The Man Behind the Music: Mohammed Rafi Sahab !

[00:00:00] This is our heartfelt tribute to Rafi Sahab, who lives in our heart, delights our soul.

[00:00:07] He was always happy. Right yellow, and that's one stripe going from the front to the back. But everybody knew that it was the other bus car.

[00:00:14] But I didn't look, and as the car was going past, my, it went on to the car.

[00:00:20] So one was Rafi Sahab, and one was Karman had his cry.

[00:00:23] The whole Rafi family was in the bus. Newly married.

[00:00:25] I was asked, who is your favorite singer? This is the question asked to all the new bahu's.

[00:00:32] Now onto Rafi Sahab's thing. He going to win this.

[00:00:37] She's still a second of the nation. I love it. This is the Chinese.

[00:00:41] The little combination of the Chinese and Gujarati.

[00:00:45] It's been really an emotional episode, which is first of its time actually, I have to say.

[00:00:50] It would have been lovely for him to be here. Just thankful for all the memories.

[00:00:55] This is India, a story in the making. And I'm your host, Laveena Tandon.

[00:01:01] Hello and welcome to India, a story in the making.

[00:01:04] If you love the golden era of Hindi music, or you are a music lover, this episode is for you.

[00:01:12] Because we are about to give a tribute to a man who was one of the strongest pillars of the golden era of Hindi music,

[00:01:22] Hindi film music or Bollywood as they say.

[00:01:26] And not only a golden voice, but a man with a golden heart.

[00:01:30] Muhammad Rafi Sahab.

[00:01:33] It's his hundred years, a centenary.

[00:01:36] He was born on the 24th, 4th of December 1924.

[00:01:40] And this is a tribute to him from India, a story in the making.

[00:01:45] And with me, to give this tribute and take you through a beautiful journey,

[00:01:53] Rizwan Rafi Sahab is his first grandson, Rizwan Rafi Sahab.

[00:01:58] Thank you.

[00:01:59] I have to call everyone.

[00:02:00] First of all, Godhaniva.

[00:02:01] Thank you very much.

[00:02:02] And if I zone into Hindi once in a while, I'll try and translate because we have UK audience as well.

[00:02:07] But you know, it will happen.

[00:02:09] Because of who?

[00:02:10] I'll be UK then.

[00:02:11] I can talk in Hindi and I can switch to English.

[00:02:14] So, first of all, where are we sitting?

[00:02:16] We are sitting in Rizwan Rafi Sahab in Sabakats or Sabi as they call it.

[00:02:22] How his wife's beautiful EL kitchens, which is East London kitchens.

[00:02:28] This is a special, they make German kitchens and they do bespoke kitchens.

[00:02:33] And I wish I knew them before when I was doing my kitchen, but it didn't happen.

[00:02:38] Or ye may reek.

[00:02:39] It'll be a I wish kind of list.

[00:02:42] So, I'm sitting here because we try to choose a place which is yours and it has a story.

[00:02:48] So, this has a story as well and how they came here.

[00:02:52] A lot of Rafi Sahab's family is here.

[00:02:54] And I would consistently call you Rafi Sahab.

[00:02:57] Can I tell you why?

[00:02:58] Sure.

[00:02:59] Because one of the person, a very close family friend of mine, inspired me to do this episode.

[00:03:06] One time I called him and I knew he was a Muhammad Rafi fan.

[00:03:11] And I said Muhammad Rafi and he was very upset.

[00:03:14] Come, say.

[00:03:15] But then he just told me how and why we should only call him Rafi Sahab.

[00:03:20] That's right.

[00:03:21] And now I have to call you Rafi Sahab.

[00:03:23] No, no.

[00:03:24] I always say to people Dadan Ba was Rafi Sahab.

[00:03:28] I'm just Rizwan.

[00:03:31] Rizwan Ji, shoulder not hurting?

[00:03:33] No, no, no. All good.

[00:03:34] Oh, you're carrying the legacy.

[00:03:35] I know.

[00:03:36] Very heavy legacy.

[00:03:38] Very heavy.

[00:03:38] Very, very. Yes.

[00:03:40] But a lot of has been said about Rafi Sahab.

[00:03:43] But today, can you see all these pictures here?

[00:03:46] We're going to be doing this rare journey of pictures.

[00:03:51] And I'm going to pick one of them now, already.

[00:03:53] So do you know who this person is?

[00:03:56] This person?

[00:03:58] This is this person.

[00:04:01] So this is Rizwan Sahab in Rafi Sahab's hand.

[00:04:07] And he cancelled, he never used to cancel recordings.

[00:04:10] That's right.

[00:04:10] Never.

[00:04:11] He was very punctual and very steadfast about any appointments,

[00:04:15] any rehearsals that he made.

[00:04:17] He would be there even a little bit earlier,

[00:04:20] but he would be there on pack.

[00:04:22] Exactly.

[00:04:22] But he did so for you.

[00:04:24] Tell me the story.

[00:04:25] Be my least beautiful big child.

[00:04:27] I was born back in 1966, October.

[00:04:32] And Dadan Ba, when he got the news that his first grandchild was born,

[00:04:37] he cancelled his recording and came to England to see his first grandchild.

[00:04:43] Of course, any grandparent would be so proud and happy.

[00:04:48] So you guys were already living as you.

[00:04:50] So tell me about your journey here.

[00:04:53] My parents came to England back in 64, 65.

[00:04:58] So you are your parents, Saeed Sahab?

[00:05:01] So my father, Saeed, Saeed Rafi, was the oldest son.

[00:05:05] Yeah.

[00:05:05] And I'm the oldest grandson.

[00:05:08] And it transpires as well.

[00:05:10] My sons, I have two sons grown up now.

[00:05:12] So my oldest son is the oldest great grandson.

[00:05:16] So that's how the lineage carries on.

[00:05:19] The first one continues.

[00:05:20] Okay.

[00:05:21] So tell me, and why here?

[00:05:23] Dadan, he wanted to let his children go and pursue their own different lines,

[00:05:31] dreams, loves, whatever you want to call it.

[00:05:33] So he helped them to come to the UK.

[00:05:36] I think at that time, everyone was like, it was either going to be the UK or America.

[00:05:40] So we got them settled over here.

[00:05:42] My father studied for a little while in the UK.

[00:05:45] And then he went into work.

[00:05:47] He worked for the airlines, Air India.

[00:05:51] Connection.

[00:05:51] Connection.

[00:05:52] Yeah.

[00:05:52] So he worked for Air India for several years when he first came over here.

[00:05:58] And then also then his younger brothers.

[00:06:00] So altogether, there's four brothers, three sisters in the Hanvi.

[00:06:05] So his other two younger brothers, one of them came as well.

[00:06:10] And again, he got into the airline business and was working for airlines as well.

[00:06:14] Right.

[00:06:15] So half of the clan peered in half.

[00:06:18] That's it.

[00:06:18] Yeah.

[00:06:19] Not half.

[00:06:19] Well, no, I think the sons first came over.

[00:06:23] So my father, my chacha, the younger chacha Hamid, he was still very young.

[00:06:28] He was quite young when he came.

[00:06:30] But yeah, the boys came over.

[00:06:31] And then of course, later on when one of my poopies got married, then she came over here as well.

[00:06:37] So you call him Dadabha?

[00:06:40] Dadabha.

[00:06:41] Dadabha.

[00:06:41] Dadabha.

[00:06:41] Yeah.

[00:06:42] Dadabha.

[00:06:43] Okay.

[00:06:43] Oh, Dada.

[00:06:44] But yeah, that was always what I'd say, Dadabha.

[00:06:46] What are your first memories of your dadabha?

[00:06:49] Whenever I was there, the smile on his face.

[00:06:52] He was always happy.

[00:06:54] I cannot remember a single time that I heard him get angry or not be smiling.

[00:07:00] He loved all of the children.

[00:07:02] He loved having the children there.

[00:07:03] Any chance we got to go.

[00:07:07] Yeah.

[00:07:07] And I think that was one of the main things that he was always smiling, always happy and jovial.

[00:07:11] Thank you.

[00:07:12] And how often would you go back to him or he would come here?

[00:07:16] Yeah.

[00:07:17] For us, it would be any of the school holidays.

[00:07:19] So you had Christmas holidays, summer holidays.

[00:07:21] Any chance we got, mum, dad would put us on a flight.

[00:07:25] If mum didn't come with us, we'd just get put on a flight and we'd be off to Bombay.

[00:07:30] And we'd be staying with Dadabha and Dadabha.

[00:07:32] So it was a lovely time.

[00:07:34] We used to go there for lovely holidays.

[00:07:37] And for us, it was just a getaway.

[00:07:39] Getaway from the UK.

[00:07:40] The weather, just the whole atmosphere.

[00:07:43] No, because you got the chauffeurs there.

[00:07:47] Yes.

[00:07:47] Of course, living in the UK, you have to go by bus.

[00:07:51] You have to go by bus.

[00:07:52] Bombay went there.

[00:07:54] You had a driver there.

[00:07:55] You needed to go somewhere.

[00:07:57] You just told the driver,

[00:07:58] here we go, here we go.

[00:07:59] And they looked after us.

[00:08:02] Like the old people, you know that

[00:08:04] the people who have been working with,

[00:08:07] they looked after us.

[00:08:09] So we had no problems.

[00:08:10] Anywhere we wanted to go, off we went.

[00:08:12] And did you have any play with him?

[00:08:15] Because we know that,

[00:08:16] I'm trying to show another set of beautiful pictures.

[00:08:20] We know that Raki Sahib was very fond of badminton.

[00:08:23] He liked himself.

[00:08:24] I think he used to wake up at 5.30.

[00:08:28] Yeah.

[00:08:29] Well, his normal routine wouldn't be,

[00:08:31] because he was a very religious person.

[00:08:32] So he'd be up for Fajr Namaz at 5, 5.30,

[00:08:36] whatever it was at that time in the moment.

[00:08:38] And then he would do his Riyadh.

[00:08:40] He had a very strict routine.

[00:08:43] So whatever it was,

[00:08:44] 3-4 hours of Riyadh.

[00:08:47] And then yeah, whenever he got the chance,

[00:08:49] then he would, yeah,

[00:08:50] if he had the chance and he didn't have recordings,

[00:08:52] whatever, then he'd love to play his badminton.

[00:08:55] And any particular person or club you'd play with?

[00:08:59] Not that I know of.

[00:09:00] He just, whoever was available to play.

[00:09:03] Anyone would beat him or he would beat anyone?

[00:09:05] Oh, I don't know.

[00:09:06] I don't think he was a very competitive person.

[00:09:08] I think he enjoyed playing whatever the games he enjoyed.

[00:09:13] So like you said, badminton he was very fond of.

[00:09:16] He played carom a lot that I remember at home.

[00:09:19] And Patan, yes.

[00:09:23] When it was season in Patan,

[00:09:25] in Mumbai,

[00:09:26] well, in India,

[00:09:27] but in Mumbai,

[00:09:28] when it was season,

[00:09:29] you'd see everywhere.

[00:09:30] And at that time,

[00:09:31] we would go to the terrace.

[00:09:33] And of course,

[00:09:34] you'd be fine Patan.

[00:09:35] And I was lucky enough to help.

[00:09:37] Yeah?

[00:09:38] So what were the instructions

[00:09:39] for Patan Bazi?

[00:09:41] What did you tell us?

[00:09:43] We just had to put the kite in the mirror.

[00:09:46] You'd be fine.

[00:09:47] You'd be fine.

[00:09:48] You'd be fine.

[00:09:49] You'd be fine.

[00:09:49] And wind, unwind.

[00:09:51] And then just help with that.

[00:09:52] So my dad was there at that time as well.

[00:09:55] And they'd be teaching how to balance the kite.

[00:09:58] How to play it.

[00:10:00] So was there any competitor there?

[00:10:03] You said in the bandwinton he never used to play to compete.

[00:10:06] So, yes.

[00:10:09] Dadabha had a distinctive,

[00:10:11] he would always have a black Patan.

[00:10:13] Okay.

[00:10:14] And in the local,

[00:10:15] where we were in Bandra,

[00:10:16] not very far from the house,

[00:10:18] Bandha Deh Saab used to live quite close by.

[00:10:21] And when Patan Bazi started to play,

[00:10:24] you'd see lots of different kites around.

[00:10:26] And one would be Bandha Deh Saab.

[00:10:28] So one goes,

[00:10:29] Rasi Saab's kite,

[00:10:30] then we must have Bandha Deh Saab.

[00:10:31] Now that gets me interested.

[00:10:33] So the story is that Bandha Deh Saab managed to cut Lada's patan.

[00:10:38] He cut Lada's patan.

[00:10:40] Okay.

[00:10:40] So when they met,

[00:10:42] and then Lada was spoke to him,

[00:10:44] he said,

[00:10:45] You've cut the patan.

[00:10:46] And he said that

[00:10:48] We won in the patan,

[00:10:50] but you won in the ganyan.

[00:10:51] Bandha Deh Saab said that

[00:10:53] that patan I might have,

[00:10:55] just for the translation say,

[00:10:57] translated for your...

[00:10:58] So in the kite flying,

[00:11:00] Bandha Deh Saab said,

[00:11:02] maybe I am the boss,

[00:11:03] but in the singing side,

[00:11:05] you're the number one.

[00:11:06] And there are not many people who said that.

[00:11:08] That's right.

[00:11:08] So that is the...

[00:11:09] In Karam,

[00:11:10] did you guys ever play together?

[00:11:12] We would play a little.

[00:11:13] I mean, at that time,

[00:11:14] I was young,

[00:11:14] so you don't have the skill to play.

[00:11:16] To play.

[00:11:16] Yeah. But we learned.

[00:11:19] And one of the things when dad,

[00:11:21] and one mom and dad came here,

[00:11:22] they actually had a Karam board from India,

[00:11:25] and we still have the same Karam board still there.

[00:11:28] Yeah.

[00:11:29] But any family gatherings,

[00:11:30] we have that Karam board still.

[00:11:31] I have it at my house now.

[00:11:33] And we still...

[00:11:34] So, same Karam board.

[00:11:35] I'm sure.

[00:11:36] Or would he be beaten by someone?

[00:11:40] Yeah.

[00:11:42] But I don't think...

[00:11:42] Like I said,

[00:11:43] I don't think he was such a competitive person.

[00:11:45] He was a very humble, fired person.

[00:11:47] Whoever won,

[00:11:48] I think he played it for the sake of playing.

[00:11:50] I'd enjoy it.

[00:11:50] So this has been the most beautiful journeys for me

[00:11:54] to do an interview.

[00:11:56] Because I always research.

[00:11:59] I go and meet the people I came to meet you.

[00:12:02] Can I please say,

[00:12:03] I can see you, Aaman Nawazi?

[00:12:05] Yes.

[00:12:06] And this is all the food that he had.

[00:12:10] And when I came to meet him,

[00:12:11] I came upon our estate for about five, six.

[00:12:14] The year took me for having some dinner.

[00:12:17] He said,

[00:12:18] Aaman Nawazi.

[00:12:20] Hospitality.

[00:12:20] But if we were having Raffi Saab here,

[00:12:23] for example,

[00:12:25] instead of all these ungrisly things,

[00:12:27] what would he have?

[00:12:28] I think his favourite...

[00:12:31] He shouldn't have had it because

[00:12:34] people probably know he was a diabetic.

[00:12:36] He shouldn't have had it,

[00:12:38] but he loved his sweets.

[00:12:39] Oh, sweet.

[00:12:40] Yeah, anything sweet he loved.

[00:12:42] What particular sweet?

[00:12:43] Gulab Jamud.

[00:12:44] He would like.

[00:12:46] And one of the...

[00:12:47] Going on from there,

[00:12:48] just one of the stories,

[00:12:49] when we would be in Bombay,

[00:12:50] all in the house over there.

[00:12:53] So, of course, the kids,

[00:12:54] anything we wanted would be in the fridge.

[00:12:56] Anything sweet, chocolate,

[00:12:58] he would eat it.

[00:12:59] But he would always be where,

[00:13:02] you know, looking...

[00:13:02] If we were eating sweet,

[00:13:05] what would you like?

[00:13:06] But he told me.

[00:13:09] Because he knew that, you know,

[00:13:10] he wasn't supposed to be doing that.

[00:13:12] So in the house, Dati was the boss?

[00:13:14] I think so, yeah.

[00:13:16] Yeah?

[00:13:17] Dada would never...

[00:13:18] Dada Abba.

[00:13:19] Dada Abba would never raise his voice to anybody.

[00:13:23] It was...

[00:13:24] If anything, you'd have to listen.

[00:13:28] Listen it.

[00:13:28] Yeah.

[00:13:29] When he was talking to somebody.

[00:13:30] I think he used to save his voice

[00:13:32] because everyone says that he never...

[00:13:34] I never heard Rabbi Saab speak.

[00:13:37] You know, raise his voice.

[00:13:38] Never.

[00:13:39] Because he had to raise it and send it to the mic.

[00:13:42] Well, I...

[00:13:43] Already he's able to touch that range.

[00:13:45] I always think to myself that it was...

[00:13:47] When he was at home, the switch was off.

[00:13:49] It would be his normal Dada Abba,

[00:13:53] as I would call it.

[00:13:54] But when he went into the studio

[00:13:55] for the recording session,

[00:13:57] that switch was turned on

[00:13:58] and then the voice came out.

[00:14:00] And not only the voice, the actor came out too.

[00:14:02] True, yes.

[00:14:04] He moulded his voice to whoever

[00:14:06] he was going to be singing for.

[00:14:07] Because, as I said,

[00:14:09] when I was researching this,

[00:14:11] it's been the most beautiful journey

[00:14:14] because I've been listening to his songs

[00:14:16] and all the interviews

[00:14:17] and every actor has said

[00:14:19] acting became so easy for them

[00:14:22] because he did half the job on the mic

[00:14:24] from Shami.

[00:14:25] Because he sang for all the leading actors.

[00:14:28] Kulkumar, Shami Kukur, you name it.

[00:14:30] So they were telling you,

[00:14:31] Kumar, but it's been there.

[00:14:31] Mama, it's Shami Kapoor.

[00:14:33] Rishi Kapoor even.

[00:14:35] Tandhir Kapoor even.

[00:14:37] Darminder.

[00:14:38] Darminder, Rajendra Kumar.

[00:14:40] And all of them have said that

[00:14:41] they used to feel it's us singing.

[00:14:45] That's right.

[00:14:46] So at home,

[00:14:49] it seems that, reframe it.

[00:14:52] He was a great actor as well.

[00:14:54] Ugh.

[00:14:55] You got it.

[00:14:56] You got it.

[00:14:56] Well, he actually,

[00:14:57] if you've looked on YouTube,

[00:15:00] he acted in one movie.

[00:15:01] But he sang and he acted in one movie.

[00:15:04] Achah.

[00:15:04] Yeah.

[00:15:05] But I think...

[00:15:06] Then he said it's not right.

[00:15:07] No, no.

[00:15:07] I'll go behind the microphone.

[00:15:09] So, this acting, this music,

[00:15:14] did he bring home?

[00:15:15] What was it like at home?

[00:15:17] No.

[00:15:17] That was the thing.

[00:15:19] I mean, again, like I said,

[00:15:20] I was very young at that time.

[00:15:23] So you didn't see that side of him that,

[00:15:25] you know, we would be lucky if we saw

[00:15:28] any rehearsals or any kind of Ria's going on at home.

[00:15:31] But you never saw any of that,

[00:15:33] that persona of him.

[00:15:35] He was just a dedicated grandfather at home.

[00:15:38] A very quiet family man.

[00:15:41] So how was it like at home?

[00:15:43] Because he would react, Adios.

[00:15:45] And he, because everyone said that he would sleep

[00:15:48] on the song and then come and record it.

[00:15:51] Yeah.

[00:15:51] So what was it like?

[00:15:53] How was it like?

[00:15:54] How was it like?

[00:15:54] It was quiet.

[00:15:57] It was quiet.

[00:15:58] Anyway, you have to enjoy the children.

[00:16:00] But we knew.

[00:16:01] So in the Bangla,

[00:16:03] there was a main hall which had

[00:16:06] two glass sliding doors

[00:16:08] and it had a curtain on the inside.

[00:16:10] So we knew that anytime those doors were closed

[00:16:13] and the curtains were drawn,

[00:16:15] something important was happening in there.

[00:16:17] Be it a meeting, be it Ria's,

[00:16:19] be it some kind of practice or a song.

[00:16:22] So then the children would know

[00:16:23] that you had to be quiet

[00:16:25] and mindful of what was going on in there.

[00:16:27] Other times we would be playing in that hall,

[00:16:29] we'd be running.

[00:16:30] It was a very large hall.

[00:16:32] But within that hall,

[00:16:33] you had all of the memorabilia.

[00:16:36] So his awards were there,

[00:16:37] his records were there.

[00:16:39] There used to be one big glass table

[00:16:42] and inside there,

[00:16:43] there was some of the memorabilia

[00:16:45] inside that as well.

[00:16:46] So it was a real demarcation

[00:16:49] between his work life

[00:16:51] and his home.

[00:16:53] Yeah.

[00:16:53] I wouldn't say he didn't bring it home,

[00:16:56] but yeah,

[00:16:57] if he needed to practice

[00:16:58] or he needed to learn a song,

[00:17:00] then you'd see him sitting,

[00:17:02] gun-gun-a-te-teh,

[00:17:03] trying to get that song

[00:17:04] or the whole,

[00:17:07] how he was going to do that song.

[00:17:10] A lot of people have said that,

[00:17:13] you know,

[00:17:14] he has said,

[00:17:15] you talk about humming,

[00:17:17] that in one of the interviews

[00:17:19] that Suhani Raast Dhalchuki

[00:17:21] was one of his favourite songs.

[00:17:22] Costumable favourites, yeah.

[00:17:23] Would he ever,

[00:17:24] do you remember any humming

[00:17:26] of any particular song

[00:17:27] or would he listen to any person

[00:17:30] you remember him listening to?

[00:17:32] Sorry.

[00:17:32] He was completely,

[00:17:33] yeah, yeah.

[00:17:34] At home it was just,

[00:17:35] unless he had to do something at home

[00:17:37] with regards to a song,

[00:17:39] no.

[00:17:39] No spoke about.

[00:17:41] There is one story that I think

[00:17:42] he had gone to a recording

[00:17:44] and this was the humbleness of him.

[00:17:46] He'd gone to a recording

[00:17:47] to do a song

[00:17:48] and he came home

[00:17:49] and he said to everybody at home,

[00:17:53] you know who I sang the song for today?

[00:17:55] Amita Bacho.

[00:17:57] He's such a great singer,

[00:17:58] he was such a great person

[00:17:59] and he came home humbly

[00:18:01] and he said to my side.

[00:18:02] That's right.

[00:18:03] And actually Amit Ji has a very beautiful story

[00:18:05] on the internet

[00:18:07] and everyone must have seen that

[00:18:09] where how he,

[00:18:10] his show was falling up

[00:18:11] and he went in the plane.

[00:18:14] We've seen the film

[00:18:14] that he said

[00:18:17] please stop the plane

[00:18:18] and they didn't.

[00:18:20] And he came back in San.

[00:18:22] So I think mutual admiration there.

[00:18:24] But I feel that a lot of people

[00:18:27] often say that

[00:18:28] it's a lot of lepotism.

[00:18:31] And people take after the profession

[00:18:34] that you were.

[00:18:35] Yeah.

[00:18:35] Your father or parent isn't.

[00:18:37] He never taught anyone music in the house.

[00:18:40] Never everyone.

[00:18:42] No.

[00:18:42] No.

[00:18:43] Well, from the stories I've been told

[00:18:45] and I've,

[00:18:47] my dad,

[00:18:49] he didn't want his children

[00:18:51] to go into that filmy line

[00:18:53] because he knew number one

[00:18:55] how difficult the industry was.

[00:18:58] The cutthroatness,

[00:18:59] the backbiting

[00:19:00] and the competition that there was.

[00:19:02] So he wanted to push,

[00:19:05] push them away from that.

[00:19:06] He knew how difficult it was.

[00:19:08] But he did say

[00:19:09] that if any of you

[00:19:10] want to go into that line

[00:19:12] to aim to be better than him.

[00:19:14] Oh, that was not possible.

[00:19:16] I'm sorry.

[00:19:17] He's smart, no?

[00:19:17] He was quiet, but really smart.

[00:19:19] Yeah.

[00:19:20] So that's why I think

[00:19:21] that's probably one of the reasons

[00:19:22] that yeah,

[00:19:23] that the sons had come to London

[00:19:25] to pursue their own careers.

[00:19:27] Yes, I see.

[00:19:28] So he was very smart there.

[00:19:29] Because, um,

[00:19:32] his mother,

[00:19:33] oh, was his supporter really

[00:19:35] and then,

[00:19:36] yeah, yeah.

[00:19:36] Father didn't want.

[00:19:38] No, no.

[00:19:38] So, Pardada was

[00:19:40] pretty much

[00:19:41] very against him

[00:19:42] going into this filmy line.

[00:19:44] Again, being from such a religious family,

[00:19:46] he didn't want all this filmy stuff

[00:19:47] and Kana, this, this, this.

[00:19:49] But,

[00:19:49] his brother was, yes,

[00:19:51] he saw the talent that was there.

[00:19:53] He saw the, he heard, you know,

[00:19:54] he knew he had a voice.

[00:19:56] So then he helped him

[00:19:57] and then from Pakistan, from Lahore,

[00:19:59] they came to Bombay.

[00:20:00] And, uh,

[00:20:01] And the journey began,

[00:20:02] which we know that journey of, uh, Shamsun.

[00:20:04] That's all right.

[00:20:05] How he, uh,

[00:20:07] but when he was leaving,

[00:20:09] was your Pardada,

[00:20:10] he,

[00:20:11] he aligned with his wish

[00:20:13] or he still stopped him

[00:20:14] or he gave him some advice?

[00:20:15] He gave him advice

[00:20:16] to say that, um,

[00:20:19] So when,

[00:20:19] this is Rafi Sahib leaving

[00:20:20] and this is his father.

[00:20:21] Yeah.

[00:20:22] So I think basically it was,

[00:20:24] whatever you do in your life,

[00:20:25] always keep your feet counted.

[00:20:28] You know?

[00:20:30] Don't,

[00:20:30] don't be such a big person

[00:20:33] that you forget everything else

[00:20:34] or forget everybody else.

[00:20:35] And I think that's what he did.

[00:20:37] He was very humble,

[00:20:38] um, very charitable.

[00:20:40] And everyone saw that,

[00:20:42] that side of him.

[00:20:43] You, you saw that he was such a quiet person.

[00:20:45] He never, um, openly like you have nowadays,

[00:20:49] his superstar, you know, glitz, glamour, whatever.

[00:20:52] He would just go from home to recording,

[00:20:56] do what he had to do,

[00:20:57] and then come home.

[00:20:58] And there's stories of, um,

[00:21:00] if he was even invited to a party,

[00:21:02] he wasn't very much for going into these,

[00:21:04] and glam parties, this, whatever it was.

[00:21:07] So if he was invited to a party

[00:21:09] or some kind of a function,

[00:21:10] he would get the driver to take him.

[00:21:13] He asked him to drop him off.

[00:21:15] He'd go inside, pay his respects,

[00:21:17] pay his wishes.

[00:21:19] Lefa faddiya and bar.

[00:21:20] Yeah, that's it.

[00:21:21] So his driver, you told me,

[00:21:24] he would ask his driver to just take a turn

[00:21:26] and come back.

[00:21:26] That's it, yeah.

[00:21:27] He was pretty much, yeah.

[00:21:28] He wouldn't, it not, he wouldn't be there for the,

[00:21:30] you know, Lumbi party,

[00:21:31] and this, that, whatever.

[00:21:33] He would just go there to pay his respects

[00:21:36] and show that he's been there.

[00:21:38] And that was it.

[00:21:39] Yeah, the whole,

[00:21:39] because he had to get up at 5.30 in the parade, right?

[00:21:43] Yeah, that's true as all, yeah.

[00:21:44] How would you, if you party,

[00:21:45] you can do that?

[00:21:46] Yeah.

[00:21:48] It's just discipline as well, isn't it?

[00:21:50] So, did, I mean, no one in your family ever go and say,

[00:21:55] Abba, I want to learn the song or I want to,

[00:21:58] so no one even expressed that?

[00:22:00] Not really.

[00:22:01] I think my youngest chacha, Shahid, who's in Bombay store,

[00:22:05] he tried, he done it a little bit,

[00:22:08] but not to that extent, not to that extent.

[00:22:10] It is pretty hard for the children.

[00:22:12] I think so.

[00:22:13] You still carry that legacy, isn't it?

[00:22:15] And you don't carry, you carry it with care.

[00:22:17] Yeah.

[00:22:18] You have to.

[00:22:18] That's how we, yes.

[00:22:19] So, when you go here in, let's say there are 100 years of Rafi Saab,

[00:22:24] which we are celebrating and that's why we are doing Man Behind the Music.

[00:22:29] So, when you go elsewhere and you even want to sing,

[00:22:34] are you able to sing?

[00:22:36] Thinking of Grandson?

[00:22:39] It's always going to be the case.

[00:22:40] They hear, you're the grandson Rafi.

[00:22:42] You must be a good singer.

[00:22:44] That's the first question I'm asked, is do you sing?

[00:22:47] That's the first question.

[00:22:48] I have to unfortunately say, I don't.

[00:22:50] Well, I don't, but I tried.

[00:22:53] You started a little bit, but not to less.

[00:22:56] It's just for a little bit of personal enjoyment.

[00:22:58] My pleasure was always listening to the songs.

[00:23:01] But up until a few years ago, I've started to branch out Elizabeth,

[00:23:05] if you want.

[00:23:07] So you've mustered the courage, not?

[00:23:09] Courage, yeah.

[00:23:10] To say, okay, I have this legacy, but so what?

[00:23:13] I can still enjoy the songs.

[00:23:14] I still have a bit of a voice.

[00:23:15] Also, my wife tells me, have a bit of a voice.

[00:23:18] That's very good.

[00:23:19] That's very fabulous.

[00:23:21] So we will listen to you a little bit later on.

[00:23:26] But going through these pictures now,

[00:23:29] another thing you told me he enjoyed was his cars.

[00:23:33] Very much, very much.

[00:23:34] If any chance he got, to be honest with cars,

[00:23:37] he loved the cars, but he didn't drive.

[00:23:39] Ah.

[00:23:40] What was his story behind the cars?

[00:23:43] He just loved the cars, I think.

[00:23:44] Any particular, any...

[00:23:46] No, what...

[00:23:47] Whatever new models that were available there,

[00:23:51] and he liked, he would be looking to buy one or get one.

[00:23:55] And then the driver would take him around.

[00:23:58] There was...

[00:23:59] So the car that he bought at that time was a left-hand drive car.

[00:24:04] Now in Bombay, driving a left-hand drive car is...

[00:24:08] Driving in Bombay is difficult as it is.

[00:24:10] With a left-hand drive car, the driver just wasn't able to...

[00:24:15] Yeah, drive it.

[00:24:16] So...

[00:24:18] Rather than sort of...

[00:24:20] He managed to get someone else to do the driving for him.

[00:24:24] But then because the driver was not doing what he...

[00:24:27] His job, he...

[00:24:28] To keep his livelihood going,

[00:24:30] He then bought him a car, a taxi.

[00:24:34] And then he managed to still make a living.

[00:24:38] So he would distribute half of it outside...

[00:24:42] Would you have...

[00:24:43] Dadi on the other side?

[00:24:45] No, I think she knew...

[00:24:46] He was...

[00:24:49] Just a very charitable person.

[00:24:51] He would never look at what he was taking out of his pocket.

[00:24:54] His hand was going in his pocket.

[00:24:56] Whatever came out, he would...

[00:24:57] He had gone to a recording.

[00:25:01] Again, this is when I must have been very young, but I've heard the story.

[00:25:04] He went to a recording.

[00:25:06] And when he was going there,

[00:25:08] The lift man was there.

[00:25:10] So he chatted.

[00:25:11] They were getting in the lift and he was chatting.

[00:25:13] He asked him how he was.

[00:25:14] And the lift man started explaining that,

[00:25:17] Yes, my daughter is getting married soon.

[00:25:18] And I'm in the process of getting things sorted out.

[00:25:22] So anyway, Dadaba went...

[00:25:23] He'd done the recording.

[00:25:25] And at that time when the recordings were done,

[00:25:27] pretty much it wasn't...

[00:25:28] The director, producer, whoever it was.

[00:25:31] He was given the director,

[00:25:32] and he went to a house.

[00:25:34] And he won't open it.

[00:25:37] Whatever was given,

[00:25:38] that was it.

[00:25:39] He knew.

[00:25:40] So then when he was coming out,

[00:25:44] with my...

[00:25:45] What time?

[00:25:45] My mamu.

[00:25:46] He was like his...

[00:25:49] Zai...

[00:25:50] Zai mamu.

[00:25:51] So his personal assistant, just...

[00:25:53] It was his brother-in-law as well.

[00:25:56] Your daddy, amma's brother,

[00:25:58] also his manager, also your mamu,

[00:26:01] and also his everything.

[00:26:03] Exactly, yeah.

[00:26:04] So when they were coming out,

[00:26:06] he said,

[00:26:07] Well, Lefafa?

[00:26:08] He said,

[00:26:09] Don't worry, we'll...

[00:26:10] So he didn't ask anything else.

[00:26:11] But it transpires that Lefafa,

[00:26:14] when he was going in the lift,

[00:26:15] he'd actually given it to the lift man.

[00:26:18] I can see your eyes right now.

[00:26:23] But yeah, it's just those types of stories.

[00:26:25] And it transpires that we, as a family,

[00:26:29] didn't know how charitable he was

[00:26:31] until he passed away.

[00:26:33] Because people then,

[00:26:35] at that time, they were getting

[00:26:36] money orders, checks, whatever,

[00:26:38] however it was distributed.

[00:26:40] But then when he passed away,

[00:26:43] of course these things stopped.

[00:26:44] You know, he had a secretary

[00:26:47] that would help him sort all these things out.

[00:26:48] But when he passed away, all these things stopped.

[00:26:50] And then suddenly one or two people,

[00:26:53] a person had got in touch,

[00:26:55] and came with the house and said,

[00:26:59] this money didn't come,

[00:27:00] this money didn't come.

[00:27:01] And then we realised, okay, you know,

[00:27:03] he was sending people these charitable monies.

[00:27:06] But nobody really knew at all.

[00:27:10] He was out on a walk one day with a friend,

[00:27:14] and someone approached him.

[00:27:17] So he had a hand in his pocket

[00:27:18] and gave him the money.

[00:27:19] And then his friend who was walking with him,

[00:27:22] he said,

[00:27:23] Ranfri Sahib,

[00:27:25] how much money did he give?

[00:27:27] And he said,

[00:27:28] if God has given me whatever.

[00:27:31] Without something.

[00:27:34] Yeah, that's how charitable he was.

[00:27:37] We do get emotional.

[00:27:39] There were fond memories for me at that time.

[00:27:42] Spend short time,

[00:27:44] but you carry that in your heart.

[00:27:45] Yeah.

[00:27:46] The point is,

[00:27:47] do people expect you to be that charitable as well?

[00:27:51] We try, we try as much as we can.

[00:27:54] I think too.

[00:27:54] When we say,

[00:27:55] come in your ear, six minutes there,

[00:27:57] you know what,

[00:27:57] can we have that spit?

[00:27:59] We push, rapi sa,

[00:28:00] for my...

[00:28:03] Yeah, so...

[00:28:03] I have to make you laugh, that's fine.

[00:28:06] You told me about an incident of him getting a car from here.

[00:28:09] Yes.

[00:28:10] Yes.

[00:28:11] So, any chance that he used to get...

[00:28:13] When he travelled to England,

[00:28:15] if he saw a new model or something,

[00:28:17] he was interested.

[00:28:18] Yeah, he would try and get it sorted out.

[00:28:21] So it would fit back.

[00:28:22] So at that time,

[00:28:23] there was a...

[00:28:25] the Audi 100.

[00:28:27] There was a new model of an Audi 100.

[00:28:29] So he got this ship to India.

[00:28:31] And it was a blue colour.

[00:28:34] I remember it was distinctive,

[00:28:35] like a sort of dark sky blue colour.

[00:28:38] We were going for my chacha's wedding.

[00:28:42] We're driving to Indore.

[00:28:44] The majority of the family,

[00:28:45] we were all in the bus.

[00:28:47] My dada, daddy, chacha, mamu,

[00:28:50] they were in the Audi.

[00:28:52] Now, kids being kids,

[00:28:54] we were in the bus.

[00:28:55] And you used to get these...

[00:28:57] Yeah, what do you mean?

[00:28:59] In tepa, you'd throw it on the floor and then...

[00:29:01] So we were sitting on the bus

[00:29:03] and the kids were...

[00:29:06] And what happened was,

[00:29:07] I didn't look

[00:29:08] and as the car was going past,

[00:29:10] my...

[00:29:10] It went onto the car.

[00:29:13] Oh, that's great, sir.

[00:29:14] That's it.

[00:29:15] That's it.

[00:29:17] So we stopped somewhere

[00:29:19] to have something to eat

[00:29:20] and I said,

[00:29:20] Oh, that's it.

[00:29:21] I'm going to get firing from daddy.

[00:29:23] I'm going to get this.

[00:29:24] But daddy quietly said,

[00:29:25] You should do it with your hand.

[00:29:26] Do it with your hand.

[00:29:27] So we did it.

[00:29:28] That was it.

[00:29:29] You know, it wasn't like...

[00:29:31] Had it been me,

[00:29:33] I...

[00:29:35] So...

[00:29:36] With that...

[00:29:37] And that was how he was.

[00:29:40] Never any kind of anger...

[00:29:43] But how many disciplined kids did?

[00:29:46] I think daddy was...

[00:29:48] I think daddy was...

[00:29:48] Yeah, daddy.

[00:29:48] She was the bad...

[00:29:49] Very smart.

[00:29:50] Daddy would...

[00:29:51] I think you'd hear daddy's voice

[00:29:52] more in the house than that was.

[00:29:54] But we knew it.

[00:29:55] I mean, again, daddy wasn't...

[00:29:57] She wasn't so...

[00:29:59] Gusewali.

[00:30:00] But she...

[00:30:02] He spoiled you?

[00:30:03] With gifts?

[00:30:05] Yeah.

[00:30:05] Yeah, I think so.

[00:30:06] When we were little,

[00:30:07] we'd get toys and things.

[00:30:09] You know,

[00:30:09] if he was coming from anywhere,

[00:30:11] if he was around the world,

[00:30:12] if he'd gone on some kind of a...

[00:30:14] show or trip,

[00:30:15] whatever it was,

[00:30:16] we'd get gifts and things.

[00:30:17] I got a story now to tell you.

[00:30:19] Okay.

[00:30:20] Which is that...

[00:30:21] My camera person is also crying.

[00:30:26] And somehow I never knew that

[00:30:28] he had met the first tour

[00:30:30] that he came to Birmingham.

[00:30:31] Okay.

[00:30:32] I'm told by him.

[00:30:35] And he doesn't want to come

[00:30:36] in front of camera.

[00:30:37] It's not that I don't want him

[00:30:38] to come in front of the camera.

[00:30:39] I'm dead.

[00:30:39] So,

[00:30:41] the show was not full.

[00:30:43] Yeah.

[00:30:43] It was...

[00:30:44] And Rafi Sahab happened to be

[00:30:46] one person

[00:30:47] who actually brought Hindi music

[00:30:48] and this whole concept

[00:30:50] of shows abroad.

[00:30:51] Yeah.

[00:30:53] To reality.

[00:30:54] And it was a show in Birmingham

[00:30:55] and not Town Hall.

[00:30:57] And not many people turned up

[00:30:59] because it was an afternoon thing.

[00:31:01] or whatever it was.

[00:31:03] And...

[00:31:04] Mohinder Ji told me,

[00:31:05] there were 30 people there.

[00:31:07] And when he went on the stage,

[00:31:09] he asked how many people

[00:31:11] have paid for this show.

[00:31:13] And only five, six people

[00:31:14] raised their hands.

[00:31:17] And he said,

[00:31:19] your money will be returned to you.

[00:31:21] Yeah.

[00:31:21] I can imagine.

[00:31:22] Yeah.

[00:31:23] I can imagine.

[00:31:23] Exactly that.

[00:31:25] My God.

[00:31:26] Yeah.

[00:31:28] With that kind of legacy,

[00:31:30] my show would definitely have.

[00:31:31] I know.

[00:31:34] Anyhow.

[00:31:35] Oh, this...

[00:31:36] I love this piece,

[00:31:38] too picture.

[00:31:39] See?

[00:31:40] Of him relaxing at home.

[00:31:42] That's how...

[00:31:42] that's how I would remember Dada.

[00:31:44] Oh, this is how you remember Dada.

[00:31:45] Yeah.

[00:31:46] And then this is getting ready for...

[00:31:48] Oh yeah.

[00:31:48] So what was his relaxation?

[00:31:51] Well, at the house,

[00:31:52] at the bangla,

[00:31:53] we had like a veranda courtyard area

[00:31:56] at the back of the house.

[00:31:57] So anytime he wasn't busy

[00:32:00] with recordings and like this,

[00:32:02] he would be quietly sitting there.

[00:32:05] Just reminiscing.

[00:32:07] Time pass, reading,

[00:32:08] reading paper,

[00:32:09] listening to...

[00:32:10] I have a very...

[00:32:12] a photographer,

[00:32:13] he's just listening to a radio.

[00:32:15] But yeah, he just used to enjoy

[00:32:17] the time there.

[00:32:19] We...

[00:32:20] Especially for myself,

[00:32:22] when I was there,

[00:32:23] I didn't realize,

[00:32:24] at that age,

[00:32:25] I didn't realize

[00:32:25] what a...

[00:32:27] superstar,

[00:32:29] a men's person he was.

[00:32:31] We used to go out

[00:32:35] for drives

[00:32:35] and we'd see crowds

[00:32:37] coming to the car

[00:32:39] and...

[00:32:40] sorry, just going back

[00:32:40] with regards to the car.

[00:32:41] At that time,

[00:32:42] he had one car over there,

[00:32:44] which everyone has a Fiat in Bombay.

[00:32:47] At that time.

[00:32:47] At that time.

[00:32:48] But his Fiat was distinctive

[00:32:50] because it was bright yellow

[00:32:51] and it had one stripe.

[00:32:53] Yeah, it has one stripe

[00:32:55] going from the front to the back.

[00:32:56] So everybody knew that

[00:32:57] if this car was around,

[00:32:59] it was the other bus car.

[00:33:01] So...

[00:33:02] And we used to wonder that,

[00:33:03] you know,

[00:33:03] the children were driving around

[00:33:05] and all these crowds

[00:33:06] are coming off,

[00:33:07] thinking what's happening,

[00:33:08] what's happening.

[00:33:09] And then slowly...

[00:33:10] They knew it was Rafi Sahab's car.

[00:33:12] And you are going for ice cream

[00:33:13] in Puchkar Nereka.

[00:33:15] That was one of the things, yes.

[00:33:17] So, when Dadabha wasn't with us,

[00:33:19] of course,

[00:33:19] the kids would say,

[00:33:20] yeah, chalo, we need to go

[00:33:21] go get this or do this.

[00:33:23] So we'd ask the driver.

[00:33:24] And we'd be back in the back,

[00:33:26] music would be on a little bit,

[00:33:28] window would be down a little.

[00:33:29] And you'd see all these people

[00:33:30] still looking,

[00:33:31] that's Rafi Sahab's car,

[00:33:32] that's Rafi Sahab's car again.

[00:33:34] I'd like to say yes,

[00:33:35] but maybe...

[00:33:37] Maybe not.

[00:33:37] Who said that in the family?

[00:33:39] You have someone who

[00:33:40] had the courage to...

[00:33:42] Yeah, yes.

[00:33:44] So, when I got married,

[00:33:47] there is a...

[00:33:48] quite a funny story.

[00:33:49] So when I got married,

[00:33:50] from Bombay,

[00:33:51] we all went,

[00:33:52] the whole family went by bus

[00:33:54] to Wapi,

[00:33:55] where my wife is from.

[00:33:57] And the wedding ceremony

[00:33:58] took place there.

[00:33:59] So we had our nikah,

[00:34:00] and the reception was over there.

[00:34:02] The next day,

[00:34:03] we were all coming back to Bombay

[00:34:04] to have the walima

[00:34:07] in Bombay.

[00:34:08] So now,

[00:34:10] everyone was in the bus,

[00:34:11] the whole family,

[00:34:12] the whole Rafi family

[00:34:13] was in the bus,

[00:34:14] and our wife.

[00:34:17] Newly married?

[00:34:18] Newly married.

[00:34:19] Woman?

[00:34:19] Yes.

[00:34:20] Of?

[00:34:22] Of...

[00:34:22] Yeah, you but of what age?

[00:34:24] Oh, at that time,

[00:34:26] I was what, 30,

[00:34:27] she was 25.

[00:34:28] Oh.

[00:34:28] Yeah.

[00:34:30] So,

[00:34:31] when we were sitting on the bus,

[00:34:33] getting ready,

[00:34:33] well, we'd actually started,

[00:34:34] we'd already started the journey.

[00:34:36] But then everyone,

[00:34:37] of course,

[00:34:37] is asking questions.

[00:34:39] So one of the main questions,

[00:34:41] they said,

[00:34:41] we asked this to all the bahu's,

[00:34:43] who is your favourite singer?

[00:34:46] So this is this young,

[00:34:48] first time,

[00:34:50] introducing to the family

[00:34:51] in such a big way.

[00:34:53] What is her answer?

[00:34:54] Shall I let her answer?

[00:34:56] Go on,

[00:34:57] should we get the bahu?

[00:34:58] Yeah, why not?

[00:34:59] Come on, let's get the bahu.

[00:35:00] Please.

[00:35:02] Go on,

[00:35:03] this is the bahu,

[00:35:04] sitting in that bus.

[00:35:06] This is Savalgit Mabat.

[00:35:08] And they run this beautifully well kitchen.

[00:35:11] So she was sitting in the bus,

[00:35:12] she's asked the question by Repi Saab's family,

[00:35:17] who is your favourite singer?

[00:35:18] Because that's a customary question.

[00:35:21] I was actually told by Rizwan Chachi,

[00:35:25] that this is the question asked to all the new bahu's coming into the,

[00:35:31] becoming part of the family.

[00:35:33] And I was asked,

[00:35:34] who is your favourite singer?

[00:35:36] Now,

[00:35:37] I didn't know how do I address him.

[00:35:39] Do I address him as Muhammad Rafi,

[00:35:42] or do I address him as,

[00:35:44] hmm?

[00:35:44] Hmm?

[00:35:45] Oh, I address him as Dada bus.

[00:35:48] So I didn't know.

[00:35:49] I panicked.

[00:35:50] And because I panicked,

[00:35:52] I just said,

[00:35:53] Kishore Kumar.

[00:35:57] And at that time,

[00:35:58] I think everyone said,

[00:35:59] stop the bus.

[00:36:01] Everyone.

[00:36:02] Everyone.

[00:36:02] I don't know how to get out of the bus.

[00:36:05] We can't want to get out of the bus.

[00:36:08] But she said,

[00:36:09] yeah.

[00:36:11] I have been really welcomed into the family.

[00:36:14] No, but you,

[00:36:14] you don't know who is.

[00:36:15] No, no, no.

[00:36:17] No, I wouldn't let her go in there.

[00:36:18] I wouldn't let her go in there.

[00:36:21] Yeah.

[00:36:22] But,

[00:36:24] but even to this day now,

[00:36:25] she still,

[00:36:26] she still enjoys.

[00:36:27] I still like Kishore Kumar.

[00:36:29] She still loves Kishore Kumar.

[00:36:30] Yeah.

[00:36:30] And Kishore Kumar's playback is a refugee.

[00:36:34] Yeah.

[00:36:35] And actually,

[00:36:36] you know,

[00:36:36] sometimes when the,

[00:36:38] there's one six and,

[00:36:39] sometimes we sort of,

[00:36:40] I join or we do it together.

[00:36:42] And I'll say,

[00:36:44] should we do Kishore Kumar?

[00:36:45] Who is that?

[00:36:48] Yeah.

[00:36:49] I think to this,

[00:36:49] so far,

[00:36:50] since I started my singing career,

[00:36:52] whatever it sounds,

[00:36:53] I've just been singing that,

[00:36:54] there's songs.

[00:36:55] I've not sung any other songs.

[00:36:57] Because I like this.

[00:36:57] Do you have to listen to Kishore Kumar ji on the slide?

[00:37:01] No, no, no.

[00:37:02] I,

[00:37:03] she doesn't open it.

[00:37:04] I took it.

[00:37:05] I said,

[00:37:06] these are good numbers.

[00:37:07] You know,

[00:37:07] you can listen to it.

[00:37:08] because he's just okay.

[00:37:10] So in the entire family,

[00:37:11] you have been accepted now.

[00:37:13] Yes, of course.

[00:37:14] Of course.

[00:37:16] I actually wish that,

[00:37:18] when I joined the family,

[00:37:20] he was still alive.

[00:37:21] And I,

[00:37:22] you know,

[00:37:22] I would have had time to spend with him.

[00:37:25] I would have actually loved to be,

[00:37:27] when he was there as well.

[00:37:29] Which I really,

[00:37:30] really miss.

[00:37:30] Because,

[00:37:31] apart from him,

[00:37:33] I've met everyone,

[00:37:34] even daddy,

[00:37:36] everyone else.

[00:37:38] Apart from Hamish.

[00:37:40] About Hamish.

[00:37:41] So my Hamish,

[00:37:42] I passed away.

[00:37:43] We would have planned you into a Rafi-sa band.

[00:37:48] But you,

[00:37:49] you have a very interesting meeting story,

[00:37:53] isn't it?

[00:37:54] Arranged?

[00:37:55] Well, yeah.

[00:37:56] It was,

[00:37:57] it was an arranged marriage.

[00:37:59] My mommy,

[00:38:00] who was in Bombay,

[00:38:01] she knew Subakit's family very well.

[00:38:05] And at that time,

[00:38:07] my mom and my sister had gone to Bombay,

[00:38:09] to start the ball rolling as it were,

[00:38:12] to find someone for me.

[00:38:13] And now,

[00:38:14] they went,

[00:38:15] they,

[00:38:16] they went to visit.

[00:38:17] And I think,

[00:38:19] you want to tell?

[00:38:19] We just arranged love at first sight.

[00:38:21] They were, yeah.

[00:38:22] So, initially it was,

[00:38:24] mom,

[00:38:25] Vizwan's mom and,

[00:38:26] my sister,

[00:38:27] they came over.

[00:38:28] And I didn't know actually,

[00:38:29] they came to see me.

[00:38:31] So,

[00:38:32] it was very casual.

[00:38:34] But later,

[00:38:36] who,

[00:38:36] the,

[00:38:37] Swans photo and everything.

[00:38:39] I think,

[00:38:40] we said,

[00:38:40] okay,

[00:38:41] we'll meet up.

[00:38:41] He then came to Bombay,

[00:38:44] because that's where I'm from.

[00:38:46] And,

[00:38:47] it was actually love at first sight.

[00:38:49] I think so.

[00:38:50] It was...

[00:38:52] It's true,

[00:38:53] yeah.

[00:38:53] it had to be love at first sight,

[00:38:55] otherwise,

[00:38:56] husband and Mari talking together,

[00:38:58] you know,

[00:38:58] creating big business,

[00:38:59] that's not possible.

[00:39:00] But,

[00:39:00] that's the thing.

[00:39:01] And Rafi Ji had nothing to do with it.

[00:39:03] It was...

[00:39:04] He's one...

[00:39:05] Yeah.

[00:39:06] His love story has come to be.

[00:39:07] But how was the love story with Tadi Umma and...

[00:39:11] Would he...

[00:39:13] The man who sang this romantic song.

[00:39:17] I know,

[00:39:18] I never saw anything like that at first sight.

[00:39:20] He was,

[00:39:20] he was very loving,

[00:39:21] yes.

[00:39:22] You know,

[00:39:23] birthdays,

[00:39:24] this, this, this,

[00:39:25] the flowers would be there,

[00:39:26] the romance would be there.

[00:39:28] But there was not,

[00:39:29] not,

[00:39:30] not,

[00:39:30] how he was singing in the movies,

[00:39:32] that kind of romance was not there.

[00:39:34] It was...

[00:39:34] So how,

[00:39:34] how would it show the affection?

[00:39:36] How would,

[00:39:37] that affection be shown?

[00:39:39] To, to,

[00:39:41] to...

[00:39:42] I think,

[00:39:43] at that time,

[00:39:44] you know,

[00:39:44] adults wouldn't show that type of...

[00:39:46] I like...

[00:39:47] The affection is,

[00:39:49] you don't eat the girl,

[00:39:49] you don't eat the girl.

[00:39:52] That's,

[00:39:53] that,

[00:39:53] that was...

[00:39:54] That's a good thing,

[00:39:55] of course.

[00:39:56] That was the thing at that time.

[00:39:58] So,

[00:39:59] it was a hand in hand,

[00:40:00] arms, this, this, this, this.

[00:40:02] But yeah,

[00:40:02] you could see the affection there.

[00:40:04] You saw the love.

[00:40:05] Yeah, it is,

[00:40:05] it is.

[00:40:06] Her, her,

[00:40:07] her caring for him,

[00:40:08] you know,

[00:40:09] she knew,

[00:40:09] that his,

[00:40:10] his health was like that.

[00:40:12] His diabetes,

[00:40:13] whatever.

[00:40:14] So she'd always been,

[00:40:15] I wouldn't say that,

[00:40:16] but,

[00:40:17] she's a good one.

[00:40:18] And that is affection.

[00:40:20] That's it.

[00:40:20] I think that is when the,

[00:40:21] that's true.

[00:40:22] Compassion comes.

[00:40:23] And,

[00:40:24] oh, let me go through that picture.

[00:40:26] Sorry.

[00:40:27] What is this one?

[00:40:28] So that's,

[00:40:29] my two chachas,

[00:40:31] younger chachas.

[00:40:32] Oh, so here,

[00:40:32] they are singing.

[00:40:33] Well,

[00:40:34] I think, yeah,

[00:40:34] maybe doing something,

[00:40:35] but yeah.

[00:40:37] So that is,

[00:40:38] Khalid and Hamid Chacha.

[00:40:40] Okay.

[00:40:40] Yeah.

[00:40:41] And they are,

[00:40:43] in the studio.

[00:40:44] Yeah,

[00:40:44] that would have been at the house in the,

[00:40:47] this is in the,

[00:40:47] the main hall.

[00:40:49] And yeah,

[00:40:49] I suppose,

[00:40:50] trying to sing something,

[00:40:52] or he's trying to,

[00:40:52] trying to get them to sing something.

[00:40:54] But yeah,

[00:40:54] love the picture.

[00:40:56] Ah,

[00:40:56] and,

[00:40:57] we've been told by so many,

[00:40:59] I've heard so many,

[00:41:02] interviews where he said that,

[00:41:04] there was one song,

[00:41:05] Babu ki Duaayan Leti Jaap.

[00:41:06] Yes.

[00:41:07] And ki aankhe bharai jase,

[00:41:08] abhi hum sab ki bharai jase.

[00:41:11] Yes.

[00:41:11] it was,

[00:41:13] engagement that they had done of,

[00:41:15] one of this daughter.

[00:41:17] Yes, yeah, yeah.

[00:41:17] So, my youngest Pupuy,

[00:41:19] Yasmin Pupuy.

[00:41:20] So,

[00:41:20] it was her,

[00:41:23] nikah,

[00:41:23] the wedding was going to happen.

[00:41:25] And then just a few days before,

[00:41:27] he'd actually,

[00:41:28] sung this song as well.

[00:41:30] Ah,

[00:41:30] and this is Yasmin.

[00:41:32] This is what I got that we were,

[00:41:34] I pointed to,

[00:41:35] so this is the picture.

[00:41:36] And this,

[00:41:36] then this,

[00:41:37] this is the,

[00:41:39] so this is my,

[00:41:39] younger chacha Hamid.

[00:41:41] So this was at his wedding.

[00:41:42] And,

[00:41:43] this is all the family.

[00:41:44] So,

[00:41:45] my youngest Pupuy,

[00:41:46] Yasmin.

[00:41:47] Yasmin Pupuy is the one,

[00:41:49] who,

[00:41:50] who,

[00:41:51] Yes, yeah.

[00:41:53] But in the picture here,

[00:41:55] this is my,

[00:41:56] Hamid Chacha,

[00:41:57] and Fauziya Chachit,

[00:41:58] whose wedding it was.

[00:41:59] So this is the youngest Chacha Shahid.

[00:42:01] And so he,

[00:42:02] he's,

[00:42:03] he wasn't married there,

[00:42:04] and she wasn't married.

[00:42:05] And then,

[00:42:07] Khali Chacha,

[00:42:09] and Dolly Chachi.

[00:42:10] And then this is my dad,

[00:42:11] and my mum,

[00:42:12] Said and Zakia.

[00:42:13] And then Nasreen Pupuy,

[00:42:15] and Maraj Mamu.

[00:42:17] And then,

[00:42:18] Parin Pupuy,

[00:42:19] and Afta Kuppan.

[00:42:20] And of course,

[00:42:20] Dada and Ladi.

[00:42:22] Of course.

[00:42:23] And this is the,

[00:42:23] last wedding here?

[00:42:25] No, no, no.

[00:42:26] He attended Yasmin Pupuy's.

[00:42:28] He was there for Yasmin Pupuy's wedding.

[00:42:29] And then?

[00:42:30] That's it.

[00:42:31] So,

[00:42:32] such a big family.

[00:42:34] Yeah, well,

[00:42:35] he'd help.

[00:42:35] Cast everybody.

[00:42:36] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:42:37] I mean,

[00:42:37] like I said,

[00:42:38] he got the sons settled.

[00:42:41] He'd help and do whatever he had to do.

[00:42:43] I suppose,

[00:42:43] you know,

[00:42:44] whatever he could do to help them,

[00:42:46] he would do.

[00:42:47] So...

[00:42:48] And for a man who came with nothing?

[00:42:50] Very true.

[00:42:52] He always said,

[00:42:53] whatever he had,

[00:42:54] was given by Allah.

[00:42:55] Anything and everything was given by Allah.

[00:42:59] His voice,

[00:43:00] whatever he got.

[00:43:01] Many years ago,

[00:43:02] again.

[00:43:03] He was with Narshaad Sahib,

[00:43:06] but he wasn't the main singer.

[00:43:08] He was actually like a chorus,

[00:43:10] in the chorus,

[00:43:11] chorus singer.

[00:43:12] So,

[00:43:13] for some reason,

[00:43:14] the song or the...

[00:43:16] had to be cancelled.

[00:43:17] And now Dada had come there

[00:43:19] to sing at this.

[00:43:21] And he,

[00:43:22] once everyone had slowly gone and finished,

[00:43:24] he was still waiting there.

[00:43:26] And he,

[00:43:28] Narshaad Sahib then approached him and said,

[00:43:30] I'll be there.

[00:43:31] I'll be there waiting.

[00:43:32] So,

[00:43:33] he said,

[00:43:33] I used my last rupiah

[00:43:35] to come to the recording.

[00:43:37] And,

[00:43:39] I'm waiting to see whatever else I can do.

[00:43:41] So then Narshaad Sahib,

[00:43:42] actually gave him,

[00:43:44] a rupiah,

[00:43:45] to then make his way home.

[00:43:47] But he didn't spend that.

[00:43:48] He kept it in his pocket,

[00:43:49] and he walked home.

[00:43:54] It is hard to carry this thing.

[00:43:56] What do you,

[00:43:57] what do you imbibe of that in your life?

[00:44:02] I think,

[00:44:03] I,

[00:44:04] I always say that,

[00:44:05] people have asked me,

[00:44:07] oh, I want to sing like Rafi Sahib.

[00:44:10] I want to,

[00:44:11] you know,

[00:44:12] this is my aim.

[00:44:13] I want to sing like Rafi Sahib.

[00:44:14] I want to be like Rafi Sahib.

[00:44:15] But I said,

[00:44:16] I explained to him,

[00:44:17] no one can be like Rafi Sahib,

[00:44:20] singing wise.

[00:44:20] He was unique.

[00:44:22] There's not going to be anybody else.

[00:44:23] But,

[00:44:24] the man that he was,

[00:44:26] his personality,

[00:44:27] his charity,

[00:44:28] I say be like that.

[00:44:30] So,

[00:44:31] be humble.

[00:44:33] Have your feet on the ground.

[00:44:35] You know,

[00:44:35] respect others.

[00:44:37] Something that his father taught you.

[00:44:40] That's right.

[00:44:40] You still carry that in your legacy.

[00:44:43] That's right.

[00:44:43] And so,

[00:44:44] in a minute,

[00:44:44] I think you've managed to,

[00:44:46] you're coming around to singing is because of,

[00:44:50] your wife is doing.

[00:44:52] Yeah,

[00:44:53] a little bit of pressure from there.

[00:44:54] I have,

[00:44:54] I have very good friends who have encouraged me as well.

[00:44:58] So,

[00:45:00] I was originally born and brought up in West London.

[00:45:03] If people know the UK,

[00:45:06] a small town called Bedfont,

[00:45:09] very close to Heathrow Airport.

[00:45:11] So,

[00:45:11] my childhood,

[00:45:13] was growing up there.

[00:45:15] But,

[00:45:16] probably about,

[00:45:17] maybe,

[00:45:18] six years,

[00:45:19] seven years ago,

[00:45:20] we moved,

[00:45:20] with business,

[00:45:21] we moved to the east of London.

[00:45:23] And this is the,

[00:45:24] this is the picture of your Bedfont.

[00:45:26] That's right.

[00:45:26] Yes.

[00:45:27] And there's one more.

[00:45:28] Oh,

[00:45:28] this one is with,

[00:45:29] with the,

[00:45:30] Daddy.

[00:45:31] Daddy.

[00:45:31] Yeah.

[00:45:31] So,

[00:45:32] this is outside my parents' house.

[00:45:33] You can see that's my dad in the background.

[00:45:36] Again,

[00:45:37] my two chachas,

[00:45:38] my dad,

[00:45:42] my dad,

[00:45:42] my dad,

[00:45:42] my dad,

[00:45:43] and again,

[00:45:44] the car.

[00:45:46] Which car is this?

[00:45:46] That's a Mercedes 180.

[00:45:48] Mercedes 180.

[00:45:50] It was a red,

[00:45:50] red colored one.

[00:45:54] Oh,

[00:45:55] I hate this bunny.

[00:45:56] So,

[00:45:57] and this was,

[00:45:57] this is right outside the house.

[00:45:59] Where my mother's,

[00:46:00] yeah.

[00:46:00] Red font house.

[00:46:01] Yeah.

[00:46:01] So,

[00:46:02] just in the corner,

[00:46:04] well you can't see the house,

[00:46:05] but just over here.

[00:46:06] And my mom still lives there.

[00:46:08] Still same house.

[00:46:09] Your mother.

[00:46:09] My mother still lives in the same house.

[00:46:11] And you still?

[00:46:12] Yeah,

[00:46:12] yeah.

[00:46:12] We still go there.

[00:46:14] We still visit.

[00:46:14] But when you have these family gatherings,

[00:46:16] and you sit down now,

[00:46:19] how do you remember?

[00:46:20] What is it?

[00:46:22] Do you ever talk or do you,

[00:46:24] it's too emotional?

[00:46:25] We do.

[00:46:26] I mean, no.

[00:46:26] We talk.

[00:46:27] We have the fond memories of going to India,

[00:46:33] the picnics we used to go on.

[00:46:35] There was,

[00:46:35] whenever we all used to get together,

[00:46:38] if there was any occasion that we managed to,

[00:46:40] all of us go there together,

[00:46:42] then there would always be,

[00:46:43] on one trip,

[00:46:44] or once a year,

[00:46:46] there would always be a trip to Khandala,

[00:46:51] Mud Island,

[00:46:52] or the beach,

[00:46:55] Puna.

[00:46:56] So there was always some kind of a trip.

[00:46:58] And then that's where Dada could relax,

[00:47:01] and then be away from the limelight,

[00:47:04] and then just be a family man.

[00:47:06] But still not sing?

[00:47:07] No.

[00:47:08] So he sang for no one in the house?

[00:47:10] Oh?

[00:47:13] I would have been like this,

[00:47:14] if you had a son of a student.

[00:47:16] I know.

[00:47:16] I know.

[00:47:17] Never insisted also,

[00:47:19] no one insisted.

[00:47:19] I don't think so.

[00:47:20] No.

[00:47:20] I think they knew that.

[00:47:22] He wants to.

[00:47:23] Yeah.

[00:47:23] He wants to just relax.

[00:47:24] At home he just wanted to be the loving father,

[00:47:27] the loving grandfather,

[00:47:29] and be with the family,

[00:47:31] be with the children.

[00:47:32] When a bahu comes to the house,

[00:47:34] Yeah.

[00:47:35] Even if you said,

[00:47:36] Kishul Kumar is your favourite singer,

[00:47:40] how are you introduced into the legacy of the family?

[00:47:44] What is it that you carry now?

[00:47:47] Often.

[00:47:48] I find everyone,

[00:47:50] everyone,

[00:47:51] the family members,

[00:47:53] very humble.

[00:47:54] They never showed that attitude that,

[00:47:57] you know,

[00:47:57] we are a family of the big,

[00:48:00] you know,

[00:48:01] Patrafi South.

[00:48:02] So I've never felt that.

[00:48:04] Very welcoming family.

[00:48:07] And actually my,

[00:48:09] like,

[00:48:10] my mother-in-law,

[00:48:11] always said that,

[00:48:13] Tata Bha whenever he got something,

[00:48:16] if he would give that to all the bahu's equally.

[00:48:19] He never had,

[00:48:20] he was no partial to one bahu.

[00:48:23] Yeah.

[00:48:23] I think he was a very God-fearing man.

[00:48:25] Yes.

[00:48:25] And everything,

[00:48:27] I remember everyone saying,

[00:48:29] so anyone,

[00:48:30] anyone told him,

[00:48:31] to sing very well.

[00:48:32] And he'd point,

[00:48:33] he'd point to the,

[00:48:33] that's it.

[00:48:34] Yes.

[00:48:35] And I,

[00:48:35] he valued that,

[00:48:37] clearly he had a God-gift and a tarot.

[00:48:39] How do people who come to know about the,

[00:48:43] where you come from,

[00:48:44] the family and the man,

[00:48:46] how do they react?

[00:48:48] First thing they asked me,

[00:48:49] oh, so you must sing.

[00:48:49] You must sing.

[00:48:50] How much?

[00:48:51] When the family weddings happen.

[00:48:53] Yeah.

[00:48:54] Only Rafi South song play,

[00:48:56] or other things I doubt.

[00:48:57] No.

[00:48:57] Pretty serious.

[00:48:59] And when we have gatherings,

[00:49:00] like family,

[00:49:02] like once,

[00:49:03] I remember when we were in,

[00:49:04] uh,

[00:49:05] uh,

[00:49:06] Raffi mentioned,

[00:49:07] and it was,

[00:49:08] uh,

[00:49:09] yeah.

[00:49:10] So we had family gatherings,

[00:49:12] all of us,

[00:49:13] everyone.

[00:49:14] And then we started,

[00:49:15] uh,

[00:49:16] playing a,

[00:49:17] uh,

[00:49:18] and it's like,

[00:49:18] my side of the family.

[00:49:20] And obviously Rafi's side of the family.

[00:49:22] It was like,

[00:49:24] everyone's singing.

[00:49:24] And actually they do have good boys.

[00:49:27] Uh,

[00:49:28] all of them like,

[00:49:28] puppies,

[00:49:29] chachas.

[00:49:30] You know,

[00:49:30] they do and they sing.

[00:49:32] They're like very dedicated singers.

[00:49:34] And whereas us,

[00:49:35] we just like,

[00:49:36] sing,

[00:49:39] Sorkumar songs.

[00:49:40] And we,

[00:49:41] we did one.

[00:49:45] What is it is dance,

[00:49:48] Can't drop this legacy.

[00:49:49] Never will I tell you.

[00:49:51] Never will I tell you.

[00:49:54] Never will I tell you.

[00:49:55] um,

[00:49:55] I remember,

[00:49:55] the son's cat.

[00:49:58] He used to sing.

[00:49:59] Remember,

[00:50:00] yeah.

[00:50:00] Then,

[00:50:01] sorry,

[00:50:01] when I got married,

[00:50:02] I came into the family and we used to have cat things.

[00:50:05] Um,

[00:50:05] he used to sing really,

[00:50:07] really well.

[00:50:07] And I used to say that you should actually sing.

[00:50:11] He had a good voice.

[00:50:12] Yeah.

[00:50:14] He used to say,

[00:50:14] I don't know how to say that.

[00:50:16] He used to say,

[00:50:16] he said,

[00:50:17] he's too sorry.

[00:50:18] None of the children put to it.

[00:50:22] and I,

[00:50:22] I mean,

[00:50:23] ever since when we got married,

[00:50:25] Soakut will always say,

[00:50:26] you have a very eloquent voice.

[00:50:28] You know,

[00:50:28] you have a very good voice,

[00:50:29] speaking voice.

[00:50:30] And I've,

[00:50:31] I've never been one to be nervous.

[00:50:33] I can speak in front of a crowd.

[00:50:34] I can hold myself.

[00:50:35] But I never thought that,

[00:50:37] yes,

[00:50:37] I'm going to do the singing side of it.

[00:50:39] My voice,

[00:50:39] if I talk to someone,

[00:50:40] I can talk.

[00:50:41] You know,

[00:50:42] if it's a crowd of people,

[00:50:43] if it's a speech or a wedding,

[00:50:45] this is,

[00:50:45] I can talk and whatever.

[00:50:47] But it,

[00:50:47] I never thought that I could take that extra step

[00:50:49] and start singing.

[00:50:50] What you have now.

[00:50:51] Personally,

[00:50:52] I have.

[00:50:52] So,

[00:50:53] I want to add one more thing here.

[00:50:56] So when we got engaged,

[00:50:57] we were engaged for night once.

[00:50:59] And every time he used to call me,

[00:51:01] all over the phone.

[00:51:02] And I used to just sit there

[00:51:03] and it used to sound so good.

[00:51:04] You know,

[00:51:05] the way he used to sort of talk.

[00:51:07] Abbas,

[00:51:08] I used to actually listen to you now.

[00:51:10] With pity,

[00:51:11] I didn't have anything to record it.

[00:51:14] But now you have him singing like,

[00:51:16] what romantic song he sings for her.

[00:51:19] Go on,

[00:51:20] tell me what's your song.

[00:51:40] I need to have the lines.

[00:51:41] I need to have the lines.

[00:51:45] I need to have the lines.

[00:51:49] I need to have the lines.

[00:51:50] I need to have the lines.

[00:51:54] I need to have the lines.

[00:51:55] Go on.

[00:51:55] Okay, go.

[00:51:56] Kisho.

[00:51:58] What's wrong?

[00:51:59] No.

[00:51:59] No.

[00:52:01] No.

[00:52:01] No.

[00:52:03] No.

[00:52:04] You can sing Kisho.

[00:52:07] I don't know honestly.

[00:52:09] I don't know.

[00:52:10] I don't know.

[00:52:11] Yeah.

[00:52:12] Never mind.

[00:52:13] So on this,

[00:52:14] we will move on to our high five intersection.

[00:52:17] Okay.

[00:52:18] Five questions.

[00:52:20] Usually you don't have to relax.

[00:52:22] It's not a rapid five.

[00:52:23] It has to be one.

[00:52:24] Yeah.

[00:52:24] But the reward in the end is the best.

[00:52:27] Okay.

[00:52:27] It's a high five.

[00:52:30] So is it between us or is it you and us?

[00:52:36] She's very clean.

[00:52:38] Yes.

[00:52:40] She likes to do it.

[00:52:41] I can see that.

[00:52:43] I can see that.

[00:52:45] By the way, can I just say she's a mix of a Chinese and an Indian household.

[00:52:50] Yeah.

[00:52:52] Grand combination, I have to say.

[00:52:56] So okay.

[00:52:57] High five India.

[00:53:04] India for you in one word.

[00:53:06] I'll start with her because she comes from India and you have lived all your life here.

[00:53:11] India for me, it's

[00:53:13] Mera Bharat Mahat.

[00:53:18] A lovely place to visit.

[00:53:20] Fond memories.

[00:53:22] Fond memories.

[00:53:23] Okay.

[00:53:23] I'll choose that.

[00:53:25] What is it about India that the world doesn't get right?

[00:53:30] I think in everyone like the perspective is India is dirty.

[00:53:36] That's the perspective everyone thinks about if you speak to foreigners.

[00:53:39] But it actually isn't.

[00:53:42] If you go to, yes, there are parts which are, but if you go to, you know, rural areas or you go to hilly areas like Kashmir.

[00:53:51] It's so pretty.

[00:53:52] Where I come from, Daman.

[00:53:54] Daman is really, really good.

[00:53:56] You have Arabian Sea.

[00:53:59] You have Arabian Sea.

[00:53:59] It's really good beaches.

[00:54:01] It's very clean.

[00:54:02] It has Portuguese culture in it as well.

[00:54:05] So I think that needs to be sort of said more rather than, it's not order.

[00:54:12] Exactly.

[00:54:17] I think that's the harmony in the culture and religions.

[00:54:24] That needs to be there.

[00:54:26] If we can break down those barriers, it would be so, so much better.

[00:54:30] Yeah.

[00:54:31] Okay.

[00:54:32] Now onto Rafiza.

[00:54:34] I'm going to win.

[00:54:37] Wait, she still is a singer.

[00:54:40] I love it.

[00:54:42] This is the Chinese.

[00:54:45] And the Gujarati.

[00:54:46] I have a lethal combination of Chinese and Gujarati.

[00:54:53] That's why she said that.

[00:54:55] Okay.

[00:54:56] Okay.

[00:54:58] There was any song that could dip this pride Rafiza out?

[00:55:02] Would you think of anything?

[00:55:05] And it can be a Rafiza song.

[00:55:08] It can be a Kishore Kumar song.

[00:55:11] I actually like where the song,

[00:55:18] That it really touches me.

[00:55:21] Whenever I hear that song, it really touches me.

[00:55:24] That someone actually sang for him.

[00:55:27] And you know, the way it was.

[00:55:31] I think for me,

[00:55:35] I think the way he, he, the way he portrayed certain songs,

[00:55:39] he was a religious man.

[00:55:41] He never drunk.

[00:55:42] He never smoked.

[00:55:44] But if you listen to some of the filmy,

[00:55:48] the Nashai songs.

[00:55:49] And the way it came across.

[00:55:51] You think, how can the person who doesn't even know these things,

[00:55:55] sing like that?

[00:55:58] My favourite is,

[00:55:59] He was a person who is a person who is a person.

[00:56:01] I don't know.

[00:56:02] My favourite is,

[00:56:04] He was an emotion.

[00:56:05] He wasn't, he could be romantic.

[00:56:08] He could drink.

[00:56:10] And he could sing like so many heroes.

[00:56:14] And none of it he presented in the house.

[00:56:16] Yes.

[00:56:17] I know.

[00:56:18] It's like,

[00:56:19] I always say it's like a switch.

[00:56:21] You turn that switch on,

[00:56:22] and then the person was there.

[00:56:25] Yes, of course.

[00:56:26] There are a lot of rumours.

[00:56:28] There is a thing,

[00:56:29] yes or no, you have to tell me,

[00:56:31] that he sang so many bhajams,

[00:56:33] and so many shabal.

[00:56:38] And there was a,

[00:56:39] I was speaking through internet,

[00:56:41] and I came across this thing,

[00:56:43] that whenever he used to sing bhajan,

[00:56:45] he would convert.

[00:56:46] And Sonu Nigam said that.

[00:56:48] Not Sonu Nigam said,

[00:56:50] but the video said that he said.

[00:56:52] Okay.

[00:56:53] So...

[00:56:53] No, no.

[00:56:54] He was 100% true,

[00:56:56] dedicated to his religion,

[00:56:58] Muslim religion.

[00:56:59] And it was just that,

[00:57:01] his dedication.

[00:57:02] That's right, yeah.

[00:57:02] And I've, like you said,

[00:57:03] I've not heard the story,

[00:57:05] but I've heard from friends,

[00:57:07] I've heard from people who have talked,

[00:57:09] saying that yes,

[00:57:10] when he sang a bhajan,

[00:57:11] when he sang a naat,

[00:57:12] that it sounded like,

[00:57:14] someone from that religion was singing it.

[00:57:17] You know,

[00:57:18] a religious person was singing it.

[00:57:20] But he,

[00:57:21] it was his dedication to his art.

[00:57:23] One thing that you would,

[00:57:25] want to take from his life,

[00:57:27] and you take,

[00:57:28] and that has added,

[00:57:31] to your life.

[00:57:32] Following his footsteps,

[00:57:33] the way he was.

[00:57:34] Of.

[00:57:35] Of.

[00:57:36] Of being,

[00:57:37] a grounded person,

[00:57:38] a charitable person,

[00:57:40] a humble person.

[00:57:42] I think,

[00:57:43] in this day and age,

[00:57:44] I think,

[00:57:45] that's a good thing to do.

[00:57:46] When I come to your house,

[00:57:48] you know,

[00:57:48] EL Kitchens next time,

[00:57:51] at Pranayik's house,

[00:57:52] I didn't mention charity, okay?

[00:57:55] So, yeah, Asam.

[00:57:57] Well, what is the one thing,

[00:57:58] that you feel,

[00:57:59] that you have to carry as a legacy?

[00:58:01] Again,

[00:58:02] the same,

[00:58:03] he was very humble,

[00:58:04] and very down,

[00:58:06] grounded.

[00:58:07] Humility.

[00:58:08] Yeah.

[00:58:08] Definitely.

[00:58:10] If Rafi ji was,

[00:58:12] in today's time?

[00:58:13] I always think this question.

[00:58:15] I wish,

[00:58:16] true,

[00:58:17] I feel like,

[00:58:18] I wish he was here.

[00:58:19] I wish he was here.

[00:58:20] Yeah.

[00:58:20] But then,

[00:58:21] part of me thinks,

[00:58:22] the way the music industry is now,

[00:58:24] the way the songs are,

[00:58:25] the lyrics are,

[00:58:27] I don't know if he'd be singing,

[00:58:28] but I don't know,

[00:58:29] those type of songs would still be there.

[00:58:31] He was asked that question several times.

[00:58:33] But this was always,

[00:58:35] 60s is modern for people who were in their 45s,

[00:58:40] or 70s.

[00:58:41] 70s is modern for 60s, you know?

[00:58:43] So, this question was still there then.

[00:58:46] True, true.

[00:58:47] But I think that era was completely different.

[00:58:50] You had people who were poets,

[00:58:52] writing the songs.

[00:58:54] Sheer Shairi,

[00:58:55] the love and dedication they had for those songs,

[00:58:59] is completely different to now.

[00:59:01] Okay, my last one.

[00:59:02] What is the one thing you miss the most about him?

[00:59:08] His presence, I think.

[00:59:11] Just being there.

[00:59:12] Your last memory or thing?

[00:59:16] Last memory.

[00:59:17] When we were there visiting,

[00:59:18] unfortunately we'd gone there to celebrate,

[00:59:22] because Dada passed away during Ramzan,

[00:59:24] in 1980.

[00:59:26] So the plan and the idea was that the children,

[00:59:29] so myself, my sisters, my mum,

[00:59:31] we went out there during Ramzan.

[00:59:34] And then my dad and everybody else would follow later on,

[00:59:37] nearer to the end of Ramzan.

[00:59:38] But it wasn't meant to be.

[00:59:40] And he couldn't reach,

[00:59:41] despite being in Air India and all his airlines,

[00:59:44] he couldn't reach a father.

[00:59:46] Could.

[00:59:47] So he'd already,

[00:59:49] so the decision was made,

[00:59:51] I mean we were children and young,

[00:59:53] but the decision was made because

[00:59:54] they wanted to get the chanaza

[00:59:56] and the funeral done as soon as possible.

[00:59:59] It's always done over there.

[01:00:00] So, they made the decision that,

[01:00:02] look, go ahead with it.

[01:00:04] If we'll get there in time,

[01:00:05] we'll get there.

[01:00:05] But you were there?

[01:00:06] I was there, we were there.

[01:00:08] That's true.

[01:00:09] You actually got lost.

[01:00:10] I almost got lost in there.

[01:00:12] Of course.

[01:00:13] So, when the whole thing happened,

[01:00:16] when he passed away,

[01:00:17] so then it was a case of,

[01:00:18] you know, how everything gets organised.

[01:00:21] So, the janaaza was at the local masjid in Bandar,

[01:00:25] at the big masjid there.

[01:00:26] And now the body was taken on a,

[01:00:31] what do you want to call it,

[01:00:32] like a truck,

[01:00:33] what was the lake you get there?

[01:00:35] So, then the janaaza and the ma'am was done there.

[01:00:38] And normally that trip from the house to the masjid

[01:00:42] should only take,

[01:00:43] not even 10 minutes.

[01:00:45] A few hours were taken because of the crowds

[01:00:48] and how long it took to go.

[01:00:50] And then from there,

[01:00:52] going from the masjid to the kabristan,

[01:00:55] again, from Bandar to Juhu,

[01:00:57] shouldn't take you more than 15-20 minutes.

[01:00:58] But then again, that still took the same thing.

[01:01:01] And I almost got lost.

[01:01:02] So, I was there because my chacha was there,

[01:01:04] Shahid, who was the only man there.

[01:01:07] My mamu was there,

[01:01:08] Miraj Mamu and everybody.

[01:01:10] So, I was told, stay with chacha.

[01:01:12] Whatever happens, stay with chacha.

[01:01:14] Remember, I'm 14 years old with all this going.

[01:01:18] So, when the body was being taken on a truck,

[01:01:20] whatever happened, I lost hold of chacha, whatever.

[01:01:24] And the whole crowds and this was going on.

[01:01:27] And luckily, someone found me

[01:01:28] and they managed to put me with the rest of the truck.

[01:01:33] With the body that was being taken, yeah.

[01:01:36] So, it was a very emotional time.

[01:01:40] I still have vivid memories of that, you know,

[01:01:42] the crowds.

[01:01:44] Raining and the crowds.

[01:01:46] I remember watching it on TV, actually.

[01:01:49] The whole...

[01:01:50] Now, last, you...

[01:01:53] Anything that you want to say

[01:01:54] that you could not say to your dadapa.

[01:01:58] Just him.

[01:01:59] Closet.

[01:02:00] Anything.

[01:02:01] This is his first...

[01:02:05] Rancid.

[01:02:06] Yeah.

[01:02:06] On his hundred years.

[01:02:08] It would have been lovely for him to be here.

[01:02:12] Just thankful for all the memories.

[01:02:16] Thank you for giving us these memories.

[01:02:20] Yeah.

[01:02:21] Sharing such pieces of history and pieces of your heart, Rizwanzaa.

[01:02:29] I am so thankful to you.

[01:02:32] Thank you very much.

[01:02:33] Thank you very much.

[01:02:34] Thank you so very much.

[01:02:36] It's been...

[01:02:40] Emotional.

[01:02:41] No?

[01:02:42] No.

[01:02:43] It's been really an emotional episode,

[01:02:48] which is first of its kind, actually, I have to say.

[01:02:52] And I have...

[01:02:54] It touched my heart and my soul,

[01:02:56] and I'm so grateful to you,

[01:02:59] and I'm thankful that I did this.

[01:03:01] This is our heartfelt tribute to Rafi Saab,

[01:03:05] who lives in our heart,

[01:03:08] who delights our soul,

[01:03:12] and somehow, though he will never know us,

[01:03:16] we will always know, love, and remember him.

[01:03:19] Thank you ever so much for watching and listening to India,

[01:03:24] a story in the making.

[01:03:26] Please do be in conversation with us.

[01:03:31] Thank you so very much in accordance.

[01:03:32] Thank you.