the kids and complicates it for them, makes it very heavy for them.

[01:34:48] Sport should always start with play and then move to sport. Even when it moves to sport, it should never use the play element of it. And sometimes getting these things into early, the play element gets sidelined and it becomes very serious. When you compete, you compete seriously. But it doesn't have to be that serious.

[01:35:12] And it always has to be the nice part of your life. And sometimes we take that away too early. If the kid needs help in a particular small part of it, can it be done informally first before you go to the formal channel? Informally can mean a chat with a parent. It could be a chat with a school PE teacher.

[01:35:38] It could be a chat with somebody in the family or maybe some ex-athlete who's played or somebody they look up to who has nothing to do with anything. There's somebody they can be vulnerable with and trustworthy. And who can just give them a worldly sort of lesson to say that, you know. Or just to even to say that you're nervous, it's okay, even I feel it. That itself could help in many, many ways.

[01:36:06] So, yeah, I think try that truth first before you get very serious. I think at the age of 10 and 11, we want the kid to eat exactly the right food that an Olympian eats. I heard this and I thought it was very sensible to say that we are looking at the training session of an Olympian or of an elite marathon runner.

[01:36:32] And we're trying to look at that training session and try to eat accordingly and not. I think look at the amount of years that they've put in to get there. Right. So don't just pick that up in isolation. First, do this. You might not have to do it. Not might not have to do so much and do it to this extent. Yeah. Just keep it simple.

[01:36:57] Even going back to my discussion with Chris, he had mentioned that, you know, we look at adults and then we treat kids as mini adults. And he's saying that is such a big mistake, isn't it? I mean, kids are not mini adults. So that is something that we need to just wire within us. Right. If someone had told me in that age that you can't eat this and you can't do this and you can't do this and you can't do this, I think I would have stopped playing altogether.

[01:37:26] So that's why I'm saying it from that kind of thinking to say that we can't do this to the children. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You also made a very interesting point initially where you had said that to some extent tennis was a rich man's sport. Right. And it is badminton. Now, even in India, we have sort of the privilege and the underprivileged. And for a lot of the underprivileged, badminton would be that rich man's sport.

[01:37:54] So I wanted to understand within, you know, certain programs that are there. So there's Kelo India, which you are a part of, or there are private corporate programs which have, you know, which have scholarships, et cetera, or can pay for this. Can you name a few on how should a, you know, how should a parent be thinking about it? Because sport at the end of the day should be inclusive. So how, you know, if somebody has to navigate it, how do we go about it?

[01:38:23] So I think, you know, certain kids enjoy certain sports. You look at it scientifically, there are certain, you know, I think certain parameters that we look like, look at for certain sports. So you'd look at the physiology of it. There are certain states where there's a culture of certain sports.

[01:38:50] So those sports sort of come up in those particular states. There's a certain amount of support to a few sports. So those sports sort of overshine a lot of the others and get the performances get better there.

[01:39:06] There are certain sports when you're looking at that the accessibility is much more in terms of what is the club training ground that's available in your immediate locality. Yeah. Which means, again, coming back to the access, because I think that's how you start playing sport. You don't envisage doing, you know, skiing in India. Yeah.

[01:39:35] That's not the first sport that will ever come to mind. Yeah. Right? So just be practical about what you want to pick. India is a huge country. There are certain limitations, but also we have certain strengths. If we look at it from a national performance point of view, and we're looking at Olympic medals, and we're looking at generally building the sports culture,

[01:40:00] I think doubling down on what we already have would be my first line of thinking. Yeah. And badminton is definitely one of them, right? Badminton is one of them, but again, badminton is in certain pockets of the country. Yeah. Correct? And all sports have that certain pockets of the country. You look at it in an ideal case scenario, yes, everyone should have access to whatever they want to do. Mm-hmm. Right? Each kid, if whatever they want to play, they should have the means and access to play. Will that happen yet? No.

[01:40:29] Does it happen anywhere in the world? No. So then why are we trying to, you know, be this? Can we give kids enough safe spaces to play sport? Mm-hmm. Let's aim for that first before we give them the choice of sport. Mm-hmm. Right? And get to that. Can we do it in a good way? Good experiences of sport. Mm-hmm. Happy experiences of sport and good quality coaching. Mm-hmm. Right? So that they stay in sport. Can we have sport in schools?

[01:40:58] Can we do things like this? But most importantly, at a younger age, I would prefer that the kid doesn't need to travel too far to pursue their sport. Right. Just so that they get enough rest. They get enough time to do other things. They get enough time with family. Yeah. And just be in that safe ecosystem before you start pushing them to such an extent that then the rest of their life gets compromised.

[01:41:27] So assuming, you know, access is there and safety is there. If a child wants to pursue badminton in terms of funding on your private side? And again, are there good enough scholarships? And on the public and the government side, are there, you know, are there programs there which one could sort of look at? So I think if the child is really performing well, today there are many, many options.

[01:41:56] And in fact, in a lot of cases, there are five, six platforms who are really looking to pick up the same child and support the same child. So there's a choice then. It's become the reverse where now the child gets to choose where they want to go. But then you have to have a performance to that level.

[01:42:20] Expecting support when you've still not established yourself, you know, in terms of performance could be hard. And that's fair because, you know, financial resources are limited as it always is. Then there's no guarantee, unfortunately, at the end. Yeah. Right. Supporting a kid when they're, say, 12 and 14 is very different.

[01:42:42] And you have to have a very different mindset to support a kid at that age vis-a-vis supporting somebody who's already in their deadness in that sense. So yes, but expecting it very early could be hard unless you're extraordinary. I think that's actually quite encouraging, right? Because, I mean, like you said, it does good access. And, you know, these are things that are sort of close by the ecosystem, et cetera.

[01:43:08] And if you can manage that, I think once you reach a professional level, which is where a lot of the funding, you know, you need to put in, right? In terms of whether it's nutrition, training skills, et cetera. If that is then, it can be taken care of once you reach a certain, you know, elite level. That in itself, I think, is quite encouraging. Right from the government to, you know, the not-for-profits to, you know, private corporations.

[01:43:37] They're really looking at supporting sports. So it's a good scene in India right now. Is it enough? We're a huge country. No. But is it there? Yes. Great. Again, very encouraging to know. Let me segue a little bit about Aparna as mom. The hardest job in the world. I know, isn't it?

[01:44:01] But you know better than anyone else what, you know, what it takes to actually get to being an Olympian. As a parent, how, you know, what is it that you are hoping, you know, what are your dreams for your daughter or how she navigates suitable years? You know what? I don't know the route to becoming an Olympian. I don't. It just happened to me.

[01:44:29] But what I do know is the journey to go from something you really love doing and you're passionate about to keep with it till the end and still retain the same kind of love and passion that I had on day one. That journey for me is something I know day in and day out having lived it.

[01:44:53] So for my daughter, that's the only thing I hope and pray and wish for, that she finds that passion. Maybe not early as I did, but whenever she does, that she has that journey with its ups and downs, knowing that success is never linear. You will go through, you know, you will go through different experiences along the way.

[01:45:20] But to retain that kind of purity for what you really wanted to do and what you love to do. And going back to a space to say that this is my safe space. For me, the badminton court is my safe space. I step on the court and I hope for her to find that. And for me, that would be something that I know. Is that what you want her to take from your journey? That's what I tell her all the time.

[01:45:47] I said how you do it could be very different from how I did it. What's not negotiable for me, absolutely, as a parent is effort and integrity. You will put in your hundred percent to what you do and you will not compromise your values. I think these are the two things that you will follow what I did. Everything else, you do it however you want to do it. But just stick with it and just, you know, be happy at the end.

[01:46:17] That's really beautiful. And I think every parent out there would, you know, would hopefully resonate with this, right? Because it's a very powerful, powerful message to every parent. Let's get back to a fun segment. I'm going to give you a few situations and you will just tell me whether you allow it. Okay, so yes. Disallow, no. Or it depends. Okay. Okay.

[01:46:43] Your kid wants to skip practice because their favorite show just dropped a new season. Allow, disallow. Look, before we start this segment, happy to say a lot of it will be dependent on a calculation of what they did yesterday, what I foresee is going to happen tomorrow,

[01:47:06] and a trade-off strategically to say that it's okay if she drops the practice today, if she's going to make it up tomorrow. Okay. If that's an option. Yeah. Of course, let's explain that. Or if she has to study on something tomorrow and I want her to put in that four hours tomorrow, then okay. It makes sense for her to drop the practice today because I know her energy is going to go somewhere else. Fair enough. So that's it.

[01:47:35] Parents screaming from the stands during a match, allow it, Bennett, or it depends. Scream encouragement by all means. Is instruction in something that's going to bring their morale down? No. But most importantly, if the kid doesn't want it, don't do it. A nine-year-old tracking her own statistics on a spreadsheet made up by herself. If the kid, if it helps the kid, by all means, go ahead and do it.

[01:48:04] A lot of timetables get made and not followed. But after, go ahead. Telling your child they played brilliantly when they clearly did not. No. No. Yeah. That was straight no. Yeah. Switching coaches because your child doesn't vibe with the current one. Give, let them give you enough justification.

[01:48:27] Observe for yourself and they can take a call where you can be sure because it is important. Yeah. Pulling your child out of school for a week to attend a national tournament. You have to. Yeah. Let your kid read their own press, good and bad. It depends.

[01:48:52] When you say good press and bad press, it depends on how it will affect them and if they really need to. It's not as important as you make it out to be. But it can be damaging. But it can be damaging. Right. A parent sitting in on every single training session. If you're not interfering and the kid's okay with it, sit in. And if the kid doesn't want to do it. If the kid doesn't want to do it. I don't know.

[01:49:21] Telling a child to quit is for they clearly not progressing anymore. After a conversation with the child so that both of you are on the same page. But at the end of the day, the last decision is the kids. Right. Okay. I think that was it. Let's get some closing from you. I think what for me, this has been very, very informative.

[01:49:44] For any child or parent watching this, give me some sort of thoughts on what you would like to tell them about they want to basically pursue badminton. I think any sport, just remember that you work as a team and everyone has their roles to play. And everyone has to probably be on the same page when it comes to expectations.

[01:50:14] Keep the negativity away. Keep the complications away. Don't look too far ahead. Because yes, the road can be hard and can be unfair at times. Just take it a day at a time and give you 100% every single day. If you do that, good things compound. And at the end, you will achieve the result that you want. Super. Very, very helpful. Thank you, Aparna, for coming on this show. It was really, really, really a pleasure.

[01:50:44] My pleasure. It was a lovely conversation. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.