The Next Best Series Podcast: Episode 43 - "House Of The Dragon," "Hacks," Gotham TV Awards & Emmy FYC's

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[00:01:21] Before it's etched in silver, it's carved in ice. What happens next will last forever. The Stanley Cup final on ABC and ESPN Plus begins Saturday. And the Emmy goes to... And the Emmy goes to... And the Emmy goes to... And the Emmy goes to... Breaking Bad. Bad Men.

[00:01:44] Modern Family. Feet. Homeland. The Crown. The Devil. Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 43 of the Next Best Series podcast where we talk about television here on the Next Best Picture podcast. The time of recording is 8.45 PM on June 6, 2024.

[00:02:04] I am your host, the owner, editor-in-chief of nextbestpicture.com, Matt Naglia. And here to join me today for this episode, I have Giovanni Lago. Hello, everyone. So this episode is very important, Gio. The nomination voting for the upcoming 76th Annual Primetime Emmy Awards is beginning on June 13th.

[00:02:26] It will be running up until June 24th at 10 PM. Nominations will then be announced on July 17th. So this period of time is very, very important for Emmy voters to consider shows that they already know that they're going to consider.

[00:02:42] But then, of course, the ones that they don't know to consider. Maybe there's something hidden underneath the carpet, under the stone, behind the curtain. So the questions we're going to be talking about here today are what shows do you want Emmy voters to consider for their nomination voting?

[00:03:01] We're also going to be talking about what we've been watching lately. No fan questions this week. We're going to keep things pretty light, pretty simple. Gio, what have you been watching? Because I know that the month of June has a lot on the horizon for us.

[00:03:16] In just a few days' time, we've got the returning seasons of The Bear, which season two will be in contention this year for the Emmy Awards. But season three is coming right up.

[00:03:26] We also have season two of House of the Dragon, one of the biggest television shows in the world. And we also will have The Boys, season four. All this is happening just in the month of June alone. So that's all going to be pretty big, I would say.

[00:03:44] Outside of that, though, what have you been watching lately in the lead up to all of this madness? Yeah, we're entering that fine point where Emmy season is kind of wrapping up in terms of what can air for this year's deadline. Oh, it's already passed. Yeah. May 31st.

[00:04:02] That was it. We're done. Yeah. And we are no longer bound by previous years' rules of shows doing split seasons and carrying into the next year or months later. That's a no-no. So in terms of new shows that are coming up, like you mentioned, there are so many.

[00:04:19] For now, it's been a lot of just catching up on what's already been out. Mainly finales. Lots of finales. One personal favorite of mine, The Sympathizer. I caught up with the last three episodes.

[00:04:32] I was around, caught up for the most part, kind of got distracted towards the end. I think it holds up very well. Some slight tonal balances that I can't manage to keep up with.

[00:04:43] I have a friend who read the book and he kind of filled me in on a lot and if it matched what he expected compared to when he read it, I think it's fantastic. Honestly, one of the best series I've seen all year.

[00:04:56] I think the entire cast is good. The main actor in that series is easily one of the most underrated performances of a television show all year. And Hoi Suande, I don't know if I'm pronouncing that correctly.

[00:05:09] He's an Australian actor but having to speak perfect English in terms of like an American accent while also speaking Vietnamese. He's doing everything. And then you have to pair him up against Robert Downey Jr., you know, fresh off Oppenheimer. He's playing four characters.

[00:05:26] Incredibly showy role, especially to the more hammy, satirical parts of the story. And for the few moments she's in the series, you know, Sandra Oh, who the Emmys just adore. It's not some easy feat to do, especially when your first leading role is for also a

[00:05:41] part two in a Wook series. A lot to ask from him. And I think he more than delivers. The ending's great. Kind of a category fraud show in terms of it being a limited series. There is a second book.

[00:05:55] I don't know if we will get a second season or another series out of it. I know not a lot of people have talked about it. I don't think HBO ever intended on making that series as like some big commercial hit. It is an A24 co-production.

[00:06:11] That being said, in terms of the critical response, it has been nothing but excellent. I think it's fantastic. Everyone should watch it. Another series I also finished was Masters of the Air, which I thought was pretty solid. I think it's good dad core television.

[00:06:27] I don't think it reaches the heights of Band of Brothers or The Pacific. I do think it does the best it can for what it has to do. A lot of the aerial sequences are very more CG heavy compared to more practical outings for the other series.

[00:06:44] Understandably so. You can't have actual planes bombing up for like 9 episodes. That's going to cost a fortune and also very unsafe. I think if you want to watch a series that has an incredibly magnetic lead performance duo from Austin Butler and Callum Turner, it's a breezy watch.

[00:07:03] I think it's a fun show. Another series I watched that I caught up on was Sugar, which I don't know if you finished it Matt or... No. I last left off on that big twist and I haven't been able to watch any other episodes since

[00:07:20] I've gotten back from the Cannes Film Festival. I'm hoping after Tribeca is over, I'll be able to dive back in once I have some more free time. That's my plan right now because yeah, I was liking what I was seeing. How did it end? I was actually...

[00:07:35] I need to finish episode 8. I haven't finished the exact finale, but the penultimate, it further dives into that reveal that we are hinting at. We're avoiding spoilers because it is just some of the most jarringly bad shit stuff you'll see on television and it for me personally works.

[00:07:52] I know it's a lot of make or break for a lot of people watching. It explains a lot more. You get a lot more clarity. You feel like it might be rushed that they're like, okay, da da da da da da da da.

[00:08:02] They're like vomiting out like the exposition behind it. But honestly, Sugar was always a vibe check series for me. Like from the first episode, I was always just into it no matter what the turn is. I still think you should finish it out.

[00:08:16] I sounds like you're very already committed to the bit at this point. Yeah, I like what I've seen. It's not bad. Colin Farrell has been pretty excellent in it. I agree with you when you say it's a vibes type of show.

[00:08:28] I thought that that twist was mind bending. I really did not see something like that coming and I'm just curious to see where it all goes from here. I do apologize that I can't contribute more at this time, but I'm excited to get back into it.

[00:08:43] And then I also watched the finale of Abbott Elementary, which I will say despite my issues with the season very much feeling I've repeated this sentiment all season long, very affected by the strikes. You can tell some of the storylines don't entirely work for me.

[00:09:00] By the end of it, though, that finale I thought was one of the better episodes of the series. I thought it really came like and gelled together. And I'm very excited to see actually what they do next season, especially where it leaves

[00:09:11] off talk about another finale episode that has a big moment. There's a lot of these spoilers. I'm trying to avoid people like you got to catch up. All right. There's plenty of good TV. And then the last series I will mention that I thought was great.

[00:09:25] You know, it's technically one of these summer series because it did only start at the end of May, but it's a two episode week release, which is weird. And that's how they've always done it. I'm talking about HBO's HBO Max is hacks. Brilliant season.

[00:09:43] I think the way they naturally evolve that dynamic between Deborah and Ava, it never feels stale. It feels incredibly natural and to where they're going and also very well deserved. The way they keep naturally evolving the storylines in terms of like the overall season,

[00:10:02] you know, the first season, then being paired together, trying to save the careers and then season two with a Deborah's new special. And then the way it ends, though, you could have ended the hacks at the end of season two.

[00:10:15] Genuinely, like had the great needle drop the goodbye. Yeah. But you know what, though? Season three made an argument that this show should go on for as long as it possibly can, in my opinion. You know that I'm concerned about. I don't know necessarily.

[00:10:30] Not that I don't think they could. I think everyone on the writing team and the creators behind the show are fantastic. Every joke just lands. I think Jean's smart as great as ever. Hannah Einbinder, amazing, brilliant and hot take. I going to put her to win the Emmy.

[00:10:47] I think I think we got might have an upset against Merrill. But my question to you is, why do you think do you feel that in another season or two, it might be spinning its wheels or losing some gas? Like what's your hesitation here?

[00:11:00] I think I'm just always on the cautious end when it comes to television of just I don't want a show that I genuinely have adoration for. Go past this expiration point where it's like, OK, you guys are just dragging it out. I think it's like a succession.

[00:11:15] I was always like, this is fantastic. I don't know how many seasons you could go. There's only so many seasons you can elaborate on. Maybe like five, you know, where it's like, oh, who's going to take it over? Who backstabs who? It ended at four.

[00:11:28] I think knowing when to dip out is the smartest thing you can do as a showrunner. Sometimes shows do not know and sometimes show also and prematurely before they even have anything done and ultimately fumbled or ending. I'm looking at you, Ted Lasso.

[00:11:44] So that being said, I concerned that if Hax goes, I can't see it going for like six seasons like I'm sorry. I want two more at best, you know, feel comfortable for me, especially because where the dynamic they set up for next season. I'm avoiding spoilers.

[00:11:59] That finale was brilliant. Everything building up to that final sequence, especially how it's connected to previous seasons finales for the show and how it's even pushing Deborah and Eva's relationship to a new direction that will ultimately create a lot of interesting character dynamics and

[00:12:16] this new power dynamic between them both. I'm very excited. I don't know how like permanent that's going to be, though, because let's be honest, like I feel like this is a cyclical relationship where it's like they argue, they like each other.

[00:12:28] You know, how much can you really do? But that being said, I think it's fantastic season. I think, you know, each season gets better and better. But yeah, Hax is why I'm going to end it in terms of stuff I've seen.

[00:12:38] If you have not watched it, people go watch it. Yeah, the writing on Hax is by far the best I think right now in. Oh, man, I don't want to say all of television, but it's up there for sure. And this third season I thought was truly phenomenal.

[00:12:55] And I think Jean Smart and Hannah Eyebinder are absolutely incredible. I too am really glad that I made the time to binge that and watch all of it as quickly as humanly possible. I really, really enjoy that show quite a bit.

[00:13:11] There is one more show I saw is newer. I wouldn't say it's the greatest quality series, but another comedy show I did watch was Tires. You know, the Shane Gillis Netflix comedy series.

[00:13:22] And it's a bunch of standup comics in it like Andrew Schultz and Starbuzz, if you know him. And it's very much garbage comedy, very vulgar, very broey. It is like laugh out loud funny.

[00:13:35] I don't think it is entirely the most memorable, but I will say it's only six episodes. It's incredibly great, like fold your clothes television, you know, we have it in the background. So if you do need something like digestible, Tires is also out there. That's fair. That's fair.

[00:13:51] I've heard some things about that show from some certain people, but haven't had a chance to watch it myself. Okay, I guess before we get into more Emmy talk here, I'll mention the big thing. I've seen the first two episodes of House of the Dragon season two.

[00:14:09] I literally cannot reveal anything even after seeing it. They are pretty protective of the spoilers over there. Here's what I will say. And take this with a grain of salt, because those who know me know that I'm a massive West Coast fan.

[00:14:25] Yeah, I recognize wholeheartedly that the pacing of the first season of House of the Dragon may not have been for everyone. I get it. I understand it. I thought it was necessary. And I think when you watch season two, you will appreciate how necessary it was because

[00:14:44] all of that set up in terms of the character work that was put into the relationships, who everybody is, what their positions are and what they are ultimately vying for. I think it all now has been set up properly to allow for the second season to kind of

[00:15:03] just come out of the gate full force. Because now there's this war between Team Black and Team Green, and you see them make strategic moves against each other for political purposes, for personal purposes. And there are consequences to each one of these decisions.

[00:15:25] That's one of the things that people loved about the earlier seasons of Game of Thrones was that actions had consequences. And you see that play out early on in the show. I know that there are other episodes that have been made available to certain people

[00:15:41] that go beyond the first two that I've seen. And that's all well and good because I have a feeling based on what I've read of what happens in those two episodes, and also too I've read Fire and Blood, so I know the whole trajectory of the story anyway.

[00:15:54] But all I'll say is I think that for those who really just wanted the story to get up and going, believe me. I think we will look back on that first season with a, you know, it was kind of a slog to get through.

[00:16:11] But I think there will be appreciation for how much emotional investment there is in these characters now that we're seeing them be put to the test here dramatically. And I think that this is going to be an extremely violent season in terms of not just the physical

[00:16:28] because Game of Thrones and House of the Dragon has never shied away from its fair share of gore and burnt corpses and the like. But there's going to be a lot of psychological violence, I think.

[00:16:41] People sometimes forget there are moments on Game of Thrones that made people very uncomfortable and turn their stomachs in ways that were quite upsetting. The show has not forgotten that. And Ryan Condal, I think, has done a really, really great job of continuing the continuity

[00:17:00] of Game of Thrones into House of the Dragon. And not just like in terms of, you know, the art direction and the overall like visual aesthetic of the show that goes without saying, but more about the world itself and how people

[00:17:15] conduct themselves within this world and how dark and dangerous this world is. I can't reveal much and it pains me. I literally was given a list by HBO of, here are all the things that you cannot talk about. And I was like, that's everything.

[00:17:33] I was like, what am I supposed to talk about if I can't talk about these things? But yeah, I really, really liked the way that this season started off. It's a shorter season. It's only eight episodes compared to the 10 that we got in the first season.

[00:17:50] But I think eight is the perfect number here where if and maybe I'm going to lose some people when I say this, but Game of Thrones season seven had seven episodes and I will never forget people feeling like, oh my God, like this is really rushed.

[00:18:06] And how fast the show felt compared to 10 episodes the previous six seasons before it. And then of course, season eight with six episodes was like, this is, this is a joke, right? Six episodes is like not nearly enough.

[00:18:18] I think eight is a very good number for the pace of the show that they are, that they are setting it at right now in terms of war has broken out. We are in this war now between team black and team green. Let's get to it, you know?

[00:18:35] And I'm all for seeing how that escalates and what happens throughout the rest of the season and kind of curious to how many seasons to show has in it overall beyond this. Are they going to make a third season? Absolutely they will.

[00:18:52] What lies beyond that is a bit of a question mark and it all depends on how they decide to structure it from here. But my enjoyment of the show is pretty much back.

[00:19:03] It's been a long two years, but my love for Westeros and my love for this world that George RR Martin has created has never ever diminished. I have secretly in the shadows still adored Game of Thrones even after season eight.

[00:19:23] I just don't say it publicly that often anymore because nobody else wants to share in that love and affection the same way as I do. But hopefully through House of the Dragon, the community can feel proud once again of this world and of what HBO has created. Interesting.

[00:19:41] I am one of those people who thought the first season suffered from egregious pacing issues, certain choices they made. I was a bit baffled by like why certain actors were kept the same in terms of the aging, but others weren't. It just felt inconsistent to me.

[00:19:58] Although by the time it gets to the end, you know, it starts picking up and Matt Smith is just as great as ever. I'm assuming I'm assuming he's still as great as ever in season. Oh yeah, absolutely. He is.

[00:20:10] There's a scene in particular between him and Rhaenyra in the second episode that is really, really great because it's just these two are just having at it like almost like Adam Driver and Scarlett Johansson in Marriage Story where you're like, oh, we're doing this now.

[00:20:24] Okay, let's let's do it. It's good stuff. And I'm excited to see where it just goes from here. Like I was saying before, because there's quite a bit of action to come. I've heard that there are some sequences in this season that are going to give the

[00:20:40] previous seasons of Game of Thrones a run for its money in terms of spectacle. And I'm very much looking forward to seeing what they've created here, because as mentioned earlier with only eight episodes compared to 10, you know, you can really do some interesting

[00:20:53] things with that leftover budget in that case. So it's going to be a wild ride. Should be fun. I'm excited. We are AudioStack.ai. Combining AI writing, the best synthetic voices with production and delivery. Be it ads podcasts or VOs for video just like this ad.

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[00:21:31] OK, and now in talking about the current Emmy race. Giovanni Lago, when I look at the comedy series race in particular, everyone seems to have the bear currently in the number one spot still. Yep. I think that makes perfect sense.

[00:21:48] But Hax is so good that I don't even think it's so much a distant number two. I actually think there's a stealthy, sneaky world where Hax could lay into the bear. Maybe not for series, but I actually think Hax, you mentioned Hannah Einbinder before.

[00:22:07] I think that that is totally possible. And Jean Smart is so going to win again. 100% going to win. Yeah, it's, you know, as someone who wanted Aya to win and lead actress, I mean, she's going to have plenty of opportunity.

[00:22:21] I'm sure I'm sure she's going to be great in season three, which is very soon. And we'll have to deal with that for over a year for another Emmy season. But Jean Smart, you know, two time nominated for this series.

[00:22:33] She's been previously nominated as one for other works. But for Hax, she's two for two. It's pretty good that she might go three for three. She's like shooting 100% from the field so far.

[00:22:43] She might be our new Julie Louis Dreyfus here where she just wins every year for the show until she doesn't. Mm hmm. I agree. And I think with Hannah, you know, we're floating that idea.

[00:22:55] I think it helps that for the bear and supporting actress, it's more so how many nominations they'll get in that category due to overperformance than like a legitimate contender for that series and supporting actress.

[00:23:10] I don't even think it's so much that I think it's more Meryl Streep for only murders in the building has just felt like a placeholder all season long since day one, even before the show even came out.

[00:23:21] And so for Hannah Einbinder to kind of emerge here with a performance that is not just as good as what she did before, which was worthy of a nomination, but like to me better and now fully supportive of a win here.

[00:23:39] And, you know, you have Iowa to bury and Lee. So she's out of the way. Yeah, I think that this just opens things up here for her to take that slot. I agree. And I think also, like, do we really need to give it to Meryl again?

[00:23:53] She's won Emmys before she has three. OK, like what? She's one for like narrating. She's one for acting. What are we doing? I think, you know, it would be a great time to give it to Hannah Einbinder, who's been

[00:24:05] nominated for previous both seasons and she's been great every season. I feel like that's always someone who I've rooted for. They'll be like, oh, I'll be cool if Hannah won for this. And then it's just the person she ends up losing against.

[00:24:18] It's just utterly terrific, whether it's like Io or, you know, Hannah Waddingham or Shirley Rapp or something like that. Whoever has been winning the last few years, it's all been great winners. And you're just the luck of the draw.

[00:24:31] I think this year, you know, with the momentum of the series, that being said, I do think some people are getting a bit carried away with the idea that Hax could be a stealth contender. I really don't think that's happening at all. Like, I don't think it's close.

[00:24:48] I think at the most it's just smart Einbinder and maybe, maybe a writing win. They have won writing before. The thing is, when you're going against the bear, that show, if we're on paper as of

[00:25:04] now, how we're all feeling the Emmy's race, besides not even looking at the over performance of nominations is going to do to where it might be just actually kind of disgusting, but also satisfying because I love everyone on that show. It's most likely winning Jeremy Ellen White.

[00:25:21] Eben Mosbacher, it's going to win two guest acting awards for John Bernthal and Jamie Lee Curtis, that's for acting right there. I don't see it losing writing or directing, and we just got the news of them actually shockingly not picking Forks.

[00:25:37] I don't know why anybody thought that this was shocking. I think it's because the two standout episodes of this season were Forks and Fishes. I think clearly, especially like Bernthal's acting submission is fishes and Jamie Lee

[00:25:53] Curtis. And I think that's the episode they're going to heavily rally behind. I think it's going to win both directing and writing. It's phenomenal. But that's the thing, though. I always thought it was going to be fishes, even from day one when I saw the episode,

[00:26:08] it always felt like it was going to be fishes. Did people really think it was going to be Forks? I think at the least nominated, it was a standout episode. I think that is Eben's submission. And it's the episode that really contextualizes his character.

[00:26:23] And I think everyone who throughout the first season was like, dude, this Richie guy's a dick. I can't stand him. And then beginning of the season two, he's like, yo, cousin, what's my purpose? And you're like, oh, no, this is going to be emotional.

[00:26:37] And then by the time you get to fishes, I mean, Forks, it's this utterly cathartic episode. He's singing Taylor Swift. He finds his purpose. It's really beautiful television. And I think it's just such a showcase.

[00:26:51] And honestly, it's what sealed Eben's win for season one because of these seasons being so dragged out due to the strikes and how everything's been pushed together. And it's probably going to help him again for season two.

[00:27:04] I can see why people would back that episode or at least think nominated. And there also the other one was the Rami Yusuf episode was submitted for directing, if I'm not mistaken. So.

[00:27:16] You know, that was a good solid episode, but like, would you really put that one over Forks? I think mainly, genuinely, they picked the other episode because maybe they thought it would cancel out. It is pretty strategic to just put all your energy into one episode.

[00:27:31] You don't want to, you know, both split anything. So they are campaigning well. And I just think, again, if you went for acting and even if it splits one against like you only wins directing or it only wins writing, most likely it leans towards

[00:27:46] winning directing and not writing. If it were to split, it's taking series. I don't see how it doesn't take series. I don't see how it doesn't take casting. They're already going to start promoting that show soon.

[00:27:56] The show is beloved. And I know there's been rumors going around of networks like this is a drama. Why is this in comedy? It should be moved. And frankly, that's not going to really affect it at all.

[00:28:09] And also, B, it is quite a funny series, in my opinion. I know it's dark. I know it's dramatic. I know it plays into the trend of comedy series within the past decade or so being

[00:28:20] more dramedy leaning towards dramedy side than pure comedy like a sitcom like Abbott. But I think it does both perfectly. Now, maybe that could affect it in the future for season three. We don't know. But luckily we don't have to worry about that now.

[00:28:35] If they didn't make Barry a drama after how dark season three was. Yeah. I don't see how they would do it here for the bear. But at the same time, I would argue Barry was a funnier show than the bear. I agree. There's far more slapsticky bits.

[00:28:55] I definitely think the argument here for why the bear should be a drama instead of a comedy is stronger. One of the biggest developments that we did have happen this season, though, that has impacted the race in a major way.

[00:29:09] And we didn't have a chance to talk about this on our previous episode because it happened right after we had recorded and I had to wait a while to post that episode. So we're going to finally talk about this now.

[00:29:19] Yes. The drama series race finally got the big shake up that we were waiting for all year. We were always wondering, is there a drama series that's going to come along that's going to shake things up, make things interesting?

[00:29:33] Because you had the crown in the morning show near the top of everyone's list, along with other shows like the Gilded Age and Slow Horses, which haven't really gotten any kind of traction in the past from the Television Academy in these major races.

[00:29:49] You have new show like Fallout, maybe the three body problem, maybe the curse. But the excitement just wasn't fully there until rumors started spreading that Shogun, due to its popularity on FX, was going to possibly venture into season two.

[00:30:12] And now that has been confirmed and Shogun has moved to drama series out of limited series. And you can say anything that you want to say here. You can say that they only did this because they saw that there was an opening and

[00:30:30] they're taking it because also, too, let's face it, Gio, let's face it. If it stayed in limited series, it would be facing a very, very tough uphill battle, I think, against Baby Reindeer. And say what you want to say in terms of Shogun would have won anyway.

[00:30:46] I do not know if that is so true or not, but I do think for two of the most popular shows of this past year between those two, the fact now that they are both in categories where

[00:30:57] they just seem like they are going to coast to their wins together instead of going up against each other. Now, that just seems like it's. You know, a situation that benefits everybody. Yeah, you know, as someone who was bitching last year to a degree that, wow, three shows

[00:31:16] swept, albeit they were the three best shows of last year's succession, The Bear Beef. I entirely did not mind, although you've constantly heard me complain on this podcast about TV voters in the Television Academy being very redundant and lazy with their choices. That being said.

[00:31:36] I was like, you know. Maybe this year would inspire them to be creative, although in reality, due to last series choices, whether it was strike delays or stuff not airing, they were probably going to do the same in terms of doubling down nominations and drama was looking bad.

[00:31:52] I'm gonna be honest. I've watched every show that's contending besides Slow Horses. I'm a season behind. It's rough. So Shogun moving is a clear show. People have passion for it. It was a ratings monster.

[00:32:07] And real quick before I start talking, you know, the Emmy situation within in terms of what it could win and nominations and how ultimately this is a great thing for it in terms of its success.

[00:32:18] I'm curious from your standpoint, are you happy they're making more seasons of Shogun? I'm indifferent as someone who really, really liked a show. And I will say I even loved it at times. I wouldn't say love across the board.

[00:32:35] I do think that a second season could help some of my issues with the show. There were certain elements that I thought could have been made a little bit more clear. I don't think the show started getting great until about the final three episodes, I would say.

[00:32:55] But before that, I mean, I liked what I saw. Don't get me wrong. It just seemed like it took a while to find its footing. But once it did, I mean, it's one of the best television shows of the year by bar none.

[00:33:06] And its scale is pretty unparalleled, too, in terms of what it's going up against this year in a lot of areas. So, you know, it's a show that very much should have appealed to me in a way where I I'm actually

[00:33:18] quite surprised that I don't find myself loving it and shouting it from the top of rooftops the way that I am with some other shows this year. But I still very much enjoyed it.

[00:33:30] And if that means now with season two, I get to return to this world and with some of these characters, I know some of them obviously will not be returning. But that does afford the opportunity then for new people to be introduced and, you know,

[00:33:42] embark on other stories and such. Yeah, listen, I don't mind it. I definitely think that the last season, it's weird to say that now, ended on a pretty perfect note. I'm not worried about that being tarnished. If anything, I kind of view it like Big Little Lies where.

[00:34:04] Oh no. No, but hear me out. Hear me out. That first season was perfect and it was meant to just be that and it wasn't meant to be anything else. The popularity demanded a season two.

[00:34:18] We got a season two and it is inferior to the first season that we can all agree on. But is it bad? No, I don't think it's bad at all. And so that's what I'm kind of just hoping for here with this is I'm hoping that, you know,

[00:34:34] if anything, it's just it's fine. It's OK. Is it going to annoy people? Maybe sure. I mean, it already sounds like it's annoying you, but, you know, I'm excited to spend more

[00:34:47] time with some of these characters and, you know, listen, any excuse I can get to see more Hiroyuki Sanada in the lead role. That is true. I agree on that front. I think me and my friend were genuinely upset about it because he's read the book.

[00:35:04] He's a big book guy, so he's read the book. And I think you when you get to that finale, I think it was just a perfect subversion of what you were expecting and incredibly understated and a beautiful way to tap off, you know,

[00:35:21] showing the future without showing it, especially telling it to someone who won't get to see it, which I thought was incredibly profound. And I think brilliantly acted. And now, you know, you have no more source material. You are just on your own going past it.

[00:35:37] I think Justin Marks and Rachel Kondo are great in terms of structuring television. I think they're great writers. I am not going to lie and say that I'm not concerned and that this isn't very much a way to capitalize off your success.

[00:35:52] Like clearly the show was such a ratings hit for FX, who that whole team that they're like, OK, we need to keep pumping it out. And when it comes from that angle, that does make me a bit nervous.

[00:36:05] I think also this touches on something that I've always said by that. I think we as a society now and the way we interpret our media and receive it cannot accept finality or endings. And I think we just have to keep dragging things out.

[00:36:21] And I'm just scared that, you know, the quality will dip. That being said, I will be there every episode when it plays. I will watch. So I will be on the Titanic as it's crashing down if it does end up going that route.

[00:36:34] Hopefully not in terms of Emmys winning. And we kind of touched on it's looking very good for the show. I think certain categories where we were like, you know, it'll be happy. It'll be happy if it got nominated is for sure now getting nominated like Anna Sawai,

[00:36:52] you know, limited actress, best actress, incredibly stacked. You're having heavy hitters like Jodie Foster, Brie Larson in there. And it's like, well, you know, if Anna Sawai made it in that lineup, I'd be happy. Now on Best Actress, I think she's winning. I think she has the episode.

[00:37:10] I think she is an incredible focal point, especially in those final stretch of the season that you mentioned that is also stellar. I think now it moving to drama, someone like Cosmo Jarvis can get in in terms of nominations

[00:37:25] and they get double lead actor nominations for the series like True Detective. I think it could get multiple supporting actor nominations. I'm trying to remember the support. I always butcher his name. He was in Silence. Taranobu Asano, who is brilliant and scene stealing.

[00:37:44] I think he should deserve he like more than deserves to get a nomination. And I think he could. Albeit that I feel more in the bottom range. That would be, you know, coattail type nomination. I think get supporting actress, I think get guest acting.

[00:37:58] I think now it's clearly winning directing and writing because I think we were all just generally defaulting to the crown, more so that when we're looking at our top two shows to win this year, and it's the crown at mainly because of how they've treated in the past

[00:38:14] and in the morning show, which is like, come on, what are we doing? And now you have a show that has not only the great reviews behind it, clear adoration, people watched it. I think it's setting up for, you know, a pretty dominant takeover in that category

[00:38:29] and the drama selection. And then now it leaves limited series open for your favorite show. I don't know if it's still your favorite show of the year. Baby Reindeer to overperform as well. Yeah, Baby Reindeer is still for me.

[00:38:43] And actually, yeah, no, because now the season is over in terms of what qualifies. Yeah. Baby Reindeer was the show that had definitely the most impact on me. I will say this past year, I was very moved by that show in ways that I don't want to

[00:39:02] necessarily get into here. But all I'll say is that, you know, it's themes on trauma, self-hatred and various other things that the show touched upon in ways that like it revealed itself to be so many things.

[00:39:21] Off of this premise that, you know, was pretty horrific on its own, and I thought, OK, yeah, I can see how this is going to stretch itself out over the course of four and a half hours.

[00:39:32] But for it to cover as much ground as it did then in terms of like abuse and it did a number on me. And it was like one of those moments in time where you remember where you were when you

[00:39:45] first saw something and you remember the feeling that it gave you when you first experienced it. And because I binged it all in a single night, that's very identifiable for me. I loved my experience of watching Shogun like week after week.

[00:40:00] And I like that in general with a lot of shows. Don't get me wrong, like it's great. But there's something about binging an entire series or season, if you can, where you get

[00:40:13] the totality of it in maybe even a single day, you know, and that impact that it has on me is actually a way that I prefer to watch television most of the time.

[00:40:28] When I was younger, I loved watching stuff week to week with my friends and going to work and looking forward to the next episode and talking with people between episodes each week about what we thought was going to happen.

[00:40:40] But I'm no longer in that stage of my life. And so now where I don't have those water cooler discussions any longer, I very much enjoy being able to watch television the way I watch movies where yes, it's longer.

[00:40:53] And it can be very daunting to tell someone, hey, do you got 10 hours? You know, because most of the time I don't. But if it's a shorter one like this where it's only a few episodes, half an hour, oh, do you have four and a half hours?

[00:41:08] Yeah, absolutely. I could probably knock that out. And then you and so many people got to spread it out, right? They have to watch these shows sometimes in clunks because, chunks rather, because they

[00:41:21] end up either, you know, like in the case of Baby Reindeer, especially when you get to episode four. I mean, that is such heavy shit that I can totally understand if somebody says, hey,

[00:41:33] I need to take a walk around the block and smoke a cigarette or not come back to this for a few days. Like I get that. I totally do. But for me, it's more about like I want to experience that roller coaster of emotion

[00:41:47] all within that single like sit down viewing the same way I would watching a film. And in that regard, it's a very, very long way of me saying the emotional, cathartic, revelatory experience that I had watching Baby Reindeer. Nothing comes close to it for me this year.

[00:42:07] Yeah, it was very good. It is one of the best shows I have seen this year, especially in towards this Emmy season. And I'm not as high on it as you, but I think it is going to be very worthy of all the awards it wins.

[00:42:20] And, you know, now that Shogun moves, I originally was thinking that they could split writing and directing. I was thinking, you know, Baby Reindeer could take actor and writing and then Shogun takes series and directing maybe actress if, you know, there was a guy who was like, yeah,

[00:42:37] Anasazi deserves it and limited. Now, you know, it probably could take everything. Jessica Gunning could easily win supporting actress. That field is really not that great this year and limited despite overall the totality of limited series being very stacked.

[00:42:57] It could also get another nomination for Novo Mao, who is fantastic and such a heart wrenching performance. And I think, you know, you kind of hinted at the beginning talking about people that should get more of a spotlight this Emmy season for their work and their bubble contenders.

[00:43:14] She's definitely one of them. And I mean, you know, if you win writing and directing and multiple acting, what's to stop you from winning series? And also like genuinely in limited. I think it is, quote unquote, stacked in terms of big name shows probably getting into like

[00:43:32] Ripley and Baby Reindeer. But also I don't think they're equally as beloved. I think, you know, people who liked Ripley were mainly just like this looks gorgeous. Andrew Scott's great as always. What else is there? I still haven't finished it.

[00:43:49] And it's not that like I haven't liked it. It's just I've been struck. It's one of those shows that you start and it's just a chore to get back into the groove of watching it. I don't know what it is.

[00:44:00] I thought the last season of True Detective was abhorrently bad, despite, you know, Jodie Foster and Kelly Reese trying their best with their performances to elevate that show, especially with how it's very obvious that show was not a True Detective series originally.

[00:44:16] And it became, you know, feels like it got written around and they have to do key jangling ooh, the sphere and, you know, referencing like Woody Harrelson and McConaughey's characters every other episode, which felt very annoying. And then Master of None is probably not going to get acknowledged.

[00:44:33] I'm trying to think. Lessons in Chemistry feels like a traditional type of series that would get nominated but not win. This does help something like Fargo, maybe, you know, but I feel like it's been so long since it came out that like no one's really talking about it.

[00:44:47] I like Ham is officially kind of done for the count now that Richard Gadd has taken all the momentum. I for the longest time was like, I'm going to wait until that momentum officially shifts. And I think it's more than obvious it already has now.

[00:45:00] And then, you know, I don't know who else watched Feud. I think that could get in mainly just because the Ryan Murphy of it all, the television Emmy loves Ryan Murphy. And it's a very, you know, it's a very entertaining series.

[00:45:11] But other than that, like what we've just been saying the whole time, it seems like three shows are just going to take over the Emmys again this year. Conveniently for us, again, second year in a row, possibly three of the best shows of the year.

[00:45:26] So that helps out a lot. Greetings from Evergreen Podcasts. We're rolling out a listener survey and we want to hear from you. The information in the survey will help us gather statistics and in turn make our shows more appealing to advertisers.

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[00:46:09] We can't thank you enough for the support. Now back to the show. So another thing I want to point out here is that we had a precursor for the Emmy Awards, the Gotham TV Awards inaugural first time ever.

[00:46:28] Gotham Awards handed out awards for television on its own dedicated evening, which I'm a huge fan of. I am so glad that they decided to do this. I don't like it when Gotham or independent film independent for the Spirit Awards have television and film together.

[00:46:47] I love this idea of having them both be on separate nights and at different times of the year. It's great having an award show in June versus January. I'll just say that because quite frankly, it's nice to just spread this stuff out and

[00:47:02] not have everything be so clumped together. But here's what we got as a result of the Gotham TV Awards. We have outstanding performance in a limited series go to Andrew Scott in Ripley against quite a stacked lineup.

[00:47:20] I was actually a little, I don't want to say like super surprised, but I mean, I was definitely surprised. Like I knew that he was, I mean, listen, anyone in this list here, there's a great list of performers.

[00:47:35] Anybody could have won, but I was a little surprised to see Andrew Scott take you here. But I think that just goes to show you that there is love for him. There's love for this show.

[00:47:47] And despite what anyone else may say in terms of, oh, you know, it was a little too slow for me. Oh, it looked pretty, but it couldn't measure up to the Matt Damon one from the 90s or whatever people want to say.

[00:48:02] This still has its fans and Netflix is not going down without a fight here to make sure that Andrew Scott gets recognized, especially after he did not receive Best Actor nomination for all the strangers at the Oscars last year.

[00:48:16] Yeah, that's well, thank you for reminding me about that. I heard it still, but I mean, he does have that afterglow. A lot of people, you know, adore that film, especially the voter base of like the Gothams

[00:48:28] and that type of crowd definitely play into, you know, Andrew Scott as a performer. So it makes sense. That's the other thing too is that people got to remember that something like the Gothams is not voted on by a single body of awards voters.

[00:48:44] Each category has its own jury. So you end up getting a very, very different set list of winners here that may not always line up in terms of one show dominating the evening, which can be nice.

[00:48:59] But then you get very unique winners and certainly inspiring winners like outstanding performance in the drama series going to Zing Sang from Three Body Problem. When I looked at the lineup here, you know, you have them stone in the curse.

[00:49:15] You got Walton Goggins and Fallout who attended, by the way. He was there in Boston. Yeah, I got a chance to meet him and talk to him a little bit about his work on the show

[00:49:24] and got a chance to express my adoration for him as a character actor and just love, you know, that guy is just he's one of those actors who is consistently awesome in everything he does.

[00:49:36] Yeah, I mean, he's also got a smile that will just melt you like butter. That dude has just such charm. Like he's Boyd Crowder. I'm big justified guy. I think that had one of the most all time underrated finales on television ever.

[00:49:52] And him and Timothy Olyphant were just, that's just magic and lightning in a bottle. You know, I think that's hard to replicate that type of chemistry. And he's just, you know, whether it's the shield or he's doing comedy like the righteous

[00:50:06] gemstone, baby Billy, or he's doing vice principals. He's been grinding it out on television for years. And, you know, I wish you would get an Emmy nomination for Fallout. I think it really lets him strut his typical cowboy charm playing into that very westerny trope.

[00:50:26] Always, you know, kind of gets pigeonholed into. But then on the other end of that chick, you know, he's playing a character actor, old westerns in this retrofuturistic setting. And he's doing kind of like spy stuff and family intrigue.

[00:50:44] It's really fascinating and probably one of the more shockingly surprising elements of the series that I really levitated towards. That being said, if he does not get nominated this year, I have a feeling he will for White Lotus next year because they always nominate everyone.

[00:51:01] So congratulations either your Walt and what you think of this win here for saying for a three body problem? I'm not a fan of that show. Sorry to hear that. It's it's a bit rough. I think also that material is a bit difficult to adapt.

[00:51:21] It's a very cerebral, slower paced sci fi series in terms of the book and the way it translate into the show. You know, I think it was cool that Benioff and Weiss got a lot of their Game of Thrones cast together, especially some of the smaller actors.

[00:51:40] And I think that works well. I just think for a show that's only like eight episodes, if I remember, it's kind of pace like a snail. It takes a bit to get going. I think the acting solid, it's nothing out of this world.

[00:51:54] I think some of the visual effects, actually, a lot of the visual effects. It's pretty rough. It's kind of a gross looking show. Blame it on Netflix or just whoever worked on it. You know, sometimes there is the Game of Thrones.

[00:52:07] I can't see like why is my TV so dark that happens in three body problem? It's not really the follow up. I think Benioff and Weiss, you know, really wanted, especially after how Game of Thrones kind of crash landed. I disagree. You liked it?

[00:52:23] I think it's exactly no, no, no. I think it's exactly what they wanted because the reactions to the show were not negative. They were positive when you really break it down. Yeah, and it's going to get more seasons like people watched it and they have they have

[00:52:42] more material to adapt. Like just because you were disappointed with it doesn't mean that they're disappointed with. Oh, no, no, I'm yeah, I totally I maybe I'm just projecting. I just personally didn't like it.

[00:52:53] I just think, you know, it's not the same thing as maybe just the material inherently from George RR Martin in those early seasons. Just far better. I don't know. There are two various types of genres and what they aim to do.

[00:53:07] Giovanna Deppo is very good in the series and Benedict Wong. You know, it's always good seeing him like not do Marvel shit and actually be British, which, you know, sometimes I forget. So that's fun. But other than that, I didn't think it was the most memorable.

[00:53:23] So that I think out of all the Gotham wins might be the more shocking, especially like Emma Stone in the curse on a real. She wasn't there. Okay, yeah, I think I think also this is a testament.

[00:53:36] I'm just going to say this now for the people who think there's a chance Emma Stone could win the Emmy for the curse. I think she's getting nominated. If you actually watch that show and if she can't win at Gotham, which is a crowd that

[00:53:48] plays more into that series, you know, sensibility, I don't expect a television Emmy Academy to come close to awarding that series at an Emmy win. Maybe the show that received the biggest boost all around from the Gotham Awards.

[00:54:05] This remains to be seen, but this is one of our FYC. Hey, you should check this out. Contenders, I would say. Gio, have you heard of this show called Colin from accounts? It's a comedy series, correct? Yeah, I think so.

[00:54:20] Harriet Dyer won outstanding performance in a comedy series and the show one breakthrough comedy series. It's on Paramount Plus. It is this Australian. Yes, it is a bit of a dramedy series by Harriet Dyer, who I mentioned previous

[00:54:40] and her husband, Patrick Bromwell, and they star as the show's main characters. And it's a very simple show. It's basically about this. Excuse me to people who are brought together by a car crash and an injured dog who've been named Colin. OK.

[00:55:05] And they are two very unique, interesting, funny people who. End up revealing to themselves, you know, who the other is, and it's got very, very insightful writing, it's funny as hell, the chemistry between the two of them is unbelievably good.

[00:55:24] I mean, it's you know, listen, they're married to each other in real life, so, you know, you would hope. But it's it was something that really surprised me. I did not expect much from this show, and I was pretty shocked to find out that one

[00:55:40] it existed because I had never heard of it before. Not you know, not just from the Gotham Awards, but like in general, like I had somebody put it on my radar and say to me, hey, you really should check this out if you have not heard of this.

[00:55:52] And I will admit I did not check it out at the time when it was brought on. But then when I saw that it got the Gotham nomination, I was like, you know what? I will check this out now. I highly recommend this show.

[00:56:08] I genuinely really, really do. I think it's probably one of the most underrated shows out there right now. No one seems to really know about its existence, but it is pretty damn good.

[00:56:23] OK, I've heard of it, but I did not even know it's about, but I've heard that title. But like hearing it get wins, you know, that's always cool for like the more underrecognized shows and how it gets a spotlight and maybe more people finally tune into it.

[00:56:36] So, you know, happy for Colin for my account. Then also we had Gerard Carmichael reality show winning for best. Sorry, winning for they don't do best or outstanding. They say breakthrough nonfiction series. And then we had Mr. and Mrs. Smith, your beloved Mr. and Mrs.

[00:56:56] Smith, Gio win for breakthrough drama series, which won out over the curse, fallout, black cake and X-Men 97. That is tough. I would say the best show out of all those is the curse.

[00:57:10] But I still stand by that Mr. and Mrs. Smith was the biggest surprise for me all year like that show. I did not expect to be not even just as great as it was just good in general. Just hearing that you're making a Mr. and Mrs. Smith show.

[00:57:25] Originally, Phoebe Waller Bridge was going to be a show part of it as a showrunner or writer and also star opposite Donald Glover. That being said, it's like it's incredibly sexy and fun and they film in real locations.

[00:57:38] OK, like when they're like, oh, we're in the streets of Italy driving through these tiny roads in a shootout. You know what? They're actually doing it when they're at a ski resort and they're fighting in the snow. They're actually doing it.

[00:57:50] And I think it is incredibly well directed that pilot episode by Hiro Murai is perfect. Donald Glover's phenomenal. I think if before you're Yuki Sonata, you know, move to drama, I would personally vote for Donald Glover to win. And Maya Escrine is also perfect.

[00:58:08] And I've said if you have not watched like they have an argument episode where it was like on par or close to the succession balcony fight in the final season where the way they're just going at each other. I was just like, Mom, Dad, please stop. This hurts.

[00:58:23] I don't want to see this anymore. And the action is fantastic. I love the way the series implements guest actors. I still think probably one of the better shows to do that in recent memory where just people drop by. The guest starring section is packed with big names.

[00:58:39] Yeah, like ridiculous. You got Wagamora and you have Parker Posey and Alexander Skarsgard or John Turturro. There's still so many more I haven't even named. Truly one of the best shows of the year. That is a show that I know you were mentioning earlier.

[00:58:55] You prefer to watch series like at once now, especially where you're at live and how busy you are. I think for me personally, I'm very much the I need a one a week. It helps me pace out my shows. I love having discussions with my friends or family.

[00:59:13] I love the genuine weight because like even if you have like a bad week, you're like, oh shit, it's Saturday or it's Friday. You know what this is? That show. And I think that show also would have stayed a bit more in the popular conversation among

[00:59:27] general audiences with it. I'm happy it's getting a season two. I think I don't know if they announced that before the last pod, but that they confirm season two will happen. If Glover and Esquire return, we don't know. No, it's coming back.

[00:59:44] No, I mean in terms of like in the show as acting, I'm trying to avoid details of the finale. Sorry, they do leave it generally open, you know, but I it's tough, although they could

[00:59:57] lead into an anthology like mode where maybe each season is different, a different Mr. and Mrs. Smith's. I can find that fascinating. I'm very curious to see where they go. But other than that, it is one of the best shows of the year.

[01:00:09] So very happy for that series. And then finally, the ending of the evening came with Baby Reindeer winning for Breakthrough Limited Series. I looked around the room. I saw a lot of people there from Shogun. I had a feeling that that would take it.

[01:00:25] But Baby Reindeer prevailed here over that Ripley, the Sympathizer and Under the Bridge, which also went home empty handed. To me, I just I just have this feeling that Baby Reindeer is going to now like we were saying before, coast. Yeah. To a victory here.

[01:00:41] But Under the Bridge is the other show I would like to shout out here for anyone that's listening right now as something that should definitely be considered. I think Quinn Shepard is one of the most brilliant young minds working today.

[01:00:56] I don't know if you have seen any of her previous work, such as Blame or her performance in the Miseducation of Cameron Post. But, you know, very, very talented, directed a movie.

[01:01:09] I think you might have seen this called Not OK with Zoey Dutch from a few years ago. Oh, yeah. The one where she lied about being in the attack, correct or no? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Pretends to be like the survivor of that bomb. Yeah, yeah.

[01:01:26] But Under the Bridge here, amazing Lily Gladstone performance, great writing all around. Just a really, really solid police procedural, but also to so much more than just that as well. I know it's got a lot of fans out there.

[01:01:43] I hope that it can get some love from television voters. That's one of the ones that I would say, hey, don't forget about this one, guys. And as we kind of get to the end here, Gio, is there anything else that you want to give

[01:01:57] a shout out to in terms of, hey, this is where we're at right now in the season. I see X, Y and Z is getting all this love, but let's throw a bone towards this. Oh, that's tough.

[01:02:10] I think especially I don't know what it has been about this Emmy season. Alas, it feels like just, you know, part two of last year. So I feel like we've just been saying the same things for quite a while now.

[01:02:23] At this point, I would really back the sympathizer. I mentioned the lead actor earlier in the series. I think that show as a whole is just phenomenal work. I have not seen the little drummer girl, which was on a I would think it was an AMC BBC

[01:02:40] co-production like years ago and Park Chan-wook directed that too. And it was a Florence Pugh and Alexander Skarsgard based on the John le Carré novel. Whenever Park Chan-wook is like I'm doing spy stuff. It's great. It's fantastic.

[01:02:54] And I think with the sympathizer, he takes an incredibly rich source material. And I think translates it. There's literally a whole episode where he is assigned to spy on Robert Downey Jr. One of his characters who's like this prick director.

[01:03:12] And it's him making a shitty version of like Apocalypse Now called Hamlet. OK, that's all you need. If I would tell you some of the celebrity cameos that happen, I was like the cast of that movie. I was shocked when they were popping up on screen.

[01:03:25] I had no idea. I just think that show is incredibly clever and witty. And I think more eyes should be put on the sympathizer. And I mean, Shogun, you know, I think it's got enough praise. I don't need to go back on its performances.

[01:03:39] I'm trying to think of another series that either I have seen that it's like slipped through the weeds and maybe acknowledge me. Is there anything you want to mention? I come up with something. Yeah, of course.

[01:03:52] I have a couple of things here I want to mention first and foremost, guys, it's finally time that we show Mike Flanagan some love. Oh, that's a good shout out. Yeah, one of the most consistent minds out there in not just television, but in entertainment in general.

[01:04:08] But because he works within the horror genre, nobody ever puts respect to his name within any of these awards voting bodies. And this extends to to the great work that his cast members also do for him.

[01:04:20] And I think Carla Cugino, especially in the fall of the House of Usher, deserves to be recognized for her work with him and also for this series in general. So I'm giving a shout out for that.

[01:04:34] I also would love, love, love, love, love, love if Lulu Wang's X-Bots some sort of a mention from anybody. Yes, an utterly sublime series. Thank you. Because I literally just recently wrote about it. And I just there's so much going on my mind currently with everything going on.

[01:04:53] It just slipped. But that yes, I think the fifth, the penultimate episode of that series is one of the best written episodes of television I've seen all year. I think the top three actresses in that series, all are lights out.

[01:05:08] I think Lulu Wang really adapts this rich source material, very much focusing on just, you know, materialistic conditions and grieving through like the most unimaginable scenario. And seeing how all these characters lives are just interconnected through this one tragedy. It's fantastic television.

[01:05:28] It is 100% in my top five best things I've seen this year so far in terms of TV. That is a great shout out. I remember people were excited about Nicole Kidman working with her. She was the hook.

[01:05:40] But when you watch the show, the performances from Sari Yoo, Blue and You are like, oh my God, like mind blowingly good. I was saying before. Yeah, that's not a knock against Nicole Kidman.

[01:05:52] I'm just saying that these other actresses are on her level and at times definitely exceeding, I think too. And Lulu Wang brings like an air of audistry to her work that, you know,

[01:06:07] I say what you want to say about her in like probably the biggest power couple dynamic ever with Barry Jenkins. But the two of them just have the same sensibilities and how they shoot their characters, how every frame feels like it's so enriched with

[01:06:27] love and poignancy and creativity and how it's going to be framed and how the colors going to have a subliminal impact on like your brain. To me, there's just like this level of quality to her filmmaking style that I,

[01:06:48] I swear to God, if it takes this many years between projects again, because the farewell came out in 2019 and this is now five years later. I swear I'm not going to survive because I need Lulu Wang to work more often, please.

[01:07:03] I'm very grateful though, that we got six quality television episodes out of her though for this. And I hope that this does not get forgotten about. I agree. I think it's phenomenal television. That is one that deserves to be more acknowledged.

[01:07:18] I feel like it's fallen to the route of the Underground Railroad, although the Underground Railroad kind of performed pretty solidly with the Emmys, although it missed in areas where it should not have because the acting in that show was brilliant. That being said, I think it's that prestige,

[01:07:35] artsy drama that came out this year where we're going to look back on it like a decade from now. We're going to be like, that's exquisite work. That's probably some of the best in that filmmakers filmography. Yeah. Yeah. I could definitely see that.

[01:07:50] Beyond that, you know, you have the obvious things and it doesn't necessarily bear worth repeating, but then there's like other things too, where I'm like, ah, you know, this is still around. Let's not forget about this just because it's been around for a while, like fellow travelers.

[01:08:06] Oh yeah. Like I get it. I understand how it's easy for these other shows to come along and push them to the side. But Jonathan Bailey, especially like, please, for the love of God, people, please do the right thing. Do not forget Jonathan Bailey.

[01:08:23] I think he will get nominated. I still think he's a semi-stealth contender. I think if, you know, the sympathizer really underperforms, watch out. That being said, Robert Downey Jr. is like on top of the world right now. When is he not?

[01:08:38] Yeah. But like when you're just, you know, off a billion, almost a billion dollar movie that is considered one of the coolest best picture winners ever and part of this movement and

[01:08:47] he wins his first Oscar and now he's probably going to get an Emmy in that same like calendar year for it. It's pretty tough to just shrug off that the star status of that one alone, because you can make the argument that Jonathan Bailey's work might be better.

[01:09:03] That being said, I've seen Knox against Downey's work in the Sympathizer. I think, of course, it plays up to the hamminess like I mentioned, but certain of the character, like there's one character called Clyde who's like the main CIA

[01:09:15] agent he plays and the way he manipulates his traditional Downey-isms and that charm and inherently there's something very evil beneath it that's bubbling out is terrifying to watch every time he interacts with Shlondie who like them together on screen. Perfect. I do want to shout out a show,

[01:09:37] which I don't know if we talked about on this podcast. John Mulaney's Everybody is in LA. Oh yeah, I have not watched this but I've heard about this. Some of the best television you'll watch all year. It feels like an insight joke that was just given

[01:09:54] like one of the biggest platforms to stream on and it's John Mulaney and it's six parts and it's his four way into a late night series, sketch television. And he just brings on these very eclectic crowds like one episode he'll just have,

[01:10:14] yeah, I have like Bill Hader here and then or I'll have this other comic and then also here's a person who works at this museum and we learn more about like the natural wonders that take

[01:10:26] place in California and explores the beauty of it and also the oddities. It's the only show where he's going to have Richard Kind play his Guillermo role who is beefing with a robot and then the

[01:10:37] next bit you know, you just have Wayne Grow from fucking heat doing stand up dressed as like the Wayne Grow character with the robe and the bloody face and everything and it feels like jokes only

[01:10:50] specific to him and also this incredible evolution of his comedy style, especially post, you know, rehab and baby J and this new phase of his life as a father. It's like him finding himself and

[01:11:04] exploring himself in a new way as a comic. And I think it's utterly fascinating. Like the final episode is like, hey, we have our guest here, go find Flea. And then while you're doing that,

[01:11:16] oh, here's John Carpenter as a guest, like John Carpenter never leaves his house. And here he is like on this faux talk show and then we're going to end the episode with a live performance from

[01:11:27] Beck. It's just so specific in all the right ways. I think you should all watch it. The six episodes. It was a delight watching it live when it happens. I was late to the catch up, but I got

[01:11:41] to see like the last two episodes live and it's just outlandish television in all the best ways. And the last two performances I want to mention real quickly. I'm a sap for some romance. I'm

[01:11:53] a yearner. I love love. That being said Netflix is one day I think Ambika Maad and Leo Woodall especially are phenomenal. I think Leo Woodall like looks like a long lost Hemsworth brother, especially in the earlier episodes with his hair. Utterly fantastic. It's kind of like

[01:12:13] normal people light in terms of like, I don't think the performances match up to the you know what Meskel and Daisy Edgar Jones did. And I don't think it has that refined direction that Lenny Abramson and that beautiful score for normal people by Steven Reddix, which

[01:12:27] I still listen to all the time. It does have like that Netflix sheen in terms of its camera work, but I think the needle drops in that show are like perfect. Whether it's Elliot Smith or Pitfall

[01:12:39] or Petzala. And I think those performances are fantastic in the way you see those characters evolve and they're just you watch a pair and you're like, oh, these these two are going to end up,

[01:12:49] you know, doing big things. And Leo Woodall is already working on another Bridget Jones sequel. Like he's doing his romcom dreams that he's talked about recently. And he was on White Lotus

[01:13:01] in season two and a part of one of the greatest line readings ever put on television where, yeah, you fuck your uncle, which still plays in my head all the time. And Abiga Mod is fantastic.

[01:13:13] I'm blanking on the name of the show. She did this medical job. It would been wish all. Oh, yes, yes. Oh, my God. What the hell was the name of that thing?

[01:13:23] Um, I know this. It was it. This is going to hurt. Yeah, this is gonna hurt. Yeah. Which I never finished. But from what I saw, I loved and I think she is a fascinating actress who also was a big

[01:13:36] fan of the book. And you can tell and I think the author of the book also worked on the series. And I think it's definitely far better adaptation than the Anne Hathaway film,

[01:13:47] which when you watch that, you're like, okay, all right. But the show's good. And by the end, I was just utterly devastated. So it did its job and in part because of, you know, what all

[01:13:57] in mind. So thank you, you too. All right. And I think that's going to just about do it here for this episode. There are going to be some new shows that we are going to be talking about

[01:14:10] in the weeks to come. I know we have presumed innocent with Jake Gyllenhaal, Ruth Nega, Bill Camp, Elizabeth Marvel, Renata Ranzva, Peter Sarsgaard. Great cast there. We also have to watch Eric with Benedict Cumberbatch because that was a late, late last minute miniseries drop from

[01:14:33] Netflix that technically because of its date, May 30th did qualify for this year. The reviews have been somewhat all over the place, but I'm curious because, you know, that's one of those things where I wouldn't put it past the Television Academy to just name check Benedict Cumberbatch,

[01:14:51] you know? So I'll probably be all caught up with that for our next episode. As mentioned earlier, the month of June stacked crazy, so much to come. And then we got to do predictions and

[01:15:05] God knows what else as we look forward to the Television Academy Awards coming up on September 15th. Giovanni Lago, tell everyone that's listening right now where they can find you on the internet. You can find me on Twitter at DGiovanni Lago and on Letterboxd at Gio52.

[01:15:27] And you can find me at Next Best Picture. I want to say thank you to all who are listening right now because typically we do these episodes here for the Next Best Series podcast for our Patreon

[01:15:41] listeners. But for this week, you are getting this episode for free because we want Television Academy voters to hear our pleas for what we are advocating for when they are going to nominate

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