Ep 261- Arth - 80s Dhamaka Serires

[00:00:00] Dhamaka Dhamaka My name is Blackhandan Where you stand, you start from the line from the line You've never been kissed Hi and welcome to a new episode of Khandaan Podcast

[00:00:27] My name is Asim Burni and I'm joined with my lovely co-host Amrita and Sujoy Hey Amrita, hey Sujoy Hey everybody Hello We are continuing our 80s Dhamaka series And this week we are talking about Arth Guys, we are veering into the art world Are you ready? We are ready, but how nervous are you, Asim?

[00:00:51] I think a lot of people are very like wondering what will happen when Asim and art movies collide Parallel cinema collides And I don't think it's going to be that painful to be honest guys It's going to be fine We're going to hold each other's hands We're going to get through this Especially when the quality of this Like in the 80s art movement was so high Yeah When it's a well made, well written, well acted movie

[00:01:20] Like the one that we will be talking about Yeah, it's absolutely not only a painless but also a joyful process to re-watch this And I have to say guys, I watch a lot of like what you would call art movies I just don't watch any Indian ones Yeah, yeah That's basically it I watch like Italian ones I watch Swedish ones I watch all of these weird ones Basically when I was growing up We had one cinema in town And they had like some arts council funding

[00:01:50] So they could put on movies every week But they would not be American movies They would be like Italian movies They're really small movies that nobody's ever watched And because I was in a small town There was literally nothing else to do except to go to that cinema So every Friday we would show up and watch these really unknown artsy movies So I do enjoy artsy movies, I just don't watch Indian ones Yeah Not like my people being all distressed

[00:02:20] Yeah, because the desi solution is just punching, right? That's how you deal with your problems Who's talking in a sofa here? So yeah Let's start with a summary maybe Amrita What is Arth about? Arth is sort of loosely based on Mahesh Bhat's affair with Parveen Babi Which is a well that he has returned to repeatedly over the course of his career As a director and a producer

[00:02:50] So it's about a young woman called Pooja Who discovers that her director husband is having an affair with Kavita Who is the biggest star of her time And the fallout of both those relationships Yeah, I think it's interesting when you say it's a well that he's gone to a lot of times So he's And we have to add like

[00:03:20] Not only as a director, but sometimes as a writer, sometimes as a producer, right? Yeah So Wo Lam Hai was based on this, right? What else? I even think Phir Theri Kahaani Aadai was kind of based on that Yes I think a movie called Janam was also based on that No idea I saw this on Wikipedia And a few others probably, right? Like if I'm not mistaken, what else has he done? Any others? No, that's it? Three, four times, right?

[00:03:50] Yeah I don't know how accurate it is, but my fuzzy memory thinks Like a lot of subplots in the TV series Swabhiman That was also kind of inspired from a lot of what Arth is and his sort of affair with Parveen Bhabi I was also like reading up on Wikipedia and like his biography and stuff like that And this relationship lasted six months apparently Left like a big impression

[00:04:19] But having just watched Parveen Bhabi, I get it Like that would leave an impression Jenny is fire Shall we? I'm gonna be relying on you Amrita and probably Sujoy more on this Because I was watching this movie and I have never seen Arth I didn't know I mean, I know the title I know it's biographical

[00:04:46] I know it was a big kind of like I wouldn't say hit, but it was like an important movie Of that era And I didn't want to read any summary of Wikipedia I was like, I just want to go in blind and see what's happening exactly But can you guys place this movie and maybe the parallel cinema movement And this movie within the parallel cinema movement in the 80s Like where is it? What does it do? What's happening in that era?

[00:05:15] This is from my 80s memory, right? I'm Growing up in the 90s I was born in the 80s And this movie released before my time But I think the music of this movie sort of lingers on through the 90s and the 2000s Everybody who was introduced to the world of Jagjit Singh was introduced to this album in a way

[00:05:41] And that's why I think that plays a big part in the relevance of Earth And as far as the 80s, 90s Parallel cinema movement I think there were a lot of other filmmakers like Govind Elani And what's his name? Shyam Benegal Mahesh Bhatt These were the three big ones that were doing a lot of art cinema

[00:06:09] Or propelling the art cinema movement in that time So There was like a big funding also available from NFDC Which is the National Film Development Council And that sort of pushed these stories That it wasn't necessarily profit oriented in a way They You know, collaborated with the big theater actors

[00:06:37] Of that era who were, you know, very popular And they were producing these movies Movies like Mirch Masala Oh, Salim Langade Pe Matro, Ek Doctor Ki Moth Even like Jaane Bido Yaaro It would be considered as a star-lalala movement Right Amrita, were you watching these movies then? As you know Speaking of which, like I would just quickly add I have never seen Earth before this Oh, you hadn't seen it? No Interesting

[00:07:06] I wanted to find out why No, actually, I've seen it But like in bits and pieces And I wanted to find out why And It was primarily because It's an A-certificate movie And as a kid, I did not have access to it Yeah I do think there was this idea Of these artsy movies Or like Gandhi movies, you know Like there was like stuff going on It could be or something It's not family friendly in some way or the other No, but it's interesting because watching this now

[00:07:36] And I'm like, what was the Gandhi Baat in this movie? Like what is there that's shocking? What is there that's, you know, different? Or yeah, scandalous that kids wouldn't watch it and stuff like that And I'm assuming that there's just the idea that grown-ups have sex I think that's probably the only thing, right? Yeah There is also one very strong line that's Shabana tells to

[00:08:04] Smita Patel in this movie That we'll probably speak about later Or do you want to just say it? No, no, go for it now It's that one line that keeps echoing Bistar mein randi ka rupdaran karna chahiyeh And as a teenager, I heard a lot of my friends just saying it wildly And I never knew the reference Which movie is this from? And then like eventually when I watched it And I was like, oh, it is from Earth Okay Yeah

[00:08:34] Interesting Amrita, what about you? Where does Earth stand for you? So, Earth When I first watched it I didn't really think of it as being like parallel cinema as such Because it I mean, I just watched it without any context whatsoever The first time I watched it Because it was just playing on Dhu Dhasan or something And that's how I watched it And It's just such a good movie Yeah

[00:09:02] It's a story that sort of Takes you along And has like a beat to it I think when a lot of people talk about art cinema They are talking about something like All We Imagine Is Light Which is like a very, you know Like it doesn't really pay attention to pacing necessarily Yeah It's about, you know It's about events unfolding or characters unfurling, etc.

[00:09:30] But Earth is very much a plot-oriented film Like there is a specific arc for each of the characters It's very easy to follow Even if you are not a student of cinema And you could be like a, you know A member of the ordinary audience And you would still be able to understand What this movie is trying to do

[00:09:59] And what it's trying to portray And I think that's what the parallel cinema Of this Of the 80s in particular The 70s as well But the 70s and the 80s I would say together Movies by, you know Like people such as say Money Call Or Sayid Mirza Or just these These are Sham Benegal, you know These are like very accessible movies Actually

[00:10:29] And Mahesh Bhatt is a very Strange stepchild of that movement In that he very much made that kind of movie In the 80s But as the 80s progressed He became more and more commercial And by the time the 90s rolled around He had sort of made that trip So far into commercial cinema

[00:10:58] And he wasn't a very good commercial filmmaker By the way He was just a terrible commercial filmmaker If you've seen any of his commercial movies Later on But I believe by the time that he was making For example, Duplicate With Shah Rukh Khan in the 90s He was barely on the sets He was apparently directing Something like 20 films at a time

[00:11:26] He had an army of assistant directors Who were mainly doing the work While he was sort of giving them Mentorship or something Vibes Vibes-based directing Yes It was terrible It was absolutely terrible And he was a functioning He was a barely functioning alcoholic It was just It was just bad scenes all around So A lot of the things that you see in Earth

[00:11:56] Especially the parts that are very Not very complimentary to Inder The character of Inder Malhotra That's actually very true And I will say this for Mahesh Bhat He might be a cretin But he is a very self-aware Yeah You know Like he's never pretended to be better than he actually is Yeah, he is not whitewashing in his own story Yeah Like he's like I'm a very unlikable person

[00:12:25] But for some reason These two women love me Yeah It's interesting Because I feel like Mahesh Bhat The more he made movies The more disdain he had for commercial cinema And that really showed In his approach In the way he's making cinema Like he knew that he was just Catering slop to the masses And he was like This is what you want Then hey, have it You know And I think he

[00:12:55] One of those directors that pushed that idea to its limits Like you know Like you know when he's making a zakam And then after that he makes kartoos He knows what he's doing Right? So yeah He's a fascinating character And he's one of those guys that I think A lot of times I appreciate him talking And listening to him on an interview Or giving his thoughts about things

[00:13:22] And I actually enjoyed the vast majority of his movies But the ones that he has put his heart in Those are actually decent movies Like Zaham and you know this one Even like I think back in the day Nam and stuff like that There were movies that he made that there was like Yeah, there was something behind it Yeah, he made Saransh after this The movie that launched Anupam Kher And I remember watching that movie Like as a kid Even like it talks about grief

[00:13:49] And this whole system crumbling this one man down It was oh so good Or Daddy Like you know that was Was that Pooja Bhat's debut? I think so yeah Yeah and she was so good in it You know But even in terms of like commercial cinema Like he had like good things in there Like he did, he directed Aashiki Which was a massive hit But again, he knew that was a very commercial Commercial project right?

[00:14:19] I don't know, I love you Sadak Sadak, you know Even like low grade like Najayas You know that movie with Ajay Devgan But I really liked that movie when it came out You know, like it was like It was a good one So he's done like a lot of work And but yeah, there was this I think maybe Was this disdain of alcohol Like you know commercial cinema Or alcoholism or whatever you want to call it Whatever reasons That it wasn't there anymore

[00:14:48] The quality wasn't there anymore The other thing that he was really good at Was also just launching new talent Like the names that you know Have been launched through him Or through his movies are very, very long And also just a very keen eye on music I think even in his worst Like we were talking about Duplicate He wasn't there, the soundtrack was still a banger Yeah We still remember that movie for a soundtrack

[00:15:16] But yeah, getting back to earth here I have to say I was watching this movie And every cliche I had of my mind Of 80s Parallel cinema Was in this movie pretty much With the biggest one that you know Kulmushan Kurbanda is very sexy And all women, hot women want to sleep with him Which also seems like a very 80s kind of thing for him Like I don't know

[00:15:46] What is the secret here of Kulmushan? Like why is he so hot? I don't know It just feels so regular in a way It's not glamorous That's why it works I don't know It feels very lived in Like he's the hot uncle In the neighborhood or something But it's weird that you know Everybody wants a bachcha with Kulmushan

[00:16:15] You know Yeah, that's another very interesting thing And when we think about this idea Because lately we've been having a lot of these conversations About you know Companies cutting DEI And you know Equality and diversity And progress has gone too far And watching this really made me think of it That these people are all liberal, right? Like these are probably the progressives of the 80s Yeah But you look at their values now And they're all very square

[00:16:45] They all just want to get married And they all want to get kids And they all want a house And it's this, you know They're drinking together And they're kind of like, you know Coolish people But still like My moral compass and theirs is like already much more progressive And much different than theirs is, right? So it's so idea that This idea that you know in the 90s We were all cool in the 90s, yeah? There was no racism There were no problems But there was

[00:17:12] And this conversation of progressive ideas Of equality All of this still needs to keep getting pushed Otherwise we end up looking like old farts in the 80s It's just like one of those thoughts I had with watching That oh, this is progressive But it's actually very, very square There's nothing, you know It's very base level for me at least I don't know Amrita What did you think about that? Like, don't they look like square liberal uncles to you?

[00:17:43] I think for its time It was probably very revolutionary You know, the fact that She doesn't take her husband back Yeah, yeah Everybody has the worst advice for her You know, like just give him time He'll come back I was like, do you want him back? Like he's been just like Banging another woman He's like being drunk He's falling down drunk He's like abusing her He like tries to beat her Yeah He's just awful

[00:18:11] Why would you want him back? But yeah But then she also is like to a lot of moments She's like, yes, please come back I'll forgive you It's all forgiven And it also is just like In the 80s, I feel like, you know Women, you have to work in a hostel Like live in a hostel You couldn't get a job Like all of these things are in there too, right? Which is not easy And then her hostel friend is just like Well, why don't you just become a hooker?

[00:18:40] And you're just like What kind of people are you finding here? But then also It's just really interesting to me When you watch Pooja's character And she talks early on about being an orphan Yeah Yeah And then, you know Like how she depends on Inder in the beginning To provide for her And she talks about how, you know

[00:19:09] His instability has turned her life unstable And when she talks about Inder She talks about him less as her husband And more as her guardian You know Like she's talking about like How he needs to provide a house for her And like take care of her And you know, like Give her with all Give her like the izzat ki zindagi That she wants

[00:19:39] And it's a You know, like In the middle I remember for a great many years I was very upset about the fact that she Turns down Rajkiran And she Chooses to be like a single woman Rather than, you know Explore that other side of her But then what I realized In the intervening years Is that What you are really seeing Is what

[00:20:06] She says to Rajkiran's character At the end Which is that she has now become An actual complete person Who doesn't depend upon Another person To provide her With the things that she needs Out of life She doesn't need either Inder or Raj To give her a home Or a family Or a sense of self-worth She finds all of those things by herself

[00:20:35] And she actually does become A fully actualized human being And that is pretty revolutionary In my opinion Especially from like 1982 Or whenever this movie came out What I also found interesting Is that I never felt there was any love Between Pooja and Inder Except When he buys her a house They have sex together And that almost feels transactional Yeah

[00:21:04] So that was kind of an interesting thought Because there is What you're saying He's basically a provider for her Even to the point where He leaves her for Kavita He's still providing the house He's still like If you need money I'll send it to you But neither of them Neither Inder, neither Pooja Ever feel that they're in love Or anything like that, right? Also this time around When I was watching That particular scene Where like you know

[00:21:33] He's got her the house And I was watching Earth After a great many years And I don't know If you guys remember Have you guys watched Rosemary's Baby? I've read the book I've not So there's a scene in Rosemary's Baby Where they've just found their new apartment It's their new New York apartment And they have sex on the floor Of their bare apartment And obviously it's like

[00:22:03] A lot more graphic Than it is in this one But for some reason Like I felt like That scene With the empty apartment The corridor And then you know The way that they sort of Interact with each other It really gave me vibes Of Rosemary's Baby And like that particular sex scene From Rosemary's Baby Which I think I need to check

[00:22:31] When Rosemary's Baby came out But I'm pretty sure It came out before that Yeah, it feels definitely like One of those movies that came out earlier And I Yeah, it came out in like 1968 Yeah And I genuinely feel like That was a reference For Mahesh Bhatt In that particular scene And also I think Cassavetes is one of those directors

[00:23:00] That you can see that Mahesh Bhatt was probably watching Right? This is the kind of movies that he's watching And then you probably want to You know, incorporate that in your own storytelling Consciously or subconsciously I mean, with Mahesh Bhatt you never know His plagiarism became more and more blatant The further he got along So, you know, it might be kind of a subdued version of it Yeah What did you think, Sujoy, of Inder and Pooja's relationship? It's interesting

[00:23:28] As you said, they are codependent in some ways But also Inder is clearly the provider And what I found was like Pooja has found out about the relationship And he's trying to convince Inder to come back But then she reaches out to Kavita And pleads to her Saying that she has nobody in the world except for Inder Like she's extremely lonely in that position

[00:23:58] She's lonely in the world And she does not know about the world So she has been In some ways, like She has not been her own woman And I think that the whole story arc is about her Finding her own way out And into the world And finding her place in the world And that's very, very interesting to me I don't feel like Inder gets a redemption arc in the end

[00:24:28] Which is again, like As we said earlier That Mahesh Bhatt did not whitewash Inder Malhotra In his own story And that's also interesting Because we find people who are You know, autobiographical Often sort of glaze over You know, details such as that Are you talking about the Roshans? The Roshans? Yes Sanju All sorts But yeah

[00:24:58] I found that interesting Very much so I think also she won quite She won the Filmfare Award for Best Actress Shaban Azmi When this movie came out And there were actually the 84 Filmfare Awards So this got quite a bit of critical acclaim The other thing that I also found interesting Is this idea of like Sometimes the artsiness of it becomes very, very In your face It's when Especially like Rohini Hattaganna

[00:25:28] Hattangadi Hattangadi Rohini Hattangadi comes in as the poor maid And the movie is like Rich or poor, our problems are the same You know Also they show like there is a clear class divide between the two Yes Which I found interesting Yeah I mean I've never had a maid I'll tell a personal story for me

[00:25:57] From our family My mom is like one of the nicest people I mean I know it's my mom Obviously I'm going to be biased But she's incapable of Being Creating that hierarchical thing that we have in Desi culture When with anybody that's working So because she hasn't lived in Pakistan Whenever she goes back to Pakistan She treats everybody like her child So when people are like Coming in to clean the house

[00:26:26] Or like rickshaw drivers and stuff like that She gets really uncomfortable She's not able to She gives them too much money And she'll be like Giving food But in Pakistan There's this idea of No, no, no You have to treat them badly Otherwise they'll forget themselves And my mom is incapable of doing that So she gets like Scolded by everyone around her That stop doing that You're spoiling our maids And things like that But seeing it here You know like

[00:26:55] The movies I watch We watch like Where like The cleaners and the maids Are like part of the happy-go-lucky family And we're not going to But here there's this Stark reality Like you know Even when they're sleeping in the apartment They're sleeping on the floor In the middle of the things And for me it was It was like It kind of like Hit me in a real way Because movies don't show that anymore In that way, right?

[00:27:24] So it's just kind of a thing that I mean you guys probably have maids And things like that in India, right? I've not lived in Pakistan to Have that kind of situation But it was just an interesting way To see it that way That even again Liberal modern people Do have that hierarchical structure Of you know, sleep on the floor Yeah Yeah, we My friends and I Have this conversation all the time

[00:27:54] Not like my friends Who are like From India And have lived in India their whole lives But like my friends who Say Grew up elsewhere Or have like moved back to India, etc. And we talk quite a bit about like How we treat our staff Versus how Say like older people in our families Would treat staff And Suddenly turns Amindars Yes

[00:28:23] And it hasn't changed really Like there's like nothing that's changed And I've said this before I've never been so conscious Of the social hierarchies As I have been since I moved back to India And I would have never Like when you don't live in India full time You don't really see it as much But when you're the person That's paying the salary You're the person who's the head of the household

[00:28:52] I live by myself So you know like I'm the head of my household And the way that people Daffer to you And the way that they treat you Because they know that you're signing their paycheck It's honestly Pretty gross And it doesn't matter How I might Behave differently From say the people around me It's

[00:29:20] So ingrained in the cultural system That they themselves Are not willing To accept anything Even if I offer it Of my own free will So for example I have two women that like work for me And they do like very different things And neither one of them will step into my house With their shoes on And I'm like I have like an entire little area Where like you know

[00:29:50] Everybody keeps their shoes When they enter my house It is an Indian home So you know You don't step into my house With your You know you don't walk around my house With your shoes on But there's a place Where everyone can leave their shoes I have like a designated area And it's the same for me And my friends And whoever comes to my house But no matter what I say No matter what I do These women will insist on leaving their Their sandals At the end of the

[00:30:18] Not even outside my house They leave it like down the corridor From my house And then walk barefoot To my door And then enter it It's some sort of cast thing I think But it is horrendous And I loathe it But yeah Yeah it's really weird Like because I mean I have a cleaning lady That comes in Here in London But that's not the relationship

[00:30:46] I have at all It's pretty much like service provider here Yeah yeah So it is weird to see it Like shown on screen In such a real manner Yeah And like obviously If you can get somebody to help out You obviously want to do that Right? And I think even like a lot of times now With a lot of discussions that are happening about You know, oh it's so expensive to live in Europe In America And India Back in Pakistan

[00:31:16] We used to have everybody take care of our needs You know, and a lot of people are going back Because of that So you are availing of the services that are there But there's something inherently icky about it Yes Yes You are basically just saying that Oh labor is cheap Yeah And therefore I Instead of them being the cheap labor In the United States Or the UK or the EU Because they are immigrants And therefore you know, they are getting treated differently

[00:31:45] They suddenly realize that they would much rather Exploit than be exploited And therefore They would like to go back home And exploit some poor people for their cheap labor And it is gross It is just Yeah I'll quickly point out about the Rohini Hatangari story arc Of why it still sticks in my mind Is two things It's very like

[00:32:15] Upfront about the normalization of domestic violence in that class Like the moment she meets her And also Baai is always referred to as Baai She does not get a name in the story Yes And when she meets Pooja She just tells Mera marad mujhe marta hai Oh, humare yaha ye sab chalta hai And it's so normalized But also she tells about her ambition Right? Her grandma was a baai

[00:32:45] Her mom was a baai She's a baai But she wants something better for her child And that whole arc about her wanting her child to get the English education And she saves money for that But her marad stole that And that's why she ends up stabbing him And then she confesses So that vicious cycle somehow gets broken But at the cost of her own life It's so tragic in a way Like

[00:33:14] And let me tell you something Like, it's 40 years later And I had the exact same conversations With both the women That worked for me Like one of them left her husband Because he used to beat her And beat her children And she saves every single penny So that she can send her kids to school And make sure that they have You know, a white collar career Yeah And the other woman

[00:33:43] Is still with her husband But you know, like He steals all her money He beats her It's an abusive environment And she puts up with it So that her kids won't have a broken home And it's, you know It's the exact same story Nothing's changed That's crazy See, this is what Mahir Bhatt wanted Us talking about, you know Women's and capitalism

[00:34:12] This is all this woke nonsense He gives us, you know Let's talk a bit about Chavana Oh, sorry About Smita Patel You haven't done that yet Oh my god, yes Yeah, because she I think what's interesting about this movie Is how it kind of completely Drops us into the action Both times in a way Like, we're talking about Inder and Pooja's relationship Immediately they're like Oh, this is Tuesday

[00:34:41] Like, you know A whole thing happened They've been living a whole life And this is just their Tuesday, right? And the same thing with Kavita's character You just Suddenly It's revealed that Inder, when the camera spans around She's just jokingly asking Is there somebody else living there Or with you? And he's just clearly lying You know Like, the worst liar in the world Yeah Camera pans and you see Oh, he is with another woman And they've been having this relationship

[00:35:11] For a long time apparently, you know And there's never this idea of How these people met How they kind of fell in love How they decided to cheat on each other It's just Tuesday, you know And I think that's also Kind of a very refreshing take On how these stories Are being told It almost feels like A theatre play to a certain degree, right? So I found it interesting That we don't really hear Kavita speak For the longest time

[00:35:40] She's just She's just this Unattainable figure And the I mean, you see flashes of her You know, like when she's packing While he's lying very badly on the phone Or like when she's on the set Or, you know, things like that But you get an uninterrupted view of her For the first time When you see the ad that he's shot Where, you know, you just see her

[00:36:09] And it's such a Like it's a terrible ad It's a terrible ad I am on Dalit Tahil's side Where is the product? Where is the product in there? It's a It's a horrendous ad But then she is so beautiful And she's almost like a painting come to life And my God, like, you know, like I know she's supposed to be Parveen Barbie And obviously nobody can be Parveen Barbie But, um

[00:36:39] But I mean Barbie, by the way In 1982, 83 Like she was Still a huge star It wasn't that, you know, she hadn't Had that, you know That steep fall into Anonymity that she did And later on She was still You know, everyone was Still talking about her But Smita has This quality about her

[00:37:09] Like she's just so Sexy And it's not a very like obvious sexiness But she's just One of those women that you just Can't take your eyes off Yeah It's a It's an insanely great piece of casting To have Shabana Shabana Shabana, by the way It's It's always hilarious to me That Shabana Always got cast as the saintly

[00:37:39] Sanskari wife In so many movies Starting with like Amal Akbar Anthony Where she's like, you know, very Reluctantly a hustler But actually she's a Sanskari girl who just wants to marry Like Shabana Azmi was like You know, she was a hellion When When she was When she was young And she still is To be honest And she was just so Like, you know, she just like Cut her

[00:38:09] Cut her entire swath through Through Bombay Like, you know, she was dating all these Really famous men And then she was Khaifi Azmi's daughter She was just like, you know She was quite somebody But she's just so great at being Like the Sanskari woman It's always hilarious to me Also, I think with Smita Patel It's interesting because

[00:38:38] Like, in the same year She's pretty much done Shakti And she's done Namakhalal Like these big commercial hits, right? But She always felt like One of those heroines That had like one foot In the barrel Art kind of scene But I think There's not a moment where When she's playing Kavita That you would say Oh, she's not one of the biggest stars In India at the moment Like, she can sell that idea Really well, right?

[00:39:07] I don't know how well she could sell it In the 80s I don't know what her standing was Because you are It is the era of the Rekhas And the Parveen Babis And all that So she was kind of like The odd one out, I guess, right? But in terms of performance And kind of stature She can sell that idea really well I don't know, I don't know I mean, Amita Patel And you could see Smita Patel On his hairy, hairy chest

[00:39:36] So I don't know what you're talking about, Asim Also, she has one of the most famous rain songs in Bollywood Yeah And she, I think Smita was like a huge star There's no two ways about it I remember when she died And I was very young when that happened Or like, I don't know I don't think I remember her dying Because I think that happened when I was very, very little

[00:40:05] But I do remember For years after People were still talking about it And I remember as a child thinking Wait, so she was hooking up with Raj Bamba? Of all people? Like, why? It just like, made no sense Because That's like A platinum tier woman Like, my God And Raj Bamba has bronze too

[00:40:34] I know It's not even copper Is that plastic medal you give like? Oh God Any Raj Bamba fans in the house? Make yourself visible She died in 86 Age 31 Yeah I was like Too young for that But I do remember Like, even when I hadn't seen anything That she had made I remember people talking about Smitha Pathhill

[00:41:04] And for years afterwards Like Stardust and Filmfare And all of those magazines Would talk endlessly about her And her tragic story So IMDB is saying She passed away Due to complication after childbirth Yeah I thought it was also always cancer Maybe I was just like I thought it was Oh, okay I wasn't... It was very unexpected Yeah

[00:41:32] And I think that's kind of The reason why Pratik Babar got so much support When he made his debut Because there was just so much goodwill For Smitha Pathhill It wasn't about Raj Babar at all I don't think anybody was thinking of him As like, oh, Raj Babar's son Everyone was like Smitha Pathhill's son You know, is making his debut And he is a fantastic actor Just like his mom Right

[00:42:00] Raj Kiran can't catch a break, right? Yeah Nobody wants to be with Raj Kiran They've dubbed him Like, you know They murder him Like, dude can't catch a break He's such a good guy in this But it reminds me of an Instagram reel That I recently saw Somebody... You know, one of those sketches When one guy plays all the characters So it's like This guy is like Why doesn't anybody love me?

[00:42:28] And then this other guy just turns up And like, peeks in Not you! And then it's pretty much that Like, Raj Kiran is literally why Andrew Tate makes movies Like, reels This is the content farm Good guys never win Exactly Don't be a beta Be an alpha like Inder Just drink and cut your feet And abuse women This is really a...

[00:42:57] Again, like we're talking about maids And things haven't changed And the male idea of What is a good guy And who gets the girl Is also kind of explained here Like, Raj Kiran doesn't get a shot at all You know? I felt bad for him I did laugh at the moment Where he finally gets his big break And he just comes to tell her He's become a star He bought a car He wanted to be a star He became a star

[00:43:27] And it still didn't work out for him That's fine Fight for who? Raj Kiran I'm sure he will be happy in life Yeah, I don't know It was just... After just watching Kars And then watching it here I was like... I'm almost feeling bad for Raj Yeah, the 80s weren't kind on him No, no, they weren't I think he dies in Varis as well, right? Oh, bless him

[00:43:57] You guys talk about... Sujo, you were talking about the music being a big part of this Yeah, talk a little bit about the soundtrack maybe What are kind of your favourite? So, the soundtrack of Earth Yeah, all bangers Written by Kefi Azmi Most of it And composed by Jagjit Singh Like... There is... I think... If I'm not wrong

[00:44:26] The Earth album was always not available as one cassette But it was paired with something else Which I can't remember probably It was Sat Sat Which is also another Jagjit Singh album And all the songs in that The side A, side B, repeat You know, you used to play And this had... Which also has another The same melody is used in... Tere Khushbu Me Base Khat And then you have...

[00:44:56] Which is a song for the ages That's probably my favourite Amrita, this soundtrack is a banger for you Yes, I mean you can't... You can't overstate how... How... Important... Tum Itna Jo Musker A Rehe Ho Was to the Ghazal scene In 80s India I think like... Like every uncle... Like you know that one singing uncle

[00:45:26] That you used to have at like your parents' parties Like I think every one of those uncles Had a rendition Like a version of that song I... Like it's a genuinely beautiful, beautiful song And... Kefi Azmi is just like... You know, like one of the... The great poets of his age And we don't talk enough about him Because he wasn't... He wasn't that big of a...

[00:45:56] Film lyricist He... You know, he chose to be a poet Rather than all of that stuff But... Just... If he had never written another song That song would have like... Made him famous Um... But... Apart from... Tum Itna Jo Musker A Rehe Ho I think... Is probably my other favourite From this album... Like it's just a gorgeous, gorgeous song How did you feel about the song, Sasan?

[00:46:26] Um... It's not my thing... Like it's... I never really... This is like one of those songs about infidelity That you were talking about Yeah, I mean this is... This is literally all the cliches in my mind About this kind of thing This is not my thing guys This is like... And I... I think I was very nice Until now But now that we're getting into The end of the soundtrack And... The end of the episode And we're talking about the soundtrack It's fine I would run away

[00:46:55] If somebody was either singing this Or playing this This is not my thing at all Give me... You know... Uchi hai building No, give me... Give me Uchi hai building Give me... 9-11 I'm who I am Yeah It's... I get it It's like very like slow But... The way the song is picturised

[00:47:23] Is exactly what I imagine the song to be It's just like... It's interesting though Because it is a parallel cinema Or art cinema of that era So... Incorporating songs would be difficult In this aesthetic Yeah So they consciously make the choice That the only singer in the story Would be the one singing this In a party sort of an environment So... Ratskyrna obviously appears like... An hour in into the story

[00:47:53] So until then you get no songs at all And then you get the three songs that are in the movie I think... I think the first one is That happens when in the party Shavana gets drunk And she like totally blows up And confronts Inder and Kavita And then... I think... Is at the birthday The birthday song And then... Last one is Jukki Jukki Sinasar

[00:48:22] Which is at Siddharth Kaak's And Aparna's house So... It's interesting The picturisation Obviously they have to adapt to the environment Like nobody else can be playbacking Other than the singer of the story Yeah... And maybe it's also just The added level of Jagjit Singh singing it That as level... You don't like Jagjit Singh do you? It's not my thing It's not my thing And it's not like I don't like Meaningful songs or slow songs

[00:48:51] You hate them But all of this together Is just too much for Aasim I can't handle it It's just like the uncle-ness of all of it Is too much uncle for me And I cannot handle it Like my inherent rebel Is like... I don't want to do this I don't want to be here So... I get it But it's not my bag

[00:49:21] Speaking of Urdu and poetry And all of that though This is an era that we At the beginning of the 80s We said Kadir Khan would heavily feature in 80s Because he's sort of the fabric through which The dialogues of the 80s is pretty much Kadir Khan But I think Even though this is like Prose and conversational in a way It's not necessarily filmy conversation I think the dialogue in this movie

[00:49:50] Is still like very, very cinematic And very filmy still The one scene that I have chosen When that really Sort of jumped out for me Was the scene where Inder has to confess to Pooja That he has an affair, right? And he says like Kuch samaj me ne ara Mera kaleja pht jayega

[00:50:18] Main agar tumse ye nahi kata hum So he has to confess it to her That he's been in love with Kavitha And it's such a Interesting way to write that line And I think the writing here is top notch Yes Yes, there is this scene where You know the final confrontation between Smita Patil and Shabana Azve Where Kavitha is trying to justify All the things that have happened

[00:50:48] Yeah She says Mujhe inder chahe tha tumhara pati nahi Mujhe apna ghar basana tha tumhara ghar thornha nahi It's again like such a It's such a It's such a clear cut way of explaining Yeah Why people sometimes do shitty things Because they're just so focused on themselves Yeah

[00:51:14] That they find it very easy to ignore The consequences of their actions on other people Yeah And it's a very It's a very It's just such a very It's a very small dialogue Like it wasn't a very like bhaari But khamli kind of dialogue It wasn't like dialogue baazi It was just a very simple way of putting it But so effective I've got another one here

[00:51:44] When like Pooja is trying to negotiate Basically within there saying You know, come back to me and stuff Mujhe nahi lagta tha Ek din mujhe tum piar karna chhod doge She says Jane aisa lagta hai ke mein yatim khanai pahunch kai wapas I was like What the hell did you just write? Oh my god Or the way when you know They're like negotiating their divorce Or their separation really

[00:52:13] And he's telling her things like You know, oh I'll You never think of yourself as being alone Because I'll take care of you And she says I'm so afraid You know And that's when she says The whole yatim khana like thing But she leads off by saying Like I'm so afraid And she's She's still Like you know, that transactional nature

[00:52:42] That Asim was talking about You know, of their relationship That sort of continues Till the end You know, like when Up until He comes back to her After Smita's Like Kavita's kicked him out And then he just shows up And he's just like Hey, I just got kicked out But like And he doesn't even lie about it There's no like Oh, like I've come to see the error of my ways

[00:53:11] He's literally like Yeah, so Kavita kicked me out So do you want to give this another go? Yeah Let's start afresh Yeah He's just very shitty Till the very end, you know Which again, like I said I really appreciate Mahesh Bhatt for not Whitewashing any of that But Right up until then And you see the difference In Shabana's

[00:53:42] Gaze As she Looks at him in that scene Versus all the other scenes Where she has looked at him Even when he came to get the divorce papers signed She was so happy to see him And in this one You can see that she's like Over it Yeah, and she says If I had done the same to you Would you have taken me back? It's such a... It's a classic line Like it's an all-time classic line

[00:54:14] I was gonna say I think it's also just the play on So many men Famous men that have done exactly what Inder wants to do, right? Be it Darminder Be it Salim Khan You know, so many men have actually You know, pretty much done that Where they had a second wife They kept the previous wife They just took care of her And you know, whatever happens in their private life Was swinging back and forth Who knows? But so many stories of at that time Where this was happening

[00:54:44] And probably still happens across the world, right? But I think for me The way Inder was also playing it The big confessional scene He was acting like a petulant child More than a man, right? Yeah Whereas I think Rajkiran And I think that's that discussion of masculinity again, right? Where Rajkiran is actually taking it like a mature human being You know, like okay, she does not want to be with me Let her live her life And he does it twice Whereas Inder

[00:55:13] He never even explains to her really well Why he's separating with her or anything like that It's just like, I just can't take it anymore, you know? Stella! And he's out Montoya, for favor! Such a niche reference, Sujai That nobody will know about In like three weeks time Yeah You have to be chronically online to get this reference

[00:55:43] To get that one So yeah, but I thought that was also kind of an interesting thing That how this was probably just reality, right? But yeah I'm so happy that I got that So proud of himself Absolutely Great Any final thoughts? Any scenes? I just... Yeah, go ahead Yeah, go for it I was just going to say that Smeeta Patel and Fuck, I'm bragging on the name now

[00:56:12] Shabana? Shabana Azmi That was my favorite scene Where they're at the end where they're together Because also just Because A, we're talking about the infidelity and all of it But it's also this paranoia and her disease Yeah When Shabana is kind of confronted in what of a state she is in And she doesn't attack her She's like, yeah, fine Yeah, I'm doing it And I'll stop doing I'll stop coming to your house I'll stop screaming

[00:56:42] I'll stop crying You know, all of these accusations Which just sound completely insane But for her, it's so real And she never kind of counters that You know That was also kind of a very powerful scene for me Sorry, Shabana I wrote down in my notes that Kabhi Alwita Na Kaina wants to be earth when it grows up You know The other random note is This features a long list of other actors

[00:57:11] Like Mazhar Khan is in there as Harish Dalit Kahil plays a character called Dilip Gulshan Grover is in there as Gulshan Which is funny Didn't even get a name They didn't even bother giving him a character name But the one thing that sort of broke the The aesthetic of the movie for me Like it was so tight But then Dina Pathak appears as Kavita's mother And I'm like, yeah This is a Rishikesh Mukherjee movie for me

[00:57:40] Because Dina Pathak is so integral to that aesthetic of Bollywood cinema Like Khub Surat or Golmal of Rishikesh Mukherjee So when Dina Pathak appears I'm like, nahi, I don't want Dina Pathak in this movie for some reason I love Dina Pathak but not in earth I also enjoyed all the 80s psychology thing Which is like, hey, this woman is a paranoid schizophrenic And she's

[00:58:09] Electric shock is the only driven And she's like, hallucinating about you So you should go by yourself and sit there We'll wait downstairs I'm neechai in here, you know Hilarious I was also shocked that Mazhar Khan resigned I was like, wait, he's his employee? I thought they were friends or something like that But I was like, wow, this is I really should No, I resigned from our friendship Yeah, I was like, this is a terrible terms of employment here That Mazhar Khan is signed on to, unfortunately

[00:58:39] And Siddharth Kaak and what's her name, Geeta Siddharth They are both Worst friends ever Like, they're the worst friends you can ever have Yeah I guess that's it for Arth I am really happy I watched it finally I will say the print is terrible I There's a lot of lines that I I even had trouble hearing exactly what they're saying There's no subtitles It's really tough to watch this movie

[00:59:09] And this is one of those movies that needs film preservation That needs kind of a mastering, like an upgrade print of it And it's a shame that that hasn't happened I have an Eagle release DVD of it That's how I watched it And it's okay It's much better than the YouTube print that is available I think the Eagle DVD is sort of uploaded on Aintuzhan as well So for people who want to watch through that Aintuzhan is not available to stream in India Yeah

[00:59:38] The DVD is probably the only better print that is available Which is a shame Because this needs a much better remaster This is probably one of those movies that If it probably gets a re-release in some like Small run in theatrical And that's probably the best way to watch it Because home viewing is very, very difficult for this one Yeah, we will have a good time when we try to find a way to watch New Delhi Times Yeah, yeah, we're going to be struggling

[01:00:06] I think it's a struggle for all of these like artsy kind of parallel movies, right? Amrita, where can people find you online? You can find me on Twitter and Blue Sky at AmritaIQ So Joy? You can find me on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, Blue Sky at 93K And you can find Khan Dan Podcast on all our socials at Khan Dan Podcast Do check out our YouTube channel, Khan Dan Podcast And more new stuff is dropping there So like, share, subscribe, all that

[01:00:36] Yeah, and if you are a Patreon listener You are getting these episodes quicker than the main feed and ad-free So that's really cool And you're also, it's a way to support us So, you know, join up at Patreon We might be doing something extra for Patreon too I'm just thinking about it But the schedule is very tight with these 80s movies Next episode, we're going to be talking about Nagina So, thank you for listening Drop us an email at youpodcastingatgmail.com

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