Toxic vs Cocktail 2: Yash, Shahid & the Female Gaze

[00:00:15] Hi, this is Asim Burney. This is Sujoy. This is Amrita. And you're listening to Khandaan- A Bollywood Podcast Podcast about the three main Khans of the Hindi film industry. Aamir, Salman, and Shahrukh. Hi, you're listening to Khandaan, a Bollywood Podcast regular feed. Thank you so much for your support over the years. We now have a Patreon channel with bonus content and exclusive merch for those of you who would like to support us. Every dollar goes towards creating more

[00:00:41] and better content. Visit us at patreon.com slash khandanpodcast. Hi, and welcome to a new episode of Khandaan Podcast. My name is Asim Burney and I'm joined with my lovely co-host. We are back. All of us are together. People missed it. We missed it. Woohoo! Hello. It feels like forever. It feels like forever, doesn't it? It does. It does. Everybody's good. Everybody's excited. Everybody's happy we're back.

[00:01:11] Yes. Everybody's a little bit sleepy, but apart from that, yes. Today, Amrita is late. I wanted to mention that. Oh my God, he waited for the recording to start. Sneaky, sneaky. Ah, Sujoy has been waiting. I was waiting to call out. Sujoy has been waiting for his chance for years at this point. Now I get why you were ragged at school, man.

[00:01:42] How I get it? It was your fault. Wow. Victim blaming her. Sujoy got his one chance and he's getting ragged for it. Yeah. How the turntables. But can I just say, I think one of the problems was that Amrita was dead because she had biryani. And I immediately understood that problem

[00:02:09] because at our age, digestion is a whole thing, right? Like I watched, I had pasta before I went to watch Toxic and I swear to God, I missed 30 minutes of that movie just because I fell asleep. It's okay. It's okay. Like nothing, you didn't miss anything that you couldn't make up. Yeah. Yeah. But it's like certain foods, like it just like, it doesn't work anymore on the body.

[00:02:34] And like for me, pasta is one of those that I usually avoid, but yeah. Um, yeah. So yeah. Welcome to midlife crisis, Khandan. Wow. Uh, we are talking about Toxic. We're talking about a few other movies that we've watched like, uh, Cocktail 2, Babita Singh reporting. Amrita, you watch Bethlehem Kudumba unit. I think I pronounced that almost correct. And we're going to be reading

[00:03:01] some emails because we've got messages and, uh, you know, Patreon has sent us stuff. So it's been a while, you know, we thought it might be good to just kind of talk about those things. So let's start with an email we got from Pragati, uh, long time listeners and long time Patreon, um, you know, supporters. So love hearing from them. Um, hi guys. I've been wanting to write to you for a while now.

[00:03:29] I started listening to your podcast when Irfan passed away, which I'm pretty sure was also around lockdown era. You spoke about Rishi and Irfan. And I remember thinking these are my people. Do you guys remember that? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Because I remember that vividly because I made the thumbnail for that episode. I shed a tear. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I then went back and listened to all episodes from

[00:03:54] the beginning. Remember when we had all the time in the world to do that? Um, I, oh, this is interesting. I'm pretty sure Sujoy and I were at the college at the same time in Pune. I remember him mentioning, watching a movie and Vijay talkies and thinking, I'm pretty sure I did that too. I was at, can I mention this? I was at Ferguson college from 97 to 2001. No, I, I landed in Pune in 2005.

[00:04:22] Ah, okay. Okay. Okay. So not the same thing. I was just wondering. She might've been there at the same time as my best friend though. Like I think she might have, uh, like cross paths with him. I was just wondering if Pragati was the one ragging you. That's what I want to know. You have inspired me to book a trip to Istanbul with my besties. At one point, you mentioned that it was safe for women to travel there alone. I don't really think about

[00:04:47] being harassed by men anymore, which is either the joy of being middle-aged or the result of living in Australia for too long and forgetting what that feels like. Either way, thank you for the tips. Yeah. I hope you have a great time because it's a lovely city. Eat everything, go everywhere, like do everything. Yeah. And like I said, midlife crisis, uh, Khandan, man, we have our niche here.

[00:05:13] Um, I, I'll say my lift. I live for your pronunciations of names. I'm also a big action fan and lift weights. So whenever you mention it, either of those, it makes me disproportionately happy. Can I say I am aching to go back to the gym? Like it is like my body is like, like hitting me. Like it's like attacking me. Like what have you been doing for the last six weeks? Cause obviously it's school holidays. So I can't like keep my routine up. So I've been going running,

[00:05:41] which is like, I hate it, but I do it because it keeps me like, you know, uh, fit, but man, it is such an addiction to lift heavy shit. Um, and I love it so much. So Pragati, that was your little plug about, you know, weights. Um, listening to the three of you has become such a, has become part of my week. The little five minute treats from Amrita, which are exclusively on Patreon, which are never five minutes, by the way, they're literally 20 minutes. Yeah.

[00:06:11] Five minute catch up. It's a whole episode. Yeah. But I think, I wonder if it's just what happens when you turn 47. My favorite episodes are the ones where you revisit old Khan movies. So I am really looking forward to English Babu Desi. Amrita! How's that English Babu Desi? Listen, I was going to watch it so that we could record. And then Asim Burney came up with like this list

[00:06:37] for the episode that was like three hours long. And I was like, are we doing English Babu Desi game also? I don't think so. So we'll just have to wait another week for it. By the way, this was a perfect plane movie for you, by the way. You were flying. That's when you should have watched it actually. Maybe it's nostalgia or maybe movies really did feel simpler then. I don't really feel like watching many of the newer ones unless I'm convinced they aren't going to come with hidden hateful messages.

[00:07:07] I refuse to watch Dharanda or Animal. I could barely make it through the 30 seconds of the Toxic trailer. I am so over slow motion. We're going to get into the slow motion part a little bit later because I want to get into that when we talk about Toxic. I guess you get to a certain age and you start saying things like they don't make them like they used to. Thank you. Thank you for all the

[00:07:33] hard work. I genuinely appreciate it. Much love to you. And the most important part from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free, inshallah. So that was Pragati. Lovely email. Yeah. Anything you guys want to add on that? I mean, I'm just really delighted that, you know, like, like, like me, we laugh about being the boomer

[00:07:58] podcast and our niche finding us. But honestly, it does feel like we are all in some sort of like, like therapy group, like sort of helping each other through the slump in Bollywood, you know, like all of us are just like, what the hell? What kind of trash are we watching and why? So it's just nice to have a community out there that is like feeling the same pain that we are going through

[00:08:25] and also understands why we're going through that pain. You know, so yeah. It was funny because like, lately, like I was on that other podcast that the Pan Indian project, and that reel went quite viral. Like, I don't know where which areas of an internet towards hitting. And a lot of new people kind of come into your comments. And they're like, you know, who's this Buddha? Who's this old man talking? Who's Ankh? Who's this Ganja? You know, that kind

[00:08:52] of thing. And I was like, like, that's what I am. Like, how is this going to bother me? You know, like you're like a 21 year old commenting on these things. It's hilarious. Like, I think we, we love being the age we are. And we love the audience that we attract with it. You know, we don't care about, you know, going viral with the kids. It wouldn't work. It's not our audience.

[00:09:14] Somebody on Instagram was talking the other day. And they were just like, you know, like, when you talk about like classic movies, you know, like from the 90s, I was like, what? Classic movies. What the hell are you guys talking about? But it yeah, but it is like, you know, it's like 26 years since we had like the 90s. So yeah, I get it. There's an entire

[00:09:43] generation that grew up after the 90s. So it makes sense. Sure. All right. Yeah, we'll be reading a few other messages later on in the show. But I thought this was a good kickoff. Let's start with our main review, I guess, of this episode, which is toxic. Every time everyone, anyone says the word toxic, all I can hear is like Britney Spears.

[00:10:13] Which fun fact was taken from a Hindi song like it's a it's a sample from a Hindi song. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately, this movie does not have the joy of a Britney Spears song, unfortunately. Sujoy, I was surprised when you told me that you had not seen KGF. How did you miss all of that?

[00:10:37] I did not miss it. I deliberately chose not to watch it. Like I watched as I have really tried watching it like three times. And every time that movie starts, like the sound of it, the way it's shot, the desaturated color palette of it, and the way it's edited, it just throws me off, man. It's such

[00:10:59] a turnoff for me of how that can qualify as a movie. So I'm like completely like against damaging my brain watching six hours of that story. So I just thought that rocking star, Rocky Bhea, whatever, it does not rock my world. It's the same thing for me, by the way. Like I think we've had this conversation before, like I've seen like maybe 30 minutes of it because for mostly the same thing, like it just

[00:11:30] like it wasn't even that I was offended or I was like not like, it just was boring to me. Like I'm sorry. Like it was just incredibly boring to me. And for a long time, I was, I wasn't sure if I should say anything because it seemed to be like very, um, it seemed to me like the people that care about KGF seem to care a lot about KGF,

[00:11:56] kind of like people that care about RRR, you know, uh, it's that same sort of thing. And RRR also for me, I was just like, I don't, I don't really get the hype. Um, so it is, it's the same thing. So I want to get into this a little bit because I do feel, um, there, there is a difference between how KGF has been approached and toxic has been approached. And I, I have a feeling we might be

[00:12:26] negative towards this movie. And I think also like the reception hasn't been good about this movie, right? Like, even though it's maybe makes money, it's not been like a KGF kind of follow up. There has been reports that like the first day, obviously the advanced bookings and all of that, the hype that has the, the PR has been doing has resulted on a very good opening, but the drop from day one to day two has been quite drastic. So yeah, it's not going to be the success that they, especially Yash hoped it would be.

[00:12:56] Yeah. So let's, let's maybe get into the positive a little bit, like just to start, like Amrita, was there anything that you enjoyed watching in Toxic? Is there any positives that we could start the show with? Um, I think what I liked about Toxic is that it was trying to do something, which, It swings.

[00:13:24] Yeah. Like it's not, it like, it sounds kind of like patronizing when you, when you say it, you know, like, Oh, like good job. Like you made an effort, but honestly, in 2026, in Indian cinema, that is a huge deal. Um, especially when you have a star vehicle for a giant South Indian star, like, uh, it's like a pan India film, right? Like it's one of those things.

[00:13:52] Um, and they were trying to pitch it as like this big, like closest that was coming for Bollywood that was like coming for Dharanda. Like this was originally supposed to come out at the same time as Dharanda. Um, and then they had like some sort of like date shuffle, et cetera. But, um, for a movie

[00:14:12] with very mainstream ambitions, this is a movie that tries, um, it, it swings for the fences. And if it misses, it misses, but at least it tried to do something, you know, there is, there are things and ideas and especially the way that it is exploring, um, the emotional side of not just the women, but

[00:14:38] the main male character. I don't see that happening at all in any cinema, you know, like Malayalam does it, but Malayalam does it in a very different way than like this particular syntax of movie looking. Um, and in this particular syntax, this is perhaps a standalone film. Like I can't think of

[00:15:03] anything, at least in the recent say like five to 10 years where, uh, lead male characters, you know, vulnerability is being explored in this way. So I thought that was really great. Hmm. What about you, what's, what's a positive or toxic? Um, you know, the character Satish Chaudhary in Lakbai Chans, when he's like pitching to Rishi Kapoor's Romi Rolly saying,

[00:15:34] It's very that like, when you see that this is an expensive movie, they spent the heck out of it, you know, the, the set pieces, the backdrops, a lot of it is VFX sure, but the whole circus thing, it really wraps up within like five minutes and you can see the production budget in it. You know, uh, a lot of it is so grand and, um, and I'm like very astounded by that, you know, sort of Raj Kapoor-ness

[00:16:03] of it that you throw the kitchen sink at your cinema, like everything is on display and you can tell like how much blood, sweat and tears have gone into the making. How it has been made is questionable, but I can see like the production of it, you know, it's really, really good. Um, also, uh, what Amrita said, the, the whole emotional beat underneath all the gangstar-iness, all the massiness

[00:16:31] that I don't know whose decision it was. That's up to question. And probably people have answers already about whose call was it to lean towards what side of the, uh, the visuals of the story, but the, the underneath underlying layer of the emotional beat and the consequences of violence and the generational trauma, we can analyze all of it. But, uh, I did not expect that from a mass vehicle

[00:17:02] like this movie, like gangster movies such as this from Kamala Hassan to Rajnikan to the, the teleguru, uh, movies that are made every single week. They all have it like all the massy heroes that come out of, you know, years of history of violence and they're, they're still kicking ass without any remorse. You don't get to see that consequence, uh, on, on their own personal story. And, um, you get to see

[00:17:29] that here, which I did not expect it to, but that comes very, very late in the movie. And to get there was, was the journey for me. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny because this, this archetype that Yash is playing, right. It's such a, it really makes me think of that meme that goes around, you know, like, I'm a 50, 50, good boy. I'm a bad boy.

[00:17:56] You know, like I'm a little bit of a bad boy, you know, that kind of thing. It's like, it's cool. And then he does the bad boy dance. Yeah. And that's exactly like, it just all like 90% of South Indian movies are this now. Like it's that meme, you know, it's constantly that. It's like a little, which is funny because here he's very blatantly saying I'm a bad boy and I won't even dance. And he smiles.

[00:18:25] He does dance. He does dance. Does he? Like he does break dancing. But anyway, it doesn't matter. Like it just like, it's just seared into my brain now because it's literally all South Indian movies are this now, you know, it's just hilarious to me. But, um, to get back to the positives, I think, yeah, look, I think for me, the production design is amazing. Like it looks really, really cool. And I think also like I was watching, when you think of KGF or you think of Salar,

[00:18:54] or even like Kalki, that movie, like, I don't even know where those movies are shot. Like, you know, they just seem to be like this blue screen ish grayish, you know, landmass that's somewhere, but I don't know where it is. Right. But here it does. It feels elevated. It is maximalist filmmaking, right? Like it is like everything is in our face. Like the budget is there. And I kind of appreciate it. It's not a visual language or an aesthetic

[00:19:23] that always appealed to me, but I think they were very consistent in what they wanted to do. And I thought that was really cool. I also just like that everybody, especially Yash, was giving it their all. Like clearly there was no moment where like, you know, it's not like I'm not convinced of this, you know, I'm going to like go full on, like, and I think I appreciated that conviction to what they wanted to do. I also like the...

[00:19:51] I thought like the younger Yash really had a, has a shorter, you know, footage in the storyline. And he gets to recap the story, but also his own story is very condensed compared to the older Raya character. So the ticket version of Yash is really, really worked for me. Like he is so convinced in that role. He really shines through in that for me.

[00:20:20] Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's, it's coming also with like a physical transformation, right? I, initially I was like, how did they do this? Like, was it like CGI or what is it like with, you know, because he seemed also taller. Like, so I don't think they did any of that. I think it was just like a physical transformation. Mostly I haven't looked at the BTS too much. So I 100% no, but again, however it was done, the, the commitment of the actor is there on screen, right? Like,

[00:20:49] what also Amrita was saying, I like that it has ideas, but I just, I don't think it delves deeply enough in them and where it kind of wants to lead with those ideas. And it is maybe this idea of, you want to, this is the only way that you can create a massy kind of action vehicle, get people in there and then sneak in some ideas and things and stuff like that in there.

[00:21:18] And it is a kind of a sneaky way to do it. But I mean, maybe that's the only way to do it. You know, that's, that's the thing that I'm kind of thinking about. So yeah. And like the way the reveal happens is also very, very cool. I thought like the visual, the visual style of how the reveal happened, that was very, very cool. Like to use the setting and, and the snow and the mist that surrounds it. And then the reveal happens was visually very,

[00:21:46] very cool. It worked for me more than the entry sequence. You would say. I did not see it happening. I did not see that that would be the twist. I don't know Amrita if that was the case for you, but I like, I like we watched so many movies. We had some ideas. We'd seen the trailer. Me and Sujoy had done a trailer recap on it for Patreon, but I'll be honest, I didn't see the twist coming. I don't know about you Amrita. Neither did I. And I'm, I've seen like a lot of people say that, oh, like I saw that coming.

[00:22:16] I did not see that coming. Yeah. Like, I, I don't know how they saw that coming. Like, unless, you know, they were looking up spoilers. But also this is not usual suspects where I do think they, they are actively tricking the audience. Like the, the, the, the way the filmmaking, it doesn't make sense the way the story is told because they're apps, they're actually, you know, they're tricking the audience. Right. And this is something

[00:22:44] actually that annoyed me about cocktail too, which they, they also do in cocktail too, where there's a reveal at the end where it's just editing wise, storytelling wise, this is not how it should be. The usual suspects says the same story. And then the reveal happens and everything is like, oh my God, that's, you know, it blows your mind here. There was no way to figure it out. There was like a tag on.

[00:23:08] The reason why you couldn't tell in this particular movie is because the style of movie making is anti, I is anti storytelling. Yeah. Because it is very much like the way I was trying to explain this to a friend of mine that I kind of think of this movie less as like a movie, like, like a beginning and an

[00:23:31] end. Right. And more of like a mood board that's come to life. It's like a pastiche of vignettes from that don't necessarily go together. Like there are so many sequences that just come in where you're just like, I see where this is coming from. Like the circus thing is very Fellini. Right. And then you have

[00:23:55] the, uh, the, um, like so many different things that you see, like the, yeah, the nun assassins, the chinoise bits with like Macau, like there's no, there's no reason why you have that. But then, you know, one point they are having a carnival for Christmas in Goa and the very next second, he is in snowy, you know, terrain, which does not make sense whatsoever.

[00:24:25] And the movie is like, no, like this is the landscape that this story is going into. And like, so, and then it's also set in 1947 for some reason, like, why is it set in 1947? And then there is no, like, you know, there's no historical coherence to them being in all these different times. I think the only reason this is set in 1947 is because people used to love circuses.

[00:24:54] Like 1985, nobody would go to a circus, but here people are just lined up to go to that damn circus. Like there's nothing happening. There's one lady hanging on a wire and like, it's like the most bowling circus ever. They don't even have any animals or lions or fire breathers. It's just Kiara Advani hanging on a thread. That's the whole show. But like, it's when the, the storytelling itself is so unreliable,

[00:25:22] then there is no way for you to telegraph a twist in the tale. And then to also arrive at that twist and be like what you were saying about the usual suspects, which is that, you know, because the usual suspects, the first like 90% of the film or 99% of the film is a very linear story that is being told

[00:25:44] in a very linear fashion. And it makes, you know, it, it matches what the, what the viewers idea of a story is. Yeah. Toxic does not like, it's such a fractured storytelling. Um, and we'll get to the, you know, the spoilers in a bit, but the fractured nature of its storytelling

[00:26:08] also sort of mirrors the twist in the story. And therefore there's like nothing about this that you can rely on for you to be like, oh, like this was the, the story sort of screwing with the, with the narrative and with reality. Like when the reveal happens and the, the, the, the recap to what had

[00:26:30] actually happened. Yeah. You can't create a world where you in, like, you can't create an introduction of a new character where that introduction itself is supposed to be a fake or a dream sequence. Yeah. You know, you get to see Ticket for the first time in his glory in, in that assassination scene where he is, you know, chopping down the, the rebel army. And that entire thing was a dream sequence

[00:26:58] that the, uh, the, uh, that Raya dreams in his bath, uh, when he hears that news in the radio. That, that, yeah, that especially was the thing that was like so weird because it's not so much that Raya is imagining, you know, how this character like, um, intersects with his own story, but he creates a fully lived backstory for this one character.

[00:27:28] Yeah. Ticket is having raves with Israelis. Like there's a moment, like, there's no reason why are you hanging out with Israelis at this moment? Right? Like, but he is like, that is a very specific fantasy that, you know, Raya is creating. Like, I hope I can party with Zionists in India, you know? Like what is going on here? But what I find interesting in the movie also is that, um, and this is a thing that we've also seen in,

[00:27:56] uh, in, um, animal, I would say it's this man who is uncaged with all the trappings of society. Like he is the ultimate alpha, like nothing can stop him except the conventions of a family bond and marriage. Like, you know, nothing can trap him except that. And he's constantly like fighting against that. Like, like there was no reason why he would reject his son. Like there was no reason,

[00:28:26] right? Because specifically he's talking about his legacy. He's fighting and killing people for his legacy. When he does end up having his own child, he makes him a very weak child. When he's the one being an actual father, he makes the child quite weak. He's not a badass like Ticket is. Like he's like a very, like, you know, weak child that he's made and he's like, you know, almost teenish. So it is

[00:28:51] this idea of what, what he, how he sees himself, how he's projecting himself, but everything within the film is forcing him to get back into the mold of a husband, the mold of a lover, the mold of a father having his own issues with, you know, his own mother and his own father. And that's the thing that kind of breaks his, break him, breaks him down then. Oh, sorry. Uh, breaks him down more than

[00:29:20] anything else, which I just find it's a repeated pattern in these kind of larger than life alpha movies. But I think it's also the difference between Toxic and these other movies and particularly animal is that Toxic is a little bit more overt in saying this man is a loser, right? Like you can

[00:29:47] say that, oh, like he can fight all these things, all these people. He can take on an entire army. At one point, I think the Chinese lost and launched an invasion into India. And, uh, uh, you know, he's like fighting them off single-handedly and stuff, but he can do all of that, but he can't fight the demons in his own head. And because he can't fight the demons in his own head,

[00:30:16] not just like towards the end of the movie, but also like earlier, you know, his break with Nadia and, um, you know, like everything that happens post, um, the marriage sequence, right? Like, yeah, go ahead. Sorry. No, no, but I was going to say like, he is this badass. Why is he supposed to be married with, um, with, uh, Tara Sutaria in a conventional marriage? Like that idea never made

[00:30:43] sense to me. Like all of these guys are like rich gangster. You wanted to your daughter to get married to this guy, but you're also imagining he's, he's going to be faithful. That is like an absurd idea to me from Tara Sutaria and Tara Sutaria's dad. Like that, like, you know who this man is, right? Nadia knows, she knows, the sister knows, the sister knows very well that he will not enter

[00:31:10] into a conventional marriage with Tara Sutaria. That's what I'm saying. It tries to trap him in these ideas of what... Yeah, but that, that's also something that, you know, that sequence between Ganga and, uh, Raya, where Ganga says to him that to be a king, sometimes one needs to bow one's head and go with the flow, but you're not meant to be a king. You're meant to be a conqueror and that's

[00:31:37] your nature. So you should embrace that. And that's when he like goes ballistic, right? Um, and to me, that says that Ganga is basically his, his connection to reality and Ganga is the one that basically tells him like, this is how we live. And once Ganga is gone, he doesn't have anyone that tells him this is how life ought to be lived. And that's sort of like, you know, like...

[00:32:05] She's the anchor to reality. He becomes the anchor to reality. He becomes unmoored basically, yeah. Yeah. And that like leads, that's his, his original fracture in his reality is when Ganga is gone from his life. Um, and so it's not so much that Nadia, and now we're heading into spoiler territory, but, um, so if you haven't watched Toxic and you feel like you'd need like a spoiler-free

[00:32:29] review, then maybe you should, you know, go away from this at this point. But, um, the, it's not so much that Nadia has killed Ganga. Um, it is that Ganga doesn't exist anymore. And therefore, Raya doesn't know what is right, what is wrong, how does one live? Because his entire, like from the moment he's born, Ganga is the only one that has, like, Ganga is his entire world. Like he doesn't have

[00:32:59] anybody else. Not, he doesn't have a mom. He doesn't, like the sequence where they run into their mom again and their mom is like feeding food to Ganga and to Raya and Raya doesn't take the food from her. Like, and, but like Raya will take food from Ganga even though he knows that Ganga has to like sell her body to feed him. Right. And he understands that that is violence being done to

[00:33:25] her. But he also understands that Ganga is his, the source of like everything in his life from the food that he eats to his ambitions to the people that he's allowed to have in his life. Like Ganga is basically the arbiter of everything. She's literally called Ganga. She's literally called Ganga, right? So, I want to get into this because I think this is how this movie was kind of like promoted also this

[00:33:53] idea. This has been directed by a woman, right? This is Geetu Mohandas. And I think this is a very large part of the discussion that we need to have about this movie. Because like, especially when you compare it with a movie like with Animal, for example, right? Because it's an easy combination, like it's an easy comparison, because that also is speaking with certain themes. And there's

[00:34:17] definitely certain themes that Toxic has taken over from Animal, or at least figured out this is the things that is appealing to audiences. But there's a different slant to a woman making this movie, I feel. And there's this idea, you know, like, what is representation, right? Do women only need to make female centric or feminist movies, right? Can they not also make these

[00:34:44] massy kind of movies and put their own stamp on it, right? And I think there's certain things that are in this movie that, you know, a man would have not necessarily done. Like just the idea of how many female actresses there are in this movie, right? Not just that, but also, you know, like, there's been a lot of ink that has been spilled about the sex in

[00:35:12] this film. And you know, there's like, oh, like, you know, like, what do you mean she's a female director? And she's made this movie in which like, there's so much sex. And there's this weird, like, Indian incel, sort of parasocial fixation with Kiara Advani specifically, having like so many sex scenes with Yash in this film, where they're just like, they're just imagining like Siddharth Malhotra getting

[00:35:40] cupped. And they're just like, oh my god, like, how is he going to feel when his wife is having so much sex? And she's not actually having sex. She's, she's acting like in a sex scene. And by the way, Yash is also there with her with her. And also with like Rukmini Vasanth, who is like the, the Kanadiga actress who's there. And they're all just like, oh, she's so pure. And she was like, wifey material. And now she's in this filth. And like, how does this happen? And the thing that

[00:36:08] I went to see this with like a friend of mine, who's a woman, and the thing that both of us noticed that is that the women were shot very aesthetically, there was no like, lingering shots of their body, like the camera wasn't gazing at them in like a hyper sexualized way. Like obviously, the sex itself was like very sexy, very hot, like whatever. But the camera was more focused on

[00:36:37] the naked body of Yash. And it was more objectified. You know, it was more objectifying like Yash's body than the body of these women. And none of the sex was exploitative. And all of the scenes, the women were in control. Like literally, most of the time, women were on top. That's literally how all the scenes are shot, right? And compare that to, you know, the animal sequences, right?

[00:37:05] It's not the same thing at all. And it's an interesting thing for me, because both animal and toxic and no, not animal, Salar, KGF, this is speaking to a certain audience and an audience that I don't necessarily understand. Like, I don't understand what appeals to them, like that the sex scenes and animal were totally fine, but they're not here. I don't understand that psyche. For me,

[00:37:33] it's very alien. I don't understand. So do you understand? Oh, sorry, go ahead. No, like that is also why I think that a lot of people are having a meltdown about this movie is because it doesn't perform masculinity the way that all these other South Indian movies do. And therefore, and also, it doesn't perform masculinity in that particular manner. And it stars Yash,

[00:38:01] who is like this big, hulking giant of a man. And they can't really call him a sissy. But he is performing like male vulnerability. And I want you guys to actually talk about that, actually, because to me, it's like kind of the most fascinating part of this entire movie is the performance of male vulnerability. But I think that's basically what is really doing

[00:38:27] people's heads in because it's so against the mainstream narrative of a movie like this. Yeah, when I hear from Sujoy, Sujoy, you have more of an understanding of the desi male brain than I do sometimes. Wow. No, not in a bad way, but just like, you know, you're a bad boy. You're 50-50.

[00:38:49] Should I do the dance? No. I think you guys are putting more nuance to it than the movie really wants to. I think I cannot give enough credit to this movie and the storytelling of it. It's so not nuanced.

[00:39:11] And I think because you are well-read and you see context, that's why you're putting more story into it. Here, the storytelling part of Toxic really irks for me, which is mostly to do with the editing. The guy called Ujwal Kurkarni, who is the editor of this movie, who's done editing for Salar,

[00:39:37] who's done edit for KGF part two and for this movie. And there is something in cinema that is called the average shot length, right? If the camera stays on a particular scene, that's the shot length. And if you average it out across the movie, the average shot length of this movie is less than three seconds. If you just stay and watch this and the way this movie is shot is it looks

[00:40:03] like, you know, one of those Twitter compilations or YouTube short compilations where they show an entire chapter of John Wick in like seven minutes, like they just chop the heck out of that. It's very much that. And what that does for my brain is that I've already checked out of it. So yeah, the intimacy,

[00:40:24] the emotion, all of that is very much tailored towards an ADHD brain where you want a barrage of information thrown. And it's like, you don't want yourself distracted from the screen. It's very much something that is born out of short form content. And I don't think that works in a movie. And hence,

[00:40:49] I like when you talk about intimacy or character growth and all of that, I don't see it. It's all washed over me. I was like, okay, fair. We have gone from this to that to this to that. And like, at the end of it, I got nothing. Yeah. Does that answer my question? No, that's actually a really good point. Because like one of the things that this movie does away with is transitions. Like, I don't know if you guys noticed, but like, there'll be a scene

[00:41:18] and then it'll cut to black. And then there's like another scene. And you are just like, how do we go from like that scene? So many times, I don't know where they were, how they got there, like who people were. But I don't know. Beach mein file corrupt ho gaya tha. Yeah. But again, like what Sujoy is saying that maybe we are intellectualizing this, right? Maybe I don't know if we are or not, but because it seems to be like, maybe it's like, you know,

[00:41:47] how his brain is broken and we can follow time, you know, like maybe that or maybe it's just shit filmmaking. I don't know what it is. It is. I'm telling you, it's shit filmmaking. Yeah. Yeah. Here I couldn't escape the cinema. That's why I kept watching it. But if you were to see say like, oh, Sujoy, you have to watch it on Netflix, I would have checked out within the 30 minutes of this movie because that 30 minutes in that first 30 minutes, what happening

[00:42:12] is there's a, you know, a preface, a trailer to the movie in the first part of the movie itself. That's true. And then you go to like a pre-independence India, the Portuguese are here. Then three murders happen. And then like why the murder is happening? Then there's a betrayal. That's the graveyard scene. Then you don't know who these people are, why these murders are happening. Then Ganga

[00:42:37] comes, then all these things happen. And then there is a reverse betrayal. I'm like, I don't care what betrayal is happening. The drama behind it. If you compare it to the many, many gangster movies that have come before, why do you care? Why the betrayal happens is because you are invested in these characters. You don't care who these characters are anymore. These are like just, oh, Lona Vala se do bande utha ke leke aache. They're like speaking Portuguese,

[00:43:05] you know, and badly. Yeah. Yeah. Very, very badly. And like, who are these people? Why should I care? They're just being shot. Some guy's hand is being chopped. Like, yeah. There's one thing that I did also notice in this movie. And then I think we should move on because I think unless we have some very, you know, very important point we make. You know, that sequence. I have one. Okay. I want to talk about that sequence with the nuns that attack,

[00:43:34] you know, because it has this combination of titillation with, you know, religiousity, which again, maybe I'm intellectualizing. I don't know. But it is picked up from a video game action sequence. I can't remember which one, but it is from a video game sequence. Yeah. I mean, this movie has so many influences throughout, like Wong Kar Wai, Gemini Man, like there's so much in it. Right. But it was just so interesting because the violence against this women were so high,

[00:44:03] like the gore was so high. And it made me think that there's this funny thing where, you know, where a lot of times when, when there's a, like a strip scene or a, you know, a hero is sleeping with women or like a lot of times they'll bring in white women because they'll be, we're allowed to do this with white women. Right. But here they do this with violence, which is like, you would

[00:44:30] never be able to kill Desi women with such violence that you can kill white women on screen. And I thought it was such an interesting racial component added to this level where you can put them from nuns to, you know, stripper costumes. Then you can like, like really hurt them, make fun of it, that you're hurting them and then kill them almost in a sexual manner, which is like, I was like, what

[00:44:57] 50 kinks are these? Like I couldn't even follow the quick kink anymore. It was insane. Was that, Sujai, was that the scene you wanted to pick out or was there another one? No, no, no. I wanted to point out two things is when we initially watched the trailer and we commented on the action and how slow motion, we already made a reel about how slow motion should be just dead now in action movies, we should not be doing slow motion and how it was so highlighted

[00:45:23] in the trailer. A lot of these mass movies have the slow motion shots, how cool I'm looking, you know, slaying these villains. And I'm quite happy that they did away with slow motion. Quite a few of the action sequences here. The first introduction in the graveyard action sequence, there is some bit of gunfu, but with slow motion, but there is those smart moving jib arms that they do with the

[00:45:51] one-er where the camera follows the action this way, that way, that way. That was done quite well, even though there is a bit of that speed ramping slow motion style that Zack Snyder has made infamous now. Yeah, Matrix was 1999, we should not be doing slow motion anymore. It only showcases the weaknesses and the non-confidence in the director in, you know, filming action. But when you follow

[00:46:18] through into the circus action sequence, which is, I think, the most brutal out of all of the action sequences here where he literally chops off heads twice. And that does not have any speed ramping or slow motion, but I could tell that they were speeding up the action a bit, like to match it with the

[00:46:41] furiousness of this action sequence. But I thought it was done quite well, to my surprise, that I did not expect that level of skill and stunt work and also gore to come in this. Like they put the money where their mouth is. And yeah, that was quite done well. So I'm happy with the auction overall. Like that scene where he kills the Chinese guy and like, you know, like by like pushing him up against

[00:47:08] the tap. The shower head. Yeah. And then like washes himself off in the shower. Like that was inventive to me. Like I feel, I feel like I've seen a lot of this cartoon violence and a bunch of movies over the past 10 years, but that was like something that I hadn't seen before. And I was like, oh, like, okay. So they're bringing the A game in terms of coming up with shit, you know? Yeah. And then they ramp it up even more when the actual reveal happens about, you know, it's like even

[00:47:36] worse then, you know? So, uh, I mean, I mean, there's, I wouldn't call this like a success, this movie, like I don't think, but it has interesting points. And I think that's why we want to talk about it on the podcast, because I feel it's like a movie where you can have a lot of discussion about it without saying it's good, bad, go watch it five stars, 150 crores on day one, you know, that kind of thing, uh, which, which is already something that I can appreciate,

[00:48:01] you know, more than, you know, uh, it did feel for me that this need needed room to breathe. Like there is no room to breathe at all in this story. Like shit happens. And then we move on to the next thing, which brings me to the thought that this should have been two movies in a way, a lot of story in this. I don't know if that is a viable thing, but it felt like a lot of things

[00:48:28] happen and, and there is not enough movie, uh, like time for the audience to digest those things and then move on and emote on that on whatever. But this movie just wants to be a show reel after show reel. Yeah. But I think like, you know, Yash is a tiny, tiny man with a lot of swagger. And I think that's kind of cool that he's putting kind of his money behind this and, you know, like committing

[00:48:52] to it, you know, and like I said, like, there's a lot of female actresses in this. They get a good role. They get a lot to do, to make choices, make bad choices. And a lot of times you don't even see that like Huma Qureshi's character could have been like a secondary villain, right? Like, but that's played by a woman and she's making, you know, putting, uh, you know, driving the narrative forward. I thought that was interesting, you know, to see it that way. Um, not all of them are

[00:49:20] successful. Uh, and I also didn't understand how you're married to Tara Sutaria and then you want to have an affair with Chiara Advani who look exactly the same. These women look exactly the same. So I don't know. He has a type. Yeah. He clearly has a type. He clearly has a type. Yeah. Yeah. Um, anything. Yeah. I think we're done with Toxic. Uh, anything else you wanted to add,

[00:49:46] Amrita? I want to call out some of the performances because I feel like, uh, Chiara Advani, this was the first time that I got her as an actress. Like I have very famously been off the camp that she's a nothing burger, uh, when it comes to screen first presence and when she's been in pretty much anything that I've seen her in. Um, but this is the first time that I got her and I thought it was like a good

[00:50:12] performance. I thought that, um, she holds the screen in a way that was very surprising to me. Um, and I want to give her her flowers. Um, and I also want to talk about Nantara who is clearly like, she's the one who has like the most experience in like, you know, like a big blockbuster movie of this type of all the people that I saw on screen in this film. Um, and she'd really,

[00:50:38] and also whoever casted like the, the little, the young Ganga, like she and Nantara, like they're like such good casting. Like they, you'd really see, um, you know, how they basically could be the same person, you know? Um, that kid was amazing. Like, I don't know her name, but, um, she was really

[00:50:59] good. Um, and I also want to just point out in Khandan tradition that Gande Gande Bakche, like that child, the, uh, not Ticket, but like what? Daddy, daddy, daddy, daddy, daddy, daddy, daddy, daddy. I, oh my God, by the end of it, I was like, Ticket, kill him, kill him, Ticket, like go ahead.

[00:51:29] Uh, I was so, it was so annoying. Oh my God. Also young, young Ticket was also annoying. Like he was also annoying. And I said that this to Sujoy when we were doing the trailer recap, like there's such dweebs. And again, maybe that's supposed to be the case that the women are awesome and the men are dweebs. I don't know. I don't know what this movie anymore, you know? Yeah. Um, I'd also like to mention that this music here is terrible. Like it's a lot of dubstep. I don't know. Like I think,

[00:51:58] um, if they had Anirudh on their side, this could have been elevated a bit. I'm also done with Vishal Mishra's like, I'm, I'm, you know, tabahi, tabahi. I cannot stand his music. Like it's always the same thing. I hate it. I don't like it. Yeah. Also like there is literally a song here where this, when you are supposed to like gasp with awe at Yash entering the screen as Raya and the lyrics go,

[00:52:28] his aura hits you. Yeah. That was it. It's so cringe. And then he's like hitting people. If you have to say it, it's not. Um, I also have like, uh, you know, like a thing about Yash, like I see the star quality. I see why like so many people are like giant fans of Yash or whatever. But I also think that Yash in this film in general, I don't know if he does this like,

[00:52:56] you know, across all his other films. Um, I'm not that familiar with his oeuvre, but, um, Yash needs to stop doing that thing that Shah Rukh does, you know, where he puts on the Batman voice to show that he means business, you know, where he goes like, Oh, I'm going to do this. I'm like a bad guy. And I'm just like, I, it's annoying when Shah Rukh does it. Like, I don't like it. I think

[00:53:21] it's stupid and I think it's lazy and tacky. And I definitely don't like it when Yash does it. It just makes him sound like he's drunk. Um, and I'm just like, I don't, I don't get it. You know? Uh, I think Yash is those male stars that his appeal or his aura is supposed to speak to men and not to women. Like, you know, I think, uh, that's the kind of appeal he's projecting. That's the aura he's hitting you with, you know, it's for men. It's not for women. I think.

[00:53:52] Well, was it for you? I think he's definitely like a star, like even in KGF, it's, it's, you can't, you know, you can't deny it. Like he's going to maybe even eat up Ranbir Kapoor in Ramayana, right? Like he has that presence, right? Um, but imagine if Ravan wins in this Ramayana. Like in real world, you know, like, uh, maybe it's a based on reality. Um, yeah. Um, yeah.

[00:54:21] Lots to talk about. I want to hear from our listeners. If they have thoughts, send us an email and I think maybe we can talk about it in the next episode because we've talked to quite a bit about toxic already. Um, shall we move on to a few other things that we've watched? Um, oh, I watched, um, no, Amrita, you watched something amazing. Let's do that first. Uh, yeah, I watched the new Onam release, uh, from the Malayalam film industry, which is Bethlehem

[00:54:48] Kudumba unit. Um, and it is like, I honestly, like we're looking for something that's sort of like a slice of life rom-com. Um, there's just like full of really well-etched characters who are like cute and funny. Then I highly recommend this movie. It's, um, it's genuinely like one of the, the better times that I've had in the cinemas this year.

[00:55:15] I thought it wasn't playing here anymore, but there were some showings and then I, I didn't get a chance to, but yeah, it's been getting like rave reviews from pretty much every person I trust talking about the movies. Um, you, you recommended it also, right? Like try to find a screening if possible. Um, so are you, had, had this landed on your radar or not? Yeah, it has, but I haven't had

[00:55:41] got the time. So probably this week, maybe this coming week, I might find some time to watch it. The one thing I also watched is, um, Babita Singh reporting on, uh, Prime. Uh, this came out. Uh, I don't know if you guys, uh, saw the trailers or anything like that. No, it only showed up like on, I think Suchin's story. And, and so I thought, oh, have you guys seen

[00:56:07] it? I haven't. I want to watch it. Like I didn't get the chance because I was watching Bethlehem, Kodomayunet, and then I watched Toxic, which is two movies more than I have in like six months. Like, like it's been. Imagine if you had watched English Babu Desi Mame as well. Never, never. It's going to be, English Babu Desi Mame is going to be the Matt Damon of like,

[00:56:31] you know how Matt Damon is to Jimmy Kimmel's show where he's just like runs out of time every time Matt Damon is supposed to be there. That's what it's going to be for English Babu Desi Mame. Um, but no, like seriously speaking, like I, uh, I love Namisha Vijayan who plays Babita Singh in this film. And, uh, she's like a fantastic actress and I had no idea that she was planning to do things in Hindi,

[00:57:00] like projects in Hindi, but apparently she's like a Bandra girl. Like she's from Bandra. Um, I had no idea. So I'm really interested to watch it. Did you have a good time, Asim? Um, yes. Like it's, it's a tough one. I mean, it's like, it's, I wouldn't give this movie a full recommend like, because it is, it does have issues the way it's paced specifically. Um, like it,

[00:57:26] it's very languidly paced like, uh, and it is a murder investigation kind of thing or going on. And that's something that you and me, Amrita both really enjoy as a genre, right? Like a murder mystery. Um, and it is, like you said, it's starring Namisha. She's from the great, I think she's most well known from the great Indian kitchen. And it does bring a lot of those sensibilities into a murder

[00:57:51] mystery because it's not just about, um, it is about not, we're so used to male storytelling, right? Like it's how a man would, you know, um, solve a mystery, how he would, you know, be a hero, right? And this movie kind of puts everything towards a female perspective, but it also adds

[00:58:15] so many frustrations that, you know, uh, a man can, you know, go on a lookout in a car, 24 hours, sleep in the car with chips in the hand and a coffee. And that's like a trope that you see in literally every detective, uh, kind of thing, right? A woman in India can't do that when she's living with her in-laws, you know what I mean? Like every time she has to go interview a suspect, she has to say, no, I'm actually returning these saris, you know, when she's doing this,

[00:58:44] I have to do these games. So there's so much pressure. And if people see you, what, who you're asking, who you're investigating. So all of those things are added towards it. And also just not the fact that a man can just walk into anything, beat up four or five people and get the answer that he wants. And this woman can't do that. Right. Plus there is the pressure of family. There is the

[00:59:07] pressure of the structure of cops themselves. Like even if you are a city cop coming to a small town, you're not respected because you're a female cop, you know? And so all of those things are in there. Um, and sometimes it, that takes a, the murder mystery takes a bit of a backseat, towards all of those things that are happening. Um, so it does become a lot of, you know, uh,

[00:59:37] men in sweaters and men are terrible. And so I understand that it's tropes that we've seen a few times and it doesn't necessarily do anything new with it. Right. But it does like watching it as a man, it does like, like for me, I would say I'm, I would be aware of a lot of the things that it's kind of,

[01:00:00] you know, saying, uh, but it still gives you, uh, new inputs and perspectives that how frustrating it can be. Because the funny part is that she is, um, so when, when you see the movie start, she's a, she's gotten the job of a constable or an ASI. I don't know what that is in police. Um, and she's making reels for the other male inspectors. So that's kind of the role she's

[01:00:27] gotten because she's inherited this job from her dad. Um, you know, um, so that's kind of the role. So she never, her husband and constantly saying, why are you even taking this role? Can't you just become a teacher? You know? So those are the kinds of pressure she's under. And when she goes home, uh, to his, um, to his, uh, village where his mother is basically his sister, her sister-in-law is about to have a baby and she's staying with her mom and she comes in with the husband and the,

[01:00:55] uh, the thing, and she has basically taking over the whole household because the mom wants to be, uh, the mother-in-law wants to be, you know, like a very mother-in-law kind of thing, like cook and clean and stuff like that, because my daughter is pregnant. So you have to take care of everything. And then the husband is the husband because he's the man of the house. So he's kind of the favorite. So there's all of these politics going on. Right. And every other

[01:01:19] woman Babita, uh, uh, uh, meets is saying, not everybody is as lucky as you Babita. Not everybody has a job as you Babita. Not everybody has a husband like you Babita and her, her life, her job, her marriage are horrible. They're horrible. And that was something that I'd never seen in that stark

[01:01:43] of a way explained, which makes sense to you. Right. Like, but I thought that was something that I had got out of this movie that even when you, cause even the, the sister-in-law who's pregnant says, you know, other people's family aren't as nice and welcoming at ours, you know, but now that you're aware of all of these microaggressions and toxicities, you're like, Oh my God, like, even if it's good, it's bad, you know, for these women, for women in general, I feel so that that's

[01:02:12] something that I kind of got out of it. But, you know, if you're looking for like a fun murder mystery, um, you know, like, uh, uh, whatever, Miss Marple or, you know, anything like that. I don't, this has a bit more and it's not necessarily, it's not a satisfying, uh, murder mystery. So, uh, take, I mean, but it's still, I still enjoy it. Like I still like the movie and

[01:02:38] I think people should watch it. That's what I'm saying. Uh, I'm not sure if they'll enjoy it. Like I can recommend it to you Amrit, I'm not sure about Sujai because he might be on his phone. That's what I'm wondering. Like that's where I'm at, you know? Sujai is our Gen Z bachcha. Like I watch it on the big screen, but I'm also on Twitter. Yeah. But I think that's the fact for, that's a fact for a lot of people, unfortunately. Um,

[01:03:07] do you, should I talk a bit about cocktail too, or shall we keep up for the next one? Next one? No, we can talk about cocktail. Okay. So Netflix release, I've been kind of going through all of them. Like, cause I was off for a few 10, 12 days. So I was like, what's landed? I want to watch it. And honestly cocktail too. The only thing I was interested was Kriti Salon. Like that's the only reason I pretty much watch it because I think she's, I really enjoyed the

[01:03:33] kind of performer she's become in these last few years. And she's become a reason for me to watch movies, which is pretty cool. I think, um, not, she's not always in like great movies, but I think she always brings something that I find, you know, fascinating to watch. Um, what, what were your thoughts on cocktail one, Sujoy? You know, you've never seen it. We spoke about this, but Amrita, you, uh, do you remember cocktail one?

[01:03:57] Yeah, I do. Um, I remember like, you know, the, the resolution of that movie was a little bit, um, uh, not a little bit. It was like a big bit of nonsense because, uh, the entire, like I, that was Deepika's, uh, breakout role, right? Like everybody was like, Oh yeah. You know, Deepika is like one of those, like also ran girls and then cocktail happened and everybody was like, wow, who is that?

[01:04:25] You know, like it really reinvented her image. Like it presented her as not just this ingenue, which was what they were doing up until then, but they presented her as like the sexy woman of today, um, who is complex, who does like multiple things, who has like complicated modern relationships, not just with men, but also with women. Um, and it really changed the, how like Bollywood

[01:04:53] and by Bollywood, I mean the audience looked at her and were willing to accept her. Um, but in terms of the storytelling, uh, you know, so for those of you who haven't watched it and spoilers, but you know, it's been like 10 years or something since cocktail came out. So, um, but basically, uh, when Diana Pentty and Sevali Khan's characters get together and Deepika finds out and she's feeling like

[01:05:23] really vulnerable and she tries her best to break them up and have Seth propose to her instead and make her, um, his fiance. Um, the, the, the real, like, and you can see it at like, um, um, like a, at a subconscious level, which is that Deepika doesn't really want Seth as such. She wants what he

[01:05:53] represents, which is the safety and the assurance of love and, um, acceptance, which is something that she as a character has been missing from her life up until that point. Right. And she feels threatened not by Diana and Seth becoming a couple, but she feels threatened by the fact that she is now once

[01:06:17] again, the third wheel. And she has lost, like now they're no longer on an equal footing. Um, these two people have now become a couple and she is now again, an outsider and she has lost that found family that she has created. And these are like very complex. These are very like subtle things that happen. And the way that that movie chooses to portray that was like the big nonsense part of it,

[01:06:45] which was that they just made her look like, Oh, I'm like really desperate for this man to love me. You know, like that's the, the, you know, the overt way that they were displaying it. Um, and I think a lot of the people that made that movie, particularly Homi Ajani, who like directed it, um, didn't seem to understand that that was the crux of the problem. And from various things that he

[01:07:11] has said over the years, I feel like he thinks that cocktail didn't have a story, you know? And I'm just like, yes, but like, you're not like, you haven't actually diagnosed the actual ailment with the way that you've done it. And therefore everything that I've heard about cocktail two, which is not a movie that I've watched and honestly is not going to be a movie that I am

[01:07:36] going to watch because none of the three people in that movie like rock my world in any way. Hmm. But, um, from everything that I've seen about cocktail two, it suggests to me that nobody learned any lessons whatsoever from the criticisms of cocktail one. Right. So, yeah. And that seems like very much on brand for all the people involved. Yeah. I think cocktail two is interesting because

[01:08:03] I do feel it says more about the filmmakers than it says anything about, than it says anything in the story itself. Um, because the first cocktail was obviously written by Imtiaz Ali, right? And Imtiaz Ali, I feel, and the second one is written by Love Ranjan. So the downfall in quality of writing is so steep, right? And it's interesting because why I say it says more about the makers is because

[01:08:29] Imtiaz Ali has certain themes that he always kind of went to, or he, there's been an evolution, but there's this themes about what love used to be, what love is now traveling, um, you know, understanding the perfect idea of love. These are things that he kind of, you know, always is trying to understand, right? That's Imtiaz Ali. Love Ranjan, he has this anger in him towards women,

[01:08:54] and he wants to subjugate them into conservative values. And that is something that I've seen pretty much in all of the movies that I've seen of him. And this is also something, an anger that comes through in this movie. Although Homia Jani and Anaita Shroff, because his wife, costume is a big part of this movie, right? As it was in Cocktail, they are very much involved in this movie, and they

[01:09:19] pretty much put it, put a layer of their approach to the story that Love Ranjan has made. And they seriously have that vibe. Have you seen that meme of the older couple looking for a third at the bar? That's what Homia Jani and Anaita Shroff are basically doing, and Kriti is their third, that they're trying to get into this thing. I thought the third was Love Ranjan.

[01:09:48] No, no, no. Love Ranjan is just... Isn't it ironic that he has so much hate and rage against women, and his name is Love. Yeah, it really shines through in all of his filmmaking. It's really odd. Yeah. So I was watching this movie, and it's so forcibly trying to be modern and hip. But clearly, these people making it are not modern, and they're not hip at all. So one of the filmmaking

[01:10:14] choices that they do is they have these extreme close-ups that they have of people talking to the camera. And you've seen it in the trailer where Rashmika and Kriti are talking, like screaming at each other. You know, they're fighting, but the camera is there. So you're seeing their expressions. And none of these actors, Shahid included, have the talent to pull off such an extreme close-up.

[01:10:38] It's not working at all, but they put this in quite a few times in terms of what modern filmmaking should be. And what they're also trying to do is this modern idea of... Basically, this movie is like an am-I-the-asshole thread from Reddit mixed in with Judai. That's what cocktail tours. So if you do not know the story of cocktail, I will ask you the question as an am-I-the-asshole question on Reddit,

[01:11:07] and you guys decide who is the asshole here. So Shahid and Rashmika are happily married... No, they're not married. Shahid and Rashmika are together since college. They've been together in college. They've loved each other. She's traveled to another country and studied there. She came back. They stayed together. They had like Skype chats and lovey-dovey things. And they survived COVID

[01:11:35] together. Shahid got COVID. This was like a part of the montage. So they've been together. On one day, they're having like a drunk party on a balcony in Mumbai, I feel, with their other drunk friends. And Shahid says something like, you know, oh, this friend is cheating. If I was cheating, I would never let my wife know that I was cheating because I'm so smart in a way, right? So that puts like a thing in Rashmika's head because they also are not married. She's

[01:12:05] like, oh, he's going to cheat on me if the right situation happened and he's not sure of me. So she hires her friend Kriti, who she's not seen since college days, to seduce Shahid and try to make him, you know, trip, I guess, to make a wrong mistake. Within that, obviously what happens is Kriti ends up falling in love with Shahid. So, who is the asshole?

[01:12:35] They're all assholes. Love Ranjan is the asshole. Yeah. So Kriti is constantly making the moves on Shahid, you know, and she calls Rashmika and she tells him, I tried this and it didn't work and this like that. And Rashmika is just jubilant. She's just so happy that, you know, she tried this and like,

[01:13:00] she's like, no, no, no, you need to push further. You need to push him more for no reason whatsoever. This is like, this is like the first 60% of the movie is just this. And it's, it's completely an absurd situation that has nothing to do with reality. I don't think even young people would ever want to act this way. I don't know, is that making sense to you? Like what I'm telling you in terms of story? I didn't listen to the plot summary. Sorry, I totally zoned out. As soon as you opened your mouth,

[01:13:30] I'm like, fuck this. Oh my God. Okay. This is why we're not growing on YouTube. As soon as you, as soon as you said like Shahid and Rashmika are fiance, are they together? Are they married? I don't know. And then I completely zoned out. I'd like to watch this as a seven minute show reel, you know, edited in a YouTube short. I feel like this is the kind of movie that would be really good in a seven minute reel because it genuinely would be like,

[01:14:00] you know, everything that Asim has said, like that entire plot is like five minutes. It's not even seven minutes. It's like a five minute plot. Yeah. So, yeah. And then the third part is like cocktail one where, you know, it's a fight between who is Shahid going to pick, which is an absurd situation to be in. Even like, why are these two women fighting over middle-aged Shahid now? You know, also Shahid has no chemistry. Like I've said this before, he seems to have this anger since Kabir Singh.

[01:14:28] And it just shows in every movie he's done. And he just doesn't seem to have much chemistry with his female stars anymore. I don't even remember the last time he had like, he just has like anger and like frustration towards maybe his career, maybe the choices, the movies. I don't know what it is, but the joy is gone. Like remember back in the day we used to say, who's the better dancer? Is it Shahid? Is it Hrithik?

[01:14:55] But like Hrithik's gotten old and has a lot of like physical problems. And they're still going to make him, you know, make his skeleton dance even when he's dead. But like Shahid, the light of his eyes has kind of gone away. And there's moments where he's, you know, dancing here. The moment he started growing his beard, you know, it just went downhill for him. Like the charm, the cuteness and everything that he had in Jabwe Met, that he had in Ishqwishk.

[01:15:25] That Shahid is dead. Like we have Haider Shahid, we have Kamine Shahid and now we have Kabir Singh Shahid. Yeah. Yeah, it's gone. Yeah, it's, yeah. And the end, like this is this one of those love Ranjan things I feel, you know, his whole idea is however liberal we are, inside we are Desi uncle and aunties. That's what all of his movies are about. Right. And he ends up choosing, nobody cares. Right.

[01:15:51] I'm going to tell you, he ends up choosing Rashmika because Rashmika, tu meri bhaati hui t-shirt hai. Rashmika, tu meri bhaari hui almari hai. You know, and I was like, my God, like please love Ranjan. Such a win for Rashmika, right? Yeah. Like imagine, you know. I have the bhaati hui t-shirt. Imagine if somebody, oh my God. Yeah. At that moment, she should dump him, right? Yeah. But whoever's married to love Ranjan should dump him.

[01:16:20] Like that's what I'm saying, you know. But like think of all of like Bollywood is, you know, the cinema of speeches about how I am in love with you. Right. Yeah. And today we are in Patti hui t-shirt and Bharivi almari territory. And if that's not an amalgamation of where cinema and rom-coms are, I couldn't find like a better one. It's terrible. Yeah. Yeah. Kreeti looks amazing though. She looks amazing.

[01:16:50] Except in, weirdly enough, in a bikini. She doesn't look good in a bikini, but she looks great everywhere else. Which, yeah, I don't know. It's a very, it's not a good movie, guys. It's not a good movie. I had a bad time. I believe you. Yeah. Shall we read a few more messages that we got? Yes, please. So Malai writes from New York on our Instagram page. Hello, Malai.

[01:17:18] I would love to hear you talk about your favorite and least favorite sequel movies. There are a nauseating number of sequels in Bollywood and almost every semi-successful idea gets turned into a franchise. How do we feel about this? I'm a drag queen from New York who hosts Bollywood drag shows. I'm a self-proclaimed Bollywood nerd and I'd love to call. Go for it. You know, this is such a great question, Malai, because like you said, there's more than enough to choose from.

[01:17:45] And I think we should do a proper episode for this. Deep dive. Yeah, I don't think this is a five-minute thing. I think this deserves to be a full-on episode. When I did read Malai's message, because I did read and prepare the answer, is I remember when Dabang 2 came out. Because obviously, I've been podcasting for a very long time. I don't even know. I don't think Dabang 2 was a Khandan episode.

[01:18:15] This was probably my old Upodcast tips, right? And I was like, at that time, guys, like, okay, you know my biases about Salman and all that. That aside, I remember saying the statement, this is one of the best sequels that Bollywood has made. Like, at that time. Because it was one of the first. It's like singed and it came back when I was reading Malai's message. But at that time, it was new. Sequels were new and they hadn't like figured out.

[01:18:43] And that was actually like, they were taking it to a new level. They were making the action scenes bigger. And I was saying like, this is what a sequel does. Like, if Rambo First Blood is a certain kind of movie, then Rambo 2 is a different kind of movie. But that's what Dabang 2 is trying to do. It's not a better movie. It's a bigger movie, right? And that's what it made me think about. But since then, we've had so many. Like, so many.

[01:19:13] One after the other. One after the other. And now, I do agree, Amrita. I do think we might need to do a full kind. And also just the fact that some sequels that I wanted to see have not been released. You know, they just quit. And like thinking of Jaga Jasoos, for example, right? Yeah. That's a movie that I think about so many times that I would love to have a sequel on. And it's never going to be made, unfortunately, right? So, yeah.

[01:19:42] I don't know if there's any that pop up in your mind that you really enjoyed as a sequel. Or we just make a specific episode on this. Yeah. Dawn 2 comes to mind. I like Dawn 2 better than Dawn 1. Yeah. So, there is a dedicated page on Wikipedia about the list of Indian film series. They go by language even. So, there's Bengali, obviously. You know, the whole Apu trilogy.

[01:20:06] That's a whole, like one of the holy grails of any sequel movies or trilogies in Indian cinema. Then some of the unexpected surprises that I got and quite pleasant was, so we had Jewel Thief, which is one of Vijayanan's great movies of the 60s. And then in 1996, Devanan tried to make a sequel to it called Return to Jewel Thief, which was a huge flop.

[01:20:36] And that was terrible. Then, obviously, Ghayal released in the 90s. And in 2016, probably, there was a Ghayal once again that Sunny Devol did, which was a huge, huge flop. So, and when we talk about sequels, there is the Vishesh films, you know, catalog of films that exist in the same universe, but not necessarily sequels like Jisim and Jisim 2 and Murder and Murder 2 and Raz and Raz and 1920.

[01:21:04] There's like 19 sequels of 1920. Yeah, there's lots to talk about sequels. Awadapan, right? Like, that seemed, like I did not realize that they were creating an Awadapan universe until I went through, like, you guys talking about it. So, yeah, it's an interesting topic. I don't know if we should talk about Sadak too. Yeah. We need to, we should do, we should do an episode, guys.

[01:21:33] Like, this is, this honestly is, like, one of the more interesting topics that have come up. Let's do it. That will make Malai happy. So, that's good. And check out our Instagram. It should be in the, in our comment section on the page. Amrita, you had a few. Well, this is from the Patreon. Like, our wonderful, wonderful people who subscribe to us on our Patreon, which is patreon.com slash khandanpodcast,

[01:22:02] which you can join for as little as a dollar, for amazing content. Come join us. But one of our old school, you know, Patreons, Maria Fisher, sent in this question. Do you all think Varun's career will be better or worse with his dad's retirement? Do you think any of the, okay, so that is, like, the first question. She has, like, a couple of questions. So, we'll get to it. But this is, like, a really good question.

[01:22:31] How do you think his career is going to be impacted by David Dhawan retiring? I don't think the situation that Varun's career is in is the fault of his dad. Like, I think these are very much his choices that he's making. And it's, I mean, David Dhawan has made, like, he's a, he's, his type of cinema is done.

[01:23:01] Like, that doesn't work anymore. You know? So, I think he, he tried it out with these last two ones, Kudi number one, and then also with, Hey Jawani To Ishkona, which I still haven't finished, Sujo. I still haven't finished watching that movie. It's crazy. I got, like, 40 minutes in. Yeah, I'm not going to revisit that world. Yeah. So, I think, I think Varun is making really bad choices. And I don't think he understands what he wants to do anymore.

[01:23:29] And I fear for him because I feel that the boat might have passed him by. Because he came into... Oh, 100%. 100%. Yeah. He came into this as a combo of Salman and Govinda. And that was a type of template that only David Dhawan could work with, right? But it was Salman and Govinda in a David Dhawan movie,

[01:23:54] where Salman and Govinda outside of those movies have very successful and big careers, right? And I think he's just kind of lost the plot, I feel, unfortunately. And I think any problem that he has is not David's fault. It's Varun's fault. Yeah. Yeah. So, to answer that question, I think he is the one who needs to wake up and smell the coffee, really. And not necessarily, like, David Dhawan retiring or not retiring is going to change anything.

[01:24:25] Yeah. He needs to pick better projects and reinvent himself. What is he? I thought Sujoy was going to say he's the one who needs to retire instead of David Dhawan. Maybe. You know, I was thinking... Not everybody needs to be an actor. Honestly, no. I think he should take the roles Shahid has been taking. Like, that's the roles Varun should be doing. Cocktail 2, he would have been great in it. Deva, he would have been great in it, you know? But Shahid wasn't and Varun could have been.

[01:24:55] Shahzade, he would have been great in it. Yeah. Amrita, what do you think? Yeah, I don't really care about Varun. That's what I thought. That's what I thought. I'm like, you know, like, whatever. Anyway. So, Maria has a follow-up question, which is, do you think any of the Khans will ever play a grandpa? Hmm. I mean... I mean...

[01:25:22] I mean, there is a grandpa gangster role, like Kamal Hassan is doing, probably. Like, both Amir and Shahrukh have done old people roles in Jawahan and probably like Dangal. But I don't know about grandpa. Maybe like Bhutanath in a different world. You know, that age hasn't come yet.

[01:25:51] But I don't see Salman doing that role. Yeah, I don't see Salman doing that either. I just don't think... I think Salman, how he works in movies is that this is a business. He doesn't necessarily love making movies, right? He likes hanging out with his friends and making money. Like, that's what his main thing is. Especially now in his career, I think. He wants to prove that he's not a failure.

[01:26:21] And that is a punch that he kind of delivers every, you know, eight, nine years when things are going bad. That just kind of like gets his fire going again. That competitive spirit that he has. But I don't think he loves... Like, I don't think Salman at home watches Korean movies. You know? Like, you know what I mean? He doesn't watch French cinema, right? Like, he doesn't love the art of cinema. He's like a worker, like Ajay is, like Akshay is. So I don't think he will be doing those kind of roles. He might become a writer or a producer or something.

[01:26:50] Or just like do TV host. I think Shah Rukh and Amir have a love for cinema. So I think they might be able to do it. I can see Shah Rukh play a granddad and still romancing a grandmom. You know? Like, I can see that happening in 20, 30 years. So Rani Mukherjee will be playing that grandmom. Yeah. And then she has a... Like, okay. So she has an episode pitch.

[01:27:18] She says, also, I was thinking about how you could do Teesmar Khan, which is like Asim's dream come true. And maybe a short three, four movie series on movies with Khan in the title. Are there other good ones? I feel like the only other movie that I know that has Khan in the title is My Name is Khan. Are there any other ones? Isn't there like some... Is there like a Pathan...

[01:27:46] You know, like that 80s Pathan era where there was like Sultan Khan or something? Isn't there like a Mithin and Jitendra movie with Khan in it? The wrath of Khan? Wrath of Khan. I don't know if there's any good ones. And then Melanie Subramaniam sent in a question again from our Patreon. Hi, Melanie.

[01:28:10] And she says, what are your thoughts about the longevity of the stars that debuted in the 2000s? The difference between the male and the female ones and how they have dealt with their career. Who are the stars that debuted in the 2000s? That would be like Hrithik... Shahid. Barely. Like Hrithik was like what? 2000, right? Like that's when it came out. Shahid, John Abraham, these kind of guys. Who else is there?

[01:28:37] Sonam, Deepika, Katrina. I was watching Katrina. Katrina posted a new video today. I think it's like her first post-pregnancy Instagram where she's selling her K beauty products. Yeah. Which my mind is so weird. It says Hydra base. And I thought it's like Hydra base makeup.

[01:29:04] It's like what is Katrina selling? But I was just happy to see her. I was just happy to see her. Okay. I had a good batch, man. That's like good names. Yeah.

[01:29:31] I think like when you read that list, I feel women are doing much better than the men are. Like, no? Like... Yeah. I mean, in terms of longevity, no. I think like obviously like Shahid and John and Ranveer and Ranveer, of course. Um... But Ritek, like these are people who are still like getting movies greenlit, right? Whereas most of the women are either like...

[01:30:00] Like who's still working out of that list? It's like... Like Deepika. Kareena. That's it. And Kareena. Kareena has like... I think Kareena is perhaps the one female star who's like really played her career card really well. Yeah. She has a really good grasp on her lore and who she is and what works for her on screen.

[01:30:26] And she's like very much in control of her star power. Yeah. And I think like Deepika is also successful because she's very much the same. Like she has like a really good sense of like what she wants to do, why she's doing it and how it builds towards her brand. And then I think like Anushka and Katrina, they voluntarily stepped away for personal reasons.

[01:30:56] And then the others kind of like fell by the wayside sadly. Oh, and Priyanka. Priyanka is now a Desi girl in the United States. Let's not forget. But the funny part is like with... Like I would be excited if Katrina Anushka came back, but I don't think even audiences would be excited. I don't know if they can really like mount this big comeback in a way. It's kind of like... And I don't think they should.

[01:31:25] Like I don't think they need to or they should. But Sonam, I don't think there's any demand for a Sonam return to screen. But I was never... Which is wild because like Sonam is the one person... Like Sonam and Anushka were the two people that like really did a great job in producing movies, right? Sonam with Rhea Kapoor and Anushka with her brother. They just like...

[01:31:54] And I think like Sonam's movies were a lot more mainstream even, right? And yet I don't think... Like I don't think any of the guys like John Abraham or Abhishek Bachchan or Hrithik Roshan or any of them made movies the way that these two ladies did. And yet we don't really treat them with the same amount of respect, which in itself is, you know, commentary. Yeah. I mean, John has produced...

[01:32:24] Like he's put himself out there, right? Like he's done a few very interesting things and he's trying to challenge himself. But like Abhishek, like, you know, where is his career even, you know, at the moment? Shahid seems lost, like I just said. Yeah, it's... Yeah, maybe it's just that I have more love for the women. Like when you mentioned those names. Yeah. What do you think, Sujoy?

[01:32:56] Yeah. I mean, Bollywood in itself is kind of lost. So what are the actors and actresses are going to do? Like there are no good movies being made. Like this year, last year, the year before have all been pretty forgettable. It was very difficult for us to even select top five movies of the year. Do you know what I mean? I think the pandemic and streaming and Netflix, it's done a big number.

[01:33:23] And like not empowering actors and writers and all of that. And the whole universification of everything has just sort of handicapped the creativity industry as a whole. Everything needs to be a franchise. Everything needs to be merchandise. Everything. Yeah. It's all very short-term gain oriented.

[01:33:50] And so nobody's really invested in making a good movie. And so I don't see how, what's the future for the 2000s actors, which we like really adored when they all debuted. Yeah. There's also just like the excitement is maybe a little bit gone also, you know, like I think somebody had also sent a message about that. Like even on our end that we don't even seem that excited sometimes to talk about movies, right?

[01:34:19] And yeah, it's like, it's hard when, you know, like current actors, like, I don't know, like Janvi and like Ishaan Qatar and Saar Ali Khan, they don't know what to do with their career or which movie they were in there. They actively want to have a career. They want to build it out. They want to be actors. They can't find a footing. Like how is, what justification is there for Anushka, who's a, you know, a billionaire? Why would she even want to come back to movies? You know, like what's the point?

[01:34:49] And so, yeah, I think there's definitely like the stars are in a weird spot, but I think also cinema is just in a weird spot. Sujo, you just said, you know, top five movies and I'm already dreading making the top 10 of this year. Imagine how you want to do that, you know? We've been like, end of August, September is going to start. What else is remaining? Like, are we really looking forward to King? Ramayana. Ramayana. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Is King coming out this year?

[01:35:19] Yeah. King is supposed to be Christmas release. Ramayana is Diwali release. Yeah. Salman has some good ones. Like that monster that they're saying and the one that he's working with Raj or DK. Like that's some interesting stuff. Like, you know. Asim's like well of hope runs eternal. Like, just like the well has like dried up and fallen to pieces.

[01:35:44] And Asim is still there with this little bucket going like, maybe if I just lower it a little bit more. I didn't mention Mathur Boomi and I have to sit through Mathur Boomi to get to Monster and the Raj and DK movie. Right. So, yeah. Is that movie even coming out? Because I feel like after all the reshoots and stuff and like Salman seems disinterested in it now. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I never cared. It's done, bro. It's done, bro.

[01:36:14] Cool. I think we're also done for this episode. I think we did a good job. Like pat ourselves on the back. We weren't there for a couple of weeks, but we gave content to you people. So, for more content, follow us on Patreon. I think also a few YouTube episodes will be dropping soon. I think those edits will be done soon. So, check us out there. Amrita, where can people find you online? Sadly, on Twitter. Like, I'm back on Twitter at AmritaIQ. So, you can definitely find me there.

[01:36:44] And also Patreon. Because as, you know, the guys were saying and as other Patreon members have mentioned, I like to do these catch-up videos and sessions with the people on Patreon. And it's sort of like a safe space where we can all just, like, be ourselves. And we can talk about, like, our real opinions, etc. I mean, we do that on the show also. As I'm saying this, I'm just like, well, when am I not...

[01:37:13] Self-fixering yourself. Yeah. Like, I met somebody the other day who, like, does sponsorship gigs, you know. And we were, like, talking about stuff. And I was just like, yeah, like, you should first listen to our podcast. Because there might be, like, a few opinions that, like, make you feel, you know, some kind of way. Especially in New India.

[01:37:38] But, yeah, patreon.com slash khandanpodcast is your best way to be in touch with me. But you can also find me on Twitter at AmritaIQ. Tojoy? You can find me on Instagram at instagram.com slash 983k or at 983k on the app. You can follow us on YouTube at khandanpodcast where all our video content drops.

[01:38:05] And as Amrita said, you can find us, our exclusive content on Patreon at patreon.com slash khandanpodcast. Yeah, I'm... Where am I? I'm not that much on Twitter anymore. Like, I've locked my profile a while ago. So, I'm just not... I don't want to... I don't want to send a tweet anymore. Like, I just don't. Like, it rarely happens that I have a thought that I want to communicate to, you know... I don't want to fire up the Twitter servers owned by Musk. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Muskara.

[01:38:35] It just makes me sad. Like, the whole thing just makes me sad. But, yeah, drop us an email. I mean, we're on Patreon. I need to do a few videos there too. I do miss engaging with Asim's, like, dad jokes on Twitter though. Because before you came on, Amrita, we were talking about Obsession and that actress getting cast as rogue. And he instantly said, Prem rogue. And I lost my shit. I completely lost my shit. And so, I miss Asim's dad jokes.

[01:39:03] But we do that on the podcast rather than on Twitter. Yeah, yeah. And plus our WhatsApp group is just constantly filled with my stupid remarks. But, yeah, the other thing you can do is send us a voice note. If it's under a minute, tell us your name. Tell us, like, either your thought or your question. And we can play it on the show. Especially if it's interesting. Not, like, long tangents and theories. That's not great. But something that can actually create, like, you know, some talking points. Where can people send us voice notes? On Instagram?

[01:39:33] They can drop us an email in a voice code on upodcasting at gmail.com. I don't know if Instagram does that. I'm not hip enough to understand. Yeah, yeah. Instagram DMs. You can DM us at Instagram. Well, our handle is at khandanpodcast. Yeah, so do that. And then we'll be back with those voice notes. And, inshallah, English babu desi me. One day. One day.

[01:40:02] Oh, we run out of time now. God. Gonna have to learn from the comments. Turn on. Get. Get. Get input. Get.