Another F1 break, Rookie race opportunity lost - Inside Line F1 Podcast

[00:00:19] This weird mid-season break we have has given us a big opportunity. Now, in the summer break, Formula One teams tend to keep their factories shut down because they have to. But at the Inside Line F1 Podcast, our factories never shut down really, even though it's a break whatsoever. So, our tech team has been working hard and Kunal, we finally have visuals.

[00:00:41] We have visuals.

[00:00:43] We have an upgrade.

[00:00:44] We have a mega upgrade. Like you said, factories are not on a break like they are in the August shutdown. So, we are releasing an upgrade this episode. So, everyone who's listening to the audio, you actually might be tempted to also see the video of this on whichever platform you see videos on, but primarily YouTube as well. But the content is the same. It's just how the presentation happens. And I think we've just peaked a lot of interest, haven't we Sundaram?

[00:01:11] Absolutely. And I hope this upgrade is not like Ferrari's Imola upgrade rather than Ferrari's Miami upgrade in the long run. And for all of you as a listener, this is just free practice one. So, we're just testing out this format and in a couple of races time or by the end of the season, it'll look a lot better, hopefully.

[00:01:28] Yeah, this is where we have the aero rigs for now. We're just testing its optimality and seeing if it works out. So, lo and behold, the light in the pit lane is green. And it's time to roll out what we've been testing for the last week and a half. It is our PPT. It's coming. It's rolling out at a speed of 60 kph. And there it is. Of course.

[00:01:51] I've kind of realized PPT sounds very primitive and slide deck is the more fancy word we should use. Slide deck.

[00:01:58] I think PPT is Microsoft. Slide deck is everyone who tried to introduce a PowerPoint product without actually wanting to call it PowerPoint.

[00:02:07] Yeah.

[00:02:08] Because, you know, we were also, at least I grew up to Microsoft Office. It was not a, it was a Word document. It wasn't a document. You know, it was always an Excel. It is still an Excel sheet. It's not a spreadsheet.

[00:02:19] It's still a Google Doc now. It's a Google Doc.

[00:02:22] Yeah, it's a Google Doc now. Yeah. Whatever's in the cloud, we'll use it and we'll call it that. But yes, this, we should explain why we're doing this presentation format. Actually, why don't I explain it? Because I know I've seen you guys deliver this presentation at our events.

[00:02:39] I've seen it virtually. I've seen it in person. And the one thing, ladies and gentlemen, everyone listening and everyone seeing, the one thing that people really love at our events, apart from engaging with us, is actually the presentation itself.

[00:02:54] Because we make it fun. We make it what we, I think we resonate as the Inside Lion F1 podcast. The presentation sort of embodies that value.

[00:03:04] So, yeah, I'm excited to show you all what we are trying to do. And like Sundaram said, we are taking baby steps. These are these arrow rakes. And any feedback, any, you know, any criticism, any, any, what's it called?

[00:03:21] So many languages in my head. Any feedback, any criticism, any good words of the upgrades we put in, we'll do our confidence wonders and we will keep upgrading.

[00:03:31] And if there's anything bad you have to say, reach out to one Mr. George Russell plus 911 number 63 because he's the one who taught us how to make PPTs in Formula One anyway.

[00:03:41] So that's where we're learning from. Don't blame us on that. But why don't we go to what's first up?

[00:03:47] We, we'll give you a bit of an idea. The reason why we're doing PPTs is because of what you see on screen right now.

[00:03:55] A massive void in our hearts, yes, because for the first time 24 races actually seems like less given how fun the championship is.

[00:04:04] Well, what on earth is this calendar, man? Why do we have a month long break just before the USGP when we had a three week break right before this?

[00:04:12] And then the summer break before that.

[00:04:13] I think what you said is probably what Formula One is doing. You know, they've realized everyone is saying, especially all the fans, that 24 is too much.

[00:04:21] Drivers are saying 24 is too much. Now, this is a reverse psychology.

[00:04:25] They've done a scheduling where people like us are like, actually, we could have squeezed in one or maybe even two races and a sprint and a rookie race and so many other things.

[00:04:37] And still ended the season when we're going to and still have started the season where we're going to.

[00:04:42] So I think it's, it's down to reverse psychology.

[00:04:45] Although the truth is it's scheduling a Formula One calendar is probably a very, very difficult one.

[00:04:51] Some races have marquee events they want to be associated with or they want to avoid and so on.

[00:04:57] So that's the result of the 2024 Formula One season.

[00:05:00] There's this another thing because if you look at the next six races, we have three rounds in the Americas.

[00:05:06] That's the first triple header. The second triple header is Las Vegas.

[00:05:10] Then people jump on to Qatar and then Abu Dhabi.

[00:05:13] And you would often question why could they not just split it into three double headers, do two rounds in Americas, then further two rounds in Americas,

[00:05:21] and then the last two rounds in the Middle East. But like Kunal says, it's ultimately a case of scheduling and when the race organizers, event organizers want their event to run.

[00:05:30] And unfortunately, this is how it is. And we have four weeks off.

[00:05:33] And it's not new. We've actually seen this very recently.

[00:05:38] Last year between the Australian and Baku races, there were 28 days off, which was again, not the mid-season break.

[00:05:44] And the one that happened before that was way back in 2007, where we had four weeks off as well.

[00:05:50] So, yeah, pretty interesting. I'm actually glad I'm getting four weeks off just to prep and relax a little to kind of get ready for the next couple of triple headers in that sense.

[00:06:01] At least we're not doing Japan, Baku.

[00:06:03] That's good.

[00:06:04] It's like a time zone shift.

[00:06:06] Just to elaborate. So what are these high moments that people want to associate their races with?

[00:06:12] Thanksgiving, for example. Las Vegas wants to be around that time, as we know.

[00:06:16] Or the Middle Eastern races want to avoid the Ramzan period as it comes, which is why Australia is the first race next year and so on.

[00:06:25] And frankly, the biggest customer who's actually paying millions of dollars to host races are the race venues.

[00:06:31] So the least they would say is, yeah, we have limited rights.

[00:06:36] We have limited sponsorship we can sell.

[00:06:38] But the least we can do is at least ask for a date which works for us to be able to, you know, that allows us to sell more tickets.

[00:06:45] Yeah.

[00:06:46] And if anything, I think this works better, at least for us sitting back at home, because there are periods where you're free and there are periods where you're not free.

[00:06:55] It's not like the old calendars where there's constantly something happening every other week.

[00:07:00] And for the people who are traveling and going to the Formula One races every single time, I can imagine this also being somewhat easier in a way, right?

[00:07:08] Because you suddenly have three weeks where you're at home working from the base, working with your family, being there with them, spending time and then being away for a bit.

[00:07:17] Versus you being off every single weekend here or there, just like away, away, away, away, away.

[00:07:22] And then you just get one weekend in the middle.

[00:07:24] By the time you've recovered, you're straight back on to the other one.

[00:07:27] I don't know.

[00:07:27] It's like you get to spend a greater chunk of time at home if that's the right thing.

[00:07:32] And you get to do that three or four times, which is quite something, actually, given that Formula One holidays are not like normal work-like holidays anyway.

[00:07:40] And people would die for the opportunity to have three weeks with their family consistently.

[00:07:44] So it's all right, I'd say.

[00:07:47] Especially for...

[00:07:48] Yeah, I think it's a great job.

[00:07:50] The mechanics get to be at home, especially with these flyaway races that have happened.

[00:07:54] And I'm actually excited to see Red Bull Racing and how they use this time off.

[00:07:59] Because the one team that needs to resurrect not just 24, but this downward trend that could catch them out in 2025, is Red Bull Racing.

[00:08:08] And not just to defend their titles, especially if, I mean, I think title being one, titles being two,

[00:08:14] because they're definitely not winning the constructors.

[00:08:17] But even, you know, if this trend continues, could there be an exit clause in Max Verstappen's contract, which sort of allows him to become a free agent?

[00:08:27] So even though he's signed till 2028 or whatever year he's signed on till, he's...

[00:08:32] And we had Helmut Marko explaining what's a performance contract on our podcast a couple of months ago.

[00:08:38] So pretty much down to how teams will use this.

[00:08:41] But this should actually mean we go to the next slide.

[00:08:44] Because Sundaram, you clearly had a very interesting view on this picture.

[00:08:49] Why don't you just lay it out on us?

[00:08:51] Yeah, although all the team principals on the left actually have their hands on their thighs or in their lap.

[00:08:57] But the ones on the right actually have their hands together folded.

[00:09:00] So yeah, it seems pretty interesting this.

[00:09:03] I don't know if they actually agreed to show a pose this way.

[00:09:06] But yeah, that's the first thing I noticed when I saw this.

[00:09:09] And they're all wearing similar clothes.

[00:09:11] It's all like a blue jumper or a white shirt.

[00:09:15] I don't know, are F1 team principals that boring in person, Kunal?

[00:09:18] Seriously, do they not have any style or any sort of inclination towards fashion or even good watches?

[00:09:24] Because I can't spot one in this picture.

[00:09:27] I mean, the jumper is probably covering a lot of those watches.

[00:09:31] Because almost every team has watch sponsors, partners or whatever you call it.

[00:09:36] But F1 ran a very interesting caption, which I'm going to ask you all.

[00:09:40] Sundaram, starting with you.

[00:09:41] Where would you sit in this picture?

[00:09:43] Okay, for all the people listening in, it's a picture of all the F1 team principals at the F1 commission.

[00:09:51] On the left, we have James Wals, Andrea Stella, Mattia Binotto, Fred Vassur, Stefano Dominicali, Laurent Macchies.

[00:09:58] And at the very back, I can spot Christian Honor.

[00:10:00] And there's also Alessio Aluni Bravi, isn't that?

[00:10:04] But on the left for Sauer, which if it is the case, why is he hitting so far away from Binotto?

[00:10:10] Who's his fellow team mate?

[00:10:11] No, no, one sec.

[00:10:12] Sauer, this is clearly where we need to do a revision on which team principal is who.

[00:10:20] After Laurent Macchies is my crack.

[00:10:23] I know you all can't see it.

[00:10:24] Well, that's my crack.

[00:10:25] Yeah.

[00:10:26] Then there is Christian Honor.

[00:10:28] And then there is a newest team principal, Oliver Oaks, who is just not visible.

[00:10:32] Yeah.

[00:10:33] And lots of people on the right side opposite them in the far end.

[00:10:37] It's the FIA commission.

[00:10:39] I can recognize Nikolas Tombassi.

[00:10:42] Okay.

[00:10:43] But after that, on the right, it's just Ayao Komatsu and Toto Wolff, who I pretty much visually recognize.

[00:10:48] Yeah.

[00:10:49] Where would you not be?

[00:10:50] The other thing I actually kind of noticed is most of them or all of them have notebooks that's branded by RB.

[00:10:59] And Williams, that's the team that's been struggling with a lot of budget, is using a MacBook.

[00:11:05] Whereas Haas has a Lenovo right there.

[00:11:11] Interesting.

[00:11:12] Interesting.

[00:11:13] The reason why they have the VCarb book is because VCarb hosted this F1 commission meeting at their factory premises.

[00:11:20] So it's probably one of their condensed, I mean, it's a fairly condensed meeting room with so many men in it.

[00:11:28] But interesting calendar just on the right on that wall.

[00:11:30] I'd love to have that calendar.

[00:11:31] But let's not digress.

[00:11:33] Where would you guys rather sit?

[00:11:35] Sundaram.

[00:11:36] Sit where?

[00:11:37] As in?

[00:11:38] Yeah.

[00:11:38] I mean, if you had to choose a seat on this table.

[00:11:42] It's obvious.

[00:11:43] There's only one place you have to sit.

[00:11:45] I'm actually choosing the seat between Mike Reich and Christian Hanna for very personal reasons.

[00:11:53] You mean Fernando Alonso reasons.

[00:11:55] Yes.

[00:11:56] I would really love to listen to what Mike has to say about how the progress is going for 2026.

[00:12:00] That's my first priority.

[00:12:02] And thankfully, Christian and Toto are sitting on the opposite side.

[00:12:05] Yeah.

[00:12:06] And thankfully, Christian and Toto are sitting on the opposite ends.

[00:12:08] How about you, Zongal?

[00:12:10] And there's only one seat where you have to be, right?

[00:12:12] Between Fred Vasseur and Mattia Benotto.

[00:12:14] That's where all the enjoyment in life clearly is.

[00:12:16] If you aren't sitting next to Fred Vasseur, I mean, do you have any concept of enjoying your life?

[00:12:23] Seriously?

[00:12:25] That's the kind of person you want to surround yourself with.

[00:12:28] Clearly.

[00:12:28] That's where I want to be.

[00:12:29] His humor is next to none.

[00:12:32] And I've actually sat through a lot of team principal press conferences.

[00:12:36] I can even, you know, Fred has probably just stopped laughing just before the picture.

[00:12:41] That's probably what happened.

[00:12:42] And after the picture, he's laughed and cracked a wise crack as well.

[00:12:45] But I would probably also do Mike Crack and Christian Horner.

[00:12:49] Just for Christian Horner to ask, okay, how many shares does Adrian Newey actually have?

[00:12:55] Because, hey, that's what I've been trying to get at Fred Vasseur Racing.

[00:12:57] And you don't have it, Aston Martin, either.

[00:13:00] How many shares does he have?

[00:13:02] But these gentlemen actually decided that they wanted a rookie race.

[00:13:07] The team principals did.

[00:13:09] But the FIA actually backed it down.

[00:13:11] And they're saying, we will not have a rookie race at the end of the 2025, 2024 season.

[00:13:16] And I must say, I'm actually bummed because, you know, the FIA said we don't get a lot of credit.

[00:13:23] This is one of those things that they do that they don't get a lot of credit.

[00:13:26] We'd love to see rookies in a Formula One car.

[00:13:28] My only question was, wouldn't it look odd if there were just 10 rookies racing?

[00:13:33] Because it was one rookie per team.

[00:13:34] So I'm not used to seeing 10 cars racing unless it's Bottas taking five cars out and turn one of Hungary when it's wet.

[00:13:41] Okay.

[00:13:42] But that still leaves us with 15 cars.

[00:13:44] My other thing is, this is one of the reasons why the F1 team principals would hate what the FIA has done.

[00:13:50] Which I'm pretty sure there are logical reasons.

[00:13:52] But the rookie race was actually a way for Formula One and for the teams to make more money.

[00:14:00] Especially at a time of the season when they go spending money rather than earning money.

[00:14:06] Because the rookies would have paid to race.

[00:14:08] Okay.

[00:14:09] There would have been a television contract extension, etc., etc., etc.

[00:14:13] You guys get the drill.

[00:14:15] So FIA has taken away a chance to make some more money in the off-season for the Formula One teams.

[00:14:22] No wonder they don't like the FIA leadership so much.

[00:14:26] It's like I don't get the point of a rookie race.

[00:14:29] Sure, making money is one thing.

[00:14:31] But does it really promote rookies?

[00:14:36] I don't think it does.

[00:14:37] Because ultimately, sure, you are going to get one or two opportunities to see which rookie is good.

[00:14:43] But I don't think the rookies can really prove themselves in any rookie race whatsoever.

[00:14:47] Because if they're doing only one one-off race, the teams will quite clearly tell them, guys, cautious.

[00:14:53] It's not your car.

[00:14:55] Don't break it.

[00:14:56] And if there are only 10 cars, there's no real competition.

[00:14:59] So ultimately, we know that there are only one or two teams that might be competitive enough or close to each other at Abu Dhabi for the win.

[00:15:07] Which means that the McLaren rookie versus, hypothetically, the Red Bull rookie are the only ones who get to fight with each other.

[00:15:14] And the leader of those two rookies is eventually called, what, the best rookie possible?

[00:15:18] Is that a really fair way to judge them?

[00:15:20] At least have two drivers or two cars where you can test how one rookie fares compared to the other one.

[00:15:26] Ultimately, I see no logic behind it.

[00:15:27] They'll just drive conservatively, go round and round in circles.

[00:15:30] And the same rookies who are a part of the FP1 programs will ultimately just be around anyway.

[00:15:35] So I don't see what difference it makes, really.

[00:15:38] I agree with every point of view of yours.

[00:15:41] Apart from the last one, the same rookies will be around.

[00:15:44] And I'll tell you why I don't agree.

[00:15:45] If at all there's a rookie race, and which I pretty much think is going to happen, there's going to be a bidding war.

[00:15:52] Sure.

[00:15:53] Rookies will pay to race.

[00:15:55] In the rookie race, just because it's officiated by the FIA.

[00:16:00] Sorry, by Formula One.

[00:16:02] But either way, I like your point.

[00:16:04] You know, would you really be testing rookies if there is such a large difference in car packages?

[00:16:08] And I've always believed anything outside of the Constructors' Championship, which would mean a race like this, would be.

[00:16:16] We should actually just give them equal cars.

[00:16:18] Just paint them in whichever livery logos.

[00:16:20] Give them equal cars.

[00:16:22] But that's almost never going to happen.

[00:16:24] I mean, that's what Formula Two is called.

[00:16:26] And clearly, Formula Two is not the way young drivers are brought up to F1 now.

[00:16:31] Yeah.

[00:16:32] And the cars are far from being equal as well.

[00:16:36] Well then.

[00:16:37] Okay.

[00:16:39] Should we go on to the next one?

[00:16:42] I think we should.

[00:16:43] Oy!

[00:16:46] 17 minutes in.

[00:16:47] Somal, this is where you take over.

[00:16:50] Yikes.

[00:16:50] Wow.

[00:16:50] We are 17 minutes in.

[00:16:51] Guys, by the way, this is who we are.

[00:16:53] We are the Inside Line F1 podcast.

[00:16:57] And what can I say now?

[00:17:00] I'm actually lost for words for once.

[00:17:02] Okay.

[00:17:03] I'll make it easier.

[00:17:04] Why don't we just switch to the slide where Somal Arora introduces himself?

[00:17:08] Because he rarely does it the way I would like for him to.

[00:17:12] I get to talk about race cars going round and round in circles.

[00:17:16] And race bikes as well.

[00:17:17] Which has included half my portfolio.

[00:17:19] Which is the MotoGP Indian Grand Prix.

[00:17:21] The Indian Supercross Racing League.

[00:17:23] Lots of bikes in the JKTi National Racing Championship too.

[00:17:26] But apart from that, there's lots of stuff with Formula E that I've done.

[00:17:29] Including being a Formula E expert on Sony ESPN.

[00:17:32] It's weird that I was called an expert at that time.

[00:17:35] But it was a good fun period.

[00:17:37] And then also the Indian Racing League and Indian F4 Championship.

[00:17:40] Which of course is going on anyway these days.

[00:17:43] Okay Sundaram, your chance now.

[00:17:45] Well I am...

[00:17:48] I absolutely love it.

[00:17:49] How humble you actually tried to be with your introduction.

[00:17:52] But yes, I am Sundaram.

[00:17:55] Also known as F1 Stats Guru.

[00:17:56] One of the most followed motorsport statisticians in motorsport.

[00:18:01] Yeah.

[00:18:01] And yeah, I've done a lot of work for F1 Academy, Sky Sports, BBC.

[00:18:05] And you can also find a lot of content that I put up on my Instagram as well.

[00:18:10] But I actually realized we probably don't have a slide for Kunal over here.

[00:18:13] So Kunal, you might have to do it without...

[00:18:15] I do, but it's a lot of words.

[00:18:16] It's a lot of words.

[00:18:17] Yeah.

[00:18:18] Old format.

[00:18:20] The upgrade has come in half cooked.

[00:18:22] Yes.

[00:18:25] But it probably reflects the three different generations the three of us belong to.

[00:18:30] I come from the generation of actually writing stuff.

[00:18:34] But hi, I'm Kunal.

[00:18:35] Well, probably everyone who's been listening to us since 2011 would recognize the voice.

[00:18:42] Probably recognizes the daddy jokes that I make as well.

[00:18:47] But, you know, do a lot of Formula One TV work with Wireplay.

[00:18:52] And yeah, I founded the Inside Line F1 podcast in 2011.

[00:18:57] And it gives me great joy to say we are, you know, top 5% of most shared podcasts in the world.

[00:19:04] And top 1.5% of all podcasts.

[00:19:08] So very excited to be bringing Formula One to you guys, especially in the different ways, different formats, different voices that we've had on the platform since 2011.

[00:19:20] And some of the brands we've worked with.

[00:19:21] Actually, very proud, no?

[00:19:24] Yeah, we've done a few.

[00:19:26] Red Bull, Puma, Johnny Walker, the official broadcaster in India, Fan Code, Social, who we dearly miss if you are listening social.

[00:19:35] Come on, guys.

[00:19:36] Please.

[00:19:36] Please.

[00:19:38] We still miss you.

[00:19:40] Amazon Music, NordVPN, H-Sleep, Heineken as well.

[00:19:43] Yeah, so many fun brands.

[00:19:44] In fact, there's lots of events that are going to be coming up later on towards the end of the year with some of these really cool brands.

[00:19:50] And there are some really exciting things we can't wait to present to you.

[00:19:54] So stay tuned for that one if you are in and around Mumbai.

[00:19:57] But let's get to talking about the Formula One once again, because lots of stuff has been happening in the background.

[00:20:04] There's so many topics we want to discuss.

[00:20:05] What have we put in the presentation?

[00:20:08] Because normally I just tend to refer to in the notes.

[00:20:10] Oh, I see Liam Lawson and Daniel Ricciardo.

[00:20:13] So, the question I have for you guys is not about Ricciardo because we've spoken enough about him on our Singapore GB review.

[00:20:22] I'm just in this weird space.

[00:20:24] Some might call it overthinking.

[00:20:26] Some might call it great content analysis.

[00:20:28] But does Lawson need Red Bull more than Red Bull needs Lawson?

[00:20:33] Because I feel it's the latter.

[00:20:34] I feel Red Bull are in this space where they need to vindicate themselves by getting at least one of their junior drivers into the program.

[00:20:42] And if they keep Liam Lawson waiting for too long, it just goes on as a vote of no confidence in a way.

[00:20:48] Because how many other Red Bull juniors have we had in coming into Formula One in the last few years?

[00:20:52] Yeah, I mean there have been just a handful of drivers who've come in through the Red Bull Driver Academy and actually excelled with the senior team.

[00:21:02] There's only Max Verstappen, Sebastian Vettel and Daniel Ricciardo who've actually won races with the Red Bull team.

[00:21:07] Although the likes of P.I. Gasly, Alex Albon and several have raced for that team.

[00:21:12] Even Gasly has won a race, mind you.

[00:21:14] Not for Red Bull, but for Alfa Tauri.

[00:21:16] Good point.

[00:21:17] So that's the thing.

[00:21:19] And the question is, does Red Bull really need Lawson than the other way around?

[00:21:24] I feel both really need each other.

[00:21:26] But probably 60-40 in Red Bull's favour.

[00:21:29] Because although they have two drivers tied down for the long term, Sergio Perez and Max Verstappen until, what, 2028.

[00:21:36] I feel there is a possibility they could be without any of these drivers in 2026.

[00:21:42] Yuki Tsunoda probably leaves when Honda leaves.

[00:21:44] Because Sergio Perez is ageing and not in the best of form.

[00:21:48] And if Max Verstappen feels 2025 has been yet another dot of a season, similar to how the mid-season has been for Red Bull this year.

[00:21:57] He might want to look at seeing how his prospects are with Mercedes.

[00:22:01] And in that sense, you really want to have a driver who has already been a part of the system.

[00:22:08] He knows a part of the team.

[00:22:09] He knows how the car functions.

[00:22:10] And you really need him to acclimatize to everything.

[00:22:14] Which is why I feel Lawson coming into the car or into the team at this point is perfect.

[00:22:20] And you don't want other teams to kind of catch up onto Lawson and sign him like how McLaren signed a piastree.

[00:22:28] Red Bull also don't want that to happen.

[00:22:30] So in that sense, I think Red Bull putting Lawson in the car right now is very apt.

[00:22:34] Give him enough time so that if any one of these drivers move away, he can actually get into the Red Bull.

[00:22:40] Yeah, it is about succession planning.

[00:22:43] And succession planning is linked to what will happen if Max Verstappen leaves.

[00:22:49] Do they buy George Russell from the pool?

[00:22:51] Which I think would be a downgrade from Max Verstappen.

[00:22:55] And I think he's just, you know, Christian Honos has said that to wind up Toto Wolff, which is something he loves to do.

[00:23:01] But I get a feeling it is to assess.

[00:23:06] Yeah, so the Red Bull is stuck with a few assessment of challenges.

[00:23:10] How good is Yuki Tsunoda, for example, right?

[00:23:14] When he was learning, Pierre Gasly just, you know, was much quicker because of experience.

[00:23:19] And then Yuki's been up against Nick DeVries and Daniel Ricciardo, who, you know, Red Bull didn't think too highly of, which is why they got rid of the two of them.

[00:23:27] Could Liam Lawson be that benchmark?

[00:23:30] And could Yuki, who's also been contracted for the long term, be put under pressure?

[00:23:34] Because there is Ayumu Iwasa, but also crucially Isaac Harcher.

[00:23:39] And if Toto Wolff, Jos Verstappen and Max Verstappen keep flirting with each other and one day commit to that relationship that Sundaram spoke of,

[00:23:49] Red Bull doesn't want to be stuck in a place where, guess what?

[00:23:52] We had three or four rookies we could have tried out, but we didn't.

[00:23:55] So I still get a feeling, even though Lawson will get in a shot at 2025, if early 2025, and, you know, depending on how Red Bull sees early, early,

[00:24:05] if he continues to outperform, he's not even started, but if he outperforms Yuki Tsunoda and gets in that trajectory,

[00:24:15] maybe Yuki Tsunoda is going to be under pressure as well.

[00:24:18] Okay.

[00:24:18] Because then they are going to say, could we put Ayumi Iwasa and test him out?

[00:24:22] Right.

[00:24:22] And Red Bull's philosophy has, you know, always been put the driver under pressure, see where they go.

[00:24:28] And can we just assess them that way?

[00:24:31] And, you know, the headlines, of course, Christian Horner came on the F1 Nation podcast.

[00:24:35] He said, if Checo doesn't perform, if Liam doesn't perform, who knows, Daniel could be back in the car.

[00:24:42] If that's the way of looking at it, I think it's a low benchmark for Checo and Liam.

[00:24:48] The benchmark is not Daniel Ricciardo, who they've just dropped.

[00:24:52] The benchmark is supposed to be how much closer to Max Verstappen will they have Liam Lawson to be?

[00:25:00] Because that's really where they're putting in all their money on, saying,

[00:25:04] could Liam be that guy who joins Max in 2025?

[00:25:08] And we can get rid of Perez.

[00:25:12] No, it's a weird little place to be for Red Bull Racing, from having such an abundance to barely having anything at all.

[00:25:18] And something tells me it's not an imprint of Dr. Marco, like the junior drivers not being treated in the same light.

[00:25:27] And someone like Yuki being given far more time and far less competition.

[00:25:31] Something seems off.

[00:25:32] This is not the Toro Rosso or the Alpha Tauri or the Vika, tell me about it, that we know and love for a very, very long time.

[00:25:41] Because clearly, in three years, there would have been more competition.

[00:25:45] So I find it weird how this is going.

[00:25:47] I'm wondering if Yuki Sunoda is the only driver to do four consecutive seasons in the sister Red Bull team, which I really have to find out.

[00:25:54] I don't think anyone's done four in a row.

[00:25:57] I could be wrong.

[00:26:00] So I think Verne was there for two or three, but yeah, not that long.

[00:26:04] And I've just moved the slide.

[00:26:06] It's Franco Colapinto after one of his impressive races.

[00:26:10] Actually, all three of them have been impressive with Williams.

[00:26:13] And I loved how Red Bull actually took inspiration from Oliver Behrman and Colapinto to bring Liam Lawson into the picture.

[00:26:22] Right.

[00:26:23] Right.

[00:26:24] And like Somal, you've been saying, are drivers coming more prepared to Formula One than ever before?

[00:26:32] And in fact, ladies and gentlemen, we are in queue to have the team principal of Invicta and then the team principal of Prema Racing on our show in the next couple of weeks to talk exactly about junior drivers and their preparation and how Formula teams actually work with them and help them get better.

[00:26:51] But Franco Colapinto, anyone thinks Sauber's going to hire him instead of Valtteri Bottas?

[00:27:01] Depends on how much hot water they find themselves in, no?

[00:27:05] If they're confident that they're in a really poor shape, I think I'd rather go for a Valtteri Bottas.

[00:27:13] Because you want the dependability and you want someone who can at least get you those points.

[00:27:16] I mean, not saying that Franco Colapinto won't, but someone with 10 years of experience underneath their belt across a Mercedes, across a Williams at different stages of their functioning.

[00:27:27] One at a very high level, one at a very low level, who can just guide you on those things a little bit.

[00:27:32] Nico Hulkenberg is one of those drivers.

[00:27:34] But does he have the experience of what it takes to be a winning team?

[00:27:37] The winning mentality that Bottas brings in from Mercedes?

[00:27:41] Not to say that he was a winner himself, but you be in that environment around and you pick up lots of things.

[00:27:46] So, I mean, it's unfortunate that we might just see Franco Colapinto in IndyCar or somewhere else next season.

[00:27:53] But I don't know, what would you guys do if you were the team principal?

[00:27:56] I would actually like to go the other way, you know, because since you already have someone like Nico Hulkenberg, someone who brings in a lot of experience, I would actually put Franco Colapinto in the second seat.

[00:28:07] Firstly, the fact that he's a young driver.

[00:28:10] He's very young in that regard and it probably allows for different styles or different perspectives of how they look at their racing.

[00:28:19] And then more importantly, maybe also the sponsor backing that he brings for the team if they really need that.

[00:28:25] And yeah, in that regard, I would probably choose a Franco Colapinto.

[00:28:29] And the thing is, has he done enough in Formula One?

[00:28:33] For me, there's only one thing.

[00:28:35] These teams will not always be in the points.

[00:28:37] They will always spend a lot of the time outside the points.

[00:28:40] But whenever the car has enough pace to be flirting with the points being positions, you want your drivers to do well.

[00:28:46] And at least in that aspect, I think Colapinto has done well.

[00:28:50] So it's still early to say if he's done enough, but he's done all the right things so far.

[00:28:55] This is what I feel.

[00:28:56] I would probably go pick up Checo Perez and put him in the Audi.

[00:29:01] That's a very good idea.

[00:29:02] I would do that.

[00:29:03] I think Audi, if they...

[00:29:05] So, you know, if you remember, again, Christian Danner was on our podcast.

[00:29:09] Gave us a great, you know, insight into Audi and how ill-prepared they are in lots of ways.

[00:29:16] Mateo Binotto said we are probably going to be behind everyone in the 2026 regulations in terms of power unit as well.

[00:29:23] And, you know, on one hand, Mercedes is saying we've exceeded all our expectations in the 2026 power unit.

[00:29:29] Renault said we were actually very impressed with our 2026 power unit.

[00:29:33] Renault, by the way, of course, won't be giving Alpine those power units.

[00:29:37] But Audi was being realistic, saying we are probably behind everyone else.

[00:29:40] We just don't know how much.

[00:29:41] It's difficult to say right now.

[00:29:43] So, I get a feeling if the team is anyway lost in a lot of ways.

[00:29:47] And you put a rookie in there like Colapinto.

[00:29:51] Could just be what happened to Kevin Magnussen and McLaren.

[00:29:54] You know, you do a season and suddenly you're like, great talent.

[00:29:57] But guess what?

[00:29:58] We can't do much about it.

[00:30:00] So, there we go.

[00:30:02] Yeah.

[00:30:02] Genuinely.

[00:30:03] And that becomes a case where the team just needs a different profile of driver at that given moment.

[00:30:11] And I'm so glad you referenced that Christian Dander interview, Kunal.

[00:30:15] Because that one sentiment is finally being echoed in the media now.

[00:30:19] That Audi probably aren't as prepared as we think they would be.

[00:30:22] And they are probably underestimating Formula 1.

[00:30:25] And it's only so late that they've realized that their old structure, before they even came to Formula 1, wasn't quite working.

[00:30:31] So, a gigantic structural management change just six months before your team actually takes shape.

[00:30:37] Doesn't sound like the best of news to me in any way whatsoever.

[00:30:41] And I don't know who's in…

[00:30:42] That's also what's happened at Alpine.

[00:30:45] Yeah, exactly.

[00:30:47] Exactly.

[00:30:48] The strategic advisory…

[00:30:51] Is this the best strategic advice that Flavio Breitore has come up with, Sundaram?

[00:30:57] Just take the works engine and drop the works because the engine doesn't work.

[00:31:03] It's very odd for me.

[00:31:05] And that's why there is so much of hope that this team or this outfit gets it together.

[00:31:11] But they unfortunately seem to be sinking with each year.

[00:31:14] I think every six months we see some sort of management restructuring or reshuffling happening at this team.

[00:31:20] And it is so odd.

[00:31:22] It's quite ironic as well that this is the outfit that actually first introduced turbocharged engines way back in the late 1970s.

[00:31:32] And they saw potential in what could happen.

[00:31:35] But of course, they've been struggling with the very same thing, reliability, back then as well.

[00:31:40] And this is one of the few engines, engine manufacturers that have just not aced or understood or implemented the hybrid era well.

[00:31:51] Last 10 years has been a struggle.

[00:31:53] And in the last couple of years, it's been a case of lack of investment, lack of ambition probably.

[00:31:59] I know they've kept a 100 race plan or a 200 race plan to be right at the front, not even to win teams or something of that sort.

[00:32:06] But it's very sad to see the second most successful engine manufacturer in Formula One.

[00:32:13] Ferrari has won 16 titles as an engine supplier.

[00:32:16] Renault has won 12.

[00:32:17] And the likes of Mercedes and Honda have come further back.

[00:32:20] It's actually a very big thing to see Renault walking away from the store.

[00:32:24] And pretty sad in that sense that they're not going to be part of the grid anymore.

[00:32:28] Are we still talking Renault or can we move on to...

[00:32:31] No, we should actually for a second.

[00:32:34] Because of legacy.

[00:32:37] Because think about it.

[00:32:40] 1970s, that's when Renault introduced their turbos.

[00:32:42] It's been over 50 years of engine excellence.

[00:32:46] Take out the last 10, maybe at least 40 years of excellence in the engine department.

[00:32:52] They've powered so many teams.

[00:32:53] Their own team, Benetton, Red Bull Racing to such phenomenal results.

[00:32:59] It's like...

[00:33:00] I can't describe just how big it is.

[00:33:03] I mean, Renault is the Ferrari of France.

[00:33:06] So come to think of it.

[00:33:08] Imagine Ferrari saying we won't make engines anymore.

[00:33:10] We're just going to focus on bodies because that's what people like.

[00:33:13] And come to think about it, that'll just kill it, right?

[00:33:16] Because the coach building brands of old, the Pininfarinas of the world,

[00:33:20] they died out because coach building just wasn't quite a thing anymore.

[00:33:24] And you had to be a complete manufacturer.

[00:33:26] And now in Formula 1, we're getting to a reverse of that.

[00:33:29] Where all you need to do is coach building and the engines can be taken care of by someone else.

[00:33:33] Like a manufacturer voluntarily raises their hand and says,

[00:33:36] we're not going to do this anymore.

[00:33:37] And I get why.

[00:33:39] Because Formula 1 is not the same Formula 1 anymore.

[00:33:41] And it's far more important to come up with a profitable team.

[00:33:46] But I don't know.

[00:33:48] Something is weird about this Kunal.

[00:33:49] And the whole rebranding of it as the Alpine Technology Performance Center,

[00:33:53] whatever it might be.

[00:33:55] These things, do they even work out well?

[00:33:57] Like when you take so many Formula 1 engineers and put them on to less competitive tasks.

[00:34:02] I mean, and you know, there's also this talk of the advantage of being a works team

[00:34:08] where the chassis and the power unit are well integrated, etc, etc.

[00:34:12] And McLaren is clearly blowing a hole through that philosophy as well.

[00:34:16] You know, they've shown that you can win being a customer team as well.

[00:34:22] And I think it's also down to how Formula 1 used to be previously.

[00:34:25] I mean, Sauber used to use old Ferrari engines till almost a decade or some ago.

[00:34:31] And now everyone mandated by law regulations gets the same engines.

[00:34:36] So my feeling about Alpine is they're just getting ready to make a purchase.

[00:34:42] They will do what it takes to get a higher valuation.

[00:34:47] And then they are probably just going to be on their way out.

[00:34:50] Either, you know, Renault will then do what Mercedes does.

[00:34:54] We call it the Mercedes AMG, whatever, Petronas, F1 team.

[00:34:58] But Mercedes truly doesn't really own too much of the team.

[00:35:00] There's Toto Wolves, there's Ines, there's Mercedes Branding, which etc. they get.

[00:35:04] And that's probably the model Renault is also trying to go get.

[00:35:08] Specialists to run it, give it a badged works entry name or whatever you call it.

[00:35:13] But put in the best package to try and get better results.

[00:35:18] And then hence have more private investors who would value it higher.

[00:35:22] But, you know, Flavio Briatore has gotten rid of the Renault power unit program.

[00:35:30] Just to identify is the issue of the power unit?

[00:35:33] Is it the chassis?

[00:35:34] Which is understandable.

[00:35:35] But he's also introduced a new motor home, which of course would have cost a lot of money,

[00:35:42] which has piqued Christian Horner's interest in Briatore's own world.

[00:35:47] So let's see how that goes.

[00:35:49] You know, ultimately a power unit is a motor and a motor home is also got a motor in it.

[00:35:54] So someday.

[00:35:55] Such a flabby Briatore story.

[00:35:57] Like, I will drop the power unit, but I'll bring a new motor home because the perception is what matters.

[00:36:03] That's how I can sell clients.

[00:36:04] If I have a more premium space to have coffee with them on.

[00:36:08] That is phenomenal.

[00:36:09] Flavio Briatore is back to Formula 1 to get a proper send-off and farewell,

[00:36:15] which is something he didn't get, which is something Logan Sargent didn't get,

[00:36:20] which is something Kevin Magnussen and Joe Guanyu might just get.

[00:36:25] Kevin, at least for the second time, and which is something Daniel Ricciardo didn't get,

[00:36:29] which has caused an uproar on social media.

[00:36:33] Yeah, I think this is a good moment to say farewell, no Sundaram?

[00:36:37] Because I'm pretty sure end of season, we're going to be focusing on more important storylines.

[00:36:43] Yeah.

[00:36:44] Didn't really give Daniel Ricciardo a good enough farewell in the last time.

[00:36:47] And for some reason, he himself has not said that I'm leaving Formula 1.

[00:36:53] But yet everyone is making it sound like he's leaving Formula 1.

[00:36:56] And for some reason, I don't know why there's a one-person feeling that maybe Daniel is not leaving Formula 1.

[00:37:03] But I hope that's not the case.

[00:37:05] I think he's really done and dusted with the sport.

[00:37:07] And as exciting as it might sound, like coming back and trying to prove everyone wrong,

[00:37:13] hopefully that's not the case.

[00:37:14] And yes, maybe he should have been given a more befitting farewell for what he's done with the Red Bull team in particular,

[00:37:23] which is a little sad.

[00:37:25] But I really don't understand why would they have not announced it before.

[00:37:30] This is something everyone's trying to understand.

[00:37:32] I get a feeling it was like, I think we covered this in the Singapore review.

[00:37:37] Had he got a podium, he would have stayed on.

[00:37:40] So it was performance-based.

[00:37:43] Daniel, you're far away from Yuki in points and gaps, whatever, whatever.

[00:37:47] And that's why he also said, if I get a podium this weekend, maybe things will change.

[00:37:51] And I get a feeling it was then left up to him if he wants to go ahead and say he's retiring, he's moving on, he's taking on a new role.

[00:37:59] And, you know, Christian Horner again said he wants Daniel in an ambassadorial role.

[00:38:03] And you know why?

[00:38:04] He said because Max doesn't really like going and meeting all the sponsors everywhere.

[00:38:07] So Daniel Ricciardo, who's clearly had, of course, a great personality, very entertaining, widest grain, etc.,

[00:38:16] will only be remembered for being an ambassador for Red Bull should he actually choose to take that up,

[00:38:21] which I really hope he doesn't because you spoke of legacy.

[00:38:25] And I would hate for Daniel's legacy to not be his dive bombs, his beating of Sebastian Vettel,

[00:38:31] his going head-to-head with Max Verstappen and his shoeys.

[00:38:36] And, you know, suddenly just ends up being a driver who's being paid millions to show his face,

[00:38:41] take pictures, smile, give some trophies and whatever away and talk of how the good old days of racing were in his case.

[00:38:48] And Daniel himself has said, you know, maybe age caught up with him and that their rookies, again,

[00:38:54] have been coming extremely well prepared to Formula One.

[00:38:57] Right. Discipline, guys. We've spoken about Ricciardo enough.

[00:39:00] This was meant to be a Logan Sargent farewell. Come on.

[00:39:03] Like, I know we don't like him as much, not as a person, at least what he achieved in Formula One.

[00:39:09] But does that mean we'll not talk about him at all?

[00:39:12] Because we brushed over him for a minute once Caller Pinto was announced and then, phew, off he goes.

[00:39:18] But I don't think I did not like him as a person. I mean, I don't know him.

[00:39:22] As a person he's quite nice, yeah.

[00:39:23] Yeah, he was humble. He was accepting.

[00:39:25] Of course, you know, everyone has their struggles.

[00:39:28] He's had his. It didn't gel with Williams.

[00:39:31] But it's just that what he couldn't do as a driver overlapped on what people thought his personality was,

[00:39:38] which I don't blame the fans because all you get to see are the drivers.

[00:39:41] The most you get to see of them is in the car.

[00:39:44] Okay. And a couple of minute long interviews that you get.

[00:39:46] So in the car, if you don't perform, it overlaps with your personality or capabilities, etc.

[00:39:50] It's unfortunate. But that's just how the business goes.

[00:39:53] There's no farewell words for him or Magnuson Sundaram?

[00:39:57] Come on.

[00:39:59] I mean, for me, I think Logan Sargent has stayed on for half a season longer than ideal.

[00:40:07] And like I said, there's, like Kunal said, nothing against the person and himself.

[00:40:11] At least he didn't shove his trainer in the garage.

[00:40:13] So he feels really tried, but just didn't have enough pace to kind of prove his longevity or his space or his place in the sport.

[00:40:24] Kevin Magnuson, for me, is also a very interesting case.

[00:40:26] The person left sports car racing a place where he was a little bit more competitive.

[00:40:31] I think he even got a race win back in 2021, but then chose to come back to Haas and struggle for points,

[00:40:38] which is what, which is again, the pull of Formula 1 in itself is so massive that you really want to come back

[00:40:44] and just still be a part of the whole bandwagon.

[00:40:47] It'll be good.

[00:40:48] I hope, I hope Kevin has a very interesting last six races and not too incident-filled at least.

[00:40:56] But yes, farewell, Kevin.

[00:40:58] No, he got a pole position.

[00:41:01] It should be incident-filled.

[00:41:05] It should be incident-filled.

[00:41:06] That's what a Kevin Magnuson race is.

[00:41:08] Yeah, and he got a pole position.

[00:41:11] Yeah, he got a pole position.

[00:41:12] I think that also, with that Haas in Brazil, that's his legacy.

[00:41:17] That's what we remember him from.

[00:41:19] And I'll actually miss Laura Magnuson, his daughter,

[00:41:23] and the cuteness that she would have, you know,

[00:41:26] with trying to be so involved with her father's racing.

[00:41:29] Who knows?

[00:41:30] She's probably going to end up racing as well.

[00:41:32] That'll be so cool.

[00:41:33] That'll be so cool.

[00:41:34] But let's see.

[00:41:35] I mean, we should talk about these drivers more in depth sometime later.

[00:41:38] Because for a break, we've only given them like a break's worth of attention.

[00:41:42] But there will be like a proper post-season episode

[00:41:45] where we dive on to these sort of lesser-known stories

[00:41:48] and kind of come up with the Inside Line F1 Awards

[00:41:50] and bring out the things that you really missed out on, but we did.

[00:41:55] But thank you for listening now, folks.

[00:41:56] The interviews that we mentioned with the team principal of Invicta and Prema

[00:42:00] are going to come up shortly.

[00:42:01] So stay tuned for that.

[00:42:03] And yeah, subscribe to the Inside Line F1 podcast for more of the same.

[00:42:06] You know we're going to be here anyway, races or not.

[00:42:08] So if you want your F1 content, here we are.