Helmut Marko on 20 years of Red Bull Racing - Inside Line F1 Podcast exclusive

[00:00:18] It is true, it is true. Dr. Helmut Marko is back on the Inside Line F1 Podcast. How cool

[00:00:25] is that? We've been dying to get him back on for such a long time and it's happening

[00:00:30] at last. And this is just part two of a two-part series. We've got another part earlier on

[00:00:36] where we sat down with Dr. Marko after the Dutch Grand Prix to talk about the more present

[00:00:40] affairs about the team. More about how did they end up losing to McLaren at the Dutch GP?

[00:00:46] What's next for the team? How did they approach this whole challenging phase? How did they

[00:00:49] discover Max? What did they think of Kimmy Antonelli and what their benchmarks for Sergio

[00:00:54] Perez should be? That is a part of Part 1. In this episode, we touched down upon the

[00:01:00] 20 years of Red Bull Racing. How did Red Bull become the team that they are today?

[00:01:05] The pivotal moments that got them to victory. The moments that dictate the culture of

[00:01:10] Red Bull Racing and also a few interesting insights on a few drivers that Red Bull wanted

[00:01:14] but didn't get and an engine deal that was about to happen but didn't go through. And

[00:01:19] also what's next for the future of Red Bull Racing? Are they going to list themselves on

[00:01:24] the stock exchange? Are they going to focus on road cars? Here's Dr. Marko to tell

[00:01:28] you about all of that and more. Let's dive in, shall we? Now, Dr. Marko, we have

[00:01:32] you on the podcast to talk about the 20 years of Red Bull Racing. Can you believe

[00:01:37] it firstly? It's been 20. Are you proud of the way the team has come around? And if so,

[00:01:42] what are you most proud of that Red Bull has achieved in the last few years?

[00:01:47] First of all, it was an unbelievable story. Red Bull was a shareholder from Saooba for

[00:01:55] 10 years and majority shareholders but no voting rights and I think the best we achieved

[00:02:04] was the podium. This is amazing. So, and then there was a chance we made a deal with Jaguar,

[00:02:17] with Christian Clean and through these negotiations I was smelling as a chance to get the whole team

[00:02:27] which happened in the end for a very favorable price and Mr. Matishitz was always positive and

[00:02:38] very visionary looking in the future said, yeah, let's try it and these words I remember exactly,

[00:02:45] maybe we can win a Grand Prix. So that's how the story started. And what was the target

[00:02:52] initially? What year did you have in mind for winning the first Grand Prix? Was it 2008 or earlier or

[00:02:58] later? No, no, there was no target. It was just let's try it and the other target was we will do

[00:03:06] it differently. You know, and when we bought Jaguar, we had a lot of changes. We brought an

[00:03:17] energy station, we brought an own magazine, we had some sort of beauty competition and then the end.

[00:03:29] So, and we also hired Christian Horner at that time a very young guy with no formal one experience.

[00:03:38] Yeah, and then the big change came and that was I would say the most important thing was to sign

[00:03:47] Adrian Newey because he was the only one in the team who had championship winning experience

[00:03:56] and he brought all the know-how but also the demands which are necessary to make

[00:04:02] that racing a winning team. I think that was one of the milestones and the next thing was also with

[00:04:12] drivers. We were very proud that we signed Fettel and we signed Per Stappen, both coming out of our

[00:04:20] junior program and that became World Champion. And that is another thing that one of the

[00:04:28] quoting of Monteshichos, we don't buy stars, we make stars. And there's a system if you look at

[00:04:38] football, ice hockey and so on they all have now junior academies or whatever it is called

[00:04:44] and they're trying to build up young sportsmen and bring in to the top in whatever category.

[00:04:52] Hey, this is interesting Dr. Marco. I love the line we make stars and now I want to segue into the

[00:04:59] future by looking at the past because the first star and the only star kind of you guys brought in

[00:05:05] was Adrian Newey and from a management standpoint, you have over a thousand people,

[00:05:10] such a great team unit but I want to ask you does a man make a team or does a team

[00:05:15] make a man? Because with someone like Adrian Newey leaving, surely that's a big pillar

[00:05:21] of the team gone, right? No, you have to make the difference. At that time, nobody had experienced

[00:05:28] how to win races and to win championships. So at that stage a man made a difference. Nowadays,

[00:05:37] the team, as you mentioned we have 2000 people so nowadays the team matters. It's not a single

[00:05:44] man or it changed. You have far more simulation tools, you have so much more data and then the single

[00:05:53] man is not the difference anymore but there was a difference when Newey came.

[00:06:01] But Dr. Marco I also want to understand now that we know Jonathan Wheatley is also leaving

[00:06:05] Red Bull after being a very integral part of the team for nearly two decades.

[00:06:10] He's been very key especially looking after the pit stops. They've been most dominant team over the

[00:06:16] last seven, eight years but in his larger role as a sporting director, how key do you think he was

[00:06:21] in that role and how much was his impact and how difficult is it going to be to replace someone

[00:06:26] like him? It cannot be me, Clee. It was a very important part of the team as you managed,

[00:06:32] as you mentioned our pit stops were a benchmark but not only that the whole way the approach how

[00:06:46] mechanics were trained and also the interaction with the FIA and so on.

[00:06:54] But he's now in the mid 50s and of course he wanted to, he started as a mechanic so it's

[00:07:02] a very astonishing and a very broad career and he wanted to become or get a position

[00:07:11] which is more demanding for him and unfortunately this audio offer came

[00:07:19] which we couldn't match either the position nor the money which was offered and I personally

[00:07:27] understand him that he's taking this chance but for sure it's a loss for us but on the other side

[00:07:35] now we have a very widespread team. We trained young people, we are educating them

[00:07:44] and so we have the possibility, we will put the position of Jonathan on several persons and we believe

[00:07:56] it's where we can handle the situation. And also considering 20 years of Red Bull you've had a very

[00:08:04] decorated 20 years lots and lots of wins over 100 wins over 100 podiums for Max himself

[00:08:11] and several titles in drivers and constructors championships but going back to the initial

[00:08:18] years of Red Bull what were the challenges that the team faced at the time internally probably

[00:08:24] trying and convincing or trying to get a hold of the best talent and probably even externally

[00:08:30] in the sense of being taken seriously as a racing team considering Red Bull is primarily an energy

[00:08:37] drink spread. Yeah that's a complex story as I mentioned first you know we wanted to

[00:08:47] do it differently to be competitive but also have fun so in the beginning we got the image of a

[00:08:56] party team which to a certain amount was correct but they forgot that we also want to win so we had to

[00:09:10] get the OJeguar team was a little bit like a post office you know everything was

[00:09:20] there was no really emotions there was no passion and for racing or for winning you need passion

[00:09:29] so to change that and to convince people that we are serious and also the infrastructure was not

[00:09:38] in any way you know production and always simulator wind tunnel and so on so we had to invest a lot

[00:09:44] but there was a help of Adrian who said you need this this this unfortunately Mr. Mattajic's

[00:09:51] big expensive money which was necessary it was it was quite a big amount of money so

[00:09:59] to get the people and the old people from Jaguar to change their approach to get passion into it

[00:10:07] and yeah that slowly worked and I would say it was done it was a very good job by Christian

[00:10:19] Horner to transfer a midfield team to a winning team but he had also support from Red Bull

[00:10:28] and that and the visionary few of Mattajic's that nearly all the ideas we brought forward

[00:10:37] to him accepted and but in the end we had to deliver fortunately with it

[00:10:45] and you'll continue to keep delivering you know I keep saying in the last 20 years Red Bull is that

[00:10:50] one constructor that is one with different power units with different drivers under different

[00:10:57] rules of formula one itself and I think you are one of the most ruthless rivals for anyone

[00:11:04] to have you get you get half an inch and Red Bull is going to you know take that inch and you know

[00:11:09] expand it into many feats as they go but could you share some behind the scenes stories or

[00:11:16] anecdotes that illustrate the culture within the team because the big thing about Red Bull like

[00:11:21] you've also been narrating is you want to do things differently so how different is that

[00:11:26] culture which is which I have personally experienced in the Milton Keynes factory

[00:11:31] as you know sir but are there any stories that you are able to share

[00:11:34] no it's different stories but one about our approach is for sure first up and first up

[00:11:42] and was 15 years old when we signed him he I think was 16 when he had his first outing

[00:11:52] and that's also Red Bull like on a Friday drive in Sozuko Sozuko is one of the

[00:11:58] most demanding circuits old style and we had a lot of criticism you know dangerous young guy and

[00:12:09] then then blah blah blah and then changed all the rules unfortunately you know you can't like

[00:12:14] be 16 and now all of a sudden they're broken you have to be 18 to drive a formula one car

[00:12:19] and you have to have points and whatsoever so but he said no he is ready I had it

[00:12:26] normally I talk with his young drivers we don't sign a driver without a heavy discussion with him

[00:12:32] but this Max I was sitting down for an hour and then for nearly two hours and there was a very young

[00:12:41] there was a mature young or a mature man in a very young body but his vision what he wanted

[00:12:52] and how he wanted to achieve it that was very clear so for me it was not a risk to put him in

[00:12:59] the formula one car and yes he had some accidents but really everybody when it kind of starts first

[00:13:07] have some accidents but the way I'm going to talk to mother shits we will have the risk

[00:13:12] he's so young you know in US theoretically if he couldn't drive this if you're not 18 and

[00:13:19] things like that so and we go forward and the other story was when 2014 the new engine rules came

[00:13:30] and our engine supplier unfortunately couldn't make a competitive engine so

[00:13:36] and we tried him so there was quite a big rivalry with Mercedes and also our boss was not a big fan

[00:13:51] and he said listen this our engine we can't motivate people anymore because everybody knows

[00:13:59] with his engine you can't win so we had a deal with Mercedes a handshake deal with lauda which was

[00:14:11] not supported by Dotto so the deal didn't happen and then we went to Honda Honda at that stage

[00:14:20] failed to be competitive with McLaren but I had some insider information what they are planning to do

[00:14:30] so we said yes we go ahead we take this risk which I believe it wasn't a risk because I knew

[00:14:40] how much they spent on dinos you know AVL is in parts and so I knew what they spent so there was

[00:14:50] they were serious about it so maybe changed to an engine which at that moment was

[00:14:57] how did I also say F2 style power something like that so that we always took brave decisions

[00:15:08] so a little bit yeah no risk no fun I like that motto no risk no fun and like I keep saying that

[00:15:17] you know 2014 to 2021 2022 were actually the toughest times because Red Bull had the car

[00:15:23] just couldn't get the right power unit and you'll still manage to keep together as a team wait till

[00:15:30] everything fell in place and then of course the the the historic partnership that you've had

[00:15:36] with Honda but Sundaram I know you have a very interesting follow-up question to this story

[00:15:42] yes Dr. Marco you said that Red Bull's philosophy has always been about making or

[00:15:47] building young talent rather than buying the stars but has there ever been a situation where Red Bull

[00:15:54] has really wanted to sign a driver but due to some circumstance or the other it has broken down

[00:16:00] or you've not been able to sign that driver or has there ever been a driver that Red Bull has

[00:16:04] really wanted but just couldn't sign before we started winning I don't know exactly which

[00:16:11] year I think it might have been 2008 or so we had been talking to Alonso but he didn't think

[00:16:18] take us seriously I guess and so yeah didn't happen we had serious discussion and we had a

[00:16:29] contract ready for London Norris for the Alfa D'Aure also at that time and unfortunately they

[00:16:37] found out which they had two contracts and then one was a clause which stopped this cooperation

[00:16:45] with London Norris but the rest as I said we are proud about our two world champions

[00:16:55] I know time is less I know you have to head I know Vicky's been messaging me just the last

[00:17:00] question Dr. Marco we of course I'm pretty sure I'll take more time in your calendar to

[00:17:05] discuss some of these 20 year old stories but if we can just look forward what is next for Red Bull

[00:17:12] Racing because you all have been doing this for 20 years you'll have won races titles bowls there's

[00:17:18] nothing much left to prove in Formula 1 even though I wish you all keep proving how an energy

[00:17:24] drinks company can beat car manufacturers in a sport that involves car racing right

[00:17:28] what is next really I'll pivot into having road cars or any other advanced engineering

[00:17:34] technologies like Williams or list on the stock market or what do you think is the next 20 years

[00:17:40] got in store for Red Bull if you go back in history whenever William started or McLaren started

[00:17:49] not only focus on Formula 1 their performance went down so in our view we have to focus on

[00:17:58] Formula 1 yes we will do the RP 17 which is a very special car designed by Adrian Newey but I think that's

[00:18:12] the one off project we also involved in America's Cup and things other things like that

[00:18:19] but this focus should stay on Formula 1 and I think the next benchmark is we will have our

[00:18:27] own engine which is an enormous enormous project from the financial side as also from the managing side

[00:18:37] so we will be yeah people being our real manufacturer so that will start in 2026 and in

[00:18:48] the future our focus will be on winning races yes winning racing with our own engine

[00:18:55] and make over the benchmark you know as in the beginning we do it differently

[00:19:02] differently and that should be also the aim for the future main goal is winning but do it in a way

[00:19:09] which also gives new fuels gives new side of the sport with the population be different

[00:19:19] and Dr. Marco I'd like to end with a question on you in the next 20 years as Red Bull moves

[00:19:25] to its different dimension moves to a new chapter of its history how do you see your

[00:19:30] role evolving you started off nurturing young drivers setting up the whole team

[00:19:34] what do you think the next few years holds for you as we conclude the episode

[00:19:38] I'm not getting younger so my contract goes to 2026 but as long as I physically and mentally in a

[00:19:51] shape to do my job I enjoy it but naturally I will step back more and more and hopefully find

[00:20:01] a good successor is Sebastian Fettel a possible successor or can I apply

[00:20:11] this has been a fantastic chat Dr. Marco I'll keep like I said keep seeking your time for more

[00:20:18] of your stories because I'm pretty sure there's there's an encyclopedia of stories inside

[00:20:23] all these 20 years that you've literally been the architect of putting together at Red Bull Racing

[00:20:29] okay thanks it was nice to talk to you have a lovely day bye bye

[00:20:36] ah man that was so much fun so much fun listening to Dr. Helmut Marco and I hope that

[00:20:42] that sentiment is also carried by you as you were listening through that episode let us know

[00:20:47] what you make of it by reaching out to us on all of our social media handles but this is

[00:20:52] just the beginning Dr. Helmut Marco has been on the podcast before and hopefully we'll be back

[00:20:57] again but if you love this a lot please please feel free to check out our Ottmar Safna special

[00:21:02] episode that we did a few months ago as well and also one with Mr. Ravi Shasari a cricketing legend

[00:21:07] who was in the Formula 1 paroch and predicted that Lewis Hamilton would win the British GP

[00:21:12] before he actually did apart from that we've also got our regular race previews and reviews

[00:21:17] and all the supporting content around it but thank you for taking out the time folks to

[00:21:22] listen to this episode of the inside line f1 podcast on behalf of Kunal and Sundaram

[00:21:27] this is myself Somal Arora and I'll see you for a few episodes in the future bye bye