Helmut Marko Interview, C3 to help Norris to beat Verstappen at Red Bull's home? 2024 Austrian GP Preview

[00:00:02] Before we begin, I wanted to give a huge shout out to the folks at Amazon Music for partnering with us on this episode of the Inside Line F1 Podcast. But more on this later, right then let's get right into today's episode.

[00:00:27] Welcome ladies and gentlemen to the Crosshair Pre-Fond Track Limits Crom Prix Preview on the Inside Line F1 Podcast. We say that for a reason because last year when Formula One came to Austria, how many track limits and fridge bins did we have?

[00:00:49] Oh, I know the number. Come on, you know the number. No, no, no, no. I mean it was over 1100 close to 1200. 1200 is the number. Interesting. The race that forced the FIA to employ AI, they actually realized humans can't do this job in real time.

[00:01:11] We need artificial intelligence and then voila, we had artificial intelligence solving track limits. Yes. Is this going to be the first time Formula One comes to any Grand Prix of this problematic scale in terms of track limits with AI?

[00:01:26] I think it is right because all the circuits we've had so far this year, kind of okay. But this place, you know how many penalties we had here for track limits? Nine and you won't believe it. But Kevin Magnussen actually didn't have the biggest penalty.

[00:01:39] In fact, he gained a position even though he got a penalty. He only got a five second penalty whereas Yuki Sonora behind him got a 15 second penalty. So there we are. Kevin Magnussen went from P19 to P18 because he got a track limits penalty. What a guy.

[00:01:55] Wow, only in Formula One. But you're right. This is where the scale of F1's AI solution for solving track limits will come very handy. And I also believe, okay, all seriousness so that people know we know our staff and Formula One as well.

[00:02:13] Between turns nine and ten, which is the last two corners, there is a gravel trap which is two and a half meter wide, which is a Formula One only solution. They will remove that gravel trap when the bikes go racing some of them.

[00:02:28] Was it there when you were there at the Kushmani test in Austria a couple of weeks ago? I don't believe so. No, frankly, although I didn't really go there. That was the only corner I went to turn eight and then I sort of walked back

[00:02:40] because it was literally in the wilderness. It is one of the most gorgeous circuits in Formula One. My goodness, I call it the Wimbledon of F1. When you watch tennis at Wimbledon and when you watch tennis elsewhere,

[00:02:56] it's a Wimbledon that literally stands out in front of any other place. So it is gorgeous. We can talk about the circuit a little later. I'd love to share more about the test as well, obviously.

[00:03:08] Yeah, and actually we should talk a little bit more about the context heading up into this race before we introduce who we are and what this show is all about.

[00:03:17] This weekend, we're about to witness a grand territorial dispute. The Dutch Austrian Alliance are about to fight the Commonwealth team for supremacy in Austria and then Britain right after this. It's Red Bull and McLaren's home races one after the other

[00:03:35] and believe it or not, these two races are where McLaren have been strongest in the last couple of years. If there's any race to upset Red Bull, it would be right at their home and that battle Kunal is going to be so much fun.

[00:03:49] And to add to that mix, it's not just Red Bull and McLaren who we are talking about. In 2022, Ferrari won here in dominant fashion against Verstappen and Red Bull and last year they also qualified second and third in the normal qualifying session too.

[00:04:04] So three-way battle probably not 100% but we know that McLaren are going to be close. Why don't we just hype up a four-way battle since Mercedes is thinking they're always going to be there?

[00:04:15] But it seems like it is going to be Red Bull versus McLaren up at the front and Ferrari and Mercedes just about sort of catching them up. A lot of it is down to temperatures, down to circuit characteristics, attire compounds in use and so on and so forth.

[00:04:33] But will it be a papaya win in front of the orange army and then Landon Orris will say, look so many McLaren, oh there we go. I'm wearing the colors anyway. You know I'm manifesting it properly.

[00:04:46] Whatever happened to you manifesting a Carlos Sainz win at every Grand Prix of the season? But you don't hurt me like that. Four and a half minutes in. This is where we cue the introduction. Let's go for it.

[00:04:59] We should. We should. Ladies and gentlemen, this is the Inside Line F1 podcast. My name is Somal Arora. I'm the voice of the MotoGP Indian Grand Prix which I desperately hope comes back early in 2025. Among other things as well including being the commentator for the Indian Racing League,

[00:05:17] the Indian Supercross Racing League as well and many other national championships in India. The other voice you were hearing is the man who started this podcast. Well, Kunal Shah has been the former marketing head of the Forcing the Formula One team

[00:05:29] and he's also currently an FIA accredited Formula One journalist who's working as an F1 consultant and producer for the ViyaPlay Network in Norway. That sounded a little bit confusing to you. Let me simplify this.

[00:05:43] Whatever content you see on the pre and post shows on all the ViyaPlay shows is weighed by this guy. So you're listening to someone who knows his Formula One. I've put you under a bit of pressure now, Kunal. Have a night.

[00:05:55] But nothing like soaking up Formula One pressure. You wake me at 2 in the morning and I should know my stuff. That's what makes me... But we are at what? Yeah. How do we at 2.30 in the morning anyway?

[00:06:05] That's the time Somal Arora is awake in Indian Standard Time and it's... The opening. Can you imagine somebody actually said a Dutch Austrian alliance taking on the Commonwealth Alliance? My goodness. I would have never thought of these things but this is what makes you so great, Somal Arora.

[00:06:22] Thank you for doing what you do. Well, the compliments fly both ways as will the track limit penalties. But we should come back to one more thing. In this episode, we're not just going to talk about the things you should look forward to in this race.

[00:06:36] But we're also going to get a very special clip from the one the only, the most famous Austrian in Formula One. Debatable but we'll talk about that in a bit. Dr. Helmut Marco.

[00:06:46] We're going to listen to him when he was on our podcast this time last year talking about the story of how Red Bull Racing truly came alive and his conversations with the late great Dietrich Mathisius.

[00:06:57] That is going to be on this episode later on so stick around for that. But I think we should begin with the talk of the town, right? The two-way battle between Vistappen and Norris. It couldn't have gotten closer. 2.2 seconds is genuinely mind-blowing.

[00:07:12] But hear me out, Spain has not traditionally been McLaren's best circuit. Austria on the other hand is where last year McLaren went from being six in the constructors right up to getting their first podium and then following it up with a big result in Britain as well.

[00:07:27] We know McLaren are good here. They know it as well. So what are we looking out for? Will McLaren-Landon Norris deliver that perfect weekend, which is what we're hoping for. No safety cars, nothing, the best art, the best strategy, the best wheel-to-wheel battles.

[00:07:47] And what better circuit act to go racing against Max Verstappen and Red Bull Racing than Red Bull's home race? There will be hordes of Dutch fans in the orange T-shirts and caps, the orange army as we call it.

[00:08:04] There will be, what are those? Smoke bombs? Is that what we call them? The flares. The flares, yeah. And I mean just the atmosphere aside, the circuit in itself offers so much character, so much history that it represents, so many opportunities to go racing.

[00:08:22] I mean, it's incredible. I absolutely love this circuit, Somel. And the challenge is also that it offers. Maybe we should probably even get to that, right? Because there is low speed, there is medium speed, there is of course high speed stuff.

[00:08:36] It is the shortest lap time on the Formula One calendar. I think 62 seconds is what is took couple of years ago. Last year was 64 seconds. Well, out of the 10 corners on the circuit, just two of them, there are just, well, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:08:54] I once said, yes, I knew you were going to say this, but let me say officially there are 10 corners at this circuit. Debatable. Debatable. Yeah, but debatable. Okay. Out of it, just two left-handed corners. Okay. I absolutely love that about the layout.

[00:09:12] Okay. And the debate that I absolutely am on your side with Somel is turns two, five and eight are not really corners because they are flat out. Exactly. Turn two is blatantly not a corner, not even in bikes where they just don't even lean a little bit.

[00:09:31] Now it is in bikes because they have a chicane over there because things got a bit too scary and Valentino Rossi almost died. Thank God the chicane is here, touch wood, but it's not really 10 corners.

[00:09:43] And the tricky part about this is that we see a different variety as you rightly mentioned. Turn one is slightly medium to high speed. But when you get to the later parts of the circuit, the proper turn two gets very slow.

[00:09:57] The proper turn three, I know that officially three and four now, but they get so slow. And the thing is around the outside over there, we've seen so many cars thinking they can make a move, but eventually you can't.

[00:10:09] And it's that dicey little spot where you feel you can go for something, but in reality it's tighter than you think it is. And that's where we see some great racing. I can remember Albonne Lewis Hamilton in 2021. Perez also tangling with him.

[00:10:22] I think it was 2022 if I'm not mistaken. Yeah. And that one corner produces so much racing action. And with these cars where it's easier to follow, and if there will be any difference in strategy and tire compounds, we will surely see a lot of racing action.

[00:10:38] And that just excites me so much. In fact, I'm going to bet on this very thing that you just said into turn four and turn five, you know, the right hander which goes downhill.

[00:10:50] We will have at least one car that get that will get tagged will probably spin away or we'll take the gravel trap, take the exit road and rejoin. That's probably what's going to happen.

[00:11:03] But just to add a little more about the circuit, the circuit is just 4.318 kilometers long. For such a short circuit, there are three DRS zones and the DRS zones actually equal up to 1.75 kilometers, which means 40% of the circuit is DRS zones. Yeah. Isn't that beautiful?

[00:11:28] And the rest is sausage curbs basically. Yeah, that's true. And in fact, I'm glad you said sausages because this is one of those circuits which is the heaviest on the vehicle suspension. Now how often do we actually get to see that?

[00:11:44] Because curb riding is very important to getting a quick lap time. But there are these sausage curbs where the height of the curb is the main challenge for these cars and the speeds at which you sort of ride them. So curbs is important and then 3 DRS zones.

[00:12:02] So three very heavy braking points. Braking is crucial, but because it's a short lap, you need more cooling solutions for the brakes. And when you cool the brakes too much and you sort of use those cooling solutions, you actually end up needing more tire warm-up.

[00:12:20] So a single lap tire warm-up and qualifying is very, very difficult to get. And then guess what? Short circuit, 20 cars out on track. Q1 in qualifying is going to be a traffic nightmare. And one last thing. Can you imagine the tow that one could get around this?

[00:12:41] Okay, 3 DRS zones. That's what I think Red Bull will. They almost gave Peres, sorry, they almost gave a strap and a tow in Spain. Here they will plan to give him a tow.

[00:12:53] Maybe it's going to be check over as and further down the road, Nico Halkenberg will give him a tow.

[00:12:57] But you're doing so is going to be harder because when you're in that middle section where you've got those couple of really quick corners that are almost flat out and the Red Bull giant bull in the middle of it. Over there, there's barely any inside line.

[00:13:12] There's only one proper fast line and that is where you start preparing for the lap ahead. So in qualifying, which are going to be two off this weekend because it's a sprint weekend, we are going to see lots of cars impeding each other for sure.

[00:13:26] It happens every year. It will happen this year as well. But I'll tell you what happens every year again. A battle in Austria. I can only cast my mind back to 2019 where we saw the first proper duel between Westapen and Leclerc.

[00:13:41] And because this circuit is so wide open, because it has so few corners and so many DRS zones, you can actually send a move and make it work. Now, this is the one thing that we've been missing in the battle between Westapen and Norris.

[00:13:55] When you think about it, what does it take to beat Red Bull? So far, they've only been beaten twice. In one instance, it was an ill time safety car that cost them.

[00:14:04] In the second instance, it was a circuit characteristic that just didn't allow them to run the car in the way they wanted to. Monaco. Now we've never seen Norris and Westapen fight it out wheel to wheel against each other with a similar pace difference because in Barcelona,

[00:14:19] McLaren were compelled to go longer. They had no other choice, right? They had to go in the clean red. Austria is one circuit where you can follow. I like the sound of this, Kudal. Yes.

[00:14:30] And I think one key takeaway and one of the things we mentioned in the Spanish Grand Prix review was that McLaren needs a strategy, needs to execute a race where they are hounding, pressurizing Max-Wishstapen for a longer duration of the race than just the last 10-odd laps that they did.

[00:14:49] So last, you know, whatever, 10% of the race that they did. Of course, this is assuming that they are following Max-Wishstapen.

[00:14:55] If Norris just gets it on pole and starts from pole and keeps P1 at the end of the first lap, it might just be difficult for him to keep that P1 purely because of the characteristics of this circuit. What you mentioned, it's easy to throw in a move.

[00:15:12] It's easier to follow lots of straights. Lot 3D on his zones makes it just that much tougher. But it's possible and we'd love to see that.

[00:15:21] We'd love to see that wheel-to-wheel battle and what you mentioned about throwing a move, you know, I mean, we love Spa for the gradient that it offers, right? Spa is about 102 meters from the lowest to the highest point.

[00:15:34] Austria is 64 odd meters and one of the gradients where it's most visible is when you go up to turn 3 and you come down to turn 4, you could literally see one wheel on the inside.

[00:15:46] The front wheel, the front right wheel almost lifting off and isn't that just such a pretty sight? Some of the fastest cars in the world literally doing a wheelie or sorts. But I think it is going to be Norris versus Max-Wishstapen.

[00:16:01] Although I have a feeling Oscar P.A. is going to bounce back. He's literally for the first time ever since his debut last year had one weekend where he was nowhere and he himself is claimed that it doesn't make sense where I was not quick.

[00:16:16] Could it be two McLarens in the mix? Could it be Piastri taking the fight not just to wishstapen but also to Landon Norris and he really needs that. And Norris needs that as well because Red Bull Racing are surely going to be handicapped up at the top.

[00:16:31] Even though Sergio Perez probably hasn't had the best form this year, we don't... I mean, you do expect a comeback but it's highly unlikely given the circumstances we find ourselves in. It's far more likely that Oscar P.A. can elevate himself from where he has been in Barcelona.

[00:16:49] And Norris will need that badly because if there are two McLarens up against one Red Bull Racing car, it will really upset the Apple Card.

[00:16:57] Imagine a scenario where Norris does get pulled but Stapen is second and to force for Stapen into a really weird spot, Piastri is in third. That is what teamwork is all about because you then eventually keep one car up ahead so it can slow Stapen down

[00:17:12] and really not get him to box in an ideal scenario. It could so happen that Landon Norris boxes earlier but Stapen has to wait and then stick behind a slower Oscar Piastri or something of that sort.

[00:17:23] If Piastri goes longer, that scenario is what McLaren need a second car up there for and Red Bull need for as well which is where the pressure on the second drive is so big.

[00:17:33] And ladies and gentlemen, this is not Somil Aurora dreaming at 3 in the morning Indian Standard Time. These are the scenarios teams discuss day in and out. They're constantly monitoring what are the possibilities where the simulations will sort of show the lap times and so on

[00:17:49] and they build on these possibilities like George Russell said, you know, I saw Fernando Alonso make a similar start at the start from before in Spain and he just channelized his, you know, Fernando Alonso but for all the McLaren fans here are two key stats.

[00:18:05] The last McLaren ball was way back in 2000 with the two time world champion Mika Hakenen. In Austria, you mean? In Austria, yeah, yeah, of course. In Austria, yes. The last McLaren win in Austria was way back in 2001 with David Coulthard. Can you imagine?

[00:18:28] We've also heard on the podcast. Yeah, we, of course. Actually, both of them we've had on the podcast. Yeah. Very proud to say that but yes. Okay.

[00:18:37] And this is again one of the circuits where just because you're on pole doesn't mean you win because in the last 12 races, just five of them have been won from pole. However, eight out of the 12 races have been won from the front row.

[00:18:53] And in 2020, where we actually had two races thanks to COVID at the Austrian actor race, there was an Austrian Grand Prix and a Austrian Grand Prix. Right. And the record books will always say just one winner of the Stingy, a Stingy and Grand Prix.

[00:19:06] But the truth is they were just the Austrian Grand Prix. Right. Hamilton won from fifth, Bota's won from fourth. And in 2018, Westapin has also won you from fourth place. So sort of more grid positions open up for once.

[00:19:21] And that just shows how volatile this Grand Prix can be. And just by the way, if any driver starts out of the top 10, zero times out of 12 races has the top 10 won at the Austrian Grand Prix. Man, my bet's on Nico Halkenberg.

[00:19:36] Oh no, wait, he always is in the top 10 here, isn't he? Last year. Yeah. Didn't he qualify fourth in sprint qualifying here last year? Yeah, yeah, exactly. And in fact, Mick Schumacher's best race where he went wheel to wheel with Hamilton, wasn't it?

[00:19:53] A couple of years ago, West was here in sprint. And Haas's best result here was in 2018 in the Grand Prix format. Grosjean was fourth, Magnussen was fifth. So they've literally come to a circuit that the team pretty much likes. And... I legitimately have a doubt.

[00:20:12] Is that because there are less corners? And 40% of the circuit is, what do you say, DRS-owned. So but I think in general, I mean, of course, 2018 to now is a long shift in philosophies and so on. But in general, Haas has done fairly okay.

[00:20:32] I mean, Nico Halkenberg, four or five times, he's been 11th in a Grand Prix, which is not too bad, I would say. But yeah, and of course, everything gets complicated with the F1 sprint that's this weekend.

[00:20:45] So it is one practice session that we've got the sprint shootout, then we've got FB, there's another practice session. Then we've got a sprint race and then we've got the Grand Prix, right?

[00:20:56] And I absolutely love this, Samuel, because the big challenge and you know, Brazil 2022 and Red Bull got it wrong. We always remember that. We'll Red Bull get it wrong one more time.

[00:21:07] They've never gotten it wrong after that, but you know, bets still out on whether the sprint race is fun or no. But I still think that just one practice session is great because the teams have to make a compromise.

[00:21:19] Do you work on all the areas of the car or do you just work on the areas where you can get maximum lap time out of? And you can get the best setup compromises.

[00:21:27] And I sort of just love that, that you don't have time to build efficiencies in your models. And it just so could happen that instead of Red Bull getting it wrong, McLaren might get it wrong.

[00:21:36] Ferrari might get it wrong and anyone can get it wrong when there's just one practice session. And we saw this in China as well. So many teams were compromised for that very reason. Which happens, Ron was also compromised.

[00:21:49] But knowing how good that guy is, he eventually got it back in the middle of the race. Not at the start in the middle, but this is no China. This is Austria, lesser corners and McLaren generally have been good here.

[00:22:03] And I did a bit of digging and I get a feeling that McLaren really have one big reason to be threatening this week. And it's got a lot to do with the rubber, not just the car. Now cast your mind back to Austria 2023.

[00:22:16] McLaren heading into this race was six in the constructors. Andrea Sela said it has been one of their worst starts. They're looking for a new philosophical idea on the car which eventually came in at this very race.

[00:22:27] There McLaren qualified second with Landonaurus and got their first podium of the year. The tyre compound in that race that they used and really banked upon to get a jump on the Aston Martin's and the Mercedes around them was the hard compound tyre C3.

[00:22:42] Cast your mind back to Miami this year when McLaren won their first race in ages. The mediums really worked out well for them. What tyre was it? The C3. This time, of course in Austria we always tend to use the mediums and the hards.

[00:22:54] And guess what? The hards once again are the C3 compound tyres. Now there's no proper data way to validate this. We always have to wait and see if it works out well and obviously conditions make a major difference.

[00:23:07] Austria this weekend is going to be far cooler than Miami was. And there is a feeling that it might be cooler than last year as well. But again, last year it rained and then the race it was sort of a weird environment.

[00:23:17] This year it's not meant to rain officially but it is raining in the area. But keeping those rain factors aside, generally McLaren have been quite decent on that particular tyre compound.

[00:23:28] And knowing the way things have gone it could be of real big strength for them heading into this weekend. So really watch out for McLaren on that hard compound tyre stint. I think it's going to be interesting to keep an eye on.

[00:23:40] This is fantastic stuff. This is exactly why people love the content we do to understand these red threads as we call it these insights or these trends that we catch. It's the C3 compound as you put it.

[00:23:54] Let's see how they go this weekend because the C3 is the hard tyre nominated compound this weekend. And you started this whole point by saying maybe McLaren will get it wrong.

[00:24:06] I think they've gotten it wrong or they've been challenged and fallen short several times for them to turn around and now literally say, you know what? We're going to go get it right.

[00:24:16] We're going to go get Paul. We're going to try and dominate a little bit for our own selves and to just add a little more perspective. After Spain, Max Wistappen said we cannot get it perfect all the time.

[00:24:28] We cannot get the perfect start, make the perfect overtake, make the perfect strategy each time. That's a lot of pressure. And then he ended by saying we need to add more performance to our car.

[00:24:40] So Max Wistappen, ladies and gentlemen, is actually being challenged by the resurgent McLaren team and at the moment at least well, Landon Norris. Man, it's going to be a good fight. It's going to be a really good fight.

[00:24:55] And we should talk about predictions in a bit, but let's actually listen in to one helmet Marco before we talk about Ferrari, Mercedes and all the other teams and also Alpine.

[00:25:05] We have a lot to talk about them as well. But here's Helmut Marco, who was on the inside line podcast a year ago, talking about the formation of Red Bull Racing and how he spoke to Dietrich Matteschitz and made it all happen. Let's listen in.

[00:25:19] Mr. Matteschitz is from the same area in Stilia, very near to the Red Bull Ring. So there was a connection and I don't know exactly how it happened, but motor racing is expensive.

[00:25:38] So Mr. Matteschitz said let's do something for the young people that they can afford this sport. And that's why we started the Red Bull Junior Team and it was mainly to support young drivers.

[00:25:56] But when first Red Bull bought Jaguar and a little bit later Minardi, the approach was a different one. We said, okay, now we have to have a goal. And the goal is we must find drivers who can win a Grand Prix.

[00:26:15] Not only that we support them, to win a Grand Prix. To win a Grand Prix is a criteria. To win a championship you never can predict. It's depending on the whole package, how good is your chassis, how good is the engine, how strong is the driver.

[00:26:32] But that was the aim. So we changed the approach. We were going for more performance and if the people didn't perform we had to stop our support. And then it was melting together. Junior Team from La Vonne, everything came together.

[00:26:54] It was of course perfect with Minardi or in the early days Toro Rosso. The aim was to give young drivers a chance because in the top team you can't go in the top team without any experience.

[00:27:13] And there was Franz Toos who did this job very well. And looking at the past, you know, we have now Fettel is four championships. We have Max with two, hopefully a third is a pretty good following.

[00:27:27] So the whole system was a success and it was not only on the driver side. We also started with a new approach. We said we would like to do it different.

[00:27:43] And one thing was Christian Honner who didn't have any experience as a F1 team principal but was very successful in Formula 3000. And from there we built it from scratch, I would say. Actually it's so interesting you've scouted drivers and the team principal as well. Very interesting.

[00:28:03] On that front actually I want to start out at the very beginning because with RSM Marko right that's after you got done with your racing career.

[00:28:12] I read in the middle that you managed some top drivers like Gerhard Berger and Karl Wedlinger and then you started your junior team. But was that how Mr. Mattis Schütze brought you like, hey, I have an idea. Why don't we do something?

[00:28:24] It must have been something like that. I can't remember exactly. He was in Kratz where I live and he stayed in the Schrotz-Berg Hotel and we had a presentation of Karl Wedlinger's F3 outfit.

[00:28:44] And there the discussion started. Yes, but and then in the end it was why could we do something together? Dr. Marko on that front you must have looked at it and been like wait, why do you want to do this?

[00:28:59] Because again as a it's so absurd right if you tell it to any outsider that there is an energy drink brand that sponsored drivers and then had their own team and won so many championships.

[00:29:09] It just sounds absurd, but did it ever click to you that hey this is not as weird as it sounds? It's a little bit weird. Yes, I agree. But we have to come further back.

[00:29:22] St. Marijn in Mürtstad, that's the place where Mattis Schütze lives, is very near to a heat lamp race which is called Alper Race. And in the early 60s Jochen Rind, you know the world champion, the first world champion, raced and Mattis Schütze watched this race.

[00:29:43] And there were also little ice races, you know in winter when the fields were frozen and ski rinks with spikes and things like that. So there was already a passion which was in Mr. Mattis Schütze's mind or however you say and when his company was getting successful.

[00:30:05] He was of course always a fan of extreme sports and so motor racing was a clear good opportunity to place the product placements. And then there was a lot of passion but the main thing we both had the passion, the passion for motor racing.

[00:30:26] And that's when through all the development it was always a passion which was driving him, was driving me and we wanted success. But in a not success and our circumstances, success which is built up and which was also fun.

[00:30:50] I remember the first championship was such a surprise in Abu Dhabi. He was not the favorite, it was Alonso and the man with the second most points was Weber. So and he doesn't decided this is the very last lap.

[00:31:08] He will win or not the same happened to Trump and all these emotions, that's part of our DNA. I love helmet. I love how direct he is. I love how pinpoint he gets and it's a very Austrian way of telling a story, right?

[00:31:23] Just going from detail to detail with precision but he also didn't just he didn't just tell stories on the podcast. He told us a lot more about how the decision making in the Red Bull camp works, why they decided to let go of negative race,

[00:31:37] how they evaluate their junior drivers and so many more things. In that full episode even though it happened a while ago, it's still just as relevant and just as entertaining today. So I get a feeling you should go and watch that one as well.

[00:31:51] It's timeless and I've enjoyed a relationship with Helmut Marco for many, many years. And I just love how he just knows the pulse of a conversation and I love such people. And usually there's some faff then some pulse and then some faff in regular conversations, right?

[00:32:10] Like how's the weather? What did you do today for breakfast and how are things? And then finally by the way, Somali, that by the way moment with Helmut's always by the way have five things or three things that you want to discuss happened

[00:32:23] and then all the nice cities come in. So the nice cities do come. You just have to wait for it. The order is a bit reversed out there, but it's an absolute delight.

[00:32:32] One of the only English podcasts to have had Helmut Marco and it's definitely one of the feathers on our caps on. It is and I just have a question for you since you've spoken to him a lot more than I have.

[00:32:45] What's the weirdest thing you've spoken to him about? Like all the most random stuff. Have you guys spoken about a meal or travel destination or something like that ever? 20 years from now, I'll tell you what we spoke about.

[00:32:57] Well, 20 years from now, we'll also find out why Los Hamilton changed the screw before the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix, right? Yeah. Wait, how many years are left now? Wait 15. How many years were left? I forgot. We'll go back to the replays and find out.

[00:33:12] Oh, you will tell us in the comments anyway. We know you love us that much to respond to us, but we should talk about Ferrari, shouldn't we Kunal?

[00:33:18] Yes, we should because they keep talking about themselves and of course, they've sort of a little bit of an implosion with their drivers getting a bit angry. Frithi Pursour was surprisingly taking sides saying, you know, Charles didn't really lose out on anything with that attack from Carlos

[00:33:36] and Carlos was cheeky that he attacked on a lap when they actually had agreed pre-race to save tyres. But irrespective, they need to find performance and something we all know. Performance especially upgrades is relative in this sport.

[00:33:54] So if somebody else makes a bigger step than you do and even if you've made a step forward, technically you've not made a step forward when it comes to lap time.

[00:34:01] So for Ferrari, the team with most wins, six wins here, most poles, eight pole positions here, they definitely need to be in the fight.

[00:34:11] Can you imagine a Ferrari versus McLaren battle for the ages for all the good old fans who are still waiting to cling back to the sport along with the Red Bull Racing in the mix?

[00:34:24] Wouldn't that be the perfect cocktail? All the good old purists of the sport, you know, we've been following since the 60s and 70s and 80s like yourselves even though it was 40 years before you were born, right?

[00:34:38] Versus all the new age drive to survive induced or lead in fans who probably are following just the most recent teams who have succeeded and then you bring Lewis Hamilton, George Russell and Mercedes in the mix.

[00:34:50] I think that's just what would be a heady cocktail of stories, mixes, narratives for Formula One. By the way, talking of Mercedes, they've said the sabotage was not a criminal case and they've actually given some other ways for Mercedes to handle that sabotage email that came through. Yes.

[00:35:10] Wait, tell me more like what exactly did they say? That's all they said. There's nothing more. That's all they said.

[00:35:16] So all this whole sabotage thing which went from social media onto real life drama and television, we will have another follow up of that with Toto Wolf later this weekend. But there's nothing. And by the way, you mentioned the most popular Austrian in Formula One.

[00:35:33] That you mentioned was Helmut Marco. I'm pretty sure Toto Wolf is extremely pissed and he refused to come on to a podcast just because you didn't consider him for that. There you go. Yes. I forgot he's an Austrian as well. How can I do that? Yes.

[00:35:51] No, but that's okay. Kimmy, Anton Nelly. This weekend, go on. I was about to say that this weekend Christian Klein is also going to be remembered a lot for his TV work and isn't it Alexander Wurz who's a part of the drivers commission?

[00:36:08] Yeah, GPDA. He's the chairman of the world. He's going to be bested a lot for track limits. I think track limits might not be that big an issue this weekend if the solutions were fine. Do you bet?

[00:36:21] We'll see. We'll see at the end of the race. We'll see on Monday. We'll evaluate this point and put it in our checklist. But you will say something on Kimmy. On Kimmy and Toto Wolf. Yeah. It almost seems certain that Kimmy is going to get the ride.

[00:36:34] Very interesting how I think Jacques Villeneuve put it and I'm sort of growing to understand this philosophy more. Is Kimmy Anton Nelly getting a break in Formula One is also because of Toto Wolf's ego? So what all has Toto Wolf won? He's won races. He's won championships.

[00:36:52] He's built the best car, the best engine. They've done all that but they missed out on Max Wischtappen. Max was talking to Mercedes, Anto Red Bull and he just signed with Red Bull and the rest we know his history.

[00:37:03] Now Toto Wolf wants to be that guy who's found the Max Wischtappen of the next generation. Could this be where Kimmy Anton Nelly comes in? I don't know why we call him Kimmy Anton Nelly when that poor lad's name is Andrea Kimmy Anton Nelly.

[00:37:18] Okay. But that's one of those things which hopefully we'll sort of maybe have some news in the driver market. I believe Call of Science to Williams was waiting to be announced last week but Flavio Bria-Torre was suddenly announced out of nowhere. And hence...

[00:37:32] One second. Can you say that Flavio crashed the side announcement? Oh my goodness. He did. Yeah and now Flavio Bria-Torre, I get a feeling he's going to sell the team with him being the team boss even if he's not the team owner in terms of shares.

[00:37:54] He's probably going to help Alpine get a sale or going. Or if Alpine continue to stay Bruno Fam and better be scared because Flavio Bria-Torre is coming for his job. Well why don't we talk about Alpine now that we're on that subject anyway right?

[00:38:10] We were speaking about Ferrari and having internal tussles over there and signs in the clerk both attacking each other. But at Alpine they're now testing other drivers for their seat. They've tested track 2 in free practice. Mick Schumacher is expected to be in... actually not expected.

[00:38:28] He's announced to be in the car in some time as well testing the old Alpine. And I just want to know what direction are Alpine going in? They are considering putting a non-Alpine engine in an Alpine car which basically means

[00:38:42] a factory team is about to outsource its engine making to another team which defeats the purpose of why they are a factory team. And they're looking beyond their driver academy which has great drivers for someone else. And we saw that Chactoon is having a pretty decent year.

[00:38:58] We saw that Cushmenya had a great Formula 1 test as well. Of course it's their due diligence to evaluate Mick as well but I'm just confused about where they can go potentially

[00:39:07] and what is the next way out for them even though they've been improving in terms of the car perspective? I mean, Gussley's scored points three consecutive races. They had both the cars in Q3.

[00:39:18] They know they have got one heavier chassis which they keep or one heavier part of the car which they keep alternating between the two drivers. And the interesting thing is Alpine has become the third fastest team in the pit lane in 2024.

[00:39:32] They've had two second pit stops so they are in the whole pit lane championship that Formula 1 maintains. They are just third behind Red Bull and Ferrari.

[00:39:43] So Alpine are making steady gains trying to come back and I just think if Mick Schumacher was to ever get a second shot in Formula 1 he's going to take a Flavio Bria Tori.

[00:39:56] Who did all the magic with his father at Benetton in 1994 and 1995 if there's a big if there but yeah, there we go. But we had Christian Dana on the podcast a few weeks ago as well and Christian Dana is a Formula 1 driver

[00:40:11] and one of the most legendary German commentators. Very well respected in the Parac and he said that he's not quite sure of a second chance for Mick even though he respects his work and even though he likes it I'm paraphrasing a little bit

[00:40:24] but he feels that the boat has sailed by. It'll be a little absurd if Alpine do end up going back to him but again we'll see, we'll see but before we go to predictions Conal it's heartening to see Alpine really make the gains right.

[00:40:37] WQ2 sorry WQ3 in Barcelona getting double points as well for the first time in the same environment where other teams like Sauver are getting more investment but are not able to make the same operational gains it's kind of nice to see Alpine get back to where they are

[00:40:53] and they've sort of cooled down the internal conflict that's been going on as well. So say what do you want? I think famine is doing a pretty decent job given the circumstances he's in. Well, I am going to reserve my comments because I still feel the need

[00:41:07] There is more to come. Of course the tragic tree is what matters just because they've had a bad start doesn't mean we keep kicking them down each time.

[00:41:16] I believe they just sort of lack the tools if we go back to even what Otmar Safnau said on our podcast earlier on in the season that Alpine is just behind on tools which is why they're struggling not just the chassis side

[00:41:31] but also on the engine side of things and let's see where it all goes but I would love to again see Alpine take the fight because on a weekend when racing bulls wasn't doing too well in Spain

[00:41:43] Alpine was suddenly quicker than even Aston Martin and Aston Martin also needs a good weekend so when you put all the pieces together everybody needs somewhere or the other has had a bit of a blip in Spain

[00:41:57] and they need to put a better weekend out there and again Alpine a work steam I would hate for a work steam to be sold to a privateer

[00:42:06] there's always some bit of more prestige right and Alpine is of course thrown in the hat in the in the color signs you know signing as well they want to co-sign color signs pretty much every team wants to do that except for Mercedes and Red Bull

[00:42:23] but yeah there we go but wait I don't get it how is Alpine a work steam there are worse things that just don't work even though they are in the right direction even though they are in the right direction the history

[00:42:39] you're right and they've seen more management changes than even Ferrari in the last five years and they wanted to be the Ferrari of France right so maybe they are sort of following picking some cues which make them feel like the other Ferrari of France I guess

[00:42:56] not bad not bad and it's only perfect that they hire a really old and masculine looking man who's got the best white beard and a reputation for being extremely angry but very decisive as well

[00:43:09] it sounds like what Ferrari did with I ah man how can I forget his name Ariva Bene but it's a similar sort of profile isn't it but but Flavio is more racing than he is then Ariva Bene was but Flavio also came from business didn't he? yeah Flavio

[00:43:24] I mean Flavio came from business and he comes from I think the best school of communications because he said something like I think I'm a genius in Formula One I don't think I've heard Adrian Newie say that till date

[00:43:38] but Flavio just believes he needs to be the one saying I believe the genius in Formula One yeah did he say that before summer of 2009 he said that now oh he said that now yeah yeah yeah not before Crash Gate or whatever yeah he said that fair enough

[00:43:57] now yeah okay again we both get the right to reserve a comment each in every episode I think I'm gonna reserve my comments for this one but predictions we can't reserve anything over there of course the heart always manifests a garloss signs win

[00:44:11] but this time for real my mind is going land though I've been impressed by everything that's been happened the qualifying lap in Barcelona was amazing if not one quali if not two qualifiers at least once

[00:44:24] I expect to see him on pole this time out and if it's the main one even better because McLaren at the front is something we haven't seen for a long while so I want to see how Vistappan responds to when he's the chaser

[00:44:36] instead of the one being chased so I'm gonna go for Landonors winning the big one but where's your money at Kunal? I think it's gonna be Max Vistappan but it'll be a very very close battle I still believe to fight operationally efficiently at the front

[00:44:54] there is a bit of little there's a little element when it comes to Max and the Red Bull and when they're in that sort of zone of theirs which is what they've hit 61 times already in Formula One and let's also remember very crucially Red Bull are disadvantaged

[00:45:17] they've had few of Vintana Lauer's and the whole sliding scale aero regulations that are there for example I believe after this Sunday's race the scale for the second half of the season gets decided as well and Red Bull had 10% of their allocation

[00:45:41] actually cut off from October 2022 to October 2023 which is literally eight months ago thanks to their budget gap breach so I think all of this is also sort of coming into play finally they've sort of hit a peak they say there are not many incremental gains to make

[00:45:59] and I'd love to see how if McLaren have taken the step forward even if it's half a step ahead of Red Bull how Red Bull responds, how Max wish to happen to respond and how I still I don't know how it's going to play out

[00:46:14] but I just really want that bloody good battle where every room you walk into people are like did you watch that? It wasn't Max or well it was Lando but they had to fight for it I'm waiting for that because we do that when it comes to 2005-2006

[00:46:31] especially you know Racer, Lex and Marino and whatever well Fernando and Michael were just at it all the time I would love for those conversations to come out of the formula one circles and more into our social circles and in life's on them

[00:46:47] Fingers crossed, fingers crossed we get a race like that this weekend but what are your predictions folks? Let us know down in the comments and also on our social media channels at Inside Line F1 Podcast at Kunalesha at I am Sam Malarora

[00:47:02] and also let's not forget F1's Tanskura Sundaram as well Fingers crossed that he's recovered very very soon and we can get him back on the podcast too Okay then folks we'll see you on Monday for the post-race review of the Austrian Grand Prix

[00:47:16] We'll catch you there, bye bye Thanks for partnering with us on this episode of the podcast