Can Maharashtra reach its Trillion dollar goal before 2028? | Aashish Chandorkar | Nimish Joshi

[00:00:00] Very good data. Everybody welcome back to Bharatvaarta. This is your host Sharon. Last week we had a very interesting conversation with Mr. Costa Bdavzeh, who's the joint secretary reporting to the Deputy Chief Minister of Maharashtra.

[00:00:14] We spoke about Maharashtra's trajectory towards a trillion dollar economy and we had a lot of questions even after that. It got a great reception.

[00:00:26] This conversation has been in the pipeline for a while and I'm really glad that Aashish and Nimish could join us today. Aashish Nimish, thank you so much for being here.

[00:00:36] It's always a pleasure talking to you.

[00:00:38] Thank you Sharon.

[00:00:39] Let me dive into the conversation straight away. First of all, Maharashtra is such an important part of the puzzle for India's growth story.

[00:00:52] But it's also seen some sort of political uncertainties in the recent times.

[00:01:00] So when you calculate a great trajectory of a certain state or a region, how do you account some of these issues keeping these in mind?

[00:01:12] Nimish will begin with you and then we'll come to you Aashish.

[00:01:14] Yeah, first of all, Sharon, thank you for having us on the podcast and try to address questions the best of our abilities.

[00:01:23] But I think a couple of things are unique about Maharashtra. Of course, Mumbai, Desplear Disproportion and Troll in the economy of the country and all.

[00:01:34] But if you were to look at the last 35 or 40 years or probably even more, I don't think any single party has got a majority in Maharashtra state.

[00:01:48] And with coalition politics, definitely you get those adjustments, complications where focus shifts.

[00:01:57] If at all, I think the closest anyone would have got in was in 2014 when BJP got I think or 120 seats and half way, Mahakwa's 144.

[00:02:10] And under the Chief Minister's ship of Mr. Fadnawez for those five years BJP pretty much ruled like a single party.

[00:02:17] And all the tough decisions, strong decisions were taken then. So I think this is one definite aspect which has held BJP back and if I or the Maharashtra state, but rather.

[00:02:33] And if you were to take parallels, I think other parallels somewhat is be heard where of course the governance was pretty bad through the 90s.

[00:02:44] But there has been not a single party, no single party has come in, otherwise I think pretty much all states in the country.

[00:02:53] And unless I'm missing something, there have been single party governments and that leads to decide the size of governance. They might be bad, but you're not headed back so that I think that's one aspect.

[00:03:06] I think Maharashtra is unfortunately had two phase second.

[00:03:11] So what had happened was Maharashtra had a high base, I mean it's a base effect if you look at traditional industries like auto.

[00:03:22] The likes of the greater Pune area or Angabha, you had Tatamotas, Mahindra, Bajaj, Auto, Bharath, Fulch, Auto and Silleries.

[00:03:32] And over the last 20 to 25 years with the advent of new companies coming in.

[00:03:39] Maharashtra has lost completely to Tamil Nadu on one hand, Gurgaon, Delhi on the other, all the hubs have more away.

[00:03:48] I'm listing out some issues which are still in the weekend discuss each of these further.

[00:03:52] Second one Mumbai was the headquarters for pretty much all MNCs companies.

[00:04:01] And over the last 25 or 30 years we have seen some of them GSK's in a Sly shift to Gurgaon, with pro of course famous ly shift to Bangalore.

[00:04:09] And that takes away a lot of jobs, white color jobs.

[00:04:16] This IT services 20 years ago Pune was a close second to Bangalore in a way.

[00:04:24] And now it has lost out in a significant way and Mumbai's high cost structure prevents mass IT services creation.

[00:04:32] Similarly for the startup industry today if you see in discussion, Maharashtra doesn't really figure there might be a few companies here and there.

[00:04:42] But it's always a dialogue or contest between Gurgaon and Bangalore in some sense.

[00:04:49] So we've seen traditional industries as well as the industries which have pretty much created a lot of economic growth over the last 20 to 25 years.

[00:05:00] Maharashtra has kind of taken a backseat there.

[00:05:05] So I think and that has reflected in Maharashtra despite the potential despite Mumbai's being a powerhouse.

[00:05:13] That has contributed to I think the lower share of GDP over the years.

[00:05:20] And headlines are that the state has faced a lot of problems in attracting industry, competing with other states in terms of attracting new.

[00:05:31] So that's the framework in which I look at Maharashtra's economic performance absolute and relative to it.

[00:05:41] It's very interesting that Nimish says that Bangalore and other cities actually grew with the expense of Pune and other cities in Maharashtra,

[00:05:51] but you know as much as this competitiveness is encouraged between cities and between states and India,

[00:05:59] are we really losing out on something? Why can't we have like 10 more banglers all across India or 10 more Mumbai or 10 more Pune?

[00:06:07] So the way we look at proliferating such growth across the country, do we also have to look at similar models perhaps even for Maharashtra especially because most of the growth is also concentrated towards Mumbai and Pune.

[00:06:22] Sure, thank you Sharon see let me just give a kind of overview picture of the Maharashtra economy right in the NL company or specific issue.

[00:06:31] See, Maharashtra in some ways is the microcosm of the Indian economy.

[00:06:35] It has always contributed between 12 to 15 and 16 percent to the GDP right.

[00:06:39] So it's respective of where we are I mean that that share is not gone down.

[00:06:43] It stays something that ranged typically. In fact, there was a recent study by the economic advisory council to the Prime Minister which brought out the share of states from 1962 to the last decade and you will see that the numbers have been in that range for Maharashtra.

[00:07:00] And also there's a very unique strength for Maharashtra which is that everything which constitutes the GDP of a country.

[00:07:07] Maharashtra contributes to each of those segments it has not skewed towards one or the other components right.

[00:07:13] So if you talk about agriculture, if you talk about manufacturing services or industry which is like mining type, you know industry for example I mean everything in every segment Maharashtra has a presence.

[00:07:26] So but obviously like because of the competitive forces being very different in each of those segments.

[00:07:34] So for example, I mean in in in services you could be competing with some one set of states in manufacturing it's other set of states right.

[00:07:43] So the the the policy dimensions which would stabilize this contribution or which would keep Maharashtra relevant.

[00:07:51] They are different for different types of segments and that is not the case for sort of other states who are focusing on money area.

[00:08:00] So the the policy making environment and Maharashtra is more complex because you know the complicity of the economy is perhaps higher than even some of the more developed states which are competing against Maharashtra.

[00:08:11] So so this is one dynamic which I think probably is not you know as strongly understood sometimes as a challenge for the state to address right.

[00:08:23] But also if you see Maharashtra sky turbanize in that sense when Mumbai Pune in April a three of the top 15 odd cities by population or by GDP I mean they are in Maharashtra.

[00:08:36] Nashick which is actually a smaller city is one of the highest contributors to the GDP because of the industrial environment in that region farming plus some industry.

[00:08:49] Also, there are there have been auto industries even further deeper in the state right in in the Bharatwara region so it's not that.

[00:08:58] The urban urbanization is lacking in the state. In fact it is all the mean aggregate number may be small because it's a large state and large population but it has got some of the most productive urban clusters as far as industry is concerned.

[00:09:13] So I think the issues more about managing the attractiveness separately for each segment right and then how do you repurpose for example.

[00:09:21] As Namesh was saying lot of the burden has come on Pune because Mumbai was the high cost structures subliminal industries had to move out.

[00:09:30] So the companies which had to stay Maharashtra day I mean their first logical option was to come to Pune but then Pune itself has not kept pace in terms of infrastructure in terms of say having an international airport all of that right and that's where in fact one of the turning points for the IT industry was that where both Gangu Rua and Atra Bhat got very high quality international airport sin.

[00:09:51] And Pune did not so connectivity was it became easier for the firms to kind of relocate there.

[00:10:00] So these are the kind of the broad issues and then we can perhaps discuss in more detail in each of the areas.

[00:10:07] Thanks so much. Usually when we talk about setting certain goals right like trillion dollar economy by 2020 8 everybody gets a little nervous naturally because you know none of these goals ever met in a country like India is because you know we usually get delayed by something or the other.

[00:10:26] So what are the things that we need to factor in especially keeping in mind the numbers and the promises and the projections.

[00:10:32] So I think see firstly I'm a sort of a believer in having ambitious goals because if you shoot for those ambitious goals even if you end up at 85 90 percent it's still a progress so.

[00:10:50] And quite a few times a lot of people get energized and mobilized towards such a big goal to million dollars five trillion dollars so I'm actually a big proponent of those so whether we get there here ahead doesn't matter so so that's there.

[00:11:07] But see there are a few things for sure in terms of this and the first of all is I mean we have to look at what are the industries of the future.

[00:11:19] I mean the one thing okay past this past our season I spoke a bit about some of these things we missed at the state my rastra and I say us because I'm from Mumbai that way.

[00:11:32] So the one parent met I would say do we have a chance and then we look what are the industries of the future.

[00:11:40] Now there are few things some like electric vehicles semi conductor manufacturing.

[00:11:49] That's definitely some of the industries of the future and we've seen some movement I think a third.

[00:11:55] The electric two-wheeler company is starting something in Mara strā.

[00:12:01] I think a dany group is starting something in partnership with the R semiconductor in the.

[00:12:11] So I think even Skoda folks wagon also is probably starting something I have some announcement.

[00:12:19] So I would say in.

[00:12:22] If you see ten years back there were 15 years back there were in such announcements where we were losing out so definitely bits and pieces we are Mara strā is showing something so that's definitely.

[00:12:35] I would say gives a lot of hope.

[00:12:40] Second I would say industry sunrise industry is defense production and we've been importing a lot but I mean the events of the last few days what you seen in the Middle East.

[00:12:56] I'm of course we're indigenisation was something which we were prioritizing but events of the last few days would probably only accelerate some of these things and I think that's the other area where I think there are some.

[00:13:15] There's some bits and pieces happening in terms of this I think that's where I'm hopeful Mara strā will get some share.

[00:13:27] I mean otherwise it's been a bit bangloles and trekking all in terms of production at jail and has been in those areas but that's the second area.

[00:13:36] Third day definitely I feel clean energy is another area that has been a lot of this and I guess there are a bunch of projects which have been planned by the likes of Adani, Tauren and even NTPC.

[00:13:52] So, by and large I feel some of these industries of the future are coming that should help Mara strā a lot as we go from half a billion to a trillion dollar economy.

[00:14:09] But I feel in the same breath it's important to have a stable policy regime and we've seen what happens when this because of the latest.

[00:14:24] As my tendency that everything that the earlier government has started you kind of end up stopping and then that has the costs escalate you see Mumbai Metro and other such things or even the Mumbai this the bullet train.

[00:14:41] So, I think as long as there is stability in the policy regime I think that's very important but there are green shoots in terms of industries of the future.

[00:14:57] Attracting Mara strātting it's fair share of those I think that's that's the foundation of this is what I would think maybe Ashish can add a few more things on this.

[00:15:09] I think I'll just add here that see the initial important thing for any economy to grow is that how what kind of infrastructure is available for future expansion.

[00:15:19] One challenge with Mara strāt has been that even for Mumbai and Pune which were the two major centers and you know forget about like not for a chatrīśama china garal you know I'll get a garal Nash economy they came later but even for Mumbai and Pune which have been always industrial even the British era.

[00:15:36] I mean like the first railway line was Pune in 18 for peace. So even there the infrastructure has been in a catch up mode.

[00:15:44] So let's let's let's look at Mumbai right what are the big projects going on today there is coastal road coastal road was proposed in 1960s.

[00:15:53] There is a second airport that we're talking about in the Mumbai which was the first feasibility study happened in 1990s for that right.

[00:15:59] There is the the M.T. the Atalseetu or the M.T.H.L which I mean which was an augmented earlier last year.

[00:16:07] So that project was first talked about in 1960s again 50 60s right there were studies done and the former studies had been done for that project in that era.

[00:16:15] So so the thing is that what the city of Mumbai should have built or I mean Metro for example like Delhi got a metro,

[00:16:22] Calcutta had a metro since 1980s, Delhi got it in early 2000s but in Agil Mumbai which is like the most important commercial city of the country.

[00:16:31] The first metro line started running in 2013 I think that was the first line which and a very small line which went life.

[00:16:38] Now which are going to extend the world today doesn't have functioning metro or functioning public transport right and Mumbai is any of the constraint because the rail lines cannot be expanded even the knocks out orientation of the city,

[00:16:50] difficulties first traversing.

[00:16:52] So I think that this is the major challenge that all the infrastructure for even the major cities is in a catch-up mode like when the new airport will be built you could say that we would still only be addressing the capacity needed to anywhere so.

[00:17:05] I mean it like in Pangur also for example in the venue where the new airport also it's completely full now right like the new terminal already seems like it's it's crowded and it's fully occupied.

[00:17:15] I think the same is going to happen in Mumbai that because you know there's so much latent demand for connectivity that may be in 2003 or a time the new airport must still start working over their port already right.

[00:17:27] So this will this will remain a challenge because I mean if this is a situation Mumbai which by the way in 1947 was perhaps richer or more organized than even Singapore or Hong Kong which were other of course for the British system but has been left behind.

[00:17:47] I mean you know, I'm moving to Pune.

[00:17:51] I mean I level Pune my basis in Pune my I move during 2004 I remember you know the stockboard Metro have going on since the time I move with my Metro on the starlight in Pune couple of years ago and if you also go right so it took like almost two decades to plan for it.

[00:18:08] Pune a ring road has been talked about it's still on paper Pune airport still on paper I mean there's a new terminal now but the actual airport is still pretty much on paper.

[00:18:17] So I think these challenges have to be addressed and this work look at something like something like something like Mahamark, right like which the.

[00:18:25] That project I mean of course good thing is it has got done now but imagine that there was no connectivity between Mumbai and not but like the second the first and the third largest cities in the state had no direct connectivity you have to like go through a series of you know cities you are to hop cities to kind of move on on road.

[00:18:43] And I think these are the type of challenges which the state has to keep addressing with a forward looking view currently we have backward looking perhaps we will catch up in ten years and come to a even point.

[00:18:55] But I think after that it will need some kind of a forward investment to address some of the issues which they missed that because indices of the future will also need infrastructure at least of the present it's not of the future to develop.

[00:19:09] That's fantastic. It's very interesting that you say this what I would like to know from the both of you is that especially after the course of conversation.

[00:19:17] It really troubled me for a while because I kept thinking why why can't every Indian city or state have such a clear vision that Mumbai is today having showed has its challenges and like you said some of the projects.

[00:19:34] Have been in the pipeline over 50, 60 years even but today in spite of all the construction all the debris and some of the temporary problems it's causing.

[00:19:44] You know that there is a vision for the city with a new airport with the metro coming up with several other projects lined up.

[00:19:51] It's actually transforming and the political class has a vision as to what Mumbai or Maharashtra should be or can be in another 10 to 20 years from now.

[00:20:01] What according to you work well for Mumbai and Maharashtra if you could quickly summarize in 30 30 seconds will begin with the mission.

[00:20:11] I think definitely leadership at the top of a fleet it's only a second there are only thought that if you see Manohar Joshi in 95.

[00:20:22] I think if I live in the Ferdinand, I think in 14 and probably since 2014 onward you have seen urban chief ministers in Maharashtra otherwise pretty much everyone was from I think western Maharashtra.

[00:20:37] One part of this by and large there might have been exceptions.

[00:20:41] So I think that is one and you see that when this happens people tend to prioritize their broader constituencies it happened in Karnataka where Bangalore was deprimentized and rest of this.

[00:20:56] It's happened where a lot of taxation came from Mumbai for whatever reasons but Mumbai didn't get it fair share.

[00:21:02] So I think definitely leadership at the top is the number one thing before Mr Ferdinand, I think for a significant time Mumbai was the cash cow for real estate development make money and I think that change that switch change in 2014.

[00:21:22] And a lot of projects were kind of put in place initiated using with some delay.

[00:21:30] So I think for me that is the single biggest difference and with that political leadership it brought a lot of strategic leadership kind of combining agencies which look after certain things rather than having 15 different agencies doing it.

[00:21:48] So I think that clarity in my mind is the single biggest reason otherwise it was there for everyone to see what issues or typical Mumbai Karnataka has.

[00:21:59] In fact the only person to become a chief minister was Devraj Arva from Bangalore and he was a man from the coast technically so he was never from Bangalore.

[00:22:10] So you know the city grew of on its own so which is why you know all the politicians are equally discredited.

[00:22:15] So I had one more thing because I was the bold of I am not put for a sourdough on the board.

[00:22:22] So what has also happened from 2014 to 19 which might have been not noticed because we have talked about Mumbai is not put has become in a way the education capital of Mara's.

[00:22:34] The center of gravity shifted from Pune to Nakhpur. You have aims you have the national law school you have an iron and everything has really come up there again.

[00:22:48] You realize that there are certain inherent difficulties in getting some other industries so at least make it an educational capital which brings with its own set of other ecosystem things.

[00:23:00] So I think there have been of course helps that the chief minister then and a prominent minister where from Nakhpur.

[00:23:08] But I think my view is every city needs to stand for something you can't be everything for everyone and then build that ecosystem around that.

[00:23:18] I think some of that leadership at the top has driven I mean I don't know but in the last two years I'm interested in the only tarnas also kind of got its fair share of.

[00:23:31] It's like greater Mumbai in some way but yeah urban centers are getting like a lot of love now.

[00:23:39] I just add that I think about the list of the chief minister I think there was only from what I remember only a year until a year away short term works from the Pune to Nakhpur region.

[00:23:48] But I mean every one of the leaders in Mara's shop actually come not from Mumbai or Pune and that kind of reflects in the way urban, you know, priorities are addressed.

[00:23:58] And I think Mr. Fundman's term was quite critical in terms of some of the major decisions because he straight away got into the you know the more urban industrial type of stuff.

[00:24:11] I mean he started this thing called magnetic Mara's trip which was the investment event, you know, the large infrastructure projects.

[00:24:19] So of course state has its own capacity, then its own limitations and the state has all its own fiscal limitations, it's own administrative limitations.

[00:24:26] Right, you can't run like 100 large projects together but who's credit he tried even a he kind of put in visionary projects on you know in play.

[00:24:36] Even actually outside of the industry even if you look at infrastructure, if you look at.

[00:24:40] Africa, which is water management.

[00:24:43] So I think that I think that was a turning point because the economy was stagnating for a couple of years around for the 12th, but the 13th, the GDP growth had become quite flat-ish actually around that time.

[00:24:54] So this was a turn around and hopefully the state will build on it in the coming years because now and on Mumbai, you know actually I completely agree with you.

[00:25:04] Mumbai could be a very very different city in a few years right like once the entire metro network.

[00:25:10] I mean it still talks about 10 12 years from now because all the lines will take a while to get connected.

[00:25:15] But when you have the airport, when you have the metro network, when you have the expanded rail network.

[00:25:21] I think it's a very different city in terms of where it is today and it will be a truly global city.

[00:25:27] I mean, what needs to be done of course in terms of the urban management, you know traffic and you know other aspects of urban waste management stuff like that but I think it's still showing some progress and it's still on the right track.

[00:25:39] So I'm actually quite positive about how how Mumbai is evolved and hopefully let's see.

[00:25:45] The natural challenge right now especially because you know moving to the elections in Maharashtra, Ariana and Delhi even.

[00:25:57] So even in Kashmir for that matter, in fact the kind of manifestos that we're seeing in the promises that we're seeing.

[00:26:04] Obviously is taking us down towards a path that we once visited and perhaps are going to be revisiting again and again.

[00:26:12] You're seeing the handout culture once again become very prominent and all the parties are having a go at it.

[00:26:21] So while accepting this reality, how do we also ensure that you know growth especially in areas like tech, science, infrastructure is ensured and there is you know enough money for capital expenditure of other nature.

[00:26:37] See I think I'm personally not a very big fan of these handouts and probably sitting where I am it is easy for me to say that.

[00:26:51] It's a probably some needs now one thing politicians always answer to incentives and it's we have seen some.

[00:27:03] Kylifx of bad implementation or like firstly poor policies and then bad implementation of those I think where you sit in Karnataka that's a clear example.

[00:27:15] We've seen in the market with this which is the one bad policy has pretty much bankrupted the state and they can't even pay the state government employees.

[00:27:25] So I'm just a big for it. Gurgavel pay for Hariyana now Mumbai will pay for Maharashtra and Panglovel pay.

[00:27:31] Yeah so I think I think it's more than Mumbai I think it's every one pays it's not because so that remains to be seen I don't really have an answer for that it's it's there is some competitive populism now there are lot of statistics.

[00:27:45] If someone with you it's only 10% of the budget or it's less than 10% but this is once you go down this rabbit hole I think there is no escape so I think I am not a big in fear but I guess the counter thought process is anyway the opponents are whoever is not in government would have promised something like this.

[00:28:13] And we've seen that happen once right in from 99 to 2004 the Indian government and Mr. Vajpay the government had a very great like there are very fiscally disciplined government.

[00:28:29] And in fact they had to pay for it the lost. I despite doing a lot of good bringing working through difficulty times when there were sanctions post-poccurrent to and all that good will which was accumulated was then skitted away by the government which came later on.

[00:28:49] So there can be a part of it which is if any way the opposition is going to do then it becomes a question of game theory so I can understand the large in your jina which the women 1500 rupees and all it's understandable.

[00:29:09] I mean with I'm in favor of not doesn't matter but probably if I were in that place I would have maybe done the same so can't really.

[00:29:19] If you're going to do you might as well do it and do it better so I think that's how I would look at it.

[00:29:28] I know the actually taught us two important things one is that the unimaginable can actually happen with time and secondly I think it's the same but politically it was different for the BJP obviously you know they suffered quite a bad defeat over there and it was quite a learning lesson you know it was a wake up call for the party and for the rest of the country.

[00:29:49] That way we've seen that any big ticket development projects taken up anywhere in India has some sort of effect politically and you know electorally and that that obviously affects the political class and there may be a forced to think twice before going ahead hastily with it.

[00:30:09] We've seen the effects of having the banyomis or expressway for instance the local economy across the older highway has actually got affected so all of those people voted.

[00:30:20] Perhaps against one or the other party during the elections.

[00:30:24] So even when we speak in the context of Maharashtra Mumbai Ashish you're seeing the Darawi.

[00:30:33] And obviously the conversation online is also that people are slightly inconvenienced.

[00:30:40] So how do you tackle such a situation?

[00:30:58] Yeah, no that's a great point.

[00:30:59] These are not built up even 30 or 30 years ago right a lot of this happened on these 70s it is 90s.

[00:31:06] But I mean there was space available there were resources available so you know it kind of went a certain way you could plan for it and and take decisions which which were relevant in the context of a city state.

[00:31:19] But in a you know economy and in a political environment like India and especially a city like Mumbai which was a huge city always has been India's largest industrial base.

[00:31:34] The challenges that when you retrofit things then it's not easy to manage because let's say if you're building okay let's say they are 10 metro lines being built now one argument could be that you know you have dug up the whole city together.

[00:31:54] But I mean for those 10 years it will be a difficult situation for those living in the city right because ultimately the city was already considered there were no roads etc.

[00:32:04] So it's a very practical problem I don't think there's a good answer here at all because it's about managing the perceptions it's about having the trust in the leadership.

[00:32:14] People will obviously react to the day-to-day inconvenience. There's not a lot about that I mean actually even for example.

[00:32:22] Even though the construction levels are not as high as Mumbai there's only three metro lines.

[00:32:29] Two of them are more or less done actually only one under construction but the problem is that even that inconvenience is people because if I'm going to the IT area right which is the injury body area and that's where the third metro line is being built.

[00:32:42] Now if it takes five years every day I have to pass to that pure.

[00:32:47] And get to my work which is not easy even without the metro line there's a lot of traffic and so on.

[00:32:54] So I think there are these practical issues which are very difficult to address but that's also because we are doing things post-stacto.

[00:33:02] What should have been done in 1980s, 90s we are doing it in 20 twenties.

[00:33:05] So that is there's no easy answer there.

[00:33:10] But I just want to pick up on one point from what Namesh was saying through the previous segment right?

[00:33:16] See, on the policy of the health tourism.

[00:33:21] I think there's also another way to reorient it. So for example we have seen that in the in the Mandega.

[00:33:28] You know like they were the incentive to build local assets.

[00:33:31] So this job being created in a welfareism mode but it's also contributing to the high-quality economy right?

[00:33:36] So this could be around construction of village roads or they could be some repairs to existing water management infrastructure.

[00:33:45] I mean, Maharashtra did was doing the same thing earlier right?

[00:33:47] This whole Jelduksh shiva program was precisely that right? Like when you create water capacity, but I mean of course the environment is very hyper local in nature.

[00:33:56] So it may not look like a huge project, I mean like like you could be spending two lakhs on something.

[00:34:01] But the two lakhs could go all significant way for the economy of the village because that village was not so big per se.

[00:34:09] So I think you can have these ideas where you can manage some of the more capital expenditure type, you know initiative, software, state government or local government.

[00:34:20] Which then creates local employment has you know generate some production of some local assets etc.

[00:34:27] So I think that combination also perhaps you know, states can explore it happened for a better in Maharashtra but I think the Luxury world has now again come up and now they talk about river linking etc.

[00:34:40] which are the larger water management programs.

[00:34:43] So again some of this would also lead to a welfareism of a different nature which is that to create jobs but create jobs towards a very specific project oriented purpose.

[00:34:53] So what are the other opportunities that we can look at especially in the context of Maharashtra which will also help Maharashtra reach a trillion dollar and further.

[00:35:05] And also because we are living in the era of mega cities where even though you have 120 cities.

[00:35:13] The smart cities, you know some places there's been a challenge some places it's taken off but everyone's starry idea they want to go to Mumbai they want to be in Gurgao and Bengaluru.

[00:35:25] But we are not thinking about creating more in most cities and local economies you know spread across.

[00:35:31] So how is Maharashtra dealing with this?

[00:35:34] I think see there is no solution for something like this.

[00:35:38] I mean you look at any just the sheer population that we have even in the smaller cities.

[00:35:47] You look at any country and how many big cities does any country have?

[00:35:51] I mean US probably is light exception but otherwise you look at living in the country like Russia.

[00:35:59] Even like China there are but still it boils down to Beijing, Shanghai if those who are in the cities.

[00:36:07] So I think that aspiration of going to a bigger city seeing the opportunities thinking that there are bigger opportunities.

[00:36:16] I think that will always be there.

[00:36:17] I think that's not going to go down and that will always be there.

[00:36:22] I think I believe that there is an opportunity to create some local hubs and the cities could stand for something like as I mentioned earlier.

[00:36:35] I mean no one has part to go to Nakhpur in fact hold with her because looking to separate from Maharashtra for the longest until I mean after 2014 that moment kind of probably has died its natural death.

[00:36:49] So I mean I'll give you another state example as well.

[00:36:54] So just like Nakhpur has become a educational hub I would imagine even Jouble poor in eastern MP eastern MPs also talk and I'm just giving parallels that can be there.

[00:37:07] The whole country area I mean you see there are tourist flocking, Kerala there are tourists flocking goa there tourists in Mangalore.

[00:37:18] I mean less so but there are still in Surat Kala and not but or even Nakhana.

[00:37:24] But there is no one in Hong Kong the beaches are as pristine the water as good.

[00:37:30] So you don't need to develop it into a city if we just develop a tourism infrastructure around around Hong Kong.

[00:37:38] The biggest migration happens from Hong Kong to Mumbai right because historically that's been the so I think that itself is a big opportunity just in.

[00:37:47] The Hong Kong area. I think so that is there and Nakhic already has its historical some industries and I think some of the other things which we haven't.

[00:38:02] But it's the whole religious corridor. I mean just like in UP now you have I would have banana.

[00:38:09] What Varanasi doesn't have might have BHU and all but what is the biggest revenue source or biggest thing?

[00:38:16] Now people come into visit the temple that's the this Nakhic has the Ambhake Ashwar Shirdi in and around.

[00:38:24] I think the religious corridor we need to really and if you see in the last 10 years definitely the religious inclination belief.

[00:38:34] It Hinduism or following that has gone up significantly. This is a big opportunity and I think.

[00:38:41] Lord Ram also it's believed to have passed through Nakhic right Ashish. I mean if I am not speaking.

[00:38:47] Yeah so if it's a corridor it's a very important part of that part can be a religious hub.

[00:38:54] So I think those are micro things which can be looked at everything can't rely around services because see it's tough.

[00:39:03] To more or if you want to develop a IT services hub in Arangabad or Kolhapur or the Samwajya Nagar and Kolhapur.

[00:39:14] Well that happened it's difficult because the supporting ecosystem I've put a founded difficult imagine Samwajya Nagar and Kolhapur.

[00:39:23] So you have to stand for what that area already has.

[00:39:28] So conquerors tourism, Nashik and Nathana Maharashtra that part has a religious forever and already existing temples use that.

[00:39:38] So I think this is how to kind of even Kolhapur solarp to the support that it's again very big on Ambhabai and to the Pura Bhavani.

[00:39:47] So I think this is the existing assets which need to be utilized much better with better supporting infrastructure accommodation hospitality infrastructure.

[00:40:01] I think that's the direction I would kind of think rather than doing everything like industry hunt every way services can't be everywhere.

[00:40:14] I mean Ashish is from India for the longest they've been trying to develop IT services there are bits and pieces but not big enough but probably in the run now gets a big footfall because of there is Mahaka,

[00:40:28] like from there and then you go down to home car issuara and all. So you have to play to your strengths that's how I would look at it. Maybe Ashish can add a few things to this.

[00:40:41] Right yes Ashish.

[00:40:43] You know absolutely and in fact that's as Maharashtra has very well endowed because each region has its own different characteristics right so if you look at the perfectly also.

[00:40:54] I mean so with a little bit is more suited for kind of industrial activity not far but always more you know agriculture oriented all though there are water issues there but I'm still agricultural boss fight strong.

[00:41:06] Ashish Maharashtra has been like the combination of everything and then conquer this pass more about tourism right so there's there is this very clear kind of strength areas which have to be leveraged.

[00:41:19] There is also you know again I mean going back perhaps each region will need its own developmental strategy.

[00:41:29] But which is which is you know you could have development plans specific to those regions. Again to connectivity for example you know if you were to go from naku to kola but there was hardly any connectivity on the eastern side of the state.

[00:41:44] You don't still have to go go ahead for ne or you know you know chatabati shamazamaj in a direct segment. It was hardly any connectivity on the eastern side that's changing as well.

[00:41:54] There are new roads which are being built which are purely in the eastern region which do not touch the Mumbai Pune region at all.

[00:42:01] So I think that will also help because on that side you know access to haterbath access to naku access even to the coastal states of what is in and under it that was not very strong for for for the eastern part which is kind of land log by itself.

[00:42:15] I mean if you see that extreme eastern part of malastra distanced to Mumbai and distanced to the eastern coast may not be too different actually.

[00:42:23] Right in the lumps of the so such that one part has not been unlocked at all which is now changing.

[00:42:29] So think some of that these regional plans need to be built over time and perhaps learn from some of some of the other states are done on in terms of these corridors or very localized aspects of development.

[00:42:45] Right. Thank you so much and if you have any closing thoughts we can conclude that and then perhaps wrap up this conversation.

[00:42:53] Yeah, sure sure. No, so I would just say that you know in the larger context.

[00:42:59] Marash has to be the first state to hit the one trillion GDP mark right. I mean we already had 500 billion or.

[00:43:06] You know country as a message earlier the country needs to have big ambition. In fact when PM had talked about.

[00:43:13] Five trillion Indian economy right there was a lot of skepticism saying and people people get into like petty math.

[00:43:18] Same in a 20 25 many over 20 28 more or 20 32 more. See it doesn't matter right I mean one to your zero there doesn't really matter.

[00:43:26] The point is you need to start thinking like an economy which is a height in an economy and that means a lot different a lot of differences for everyone in the government that even in the industry as a young student as a young young in there.

[00:43:39] I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, economy which is 2 trillion versus the economy which is height in it is very difficult to very very different right.

[00:43:45] It gives you new opportunities it gives you taxes to explore venues which perhaps you know your parents generation may not be not have been able to do so even if they had ambition because they wouldn't have been in it resources or no proper channel to kind of.

[00:44:01] Explore those opportunities so it's a mindset right so whether you get to 80 or 10 30 that that's not the question the point is that the one trillion.

[00:44:11] ambition basically opens your eyes and your minds to new possibilities what can be done in your local setting.

[00:44:19] In that sense I would say that I mean even if you take like a doubling rate of of 7 years at typically a many know like we can't be a 1 trillion economy by 30 30 30 30 30 from 500 billion so that's fine, you know the ambition has to be there several states and US.

[00:44:38] Or you know by themselves could you bigger economies and the Indian economy in total right I mean California could be a bigger economy than so many global economies.

[00:44:49] So things still it's a thing like that and it's not just my last step but also all the other industrial states because that contributes not to the national number.

[00:44:57] But my last certainly has the potential and most likely the probability of hitting that that mark first up given where it is.

[00:45:06] And if there is a continuity in terms of policy in terms of the focus for infrastructure at such I mean I'm pretty sure that.

[00:45:16] Barashit will continue to remain very relevant in terms of the driver or the growth engine of the Indian economy and can also become the half for the new industries which will propel.

[00:45:28] You know the next decade in the couple of decades after that. Right. Thank you so much gentleman this has been a very enlightening conversation.

[00:45:38] Very interesting quite detailed and I think we've been able to like our large part of you know what.

[00:45:45] Maharashtra, growth story has been and what will be.

[00:45:50] Again it's a pleasure talking to you thank you for taking out your time and viewers please do subscribe to Barathevar and stay tuned for more.

[00:45:58] Thank you.

[00:46:00] Yeah.