Interview With "The Fall Of The House Of Usher" Actress Carla Gugino

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[00:01:01] in.

[00:01:02] We took it all.

[00:01:09] We brought them to this night, amber hot and icy cold.

[00:01:17] The rage of the earth.

[00:01:19] We made this curse.

[00:01:20] Carved it in the blood on our backs.

[00:01:24] We did not see.

[00:01:26] We could not, but she did.

[00:01:27] And in the end...

[00:01:28] What will I become?

[00:01:29] Senua's Saga, Hellblade 2.

[00:01:34] Play it now with Game Pass.

[00:01:36] You are listening to the Next Best Picture podcast and this is Cody Derrick's interview

[00:01:41] with the star from the Netflix show The Fall of the House of Usher, Carla Cugino.

[00:01:46] It's time.

[00:01:47] It's time.

[00:01:48] It's time.

[00:01:49] Your honor, no matter how much evidence stacked against them, the Usher crime family stands

[00:02:05] stronger and darker than ever before.

[00:02:09] Anyone comes after us, we will exhaust our arsenal until the threat's neutralized.

[00:02:14] By neutralized do you mean sued into oblivion on the streets?

[00:02:18] Neutralized.

[00:02:19] Like dead.

[00:02:20] Do you guys, we really should get together more often.

[00:02:22] It's just a balm for the soul.

[00:02:23] Hello, this is Cody Derrick with Next Best Picture and I am thrilled to be talking to

[00:02:28] one of the stars of Netflix's The Fall of the House of Usher, Carla Cugino.

[00:02:33] Carla, thank you so much for joining me today.

[00:02:36] Oh, I'm so happy to be here.

[00:02:37] Thank you for having me.

[00:02:38] Of course, literally anytime.

[00:02:42] So just to get started in the show, which I gotta say, I loved.

[00:02:46] I'm here for anything Mike Flanagan does.

[00:02:48] This was no exception.

[00:02:49] He can make a new show every fall and I will watch it.

[00:02:52] No, I'm not alone.

[00:02:55] But in this specific show, you play Verna, who is a mysterious shape-shifting woman

[00:03:00] who haunts the titular Usher family.

[00:03:03] And the amazing thing about this role is that it gives you the chance to play a whole bunch

[00:03:07] of different character types as she morphs into different people to work, to lure her

[00:03:12] victims in.

[00:03:13] And I just want to start by broadly asking what it's just like playing so many different

[00:03:17] characters.

[00:03:18] It was really such an interesting challenge and such an exciting one.

[00:03:22] I think having done this for most of my life, I continue to look for things that I've never

[00:03:27] had the opportunity to do before.

[00:03:29] And it's one of the things that I love about working with Mike Flanagan is that he really

[00:03:33] believes in the transformational nature of actors.

[00:03:36] And so for, certainly for myself, I can speak personally that he's given me opportunities

[00:03:41] each time to do something that I haven't gotten to do before.

[00:03:45] And he's done that so beautifully with so many actors.

[00:03:47] And so that's a thrilling start.

[00:03:50] But it was as I, he was giving me the scripts in real time and I kept sort of seeing as

[00:03:55] these different incarnations of Verna were being revealed.

[00:03:59] And initially I was just so, I was so taken in by the story and it was like a television

[00:04:04] show that you can't binge.

[00:04:05] So I just have to wait till the next script was ready and the next script was ready.

[00:04:09] And then it hit me at one point, oh right, but I have to pull this off.

[00:04:14] The bar is very high.

[00:04:16] And so it really ended up coming down to starting to break down the script in just a very technical

[00:04:21] way initially, which was that there always had to be this sort of golden thread of Verna,

[00:04:25] the hand of fate, the Raven, you know, the sort of executor of karma.

[00:04:30] But then that each one of these incarnations, because she ends up showing up, as you said,

[00:04:35] to each of the family members in this and sort of giving them the opportunity to have maybe

[00:04:39] the most honest conversation of their lives before she's going to take them, before they're

[00:04:43] going to die.

[00:04:45] And whether they make a different decision, which most people unfortunately don't, they

[00:04:51] at least will be able to come face to face with the reality of their lives and maybe

[00:04:55] have a better afterlife, or at least be able to sort of have an honest moment of recognition

[00:05:00] of themselves.

[00:05:00] And it became very clear to me that each one of those incarnations had to be real people,

[00:05:06] had to be deeply human and complex.

[00:05:09] Because again, Mike always wants to go deeper with his storytelling.

[00:05:15] And so a lot of those people actually represent important things like the woman who has to

[00:05:19] get a heart transplant and can't trust anybody in the medical system is so flawed and all

[00:05:23] of those things.

[00:05:24] So if I were to have played that in a way that was sort of a wink, wink kind of thing,

[00:05:28] it would lose the potency of what that actually was.

[00:05:31] So it was about finding the making sure that those characters were deeply human since Verna

[00:05:37] herself is not.

[00:05:39] And then finding the different ways in which they speak and different centers of gravity

[00:05:44] in their body, because oftentimes we were having to do a couple on the same day.

[00:05:48] And so I needed to be able to switch really quickly.

[00:05:50] So did you develop some sort of shorthand with yourself to be able to differentiate

[00:05:54] between these characters?

[00:05:55] Because they're so wildly different, even like you said, similar episodes.

[00:06:00] Yeah, I did.

[00:06:01] I did.

[00:06:01] It was very helpful for me to I recorded the dialects and I would have, as I said, sort

[00:06:08] of a very quick exercise for dropping into where that person might be coming from body

[00:06:13] body center wise.

[00:06:14] And also, it really was helpful.

[00:06:17] The hair and makeup and wardrobe, because they were such wonderful collaborators in

[00:06:23] all of those departments that the second I was able to change physically and see myself

[00:06:27] as that, it's very helpful.

[00:06:29] You said you have a sort of drop in process for each character.

[00:06:33] Is that something you can elaborate on or is that personal?

[00:06:36] Well, no, I mean, you know, I think with this in this particular case, I also had the pleasure

[00:06:42] of working with Terry Notary, who's an amazing movement coach, designed all the apes in Planet

[00:06:47] of the Apes.

[00:06:48] And he's he's amongst many other things.

[00:06:51] But that was really, you know, oftentimes I work from the inside out and sort of where

[00:06:56] the emotional center is of a character.

[00:06:58] And in this case, I started working with him.

[00:07:01] What Mike had suggested him for the work with the Raven body language wise, the cat, the

[00:07:08] chimp, obviously, really, he ended up being such a collaborator.

[00:07:12] On all of the characters, because I ended up finding them sort of physically at the

[00:07:19] same time as what was going on internally.

[00:07:21] I guess I could say an example, again, maybe the example of the person who needed the

[00:07:26] heart transplant.

[00:07:27] One thing that had been written in was that she really had a hard time catching her breath.

[00:07:31] And so I wanted her register to be living in a slightly different or vocal register place.

[00:07:35] But we were able to also find certain physicality that was very helpful for that or Verna herself.

[00:07:41] I really wanted in her most kind of human incarnation, the incarnation of being human

[00:07:45] that's the closest to her, which is the sort of when she's, you know, towards the end

[00:07:48] episodes.

[00:07:48] And when we see her in her black Raven like outfits, I really wanted it to feel like she

[00:07:53] was like smoke coming in and out of a room.

[00:07:56] She doesn't really move in like a person.

[00:07:58] So those were all of the you know, I always make playlists.

[00:08:02] This one was a songs and stuff.

[00:08:03] This one was harder to do that with because there were so many different versions of her.

[00:08:08] And then also Poe is such a great resource, you know, because I obviously was reading

[00:08:12] a lot of Poe.

[00:08:13] I had the great pleasure of being able to recite Poe.

[00:08:16] When do you ever get to do that in a big Netflix horror show?

[00:08:19] You know, they don't let you do that usually.

[00:08:21] So that was also sort of trying to keep the poetry in mind as we were filming was important

[00:08:28] because Poe was so ahead of his time.

[00:08:30] And it was even interesting as I was trying to figure out initially sort of what Verna

[00:08:34] was.

[00:08:34] I know that when before the show came out, a lot of people were saying, you know, is

[00:08:38] Carla Gugino playing a demon?

[00:08:39] And ultimately she's not that at all.

[00:08:41] I mean, she really is the hand of fate.

[00:08:43] But in conversations that I was having with Mike, it was interesting because Poe didn't

[00:08:47] really believe in sort of heaven or hell in that certain kind of way.

[00:08:51] But he did believe in accountability, did believe in obviously he explores guilt and

[00:08:57] consequence a lot in a lot of his pieces.

[00:08:59] So those were more of the things that I was interested in exploring.

[00:09:04] To be clear, I am here for you whenever you decide to play a demon.

[00:09:07] So I haven't done that yet.

[00:09:10] So, you know, there's this.

[00:09:11] Yes, let's get that done.

[00:09:13] We took it all.

[00:09:15] We brought them to our land.

[00:09:18] An endless night, ember hot and icy cold.

[00:09:23] The rage of the earth.

[00:09:25] We made this curse.

[00:09:28] Carved it in the blood on our backs.

[00:09:31] We did not see.

[00:09:32] We could not, but she did.

[00:09:35] And in the end, what will I become?

[00:09:37] Senua's Saga.

[00:09:39] Hellblade II.

[00:09:40] Play it now with Game Pass.

[00:09:42] So Mike Flanagan, this isn't your first project with him.

[00:09:46] You worked on Gerald's game, which you're absolutely incredible in.

[00:09:49] You worked on Haunting of Hill House and Bly Manor.

[00:09:53] And he seemed to have a habit of bringing back actors for projects over and over again.

[00:09:57] Can you tell me what it's like working with him and being part of his troupe?

[00:10:01] Yeah, well, I think he gravitates towards.

[00:10:05] He obviously has impeccable casting taste.

[00:10:08] And I don't mean that about me, but just about all of my amazing actors that I've gotten to

[00:10:12] work with.

[00:10:13] Kate Segal is fantastic and so much fun to work with.

[00:10:16] And it was so kind of cool because in, you know, in Gerald's game, she played my mother

[00:10:21] and the Haunting of Hill House, I played hers, you know, where there's sort of all of these

[00:10:25] wonderful.

[00:10:26] And then obviously in Usher, that chimp sequence was, boy, did I need a partner in crime on

[00:10:31] that one because that was just such a crazy sort of endeavor.

[00:10:35] And I remember just thinking, boy, Mike seems to put me in positions where, because I remember

[00:10:40] as I'm saying this out loud, that I felt this way with Gerald's game too, where there's

[00:10:42] nowhere to hide and you basically can't be subtle.

[00:10:46] Like you can be subtle in different instances, but not in when you're chained to a bed and

[00:10:50] not when you are, you know, playing a chimpanzee.

[00:10:53] So in those things, in those instances, you just have to absolutely trust the filmmaker,

[00:10:57] which thankfully I do, but also your scene partner.

[00:10:59] And so that was great to be able to do with Kate.

[00:11:01] Bruce Greenwood and I obviously also have gotten to collaborate now a couple of times.

[00:11:06] Henry Thomas, I mean, the list goes on.

[00:11:09] It really is.

[00:11:09] I feel so blessed to work with these actors.

[00:11:12] And I think he hires people who are innate storytellers and who are fearless.

[00:11:17] There's not a single actor that I know that isn't willing to try anything.

[00:11:21] And that therefore I think produces something really unique because you're not so often if

[00:11:25] you're in a case where you aren't trusting the filmmaker, you know, I'm adept at directing

[00:11:30] myself.

[00:11:30] I can do it.

[00:11:31] I can have that third eye on myself, but it's not as fun and it's hard to sort of transcend

[00:11:37] in that way.

[00:11:38] So I think that's one of the, Mike has a very strong sense of what he wants.

[00:11:43] He has a really strong vision.

[00:11:45] He obviously writes, directs and edits.

[00:11:47] So he has control over the whole process.

[00:11:50] And I think in this day and age, that's so key because especially as an actor, you come

[00:11:56] into something and you basically give it all and they will do with it what they will.

[00:12:00] And in this case, I know that he will take care of us and that I can try things that

[00:12:07] might be like I can go too far.

[00:12:09] I can try different things that give him all the choices that he needs.

[00:12:13] And I know that he'll sort of pick the right ones.

[00:12:15] So movies are made by committee and television is made by committee so much now.

[00:12:19] And by testing things and by algorithms and by, you know, and all of these things.

[00:12:24] And the truth of the matter is that still a single person's vision coming to the screen

[00:12:30] to me is always the one that speaks to me as an audience as well.

[00:12:34] Something else he's become known for besides working with wonderful actors over and over

[00:12:38] again is these long monologues.

[00:12:40] And I feel like every time he gets a new miniseries, he kind of tests how much longer audiences

[00:12:46] will pay attention.

[00:12:47] But I mean, they're extremely enrapturing.

[00:12:50] And can you talk about what it's like to approach those long written pieces of text as an actor?

[00:12:55] Yeah, yeah.

[00:12:56] The flannel logs, as he likes to call them.

[00:12:59] Yeah, well, it's for me initially daunting because they are weighty and lengthy.

[00:13:07] But also the thing that you realize as an actor is that if you have something that's poorly

[00:13:11] written, it could be three sentences and you cannot remember it.

[00:13:14] You have to work so hard to memorize the material.

[00:13:17] If it's well written, there's some part of you that just clicks in and learns it.

[00:13:21] And that is the case with his writing.

[00:13:23] So I think the key that I've learned for myself with those is to stay extremely present and

[00:13:31] continue to keep discovering throughout them.

[00:13:34] And so this is obviously very unique to each actor.

[00:13:38] But for me, it's learning it so that I know it backwards, forwards, so that in the moment,

[00:13:43] it's never about the memorization or trying to remember, but it's about being able to

[00:13:49] live in it.

[00:13:50] I think that theater has really helped me with that because in theater, you have much

[00:13:53] more rehearsal time.

[00:13:55] But by the time usually you're on stage performing in front of an audience, it's muscle memory

[00:14:00] and it's in your body.

[00:14:01] And you don't really get that very often with film.

[00:14:04] Film to me is like capturing lightning in a bottle.

[00:14:06] You just need to get it once.

[00:14:08] But if you get it that once, that's the take you're going to go with.

[00:14:12] Theater is about exploring the same thing, usually eight shows a week, but rediscovering

[00:14:17] at each moment as if you've never done it before.

[00:14:19] And so I find the monologues that he writes to be a little bit like that, which is the

[00:14:23] more time I can get with them before, the better, so that I can just live and let them

[00:14:28] kind of speak through me for themselves.

[00:14:30] And also, every writer has a different musicality.

[00:14:34] And I think the more you get to work with the same person, you get to understand their

[00:14:38] musicality and you get to sort of, you know, I felt very much that way with Sebastian Gutierrez,

[00:14:43] who I've obviously collaborated with many times as well.

[00:14:46] You start to understand the musicality of people's writing and be able to kind of serve

[00:14:50] that better.

[00:14:51] Unfortunately, we're approaching the end of our time here.

[00:14:54] But before I let you go, as a horror fan, you've worked in a wide variety of genres.

[00:14:59] I first saw you in Spy Kids, a formative part of my childhood.

[00:15:04] Can you tell me what it is about horror that you love working in?

[00:15:08] Well, you know, this is interesting because I think that one sort of secret, maybe it's

[00:15:14] not a secret, but I think good actors know that horror really can offer something very

[00:15:21] unique as a genre, which is as long as you deliver on scares and mystery and all of this

[00:15:28] very... there's a couple of things you have to deliver on, then you can be as smart as

[00:15:32] you want.

[00:15:32] And what I love about Mike Flanagan's version of horror is that it is always has something

[00:15:38] much larger to say.

[00:15:39] I think that usually you can tell the truth in genre, oftentimes more so than you can

[00:15:44] in naturalistic drama.

[00:15:46] And so in this way, you know, it really does allow for the exploration of very large and

[00:15:53] important themes like retribution, accountability, grief, healing.

[00:16:00] The Haunting of Hill House, I think the end of that show is such an unusual end because

[00:16:03] it ends with this sense of hope.

[00:16:06] And that's so rare for horror.

[00:16:08] So to me, you know, there's something about... it's not even like I was a big horror fan

[00:16:13] per se.

[00:16:14] It's just that the first time that I met with Mike for Gerald's Game, I thought, this

[00:16:17] is a filmmaker I want to help tell the story.

[00:16:20] And that's his genre, that's a genre that he really connects to.

[00:16:23] And so now I have a great appreciation of horror.

[00:16:26] And, you know, I mean, The Shining was one of my favorite movies of all time.

[00:16:30] That too.

[00:16:30] But yeah, I think there's an opportunity to really have great characters in horror.

[00:16:35] Couldn't agree more.

[00:16:36] Couldn't have said it better myself.

[00:16:37] Carla Gugino, thank you so much for being here with me today and congrats on another

[00:16:41] excellent performance in The Fall of the House of Usher.

[00:16:44] I'm so excited to see what you do next, especially hopefully with Mike Flanagan again.

[00:16:48] Thank you so much.

[00:16:49] So great to talk with you.

[00:16:50] Have a beautiful day.

[00:16:51] Hey everyone, thank you so much for listening to Next Best Picture podcast.

[00:17:03] The Fall of the House of Usher is up for your consideration in all eligible categories

[00:17:08] for this year's Emmy Awards, including Carla Gugino for Best Actress.

[00:17:13] You have been listening to the Next Best Picture podcast.

[00:17:16] We are proud to be part of the American Podcast Network and you can subscribe to us anywhere

[00:17:20] where you subscribe to podcasts.

[00:17:22] Be sure to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and let us know what you think of the show.

[00:17:25] We really appreciate your feedback and your support, which you can also lend on over at

[00:17:30] Patreon for a $1 minimum a month, you'll get some exclusive podcast content from us.

[00:17:35] Thank you all so much for listening as always and we will see you all next time.

[00:18:26] History is complicated.

[00:18:28] The story of human progress is long, messy, and riddled with controversies big and small.

[00:18:34] On Conflicted, we dive headfirst into history's most infamous events and contentious figures.

[00:18:41] We try and untangle the good from the bad, the facts from the fiction,

[00:18:45] and the monsters from the misunderstood.

[00:18:48] Was Genghis Khan a murderous butcher or a civic pioneer?

[00:18:53] Did the Allied Powers go too far in firebombing the German city of Dresden at the twilight of

[00:18:58] World War II?

[00:19:00] And how did the Marquis de Sade acquire such a sinister reputation?

[00:19:05] And was any of it true?

[00:19:07] These are just a few of the tough questions we wrestle with and investigate on Conflicted.

[00:19:13] So if you love history or just enjoy a good story,

[00:19:16] please join me, your host Zach Cornwell, for a fascinating new topic each and every month.

[00:19:22] Conflicted, a history podcast is available on Spotify,

[00:19:26] Apple, or wherever else you get your podcasts.

[00:19:29] I hope to see you soon.