EP 13 Unfiltered conversations: Do borders define boundaries?

[00:00:00] I have never been that bad as well, working on progress, working on a lot of progress but then you

[00:00:09] are still made a lot of progress.

[00:00:11] Sadeviya, Pushpinder Chaudhary, designation me, Kikana Kenge, Dr. Pushpinder Chaudhary, OBE,

[00:00:21] and founder and director of UKAF.

[00:00:26] The Bolaun, Pulao, Pulao, Pulao.

[00:00:34] I am Dr. Toyba Mushta, I am the Festival and Project Manager for Townsville Fire, Eugation

[00:00:57] I am the Festival, Ektavajaj, founder of the author and me publishing and Inklink,

[00:01:04] ok Loveena Tandon.

[00:01:06] This is India, a story in the making and I am your host, Livena Tandon.

[00:01:13] Hello and welcome to India a story in the making and on Vimind's day is round the corner and

[00:01:22] I want to ask these four women who have lived in India, first generation Indians who are now in the UK

[00:01:28] have seen both sides of the world how empowered or not empowered do they feel as compared to the

[00:01:34] women here.

[00:01:36] As we hear that India is more conservative and in terms of gender parity by the way

[00:01:43] the economic forum puts India on 127,146 countries and they say Iceland is at the top in terms of

[00:01:54] yeah and after that Norway and India is just no way to be seen but we are all here making ourselves

[00:02:01] seen and heard and I want to ask how do we feel personally Pushpinder Ji let's start or

[00:02:08] anyone may not be all talk Pushpinder Ji how empowered do you see as compared to our

[00:02:13] way of telling this is how much you have done to your husband.

[00:02:38] Two daughters and a son who are watching me and for me to live what they would learn is

[00:02:48] important and that's how I started looking at what being women is all about.

[00:02:59] So you started thinking about how you as a let's say what cliched of empowerment or

[00:03:08] what my role should be when your daughter was born.

[00:03:11] No it was before then because I came from a family of strong women my mom was a very strong

[00:03:25] woman and she influenced me a lot when I was going up.

[00:03:31] I had two brothers who were very clever and I didn't realise then that I was dyslexic.

[00:03:42] So I had a problem but my mom was the one who thought you know I don't care about the boys

[00:03:52] I want my daughter to be educated.

[00:03:55] I want my daughter to do well, I want my daughter to be independent.

[00:04:01] What's it I mean it always happens with my mother I will share it.

[00:04:05] She's an artist and but mainly she gave up her art for a very long time to push

[00:04:12] her birth to me and then she continued and she still continues to she must have

[00:04:16] it she would have done so much better had she not had to bring two of us up but we

[00:04:23] were her priority.

[00:04:25] But in her strength I found my purpose.

[00:04:31] I think it's so important my my dad was a practicing common as her would have left

[00:04:42] two kids and my mom was barely twenty with two kids and she went back to training

[00:04:53] to be a teacher because she felt you know what I want to give my kids the best

[00:05:01] education you know it's alright for my husband to abandon the work can do the

[00:05:10] work for communism then it was what are you talking I'm talking about just

[00:05:19] after you know early fifties early fifties in India in India early fifties in India

[00:05:27] was the time when when China as you remember became communist right next door

[00:05:36] to biggest democracy and there was Pandit Naru who was a socialist there was a

[00:05:44] kind of veriness about commonness all commonness so you there is a father who has

[00:05:52] left for the children to be looked after by the 20 year old to follow his

[00:05:58] communist dreams yeah she 1950s India in your house yeah in our house cut to now

[00:06:05] and so cut to now is my dad became the biggest business one in Scotland for supermarket

[00:06:19] to set up so from being a communist becoming very practical escaped India

[00:06:27] from those days and settled in in UK and your mom my mom came here and did so

[00:06:38] well and there as I said there was my two brothers who were very clever and then

[00:06:47] I was the elders with with dyslexia which they didn't know about which I didn't

[00:06:55] know about but I had difficulties but it gave me an advantage of looking at

[00:07:04] everything in a long winded way finding a solution and it's quite interesting

[00:07:13] that your father did all of this yeah and it isn't your mother that you found

[00:07:19] the inspiration yeah because she was the strength she was what was her strength

[00:07:24] that the field did I think she she had two kids and went back to study and be a

[00:07:34] teacher and made sure that we had the best education and it was the same here you

[00:07:43] know all of us had gone to to best schools in Glasgow went to best universities

[00:07:53] and she made sure that we weren't at disadvantage because this is the best way to

[00:08:02] to move forward in not your home country in your new home is education

[00:08:12] is education is educated and when you compare yourself with the girls you were

[00:08:18] studying it how how did you see your strength or your and did you feel empowered

[00:08:24] enough you felt no invest in that can they are far more I I

[00:08:32] we found strength in our diversity so in school when there was any special event

[00:08:48] that we would do an Indian dance as our specialty so and that came from home

[00:08:58] that came from mom and I think having a strong mom it's so important yeah I say

[00:09:05] that having the fathers are very important but if the mom goes a little bit she's

[00:09:15] the backbone let's call it this way she's the back one of the house she plays the victim

[00:09:19] yeah I think then you start winging and it lasts for rest of your life so one strength

[00:09:28] of your mother that has come or you have invite what is that I think is education

[00:09:33] is giving just rent the roots in a and I make sure that I gave my kids the

[00:09:43] roots education yes that's only half but story yeah and then who then the story

[00:09:51] the other half is what they learn from home the our roots are traditions how we

[00:09:58] do it so they have a choice they reject something knowingly why they're not doing

[00:10:06] it and I think that's for me is and what I find great is I see my kids do it

[00:10:15] with their kids that's that's so wonderful education has passed on from

[00:10:20] generations and diversity and tradition has been embraced yes yeah okay and

[00:10:26] pushpender she has we all know run is an MBE and she runs the tons of fire

[00:10:32] Asian London Asian first festival brings all the Indian awesome films and people

[00:10:39] yeah it's a UK bite so we have main festival in London but they travels to Scotland

[00:10:46] it travels to Midlands so we take our stories to round UK brilliant Monica

[00:10:56] co founder of author and me and bringing the right in the children the author

[00:11:03] and the children tell me your story Monica how do you feel how did you come here

[00:11:09] and how do you feel as compared to you feel the gender parity 127 is good is

[00:11:15] right so I came in UK in 2001 and there I was working at the lecture of biology

[00:11:25] my education side was different when I came here everything changed for me you

[00:11:31] came after marriage I came after marriage right yes and you are from where are

[00:11:35] you from in India I'm from Kuru for all those who don't and Hindi I said trees

[00:11:43] from the mountains yeah so one thing that I found like that gave me so less was

[00:11:50] like atmosphere environment was similar you know weather was similar the tree

[00:11:56] the floor and corner that's the similar that was one thing that I really found

[00:12:01] okay I am at home and the other things they were challenging the question is as

[00:12:07] compared to the women here do you feel less empowered no the answer would I

[00:12:12] would say no because back home my mother she is a very empowered woman I lost

[00:12:19] my father when I was only 13 and after that she was like she was the rock she was

[00:12:25] rocker how many brothers sisters were you I've got one younger brother

[00:12:29] and then I am so she brought your guide up yes she did and when I was studying

[00:12:37] you know in India it's common if you are like 2021 then we are we start telling you

[00:12:42] you get married and family you know they tell okay your daughter is she doesn't

[00:12:48] have father she should get married now and all that but then my mother said no no

[00:12:54] you should complete your education you become financially independent and then

[00:12:59] I will start thinking whether you should get married or not and what are you

[00:13:03] talking about nineteen late 90s 97 yeah so I completed my post graduation in

[00:13:10] 1999 and at that time I was 22 or 23 and everybody was pressurizing my mom that

[00:13:18] you know you should get your daughter married and she said no you first find a job

[00:13:23] and then if you feel you want to get married then you get married so she gave me

[00:13:29] that foundation she gave the strength her patience you know I always admire I see a

[00:13:37] little tear could drop from the ice and you drop for another yeah see see is very

[00:13:43] cumbersome she's very kind and she has and she is very strong at this

[00:13:49] intern because she took all the decisions after my father passed away so I think

[00:13:56] you know I when I came to this country I felt empowered I although I'm not that

[00:14:02] talkative or I'm not loud but I feel empowerment is not about you know saying

[00:14:08] out loud it's more about inner strength resilience patience which I think

[00:14:15] these days are not as valued as it should be your face lit up when you spoke

[00:14:21] about your mother at the same time you had almost got tears in your eyes and

[00:14:27] and I what is it about her that you are carrying here today

[00:14:34] I think her patience and her resilience and values that she has given me

[00:14:42] she's always told me that to respect everyone despite you know even have different

[00:14:47] opinion about anything you must respect you must listen to them first before

[00:14:52] you know you you give your own opinions so I think she is a very good listener and

[00:15:00] I would say that I have I have got that quality from her

[00:15:06] but the in these in the world today actually listening is almost becoming an

[00:15:12] art not many people listen this peak they want to put their point

[00:15:17] amari a was by our voice our voice listening is and it's was she was she

[00:15:23] working after no she wasn't working be went back to my paternal house where

[00:15:30] we lived in a joint family and my uncle were like you know they were looking

[00:15:35] after us and my father sent me everything but she never worked did you ever

[00:15:40] have a mother of a child in which she gave you shadi ke phele he just remember

[00:15:45] or something anytime that any chat that you remember which you carry with you

[00:15:50] oh she always you know when I'm getting married she said

[00:15:53] okay make sure that you treat your mother in law as like your mother your brother

[00:15:59] in law as like your brother so she gave me that advice like this and when

[00:16:05] you become a mother be strong be strong that's what she said I want to come to

[00:16:12] this question of empowerment but before that now that when you came here how do

[00:16:19] you feel in comparison to your western mothers that you've met the women

[00:16:25] that you meant did you feel any less or did you feel that you were less of

[00:16:31] empowered or you were less free or you had less freedom or anything

[00:16:37] no I don't think so I never thought that I felt less empowered already because

[00:16:43] at home in India as well my father always to be like a princess and she always told

[00:16:49] me that you are best and when you give when you get that kind of love unconditional

[00:16:55] love from your parents then you have that I think in built I would say strength

[00:17:02] that it nobody can bring you down you can only bring you bring yourself down

[00:17:07] when you are in doubt nobody can bring you down self-doubt can bring you

[00:17:11] otherwise otherwise and no no difference in treatment between brother and sister

[00:17:16] not at all I was always treated superior my brother has always you know smacked me

[00:17:22] for this he would give me both up okay there go Misha you are always given priorities

[00:17:27] over everything so I was the privileged one I would say.

[00:17:31] Pushminder do you feel this way?

[00:17:33] My mom thought I was the best person in the world.

[00:17:40] And I think what you're saying is so true that's so self-assurance

[00:17:50] yeah is so and go to hold on to that is the thing I think we can get to our

[00:17:56] big sea confidence education yes tradition yes but confidence big sea

[00:18:07] even now my kids tell me the story mom no matter what we wear you know when they turn up

[00:18:15] at my firm festivals she they say used to say to their friends just wait till

[00:18:22] my mom comes and she will say you look the best.

[00:18:29] The joy of that and my daughter says oh yeah you're going to say just that I said so

[00:18:34] you won't listen to the person who loves you the most but you want to go and listen

[00:18:37] to that woman who said that this fringe doesn't look nice on your you have acne on your face

[00:18:43] so lovely I have to so this is 1950s where you drew drew strength from your mother

[00:18:51] yeah you drew strength from a mother going on to 90s should we come to you then we'll

[00:18:57] give the youngest sister's to her but anyone can talk a little

[00:19:03] aka who's the co-founder of author in me as well the other the other half yeah I

[00:19:11] can't see the better because it was better we say better tell me your story

[00:19:17] and also did you also get your strength from your mother I got it from both my

[00:19:23] kids yeah I am the fourth of the four daughters I mean I'm the youngest

[00:19:31] four four girls yeah my father's and the army growing up we never had this conversation

[00:19:40] girls boys not treated like a princess extra special or something treated like normal

[00:19:45] people in five we were treated like soldiers so that growing up I heard

[00:19:51] a lot of stories about David Shakti Kali no wonder you want to see a book of Kali

[00:19:59] about my theological story so our dinner table conversation used to be about maybe

[00:20:06] a shlok from Bhagavad Gita or a story and used to discuss that my father's in the army

[00:20:12] and of course he was a very strong man you know I saw him in action but when

[00:20:17] he came home I saw a completely different role inside of him it was my mother

[00:20:23] strength that was behind him so that's why I completely believe behind every

[00:20:29] successful man there is a woman because she's my mother used to run the house

[00:20:35] in a way which was so silent in a very subtle strength that there was even though

[00:20:42] we were four children in the house four girls imagined such a chitachata every time

[00:20:46] have we had a lovely childhood beautiful of fun memories that I have never never

[00:20:52] seen my mother get angry wow never heard goddess yeah I've never heard her raised

[00:20:58] voice I have never seen her complain I have never heard her gossip and I have never

[00:21:06] ever seen her talk about my father or his family in a bad way to us in fact I

[00:21:12] have always seen if my father was out there he was the Colonel in the army and you know

[00:21:17] you had this whole battalion when he came home my mom was the Colonel in the sense

[00:21:21] she he had this respect for her and she had this respect for him for me growing up

[00:21:27] empowerment meant respect between a man and a woman each knowing what their

[00:21:33] strength is and each playing that strength very beautifully in fact it's very

[00:21:38] funny when we were growing up I used to hear stories of Jansi Ki Rani and I used to

[00:21:43] find this woman so amazing I used to wonder you know this is a perfect woman you

[00:21:47] know she's a warrior and she's so empowered when I grew up and this university

[00:21:55] or something I was out there in the world and this boy there this is young man

[00:21:59] he taught it's like oh you're just such a Jansi Ki Rani I said no that's supposed to be

[00:22:04] a compliment when did that become a taunt and for me you know that's when I started

[00:22:10] realizing the world that we grew up in the you know the place that little heaven

[00:22:15] that we grew up in and the world outside is quite different but for me it was

[00:22:20] always having that strength that my family had given me and now that when I

[00:22:28] came here and I was on my own you know I came from very loving close with me

[00:22:33] and suddenly I was here on my own and I had to cope and clean and everything

[00:22:37] something I'd never done before so initially that thought that come oh my

[00:22:41] god this is just you know what am I doing what am I doing and then I realized

[00:22:46] gradually going back to the roots reading those stories just going back to my

[00:22:50] parents' relationship and just talking to them I realized that empowerment is

[00:22:55] here it's knowing your back head yeah it's in your mind it's in your thoughts

[00:23:01] and I think because we are so we were so empowered and India in India I think

[00:23:09] it's in our DNA that is the only country where women are worshipped

[00:23:15] and if women realize that the power they hold I don't think so they should

[00:23:21] ever be any time any moment when they should feel disempowered because they

[00:23:26] there is no word as disempowerment for women it's the strength is already

[00:23:32] there it's just them and just accepting it and embracing it so mother Mary is

[00:23:38] worshipped and I will pick on your thing of behind because I know her push and

[00:23:43] Rajee saying that well we'll come back to it after we speak to her but

[00:23:46] there's one thing about Jhansi Ki Rani have been have been recited that poem

[00:23:54] by my mom that Khu Vladimir Dami Voto Jhansi Valida Nithi and I

[00:24:02] still remember that I don't remember yesterday but this is the kind of stories

[00:24:07] are being grew up right yeah and you know what what amazing thing she carried a

[00:24:15] song yeah we were taken to Jhansi to show where she jumped from this is part of

[00:24:25] our DNA it's a part of our DNA and it was quite amazing that when I became

[00:24:33] single and I had to carry on both my children around with me everywhere I

[00:24:37] went I never felt an ayurta of why am I having to do that it's fine it's okay

[00:24:46] it's my children and I love my kids and I love my work I love my work

[00:24:52] and powerment and you know if there's this this lovely phrase saying that heart

[00:24:57] and warrior in action that is what they're now they are so here when when was

[00:25:03] it that you came here in the okay three three did you feel any different

[00:25:09] any less any or any different let's call it for your I felt that I mean I

[00:25:16] personally felt far more empowerment than women here it's because probably I

[00:25:21] felt that we have these stories these role models that we grew up listening to

[00:25:26] hearing and the strength with which we do the Lurga poja or anything the women

[00:25:32] are so much more stronger shown there felt I felt more empowered in India when

[00:25:37] I came in and I saw these women and they were they were complaints about household

[00:25:41] work and stuff small things and I was like this is nowhere the empowered

[00:25:48] this is not you know this is not that you feel so you are okay with cooking

[00:25:53] for your husband if you want to and you don't see it as being suppressed or

[00:25:59] or you have to divide the job Saturday you cook and rest of the day I'll cook

[00:26:04] I don't how do you see that is heard at all I think what I want from a man a woman

[00:26:11] or a child or anyone in this world is respect love compassion those are the

[00:26:18] things that I completely value I don't mind I'll cook a lot of love for my family

[00:26:25] when I'm cooking there is a lot of feeling that I'm cooking for someone and

[00:26:30] if there's a lot of love in dealing with when he's working he probably is

[00:26:34] working with a lot of love for us when he's fixing the car he's working with

[00:26:38] a lot of love for us that you know we should have to be complementing each other

[00:26:42] I think so there is a but I've always grown up with this notion of

[00:26:45] shipchapty it's a balance isn't there you know we balance each other

[00:26:49] they are complementing strength that there is no competition here

[00:26:54] different lead and this is a different lead but having said that women have

[00:26:59] been told that they are disempowered and men have been told that they are stronger

[00:27:03] that is the mental battle which women have to fight with themselves

[00:27:08] so it is a they are powerful anyway it's just that they have not embraced

[00:27:14] the power because they have been not so self assured or growing up not

[00:27:21] given that I feel they are much more powerful because they have a spiritual

[00:27:25] and an emotional strength as well maybe they were not told about their power

[00:27:32] because power can't be misused some women as with this stuff women can

[00:27:37] put women down as well so there has to be a fine balance between that as

[00:27:42] well that yeah I feel they are quite powerful and there is no fight

[00:27:47] about not being also powerful good your household is happy when there's no

[00:27:51] fight about who does what we just seamlessly keep doing it I don't see

[00:27:58] that to be a point that we should be fighting about

[00:28:01] I have seen divorces happening because a husband wanted just hot food

[00:28:09] when he came back home and the wife said that was very suppressive

[00:28:14] no there is no condition like that what does he need

[00:28:16] I think like subjugation is when anything in the world is forced

[00:28:24] for example like the said she's very fine and comfortable with serving food

[00:28:28] for example if you talk about me I hate cooking food

[00:28:31] so if someone will tell me go into the kitchen and make me something

[00:28:34] I might consider that subjugation because I don't enjoy it

[00:28:38] as long as there's something that I enjoy doing whatever it is

[00:28:42] whether it's cooking or it's covering my head with the hijab

[00:28:45] it's totally fine because it's my choice and I'm making a conscious effort to do it

[00:28:49] as long as it's not forced if it's forced it becomes a publication no matter what

[00:28:53] absolutely beautifully said to Iba so to ever tell me your journey

[00:28:58] and how do you and what do you drop who's your strength your father your mother

[00:29:03] so being the ingest in the group and talking about 2000's yeah I am

[00:29:10] but well this is a facade on my tier-old woman

[00:29:16] the whole turtle as I say but I've been in UK for five years

[00:29:21] so it's not a lot my strength has been my family I'll say my father my mother

[00:29:28] and my daughter because I am a late 80s born and we were a nuclear family

[00:29:35] which is again very rare because my parents live in Kashmir

[00:29:38] which is the northern part of India and nuclear families weren't a concept

[00:29:44] so what happened because of that was we kind of built a small world

[00:29:49] where it was just four of us similarly that there were no different sessions

[00:29:55] in the Namanika there were no differentiators whatsoever

[00:29:59] my elder brother was four and a half years into me so he was most of the times my father

[00:30:05] so there was no differentiator but it's very important when you talk about somebody

[00:30:13] you have to talk about the environment that you grow up in

[00:30:18] which was entirely different with what my family was

[00:30:22] my father told me that there was no such thing as there was none

[00:30:27] no thing has gendered that you know my brother is a boy and a girl

[00:30:33] and I need pinks and he needs blues I don't know when that happened very messed up by the way

[00:30:38] so never happened but then when I went to my extended family

[00:30:45] my aunts and my friends or neighbors I saw a clear differentiator

[00:30:51] and it coming back to my family it made me blessed for the fact that I never had that

[00:30:57] growing up when I was in school I used to love doing photography

[00:31:03] because my dad loves photography I picked it from him so for every wedding we used to go

[00:31:09] I used to go with him to you know with your record and do video shooting and everything

[00:31:14] one of my uncles came to my father and said it doesn't look nice you know

[00:31:19] because in Muslims men and women sit differently in wedding

[00:31:24] so she's getting into the men's space and shooting while I was a kid

[00:31:28] why that is like I don't get she likes it she enjoys it she's gonna do it

[00:31:33] and she knows how to handle a camera your son doesn't

[00:31:36] so that's my dad he's given me the best of everything

[00:31:42] my mom she never worked as an worked in terms of getting money

[00:31:49] while as I think motherhood is a full time job

[00:31:52] so I think the definition of working needs to change there

[00:31:56] but from plumbers to electrician to anything my mom has the dials of everyone on her phone

[00:32:03] yeah she knows how to fix a fuse from a transistor to a transformer she knows it all

[00:32:09] salute absolutely a mastermind in calculating any equation or mathematical equation

[00:32:16] but I still need a calculator yeah she had strength in her own way

[00:32:24] and I saw her I have never seen her dependent on anyone so my brother knows how to drive

[00:32:30] he has a car my dad knows how to drive he has a car

[00:32:33] I take both of their cars because I didn't have a car because I was still a new driver

[00:32:38] my mom didn't know how to drive she never waited for someone to drive her around

[00:32:43] if anyone is around good for her if not she would just take a bus or a auto or a

[00:32:48] a matter of as it says in India and go and buy things and come back

[00:32:53] and I found empowerment I found feminism I found strength in that

[00:33:00] maybe she's not bringing the money in but then when I look at her I have got that independence from her

[00:33:07] I am someone who will find my way out myself because I've seen her doing the same thing

[00:33:16] so my brother again super supportive all the time he was so I have been an orator in my school

[00:33:26] and college and participated in a lot of debates that poor guy used to write by speeches

[00:33:33] that's why I learned all my awards and trophies for him because he used to call him

[00:33:38] I'm like this is the topic by I need a speech and I'm talking about it

[00:33:42] so you were good at delivery he was good at writing and you were a team

[00:33:45] no one knew about it I was the one who was getting clicked and speeches

[00:33:49] and I'm talking about the time when internet cafes had just started

[00:33:53] so there was no internet 10 p.m on your phone

[00:33:56] so that poor guy used to put his head together to write a speech for me

[00:34:00] everything to me and he was so cool

[00:34:02] how beautiful

[00:34:04] and not once in his life has he ever told anyone

[00:34:08] this is spoilers and secrets that I'm giving away

[00:34:12] right now let's talk about Ado

[00:34:14] his name is Azam

[00:34:16] where is Azam now?

[00:34:18] he's in Kashmir he's an advocate

[00:34:20] Azam means it's come from a zine which means like someone who's very big and

[00:34:26] and I think he has a huge heart

[00:34:29] he had always voted me silently without getting appreciation

[00:34:36] without saying that oh I did it

[00:34:38] so for me my family hasn't been pivotal

[00:34:41] and I'd kept my head closed and focused that this is my world

[00:34:45] because when I look apart from my family the situation was not ideal

[00:34:51] so outside of your family wasn't it?

[00:34:54] you know can I just say that you could have had a tear when you spoke about your brother

[00:34:59] I am so yeah because like

[00:35:03] being my brother we've been very close

[00:35:06] and because he was elder brother

[00:35:09] I never had a dollhouse or played with girls

[00:35:12] I used to play bat and ball with him

[00:35:15] do wrestling and do jokes

[00:35:17] and everything on the bed

[00:35:19] I can't tell you how I am

[00:35:21] Joyce thank God you didn't have video games

[00:35:23] we've done it all

[00:35:26] it's amazing how I will ask

[00:35:29] but it's amazing when she spoke up of other

[00:35:32] she was speaking there was a sense of pride

[00:35:38] when she spoke up of mother there was a sense of strength

[00:35:41] and when she spoke of your brother you had full and only love

[00:35:45] it has to be as in my eyes

[00:35:47] I say you speaking for real

[00:35:49] I think with siblings we don't tell each other

[00:35:52] how much we love each other

[00:35:54] because with parents I grow old

[00:35:56] you hug them

[00:35:57] and you say you mean world to me

[00:35:59] I love you

[00:36:00] but with brother and sister my brother comes to me

[00:36:03] and he's like what are you wearing?

[00:36:05] right?

[00:36:06] and you know there's love there

[00:36:08] he sends me these beautiful wheels on Instagram

[00:36:11] with monkey doing lipstick

[00:36:14] and he's like when my sister gets ready for a wedding

[00:36:17] I'm like grow up

[00:36:19] but you know like that

[00:36:21] yeah so beautiful

[00:36:23] beauty absolutely amazing

[00:36:25] so cut to where now you are here

[00:36:28] do you feel any less when you compare

[00:36:30] or what is it that you feel

[00:36:32] more endowed with

[00:36:35] let's not call it that

[00:36:37] I do not feel like there's a difference

[00:36:41] I think like it's very subjective

[00:36:43] because of the place you have been

[00:36:45] the culture, the value, the tradition

[00:36:47] and your upbringing

[00:36:48] please important role

[00:36:50] how you compare both the places

[00:36:52] anyone who tells me

[00:36:54] you know when I go back home

[00:36:56] I tell them Londoners home

[00:37:00] Kashmir is a place I was born in

[00:37:02] my parents lived there

[00:37:03] I don't deny that

[00:37:04] but I've got a car here

[00:37:07] I got my license

[00:37:09] we recently bought a house

[00:37:11] so I'm building my world here

[00:37:13] and from my own money

[00:37:15] or that kind of stuff

[00:37:16] so I'm building my world here

[00:37:17] and this feels home

[00:37:19] that has a part of me

[00:37:20] I don't deny that

[00:37:21] I do not feel any less here

[00:37:26] and I think what's lacking

[00:37:28] for me is even right now

[00:37:30] it's women are stocking

[00:37:32] and we understand we find it relatable

[00:37:34] I think it's high time

[00:37:36] we get men on the table to talk about these things

[00:37:38] yes absolutely

[00:37:40] because I feel that's what creating the problem

[00:37:43] is that

[00:37:44] I understand you, I know

[00:37:46] you chair for me, I chair for you

[00:37:48] but what happens when there's this one variable

[00:37:51] which is so important

[00:37:53] and it's missing

[00:37:54] yes and it's the boys as they say

[00:37:57] girls have arrived at me

[00:37:59] a lot of the way

[00:38:00] the men are making the joint

[00:38:02] they're not bad

[00:38:04] they'll get there in time

[00:38:07] they'll get there in time

[00:38:08] and I think it's important that

[00:38:10] how not how we bring up our girls

[00:38:13] is how we bring up our boys

[00:38:16] and I think it's something very interesting

[00:38:18] we were going to this spin

[00:38:20] everyone has seen this

[00:38:22] a very young spin

[00:38:24] and my daughter will say

[00:38:26] we are two women in the house

[00:38:28] and he's the only boy

[00:38:30] and my daughter is in my daughter's house

[00:38:34] and you say

[00:38:36] my daughter will say

[00:38:38] you're not doing this, you're being

[00:38:40] not being showmanistic

[00:38:42] what was that word?

[00:38:44] masculine

[00:38:46] masculinity

[00:38:48] toxic masculinity

[00:38:50] and this is toxic masculinity

[00:38:52] and then he turned around

[00:38:54] half way

[00:38:55] we were on the way from Spain to Gibraltar

[00:38:57] and just where

[00:38:59] one leg in Spain, one leg in Gibraltar

[00:39:01] and she turned around and said

[00:39:03] you old your own leg

[00:39:04] this is toxic

[00:39:06] femininity

[00:39:08] I can never forget it

[00:39:11] this is toxic femininity

[00:39:14] you're making me hold everything

[00:39:17] I grew up with three sisters

[00:39:20] and we were like five women in the house

[00:39:23] and we had no idea

[00:39:25] we were going to be invited

[00:39:27] but looking back

[00:39:29] I mean I see it now

[00:39:30] with four of us have different strengths

[00:39:32] so empowerment for me may mean something

[00:39:35] you know I projected differently

[00:39:37] my sister projects are different

[00:39:39] you know, other one, mother one

[00:39:41] my mother projects in a very nice, silent way

[00:39:44] so I feel as long as you know

[00:39:47] men also need to be educated

[00:39:49] women also need to understand

[00:39:51] that empowerment is not

[00:39:53] one you know

[00:39:55] not about one dimension

[00:39:57] it's not about the relationship

[00:39:59] it's not about the relationship

[00:40:01] it's a layer

[00:40:03] and you know being at once

[00:40:05] and modern isn't about

[00:40:08] you could drink smoke

[00:40:10] wear a short dress

[00:40:12] it's only symbolic

[00:40:15] it's about how you think

[00:40:18] how you think

[00:40:20] how you resolve things

[00:40:22] how you understand

[00:40:24] and be a part

[00:40:26] there is my question

[00:40:27] what is modern, what is empowered?

[00:40:28] one line

[00:40:30] Aikta

[00:40:31] what is modern

[00:40:33] and what is she said

[00:40:34] modern is not about being

[00:40:36] having you know

[00:40:37] drinking smoking

[00:40:38] wearing short dresses

[00:40:40] ghaliya, dhina

[00:40:42] you just you know

[00:40:43] what is modern

[00:40:44] what is empowered

[00:40:46] for me it's thinking

[00:40:48] analyzing

[00:40:50] and just being in the moment

[00:40:52] and that's so important

[00:40:55] so it's just breaking those barriers

[00:40:57] every day, every moment

[00:40:59] empowerment is a continuous mindset

[00:41:01] change

[00:41:02] it's a vulcan problem

[00:41:04] like men are

[00:41:06] not just a chef

[00:41:08] that's a public

[00:41:10] because we are sitting on a roll

[00:41:12] it's a round table of four, five women

[00:41:14] we can always say

[00:41:16] when the men comes to Iba

[00:41:18] then we'll have a discussion about

[00:41:20] how much progress and we will go around

[00:41:22] in men and in

[00:41:23] see

[00:41:24] what is the point

[00:41:26] at the end of the discussion

[00:41:28] we'll be like

[00:41:30] what is it

[00:41:32] why is it so important

[00:41:34] okay

[00:41:35] two last things

[00:41:36] one is

[00:41:37] compare in one line

[00:41:39] how you feel

[00:41:41] as compared to this western concept of

[00:41:44] modernity or woman

[00:41:46] are we actually in any way

[00:41:48] less modern

[00:41:49] or less empowered

[00:41:51] than our western counterparts

[00:41:53] we have

[00:41:55] a common

[00:41:57] path

[00:41:59] to

[00:42:01] still to walk

[00:42:03] and that's

[00:42:05] more in

[00:42:07] discovering our own strengths

[00:42:10] so there's a lot more common

[00:42:13] yes so women

[00:42:15] in general

[00:42:17] can't one place or the other

[00:42:19] it's a woman's journey

[00:42:21] not an Indian woman or a western woman's journey

[00:42:24] it's on a continuum

[00:42:26] we might be at a different place

[00:42:28] on this continuum

[00:42:30] but it's together

[00:42:31] same journey

[00:42:32] I think for me it's the same

[00:42:35] I don't feel less empowered

[00:42:37] or more modern

[00:42:38] or less modern

[00:42:39] I think we all are

[00:42:40] on a path

[00:42:41] of self-discovery

[00:42:42] knowing our

[00:42:43] weak strengths

[00:42:45] and I think

[00:42:46] it also

[00:42:47] when we compare

[00:42:49] ourselves with

[00:42:50] modern or western women

[00:42:52] it's not just

[00:42:53] it's not the

[00:42:54] it's the

[00:42:55] I think up bringing the culture

[00:42:57] that is different

[00:42:58] rather than having

[00:42:59] the struggles

[00:43:01] or the

[00:43:03] struggles I would say

[00:43:05] they are the same but it's

[00:43:07] how we are brought up

[00:43:09] that is the difference

[00:43:10] and I think in their culture

[00:43:12] maybe drinking wine is normal

[00:43:14] in our culture it's not

[00:43:15] so there's nothing to do with power

[00:43:17] or modernity there

[00:43:18] or being

[00:43:19] so this index

[00:43:21] has to be examined

[00:43:23] yes

[00:43:24] it is a hyper-demographic

[00:43:26] I think it's not geographical

[00:43:28] if you think about women in general

[00:43:30] as between the

[00:43:31] sense here

[00:43:32] or in a timeline

[00:43:33] maybe a woman who's

[00:43:35] 20 years

[00:43:36] and that to me

[00:43:37] will have a different set of

[00:43:39] things to work on

[00:43:41] or focus on

[00:43:42] while I might have something entirely different

[00:43:44] so it depends on where

[00:43:46] you are on the spectrum

[00:43:48] but I think

[00:43:49] it's unfair to compare

[00:43:51] kind of us

[00:43:53] us with this is not us versus them

[00:43:55] yes

[00:43:56] or us women on a journey

[00:43:58] beautiful

[00:43:59] now on the last note

[00:44:00] you can say one thing that you have never said

[00:44:03] either to your mother

[00:44:04] or the one you get

[00:44:05] your most

[00:44:06] strength from

[00:44:07] I would like to say

[00:44:09] to your mother

[00:44:10] to my mom

[00:44:11] so I think

[00:44:12] she is

[00:44:14] there in me

[00:44:15] and I see it

[00:44:17] and I

[00:44:19] I can't say

[00:44:21] I just find it

[00:44:23] different

[00:44:25] but I think it's mom

[00:44:27] mom

[00:44:28] say to mom today

[00:44:29] she's in front of you today

[00:44:31] tell her what you never told her

[00:44:33] I think she's given me

[00:44:35] the most strength

[00:44:37] to grow as a tree

[00:44:39] that you were saying

[00:44:41] reach the sky

[00:44:43] the secure your roots are

[00:44:46] higher you'll go

[00:44:48] and I see it in my kids

[00:44:50] and my kids' kids

[00:44:52] that this is

[00:44:55] in the genes

[00:44:57] your mom is

[00:44:58] in all

[00:44:59] you and all your children

[00:45:00] yeah

[00:45:01] yeah

[00:45:02] that roots is there

[00:45:04] Monica

[00:45:08] I would also please my mom

[00:45:10] because she has given

[00:45:13] her life

[00:45:14] you know, she was only 39

[00:45:16] and she was

[00:45:17] we don't

[00:45:18] and she has given all the love

[00:45:20] all the strength

[00:45:22] to us

[00:45:23] and the way she has looked after us

[00:45:25] we

[00:45:26] I don't think so

[00:45:27] she has left any

[00:45:29] she has given everything to us

[00:45:33] and I want to tell her

[00:45:35] that she is my

[00:45:37] she's

[00:45:38] everything to me

[00:45:40] whatever I am today

[00:45:41] is because of her

[00:45:42] her qualities

[00:45:44] I think in the sense

[00:45:45] of the mother's qualities

[00:45:47] they come to you

[00:45:49] and I just want to say

[00:45:51] that thank you

[00:45:53] thank you

[00:45:54] for everything you do

[00:45:56] and your doing

[00:45:58] that's it

[00:45:59] Iqsa

[00:46:01] I want to tell you my

[00:46:04] mom and my

[00:46:06] three awesome sisters

[00:46:08] and the youngest

[00:46:10] I know I'm also

[00:46:12] the most expressive

[00:46:14] one as well

[00:46:15] and that is only

[00:46:16] because I saw

[00:46:18] a wonderful

[00:46:19] role models in my family

[00:46:21] who were

[00:46:22] in every day

[00:46:24] life

[00:46:25] finding their strength

[00:46:27] in their own unique way

[00:46:28] and that's how I understood

[00:46:30] the value of being

[00:46:32] yourself

[00:46:33] so I want to

[00:46:34] really thank you

[00:46:35] but I don't want to thank my father

[00:46:37] I think

[00:46:39] he is the one

[00:46:41] who has taught me

[00:46:43] how to respect

[00:46:45] our women

[00:46:47] beautiful

[00:46:49] my mom

[00:46:50] thank you for believing in me

[00:46:53] thank you for

[00:46:54] celebrating me

[00:46:56] thank you for talking

[00:46:58] how about me

[00:46:59] behind my back

[00:47:00] all the men,

[00:47:01] women,

[00:47:02] relatives,

[00:47:03] kids

[00:47:04] and being proud of it

[00:47:05] my dad

[00:47:06] for being a

[00:47:09] silent supporter

[00:47:10] for

[00:47:11] sharing the love

[00:47:13] this for me

[00:47:14] for not differentiating me

[00:47:17] in whatever manner it is

[00:47:20] and never questioning me

[00:47:23] just giving me

[00:47:25] means to fly

[00:47:26] and this told me to go

[00:47:28] and sky's the limit

[00:47:30] you've always done

[00:47:31] that my mom has always

[00:47:32] done that

[00:47:33] to my brother

[00:47:34] who's been an incredible

[00:47:35] support and a pain in the ass

[00:47:36] but I love you

[00:47:37] can beat that out

[00:47:39] but I love you

[00:47:40] to my core

[00:47:41] and I know

[00:47:42] you don't say it often

[00:47:43] I don't say it often

[00:47:44] but I can fight the world for you

[00:47:48] and you will do the same

[00:47:49] of them

[00:47:51] choose one

[00:47:52] all three of them

[00:47:55] okay

[00:47:56] I'll choose my dad

[00:47:57] for the mere fact

[00:48:00] that he has been

[00:48:04] a person who never

[00:48:06] went ahead and screamed

[00:48:08] my name

[00:48:09] but I knew that he is

[00:48:10] if I look around

[00:48:11] he will be there

[00:48:12] and for the fact that he taught me

[00:48:15] that you don't need validation

[00:48:16] from anyone

[00:48:17] you don't know

[00:48:18] you're comfortable with it

[00:48:19] you do

[00:48:20] it gives you happiness

[00:48:21] go for it

[00:48:22] so you might act

[00:48:23] wonderful

[00:48:25] there we are

[00:48:26] thank you so very much

[00:48:28] thank you so very much

[00:48:30] I think

[00:48:31] you must do this

[00:48:32] I don't know what's

[00:48:34] the relevance of any days

[00:48:35] anyway

[00:48:36] every day is a mother

[00:48:37] every day is a woman

[00:48:38] every day is a father's day

[00:48:40] but sometimes on these days

[00:48:42] maybe it reminds us

[00:48:44] say an extra

[00:48:45] I love you

[00:48:46] hello

[00:48:47] so I thought

[00:48:49] yeah

[00:48:50] the one

[00:48:51] I thought I could

[00:48:53] escape

[00:48:54] especially if we have been talking about

[00:48:59] your mom

[00:49:00] and your sister

[00:49:02] I will end up crying

[00:49:04] I am

[00:49:06] I am very good at crying

[00:49:08] so I could do that

[00:49:10] I think

[00:49:12] I have three in my life

[00:49:15] my father

[00:49:16] and I never knew

[00:49:22] that he had

[00:49:24] I was scared of him always

[00:49:25] always very scared of him

[00:49:27] but when it came to the crisis

[00:49:31] I never thought

[00:49:32] he's going to be standing with me

[00:49:33] when he stood

[00:49:35] so

[00:49:37] his

[00:49:39] rationale

[00:49:41] his hard work

[00:49:43] she

[00:49:45] she loves

[00:49:47] always

[00:49:49] we were two sisters

[00:49:51] so we never ever thought

[00:49:53] less

[00:49:55] anyway

[00:49:57] and I think

[00:49:59] we just

[00:50:01] it's hard for me

[00:50:03] but

[00:50:05] when you have to do

[00:50:07] for yourself you just feel

[00:50:09] yeah

[00:50:11] my mom

[00:50:13] in my mother I see

[00:50:15] I think my independence comes from her

[00:50:19] she's fiercely independent

[00:50:21] and that comes from her

[00:50:23] my sister

[00:50:25] is my backbone

[00:50:27] she is my backbone

[00:50:31] I am the most

[00:50:33] indecisive

[00:50:35] healthest-culta woman

[00:50:37] and they give me a direction

[00:50:39] so I have never felt

[00:50:41] on feeling

[00:50:43] on being woman

[00:50:45] I hope I felt like a woman

[00:50:47] I hope my office made me feel like a woman

[00:50:49] and not send me on terror attacks

[00:50:51] and not worry where I'm going

[00:50:53] but I never have felt

[00:50:55] different

[00:50:57] men and women having

[00:50:59] their own

[00:51:01] strengths and they complement each other

[00:51:03] and that's the beauty of life

[00:51:05] and that's what I embrace

[00:51:07] and I think is when they help you

[00:51:09] grow

[00:51:11] yes, each other

[00:51:13] I want to

[00:51:15] mention Chantal here

[00:51:17] yes, your husband

[00:51:19] yeah, my husband

[00:51:21] I think

[00:51:23] all that I talked about

[00:51:25] tradition

[00:51:27] and the support framework

[00:51:31] he is the silent supporter

[00:51:33] of what I do

[00:51:35] and it's amazing

[00:51:37] my PhD

[00:51:39] while I had case

[00:51:41] my festival

[00:51:43] work is because of him

[00:51:45] he's

[00:51:47] you know when I almost feel

[00:51:49] when I put MBE

[00:51:53] at the back of my name

[00:51:55] he was more proud of it

[00:51:57] than I ever was

[00:51:59] he would tell more people

[00:52:01] he is the one who lies

[00:52:03] Dr. Pushpinda Chaudhary

[00:52:05] more than I would

[00:52:07] that's ever too

[00:52:09] and I think that's rare in men

[00:52:11] and he doesn't cook

[00:52:13] you cook for him

[00:52:15] I cook for him because

[00:52:17] he's a matter of control

[00:52:19] I give him what I want

[00:52:21] so that's the point

[00:52:25] the point is not

[00:52:27] yes because I like cooking

[00:52:29] I love

[00:52:31] you know it's

[00:52:33] what I cook

[00:52:35] is because I do it

[00:52:37] for it's love every single day

[00:52:39] every single day

[00:52:41] so that's the point

[00:52:43] it's beautiful that he

[00:52:45] doesn't feel insecure

[00:52:47] of your

[00:52:49] that's a man

[00:52:51] that's a human being

[00:52:53] when you don't feel insecure

[00:52:55] in the growth of your partner

[00:52:57] it's a successful marriage

[00:52:59] where both of you grow

[00:53:01] together and have the freedom

[00:53:03] and the choice to do what you want to do

[00:53:05] I'm really proud of each other

[00:53:07] I'm really proud

[00:53:09] the first that Pushpinda Chaudhary

[00:53:11] is like again she cooks

[00:53:13] jokingly such

[00:53:15] she can't show it

[00:53:17] make Chanchalji fat

[00:53:19] but I don't know how to cook

[00:53:21] I learned cooking from my husband

[00:53:23] and he takes pride

[00:53:25] so some days when we both are coming

[00:53:27] from office he'll drop me a text

[00:53:29] and we'll say if you reach early

[00:53:31] don't cook I'm tired

[00:53:33] I'll get into the kitchen

[00:53:35] and it does my 30

[00:53:37] for me I hate it

[00:53:39] so I'm like yeah women

[00:53:41] celebrating each other

[00:53:43] and growing with each other

[00:53:45] and somehow having the freedom

[00:53:49] to do what you want

[00:53:51] to do that

[00:54:11] it's knowing that there is freedom

[00:54:13] and you know like said

[00:54:15] freedom and also

[00:54:17] just

[00:54:19] freedom to show your weaknesses

[00:54:21] also I think

[00:54:23] that's it

[00:54:25] beautiful I think freedom to show your weakness

[00:54:27] is just vulnerable

[00:54:29] and being comfortable

[00:54:31] with that

[00:54:33] not feeling that is a problem

[00:54:35] that isn't about

[00:54:37] when you are just so free

[00:54:39] you just

[00:54:41] it's unfulfilled

[00:54:43] and when you understand each other

[00:54:45] about saying that

[00:54:47] you are tired

[00:54:49] you cook

[00:54:51] it doesn't happen very often

[00:54:53] but sometimes you feel like

[00:54:55] when the duties are divided

[00:54:57] you have to cook something

[00:54:59] you know that is something

[00:55:01] limiting

[00:55:03] you should have the freedom

[00:55:05] if you don't want to cook

[00:55:07] then the husband feels like

[00:55:09] saying that

[00:55:11] on your women's day

[00:55:13] say something to your husband

[00:55:15] husband

[00:55:17] that's it

[00:55:19] husband

[00:55:21] husband is the first

[00:55:23] husband

[00:55:25] where is that emotion gone

[00:55:27] oh my god

[00:55:29] he is very supportive

[00:55:31] I would say

[00:55:33] do you have to say that or do you

[00:55:35] have to say that

[00:55:37] you can't try

[00:55:39] he is very supportive

[00:55:43] and supportive as well

[00:55:45] and very loving

[00:55:47] and he celebrates my success

[00:55:49] oh that's wonderful

[00:55:51] you say that

[00:55:53] so Iber same for you

[00:55:55] you learnt cooking for him

[00:55:57] he is the sous chef

[00:55:59] I still am the sous chef

[00:56:01] so I just do the chopping

[00:56:03] and that too

[00:56:05] I don't chop onions

[00:56:07] because I get Terry

[00:56:09] so I pick veggies

[00:56:11] that I want to chop

[00:56:13] oh my choice

[00:56:15] where do you get that liver?

[00:56:17] goby

[00:56:19] he does most of the cooking

[00:56:21] to be honest

[00:56:23] but as a partner it is also important

[00:56:25] to have someone who keeps you in check

[00:56:27] celebrates you

[00:56:29] but also keeps you grounded

[00:56:31] so you will be in the front row to chair

[00:56:33] oh that's fantastic

[00:56:35] you don't have to say anything

[00:56:39] you don't want to talk

[00:56:41] this is something I tell you every day

[00:56:43] but I love the fact

[00:56:45] that

[00:56:47] we are completely opposite people

[00:56:49] in our thoughts

[00:56:51] in our choices

[00:56:53] and everything

[00:56:55] but the fact that

[00:56:57] there is this space

[00:56:59] where each one of us

[00:57:01] has grown in our own person

[00:57:03] and that is what

[00:57:05] because I was always a very independent woman

[00:57:07] but he has

[00:57:09] kind of given me those

[00:57:11] that space to grow

[00:57:13] I think

[00:57:15] that's his experience

[00:57:17] very good listener

[00:57:19] great so we are meeting in the camera

[00:57:21] so actually

[00:57:23] at the end of it

[00:57:25] they are not doing that badly

[00:57:27] as well

[00:57:29] working progress

[00:57:31] and I think you can make a lot of progress

[00:57:33] but then you have still made a lot of progress

[00:57:35] so there we are

[00:57:37] thank you so very much

[00:57:39] what a wonderful conversation

[00:57:41] to just come to a conclusion

[00:57:43] that actually women

[00:57:45] as a whole are on a journey

[00:57:47] we are on different parts

[00:57:49] we are different strengths

[00:57:51] when we compliment each other

[00:57:53] we make a great relationship

[00:57:55] that's when all those

[00:57:57] out of the window

[00:57:59] how did you like this

[00:58:01] chitachata on the dining table

[00:58:03] please do write in

[00:58:07] or put a me link

[00:58:09] link and me in

[00:58:11] and all that

[00:58:13] and follow this youtube channel

[00:58:15] next week I want to talk about

[00:58:17] something quite interesting

[00:58:19] but I think let's keep it

[00:58:21] under the wraps that way

[00:58:23] thank you

[00:58:25] take care and God bless

[00:58:27] and thank you for watching India's Story

[00:58:29] listen to my podcast audio on Apple

[00:58:31] Spotify

[00:58:33] binge-pods or wherever

[00:58:35] you get your podcasts from

[00:58:37] and watch the video of the podcast

[00:58:39] on my youtube channel

[00:58:41] Levinna Tandon

[00:58:43] new episodes are out

[00:58:45] every Sunday