"Monkey Man"

[00:00:00] You are listening to the Next Best Picture Podcast and this is our review of Monkey Man.

[00:00:05] Close your eyes and you will find yourself.

[00:00:15] When I was a boy, my mother used to tell me a story of a demon king and his army.

[00:00:26] They brought fire and terror to the land.

[00:00:31] Until they faced the protector of the people.

[00:00:36] The white monkey.

[00:00:43] There you are.

[00:00:47] You are a beast.

[00:00:53] In this city, the rich don't see us as people.

[00:00:57] Give me the job no one wants to do. I'll do it.

[00:01:02] Anyone who forgets their place, it doesn't turn out well for them.

[00:01:09] This is not the place to work if you can't handle that sort of stuff.

[00:01:19] Every day, I've prayed for a way to protect the weak.

[00:01:24] I've got an answer to every prayer.

[00:01:27] I call on Nikki.

[00:01:29] Minaj, big bumper, nice headlight.

[00:01:33] Let's boogie.

[00:01:34] Alright everybody, you are just listening to the trailer for Monkey Man and the story is as follows.

[00:01:39] A young man eeks out a meager living in an underground fight club where night after night, wearing a gorilla mask,

[00:01:45] he's beaten bloody by more popular fighters with cash.

[00:01:49] After years of suppressed rage, he discovers a way to infiltrate the enclave of the city's sinister elite.

[00:01:55] As his childhood of trauma boils over, his mysteriously scarred hands unleash an explosive campaign of retribution

[00:02:01] to settle the score with the men who took everything from him.

[00:02:05] The film is starring Dev Patel, Sharto Copli, Pito Bache, Soapita Dupiawa,

[00:02:12] Gunnawella, Sekander Kerr, Vipin Sharma, Ashwini Kalsakar, Aditi Kalkute and Makarand Deshpande.

[00:02:22] It is written and directed by Dev Patel and co-written by Paul and Gunnawella and John Coley.

[00:02:28] Here to join me today for this podcast review I have Dan Baer,

[00:02:33] Blessings from my mother,

[00:02:35] Josh Parham,

[00:02:37] Hello Hello,

[00:02:38] and Daniel Howitt.

[00:02:40] Hello.

[00:02:41] Alright, so Monkey Man had its world premiere at the South by Southwest Film Festival

[00:02:46] where Dan, you saw it there with a really, really amped up crowd.

[00:02:52] The reactions to it have been pretty strong and there's been a lot of talk about the production of this whole project,

[00:03:00] how it was originally going to be dumped on Netflix,

[00:03:03] Jordan Peele essentially like resurrected this thing,

[00:03:07] it got moved over to Universal,

[00:03:09] Dev Patel nearly killed himself trying to make this movie.

[00:03:12] Pretty much everything went wrong during the shoot,

[00:03:16] broke his hand I heard, various other things.

[00:03:19] I mean this thing just sounded like a nightmare to complete.

[00:03:22] Well now it is playing in theaters courtesy of Universal Pictures under Jordan Peele's Monkey Paw Productions Production Company

[00:03:31] and Dev Patel is now a feature director.

[00:03:35] This is his directorial debut and I feel like this is the kind of film that we've always known that Dev Patel had in him.

[00:03:42] As I've seen some people say on the internet, tongue-in-cheek wise, he's got that slumdog in him.

[00:03:48] And I understand it, I get it.

[00:03:52] I understand that this is the kind of role that people have been wondering for years,

[00:03:56] is he going to be the next James Bond?

[00:03:59] Dev Patel deserves an action franchise.

[00:04:01] Well, he created one for himself potentially.

[00:04:04] We'll see if this has any sequel potential down the line.

[00:04:07] Many people have been equating this to something like John Wick in that regard.

[00:04:11] But let's talk about it. Let's dive into Monkey Man and hear what everyone has to say starting off with.

[00:04:17] Dan Baer because Dan you were as I said at that world premiere where the energy, the vibes were just electric.

[00:04:25] Tell me a little bit about just that atmosphere

[00:04:28] and do you think in some way maybe, I don't mean this like in a negative way.

[00:04:33] I'm just like trying to ask from a realistic standpoint,

[00:04:35] do you think it conflated and maybe overhyped this a little bit now that it's being seen by more people?

[00:04:42] I mean, yeah, I feel like South by Southwest premieres are very often like that.

[00:04:47] That audience is primed and ready to enjoy whatever they're going to see

[00:04:54] and that can result in some quite outsized reactions sometimes.

[00:05:02] But for me anyway, while I was watching Monkey Man, this movie totally deserved all that hype that it got at that festival.

[00:05:11] I think it's one of those things where like, especially since no one really knew what the movie was like,

[00:05:18] we had gotten a trailer, but there was still an air of mystery about what the movie was actually going to be.

[00:05:26] I think that is something that at least for me ended up really impressing me with the final product

[00:05:33] because I think this does so much more than it has to at just about every turn.

[00:05:42] Dev Patel, it's a shockingly ambitious movie for your debut feature.

[00:05:49] I mean, not only did he direct it, he co-wrote it, he stars in the lead role doing a lot of if not all of his own stunts.

[00:05:58] It's really incredible work and the vision behind it all for me is a large part of what really makes it work.

[00:06:08] It is really cohesive and just laser focused on what it wants to do.

[00:06:15] I was really impressed at not just the the kineticism of the action sequences here,

[00:06:22] but also at the depth of the characters and themes weaving in these religious and political themes

[00:06:32] like he does throughout this movie that are seemingly commenting on the current state of India,

[00:06:40] but I do not know enough about what's going on there to say anything so I won't.

[00:06:44] I'll just say that like this kind of movie didn't need to go that route, but it did

[00:06:52] and I think is all the better for it.

[00:06:56] I think that this movie doesn't become just a one-man revenge saga.

[00:07:03] It's about a man learning that, for lack of a better phrase, it's not all about him.

[00:07:11] That there is purpose in fighting for other people as well.

[00:07:15] That what has affected him in his youth didn't just affect him,

[00:07:20] that it also affects other people and that he can do something to help.

[00:07:25] That was something that really touched me when it got to the end of this movie.

[00:07:30] On top of that, just the filmmaking is insane and exactly what I would want from the host John Wick action film.

[00:07:41] It's stunningly shot and edited and I had a blast watching it.

[00:07:47] Yeah, I was a little surprised at the premiere when this got like a three to five minute standing ovation

[00:07:54] once it finished for for Dev Patel, but you know, I'm not mad about it.

[00:08:00] So Dev Patel basically plays Batman in this movie is what I'm hearing. Got it.

[00:08:04] Okay.

[00:08:05] I mean yeah, kind of.

[00:08:07] Alright, Josh Parm on to you sir.

[00:08:10] My number one Dev Patel stan on the team.

[00:08:14] What did you think of this man?

[00:08:16] I well, first of all went into this movie with a very high level of anticipation because yes, I am a devotee of Dev Patel.

[00:08:26] I am a big fan of his for many reasons that is true.

[00:08:30] But then the trailer also looked really intriguing and knowing that yeah, this was going to go to Netflix originally

[00:08:35] but Jordan Peele kind of came in and saved it for theaters was really, really interesting to me.

[00:08:42] And I think the final product I'm kind of mixed on.

[00:08:47] On the one hand, as Dan said this is pretty ambitious for a first time feature and I think that Patel does show a lot of promise in that regard.

[00:08:57] I think that there are some action sequences that are really, really well put together that feels so kinetic and and very energizing and are really, really well done.

[00:09:08] But I don't find that to be consistent throughout the entire movie.

[00:09:12] I think especially the first half and I had trouble like really settling into the narrative that it was building.

[00:09:19] And while I think as it goes on, it those pieces get better, a better place.

[00:09:24] I still found myself at a bit of a distance and trying to really find the the impact here.

[00:09:31] And I even think some of that is with his direction.

[00:09:34] There are like some sequences that just are all close ups and it's a little disorienting and a little suffocating, you know, and I think that can be effective when placed strategically not when it's the entire movie.

[00:09:49] So even some of the filmmaking I found to be a little off putting.

[00:09:54] But I do think overall I still had fun with it.

[00:09:57] And especially when we get towards the finale, that's when the movie really, really starts to sing.

[00:10:02] And I found myself being very entertained by it at that section.

[00:10:06] There's also a bit where it sort of gets away from the action that I also thought gave a really interesting perspective of Indian culture that I was really, really glad to see.

[00:10:16] So I'm mixed on it.

[00:10:19] I will I lean positive because I had a good time with it.

[00:10:21] I don't think it's amazing.

[00:10:23] I don't think it's a masterpiece.

[00:10:24] It definitely feels very rough around the edges.

[00:10:26] But as a general action movie experience, I had a decent time with it to say that it was a pretty good one.

[00:10:35] All right, Daniel Howard, how about you?

[00:10:38] Well, I first of all think that it's time I speak my truth.

[00:10:42] And that's that I think John Wick is only OK.

[00:10:46] Speak for yourself, sir.

[00:10:50] Thank you.

[00:10:51] I know, I know it's really difficult.

[00:10:53] It's really this is a really difficult moment for me to say that out loud.

[00:10:56] But it does feel good to get that off my chest.

[00:10:58] And the reason I say that is because obviously there are so many clear comparisons between John Wick and Monkey Man.

[00:11:05] But there are also a lot of clear differences.

[00:11:07] And so going into Monkey Man, I really didn't know was I going to think it was just OK like like I do with John Wick movies?

[00:11:14] Or or was it going to be something more?

[00:11:17] And honestly, I'm really surprised that I like this even more than the John Wick movies.

[00:11:23] And yes, it is just another revenge flick in the style of John Wick and others.

[00:11:28] But I really I really found it to be well done.

[00:11:31] And I found myself connecting to the main character story a lot more than I do in some of those other movies.

[00:11:38] So I think Dev's performance struck the perfect balance for me of intensity for the fight sequences and the deeply felt pain of his earlier years.

[00:11:51] And, you know, what happened with his family and things like that.

[00:11:54] So, you know, like Dan was saying, it weaves in these these political and religious themes as well in really powerful ways.

[00:12:02] So for me, it really was elevated above other just straightforward action flicks.

[00:12:08] But of course, the action is also incredible.

[00:12:11] You know, it feels like repetitive or like wrote to say, but like the action I think is so well done.

[00:12:17] So visceral and brutal and bloody and really, really exciting.

[00:12:23] And it also has a decent sense of humor too.

[00:12:25] The trailers hadn't shown that moment of Dev like running down the hallway and jumping into the window because that's such a great joke.

[00:12:32] It is so funny.

[00:12:34] And so I was bummed that it was in the trailer, but but there's other things like that.

[00:12:38] Like there are great moments of humor along the way as well.

[00:12:40] So I'm a big fan.

[00:12:42] I'm a big fan of the movie.

[00:12:44] Is the story extraordinarily memorable?

[00:12:47] No, you know, it's still a standard revenge action movie with with character is characterization of the

[00:12:55] like, but you know, I still really enjoyed it.

[00:12:59] Is it clearly a ripoff of the John John wick is a shun of action movies?

[00:13:04] Yes.

[00:13:05] And they even call out the John Wick movies by name, which I kind of wish they hadn't done.

[00:13:09] But overall, I was really into the film.

[00:13:12] I think I think Patel crafted such a brilliant, ambitious, complex movie for his debut.

[00:13:20] And it really speaks to, I think his promise as a director.

[00:13:25] So I can't wait to see what else he does next, whether stories he cooks up because I think there's a lot of good stuff here.

[00:13:33] I really, really enjoyed looking in.

[00:13:36] So I agree with a lot that's been said here.

[00:13:40] I think this is a swing for the fences, gritty, angry, straight up action flick.

[00:13:50] It has a lot of promise, as you all have said regarding Dev Patel's path now as a director.

[00:14:00] Maybe he continues to direct himself.

[00:14:02] Maybe he'll direct other projects where he's not starring in it.

[00:14:05] Who knows?

[00:14:06] Maybe there'll be a monkey man too.

[00:14:08] I don't know.

[00:14:09] But what I do know is that what I felt while watching this movie is that even though not every punch necessarily lands,

[00:14:16] I do agree that this is a very gritty and scrappy movie.

[00:14:21] Like it feels rough around the edges at times, even though it's highly ambitious in its cinematography,

[00:14:27] its shot selection, and what it's setting out to achieve.

[00:14:31] Even though it's not perfect, it is emotionally fueled in a way where I could feel the passion from Dev Patel both behind and in front of the camera.

[00:14:43] He unleashes an intensity that I've always felt like he had within him.

[00:14:49] I remember specifically watching him in a very underrated small movie called The Wedding Guest back in 2018 and thinking to myself,

[00:15:01] man,

[00:15:02] AKA his James Bond audition.

[00:15:04] Right, but like, you know, he's got such like action movie star potential.

[00:15:10] And then you kind of saw that in a different sort of way in an art house film like The Green Night.

[00:15:16] And I feel like his career has been building up to a moment like this and it just feels such,

[00:15:21] it feels like such a, I don't want to say complete 180, but like a really natural evolution from the young boy that we met in Slumdog Millionaire

[00:15:32] to being in the best exotic Maric Old Hotel films.

[00:15:36] You know, then becoming a bit more of like of a man on screen with something like Lion.

[00:15:41] And here we are today now with this and it's like, man, he's not necessarily like built and buff like the rock,

[00:15:50] let's say, but he does have this underdog like built about him where I look at him and I say to myself,

[00:16:00] okay, that guy doesn't necessarily look like he could straight up knock you out in a fight.

[00:16:08] But he looks like he could take a hit and dish them out.

[00:16:11] And he might just be able to withstand enough hits to outlast his opponents.

[00:16:17] And I love that that's the direction that the fighting in this movie takes where this guy gets the ever living shit beat out of him

[00:16:24] constantly throughout this entire thing.

[00:16:27] And it makes the fights, in my opinion, feel so much more dramatic.

[00:16:31] You really feel the stakes of it all.

[00:16:33] He doesn't feel super human.

[00:16:35] He feels like a normal everyday guy who can just take more punishment than most others can.

[00:16:42] Why? Because he's fueled by something.

[00:16:45] He's got real motivation and real purpose.

[00:16:48] And so for this movie then to kind of take a bit of a turn and then call into question, well, what is that purpose?

[00:16:53] It allows for some, you know, I think good introspective character building,

[00:16:58] but at the same time, this isn't necessarily anything groundbreaking.

[00:17:02] This isn't necessarily anything new.

[00:17:04] The story structure is very, very simple.

[00:17:06] Now I will admit as has already been admitted.

[00:17:10] I do not, and I reckon everyone else here agrees, we do not know that much about Indian culture to maybe speak

[00:17:17] subtextually to some other things that are referenced in this movie that could help contextualize certain storytelling elements.

[00:17:24] Fully recognize that, fully acknowledge that.

[00:17:27] So maybe there is more to unpack here and there are probably better voices out there that can speak to this more so.

[00:17:33] On the surface though, this is a good time.

[00:17:37] I had a blast with this and I really enjoyed it, especially on my second viewing because I will admit

[00:17:42] I was maybe a little bit more in Josh's camp on the first viewing than I was after the second viewing.

[00:17:48] And also too, I think a large reason for that was no offense Dan, like I said,

[00:17:52] I think just the hype from South by Southwest like really just put my expectations maybe a little too high heading into this.

[00:18:00] No, I got that.

[00:18:01] What we get though, I think is a lot of fun.

[00:18:04] And with that said, I do want to start off first by talking about Patel as a director because this is something new that we haven't seen from him before.

[00:18:12] We've seen him act in front of the camera and I don't think that this is like his overall best performance he's ever given,

[00:18:19] but I will say that it's definitely one of his most unique because we've never seen him be this physical before on screen.

[00:18:26] So there's, I guess, another element to speak to regarding that but in terms of his direction overall,

[00:18:32] Josh you had some criticisms to bring up here and I have been wondering since my first viewing of this,

[00:18:39] do you think the choice to shoot a lot of this in handheld close-up?

[00:18:44] Do you think some of that was maybe done out of a place of like is it like is it an intentional stylistic choice?

[00:18:51] I think it's coming from a place maybe of insecurity to kind of hide certain mistakes.

[00:18:55] Like what did you think of that choice?

[00:18:58] Yeah, I did think of that a little bit.

[00:19:00] I was also thinking just about the production history of this movie and how arduous that was and I don't know if maybe that contributed a bit.

[00:19:09] But I feel like it is overall a pretty specific choice to have things feel kind of,

[00:19:16] as you said, that handheld look it feels very gritty and down to earth.

[00:19:20] And as I said in my opening thoughts, I think you can do that strategically and it's really, really effective.

[00:19:26] I think the problem for me is just because it is throughout the entire movie it feels like.

[00:19:32] I guess found that that particular style just really wasn't for me.

[00:19:37] I had a very difficult time connecting to this narrative in that way and connecting to these characters.

[00:19:43] And we get these scenes where it's supposed to be no action.

[00:19:46] It's just drama or getting exposition plot details and the camera is like all canted, canted angles and we're so close to people.

[00:19:55] And it feels like I need some space here.

[00:19:58] Like there's time for the image in the scene to feel very claustrophobic and chaotic,

[00:20:04] but not when I'm just trying to figure out like who is the person that the main character is talking to.

[00:20:09] And I feel like because of that, I had a hard time really just throwing myself into the overall film

[00:20:17] because it was very inconsistent in terms of how much I felt engaged by the material because of the way that it was shot.

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[00:21:38] There were times though while watching this too where I was reminded maybe deliberately so,

[00:21:42] maybe he did look towards this as a source of inspiration.

[00:21:45] I do not know.

[00:21:47] But I was reminded of watching Slumdog Millionaire while watching this in terms of Anthony Dogg Mantle's work on that film,

[00:21:53] especially one scene in particular where a purse is handed off from person to person through the streets.

[00:21:59] And I was thinking about like that hyperkinetic on-the-ground style where it just feels like everything is moving super fast

[00:22:07] and all these odd camera angles and shot placements that just feel so bizarre,

[00:22:14] but then when you see it edited together, it flows in a way that just feels very energetic and exciting.

[00:22:21] And so listen, like I said, I don't know if he was deliberately looking towards something like that or who knows.

[00:22:26] But it reminded me of that film's similar vibe in that way.

[00:22:31] Well, that's in particular.

[00:22:33] Yeah, I agree.

[00:22:35] I think overall this in return to be worked for me.

[00:22:38] I agree sometimes it feels claustrophobic, but I felt like sometimes that fit the scenes where the scenes were,

[00:22:44] some of the fight scenes were more intentionally uncomfortable or intentionally claustrophobic boxed in.

[00:22:52] I appreciate that the fight scenes are mostly shot not so much in wides, but with very little edits.

[00:22:59] Yeah, the choreography is wild.

[00:23:02] I don't know who did the fight choreography for this,

[00:23:05] but there are so many incredible sequences that are inventive as well.

[00:23:10] And I appreciated your point, Matt, for just how beat to shit his character gets.

[00:23:16] Like this is not a superhuman character here and that really helps the fight scenes feel more vivid and believable.

[00:23:24] I think it speaks to Dev's taste as a director that he like chose for the cinematographer for this movie,

[00:23:34] Sharon Maier, who shot Whiplash, which is not necessarily like a movie where you think,

[00:23:43] yeah, I want that cinematographer for my action movie.

[00:23:47] But when you think about it, those a lot of those music scenes in Whiplash are edited like action sequences.

[00:23:56] And you get these shots where he really is able to capture not just the speed of them playing the instruments,

[00:24:09] but like the literal blood, sweat and tears that they're pouring into it.

[00:24:14] And I think that was one of the things that really stood out for me was that the you get these fight sequences in Monkey Man,

[00:24:22] where you're really able to see and feel how brutal all these fighting is because it's real street fighting.

[00:24:32] Like they leave no stone unturned, grabbing anything that can get their hands on or their teeth on.

[00:24:40] Oh, Jesus.

[00:24:43] You know, but like it really takes that to the next level in terms of just like matching the fight choreography to get down in the dirt and the muck with it.

[00:24:58] And I also appreciated that unlike something like Roadhouse, which I will only connect to this movie because they both premiered it South by Southwest.

[00:25:08] But they do something similar with the cinematography, with these fight scenes with this kinetic visuals and specifically the like a few moments in Monkey Man where they actually go into this fighter's eye POV shot.

[00:25:22] But I think it's done much better.

[00:25:25] It's much better edited into the overall whole in Monkey Man than it is in Roadhouse.

[00:25:32] And Roadhouse cost a lot more money than Monkey Man to make.

[00:25:37] Gee, I wonder whose salary contributed towards that.

[00:25:40] But yeah, I completely agree with you, Dan.

[00:25:43] I think that the scrappy quality of the choreography here and how it's like people just like crawling on each other just to gain the advantage while there's, you know, water from the toilet and poop flowing everywhere in the scene and like, you know, crawling over glass and biting each other's noses like you were saying.

[00:26:05] Like there's all these like elements where it just feels so and I'm sorry to use this word because I know it's used in the marketing too, but primal.

[00:26:12] And that quality is something that even though for the fight choreography itself, like when there are times where it's supposed to look slick and he's blocking shots and throwing kicks and all this stuff, it did feel a little...

[00:26:28] It did feel a little like, you know, like, okay, here's your cue now. Here's my cue.

[00:26:32] Like it wasn't flowing with the kind of speed that I would like to have seen necessarily and something that I think John Wick does very flawlessly in terms of its action, see, action choreography.

[00:26:44] But those moments where this movie didn't feel choreographed, where it was just like monowy mono like two guys just trying to rip each other to shreds by any means necessary.

[00:26:54] Those were the moments in the action that I mostly appreciated here.

[00:26:58] Yeah, but I guess also to the point of the John Wick comparisons like that is a franchise about somebody who really knows what he's doing.

[00:27:07] And to give this movie some credit as we have mentioned, I do like the idea that we start off with a character who only has an idea of revenge, but does not have the proper skills to execute that plan.

[00:27:22] And I always really do like that. I find that to be really fascinating when we can watch somebody who is in a traditional action hero role, but is not behaving necessarily like that in terms of the fight sequences.

[00:27:35] And like that very first one that we get in that bathroom, I like how messy it is.

[00:27:39] I think that it's really perfectly capturing this person who just is running on emotion, but that's it.

[00:27:48] And I like that the choreography shows that that he doesn't know how to get the upper hand in all of these situations.

[00:27:55] And then as the movie goes on, yeah, he gets better skills and he becomes more accomplished and and that is really well represented.

[00:28:04] So I do like that even even though I have complained that some sequences I don't think deserve that kind of same aesthetic.

[00:28:14] At least in the fight sequences that there is that evolution of somebody who doesn't really know what they're doing and then gains that confidence more and more as it goes on without ever feeling like it crosses over into he is completely indestructible either.

[00:28:27] My only big issue with this movie, it's not even so much to stuff that we've said regarding cinematography my real complaint my real issue.

[00:28:36] I love the first act of this movie.

[00:28:39] I love the third act of this movie.

[00:28:41] I think the second act has some serious pacing problems compared to its bookends.

[00:28:46] Oh, I have thoughts.

[00:28:47] Yep.

[00:28:48] I actually think that for me it's a little different than that.

[00:28:53] I think the actual first act of the movie is for me what has the pacing issues.

[00:28:58] Yeah, second act of the movie I think is the heart of the movie really and that sort of crystallized for me on the second viewing.

[00:29:06] How about a training montage sequence though?

[00:29:08] I'll say that much.

[00:29:09] That sequence with the training and with the tabla, the traditional drumming there, I like I needed a cigarette after that.

[00:29:20] Okay.

[00:29:21] That was exhilarating and they both just kept going and going and like talk about like you feel the energy and that seemed like you feel these two building off of each other.

[00:29:33] And then again like I was talking about in the beginning like how this movie does so much more than it has to.

[00:29:39] When that sequence goes from just a training montage to weaving in these sociopolitical and religious elements and you realize that he is learning about what is going on in his country.

[00:29:59] Like he's awakening to what else is happening outside of him and learning that he has to fight for not just himself but for also these other people that injustice did not just happen to him even though his drama is very real.

[00:30:16] It's happened to numerous people and in this one sequence, he connects this character who we don't get a name for.

[00:30:28] He's just called the kid in the cast list and marketing materials but you see him learning to actually like throw some good punches.

[00:30:40] You see how he's able to become more aware of his not just his immediate surroundings but of his general political surroundings and you give him a reason to keep fighting.

[00:30:55] The whole every impetus for the third act is seated into that second act into this one sequence.

[00:31:05] It's insanely ambitious and he pulls it off really, really well.

[00:31:13] Yeah, I, Dan, you said that perfectly.

[00:31:15] That's exactly why that that middle act is where the movie starts to sing for me now.

[00:31:21] I really enjoyed the first act more than you guys it seems, but the broader awareness that he develops of exactly like Dan said like the injustice that's happened around him is so, so good and the way it's done in like that traditional fighting montage sequence is brilliant.

[00:31:41] And even without knowing the the subtext of what's going on in India and how this relates to the political situation there because I just don't unfortunately it still works, even if you don't have that knowledge I think it's crafted in such a way that you you still understand the broad strokes of what's happening.

[00:32:03] And through I forget the character's name the guy who's running for political office that we keep seeing ads for.

[00:32:09] Baba.

[00:32:10] Yeah, those those still make sense even if you don't understand the broader political context and it helps deepen his relationship to his own trauma.

[00:32:23] And so that whole middle sequence is really phenomenal for me and really kind of solidified when I was really into this movie.

[00:32:30] I get all of this and I agree with all of this and I do agree that it also deepens the movie at least on a thematic level.

[00:32:38] I just had problems with the pacing.

[00:32:40] That's all I'm saying.

[00:32:41] I do understand that to a bit.

[00:32:43] I do because that is definitely when the movie starts to slow down and I think predictably so like at the minute it starts up you kind of know alright well this is the time when he needs to rest he's going to start to train like you know it is a section of action

[00:32:59] movies that we have seen before.

[00:33:01] But I think that the reason why I was pulled into it is because yeah we were deepening the the story and the kind of atmosphere of this world and getting more motivation for these characters and and I did very very much appreciate that I like that we were getting this new perspective with this other community that was helping him which feels very radical for a movie like this and I loved though all those characters

[00:33:27] who were like alpha who shows up I thought I wanted more of that character I thought she was great and I love the kind of like mentor ish role that she was providing for him and I wish there was more of her in this movie and and I really loved seeing a glimpse into that community

[00:33:43] and yeah even though we may not all have the specific knowledge of what is going on in Indian culture and politics the ideas of a religious figure coming into the political realm just you know on on the the guys of wanting to help people but really it's all just for

[00:34:02] their own personal power like you know and going after marginalized groups I don't think that's something that we in America are that's a foreign concept to us so no yeah it's very very much relatable as as how it said on the broad stroke so and that's the section of the movie where we really start to dig into that and I very

[00:34:20] very much appreciated it some of our issues I want to point out here that I had and maybe you guys disagree with this too I don't know but I don't mind the window bit so much because I like as I said earlier I like that kid Bobby whatever you want to call him

[00:34:39] and this Dev Patel is made out to be just a regular guy just a regular guy who can take it and condition but there are these moments where it feels like the film is trying to play for comedy like you know the scene where

[00:34:57] Josh is character Alfonso like calls his car Nicky after Nicki Minaj and things like that I was like this does not feel like it fits within the grander context of what's being presented here and I just wish that those if you are going to inject this film with those

[00:35:15] splashes of comedy maybe make it a bit more consistent because between just the window bit and not I didn't really or maybe I don't know maybe I know I well you know what there was one ever bit to there was the bit where in the fight in the ring where he just knocks the guy out after all this like

[00:35:32] that was good come on.

[00:35:34] Yeah, that one was good that one was pretty good but I do feel that there is an inconsistency here in terms of balancing the more serious storytelling with the comedy.

[00:35:43] I do feel like specifically with Peterbosch's character is where that comes in and I think that like the humor works for that character, but I think you're right that that specific type of humor kind of feels out of place in the world that the movie creates.

[00:36:02] Yeah.

[00:36:03] Like the more dark comedy that comes in the fight scenes that works and feels of a piece with it but yeah the stuff like the line about this carving Nicki Minaj like it.

[00:36:14] It's funny.

[00:36:15] I laughed, but it doesn't feel like it fits into the this world.

[00:36:23] And that's part of my thing with like with the first act.

[00:36:25] I think that it just takes a really long time to get going and then once it finally does get going you have to go right into the second act.

[00:36:36] Yeah, the first act is like kind of almost a different movie.

[00:36:39] It kind of yeah, you know, and I think like that character would work for that kind of a movie and then it does make a pivot one too.

[00:36:49] I think it's more interesting for sure.

[00:36:51] But yeah, and also feels like that movie just sort of drops him at that point doesn't really give him much to do after that and it feels like this character who was meant for a very specific kind of comic relief now just is in the back end with nothing to do.

[00:37:08] And if you don't really like that comedy to begin with it feels very, very superfluous.

[00:37:12] That's exactly how I felt too about Charlton Copely's character who was presented and was made out to be in my opinion a bit of a bigger deal in the overall story and then the movie just drops him and completely forgets about him.

[00:37:24] Well, I didn't have any complaints about that because I don't like Charlton Copely.

[00:37:28] Yeah, but that plays as a cameo like that means something more, but then the cameo ends up almost being a little bit distracting like it would have been better if that was a totally unknown person.

[00:37:39] And that's the thing too is that I agree, Josh like Charlton Copely always just feels like he's in his own movie.

[00:37:45] It feels like all the times compared to everybody else and I did feel like for this type of role, his energy was the right kind to bring to something like this, but there was no payoff to it and it didn't feel like it was necessary and it was to me in the end just more so distracting than anything unless you know and I don't want to, you know, save it.

[00:38:07] This is definitely happening and I don't want to like necessarily rely on this unless if there is more to be explored in a future installment perhaps.

[00:38:16] I would say that like the thing about the Charlton Copely thing for me was that it just I don't know why we had to cast Charlton Copely in that role.

[00:38:29] Like it could have been any Indian actor just as well.

[00:38:33] You know, except for like the one line he has about like finding the monkey in his mother Africa, which is just like we it's funny for very strange reasons.

[00:38:50] Yeah, well I do wonder Neil Blomkamp was going to direct the movie initially.

[00:38:57] So I wonder if like he cast Sharto and then when he dropped out that he just stuck around.

[00:39:03] I don't know, I'm speculating but that's an interesting connection.

[00:39:06] No, no, no.

[00:39:07] I mean, listen, Depp O'Tell and Sharto, I think if I remember correctly both were in Chappy to get.

[00:39:11] Yeah, they go back.

[00:39:12] This makes a lot of sense.

[00:39:14] Oh, I forgot about that.

[00:39:15] Well, what if we remember Chappy?

[00:39:21] An abomination of a movie.

[00:39:24] But I do also think that man, when I hear that this is supposed to be John Wick in Mumbai, which literally that's what this was like sold as to us.

[00:39:35] And the John Wick reference in the movie, how it you called that before.

[00:39:40] Here's where I have issues.

[00:39:44] I think calling such attention to it does not do this movie favors.

[00:39:50] I agree.

[00:39:51] I completely agree.

[00:39:52] When they made that reference, I was like, ah, no, I know that this is a John Wick type movie, but you don't kind of just like say it.

[00:40:00] Especially because, you know, and also to be clear too, it's not like John Wick, I think was always consistent either.

[00:40:09] I mean maybe consistent in terms of up in the ante with each subsequent installment to the point where John Wick chapter four has in my opinion rightfully been called like one of the great action movies of our time.

[00:40:20] But it took time to build up to something like that.

[00:40:22] Like this to me feels a lot more like the first John Wick in a lot of ways where it wasn't all balls out, but it had a personality and it was smaller in scale.

[00:40:34] And it had that relatable emotional story that you got invested in.

[00:40:39] And here we have a story of someone who loses his mother in a very horrific way at an early age.

[00:40:46] And then it ties into the grander social political context of India as a whole.

[00:40:51] And I do like this, like almost has almost a like an origin story of where this could lead to with a future installment.

[00:41:01] But we don't know if that's confirmed.

[00:41:03] We don't know if that's ever going to happen.

[00:41:05] You know, who knows?

[00:41:06] So listening to how Dev Patel has talked about this movie and kids journey specifically in the last act of this movie, which for me reminded me more of the raid films than anything else.

[00:41:21] And I actually liked that they never specifically called that out, but it was just there and you could see the references for yourself.

[00:41:28] He has said in interviews that that was an inspiration for us.

[00:41:31] Yeah. And it's clear.

[00:41:33] But like listening to him in interviews talk about the character, I think it is very clear that he is dead at the end of this movie and there will not be another installment.

[00:41:45] But you never know.

[00:41:48] Yeah, I was going to say listen just because, you know, in, you know, spoiler alert, I probably should put a disclaimer in the show notes about this.

[00:41:56] Just because your character falls out of frame, you know, cut the black.

[00:42:02] I don't know. I need more confirmation than that is all I'm saying.

[00:42:06] I'm okay if we don't franchise everything.

[00:42:09] Yeah, me too.

[00:42:11] I want this to be a great one off and I like that they leave it open ending that they could go either way with it.

[00:42:17] Sure. Sure.

[00:42:18] Fine.

[00:42:19] But yeah, I want to see what Dev Patel does next. That's not monkey man, you know, because I think he showcased to some real talent here.

[00:42:27] Not just as an action director though definitely that.

[00:42:31] But also as a writer and I think somebody who has even deeper stories on his mind.

[00:42:37] Not that action movies can't be deep, but I think I just I'm just more interested in something different from him.

[00:42:43] Can I tell you about one bit of criticism with the writing in this movie? Just something it's very specific, but it bothered me so much that I have to bring it up here.

[00:42:51] There is a moment in the movie where he leaves behind a backpack full of money for all the transgender women in the temple.

[00:43:00] And it has a note that he leaves behind for them as well like thank you for helping me find my purpose or I don't know something like that, right?

[00:43:07] I hated that was written in English.

[00:43:09] Hold on. That's not even that.

[00:43:11] It's that after the scene we don't see any communication or contact between him and this group.

[00:43:18] And then they are a part of the final act in a way that tells me, hold up.

[00:43:24] That means that after he did this act, he must have had communication with them and told them about this plan and they must have coordinated this and we're never it feels very odd then to have like this parting gift.

[00:43:38] Like why not deliver it in person? Why leave it and not be there? It was so odd to me.

[00:43:44] It was just like this is meant to be like a final goodbye, a parting gift if you will.

[00:43:48] And yet there's all this missing information in between about how are these people a part of this finale.

[00:43:55] Yeah, see I got the impression that it was a little bit of a surprise that they showed up for him at the end.

[00:44:03] I did not.

[00:44:04] That's too coordinated an attack Dan.

[00:44:07] On their part, but it's not very coordinated with him and what he's doing.

[00:44:13] And when they show up he doesn't like, haha, the cavalry as I expected.

[00:44:19] You know, it's not that I don't get that feeling from watching him.

[00:44:22] So that was just my impression of that.

[00:44:25] But you're right that that is a little fuzzy with the storytelling.

[00:44:31] Yeah, don't deny that, but I kind of don't care.

[00:44:37] I didn't like it so well.

[00:44:39] Yeah, another moment to their.

[00:44:42] What's her name in this movie? I'm going to I'm going to get this right.

[00:44:46] Sita.

[00:44:47] Oh yeah, she's incredible.

[00:44:49] Played by Sobita Dula Paula.

[00:44:52] Yeah, there's like one scene in the movie where kid goes into the alley and he's all worked up

[00:45:00] because he's getting ready to like take his revenge on this guy that killed his mother.

[00:45:05] And he so, so, so worked up.

[00:45:07] He ends up like ripping off his vest and everything.

[00:45:10] And then it just shows her also in the alley just having a smoke.

[00:45:13] And I just thought to myself never in a million years would I buy that this woman in this society would venture outside in the back alleyway like this.

[00:45:24] It just something about like something like that just rang false for me.

[00:45:28] And then they kind of tease that there is this connection between the two of them in the third act later, which I did, which I felt was completely shoehorned in and unearned.

[00:45:37] It just felt like there was more to explore there, but the film never quite delved into.

[00:45:43] Oh, I, I disagree on that last bit.

[00:45:46] I really liked that they didn't turn her into a full on romantic object for him.

[00:45:52] I'm not saying they had to do that.

[00:45:54] I really specifically love that they didn't do that.

[00:45:56] And I thought that like they were making really nice subtle connections between her and his mother.

[00:46:05] Hmm. Okay, now that's interesting because I didn't get that bit at all actually.

[00:46:09] She has the quail tattoo that he notices and that connects it back to his childhood and how he always used to see them everywhere.

[00:46:18] And like he sees when he gets so worked up, it's specifically because the cop that he's looking after is like feeling her up very aggressively.

[00:46:33] Yeah. Okay, I get that.

[00:46:34] Just like he did with his with his mother.

[00:46:36] I just I really liked that they did it because that made so much more sense to me given this character of kid and his trauma.

[00:46:45] It made so much more sense that he would see her as an extension of his mother than as, you know, this romantic object that he has to save to kiss.

[00:46:56] And I was so happy they didn't ever make any romantic overtones between the two of them.

[00:47:04] And you're expecting it?

[00:47:05] I completely agree about that part of it, but it's more so I wanted her to have more of a character itself.

[00:47:13] Sure. That yeah, I mean the movie is, I think extremely laser focused on kid and sometimes to its detriment.

[00:47:23] Yeah, although I like you Dan was like bracing myself for that to be just a full automatic interest.

[00:47:30] And I was very appreciative that it wasn't but it also does feel like then, you know, she's not that but then she's also not much more else either.

[00:47:39] Right.

[00:47:40] And and still at the end of the day kind of just a token for him to be motivated in his revenge plot and she's not really that well defined.

[00:47:52] And while I appreciate it didn't go into the the area that I thought it would and would have made it a worse character didn't really make her that much of a better character either.

[00:48:03] Now a positive I'll say.

[00:48:05] I thought that Seconder Kerr did an excellent job as Rana the police officer villain of this film.

[00:48:13] I really despised that guy and by the time they got to that final climactic fight between him and kid at the end of the film I was like man,

[00:48:23] they've done such a good job of making me want to see this guy get his ass whooped.

[00:48:29] I was really bought in in that moment maybe even more so.

[00:48:33] Yeah, I would say more so than the confrontation with Baba following that which I understand is the more like the larger story that this film is wanting to tell.

[00:48:46] I get that but for me it's like this movie peaked with that scene between him and Rana at the end in the club room.

[00:48:55] Another scene that is just like shot so well those hanging swiveling mirrors on everything got what just what a look.

[00:49:06] The production design of this movie is very strong.

[00:49:10] Yeah, I liked that look in that scene.

[00:49:13] I also really enjoyed that fight sequence although I don't know if I actually preferred it to the final confrontation with Baba.

[00:49:22] I think they're going for obviously different tones but towards the end of the fight scene with the police chief it does start to get a little bit more,

[00:49:32] maybe not dour but like more somber in terms of him like fully recognizing you know the weight of the moment that he's in and taking his revenge

[00:49:42] and it did kind of make the action then feel a little sluggish at that point whereas when we get the final confrontation with Baba it's all meant to be very somber

[00:49:52] and I liked that this villain didn't need to be bombastic.

[00:49:56] You know I like that presentation that of course it fits what that character is supposed to be.

[00:50:00] I kind of wish we even once again had more of him because I think that that character so fascinating in terms of his role where he's not even the politician running for office.

[00:50:11] He's just the religious figure who is controlling politics which is so fascinating and I love that idea and wish we could have even had more of it

[00:50:20] but I like the quiet confrontation that they have at the end.

[00:50:24] I really actually enjoyed that maybe even a little bit more than the fight scene with the police chief even though that is really well done too.

[00:50:33] Yeah I really love that scene with Baba at the end it's something that I think about a lot since the first time I saw the movie because it's

[00:50:43] that scene is where everything you know thematically comes home to rest finally and

[00:50:52] I was so taken with the overall tone of that scene and the kind of bystinous that Baba presents which I was frankly not expecting

[00:51:08] and that maybe it's on me because clearly this is a scrappy guy who you know is not let an opportunity pass him by but I was really captivated by what he was saying how the actor was saying it

[00:51:24] and just generally how that scene was shot it was very very striking and when that finally come you know my I thought God what I forget he actually says but basically like my right is here

[00:51:40] and I freaked out.

[00:51:42] My chariot has arrived.

[00:51:44] Yeah my chariot has arrived yeah oh God because you just know it's going to happen in that moment but what happens I think it's so good and turning this into a

[00:51:54] kind of eat the rich movie I think works greatly in its favor than he's just you know just going after some dude.

[00:52:05] Yeah no I definitely agree with that for sure as I'm thinking about the third act I do have another question to ask y'all or maybe it's not so much question I'll just say like as an

[00:52:16] observation I really wish they had done a better job of establishing that the women of the temple had some form of training and I say this because it does come out of nowhere for me in the

[00:52:32] third act that okay fine they're helping him but they're helping him in a way that displays that they've been trained and they can fight and there's literally nothing

[00:52:42] there's no scene or anything prior to this other than the training montage that they're not involved in might I add.

[00:52:49] But one of them does throw a couple punches at the bag.

[00:52:53] That is true I mean they have a punch in the head with.

[00:52:56] Tell me that all of a sudden makes them into such formidable fighters like that's what that was not enough for me I'm sorry I mean again I just didn't care.

[00:53:07] Way too much about this man.

[00:53:10] Yeah of all my issues with the movie that was just one section that I was able to just sort of kind of go with it you know it's like I think they give you like just enough the fact that there is an arena for training as Dan said that

[00:53:23] that one character comes up and gives a couple hard punches so you know that they're like in that world a little bit and yeah when we get to the end and we get those quick shots of just like the dresses on the car reflections

[00:53:35] and then they show up it's like it doesn't make that much sense sure the movie has bigger problems than that though like I at that point I was like fine I don't care I just want to see these trans women just go to town all these bad guys I'm good.

[00:53:49] Yeah I know I hear you I just kept thinking to myself like are we praising this because like because we're supposed to just praise it or is it actually earning the moment that's that's the thing that I was struggling with.

[00:54:04] I think it earns it it earns it on a character and thematic level maybe it doesn't earn it on a plot level but really at that point who cares.

[00:54:13] You know what I will agree with you on that point because I as I said in my opening thoughts.

[00:54:19] I think devs passion for this performance this character it really does come through like you can feel it in every scene even if it's not perfect even if it's not all gelling together for me it's still something where it's like man you're taking many swings and some are connecting

[00:54:40] and some are missing but man those swings look beautiful like you and you're just you know he's swinging for the fences this guy you know he really is.

[00:54:49] I admire that this movie is not low key in the slightest.

[00:54:53] No it is big swings and I think because of that there also some just like.

[00:55:00] He makes some big choices I think with the directing that oftentimes feel just like directly out of the first time directors handbook.

[00:55:10] Sure you know like like Josh was talking about earlier like some of these shots that are just like handed angles like just for the sake of being a candid angle and the especially I think the way he handles the flashbacks with like you know the sort of slow motion versus you know really fast

[00:55:28] cuts of obscured things and those to me felt very sort of like okay this is how we shoot flashbacks when we don't know what else to do okay I get it.

[00:55:39] I don't disagree but some of the candid angles like worked really interestingly yeah like there's that shot when they're going to get that Nicki Minaj get to get that the tiny car and they're walking through this you know slanted road and the cameras tilted the opposite direction.

[00:55:56] It creates a really interesting tracking effect as they're moving across so I don't know I think the imagery overall really worked for me.

[00:56:04] I don't disagree about the flashbacks feeling very much like flashbacks you know kind of standard flashback fare, but overall I appreciate it.

[00:56:15] It's what you said Matt like he's taking big swings and yeah I don't think there's a there's a moment of the movie that really is playing it safe whether they all work perfectly or not is a different story.

[00:56:28] I think your enjoyment of this movie is going to be predicated on how much you admire respect and like Dev Patel.

[00:56:40] I think that that's really what it comes down to because I can understand like forgiving a lot here because you know you hear stories about how this film was made and you see what's up on the final screen and you know we have this

[00:56:53] movement in this guy that we've been watching since he was a teenager on screen and I just think that that goes a long long way here towards me not being even though I'm citing a lot of criticisms here like I'm not going to be as harsh

[00:57:06] in my overall feelings towards this movie especially when I consider the fact that Jeff Patel could have just made a small scale indie drama.

[00:57:14] He could have made a horror movie with a lower budget he could have done a lot of different things here but he decided to make this absolutely kinetic balls to the wall hyper violent my god some of the violence in this

[00:57:29] movie just like this film to me is like a swing that I on a personal level admire and I love seeing it backed by a studio I love seeing Jordan Peele back it personally as well a man with his clout so you know this is the kind of risks that you

[00:57:47] want to see people taking in this industry.

[00:57:50] Why do you think Netflix dropped it and I haven't heard any I haven't read any interviews or anything to so maybe there's more specific insight out there but I haven't seen it.

[00:57:59] I don't understand their their logic of dropping it because it's obviously great.

[00:58:04] Did they drop it or did Universal just come around with Jordan Peele and say hey listen we want this what's your asking price.

[00:58:11] It's a whole thing and I think it's very complicated.

[00:58:14] I don't think it's just the Netflix thing because they also like lost funding during it and I know there was a background bankruptcy thing with Braun.

[00:58:23] Yeah.

[00:58:24] Yeah.

[00:58:25] So I don't know if like it was that and once it lost funding from Braun Netflix like wouldn't Tony up the money to produce it themselves.

[00:58:33] I don't know but that's I know that that was part of it too so it's a little complicated.

[00:58:39] God I didn't realize like it was more complicated than just dropping a movie.

[00:58:44] Yeah I mean the thing that I will say is that Dev Patel at the premiere he did say specifically that like Jordan Peele came in and saved the movie.

[00:58:53] So what it sounded like to me was that after the Braun thing they had no money it was not going to happen.

[00:59:03] And Jordan Peele came in got the money with Monkey Paw and then got Universal involved.

[00:59:09] That's what I've been sort of being able to put piece together but I'm not 100% sure that that's correct.

[00:59:16] Yeah it sounds like from what I heard Netflix was quietly shopping it around hoping that somebody would pick it up but if they never did they were going to just release it you know with little fanfare

[00:59:30] and then along comes like you said Peele with Monkey Paw and the rest is history.

[00:59:35] Which like I said good for Jordan Peele for putting his money where his mouth is and you know helping a filmmaker like Dev Patel you know get this platform in this kind of backing.

[00:59:47] I think you know Peele just being associated with it goes a very very long way towards you know generating excitement.

[00:59:54] I remember it feels like back in the day when Tarantino would attach his name to something like Hero for example and then all of a sudden it just made everybody want to watch Hero even though he didn't write it or direct it or anything like that you know.

[01:00:08] Yeah very much that very much that.

[01:00:11] Yeah alright so final thoughts here on Monkey Man we can go over to Dingle Howit first for this one.

[01:00:18] Howit do you have anything else you want to say something you want to reiterate.

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[01:01:17] Not tons. I in the vein of not loving the ways that Monkey Man almost cozies up to John Wick in ways that I wish it didn't.

[01:01:26] I didn't love the dog sequence you know it just again.

[01:01:30] Okay I love the dog sequence come on.

[01:01:34] I did not love it until it was revealed that that's how he was going to get the gun into the restaurant.

[01:01:41] That was clever I thought.

[01:01:42] It's cute for sure.

[01:01:44] It's the John Wick of it all that it just felt like again it's doing something totally different than John Wick so it does feel unfair to keep comparing it but like dogs are so integral to the John Wick movies that it's like okay we're doing this again.

[01:01:59] So that was the only thing is calling it out at the beginning by name and then having this dog sequence I was like alright okay let's do something different here but obviously that didn't really determine too much.

[01:02:11] But no I you know like I said I'm a big fan of this movie.

[01:02:16] I don't want a Monkey Man to I mean I think it would be fine but that's just that's like the least interesting step that Dev Patel could take in his career in my opinion.

[01:02:27] I think doing almost anything else I want to see what other sorts of movies isn't like like you were saying Matt isn't a tiny horror movie isn't in the drama is there a frickin romcom like what what what else is in Dev Patel's back pocket because

[01:02:40] he shows so much promise here yes with action sequences but also just in some of the smaller moments too so I'm all in on Dev Patel as director and yeah I'm excited to see what comes next.

[01:02:53] By the way I'm just reading a little thing here that I just found online apparently they lost their original DP during shooting and along with it cameras that were needed to film certain sequences so many shots in this movie were

[01:03:09] achieved on iPhone cameras and go pros which led to I guess some of these moments that we've been alluding to where we felt like you know there's a frame rate change and why all of a sudden is there shaky handheld all over the place

[01:03:24] and why does this not look as cinematic and it's more gritty and dark and etc etc so it's like it really does feel like in the making of this Dev Patel was just fighting for his life literally just to make this frickin thing.

[01:03:39] Well and he also like broke his hand on the first day of shooting so had to like redo all those fight sequences that came after with one broken hand.

[01:03:50] I did notice that in the choreography at times like and then maybe that's when I met earlier when I said it does feel like the choreography is staged where it's allowing for an extra beat for like Patel to hit his mark and I think that has to do with the fact that he's limited in his use of both of his hands so that would make a lot of sense.

[01:04:08] Josh what about you any final thoughts here.

[01:04:10] I think the only other thing that I would say is you know as much as we have been talking about Dev Patel skills as a director and the promise that shows and maybe what we liked and didn't like.

[01:04:22] I would also say that his performance is also still really good too I think that he captures that physicality very well but when he also has to showcase that that stronger emotional side to him I really liked that too and yes it is not going to be noted as one of his best

[01:04:40] performances but I think for this type of movie it was a really nice anchor to the film and I really liked the screen presence that he brought so just to give like a proper shout out to his actual performance.

[01:04:51] I thought he was pretty solid in it.

[01:04:53] Yeah yeah I agree it may not be his overall best work but it's up there especially considering how different it is anything else that we've seen him do before.

[01:05:03] Alright Dan Bear what about you final thoughts.

[01:05:06] There's a lot of lines of dialogue in the is particularly in the second half of this movie that are like very on the nose but I kind of loved them anyway like when.

[01:05:22] Alvar Alvar I forget how what exactly her name is but.

[01:05:27] When he says like you need to destroy in order to create and before he gives them the psycho drug like the ayahuasca thing for his vision quest.

[01:05:39] He says the pain will leave you once it's finished teaching you which like is such a like kind of eye rolling line when you look at on the page but in context it works so well.

[01:05:52] And I just really love that really appreciate the believability that the actor is really granted to a lot of this dialogue and also the I guess just the overall sort of like.

[01:06:04] The embrace of mysticism in this like it's all based on the legend of honeymoon and that is you know I clearly a big part of this story but overall there is this embrace of mysticism and not exactly magical realism but this sort of air of.

[01:06:29] A higher religious or spiritual plane that we're getting at some points in this that I thought helps to give it to give it a more of a distinctive unique.

[01:06:42] Feel and also for me like helped me enjoy the storytelling more.

[01:06:49] Yeah you really get a sense of that too with the brief flashbacks between him and his mother which helped a lot too.

[01:06:56] Yeah and also I want to shout out the there is that one set in the temple where he spends a lot of that second act with the tree roots and all those candles.

[01:07:12] Yeah it's just really really beautiful a beautiful piece of production design and I love how they use the candlelight and that sequence is again to shot really really well there's a lot of really beautiful looking shots in this movie that I really loved.

[01:07:30] Okay so from my final thoughts a couple of different things here was anybody else kind of pulled out of the movie on V I don't even know what you would call it but I'll just say it's a music cue moment that sounds a lot like the top gun soundtrack.

[01:07:47] Do you guys know what I'm talking about it's like the tongue.

[01:07:50] Okay I don't know that specifically but yeah I did have a thought of top gun that was like in my mind in relationship to this movie but I couldn't remember that was imagined or not so yeah I didn't pull me out but it definitely rang a bell you know literally for sure.

[01:08:09] Yeah it's the sound.

[01:08:11] Yeah yeah that dong sound.

[01:08:12] Yeah I know what you're talking about I can hear it in my head.

[01:08:16] I do not remember hearing it in this movie but I will say like the the needle drops in this movie and how well the action sequences are edited to them a plus.

[01:08:31] The kill bill reference to all the goons coming into the club through the elevator at the end reminded me of the crazy 88 so much.

[01:08:39] I think it was directly a reference to that it had to be.

[01:08:44] It felt like it.

[01:08:46] Yeah it is there's yeah it's definitely like specifically recreating the shots when they enter the House of Blue Leaves.

[01:08:53] The one on one fight scenes in the in the ring when he had that one where like the gigantic seven foot tall guy comes in and some of the POV shots and I just love the filmmaking and those sequences.

[01:09:13] I almost kind of wish that the monkey mask featured a little bit more prominently in the third act to kind of create almost this like mysticism about him.

[01:09:26] I'm not saying he had to go full on Batman OK I'm not saying that because at a certain point you do want to see Dev Patel's face right for the emotion of it all but he ditches it like in the alleyway right before the third act is supposed to begin as he's walking up to those two guys and I was like man what'd be kind of cool if he like kept a mask.

[01:09:42] Just for a little bit then lost it like somewhere in the beginning of the climactic fight.

[01:09:48] I don't know just to kind of like see like how others would react to it and such I don't know.

[01:09:53] What was the point.

[01:09:55] It was so kind of weird they had to like this build up moment of him wearing the mask too and then he walks up to two guys right outside and then just takes the mask off.

[01:10:05] What did you put the mask on for in the first place.

[01:10:07] Exactly which like and as you were saying that I'm at I was like well duh like he can't stand it.

[01:10:12] I don't see enough throughout that mask but then he's perfectly well in the wrestling ring.

[01:10:17] Right exactly then I realized like well he does actually do pretty well on the wrestling ring so I don't know.

[01:10:22] Yeah exactly.

[01:10:24] I think it's something that should have featured a little bit more prominently in that third act you could have ditched it at a certain point.

[01:10:30] Don't get me wrong but yeah it felt like a trailer shot honestly.

[01:10:33] Maybe maybe.

[01:10:38] Maybe like all of our criticisms of this movie are very easily answered by Dev Patel just directly saying to us hey man look this would happen behind the scenes and this is how we had to work around it you know like I would not be surprised if that was the answer to everything here.

[01:10:55] But for what we got I have to admit I really did enjoy it.

[01:11:00] I really really did and I went back and forth here between two grades initially I was a 7 out of 10 on my second viewing I felt like I was an 8 out of 10 now as I'm talking about it here if you guys I feel like I'm still between the two but I'm going to give it the benefit of the doubt because even despite my criticisms I very much enjoyed this like yes I really enjoyed this.

[01:11:24] I felt pulled out of the movie at times yes I have a lot of questions about certain choices that are made throughout but at the same time when it lands it really really lands it hits hard and I enjoyed it so I'm going to give it the benefit of the doubt and I'm going to go with a week but recommended 8 out of 10 how it what about you.

[01:11:47] Yeah I'm the exact same way I think I think I've only seen one time so I don't know what a second viewing would do but I'm also a week 8 out of 10 I really enjoyed the film and there's nobody I wouldn't recommend it to unless you just don't like brutal action movies like I think I think it's a super enjoyable film so yeah I have to land on 8 out of 10.

[01:12:10] Yeah I actually had a moment the other day with this how it where I recommended it to a friend and she texts me after she saw it and she's like I like the movie you didn't tell me was going to be that violent.

[01:12:21] Sorry.

[01:12:24] Acts to the face.

[01:12:25] I don't know.

[01:12:28] Dan what about you.

[01:12:30] Look I was an 8 out of 10 at South by I have since seen it again and I came down on it a little bit but overall I'm still in 8 out of 10.

[01:12:42] I just think that the things that it does well it does so well I'm so impressed by it that even the issues that were brought up today that I didn't really have the time but I can see them.

[01:12:56] They're not enough to take away from just the overall experience of watching it and how much how much fun I had with it and how much I felt emotionally moved by it so I'm still I'm still in 8 out of 10.

[01:13:11] Josh.

[01:13:12] So I'm going to be a little bit harsher on the movie.

[01:13:15] I'm actually going to land at a 6 out of 10 for it.

[01:13:19] I still found myself being entertained by a good deal of it but I do think that the problems that I have with this material I just think maybe bother me a little bit more.

[01:13:30] I did find myself struggling a lot with that first act and I do think that not all of Dev Patel's decisions with the filmmaking worked for me and even if I take into account that some of that might just be behind the scenes drama he had to deal with.

[01:13:44] I still feel like not all of his filmmaking decisions got me invested in the overall story and when it worked it does work but I've just found it to be a little bit too inconsistent for me to be like fully recommending it.

[01:13:59] I still mean positive with it and I still found myself being entertained for the most part but I think the movie just had too many issues for me to like really really say that I like unequivocally loved it.

[01:14:11] Now an extra two points for the shirtless scenes right?

[01:14:14] Well yes I mean that was the greatest moment ever in the history of cinema right there.

[01:14:19] I mean wouldn't they cut to the women in the temple being like oh I was like that's Josh right there.

[01:14:25] That is the whole audience frankly like come on.

[01:14:34] As far as awards potential for this movie I could see when we get to end of year maybe a few critics groups being kind to this the way they were with like Michael B. Jordan when he made Creed 3 last year but I really can't see this getting a DGA nomination or going really anywhere near any conversation honestly with regards to its crafts.

[01:14:58] Maybe there's a world where it gets a SAG stunt ensemble nomination but that's the end of it I think.

[01:15:05] Yeah I would say there's like a slim chance that the DGA first time feature director could get a nomination but given like the time of year that it's released and the fact that I just don't think this is going to be have an awards campaign in general I'd be skeptical.

[01:15:27] I agree I don't think this is going really anywhere and as you said maybe a couple mentions for baby director here or there but this doesn't really feel like the type of movie that even DGA goes for all that often so I would be either surprised if he did show up there for that and I don't really think this is going to do much.

[01:15:48] This feels very much like it's an action movie let's make some money for that and you know that'll be the end of it.

[01:15:54] Alright well that'll do it here for our review of Monkey Man here on the Next Best Picture podcast and it will how it tell everyone that's listening where they can find you on the internet.

[01:16:02] You can find me on Twitter at HowitDK Dan Bear.

[01:16:07] You can find me on Twitter at Dance and Dan on film on LetterboxedandPost at Dance and Dan.

[01:16:12] And Josh Parham.

[01:16:14] You can find me on Twitter at LetterboxedatJRParham.

[01:16:17] And you can find me on Next Best Picture.

[01:16:19] Thank you so much everyone for listening to the Next Best Picture podcast.

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