Lewis Hamilton to Ferrari - GOAT meets the Prancing Horse

[00:00:02] Before we begin, I wanted to give a huge shout out to the folks at Amazon Music for partnering with us on this episode of the Inside Line F1 Podcast.

[00:00:10] But more on this later, right then, let's get right into today's episode.

[00:00:35] Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the podcast where we have Mr. Shocked, Mr. Excited and Mr. Anshish on the show.

[00:00:42] My name is Somal Alora. I'm the voice of the Mora GP Indian Grand Prix and also of the Indian Supercross Racing League.

[00:00:49] I am Mr. Anshish because I don't know how Lewis is going to work out.

[00:00:53] I'll introduce you to Mr. Excited, Kunal Shah.

[00:00:57] He is the former marketing head of the Force India Formula One team and, can we call you, Lewis Hamilton Fan Kunal?

[00:01:03] Come on, now's the time.

[00:01:05] Well, you can, yeah. This time around, definitely you can because I'm excited with what Lewis is going to do at Ferrari.

[00:01:12] And we have Mr. Shocked, the guy whose numbers normally shock the entire world.

[00:01:17] F1 Stads Guru, the man who's been the official statistician of the Indian Racing League but also more importantly,

[00:01:23] has written for platforms like Autosport, Motorsport.com and also is a part of the WTF1 talent network.

[00:01:29] Mr. Shocked, does that explain it well, Sindhiram?

[00:01:32] Doesn't explain it better. I'm absolutely shocked about this move and also very, very excited to see what goes down next year.

[00:01:39] Okay then, let's get right into it. Why has Hamilton moved to Ferrari?

[00:01:43] Let's listen in on this episode of the Inside Line F1 Podcast.

[00:01:46] Guys, mentally, has it sunk in yet? Straight up. It hasn't for me. Just a copyright image of, just a Photoshop image rather I'd say,

[00:01:56] of Hamilton in a Ferrari suit has got me tripping over my words. Has it sunk in yet Kunal? I still don't believe it.

[00:02:03] Yeah, well, for me, I was like at some point sort of expecting something to happen because the Hamilton-Masai-D story

[00:02:11] hasn't really gone the way it is. So I'm not really surprised. Definitely sunk in overnight for me.

[00:02:16] Come on, I mean... It's just... It's not right, Sindhiram. It's just...

[00:02:26] How do you...

[00:02:27] It's definitely not right in my opinion at least. If Kunal expected that to happen at some point,

[00:02:34] I definitely didn't. I thought this was all rumors just to keep the winter break and the off-season a little spicy.

[00:02:40] But when things really started ramping up yesterday, I'm like, wow, this is happening.

[00:02:45] And 12 hours after the announcement, I woke up and that's the first thing I thought of in the morning.

[00:02:50] Is he actually going to Ferrari? It's still not sunken for me. It's going to take a little bit of time.

[00:02:54] I mean, I met 15 friends yesterday. Good. It's great to meet friends.

[00:03:00] But normally we talk about random things in life, about public transport, about cricket, about politics, something or the other.

[00:03:06] All 15 friends, none of who by the way watched Formula One had only one question in mind.

[00:03:11] Why has Hamilton gone to Ferrari? Let's get right into it guys.

[00:03:15] Why has Lewis Hamilton gone to Ferrari? And I have an opinion on this.

[00:03:19] Lewis Hamilton, you are 35 or 30 years old. You've won everything there is to win.

[00:03:23] Seven world championships, over 100 grand prix. You have all the money in the world.

[00:03:26] $50 million a year through the series. So much else to sponsorship.

[00:03:30] What do you do now? You still are in the age to drive a race car.

[00:03:33] Where do you go to the team that got you dreaming about the sport in the first place?

[00:03:38] You go out there to achieve your passions and to follow your dreams.

[00:03:42] You go to Ferrari. And in the process, there's surely got to be lots of money making as well recognized.

[00:03:48] I mean, he's now in the stage where he's got nothing to prove.

[00:03:51] Might as well just check off those little bucket list things that you do in life.

[00:03:56] Yeah, it is definitely a big money move.

[00:03:59] But of course, as you mentioned, it's the money is not the motivation after all the money that he's made for so many years of being in the limelight in Formula One.

[00:04:09] To my mind, the move is for two reasons. First is ambitions and aspirations.

[00:04:13] He clearly has not been convinced by Mercedes long term plans.

[00:04:18] And that's why he said if I'm anyway going to be beaten by Max Wischtappen, doesn't matter what car I'm driving.

[00:04:23] I'm going to try and drive a different car and see if something else works elsewhere.

[00:04:27] And it just so happens to be Ferrari at this moment.

[00:04:31] And then of course, Ferrari being Ferrari itself.

[00:04:33] But I also believe there's another reason for this move, which is for brand Lewis Hamilton.

[00:04:38] This is not sporting, but this is down to the last two years.

[00:04:43] Max Wischtappen's dominance has literally taken the conversation away from Lewis Hamilton.

[00:04:49] By Lewis Hamilton going to Ferrari.

[00:04:52] That's a way of bringing himself, his brand back in the limelight in the conversations.

[00:04:57] And that's what's happened in the last 24 hours since this rumor.

[00:05:01] Imagine this. Everyone is now not bothered about how much Max is going to win in 2024.

[00:05:07] But everyone's looking forward to the first time Lewis actually appears in Ferrari overalls.

[00:05:12] First time he drives a lap.

[00:05:13] First time he does something else with that Ferrari.

[00:05:16] So people are literally just saying, can we forget 24? Can we go to 25?

[00:05:20] Why? Because it's Lewis in Ferrari and the conversations are back in Lewis Hamilton's camp.

[00:05:25] And that I think ladies and gentlemen is also one of the big reasons why Lewis chose to make this move.

[00:05:32] But I mean Sundaram, imagine how romantic Ferrari becomes again.

[00:05:36] It's just, it's wrong.

[00:05:38] But this is beautiful anyway.

[00:05:40] Imagine the posters, imagine the ads, imagine the first time Hamilton makes a mistake with Ferrari.

[00:05:44] Or Ferrari bottles a strategy the first time.

[00:05:46] Even that will be a beautiful, lovely moment, right?

[00:05:49] It absolutely will. And that's the thing.

[00:05:52] I was amazed at the way the internet went crazy yesterday.

[00:05:56] And for sure you have people of different loyalties supporting different drivers in different teams.

[00:06:01] But I sensed that everyone was excited about this.

[00:06:05] Everyone was looking forward to this.

[00:06:06] And me being a self-proclaimed Fernando Alonso fan, I myself am excited to see Lewis Hamilton

[00:06:13] climb into that Ferrari and take his first laps in that car.

[00:06:16] It just makes the whole fan base love the sport, love the partnership.

[00:06:23] And in my opinion, Lewis Hamilton didn't have to do this at all.

[00:06:27] He could have just stayed with Mercedes, a team or a brand that he's been associated with for 25 years.

[00:06:33] He's never driven any F1 car apart without a Mercedes engine.

[00:06:38] At the age of 40 next year, he wants to step into a Ferrari engine, a new environment,

[00:06:43] a new team, new people who are around him.

[00:06:45] And he wants to take on that challenge.

[00:06:47] He doesn't have to do that, but he wants to do that.

[00:06:50] And that's incredible in my opinion.

[00:06:52] It is. And you know, to me exactly that is the excitement.

[00:06:56] Maybe he's just realizing that he needs...

[00:07:00] He's still at the peak of his driving as we've seen in 2023.

[00:07:03] And he realizes he needs to mix it up.

[00:07:06] He needs to get excited by a new challenge.

[00:07:09] He needs to get excited with the fact that he's going to try and bring Ferrari to winning ways again.

[00:07:15] Lots have tried.

[00:07:17] Almost all of them have failed except for Michael Schumacher.

[00:07:22] Could he be the one who goes and brings Ferrari to their winning ways

[00:07:28] and get that one extra title over Michael as well?

[00:07:32] Because he's not just believing in Ferrari for 25,

[00:07:37] but also the new regulatory period that starts in 2026.

[00:07:41] The new power unit that will be built then,

[00:07:43] the new arrow regulations that will come in as well.

[00:07:46] So it's a lot about the belief that he also has in Ferrari.

[00:07:50] This also means that Lewis Hamilton is here to stay for the next several years

[00:07:55] in Formula 1 which personally speaking,

[00:07:57] during his driving talent I'm super glad.

[00:07:59] I mean I would love to see him continue just the way we want for example,

[00:08:04] and this is not about Fernando Lanza anymore,

[00:08:06] at least not this episode,

[00:08:08] just the way we want to see how Fernando continues into his 40s and drives.

[00:08:11] Similarly, how better will Lewis get as he gets into his 40s

[00:08:16] as he now sort of gets into his Ferrari mode,

[00:08:19] which I'm pretty sure he's thinking,

[00:08:21] you guys spoke of the first race, the first mistake, the first strategy.

[00:08:24] I'm sure you all remember the first time Lewis went from McLaren to Mercedes

[00:08:28] and he pitted, he actually drove into the McLaren pit box

[00:08:32] and then the McLaren mechanics were like,

[00:08:34] no no go go go it's the other one

[00:08:36] and then he finally drove into the Mercedes pit box.

[00:08:38] I'd love to see something like that happen just for old times sake.

[00:08:42] And you're actually right,

[00:08:43] I think since Mercedes is second in the championship and Ferrari is third,

[00:08:46] so I think Mercedes's pit box comes before Ferrari in the pit lane as well.

[00:08:52] But the other point is,

[00:08:54] usually Ferrari is not a place where you would retire at,

[00:08:58] I mean unless you're talking about someone like a Giancarlo Fizzicolo or someone.

[00:09:01] But if you look at the prominent names,

[00:09:03] even a Michael Schumacher was pushed out,

[00:09:07] a Kimi Raikkonen or a Sebastian Wettel,

[00:09:10] Ferrari is usually not a place for older drivers

[00:09:14] and Ferrari is usually not a place to retire.

[00:09:16] And if I actually went and checked this,

[00:09:18] the last time a prominent name retired at Ferrari was Mario Andretti,

[00:09:24] someone who's been in the news of lately.

[00:09:27] On one of actually two races back in 1982,

[00:09:31] since didiopironi was injured.

[00:09:34] And the one before that was Jodi Schechter.

[00:09:36] These were the last two drivers who ended the careers with Ferrari

[00:09:41] and it's incredible that Ferrari are trusting someone at the age of 40.

[00:09:45] But it's not the same Ferrari anymore.

[00:09:47] They kind of have to.

[00:09:50] Let's talk a little bit about why would Ferrari push out Carlos Sainz

[00:09:54] to get Lewis Hamilton?

[00:09:55] I mean Carlos Sainz is the hot property that almost every single team would snap up instantly.

[00:10:00] So why do you push him out?

[00:10:02] What's the whole deal here?

[00:10:03] And rather also firstly, how do you push him out?

[00:10:06] How can Lewis Hamilton get out of a serious contract

[00:10:09] that was meant to go beyond 2025 to actually get in there?

[00:10:13] That's where a release clause comes in,

[00:10:14] it's not Kunal where the team would have come to a certain settlement

[00:10:17] where Hamilton would only get a certain part of a salary

[00:10:21] to be able to leave a Ferrari or maybe there might be some sort

[00:10:24] that Ferrari might have to pay to lose Hamilton out.

[00:10:26] What sort of a deal do you reckon might have happened over there?

[00:10:28] Because normally in football at least,

[00:10:30] the teams that want to get the player or in this case the driver

[00:10:34] would pay the release clause to free the other person from their contract

[00:10:37] and then sign them on to a new deal.

[00:10:39] Is that similar to how it works in Formula One then?

[00:10:42] Not entirely. I don't think this is so much about the payments.

[00:10:46] I think this is all about the number of points that Mercedes would have scored

[00:10:51] within the period of the release clause.

[00:10:54] So give you an example, the last two years Mercedes has scored one win

[00:10:58] and they have never won the World Championship with either the driver

[00:11:02] or the team constructors championship.

[00:11:04] So that in automation would have been a part of a release clause

[00:11:08] that from the driver who's won in this case, Max Verstappen,

[00:11:11] how many percentage points are you away from them

[00:11:13] or the team that's won, how many percentage points are you away from them and so on.

[00:11:17] So it's a bit of a simple at the same time complex web of formulae

[00:11:24] that come into play and I think it's purely down to performance

[00:11:28] and if you actually don't perform and you being in this case

[00:11:31] it's the team Mercedes then as a driver I am allowed to move elsewhere

[00:11:36] without having a remanaged on a contract if you get what I'm saying.

[00:11:40] So it was purely down to Mercedes' performance

[00:11:44] that Lewis was able to turn around and say yes,

[00:11:46] despite having signed an extension just five or six months ago

[00:11:49] I am now choosing to move away and go elsewhere

[00:11:53] and that's what this release clause is

[00:11:55] and I'm glad we're asking the question because everyone has been talking

[00:11:58] release clause, release clause but it's really important to understand

[00:12:01] what that release clause is.

[00:12:03] Every team has it, every driver has it.

[00:12:06] The last time a team may have used this was in the case of Daniel Ricardo

[00:12:11] where he was way off Landon Norris as well if you guys remember.

[00:12:15] So teams use it, this time is a classic case of a driver using it to jump ship.

[00:12:20] But then Carlos Sainz, I mean, I feel for him because you guys know

[00:12:26] I am the biggest Carlos Sainz fan.

[00:12:29] I predict him to win every single race.

[00:12:31] My heart was broken and as always in classic fashion

[00:12:35] whenever anything formula one comes up be it a race,

[00:12:38] be it a breaking news like Hamilton joining Ferrari or anything whatsoever

[00:12:42] the last thought in the world always has to be guess who Carlos Sainz.

[00:12:47] Again, Ferrari appeared in like a stepchild in a way

[00:12:50] but it's kind of funny you know because Ferrari could have actually chosen Leclerc

[00:12:54] to be the one sacrificed for Lewis but they chose Sainz.

[00:12:58] I know Leclerc had a contract beyond 25 but still Lewis did as well

[00:13:01] so that doesn't matter you can really change them around.

[00:13:03] Why did they go for Sainz over Ham, I mean why did they go for Sainz

[00:13:08] to be left out of the team instead of Leclerc?

[00:13:10] Clearly they have a favorite even though Leclerc is kind of like

[00:13:14] the clumsy kid who always ends up making the mistakes

[00:13:17] it's always a little dirty, a little shabby, more emotional, more romantic

[00:13:21] Ferrari love him a lot more than their second more intelligent kid

[00:13:25] who's constantly doing everything right, constantly getting better

[00:13:28] constantly getting sharper but even then when they have to make a choice

[00:13:32] they'll go for the clumsy kid that's what they've done with Leclerc

[00:13:35] they clearly are so emotionally and romantically biased

[00:13:39] you can tell. But where next for Carlos Sainz guys

[00:13:42] I mean this really Sundaram leaves him with so little options

[00:13:45] you could either firstly hope that the Audi project comes along

[00:13:49] and wants you which I think they would want him

[00:13:51] or you kind of hope that something comes along at Red Bull

[00:13:54] but if that does happen I think Carlos Sainz is in such a desperate state

[00:13:58] he has to do anything to win, I don't think he can spend any more time

[00:14:02] lingering around in a midfield team. If Red Bull comes calling

[00:14:05] even though he has to be a second driver or take a pay cut

[00:14:07] I think Carlos Sainz is going and fast.

[00:14:10] Oh absolutely and I feel Carlos is a little hard done

[00:14:15] by all of this but the fact is that when Lewis Hamilton is on the market

[00:14:19] you can't say no just like you can't say no to Ferrari Drive

[00:14:22] and that's why all of this has happened

[00:14:25] and in Carlos Sainz's I mean in that respect

[00:14:30] he's 29 by the time he leaves Ferrari he's going to be 30

[00:14:33] and this is ideally when you're at the peak of your career

[00:14:36] he's winning races, he was only one to win a race for Ferrari

[00:14:39] last year or the only non-Red Bull driver to win a race last year

[00:14:43] so he's obviously going to want to win more and more

[00:14:46] is he going to go back to a stake or is he going to go back to an Audi

[00:14:49] but probably might end up doing well in 26 or 27

[00:14:53] I feel perhaps not because now the dynamics has changed

[00:14:56] now that Hamilton and Leclerc are going to be partying next year

[00:14:59] I think they're going to be forces to reckon with

[00:15:02] for the constructors championship next year already

[00:15:04] this might force Red Bull's hand to look at a more competitive number two

[00:15:10] I think they might not go for Daniel Ricciardo

[00:15:12] I think they might be knocking at Carlos Sainz's door

[00:15:15] and I think if that goes through

[00:15:17] I think Sainz is going to take up that seat

[00:15:19] even if he is a number two driver

[00:15:21] I think he's going to take up that seat

[00:15:22] and you very interestingly someone you asked

[00:15:24] why Carlos Sainz and not Charlotte Clair

[00:15:27] as the scapegoat to get Lewis Hamilton in

[00:15:30] clearly Charlotte Clair is by far one of the greatest of all times

[00:15:35] when it comes to single lap base

[00:15:37] they've proved that

[00:15:39] and if you were to ask anyone

[00:15:42] maybe just not yourself because you're a big Carlos Sainz fan

[00:15:45] I remember every race last year you were like

[00:15:48] Carlos Sainz is going to win and then he finally won in Singapore

[00:15:51] but the truth be told here in this case as well

[00:15:56] Hamilton, Leclerc probably already Faradi has the best bearing

[00:16:01] for 2025

[00:16:03] also the first time since the last time they had

[00:16:07] so when they had Carlos Sainz and Charlotte Clair

[00:16:10] Faradi for the first time in history didn't have a world champion driver

[00:16:14] and one of the youngest pairings in history

[00:16:16] so they may have recognized along with Fredrik Masoor

[00:16:20] now at the helm and so on

[00:16:22] that we need a world champion, we need somebody with

[00:16:25] experience with that work ethic that comes in

[00:16:28] not to say Carlos Sainz in our work ethic or Charlotte Clair don't

[00:16:32] but just Lewis bringing in his world championship mentality

[00:16:36] his processes and so on and that's what they are of course

[00:16:39] needing Hamilton for

[00:16:41] and for Carlos Sainz I just have one real statement

[00:16:44] which is with a seat available at Red Bull

[00:16:47] and a seat available at Masadi

[00:16:49] if he doesn't get into one of those seats

[00:16:52] it would be a shame for what that guy has actually shown

[00:16:56] against a Charlotte Clair in Faradi

[00:16:58] let's remember that he has not been comprehensively

[00:17:02] out driven or beaten by Charlotte Clair

[00:17:05] he's been the intelligent driver

[00:17:07] and I really hope Faradi doesn't relegate him

[00:17:10] to a seat on that pit wall just because they need him there as well

[00:17:14] that's such a good point, that is such a good point

[00:17:17] with Carlos Sainz it's almost like the teams will die to get him

[00:17:21] it's just a question of where

[00:17:23] and let's start with talking about Masadi's

[00:17:26] so if you are Masadi's

[00:17:28] a driver who's won literally everything with you

[00:17:31] is now gone

[00:17:32] you're one team leader, you have a George Russell

[00:17:34] but what type of driver do you need for your second driver

[00:17:38] normally if you're looking at Faradi they need it in Alpha

[00:17:41] they need it in A-Lister

[00:17:42] if you're looking at Red Bull they need a good support number 2 driver

[00:17:45] with Masadi's they already had two Alphers

[00:17:48] fighting each other going head to head

[00:17:50] almost coming to the point where they would kill each other

[00:17:52] so what do you need right now

[00:17:53] do you need a driver to pacify the situation

[00:17:55] do you need a Valtteri Bottas type

[00:17:57] I don't think you do because now is the stage where Masadi's

[00:17:59] actually isn't fighting for championships

[00:18:01] they need someone to score as many points as they possibly can

[00:18:04] where will they look

[00:18:06] I think Kala Sainz would be such a smart option

[00:18:09] will you hear me out though

[00:18:10] Alex Albany

[00:18:11] if they can get him out of Williams

[00:18:14] and build a car around him

[00:18:15] I mean that guy is finally getting into the zone

[00:18:18] is he tough enough to handle the pressure in the series

[00:18:20] and compete against Russell

[00:18:21] probably now he is

[00:18:23] but that one move

[00:18:24] that would really really excite me

[00:18:27] not so much for me because

[00:18:29] you know for frankly Masadi's isn't a bit of a soup

[00:18:32] they don't have a car that's working

[00:18:33] and their second driver

[00:18:35] I'm not saying number 2

[00:18:36] I'm saying second George Russell

[00:18:37] didn't really have one of the best seasons in 2023 as well

[00:18:40] so they've suddenly lost their one big driver

[00:18:43] they've lost you know

[00:18:44] can you imagine that zero part concept

[00:18:46] has cost them so much more than they ever imagined

[00:18:49] it's cost them Lewis Hamilton

[00:18:50] literally right

[00:18:52] in my mind

[00:18:53] I think they need an A-Lister

[00:18:55] Masadi's need

[00:18:57] let's remember this racing

[00:18:59] this racing team

[00:19:00] Somil also needs to

[00:19:03] build into the brand Masadi's Benz

[00:19:06] it is Lewis Hamilton

[00:19:09] and his ability to go on a car poster

[00:19:11] and be able to sell that car

[00:19:13] they need somebody like that

[00:19:15] right

[00:19:16] that's typically how Formula 1 teams

[00:19:19] have signed drivers as well

[00:19:21] Charlotte Claire's commercial abilities

[00:19:23] as well were one of the reasons

[00:19:25] why Ferrari looks and whatever the personalities he brought in

[00:19:27] why Ferrari chose to go behind him

[00:19:29] even though he wasn't

[00:19:31] and he still isn't a world champion

[00:19:33] in Masadi's case

[00:19:34] I would love for them to defy

[00:19:36] this conventional signing tactic

[00:19:39] and get somebody like an Albin

[00:19:41] could they give Andrey Akhimi, Anton Nelly

[00:19:43] another season

[00:19:44] his first season in F2

[00:19:46] and waited out till then

[00:19:48] could they go to Fernando Alonso

[00:19:50] could they go to Carlos Sainz

[00:19:52] but in my mind

[00:19:53] they have a world champion

[00:19:55] they can sign

[00:19:57] they have a world champion who

[00:19:59] Toto Wolf said we would have had him in the car

[00:20:01] had we got space

[00:20:03] and that is Sebastian Fettel

[00:20:05] they can bring him back

[00:20:07] he's German

[00:20:08] they can bring him back

[00:20:10] he has the same statesmen like abilities

[00:20:12] same ethic

[00:20:14] maybe better ethic

[00:20:15] better processes

[00:20:16] better mentality

[00:20:17] than Lewis Hamilton

[00:20:19] if we remember him from before

[00:20:22] this would be a lot like the plot of Driven

[00:20:24] to kind of help you a new young gun

[00:20:26] who is really just getting over there

[00:20:28] you hire a former world champion

[00:20:30] Sebastian Fettel as Silvester Stallone

[00:20:32] are we going to see George Russell in Fettel racing down the streets of Miami

[00:20:36] without Helmut's Nausell Miro?

[00:20:37] I would love to see that happening

[00:20:39] I would love to see that happening

[00:20:41] and which kind of just brings me to my logical choice

[00:20:44] because I would think that someone like an Alex Albon

[00:20:48] would come into that team

[00:20:49] he's doing really well

[00:20:51] and Williams via James Wawels

[00:20:53] also have ties with Toto Wolf and Mercedes

[00:20:56] so that seems like a logical choice for me

[00:20:58] but like Kunal says

[00:21:00] that's not how these teams work

[00:21:02] that's not how brands work

[00:21:03] and Mercedes needs something to kind of

[00:21:05] peg things back in their favor

[00:21:07] even not by a lot obviously

[00:21:09] but I think Sebastian Fettel is that person

[00:21:12] I would love to see

[00:21:13] and this is where my illogical or lesser likely choice comes in

[00:21:16] which is I would love to see Fernando Alonso

[00:21:18] he is like an Alistar

[00:21:19] he knows

[00:21:21] I had to put it in

[00:21:23] I had to bring that in

[00:21:24] but I think that's also an option

[00:21:27] but I think bringing in Sebastian Fettel

[00:21:29] a German

[00:21:30] I think if it's right

[00:21:32] if it's very well in that Mercedes structure

[00:21:35] it does and you know

[00:21:37] interestingly I think this isn't going to be another Schumacher

[00:21:40] versus Fettel for a seat

[00:21:42] for a vacant seat

[00:21:44] because make Schumacher

[00:21:45] nobody's talking about him

[00:21:46] make Schumacher is available as well

[00:21:48] and you know

[00:21:49] the way Torto Wolf has been promoting make Schumacher

[00:21:52] last season for a seat

[00:21:54] elsewhere

[00:21:55] this seat specifically being at Williams

[00:21:57] let's see if he walks the talk

[00:21:59] and outputs making a seat available

[00:22:01] in Mercedes as well

[00:22:03] and I think all of this like I said gets a little tougher

[00:22:05] for Mercedes given that George Russell's gone a bit

[00:22:07] all over the place in 2023

[00:22:09] so what about make Schumacher guys

[00:22:11] that would be a brilliant comeback

[00:22:13] for him as well

[00:22:15] or what about the dream that started

[00:22:17] all the way back in 2016

[00:22:19] and had so many chances of coming true

[00:22:21] but never quite did

[00:22:23] Esteban O'Conn

[00:22:24] Torto you're his manager

[00:22:26] get the man on the car

[00:22:27] finally do something

[00:22:28] if you really believe in him

[00:22:30] which is what you say you do

[00:22:32] now's the time to back your words

[00:22:34] maybe get him or

[00:22:36] another driver who was promised a Mercedes drive

[00:22:38] quite a while ago

[00:22:39] but never quite got in there

[00:22:41] Roman Grosjean

[00:22:42] you

[00:22:43] have a due pending with Mercedes

[00:22:45] get it cleared my friend

[00:22:46] now is the time

[00:22:48] but let's

[00:22:49] let's finally also talk about

[00:22:51] the dynamics within Ferrari

[00:22:53] two alphas in the team

[00:22:54] before we go to Ferrari

[00:22:57] just one comment that came to my mind

[00:22:59] one of the things that

[00:23:00] one of the things that Mercedes also embraced

[00:23:03] fully

[00:23:04] was Lewis Hamilton's commitment

[00:23:06] to a lot of off track issues

[00:23:08] remember

[00:23:09] the W13

[00:23:11] the W14

[00:23:14] has been black

[00:23:15] or at least the W14 was black

[00:23:17] I don't so much so think about the W13

[00:23:19] they actually turned

[00:23:21] from silver arrows to black arrows

[00:23:23] to support Lewis Hamilton's BLM

[00:23:25] and all the other initiatives that are there

[00:23:28] will they continue on that path

[00:23:31] even after Lewis Hamilton

[00:23:33] will they show that they are committed to those

[00:23:35] causes even after Lewis Hamilton

[00:23:38] I would really really hope they do

[00:23:41] because it's got nothing to do with the driver and a personality

[00:23:43] it's got to do with

[00:23:44] lean her in thinking

[00:23:46] and the approach that the team has

[00:23:48] but that's all about

[00:23:50] Mercedes a lot of excitement

[00:23:52] to see who Mercedes eventually brings

[00:23:54] and how they sort of continue on the path

[00:23:56] that Lewis has put them on

[00:23:58] hang on you've opened a can of worms

[00:24:00] can you imagine

[00:24:02] will Ferrari back this up

[00:24:04] will Ferrari tolerate the statements

[00:24:06] because it's now

[00:24:08] kind of like

[00:24:10] you go for the prettiest girl around right

[00:24:12] and she will have flaws

[00:24:14] she will end up saying things that he sometimes go

[00:24:16] like huh did you really say that

[00:24:18] did you really do that

[00:24:20] and Ferrari will look at Lewis and go

[00:24:22] do you really mean this buddy

[00:24:24] do you really want to party until that long at night

[00:24:26] do you really want to be around those sort of people

[00:24:28] and say those sort of things that will probably not fit in well

[00:24:30] to the conservative Italian mindset

[00:24:32] I know for a fact that they have signed him on

[00:24:34] but on the board meeting there's going to be some head bashing about

[00:24:37] what is this guy

[00:24:39] what is he doing what is he saying what do we do with him

[00:24:41] one and a half years and wait till how the board

[00:24:43] actually behaves with him it's going to be so much fun

[00:24:46] but Sundaram

[00:24:48] where do we go to next we have a few really interesting

[00:24:50] stats about this move that we have to discuss

[00:24:53] before we actually start to discuss the dynamics

[00:24:55] within the team at Ferrari

[00:24:57] so what are those numbers like what do the numbers say about

[00:24:59] Hamilton moving to Ferrari

[00:25:01] and I like I mentioned this earlier Ferrari is not a place

[00:25:04] for you to be retiring or for the older drivers

[00:25:07] it really used to happen a lot during the 1950s

[00:25:09] and 60s because a lot of drivers

[00:25:11] started very late in their careers

[00:25:13] but the fact is that Lewis Hamilton when he debuts

[00:25:16] with Ferrari next year that means he's going to be 40 years old

[00:25:19] and that's the oldest a driver has debuted

[00:25:22] for Ferrari since one Manuel Fangio

[00:25:25] in 1956 only the goats

[00:25:28] debut for Ferrari that late into their careers

[00:25:34] what a crazy crazy stat

[00:25:36] and think about it now you have a goat in the team

[00:25:40] and you have your favourite prodigal prodigal

[00:25:44] you have your favourite prodigal flawed child at home as well

[00:25:47] how do you manage the team I know Fred Mr

[00:25:51] doesn't have favourites but if he had two drivers

[00:25:54] who are the closest to his hearts he finally has them now

[00:25:57] I need his team

[00:25:59] I kind of want to be him but I don't want to be him Kunal

[00:26:01] I don't want to make that choice it's too hard

[00:26:03] how do you manage them

[00:26:05] I'd love to be there I mean imagine leading Ferrari

[00:26:07] in Formula 1 having two of the best drivers

[00:26:09] you can literally talk off

[00:26:11] but I think it's going to be fairly simple

[00:26:14] Ferrari will stick to their number one driver policy

[00:26:17] and whoever is ahead on track will get

[00:26:19] will get the preferential call

[00:26:23] that's what it'll be that's something most teams use as well

[00:26:26] remember Lewis never really had a number one driver policy

[00:26:30] either at Mercedes so that doesn't really change

[00:26:33] for Lewis's case in this matter right

[00:26:36] but I think in this case Ferrari may not have

[00:26:39] the best driver on the grid like I said which is Max Wischtappen

[00:26:43] but they've got the best brand in Lewis Hamilton

[00:26:46] and this speaks testimony for Ferrari

[00:26:48] I mean you know one of the other things

[00:26:50] why does Ferrari want Lewis Hamilton

[00:26:52] because this is testimony for their brand

[00:26:54] guys we may not have won a driver's title since 2007

[00:26:58] we've not won a constructors title since 2008

[00:27:01] but we being Ferrari are still

[00:27:04] the most historic and the legendary team of Formula 1

[00:27:08] so much so that even a driver like Lewis Hamilton

[00:27:11] who said no to us literally every year

[00:27:14] for the last 10 years finally said I'm going to race for y'all

[00:27:18] and that is testament to brand Ferrari

[00:27:21] and I would say that's also testimony for

[00:27:24] Fredric Vassour's leadership

[00:27:26] and what he's actually shown in the last one year

[00:27:30] at Ferrari so after all of this driver dynamics

[00:27:33] is pretty much just going to be getting assorted on track

[00:27:36] whoever is up ahead gets the preferential call

[00:27:39] that's I think what Ferrari are going to stick to doing

[00:27:42] and that's a very interesting point that you mentioned

[00:27:44] because if you look at the record charts

[00:27:47] if you take a look at all the most successful drivers

[00:27:50] in F1 history Ferrari has somehow

[00:27:53] managed to snap them at some point in their careers

[00:27:56] Michael Schumacher, Lewis Hamilton, Fernando Alonso

[00:27:59] Sebastian Wettel, Alan Prost, Kimi Raikinen

[00:28:02] one manual fancy the list just goes on and on

[00:28:05] if Ayrton Senna was around he would have also

[00:28:08] driven in that Ferrari and that's what

[00:28:11] the Ferrari pull the brand pull that Ferrari has

[00:28:14] and that's incredible but coming to the whole

[00:28:17] dynamic split like I said Lewis Hamilton didn't have to do this

[00:28:20] he didn't have to go up against a Charlotte look

[00:28:23] and this kind of probably helps answer the question

[00:28:26] which people have been putting up on social media

[00:28:29] what if they had same car who would be faster

[00:28:32] over a single lap or in the race

[00:28:35] and this can go two ways for Lewis Hamilton

[00:28:38] this could probably not obviously destroy

[00:28:41] his legacy but dampen it to buy a little

[00:28:44] at least if he's not able to match Charlotte

[00:28:47] look look and then that's since people will start looking

[00:28:49] at look look more seriously and if then look

[00:28:52] look is not able to match up to Lewis Hamilton

[00:28:54] people are really going to wonder does that multi-year contract

[00:28:57] up on the 2029 does it really make sense

[00:29:00] was he ever this good so that's the thing

[00:29:03] the focus shifts back to Ferrari and their

[00:29:06] drivers how they do individually

[00:29:08] and collectively and that's why this makes this

[00:29:11] in my opinion the biggest transfer

[00:29:14] in F1 history and the most exciting prospect

[00:29:17] in my opinion that's very well said

[00:29:20] and you know Lewis has already shown that he

[00:29:23] has had the run on max for a snap and as good

[00:29:26] as anyone in different cars he's

[00:29:29] shown that George Russell is not up to his calibre

[00:29:32] in the same car for him to now who's the other

[00:29:35] talent left there's Landon Norris and then

[00:29:38] he's now going and taking on Charlotte Claire which I think is

[00:29:41] pretty pretty would you count out my Oscar

[00:29:44] Piaz tree yeah I mean out about he's so close

[00:29:47] to my heart you don't say anything to him I

[00:29:50] will take that as an insult okay no I think

[00:29:53] Oscar Piaz tree has several years before

[00:29:55] before he gets into the same car but could

[00:29:57] Oscar Piaz tree I mean you know

[00:29:59] imagine Zach Brown is listening in to this episode

[00:30:01] saying oh my god I'm so glad I've had

[00:30:03] both the McLaren drivers signed into the

[00:30:05] into the long term but the truth is both

[00:30:07] McLaren drivers we've all been saying

[00:30:09] potential world champions are they really

[00:30:12] gonna win a world championship in that

[00:30:14] McLaren as a customer of Mercedes or

[00:30:17] will one of those two drivers actually be

[00:30:20] breaking contract and going to Mercedes

[00:30:23] in 2025 we've not discussed them just

[00:30:25] because we think that's a contract

[00:30:27] let's remember a contract is only a

[00:30:29] piece of paper when you really want

[00:30:31] to then edge on it okay but but

[00:30:34] this is this is about Lewis Hamilton

[00:30:36] Lewis Hamilton is still possibly in this

[00:30:39] space without having seen driven a single

[00:30:41] lap of the W15 in 2024 you could still

[00:30:45] build the title in that Mercedes this year

[00:30:48] and then end up going to Ferrari next

[00:30:52] year that is also a possibility which

[00:30:54] we are denying just because Lewis has

[00:30:56] said no doesn't mean that W15 is not

[00:30:58] gonna be a good car which is of course

[00:31:00] the puzzle why have they announced now

[00:31:02] even though Lewis is not driven a single

[00:31:05] lap the only reason is when it's such a

[00:31:08] big move that's happening when a decision

[00:31:10] is made you announce it the minute it

[00:31:12] happens it also happened with Sebastian

[00:31:14] Wettel at Ferrari they announced it

[00:31:16] before even the start of the season

[00:31:18] that hey he's gonna go after the end

[00:31:21] of the season so all you know all

[00:31:23] eyes on Lewis how does he actually

[00:31:25] cope how does he get himself

[00:31:27] motivated to still keep doing well at

[00:31:30] Mercedes before he ends up going to

[00:31:32] Ferrari next season the big question on

[00:31:34] everyone's mind will Lewis Hamilton be

[00:31:36] good at Ferrari instantly no if you

[00:31:39] listen to James all just incredible

[00:31:41] interview with high performance he

[00:31:42] mentioned how Lewis goes about his

[00:31:44] business he'll always push the limits

[00:31:46] first get to the limit of the very

[00:31:48] very end of the car and probably make

[00:31:50] some errors under braking probably crash

[00:31:51] out a couple of times probably not

[00:31:53] have enough laps in free practice

[00:31:54] but when he learns the limit of the

[00:31:56] car he instantly gets so much better

[00:31:59] don't expect the first season with

[00:32:01] Ferrari to be good he of course is a

[00:32:03] driver that brings in years and years of

[00:32:05] pedigree and experience and he will be

[00:32:07] able to tweak things around but don't

[00:32:09] expect the first season to be great

[00:32:11] watch him develop with the car

[00:32:13] watch them actually develop the car

[00:32:15] around him as well and maybe just

[00:32:17] maybe I know 2026 is a year of

[00:32:19] a revolution but that's probably the

[00:32:21] best possible time for him to win

[00:32:23] 2025 even the Ferrari might be up

[00:32:25] there even if you lose Hamilton

[00:32:27] learning a car and learning a new

[00:32:29] environment learning how to deal with

[00:32:31] new race engineers learning how to speak

[00:32:33] Italian even though it might be half broken

[00:32:35] we're here or there that takes some

[00:32:37] doing give him time don't bounce on the

[00:32:39] man he's only human he's only human

[00:32:41] and here's a fantastic stat from

[00:32:43] F1 stats guru if Lewis Hamilton

[00:32:46] wins a title with Ferrari which is

[00:32:48] what we are all hoping for right

[00:32:50] he will become the only

[00:32:53] driver or only the first driver

[00:32:56] after Fangio to win a world championship

[00:32:59] with three or more teams he would have

[00:33:01] won with McLaren with Mercedes

[00:33:04] and then with Ferrari that's the

[00:33:06] legacy that he is trying to build

[00:33:09] and go for the golden trilogy the

[00:33:12] only three drivers hey Sundaram I'm

[00:33:14] not gonna mention this you mentioned

[00:33:15] this come on don't be don't be lying

[00:33:17] right there in the chat the drivers

[00:33:19] to race with Mercedes and Ferrari

[00:33:22] if you just take a look at the list

[00:33:24] there's one Manuel Fangio there's Michael

[00:33:26] Schumacher and they're now Lewis

[00:33:28] Hamilton all the goats of Formula

[00:33:31] 1 throughout eras all of them have

[00:33:33] driven for these two teams

[00:33:35] not bad not bad at all but okay

[00:33:38] last thing to close on I know we're

[00:33:40] recording after so long which has

[00:33:42] to make a brief reference to it

[00:33:43] because there was pandemonium all

[00:33:45] the way through I think we should

[00:33:47] specifically have some time for this

[00:33:49] as well but and ready are we

[00:33:52] are we surprised no are we

[00:33:54] annoyed yes a lot if not just

[00:33:58] me collectively just look at our

[00:34:00] Twitter feeds and you can tell all

[00:34:02] of us are pissed absolutely at this

[00:34:05] and also good the style leaving

[00:34:07] are we surprised yes what has happened

[00:34:10] in the background we have absolutely

[00:34:12] no clue because this is a kind of

[00:34:14] weird time to get someone off

[00:34:16] and also replaced him with an

[00:34:18] internal hire if you really really

[00:34:20] wanted to change the culture of a team

[00:34:22] you probably get someone from outside

[00:34:24] so what has gone down there is there

[00:34:26] a fight is there a quarrel a quarrel

[00:34:28] that's probably ended don't have said some

[00:34:30] stuff but it's not substantial enough

[00:34:32] we will discuss all of this and more

[00:34:34] with more depth but folks if you've reached

[00:34:36] to this point thank you so much and

[00:34:38] we have a reward for you it's very

[00:34:40] very soon in a couple of days we're

[00:34:42] going to have our soft now the man

[00:34:44] behind the first India formula one team

[00:34:46] and also Alpine on the show to talk

[00:34:48] about his Alpine journey about why

[00:34:50] that didn't quite work out and

[00:34:52] what were his regrets also what really

[00:34:54] happened that period of time that led to

[00:34:56] Alpine being where they are and also

[00:34:58] answering the big question why can Alpine

[00:35:00] not win a world championship regardless

[00:35:02] of name changes regardless of color

[00:35:04] changes regardless of management changes

[00:35:06] or driver changes what goes on there

[00:35:08] also make sure you listen to the first

[00:35:10] part of that episode that's already live

[00:35:12] on the inside line at one podcast right now

[00:35:14] thank you so much for listening folks

[00:35:16] buy your red Puber shirts let them

[00:35:18] make some money as well and take care

[00:35:20] we'll chat bye bye

[00:35:43] Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode

[00:35:45] of the inside line f1 podcast

[00:35:47] before we ended I just wanted

[00:35:49] to say a huge thank you to Amazon Music

[00:35:51] once again for partnering with us

[00:35:53] on this episode of the podcast