Ep 243- Barzakh Season Review

[00:00:11] [SPEAKER_06]: Hi, this is Asim. This is Sujoy. This is Amrita.

[00:00:18] [SPEAKER_06]: And you're listening to Khandaan, a Bollywood podcast about the three main Khans of the Hindi

[00:00:23] [SPEAKER_06]: film industry, Amir, Salman and Shahrukh.

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[00:00:48] [SPEAKER_06]: Hi, and welcome to a new episode of Khandaan Podcast. My name is Asim Berni and I'm

[00:00:52] [SPEAKER_06]: joined with my lovely co-host Amrita and Sujoy. Hey, Amrita, hi Sujoy.

[00:00:56] [SPEAKER_06]: Hey people. Hello.

[00:00:59] [SPEAKER_06]: I was hoping you guys could give like a decent hello after the debacle of last time but it's

[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_06]: still not happening, right? We're still...

[00:01:07] [SPEAKER_06]: What do you mean?

[00:01:10] [SPEAKER_06]: The rhythm is off. The rhythm is off, people. I think we need a break. I think we need

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_06]: We are talking about... So actually let's plug your Twitter handle too because that's where

[00:01:28] [SPEAKER_06]: all the amazing things are coming from, all the amazing thoughts and writing. So it's

[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_06]: blue magic boxes on Twitter, right? Yeah.

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And on Instagram also?

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Or on Instagram I'm just 60 followers who are my friends.

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, yeah. Good, good, good, good.

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_06]: So we are talking about Barzakh this episode. We had one episode where we just... I think

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_06]: we did... I think I watched two episodes or three episodes, you guys watched two of

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_06]: them. Emon, you always have amazing thoughts. At least, Amrita, you've been following

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_06]: Emon's work for a while, right?

[00:02:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. So we were like thinking about who we wanted on for Barzakh because it's...

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's an event, isn't it? Like whatever your feelings might be about it. And I think

[00:02:15] [SPEAKER_00]: we're going to have like a variety of opinions on this podcast as well as on Twitter and

[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_00]: elsewhere. But irrespective of that, it's been an event of the kind that we haven't seen

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_00]: in a while. So we wanted to do more than like the little drive-by discussion that we did.

[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And who better than Emon? So welcome, Emon.

[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_06]: Also, Amrita, you can say what you really feel. You also felt Asim is not Pakistani enough for

[00:02:46] [SPEAKER_06]: this one. Just admit it.

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it started with Asim being like, well, this isn't really my kind of thing.

[00:02:54] [SPEAKER_00]: It was being like, oh yeah, it was very nice.

[00:02:58] [SPEAKER_05]: That was a 100 and 100 Asim impression by the way.

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, well, I need a little bit more.

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_06]: Amrita was basically the gangs of Wasipur, Poormi, Meen.

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_06]: It's like bringing somebody who knows what they're talking about.

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, you made Amrita into Ramadhir Singh.

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Like Asim tried his best. But he did it for a fellow Asim, but it wasn't working.

[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_06]: Exactly. My incul- I guess it looks pretty.

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_06]: Which I feel is a good summary of the show.

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_06]: But let's get into it. We watched the first few episodes.

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_06]: I think we were generally quite positive, I think for the first few.

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_06]: And let's get into if that has changed. But I want to hear Emon's, your general thoughts

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_06]: on Barzakh now that the season has ended, it's kind of been a thing. What do you feel about it?

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I enjoyed it in parts. But like overall, I was just like, man, you're doing too much to say

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_01]: too little. Like this is not- it's such a weird comparison. But I don't know if you've seen

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_01]: this film Mother starring Jennifer Lawrence. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know that movie where you were just like, man, I get it.

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Like you're doing too much. Like you're doing a lot. I get it. I get the allegory.

[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And then it's just- and now it's going nowhere. Like now it's just like now we're

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_01]: just spinning around in circles. Yeah, so I enjoyed it in certain parts.

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I thought certain parts were really added on. But overall, I was just like,

[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_06]: man, I get it. It's since all of it. Sujoy Man, you tried. You tried your best.

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. So I passed the half halfway mark. So this series has six episodes. I watched till like my

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_05]: patients run out in like three and a half episodes. I really dragged myself into it. And unlike Emon,

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't get it. I really tried. I just don't get it. There was way too many things.

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Do you know when the trailer dropped and, you know, with series like this, when trailers

[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_05]: drop, they try to confuse you because there's lots of things happening. And then you-

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_05]: it raises your curiosity to go and explore the series. And then they peel off the layers

[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_05]: to reveal all the meanings of what each of the components mean. And three and a half episodes

[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_05]: in, I just didn't- wasn't able to go anywhere with it. So I was like- It was just a six episode trailer.

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Apparently it's like five hours, 40 minutes. And yeah, I've- yeah, it was done for me. I just

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_00]: did not get it. Abhidha? I liked it. Honestly speaking, I did. It wasn't

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_00]: as deep, I think, as a lot of the people online wanted it to be. So the- okay, there's like two

[00:06:18] [SPEAKER_00]: things. Like one is the actual series itself, which was fine. Like I liked it. It was pretty.

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I thought that it was trying to do a couple of different things that were interesting.

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And that was fine. And then you had Asim Basi on Twitter and his interaction,

[00:06:39] [SPEAKER_00]: his parasocial relationship with his fans, which was very cute. It's been a while since I saw

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_00]: a creator who was so open and vulnerable to the people that were reacting to his work.

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Like he really enjoyed the fact that so many people were really trying to read things into it.

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_00]: They were doing like the Twitter threads. They were doing like, you know,

[00:07:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Tumblr behavior from 2012. And he was really into it. And that was apparently what he was

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_00]: looking for as well, I think once he- you know, he had the series out there. So that was also

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_00]: kind of cute. But was it as serious as like people were trying to make it be? I don't

[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_00]: think so. Like I agree with him, but like I get it. But like it's fine. Yeah, I think even those

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_06]: people stopped tweeting after a while. They were like, people were like, oh, themes, you know.

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_06]: And then it's fine. Yeah, I'm a bit, it's, I am kind of, I enjoyed watching it. I have to say

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_06]: I have to enjoy watching it, but I would not be able to recommend this to anybody. Like I

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_06]: would not say go watch this. You have to watch this. You get, you get some insight into life

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_06]: about something out of it, except that it just visually amazing. Like it looks, the scenery is

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_06]: amazing. You know, for somebody who has not seen Pakistan more than Karachi and even then the

[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_06]: sanitized versions of Karachi, this is just like, wow, like we have this in Pakistan. It looks so

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_06]: amazing. The people are amazing. The costume design, the camera work, the production design,

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_06]: all of that is so pretty. But like this show, our Khandan podcast is built on certain tenants,

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_06]: like some, you know, philosophies. And one of those philosophies, at least my philosophy is

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_06]: that village life just sucks. And I think this show more than anybody show in recent time

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_06]: proves that to me that I would not be able to survive in a village where people are like

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_06]: you chanting at me like I'm a snake. I'm a dragon. What are you saying? Then you have like

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_06]: another thing is in village life because people are a bit behind, you know, they don't have internet

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_06]: connection. They have songs that only reach later. So now they're singing songs from the 80s.

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_06]: Then you know, you have Ate Fasram, you have a cook studio, but no, we're going all the way.

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Also, what was the point of that? Why was it happening?

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_01]: That I think

[00:09:14] [SPEAKER_01]: there's so many scenes where I was just like, what is the point of this? Like why are you doing this?

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. So yeah, I mean, those like that's my general thoughts about it. But I think let's

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_06]: break down because otherwise we'll just go all over the place like the show did.

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_06]: Let's break down some of the themes or try to untangle some of the themes of the show.

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_06]: So the ones that I found and you're welcome to add or, you know, take out any that you

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_06]: may have found. The main one I found was this idea of, you know, love not being able to fulfill,

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_06]: you know, love. And this is a theme obviously that is part of our culture, part of our poetry,

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_06]: part of our films about unfulfilled love. And I think this takes it to the next level of what

[00:10:02] [SPEAKER_06]: the toxicity is attached to that kind of one sided or unfulfilled love. So that's the story of Mehtaab

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_06]: and what's my time? Sorry, sorry, Jaafar Jaafar. Yeah, but I'm going to go straight. Was Mehtaab

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_06]: a witch? Is it what she was? No, she wasn't okay. What was the book she wrote like, is that a

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_06]: witch book or? Okay. So

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_01]: it's just that whenever you're playing how the book came to be, who wrote it, why did

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_01]: she meet up with the only one who had it? Like, no, no, no. I'm glad you're confirming it. I was

[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_06]: like, maybe this is some book they have in Pakistan, which is really important.

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, finish your thought because that was it. Yeah, I was just like, you know,

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_01]: that Rafiki as characters at the head, you know, who has like, Gulenza Makaev who has like these

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_01]: markings on the wall, other than the fact that like the fairies delivered the baby to him.

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_01]: What purpose did he serve? Like, why was he there? He was the babysitter for Harris.

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, no, he wasn't even the babysitter for Harris. He was the babysitter for Harris's

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_01]: friend, like that little girl who also in the large scheme of things did nothing in the show.

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_01]: So I was just like, why is this whole like section of story here? These people do nothing.

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_01]: They just act like they just come in and like the first two episodes, you think they will do

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_01]: something. So you keep waiting on them and you try to like decipher everything that's on his

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_01]: walls and everything. And then it just becomes very clear that he's not gonna do anything about

[00:11:38] [SPEAKER_06]: this. So you don't, you didn't, you didn't feel bad for Jaffer that, you know, his love

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_01]: got taken away by the elders. I love when like director play, directors play this game with me

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_01]: that I like to call is this theatrical or did you just underwrite this character?

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, am I, are you inspired by theater or is this character just not

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_01]: so like, you know, there is like this kind of force and performance but like nothing comes.

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_06]: This is what my criticism of Maya Meeb Sahib was by the way.

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_00]: That's because Asim was the only one who was trying to actually understand what Maya Meeb Sahib

[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_00]: meant. My God, this whole other issue entirely. Yeah, I like what Eman just said, like that's

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_00]: basically what I feel about the characters, which is that it's very difficult for you

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_00]: to connect emotionally with any of these characters, even the ones that have been like

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_00]: obviously done very wrong. But you still can't feel anything for them because they all,

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_00]: it's like they're like one step removed or like they're like concepts rather than like actual

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_00]: people and you can't really feel an emotional bond with a concept. So like there are flashes

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_00]: in the first few episodes where you think like, okay, like Jaffer is like a actually interesting

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_00]: character. He's, you know, he's a total bastard. But also he, you know, he carries the weight of

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_00]: this wrong that was done to him and his love and he's trying to like do something with it. And

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_00]: then like by the end of the series, you're just like, wait, what? Like why? What was that

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_00]: about? Like you just don't get like to the end of it and feel a sense of closure. And also at

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_00]: various points throughout the series, the characters just sort of, you know, they sort of go into this

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_00]: sort of Twitter social justice speak, you know, like this is one particular point where I think

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_00]: his dad's being absolutely vile. And I forget what it was, but it's something about his wife.

[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's, it's sort of unintentionally funny as well, but the way that it's shot because

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_00]: it's Fawad standing with his nose in the air like looking down at his dad, his dad stings.

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And then Fawad just like walks off saying stuff like the toxicity over here is too much for me

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_00]: to handle. And I'm just like, who talks like that? Like nobody talks like that in real life.

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And if you do talk like that to like a man who is like sitting on a mountainside in like,

[00:14:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Hanza, like what is wrong with this entire scene? Like I don't understand like why that scene exists

[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_00]: and like why what is Fawad's character's name? Sharia. Yeah. Right? Yeah. So why is like hot dude.

[00:14:53] [SPEAKER_06]: Hot dude, gay dude, sweater dude. That's Italian dude.

[00:14:57] [SPEAKER_01]: That's the other Fawad. This one. This one is Fawad.

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_00]: But like there was a point where like even the pretty wasn't enough. Like I started off the

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_00]: series being like, wow, these people are like really hot and then by somewhere like, you know,

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_00]: around the time that's a joy quit. It was like, these people are annoying. Like I don't feel

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_06]: attracted. Maybe that's a thing about just hot people in general. Like after

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_06]: Hey, you're just annoying.

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_06]: So joy.

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_06]: Any of like which themes stood out to you? Did that one work for you kind of the

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_06]: toxicity of the dad? Like how he's dealing with his children? Like

[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_05]: No, like, I don't know. It's all incomplete stories for me because I did not have the

[00:15:48] [SPEAKER_05]: patience to complete what was intended to complete the story. But by the sound of it,

[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_05]: you guys don't even have a complete picture of what happened. Like I did like the narrative

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_05]: or the visual narrative choice of demarcating the time jumps when the image squeezes into

[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_05]: the box aspect ratio or and when it's modern day, they why put it wide open.

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_05]: And as for the characters, I don't know. Like it felt like everybody of these, like the sons

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_05]: of the father generation, the village people, everybody's unlikeable. So like I'm not rooting

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_05]: for anyone to win here. Even if like you the failed love story, you see that in the

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_05]: first episode itself, right? The father character goes away to the city to earn his living. He

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_05]: comes back and sees in the girl that he loved that has passed away. But then nothing like that

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_05]: supposed to be the love story that ties everything together because that's the one that is promoted

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_05]: in the trailers as well, that you know, he's looking for the love in the afterlife or the

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_05]: purgatory. And you know, love still sort of lives on in a way. And you can be reunited. But

[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah, I did not feel like he's so bitter in the way that he portrays his love and he's

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_05]: angry at everyone. It just felt like I was not rooting for him by the time I left this series.

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_06]: And I think for me, the problem was also the actor playing Jafar is I had real trouble

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_06]: with him because I could not connect in him like, like you're saying, is it a writing

[00:17:29] [SPEAKER_06]: problem or is it a performance problem? I think he was going too loud to toxic in so many scenes

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_06]: that I could never connect with him being this for Lord and lover that, you know, lost his love of

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_06]: his life and it's destroyed. But then he just creates this path of destruction and is trying

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_06]: to punish these people of the village. And yeah, I just never knew I never knew this

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_06]: character because he became a rich man. But did he became a rich man because he married rich women?

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_06]: Or what did the clown business take off? Like he was also a clown for a while.

[00:18:07] [SPEAKER_01]: He was supposed to be mean, it's just one of those things because you're trying to do

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_01]: something now you're also having this conversation about man and the relationship

[00:18:16] [SPEAKER_01]: with land. So he's supposed to be imagined like a real estate developer. And that's

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_01]: conversation I imagine on Pakistan's like real estate industry, which is like

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_01]: toxic and removes people from their lands. And yeah, there's a theme of ecology versus

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_01]: capitalism in there. But again, it's not really explored. It's just like you were writing and

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_01]: this came to you while you were writing and you just did not like, you know, like you have

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_01]: to make a choice. I explored this or I just leave this here and put it on another project.

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_06]: And then it's also this duality where okay, like I think we're all we can you can all say that we're

[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_06]: you know, liberal liberal leaning people just generally. So we would then say, okay, capitalism

[00:19:01] [SPEAKER_06]: is bad ecology and these people but I hate the villagers too. Like I can't

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_01]: No, they were supposed to be they were supposed to be like

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_01]: unlike about it. Yeah, it's just like the whole number that character which is

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_01]: just a very interesting name to give to a character I feel because of the way this story has gone.

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_01]: He is also supposed like the whole like I did not for the life of me, I couldn't believe the

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_01]: conflict between the brothers. I was just like this is like at one point I just like laugh.

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I was like this cannot be you're not expecting me to believe that this man turned into like

[00:19:40] [SPEAKER_01]: this religious zealot because his brother left him as a child and took his money and like

[00:19:44] [SPEAKER_01]: just went to the city to work as a that is to be the leap like something else needs to

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_01]: happen between these two things for me to believe this is just like this hatred like you know,

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_01]: like a mob kind of person who like really believes in this book that he like swears by

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_01]: and I'm just like nothing not enough happens in the middle for me to believe that and I don't

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_01]: know if you watch the entire thing but that is the relationship that needs healing apparently

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_01]: apparently yeah between the number and like Jaafar and I'm like you did not set this relationship

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_01]: up that way like you I didn't care for their relationship or like if they ever if these two

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_01]: brothers ever make up like I didn't care but um that was supposed to be like the big conclusion

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_01]: to this that until like Jafar fixes like what hurt was caused by his brother like it will just

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_01]: like keep flowing through generations and I was like you just did not set up this relationship

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_06]: to be that important to me you just yeah and also what do these brothers stand for like you know

[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_06]: is it like ecology and capitalism getting like finding a balance or is just these two individuals

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_06]: is it just because he was in love with the same girl oh was he okay yeah I mean he wasn't in love

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_01]: with her he so much I mean he has like a little bit of a crush on her once like Jafar left

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_01]: and then he found out she was pregnant with this child so he called the elders and he was

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_01]: like we need to punish her because this child will be in a destruction and he's the reason the child

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_01]: was killed and so when Jafar hugged him at the end I was just like this is nonsense actually

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_06]: Amirita what did you think of the theme of these brothers in conflict again yeah I agree with them

[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_00]: and like it wasn't set up at all and then suddenly in the last episode it was like

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_00]: this is your great ill that you have to like appease for and I'm like why

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_00]: hey and and also this is a man who like we've just spent like six episodes watching him

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_00]: like literally punish an entire village of people for like being responsible for the death of Mehta

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_00]: and then he discovers it was his brother and he's just like well okay I love you anyway boo boo

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_06]: like why okay but I do have to say he was like this whole thing about you know I will not let

[00:22:04] [SPEAKER_06]: these people enter I thought these villagers were gonna burn his house down but they just

[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_01]: want didn't like the veranda that's it so apparently they had apparently buried

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_01]: like I'm just so ridiculous because when I said I just realized how ridiculous

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_01]: this is not so the village elders they supposedly decided they needed to kill Mehta right so they

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_01]: were these 12 village elders and the prophecy said that the child will bring destruction

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_06]: Mehta's own prophecy said that right like she wrote her own prophecy like the book that exists which

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_01]: who knows why it exists it just said that right and it's supposed to be like that is also

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_01]: supposed to be commentary on like religion and people who believe by the book and don't

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_01]: understand it etc etc but like so he sort of like this like oh there's going to be destruction

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_01]: so we need to kill this like child out of wedlock and also this girl and so they kill her except

[00:23:00] [SPEAKER_01]: the fairies take her away or like she becomes a fairy one of those two things and the as a result

[00:23:05] [SPEAKER_01]: like there is like God's wrath I mean they say Azab so I'm imagining God's wrath and like all

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_01]: those 12 villagers just die the next day like all of them just drop dead right and those 12

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_01]: villagers are buried around their tree which jaffer has built like this veranda around and

[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_01]: like he refuses to let people visit those graves and I'm just like in a normal like conversation

[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_01]: about capitalism and ecology or whatever these people will tear down this veranda like they

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_01]: they won't keep requesting him at one point they'll just tear the thing down

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_01]: why this is not this is not that

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_01]: cars does jaffer hold against the people like this is big philanthropist and everyone respects him

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like doesn't matter like yeah no uncle walk

[00:23:59] [SPEAKER_05]: so the so the people with the the the the stones on their back are the elders who died is it

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_01]: but those are souls and the stones on their back are like the ills that they did

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_01]: but also it's also people that didn't die there this is like no no it's just every like if you

[00:24:18] [SPEAKER_01]: were there and someone related to you died they just they're just forced to travel with

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_05]: and then they somehow interact with the living of the current day and then the the a chip on

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_05]: the stone happens and the weight is a bit lightened yeah the way it falls I think it's just

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_01]: the weight of like things they haven't said or like things they did that they regret or whatever

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_01]: and like the moment they like interact with a living person it just and also like sometimes

[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_01]: they interact with a living person sometimes a living person doesn't see them it's just

[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_01]: we're just supposed to assume that when the ghost decides to make itself apparent

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_00]: makes herself apparent yeah but then in the middle of everything there are these little

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_00]: sides that I don't know what to make of like there's a point where for instance

[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_00]: when the little kid I think it's in the first episode where the little kid comes and says

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_00]: that you know like let us access the graves and everything and you know he's just being

[00:25:17] [SPEAKER_00]: like a little shit to the old man and then as the little kid is being escorted out somebody I

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_00]: don't remember who says like an aside like what does that mean like where did that little bit of

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_00]: like feudalism come in like I don't yeah it's just it just has like just as you know the

[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_00]: theology seems to be all like mixed up even the politics seems to be a little bit mixed up where

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just like I can't really follow a cohesive line and maybe I don't know so this is my question

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_00]: to you like do you think like that was the point like the point is that like none of this really

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_00]: matters in the end like you it's just vibes basically that honestly that's where I was going

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_06]: with this I think this is just vibes it's like you know just if you get some thread out of it great

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_06]: but okay I want to take this to the next point because I want to ask this of a m1 too because

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_06]: she probably has a better idea of this the show has been banned or pulled from you to Pakistan

[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_06]: right and I missed the controversy I didn't understand why it was pulled then I went

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_06]: try to figure out why it got pulled and obviously I should have known it was the

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_06]: thread like the homosexual thread between the second Fawad's character and

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_06]: and the Italian chef the Italian chef character right um yeah he's Spanish is he Spanish I don't

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_01]: know he can speak in Spanish but like he was a not and I'm just like okay so you're Spanish

[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_01]: then he cooks Italian food are you not I think he says Napoli at some point so

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_01]: but like he speaks like the interludes are Spanish I was like okay yeah

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_06]: random backpacker go to basically that got stuck in North Pakistan you know

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_06]: he's just vibing man he's just vibing he's making resort to people that I've never had

[00:27:26] [SPEAKER_06]: any on that actually I'm okay on that but I would but yeah before that so I want to hear that theory

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_06]: but so because of this thread and I was looking at a lot of people's common like drama reviewers

[00:27:40] [SPEAKER_06]: you know yeah like I don't watch a lot of Pakistani dramas apologies for that but I do

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_06]: feel that a lot of Pakistani dreamy dramas are stuck in us a way of doing things that

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_06]: doesn't really work for me and those reviewers or commentators discuss those kind of shows and

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_06]: that's their kind of sandbox that they play in and because this was a kind of a outside of that

[00:28:06] [SPEAKER_06]: sandbox there was always always going to be pushed back from the first episode there was pushback

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_06]: but then when you add this element of homosexuality then people just go crazy like then this is

[00:28:18] [SPEAKER_06]: all the fault of this part where I honestly felt is this they're being very you know

[00:28:26] [SPEAKER_06]: kind of superficial they're not there's no blatant sexual acts in it it's all very subtle

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_06]: it's all very poetic even you know like this it's a very like poetic kind of love without any

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_06]: touching and something like that and in a way people were saying this shouldn't be inherent

[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_06]: but I was thinking is this the only way to address these themes be it very poetic very

[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_06]: distant because you cannot be over because you end up becoming a joyland or stuff like that

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_06]: but I think I saw some pushback but there have been shows that have dealt with these

[00:29:01] [SPEAKER_06]: topics much in a much better way so even maybe you can speak towards that and

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_06]: um what did you feel I because I for me I felt that was maybe the most well balanced aspect

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_06]: in the show that homosexual story yeah yeah it was yeah I believe that

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean I also did not believe the way it concluded which if you haven't seen the fourth episode

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_01]: everyone starts tripping like why literally starts tripping like she puts drugs in their food

[00:29:30] [SPEAKER_01]: and they start tripping okay so I also did not like how that was resolved but um my my take on this was

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_01]: that there is no way you introduce a story about homosexuality in a show that is marketed to a

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Pakistani audience like you can argue that this is like you know produced by z or like it's for

[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_01]: an international audience etc etc but you're marketing it through them like you're casting

[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_01]: their biggest superstars is no way they're not tuning in right so you're marketing to them

[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_01]: you have a homosexuality kind of thread I mean there is no way you're not expecting backlash

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_01]: like you're expecting like some kind of reaction from a people who are largely homophobic

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_01]: right but I think that is all that was that was just twitter backlash that was just people on

[00:30:18] [SPEAKER_01]: twitter being like oh we will sue you how dare you etc etc and I'm just like yeah people sue each

[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_01]: other over films like all the time everywhere like that is the thing that happens like

[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_01]: you're like you like it's just it's on youtube you are on no you're under no threat like youtube

[00:30:35] [SPEAKER_01]: isn't governed by a Pakistani like like kind of official body or anything so I'm just like I even

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_01]: understand like pulling the show because pulling the show because it's just like oh it's for

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_01]: safety or whatever but a friend of mine was just like man sometimes failure is just failure it's

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_01]: not martyrdom like it's just you just told the story that people could not relate to like it's just

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_01]: like in in Pakistan for example you have stories at the 8 p.m. time slot about like people who cross

[00:31:06] [SPEAKER_01]: dress because of like like almost idyllic trauma or like um like trans characters who go through

[00:31:13] [SPEAKER_01]: like transition etc and I think a lot of this kind of just passes under the table because

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_01]: they're not saying the words that send alarm bells off like they're not saying it in English

[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_01]: right like they're talking to you in the language that it makes sense to like most people who've

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_01]: known in for the show because they're not saying like homosexuality or the shame attached to homosexuality

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_01]: and like I mean in Pakistan you like I was saying a friend I was like if you show me like a

[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_01]: heterosexual couple leaning in for a kiss right like even that would create like waves we don't

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_01]: even show that like that's we won't even show that like even the even the heterosexual love

[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_01]: is like very much an implication right so it's just I mean I get it if you pulled it back

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_01]: because you're just like oh safety or whatever but I personally did not see anything outside of

[00:32:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Twitter that would make me think oh this needed to be pulled back or like there was like a real threat

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_01]: because even the Zindagi Tamasha that got taken on directly by the right wing in Pakistan

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_01]: they released it on YouTube you're just like just have it here just keep it here let's

[00:32:13] [SPEAKER_01]: watch it here if you want to and I'm like so you can you can watch it here like I mean

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_01]: people access Netflix every day like it's not like they're banning everything on it

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_01]: so just like just put it here and then so I didn't actually see any reason

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I was fired it was also a little bit questionable that you announced this on the day of the finale

[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_01]: it's like what an what an update to announce that we're pulling this back

[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_01]: but um yeah I just honestly I did not see anything outside of Twitter backlash where I was just like

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_01]: like even if the drama reviewers were saying stuff like the drama industry doesn't care what

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_01]: drama reviewers are saying they've been saying do not hit women for like

[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_01]: film, comedy, drama makers don't care like they're just like yeah for fuck you I don't care

[00:32:59] [SPEAKER_01]: just I didn't actually see anything where I was just like oh yeah like if I was in their place

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I would have pulled this back like it's just you're introducing a storyline about homosexuality

[00:33:10] [SPEAKER_01]: to a largely homophobic society you expect some kind of pushback and if like it was within

[00:33:16] [SPEAKER_01]: the bounds of the kind of pushback I would have expected on a show like this

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_06]: Amrita how did that theme work for you because there's also the theme of that character having

[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_06]: killed his mom right so he's also carrying that so we're basically adding and he has issues with

[00:33:32] [SPEAKER_06]: connecting with his father um so then there's a lot packed in that one thread how the how

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_00]: did that kind of work for you to me like that was again like one of the most interesting threads

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_00]: in this uh in this entire story and maybe the reason why I feel that way is also because it was

[00:33:51] [SPEAKER_00]: the most real or it felt the most real to me um because everyone else was just like oh like supernatural

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_00]: supernatural and then this guy was just like yeah my mom is like you know like I'm conflicted about

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_00]: the fact that I'm gay in a society where like I genuinely feel like my being gay has like

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_00]: ruined the life of my mother even though she doesn't know it you know like that that scene where he

[00:34:16] [SPEAKER_00]: like rings the the neck of the pigeon like that to me was just it was like I think the first really

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_00]: emotional moment that I saw in the series up till then um there's just something about that

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_00]: poor little boy like standing with his back to the camera you know and then just that little

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_00]: cloud of like red that was coming up like that was like really good storytelling right there

[00:34:38] [SPEAKER_00]: like visually and then you slowly begin to see what his life was like and like what that happened

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_00]: and even the way that story ends with like him um you know like trying to make an overture to the

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Spanish Italian backpacker mystery Gora um and the way that that resolves like that entire thing

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_00]: seemed like something that would actually happen and it seemed like something that perhaps

[00:35:08] [SPEAKER_00]: had happened to like at least somebody in the you know on the writing team or you know I think

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_00]: the writing team is just it's just a bossy but um at least you know like he knew somebody maybe

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_00]: you know um and so I don't know like but then I also agree that this was not a small

[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_00]: plot point like it's the main thread in the entire story which means that everybody that

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_00]: signed on to this project knew that that story would be there including the person who was like

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_00]: playing that character so it's not like again like you know I'm not even Pakistani but I know

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_00]: that this isn't going to run in Pakistan uh like I like if you had asked me like hey like

[00:35:56] [SPEAKER_00]: what if I just like made this movie about like you know a guy who's like wants to like hook up with like

[00:36:03] [SPEAKER_00]: European and then like put in on like you know all the big stars in Pakistan I mean like yeah

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_00]: like there's going to be a lot of people who are going to be like really mad about it um even in

[00:36:12] [SPEAKER_00]: India if you have like a story that has like an LGBTQ character people get mad they still get

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_00]: I have seen like a lot of Pakistanis say that oh yeah like this is meant for India like you

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_00]: know it's meant for an Indian audience therefore it's okay and like it's not okay like there's

[00:36:27] [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of people who get really mad about it in India as well um so yeah you knew that this was

[00:36:35] [SPEAKER_00]: coming with the territory so I I don't believe that they didn't have a game plan in when they

[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_00]: went ahead with this um I make fun of z5 a lot but I can't believe that even they're that incompetent

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_00]: like that is not that is not reality as I know it so did that work for you because I think that probably

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_06]: gets wrapped up in the three four episode you've seen right because there's never really like a

[00:37:05] [SPEAKER_01]: large conclusion at the end of that no there is a conclusion towards episode four I think it

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_06]: should be an episode in the day we're all I just want to know if you miss that one okay oh damn it

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_05]: that's my job that you know that's my kind of thing but I missed that I didn't get to that

[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_05]: but I think they did explore the things about his uh him growing up with all that shame the

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_05]: the guilt that he carries and the killing of his mother I saw that bit and the bit where he

[00:37:36] [SPEAKER_05]: is tempted to you know hook up with this guy and then they go to on that bike trip and

[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_05]: they try to kiss and then he pushes him away and then all of that happens but I I'm still curious to

[00:37:48] [SPEAKER_05]: hear from Aiman about the the the theory that she has about the italian guy right yeah what's your

[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_01]: opinion about the my I just I actually have like a larger theory about how this show is written

[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_01]: that was honestly the thinking of writing like like I told my friend he was just like just write a

[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_01]: piece like just write a piece on this my the thing is and he said it he was like if you if you end

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_01]: up in Lahore right and I know you guys haven't been to like you guys haven't been in Pakistan for a

[00:38:18] [SPEAKER_01]: bit or like you know like you haven't been to Hunza or whatever when I see the past two homes

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I know what that is like I I know that like I know that place like everyone like it's a very

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_01]: famous like cultural spot like a tourist spot right like it's on every kind of flyer or tourism

[00:38:34] [SPEAKER_01]: flyer whatever and he's like if a filmmaker comes to Lahore and like shoots around and

[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_01]: like is heavily borrowing from like the landscape of like Batsahi mosque and everything

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_01]: and then turns around and shows Batsahi mosque on camera and goes like this is Agrabah

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I just know man it's not like it's a place in time like it's a my problem is like this

[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_01]: is once again like you know comparatively it's student coming to the court like it just became that thing

[00:39:06] [SPEAKER_01]: of like I was just like so this whole like the whole east kind of collapses on itself

[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_01]: in this little village right like it's just like the clothes that girl is wearing Mehtaab is

[00:39:18] [SPEAKER_01]: wearing in the first scene they're very Punjabi right like it's a very Punjabi cut on the clothes

[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_01]: right but they're presumably in Hunza and he's going Junoob to become a big person so Junoob

[00:39:29] [SPEAKER_01]: means south so like presumably to Karachi or Lahore right and um you like not every in every part

[00:39:37] [SPEAKER_01]: of the world you don't go to Junoob to like make money right like you're charting this on the

[00:39:41] [SPEAKER_01]: map of like Pakistan right like the problem like for example to keep referring to like

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_01]: slum area as kachi abadi and I'm like no that's a Pakistani word for like slum area kachi abadi

[00:39:52] [SPEAKER_01]: is not something like it's colloquially accepted in the world other than anywhere in Pakistan

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_01]: right and then so you like you show Hunza but you never show its people or like its culture

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_01]: or anything and like all these people are speaking like this really sadis would do

[00:40:10] [SPEAKER_01]: that feels like it was first written in English and then like you got like a person who translated

[00:40:14] [SPEAKER_01]: it and or do so like people could speak it and it's like they're speaking this salis would do

[00:40:19] [SPEAKER_01]: and it's just like I was like they're referring to the main patriarch is Aqa which is like Agahan

[00:40:26] [SPEAKER_01]: like married thrice like you know like he's like this big philanthropist so you're talking about

[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Agahan who's like the leader of the smiley community and like majority of Hunza is a smiley but

[00:40:36] [SPEAKER_01]: you don't really show them as a smiley in and then you know like then they're celebrating

[00:40:40] [SPEAKER_01]: like Meriga which I come out I asked my smiley room mate I was like give a

[00:40:43] [SPEAKER_01]: celebrate Meriga they're like no that's a first year thing like that's just first year

[00:40:47] [SPEAKER_01]: so like you're doing that and then you're not showing currency like of the country because

[00:40:52] [SPEAKER_01]: you're really trying to do this thing of like this place is just dislocated in time

[00:40:55] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah it's a magical place yeah it's just somewhere where I'm like I can see the Pasukon so like

[00:40:59] [SPEAKER_01]: maybe don't like you know it's like if you're if you're not just shooting here for logistical

[00:41:03] [SPEAKER_01]: reasons this is not like Lord of the Rings in New Zealand where like I don't see any cultural marker I

[00:41:08] [SPEAKER_01]: know there are lots of lands so they're in New Zealand for this I'm just like I can see cultural

[00:41:14] [SPEAKER_01]: markers but like you're making an effort to kind of remove like people from those cultural markers

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_01]: the east is sort of collapsing on itself like anyone bears anything says anything celebrates

[00:41:25] [SPEAKER_01]: anything there's no like rigidity to the way they work but Fawad's character is from London

[00:41:31] [SPEAKER_01]: London exists you know like and like in London there are like which is why it was so interesting that

[00:41:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Fawad's like kind of like what haunts Fawad is that he'll become like his father

[00:41:44] [SPEAKER_01]: right and like it is a mirror reflection of like it's the same image right of the mother

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_01]: and the child and one helplessly forcing food into the mouth of the other because the father

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_01]: is just not at home right and they're left to like they're like they're like psychologically

[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_01]: falling apart but they're left to like take care of this wonderful person like what is what his

[00:42:04] [SPEAKER_01]: brother's story is is also like the story of his wife so he kind of is like his father's mirror

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_01]: image in that way it's the same mother son story where the mother ends up dead because the

[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_01]: father isn't here and because one of them was falling apart trying to take care of this

[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_01]: vulnerable person like it's almost very well done the way this reflects each other yeah and

[00:42:25] [SPEAKER_01]: i'm just like but like look at the visual language of when the older brother is dealing with the mom

[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_01]: where it's quite literally like they're disconnected from the world like it's quite literally like a

[00:42:34] [SPEAKER_01]: set like the hospital scene is a set yeah it doesn't feel like a hospital right but like

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Fawad's family in London like that house is lived in like they have cutesy like videos about like

[00:42:47] [SPEAKER_01]: you know family videos like there is like prescription medicines their breast pumps

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_01]: they're like there's a television they stand-up comedy like this house looks like a house in

[00:42:57] [SPEAKER_01]: which a child lives right and it's just like that's solid like that part is like a real world

[00:43:04] [SPEAKER_01]: right and then when you come to the east like you're taking care of not showing currency

[00:43:09] [SPEAKER_01]: like the Pakistani currency because this can be just anywhere this is just land of some

[00:43:13] [SPEAKER_01]: you're charting it on like the Pakistani landscape right like even the denominations

[00:43:20] [SPEAKER_01]: of the money you're talking about like a thousand two thousand three i'm like those are Pakistani

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_01]: currency like no one's like economy is gone to be extend with that a thousand

[00:43:27] [SPEAKER_01]: it's a it's a look right i'm just like it it it's stop and like the thing is he keeps

[00:43:34] [SPEAKER_01]: saying magical realism but like if you pick up magical realism it is so rooted in post-colonialism

[00:43:41] [SPEAKER_01]: like all magical realism really dabbles with like what did colonialism do to us

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_01]: right and you're in Hunza which has like multiple layers of colonialism on it like you know it's the

[00:43:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Pakistani state is not exactly what it like like it kind of relates to the like you have like

[00:44:00] [SPEAKER_01]: that was saying like number that is such a fun thing to say about the brother because

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_01]: number that is system quite literally got introduced in British India like it didn't exist like

[00:44:11] [SPEAKER_01]: that's not that's not just a natural name for like a village leader that's a person who like deals in land

[00:44:18] [SPEAKER_01]: like you know like he's the British like marker responsible for like land feelings like who owns

[00:44:23] [SPEAKER_01]: land who in herds land like what parcel of land goes to whom and the number that is system is what

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_01]: like commercialized land in India so you are having all these conversations about like man and

[00:44:36] [SPEAKER_01]: his relationship with land and development etc etc the other brother is named number that when I'm

[00:44:41] [SPEAKER_01]: like okay so this is an interesting place to go into like okay so like are you saying like it's

[00:44:45] [SPEAKER_01]: just like despite all your differences like you're the same person like you still like

[00:44:50] [SPEAKER_01]: you still like symbolize commercialization of land etc and I'm just like but it feels like

[00:44:56] [SPEAKER_01]: you don't know what a number that is because you didn't like really care to figure out what

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_01]: this topography is yeah and I'm just like there's like like so it stops being like magical realism

[00:45:08] [SPEAKER_01]: and really sort of becomes like Aladdin like you know almost Orientalist of like you know like

[00:45:13] [SPEAKER_01]: everything goes in the east like the only time you show local women right they're either being

[00:45:20] [SPEAKER_01]: abused so they get like rescued by ferries or they're like regretting how much they abuse

[00:45:26] [SPEAKER_01]: their daughter who got rescued by a ferry and like there is no other like local women do nothing

[00:45:31] [SPEAKER_01]: else like there's no other representation for local women right it's one share is art who's

[00:45:36] [SPEAKER_01]: grown and royalty and anyone in the village like either they're regretting the way they treated

[00:45:40] [SPEAKER_01]: their daughter or the fact that the ferries took them and they can't get them back right

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_01]: and I'm just like and so like all of the east kind of like collapse like she goes to a

[00:45:51] [SPEAKER_01]: and like in this wooden car wooden box with a red velvet piece like there are shrooms

[00:45:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like no one's tripping like that of hoosa people like no one's no one's do it right and

[00:46:02] [SPEAKER_01]: then she comes back and she puts the shrooms in everyone's food and like they start tripping

[00:46:06] [SPEAKER_01]: and I'm just like what is what is happening and it just in that line to have like the

[00:46:14] [SPEAKER_01]: like the only character who's likable or who has like some like you know like who becomes like

[00:46:21] [SPEAKER_01]: the reprieve of one of these characters haunted by their demons for him to be european it just

[00:46:28] [SPEAKER_01]: kind of feels like man this is pointed like you know like like the first episode for our character

[00:46:34] [SPEAKER_01]: comes in and this bell boy goes like oh this is a place if like switzerland and disneyland

[00:46:38] [SPEAKER_01]: copulate and that's a very weird way to describe like a place like that's not like no culture would

[00:46:46] [SPEAKER_01]: accept that like you know and i'm like you're not representing like you know like these people

[00:46:51] [SPEAKER_01]: you're not representing their like the only the you showing like these big duster hans being

[00:46:56] [SPEAKER_01]: laid out with food right but like the only food that's by name is like italian food so like

[00:47:03] [SPEAKER_01]: you know like you never like talk about like who these people are like you're criticizing

[00:47:07] [SPEAKER_01]: their religious patriarch but you're showing nothing about their religion otherwise like who are

[00:47:13] [SPEAKER_01]: they what do they believe in like do they even speak the kind of Urdu that you've shown them speak

[00:47:19] [SPEAKER_01]: right and it's just like you can pass a lot off as like oh this is magical realism

[00:47:25] [SPEAKER_01]: but it doesn't play in the tradition of magical realism because magical realism is so closely

[00:47:29] [SPEAKER_01]: tied to the idea of post-colonialism like in latin america or in india or whatever

[00:47:33] [SPEAKER_01]: like what what did like our experience with colonialism like how did that

[00:47:38] [SPEAKER_01]: like leave us dealing with power right and like like masculinity and all these ideas

[00:47:44] [SPEAKER_01]: and i'm like it stops being magical realism when you like kind of ungrounded from those realities

[00:47:51] [SPEAKER_01]: i'm kind of just becomes like orientalist right just anything goes like in the east anything

[00:47:56] [SPEAKER_01]: goes you know like the west has a structure to it but in the east like anyone celebrates any

[00:48:02] [SPEAKER_01]: any like you know like because all religions are the same and everyone's saying the same message so

[00:48:07] [SPEAKER_01]: like everyone celebrates like any kind of like festival they kind of speak in any language

[00:48:12] [SPEAKER_01]: they wear any clothes the topography doesn't matter you can look at a cultural marker and be like

[00:48:18] [SPEAKER_01]: this is land of nowhere and you're like what's not i can see what it is i i think when you

[00:48:24] [SPEAKER_06]: that's why i think certain themes in the show feel lived in and certain things feel like a

[00:48:30] [SPEAKER_06]: tourist visiting them yeah you know and i think that's what we're kind of you know like like we spoke

[00:48:35] [SPEAKER_06]: about the homosexual themes the london themes you know those feel lived in those feel like you know

[00:48:43] [SPEAKER_06]: they had personal connection with how these stories were written but the all of the village part

[00:48:49] [SPEAKER_06]: does feel like you know a tourist video or like if i would go there and i was like that looks pretty

[00:48:54] [SPEAKER_06]: and that's as much of my connect will go right uh yeah no i get that was there was fawad playing

[00:49:01] [SPEAKER_06]: a therapist in this show yes psychiatrist i think yeah yeah psychiatrist therapist so i think maybe

[00:49:08] [SPEAKER_06]: that was also one of those things where he's failing at being able to help his wife going

[00:49:14] [SPEAKER_06]: through postpartum it's a very personal masculine failure failure yeah yeah into that so i think

[00:49:22] [SPEAKER_06]: again maybe that's again a theme that's resonating in some way with the writers or the creators

[00:49:27] [SPEAKER_06]: failing on that level failing to connect with your parents for whatever reason be it homosexuality

[00:49:33] [SPEAKER_06]: be it because of you know uh being like them or being incorporating the hate that they have in them

[00:49:40] [SPEAKER_06]: so i think those themes are definitely there and those are the ones kind of that stick

[00:49:45] [SPEAKER_06]: out but it's when you when they want to become a bit more yeah i really think that's what he

[00:49:50] [SPEAKER_01]: wanted to write about like the two brothers the two brothers i really think is what he wanted to

[00:49:55] [SPEAKER_01]: write about and everything else kind of just came into play because he decided he wants to do this

[00:50:00] [SPEAKER_01]: magical realism thing and it's just it just looks like like for example like i i really did not

[00:50:07] [SPEAKER_01]: care about the fairy sort of situation like i was just like i don't there is no there's no

[00:50:13] [SPEAKER_01]: nuance to this story there is no layers to this it's just it's pretty straightforward

[00:50:17] [SPEAKER_01]: that if you mistreat a woman a fairy comes from across the mountain and takes her away

[00:50:21] [SPEAKER_01]: i'm just like there is no nuance to this there is no like humanization of the people

[00:50:26] [SPEAKER_01]: who are abusing women like i'm just like you can humanize them also like bad ways good ways you

[00:50:31] [SPEAKER_01]: can show me who they are beyond just like this large swaths of people who just like don't treat women

[00:50:36] [SPEAKER_06]: well you know it's also like an easy solution right like it's it's almost like a cop out to

[00:50:41] [SPEAKER_06]: a certain degree in terms of storytelling right like they just take them you don't

[00:50:46] [SPEAKER_06]: know what happens they all climb this mountain singing a song you don't see them again like there's no

[00:50:50] [SPEAKER_06]: there's no why why these people with them what they got out of it i don't never really understood

[00:50:56] [SPEAKER_06]: and i think that also then links with amrit i want to ask you first before we move on like

[00:51:02] [SPEAKER_06]: how did the fawad and iman suleman i think it's iman suleman how did that theme kind of stick

[00:51:09] [SPEAKER_00]: out for you um did that work for you well first of all i just want to give props to iman because

[00:51:15] [SPEAKER_00]: like a lot of the things that she was talking about um it either didn't occur to me or like i

[00:51:22] [SPEAKER_00]: had like no idea like i had no idea that the aga khanis were uh from hunza like that was not

[00:51:27] [SPEAKER_00]: like a context that i had uh i did wonder why they were calling him aqa and i thought like that

[00:51:33] [SPEAKER_00]: was again like to me like uh that just sort of goes back to the you know like periyunki khani

[00:51:40] [SPEAKER_00]: sort of aspect uh i thought like that was yeah and also her name is uh sharezad you know her name is

[00:51:48] [SPEAKER_00]: nianlisha aria yeah so i think i get reference yeah yeah so i thought like that was a reference

[00:51:53] [SPEAKER_00]: but like what you were saying makes absolute sense so what's the what's the reference if i because

[00:51:58] [SPEAKER_01]: i'm not arianites okay which story is it the framing story is like all these stories we are

[00:52:05] [SPEAKER_01]: being told is actually being told by sharezad to shareya like it's the framing like thread off sorry

[00:52:11] [SPEAKER_00]: about yeah um so yeah um but for me like uh the favad and um uh his wife like that entire thing

[00:52:27] [SPEAKER_00]: like when she first showed up i was like uh is that like who like what is happening like it was

[00:52:36] [SPEAKER_00]: like one of those things where i was just like oh no it's a sad woman like i think you know another

[00:52:44] [SPEAKER_00]: character no but like it's also um maybe it's just that i'm like an old old woman now but

[00:52:51] [SPEAKER_00]: it comes to a point where i can smell the earnestness a mile away you know um and it's the woman with

[00:52:59] [SPEAKER_00]: the post-partum depression and i'm just like oh yeah okay i get it which which is surprising just to

[00:53:06] [SPEAKER_06]: kind of intricate because he has written cake and he has written sharez which is really well done

[00:53:13] [SPEAKER_06]: female representation and the themes that they speak with and i would even say the brother

[00:53:18] [SPEAKER_06]: relationship uh when emin was bringing that mirrors a bit to the sister relationship in cake

[00:53:24] [SPEAKER_06]: right but i feel there's some maybe disconnect with the writing here which i didn't feel the same way

[00:53:31] [SPEAKER_06]: in cake and sharez which i thought were amazing but it's it's i had that feeling too amrita

[00:53:38] [SPEAKER_06]: where you're saying that you know it's another sad woman but i'm just surprised that it's

[00:53:41] [SPEAKER_06]: coming from asim abasi where he's not he's been deeper in his thoughts when he's writing

[00:53:47] [SPEAKER_06]: about also sad women or broken woman or hurt women right well the i think the fundamental

[00:53:54] [SPEAKER_00]: problem with that particular storyline is that it really organically wants to be the story of

[00:54:01] [SPEAKER_00]: the little boy and his father and then storytelling wise because it is also the story of the father

[00:54:09] [SPEAKER_00]: and the grandfather and because like favad is like a pretty magnetic person to have on screen

[00:54:15] [SPEAKER_00]: um the storyline keeps sort of like skewing towards this dead wife theme and pretty much all

[00:54:23] [SPEAKER_00]: the conversations that favad's character has with his dad they all come around to like well

[00:54:31] [SPEAKER_00]: maybe order your order your belly belly belly like you know like it all always comes back to that

[00:54:37] [SPEAKER_00]: um and that always takes away from the from the very like delicate sort of relationship between

[00:54:48] [SPEAKER_00]: sherryar and his son who is really like sort of lost in the world and in the beginning i kind of

[00:54:58] [SPEAKER_00]: wondered if the little boy was supposed to be the audience's pov into this world you know like

[00:55:04] [SPEAKER_00]: a way for us to explore this world and find like make sense of like what was happening

[00:55:08] [SPEAKER_00]: and then it was very clear very quickly and uh that you know the little kid basically was being saved

[00:55:15] [SPEAKER_00]: for that one last scene in the last episode uh you know like and it was just again like it like

[00:55:22] [SPEAKER_00]: you know like emin says like it was just one of those things where you just go like what was

[00:55:25] [SPEAKER_00]: the point of that then um so you had that entire thing about like the dead wife

[00:55:32] [SPEAKER_00]: and then the dead wife is just sort of like floating around like literally just floating around

[00:55:38] [SPEAKER_00]: and again like that just sort of like comes back to this this recurring feeling that i have that

[00:55:46] [SPEAKER_00]: this is such wasted potential because there is so much that you could have done with each

[00:55:51] [SPEAKER_00]: of these characters uh like jaffa for instance like you could have an entire series just about like

[00:55:57] [SPEAKER_00]: his emotional um peaks and valleys because he genuinely is complex right like he's a very

[00:56:06] [SPEAKER_00]: unlikable person but he also has that depth of feeling where it's like you know 40 50 years later

[00:56:14] [SPEAKER_00]: but he's still devoted to that one girl for whom he went into the city to like buy her a necklace

[00:56:21] [SPEAKER_00]: like that is the kind of thing that we still sing songs about on this continent

[00:56:26] [SPEAKER_00]: so you have that sort of like depth of emotion that you could like talk about or like portray or

[00:56:34] [SPEAKER_00]: explore and instead what we have is like what sounds like a dad sort of

[00:56:41] [SPEAKER_00]: you know um trying to prove that he's a top dog to his sons and it always just sort of comes

[00:56:48] [SPEAKER_00]: down to like sexuality which just sort of like it's weird it's like it's a weird tone right like

[00:56:54] [SPEAKER_00]: the whole thing is like oh look at us we are the fairies wearing beautiful hanza the cinematography

[00:57:01] [SPEAKER_00]: it's so beautiful and then like you have like the violence and it's like oh no the violence the

[00:57:06] [SPEAKER_00]: violence it's so bloody and then all of a sudden you have like this tone where like he's just

[00:57:11] [SPEAKER_00]: talking about like sex quite a bit um but he's not like talking about sex in like explicit

[00:57:16] [SPEAKER_00]: terms because again like this is still a Pakistani serial but he is talking about sex like every time

[00:57:23] [SPEAKER_00]: he's like talking to Favad about his wife he just seems to want to like profane it almost

[00:57:32] [SPEAKER_06]: he reduces it to only sexuality when it's other women even his other son right he how many times

[00:57:39] [SPEAKER_06]: does he call him to go that's right and all that so he reduces everybody except his own

[00:57:45] [SPEAKER_06]: like everybody else is reduced to sex except his own love which is reduced in large to divinity so I

[00:57:53] [SPEAKER_06]: think that's kind of what jaffer jaffu is whatever he's trying to do but coming back to the sexuality

[00:57:59] [SPEAKER_06]: also is that har is the little boy is the one that's making the most off-handed sexual comments

[00:58:05] [SPEAKER_06]: like making necrophilia jokes and things like that and I was like this whole

[00:58:17] [SPEAKER_06]: system is system

[00:58:18] [SPEAKER_06]: because I know you didn't kind of come to the conclusion and I'm very sad for you that you missed

[00:58:23] [SPEAKER_06]: out the therapy shroom session but um how did Fawad Khan as a performer stand out for you because

[00:58:30] [SPEAKER_06]: for me still he is the best one out of the lot really even if shaking it so I want to hear

[00:58:36] [SPEAKER_05]: then I'll go with sujoy so the reaction that I got from twitter when the first few episodes

[00:58:44] [SPEAKER_05]: released was uh fawad is being dickish but he's being hot about it hot dick is being hot dick

[00:58:54] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah and I got that got it let's let's double down

[00:59:01] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah um yeah I completely got that vibe from him uh he he knows he's hot you know even though

[00:59:09] [SPEAKER_05]: he's being throwing his attitude around you know what does he think of himself you know

[00:59:15] [SPEAKER_05]: it's very poo in a way and then and then uh uh I mean you guys mentioned Karan Johar

[00:59:23] [SPEAKER_00]: that's why that came into my head please direct all your letters to sujoy sing

[00:59:30] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah I don't know this this series as a whole left me underwhelmed so even fawad being

[00:59:37] [SPEAKER_05]: associated with it I just couldn't like uh the last time we saw him was Mola jet you know and he

[00:59:43] [SPEAKER_05]: was swinging gandasas and being hot about it I preferred that version of fawad khan to this

[00:59:48] [SPEAKER_05]: where he's served very tanda material and like I'm just saying this is again the faruk sheik

[00:59:56] [SPEAKER_06]: amitabh discussion for the third week in a row why we prefer Mola jet fawad women prefer

[01:00:08] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah I mean that's pretty much it I don't have many notes on oh I don't have any

[01:00:14] [SPEAKER_05]: notes on anybody but fawad yeah you know um but uh sanam say that I would say

[01:00:20] [SPEAKER_05]: is she's looking gorgeous on screen yes okay I want to hear why

[01:00:25] [SPEAKER_06]: emin didn't like because then I want to round up with the sanam say it's character because I feel

[01:00:30] [SPEAKER_06]: that's supposed to be kind of like the the yeah the I don't know what it is emin you don't

[01:00:36] [SPEAKER_06]: you didn't like fawad you were shaking your head very vigorously I thought it was like

[01:00:42] [SPEAKER_01]: it was a it wasn't his best performance but like I think that's just because I didn't like the approach

[01:00:48] [SPEAKER_01]: he took to this like I thought like the older brother was like like that was I enjoyed his

[01:00:55] [SPEAKER_01]: performance a lot more of like his trauma and like his shame and everything attached to him

[01:01:00] [SPEAKER_01]: because like it was very understated like this fawad I think he was also doing the theater

[01:01:05] [SPEAKER_01]: thing where I'm just like man there's not enough in this character for you to be like

[01:01:08] [SPEAKER_01]: like now this just looks like you're trying to make up for everything that's like not there in the right

[01:01:14] [SPEAKER_01]: like the problem with these characters also was they weren't dynamic like you know like what

[01:01:20] [SPEAKER_01]: amrisa said that ideas like their concepts right so like for example like you knew the beats of

[01:01:25] [SPEAKER_01]: every conversation very very quickly so like if they're sitting at a dinner table one son will

[01:01:30] [SPEAKER_01]: like approach his father and talk about what a terrible father he is and the father will

[01:01:33] [SPEAKER_01]: start screaming at him and then we like sanam say it will come in we like oh no please keep

[01:01:37] [SPEAKER_01]: coming please keep coming that's like two dinner scenes like every conversation between like sherryar

[01:01:43] [SPEAKER_01]: and sherryad is where he's being like a rational snake and she's being this kind of mystical believer

[01:01:48] [SPEAKER_01]: and then he would say something sarcastic and she would reply to it stoically and then he

[01:01:53] [SPEAKER_01]: would reply back sarcastically and then she would she would be unfazed and like I'm just

[01:01:58] [SPEAKER_01]: like I've seen this conversation take place now four times like like are they learning

[01:02:02] [SPEAKER_01]: something from this conversation or like why am I why am I seeing the same beats play over and over

[01:02:07] [SPEAKER_01]: again where I can predict everyone's behavior in this room because once again you're writing

[01:02:13] [SPEAKER_01]: concepts and you're writing about how these concepts work last with each other but like

[01:02:17] [SPEAKER_01]: you're not really writing anything about like how these characters would like you know like the

[01:02:22] [SPEAKER_01]: first time he's like pointing out to the father of like you left my mom and like

[01:02:26] [SPEAKER_01]: the younger father is just like he wouldn't care let it be and then the second time

[01:02:31] [SPEAKER_01]: he's pointing out about how like you were so careless when my wife died and the older father's

[01:02:35] [SPEAKER_01]: like he wouldn't care letting me and then the father is screaming at them and like share his

[01:02:38] [SPEAKER_01]: others just there like please hold your car please hold your car I was just like I've seen this

[01:02:42] [SPEAKER_01]: exact scene like two episodes ago yeah like what happens to me I just feel like because they

[01:02:47] [SPEAKER_01]: weren't dynamic enough when Fawad was doing so much with like his father like you know like

[01:02:51] [SPEAKER_01]: I really hate you etc etc I kind of just resolved in an episode I was just like

[01:02:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I should not have hated him so much then like I should not have set me up where like he's just

[01:03:05] [SPEAKER_01]: like reveling in the fact that his father is getting screwed over by these villagers

[01:03:09] [SPEAKER_01]: and then like one episode later they're like buddies again and I'm just like

[01:03:14] [SPEAKER_01]: so why did you hate him so much?

[01:03:18] [SPEAKER_06]: But I think for me the problem in a way lies with the Sanam seh character because

[01:03:23] [SPEAKER_06]: when you compound all of these problems that we have about you know its themes, its ideas,

[01:03:28] [SPEAKER_06]: its concepts and it's never real and I think all of that comes together in Sanam seh's character

[01:03:33] [SPEAKER_06]: and the dynamics that you're talking about you know she calming down the father calming down the

[01:03:39] [SPEAKER_06]: village is calming and I was like to what end maybe have that conversation yeah fight it out

[01:03:45] [SPEAKER_06]: and I don't know why she was trying to you know calm the father and calm the brothers

[01:03:51] [SPEAKER_06]: when like I didn't understand that at all what was it it wasn't even for like familial harmony

[01:03:57] [SPEAKER_06]: because there is no familial harmony this is not a family in any way shape or form right

[01:04:02] [SPEAKER_06]: and then to the point where at the end they climb this mountain she is the dragon or the

[01:04:07] [SPEAKER_06]: snake sometimes the transition changes and then that little boy has to explain to us

[01:04:13] [SPEAKER_06]: because the show doesn't make it clear that mountain baby has become queen of the village

[01:04:19] [SPEAKER_06]: and I was like okay at least somebody has explained to me what's going on

[01:04:23] [SPEAKER_06]: what she's going to do as the queen of the village nobody knows what she was doing as a mountain

[01:04:29] [SPEAKER_01]: baby nobody knows also like did you ever feel this urgency of oh my god she has to make a choice

[01:04:34] [SPEAKER_01]: when she goes with the fairies or when she stay on this land no yeah that was really brought up

[01:04:39] [SPEAKER_01]: as like she's making this big call and I'm like I never I never cared no I mean I understand

[01:04:46] [SPEAKER_06]: eczema can be a problem for you guys and you need a solution for it but like you know like

[01:05:02] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know that was being set up

[01:05:07] [SPEAKER_01]: like you being here would mean anything to anyone or you leaving is like a big thing

[01:05:11] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah yeah because I gave up a three and a half every day so it's in it all feels like a

[01:05:17] [SPEAKER_05]: plot points on a spin on the wheel and they just jumbled everything and just threw everything

[01:05:22] [SPEAKER_05]: they could at the you know they started filming and yeah should be a mountain fairy there should

[01:05:28] [SPEAKER_05]: be a hill there should be that and everything in the kitchen sink honestly the mountain didn't

[01:05:34] [SPEAKER_06]: even look that impressive it looked like a 30 minute hike to be honest like it was really like

[01:05:39] [SPEAKER_06]: anybody could do this is fine but I just want to tell you like like there's a moment you know like

[01:05:45] [SPEAKER_06]: Saddam Said starts getting like the snake skin that starts yeah yeah she gets a tattoo and yeah

[01:05:50] [SPEAKER_06]: but then it covers her neck but we're not covering the face right because it's so pretty yeah

[01:05:55] [SPEAKER_06]: you can't do that that's what people pay for but it comes till the neck and then it suddenly

[01:06:00] [SPEAKER_06]: goes away too so that's her old dilemma she was gonna turn into a snake and then she did

[01:06:06] [SPEAKER_06]: yeah um

[01:06:07] [SPEAKER_06]: a lot of people were saying that she also reminds me of Hatim Tayi you know with Sangeeta

[01:06:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Vizani she gets the curse and she turns into stone and then you reverse the curse one step at a time

[01:06:21] [SPEAKER_05]: and she turns so I can do the fairy yeah Hatim Tayi is a better watch than Bersa I would say

[01:06:28] [SPEAKER_00]: you don't know how much I've tried not to make the Hatim Tayi come back to sin also

[01:06:35] [SPEAKER_00]: because I was like you know this is the first time on the point that I don't want to try

[01:06:41] [SPEAKER_05]: it's also unfair on one of the asims

[01:06:44] [SPEAKER_05]: but how does that kind of work for you the whole

[01:06:56] [SPEAKER_00]: it generally it didn't like that was the most hundered part of the entire exercise so we started

[01:07:01] [SPEAKER_05]: this episode with us Amrita being the most positive you guys are like bringing me down

[01:07:08] [SPEAKER_05]: and every time we go to Amrita my common gene really criticizes the show

[01:07:15] [SPEAKER_06]: I want to end on a positive note I want to end on a positive okay yeah go ahead Amrita

[01:07:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I was just waiting for you to stop

[01:07:31] [SPEAKER_00]: no I like the whole thing with Sanam Sai is like I kept waiting for her to do something

[01:07:38] [SPEAKER_00]: genuinely like because like I think I said this to you like when when I had only seen the first

[01:07:45] [SPEAKER_00]: episode there's a moment where like you know like the village is like burst into the house or

[01:07:50] [SPEAKER_00]: and like she steps in front of Jaffer and she sort of like looks like she's gonna fight them off

[01:07:57] [SPEAKER_00]: and I thought that she was going to be some sort of like avenging angel like she was going to be

[01:08:01] [SPEAKER_00]: like some sort of badass and then it just turned out she was just this very talky woman

[01:08:08] [SPEAKER_00]: wandered around the mountain and I was just like oh okay I did like the shawl she was wearing

[01:08:16] [SPEAKER_06]: was like open in the front but very long and then long in the back I thought that was kind of cool

[01:08:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I'd never see it is on point yeah on the face card there were declines as the youth say but uh

[01:08:26] [SPEAKER_01]: that was basically all I could really I did not I did not get the monologue like the

[01:08:33] [SPEAKER_01]: voiceover monologues that she got at the beginning and the answer what is fine

[01:08:37] [SPEAKER_06]: what is the purpose of this isn't a text that they show yeah like what was the prophecy

[01:08:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't like you can write any episode and then go back and write like anything in the beginning

[01:08:48] [SPEAKER_01]: of it and I just have to buy like the like the episode isn't progressing as of like how will this

[01:08:53] [SPEAKER_01]: prophecy come true in this episode like you've written an episode and you've gone back

[01:08:58] [SPEAKER_01]: and like described it in the beginning and it's like what is and like being been like very

[01:09:03] [SPEAKER_01]: flowery language around it and I'm like this this doesn't mean anything like I you could

[01:09:06] [SPEAKER_01]: just not have this and I could still watch the show and it would mean the same thing stay

[01:09:11] [SPEAKER_01]: same with like the voiceovers I was just like these voiceovers aren't adding anything yeah yeah

[01:09:17] [SPEAKER_06]: yeah um yeah I'm uh I'm I'm sad I'm sad for this like uh I think that's just my general feeling

[01:09:24] [SPEAKER_06]: I just kind of ended on a positive note I do feel Asim Abbasi is like a very important creative

[01:09:30] [SPEAKER_06]: voice right in Pakistan and I think he's he has the possibility to kind of step out of the

[01:09:37] [SPEAKER_06]: confines of the Pakistani creative space and do something different do something challenging

[01:09:44] [SPEAKER_06]: and I applaud them for it and anything he makes I will watch I will die and if you are listening

[01:09:50] [SPEAKER_06]: to this Asim I'm not we're not I'm not being negative because I tried to get to you on the

[01:09:54] [SPEAKER_06]: show and you didn't reply to my dm this is not the reason why you went negative but it also

[01:10:07] [SPEAKER_06]: clear for a lot of people that didn't work but I was also just kind of sad that the way it

[01:10:12] [SPEAKER_06]: okay it is available on YouTube right it's gotten like six seven million views or something like

[01:10:17] [SPEAKER_06]: that and I was like man Mr Beast gets 50 million 100 million views on some random bullshit I'm

[01:10:23] [SPEAKER_06]: locked in a tub I'm you know I'm locked in a toilet I ran out of whatever and that gets so

[01:10:29] [SPEAKER_06]: like it's hard to be in a creative space get people to watch your stuff and try to do

[01:10:36] [SPEAKER_06]: something that's visually appealing that has okay maybe it didn't connect for us but I'm sure that

[01:10:41] [SPEAKER_06]: for Asim Abasi it had meaning right and it is sad that we're in a space where he's confined by

[01:10:49] [SPEAKER_06]: you know the creative space he's in the stories he can tell the medium he can bring it to

[01:10:54] [SPEAKER_06]: and then also just the national histories of you know it's an Indian platform but you're

[01:11:01] [SPEAKER_06]: making Pakistani do this and oh Pakistani shows only get promoted when there's an LGBTQ

[01:11:07] [SPEAKER_06]: component in it and otherwise it doesn't you know all of these story narratives that

[01:11:12] [SPEAKER_06]: the creative doesn't necessarily need to be bothered with he just needs to create right so

[01:11:19] [SPEAKER_06]: I just want to say that I'm really happy he made this show we were worried that you know

[01:11:24] [SPEAKER_06]: it might not come out we didn't hear from it for a long time I'm glad I watched it

[01:11:29] [SPEAKER_06]: but the show ultimately didn't work because there's so much that is just a mess and I would not

[01:11:36] [SPEAKER_06]: necessarily recommend it although I didn't really enjoy watching it I'm not I didn't feel

[01:11:40] [SPEAKER_06]: I wasted my time in any way sheh but uh Eman final words on Bersaq I'm glad we took a swing

[01:11:47] [SPEAKER_01]: like I always like when a creator takes a swing like it might not pay off it might pay off

[01:11:51] [SPEAKER_01]: but at least like you try to do something that was fun and you know like you wouldn't

[01:11:58] [SPEAKER_01]: really see anything like Bersaq anywhere else on like look like your role just doesn't work for you

[01:12:02] [SPEAKER_01]: like go watch this like it's the same thing like it's it's not it's very unique and it's like

[01:12:07] [SPEAKER_01]: like it's narrative voice it's very unique in the way it has like described certain characters I

[01:12:13] [SPEAKER_01]: just feel like like you know like when Asim was writing this someone should have like stepped

[01:12:18] [SPEAKER_01]: in and be like yeah somebody want to go for a walk yeah you're gonna go for a walk

[01:12:23] [SPEAKER_01]: we can come back to this option they can have a sandwich

[01:12:25] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah like yeah somebody should have stepped in the door and be like yeah so they want to go for a walk

[01:12:29] [SPEAKER_01]: and I think I think that would have fixed a lot of the problems with this show I think he just

[01:12:33] [SPEAKER_01]: kind of got too much into his head and like no one stepped in and went like I don't think this

[01:12:38] [SPEAKER_01]: is a narrative choice that's working but like but like I'm glad we took a swing and I'm glad

[01:12:43] [SPEAKER_01]: like you know like he did like you don't like I enjoy watching like good cinematography

[01:12:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I think like asked me to like a really really good job with like the visual language of the

[01:12:54] [SPEAKER_01]: visual I just wish it had more towards writing

[01:12:59] [SPEAKER_06]: yeah so Joy did this conversation convince you to watch the last three episodes that you missed

[01:13:05] [SPEAKER_05]: no maybe I'll watch is the fourth episode where they have the mushroom trip so maybe I'll complete

[01:13:11] [SPEAKER_06]: that okay that's a fun thing to watch can I also say can I also say that like we're talking

[01:13:18] [SPEAKER_06]: about you know the certain themes that are clearly uh lived through by the writers

[01:13:24] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah yeah yeah yeah like mushroom trips to be a fixing family

[01:13:32] [SPEAKER_06]: trauma this is a very specific choice it's a very specific thing just saying so yeah uh yeah

[01:13:38] [SPEAKER_06]: we see you we see you I should do that I should drug my family and see what happens

[01:13:43] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't speak on the behalf of the podcast but I am very pro with mushrooms why

[01:13:50] [SPEAKER_05]: but as far as Barzakh is concerned I don't think I feel the urge to go back to watch this series

[01:13:55] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't feel convinced but that there's enough positives for me to complete this story

[01:14:00] [SPEAKER_05]: life is short there's too much content and I'm happy that you know Asimovasi made this

[01:14:06] [SPEAKER_05]: he took a swing as you guys said and um yeah this is probably like his zero you know like Anand

[01:14:12] [SPEAKER_05]: that he gave to the swing and uh it just feels like he lost objectivity there's lots of ideas

[01:14:19] [SPEAKER_05]: that sort of felt complete in his head but when he called it out for us it just felt like you

[01:14:25] [SPEAKER_06]: know an incomplete trailer yeah yeah that's that's a good I'm ready what about you final words

[01:14:30] [SPEAKER_00]: and words um I disagree that I wouldn't recommend this to anybody that I would I would recommend it

[01:14:37] [SPEAKER_00]: to a very specific type of person um like somebody who's like really like either somebody who's like

[01:14:43] [SPEAKER_00]: really young or somebody who like enjoys slower paced cinema um which is an increasing rarity

[01:14:52] [SPEAKER_00]: in our world today because like Sujoy said everything is about content and there's so much

[01:14:58] [SPEAKER_00]: of it to consume but this is not for people who want to consume content this is for people who

[01:15:04] [SPEAKER_00]: want to just let the the cinematic side of cinema wash over you you know like this if this had been

[01:15:12] [SPEAKER_00]: a movie and he had released it on the big screen it would have been a considerably different

[01:15:18] [SPEAKER_00]: experience yeah and I think um I think Asimovasi would still have hated it but I think the

[01:15:24] [SPEAKER_00]: other three on this podcast would have had a much more favorable reaction to him and I feel like

[01:15:30] [SPEAKER_06]: been the most positive honestly I really didn't like this and I really feel I've tried my best to show

[01:15:38] [SPEAKER_00]: a positive life that it would have it would have landed much better Asimovasi if the you know the

[01:15:43] [SPEAKER_00]: sound of drunken teeth hadn't come through but uh but also yeah I just want to like

[01:15:53] [SPEAKER_00]: point out to the people who usually write in talking about how like Asimovasi is such a

[01:15:57] [SPEAKER_00]: hater about like village life and blah blah blah I just want you to like notice that this is not

[01:16:02] [SPEAKER_00]: like India specific he hates village life everywhere including Pakistan so like you know

[01:16:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I hope like you got that out of your system now um I'm an equal opportunity hater yes

[01:16:14] [SPEAKER_06]: village yes and now you have the best village by the way I hated it there too so I'm just

[01:16:22] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah so I would actually recommend this series if tumblr was still the social media phenomenon

[01:16:30] [SPEAKER_00]: that it was like you know like 10 15 years ago this movie would have I mean this series would

[01:16:37] [SPEAKER_00]: have just gone through it like wildfire like yeah people would have obsessed over this there would

[01:16:44] [SPEAKER_00]: have been like so much fanfic written about this series you won't even like believe it

[01:16:51] [SPEAKER_00]: unfortunately we live in you know much worse times now so yes but uh yeah but if there but

[01:17:02] [SPEAKER_00]: there's still like I mean the thing that drove tumblr is this need to search for meaning

[01:17:09] [SPEAKER_00]: amongst like you know a certain part of the population which I think is still there like you

[01:17:14] [SPEAKER_00]: know it's sort of like humming under the surface and I think to those people as they will discover

[01:17:21] [SPEAKER_00]: this series and because it's on youtube they will discover this series at some point

[01:17:28] [SPEAKER_00]: and when they do I think some people will like really connect with it and even the ones that

[01:17:34] [SPEAKER_00]: don't connect with it this is a very different visual style than what they're used to in like most

[01:17:40] [SPEAKER_00]: cinema or like most shows that you see out of the subcontinent right now be Pakistan or India

[01:17:47] [SPEAKER_00]: and I think like that at least will grab like few people and like maybe I don't know like you

[01:17:53] [SPEAKER_00]: know if you're from like I don't know a small town in Pakistan or even in India or some other

[01:18:00] [SPEAKER_00]: part of the world and you see this and maybe you learn something nice about the world maybe you

[01:18:06] [SPEAKER_00]: know like some of that earnestness plays off good for them you know um and like emin said I'm glad

[01:18:13] [SPEAKER_00]: that he he took the swing uh it was a miss for me but that doesn't mean that I didn't like it good

[01:18:21] [SPEAKER_06]: let's wrap it up here emin where can people find you online well I'm on twitter at blue magic

[01:18:26] [SPEAKER_01]: boxes I wasn't even supposed to be on twitter as blue magic boxes I was just like a 15 year old

[01:18:30] [SPEAKER_01]: mouthing off and then I'm beginning so now I'm just there so um yeah I pitched it to someone

[01:18:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I pitched it to someone so um I would be if I it ever comes out I'm a lucky person if I ever write

[01:18:45] [SPEAKER_01]: it and it ever comes out it will be somewhere I would like it it's gonna be on twitter like a

[01:18:49] [SPEAKER_00]: link would be on twitter like I will post it on my profile yeah sounds good yeah amrita where

[01:19:00] [SPEAKER_05]: joy you can find me on twitter instagram and tiktok at 93k and you can follow khan dan

[01:19:05] [SPEAKER_06]: podcast on all our socials at khan dan podcast drop us an email at you podcasting at gmail.com

[01:19:11] [SPEAKER_06]: I'd really love to hear your thoughts about barzakh you know maybe somebody found something

[01:19:15] [SPEAKER_06]: that we didn't find or you know some alternative reads I would love to read them but yeah thank

[01:19:20] [SPEAKER_06]: you for listening and we'll be back with a new episode very soon